NICHE ZERO: ONE YEAR IN REVIEW
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- Опубликовано: 6 окт 2024
- With the obsession over every grinder coming out needing to be a "Niche Killer," with the obvious implication that the Niche is some sort of "apex" machine, I felt the need to finally break my silence. I have been hesitant to make and post this video due to the potential backlash, but these are my unadulterated, unfiltered thoughts. I hope you enjoy the transparency!
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Thanks for watching! I am trying my hardest to keep up with comments. Really ecstatic about the response! More dislikes than I hoped for haha! but, that was expected. Check out my IG and Patreon for more! Cheers
Dont worry about it! It was a fair and honest review. I do think that you did bring up some of the disdvantages that a lot of reviewers might have overlooked and that's what I like about your reviews.
Look like and sounds like someone totally different #chill Hedrick 😂
I literally just took delivery of a Niche three days ago and I am super grateful for this video! Thanks for the excellent retrospective. I am enjoying it, but have a similar taste preference to you. I have the Option-O Lagom P64 on pre-order and will have to wait a few months for it. Looking forward to getting familiar with the Niche and then contrasting it to the P64. Will be freezing some of the coffees I like the next few months to compare. I have the Unimodal burrset on order for mine and think a comparison of the P64's different burrset options to the Niche would be particularly interesting from you!
The dislikes are nonsense. You gave an honest review, which is rare on the topic as far as I can tell. Some people have an intuitive interest in wanting to avoid criticism of something they spend so much money on.
Funnily enough, after making this comment RUclips recommended videos from Brian Quan's channel to me. He covers the contrasts of 64mm flat SSP burrset setups to the Niche pretty well.
"Don't really care, gonna speak my mind" exactly the right mindset for a YT content creator; find and stick to your voice! also I doubt current/potential niche owners will be too annoyed by this and in fact will find some value from your insights. great vid as usual.
thank you! It has been a surprisingly pleasant reaction thus far.
An honest evaluation built by trust will always bring subscribers.
I'm about 6 months in with my Niche and absolutely love it. I watched some of your reviews on other grinders before making my decision. It was a significant step up from what I was previously working with. Like others I think the flavour profile I get with this suits my taste. The wider particle distribution size probably explains why this has been a pleasure to dial in every time I switch beans. I've used a bunch of different grinders and prefer the workflow with the Niche. It is also the quietest (or least noisy/obnoxious frequencies to deal with first thing in the morning) I've used.
We've got a Mazzer Mini + Rocket at work and find dialing in to be a bit trickier than my Niche + not so expensive home machine. The Mazzer is more sensitive with smaller increments.
One of my favourite local roasters uses Mahlkönigs and I definitely notice a difference using the same beans. I can get similar results on my Niche though. When using some of their single origin beans that I've tasted in store, I do notice the clarity and strength of some of the flavours isn't quite same. Again, your explanation of distribution likely explains that.
It isn't something I have considered before, but can the burrs in this be changed with something else to give a narrower distribution?
I think the Niche really hits the sweet spot for me. I worry if I get more precision tools I'll become even more of a coffee snob 😅
I really enjoyed hearing your thoughts on the Niche and think you're on point. Thanks Lance!
I’ve had mine for over a year. I’m no expert, just an interested home user who likes lighter roast single-origin coffee, espresso and pourover, mainly. I’m happy with the appearance - not too bothered, tbh. Workflow isn’t important to me, but it is nice. I agree about retention, and also use a bellows. Static was a minor problem, and I have never liked the idea of spraying water onto burrs. The solution I found was just to wait a minute, and it goes away. Overall I agree, but it meets my needs well, so I’ve no regrets. Thanks for your interesting review.
I was looking at a few griners before I ordered mine, I got mine on 11th May and I really do love the work flow process. I know not everyone has the same view as I do but I really do think that it is one of the best grinders on the market
That's awesome! Glad you are happy with it!
I got mine on May 11th as well. I've been making about 10 shots a day since then, so this video answered a lot of questions I had about what I was experiencing with the niche. What grinder would you recommend I move to after the niche?
@@AediusOmega before I settled on the niche 2 others I was looking at were the DF64 (though to make it amazing you will need to spend quite a bit of extra money to make it better) and the Mahlkonig X54. I had thought about going a bit higher end with a specialita but decided against it as I have heard a lot of bad things regarding retention
Thank you for a very thoughtful, fair and well articulated review video of the Niche. I have been using mine for about 5 months and I really do enjoy using it. Agree with what you said, I prefer medium to slightly darker roast, fuller body, dislike acidity, prefer chocolatey, caramel profile over fruity/bright flavour profile in my coffee. Niche fits my taste preference for espresso perfectly. Yes, I can see other totally disliking this grinder because they prefer different flavours and that's OK. There is room for everybody in the wide world of coffee weirdness. Ps, I have the black version, with its wood accents and shiny black body, it matches my matte black Flair 58x perfectly on my kitchen table. Lol.
this is a perfect comment! And reflects EXACTLY what I am trying to convey here! I just wanted to ensure there is a balanced review out there. So many seem to treat the niche like an end-all-be-all grinder that can do any roast level, which is just can't. It has its strengths and it sounds like its strenghts align perfectly with your preferences, which is fantastic! But there are hordes of light roast lovers buying these based off the skewed reviews, so I just felt the need to speak up a bit, though with loads of nuance lol. Thanks for the comment!
May I ask what grind settings, after calibration, you are typically using for a medium to dark roast?
Are you able to achieve roughly 1:2.5 in 25sec at 9bar?
Totally agree with your assessments. One thing I’ve found useful to mitigate the fines problem with filter coffee is to rig up a gradual feed contraption to really slow down how many beans feed into the burrs beyond the little plate restrictor they have. (I used a V60 cone with a dowel rod strapped to the handle to hold down the button with the lid open) It improved the clarity immensely and objectively reduced stalling out and the overall draw down time on my brews. But I agree, definitely a Swiss Army knife grinder. Does a lot of things well, but you can get better in a specific area if you go elsewhere.
Gradual feed can arguably help, but also, it could keep the beans in the burrs a bit longer since there isn't consistent weight pushing them through. So, they could crush longer than usual. But, I love all types of mods. This sounds fun!
Although I love my Niche I can understand why someone would prefer a flat burr grinder for some of the reason you presented. I however, prefer the full body I get from the Niche over for example my DF64 that has upgraded SSP High Uniformity espresso burrs. I find I get more body from the Niche than my DF64. I mainly drink medium coffee. On occasion I may drink a liter coffee but it tends to be the exception not the norm. I drink mainly espresso. I might have a pour over every once in a while but 95% of my coffee is espresso ( Cuban style coffee) and sometimes I will make a latte or capuchino .
I intend to keep both my Niche and my DF64 . Eventually if I upgrade one of the grinder it will be the DF64 not my Niche. If I had to keep only one of them it would be the Niche.
I have added every modification to improve the DF64 performance and work flow. The DF64 is very frustrating unless you are willing to add the modification. The Niche as you indicate has a fantastic workflow out of the box. I can’t say that about the DF64.
I enjoy all your videos and this one is no exception. I could tell you were trying not to offend the “Niche” fans which I am one of them. But I don’t disagree with your review at all . The espresso I drink is that medium coffee full body not liter coffee.
Enjoy Porto Portugal! It’s a beautiful historic city !
I am looking forward to your future RUclips videos .
Thanks again!
I love this comment! So fair. And I agree with your points from your perspective! Thank you so much for watching and leaving this comment. I hope more see it!
Hi Eduardo, when you do use your DF64 how hard is it to dial in for espresso? I’ve been using a Eureka Silenzio for the past 6 months but just the other day got a Niche delivered. So far I’m already liking the Niche better and even for light roasts and dialing in is far easier than the Silenzio. I ordered a DF64 to try as well to compare and contrast with the Niche.
@@tomy2988 I don’t have problems dialing in for espresso with the DF64. I upgraded the burrs to the SSP
High uniformity espresso burrs because I mainly drink espresso. I have heard that the SSP MP burrs although clearly better for filter coffee it’s harder to dial in for espresso than the SSP High Uniformity espresso burrs. The SSP High Uniformity espresso burrs make the DF64 give you more fuller body but less clarity than the SSP MP burrs. Well that’s my understanding. I have never used the SSP MP burrs on my DF64 but that’s what I have read from several reviewers.
The DF64 can be frustrating out of the box. You will definitely need to at a minimum change the silicone membrane declumper. The DF64 tends to accumulate coffee in the silicone membrane. I have 3d printed every modification available for the DF64 to make the work flow acceptable. With all the modifications the DF64 is a good grinder for the price point.
Maybe the SSP MP burrs on the DF64 is better to complement the Niche instead of upgrading it with the SSP high uniformity espresso burrs as I did since they will give you more clarity than the SSP high uniformity espresso burrs but not as much body as the Niche. If you plan to keep the Niche in addition to the DF64 maybe the SSP burrs to upgrade it with might be better the MP burrs if you want to get more clarity ( sacrifice fuller body of the SSP HU espresso burrs) but I understand that it might be harder to dial in for espresso.
@@EdGodoyPlana I see, thanks for the reply!
@@tomy2988 The DF64, even without any mods is super easy to dial in. The dial is stiff, so it will not budge once you set it, and you can move it in super fine increments. I have the stock burrs and I love the thing. I will eventually change the declumper (though with a few good puffs it seems to work fine), raise the dose cup (the static is real, particularly because I use a light roast) and add a dial. I find so far none of these are absolutely necessary, they will just make things nicer. I will probably try SSP HU at some point, but love what I'm getting now. Be great to hear your comparisons when you get it.
Just when my heart was broken from hearing you’re moving across the world (harder for us to be friends) you go and totally redeem yourself!!!!
Hahaha! I had to read that in Lloyd's voice. Fantastic
@@LanceHedrick Harry's voice ;)
But seriously, as someone who bought the niche as a first grinder when getting into making espresso at home, I am super grateful for the large sweet spot. Can’t imagine how many sink shots I would have had without its forgiving distribution.
@@LanceHedrick I love your videos, and I’ve tried a ton of the products you’ve reviewed (I own a coffee shop as well). I was curious if you’ve considered adding chapters in your videos? That would help a lot! Great content as always, keep it up, here, or any other place you live! Don’t let others discourage you with mean comments (I remember one of your videos that me sad to hear). You’re the GOAT barista and all things coffee!
@@benjaminbutton3476 Many probably. I started out with a tighter distribution flat burr and it certainly took a while to get a hang of it. Even now some coffees I dial back and forth the entire 1 kg bag looking for that perfect balance between all the notes. They're good shots but some coffees after drinking them for a month I suddenly realise that making it go 2 s longer totally changes it.
I don't own a Niche Zero and don't see one in my future. However, I appreciate all your 'grinder' (and other product) videos because of the way you are able to provide an understanding of matching a product to a
I have a niche as my daily driver and I really like it. I agree with everything you said. I never taste the notes on the bag espresso or pour over. Pourovers are okay but not amazing. But it's kind of an economic decision.... and it's just nice to use. Not messy, not plasticky, just pleasant. I got the grinder to help me have great coffee, and it does that. I don't care if I don't taste the bag. I think most people are fooling themselves with the tasting notes to an extent. And yes there is plenty of acidity in the cup if you want it, but it is not distinct.
Love it. Contentment in its finest form right here! Thanks for sharing.
100% agree with you! It’s extremely pleasant and I know what I’m gonna get and it just…. Works.
Love your phrase "taste the bag". I too am happy that I’m making tasty, enjoyable coffee, but it is uncommon for me to pick out the flavour notes described. Now and then, sure, and maybe the headlines of fruity/citrus compared to chocolate/plum. Thanks for a great comment!
Lance, *NEVER* stop speaking your mind!
Thank you for this review. 🙏🏻
Thank you so much!
Dude! Lance you amaze me! I have a niche. I drink pretty dark roast, the lighter roasts usually tear my stomach up, so this grinder seems fine. Bla bla. The reason you amaze me? You took the time to do the review, you took care not to offend or freak people out….just the facts…..but more than that…..I just scrolled the comments and you are taking the time to reply to ALL of them and help folks even further! You are a true science nerd, obviously love the challenge of trying to make great coffee, and help all of us and share your passion to keep us stoked! My son and I love to watch your vids. Thanks so much for giving all you do!
I really love this comment. I read it, zoned out from my wife for a second, and had to read it to her because she was bothered I got distracted haha! Comments like these really confirm my decision to continue pumping these out. Thank you for supporting the channel!
These are the gem reviews that I always hope for. I know it is tough to be fair/honest without fear of alienating or offending. But it lends credibility and gains trust in all your other reviews. I have been in the home espresso game for over 20 years. I bought my Monolith Flat before this grinder came out. I struggled to pay the price it cost, and I would have definitely gone with the Niche if it was available at the time. Again, my burrs are stock flat burrs, but I can adjust my RPM. What speed do you think is a good place for me to start with my Monolith Flat?
Thank you so much! And I recommend starting around 350 RPM! I really love lower RPMs, for sure.
talk about a difference in grinder quality, omg. They're not even close to the same
@@Cenot4ph Well, I am not as current in this hobby as I used to be. I was more current when Monolith came out with their first single dose grinder (conical). It felt like a game changer in flow and build quality. I had a used K30, but was not single dosing as it did not do that very well. Then, finally Monolith came out with a Flat burr version and I splurged. My espresso machine I totally picked up barely used for a song (GS3), and so I felt OK with blowing money on my MonoFlat. I am not sure how much exactly later the Niche came out, but I believe it was the first true commercial single dosing grinder on the market and it was considerably less expensive. It was in high demand from the beginning for that reason. There is no doubt it fit my budget better, but I did not look back (until now). Ultimately used by James Hoffman on his new YT channel, that is quite the endorsement I would say. James critique of his K30 on hie Jimseven blog made me ultimately entertain a new grinder. Am I happy with my MonoFlat? Very!! Single dosing is a Godsend. It has been flawless and upped my game. I have been running the RPM closer to 500, which was a suggestion on the HB forum when I bought it. I am exited to see if a lower RPM will be noticeable in my cup.
Lance, I think the issue with the coffee flavor profile you enjoy is that one needs a flat burr grinder to produce that consistently. But many of us us don’t want the angst of dealing with burr alignment. I’ve watched the process, and it does NOT look like a whole lot of fun.
So… is there another conical burr espresso oriented grinder under 1k you can fully recommend?
I'm a coffee beginner but your explanation makes sense and syncs with my experiences. I got my first machine about 18 months ago and went with a Comandante hand grinder at first, until I saved a little more money and did some more research. Then just over a year ago got my Niche. I think it's beautiful. It's well made, easy to clean. So nice to use. Easy to adjust and dial in. I've never had a shot ground by my Niche that I've enjoyed as much as some of the Comandante shots. I haven't had much joy for my filter coffee either. I exclusively use my Comandante for my pour overs and do use the Niche for espresso and I enjoy that still. Just without the highs I've had before. I can't match what I get from a great coffee shop or even what I produced myself in the past by hand.
This is a great comment and completely aligns with many people's experience. Thanks for sharing!
Would say my experience is the same. My handgrinder (chestnut X) makes comparable or even better shots of espresso and better pour over.
I'm so appreciative of this review. I do believe as tempting and trendy the Niche Zero is, I simply couldn't fathom buying it. Maybe that will change. There are so many options which are almost better for the money, but don't have the hype. I instead purchased a Heycafe H1, a machine no one wants, so bought it at wholesale, simply because it doesn't have timed dosing, but has the best digital grind adjustment I ever used. Also, it's awesome for single dosing too, as well as manual dosing with a hopper. I use it with my Breville dual boiler at work and it produces stellar results. A shame other companies don't get the recognition they deserve. Thank you for your videos, Lance, and keep it up.
I need to get one of those! I love ugly ducklings
Great review! I’m a big fan of the niche, above all, for the workflow. I think I’d need to taste a Niche vs. flat-burr grinder coffee side by side to see how big the difference the experience is for me.
Btw, I don’t play golf but I think the analogy was helpful!
The problem with filter coffee and the Niche is that the recommended grind for filter coffee is way too fine. My solution (it works very well): Turn the grind towards coarse well beyond the specified range (you can just keep turning it ...) counterclockwise until the grind is at about 11 o'clock. At this grind, my filter coffee tastes very good and the water runs through my V60 in less than 3 minutes.
This is enough! This man deserves a bigger Patreon base. p.s. I already did it 10 min ago ;) The only way to ensure honest reviews. Just keep doing what you're doing dude!
I got it two years ago too. I think at the time it was very hard to get and it was pretty affordable for what it was. Super nice workflow. I just cup my palm over the top to act like bellows. Works well. The burs, for the price, in this size of a machine, was amazing. It was good for most styles of coffee. But, now we have maybe better flat burr options maybe designed more for espresso, that are around the same price or cheaper. At the time it was also recommended by my Decent espresso community. Going from my breville grinder to this is a huge jump but I bet their is more for espresso. Love the cavity back analogy. I just started playing golf too!
I own a Niche, and I love it, but it's basically my first really good grinder. The workflow as you say is excellent. I definitely see how the wider particle distribution can be a huge plus for getting consistently decent shots, but limits the upper potential. Even using this as my daily driver, I definitely learned a lot from this and thank you so much for your observations!
I've recently ordered a niche but haven't received it yet. I used a cheap cuisinart burr mill grinder for most of the past 18 months and enjoyed the coffee out of it with my chemex and more recently a moccamaster. I bought a J-max hand grinder to start my espresso setup and in the mean time used it for pour over. Honestly, the coffee tasted too clean, I don't know if that is what clarity is describing but the flavor was very simple/flat. I know my cuisinart produces an absolute boat load of fines as they're plastered to the lid after I run even small amounts of coffee through it, but I've always just mixed them back in with a small whisk before brewing.
So, what you're describing to me, sounds like I will enjoy the coffee I get from the Niche. I primarily bought the Niche for the workflow and the less ear piercing noise it makes when running.
I love this thank you. I love my Niche (about a year old) - truthfully for all the reasons you enumerated. Darker, easier, chocolatier(?). To be fair- I have been struggling to clearly experience many of the "notes" I so often hear described. No I know why. I got a Commandante (while waiting for the NZ to arrive) and, based on your super clear articulation of RPM issues, I'll have to bust it out. Again many thanks for the self-aware way in which you present all this stuff!
Glad you mentioned RPM in conical grinders. I partially had a suspicion my commondante is making those amazing shots due to slower grind speed. Great video
First: great, nuanced review.
Second: I like the look you’re sporting here.
haha! Thank you! Sincerely. For whatever reason (cough cough trolls), it was actually a bit nerve wracking coming on here with a different look. so thanks!
@@LanceHedrick Nice to see you doing collabs with your hipster twin! ;-)
I'm just starting out on this coffee journey. After a few french press costa rica on a local coffee bar I bought some for home and now looking into getting a grinder.
I almost know 0 about grinding but it stuck with me that conical burrs should be used in low rpm like manual ones.
I love that you spoke about this and made me not rush into buying a +500 pounds grinder.
This comment is for you to be brave and do this again. We need reviewers like you that tell the whole story.
I've never watched a review on anything where you can literally see, feel and hear the reviewer ever so gently walking on egg shells over a product review. It was like watching the pool boy gently tell his Chicago mob boss that he makes bad business decisions. BTW, I own a Niche and I absolutely agree with this review and his opinion. That's why I'm getting a Fellow Shimmy to try and get the mud out of my coffee.
That’s for filter coffee, right?.
Afraid of loosing sponsors. It happens to all the reviewers that get a large audience.
Thanks for your honest review which I can confirm in many perspectives. As a owner of an Niche Zero, Comandante C40, Sette 270 and an Specialita I have to say, the Niche is fantastic for Dark Roast Coffee. It has a wide range of good shot results (regarding grind settings and machine output) and an easy setting. On the downside it is nowhere near the C40 even at classical filter roasts and with light roast espresso it is even outperformed by the Specialita.
Still though I do love the grinder for what it is and do prefer it over the others for dark roast espresso (which is my favorite).
One further downside: with RDT the beans tend to stick on the funnel which can be rather annoying.
All the best from Bavaria
Where do you rank the Sette in this group?
@@Yirgamalabar according to taste most close to the Niche (a bit less balanced). The Sette is brutally fast (about 6secs for 17grams), horribly loud and rather cheaply made compared to the rest. The grounds is the least clumpy and least static load / most fluffy from all. Highly regret, that there is no premium version with metal housing, quiet and relieable gearbox. My Opinion.
Same 4 grinders mate that I have 😮
Ja Servus, Grüße zurück aus Bayern! 😄 das Ganze liest sich so als ob du dich sehr gut auskennst. Ich bin absoluter Anfänger und habe mir gerade meine erste Siebträgermaschine bestellt (Gaggia Classic Pro). Bis jetzt habe ich lediglich Erfahrung mit V60 und nutze dafür eine C40. Könntest du mir evtl eine elektrische Mühle empfehlen? Ich schwanke zwischen der Niche, Mahlkönig X54, Eureka Specialita und der neuen Eureka single dose..
@@drsteee das kommt stark auf die Anforderungen an. Wie oft sollen die Bohnen gewechselt werden? Wie viele Sorten sind parallel offen? Wie viele Tassen am Tag? Welche Röstungen (hell - medium - dunkel)? Uvm...
Your latest couple of videos have definitely convinced me to go for the DF64 over the Niche Zero. As much as I love pulling espresso, I just can't give up drip coffee, and my tastes seem to align with yours. I appreciate how honest and in-depth your assessments are, it makes it much more relatable even though I'm obviously not tasting the same coffee that you are. Thanks, Lance!
Thank you so much! I really appreciate this! I try my hardest to present honest videos without bashing. My intent is to inform, but to be honest of my own bias. Thanks for watching!
Starting out on my espresso journey, I kicked things off with a Niche Zero and a Bambino Plus. Honestly, I still think this combo is one of the best setups for beginners. The workflow is super easy, the grinder is really forgiving, and it’s a breeze to dial in, delivering a solid mouthfeel thanks to those conical burrs. The only downside? It’s really only great with medium-dark to dark beans. If you’re working with a medium roast, you’ll need to pull a little trick with the steam to bump up the brewing temperature.
When you start getting bored or notice all the beans are tasting kinda the same, that’s your cue to upgrade. That’s when you dive into learning about clarity and light roasts. These days, I’m rocking an EG-1 and a Flair 58. I tried out the Timemore 064 with SSP 64mm burrs, but it didn’t hit the spot for me. Don’t get me wrong-I’m loving the light to medium roasts with the EG-1, but I still miss the punchy medium-dark to dark roasts I got from the Niche Zero and Bambino Plus. Those 54mm portafilters with IMS baskets really amp up the body, so I decided to keep them around for my darker roasts instead of selling them off.
Lance, hands down: This is how a review is done! Thank you for telling how you see it. You earned my subscription.
I think I agree with this. I do like my Niche. It's simple to use and maintain, but it probably is an 85-90% solution. Simple to dial in, stepless adjustment that is easy to set, allows a very efficient workflow, more than adequate for my espresso and V60 pour overs, but not the absolute best at any one thing. I think we all know that if you want to do espresso, cold brews, V60's, etc. and want them all to be perfect, you're going to need more than one grinder. Making that decision brings us back to a discussion of diminishing returns. I could buy a Weber Key and a Mahlkonig E65 GBW, and have better grinders, but I'd also have $5000 in the game. I paid right about $800 for my Niche and I've got that 85-90% solution. Maybe one day, I'll make the decision to buy different grinders, but for now I'm satisfied with my Niche.
I have much the same feeling. In fact, I'm thinking of buying a 2nd grinder. But I can't make up my mind. I know that to complete the Niche (which I've had for over 4 years) I'll get a mill with flat burrs (and with a hopper, handy when there are lots of people at home). But when it comes to cup quality: 55mm (ex: specialità), 65mm (ex: Turbo or XL) or 75mm (Atom)? I'm talking about Eureka here (I started out with a Mignon dci, which leaves me with fond memories), but I'm open to other brands. The difference in diameter affects the price, that's for sure, but does it increase the quality of the coffee in the cup in the same proportion? Specialists don't really say, often giving the runaround (saying: it's stiffer, it's more regular, the roast is better, although from a certain size upwards this seems to change). For me, the only thing I'd like to know is the result in a cup.
Wow! I have had the Niche for about 9 months. I totally agree with your thoughts: great build, commercial burrs, NOT zero retention , and produces heavy body, silky mouthfeel and chocolatey, caramelly shots with some bitterness. Sucks for pour over and filter, and pretty bad for press pot. I like the workflow, but found the Baratza Sette W with the built in scales even better - insert portafilter - press play - done. It suits my preference for body and chocolatey profiles - I’m a David Schomer Espresso Vivace fan, but I am curious and may seek out a flat burr option, though honestly I’m not sure I love the thought of hibiscus, cherries and lemon in my espresso 🤣. Thanks for telling it like it is. You do fantastic work. I love it. Good luck in Portugal!
Schomer loves the Niche. He actually modded them for cafe use haha! I'm not sure why he didnt just buy actual Konys, but he does what he wants haha! And flat burrs are fun! Give them a go!
You can hack the Niche so it grinds slower. Just get a NON-LED light dimmer that can handle the wattage of the Niche and it will work well. Then with great optimism, hope and skill, cut the Niche power cord roughly two thirds of the cord towards the machine and wire in the two wires from the machine and the two wires from the power cord and voila, a variable speed Niche Zero grinder.
Appreciate this POV! I love the design. And the easy work flow is a very appealing aspect. I would like to suggest that 3rd wave coffee experts (and this is very understandable), because of how immersed in the specialty world they tend to be, perhaps at times don't appreciate just how wide a difference there is in the development of their palate compared to the average coffee drinker (even, coffee lover). I suspect that the proportion of people who actually can taste coffee nuances even approaching what the pros taste is small. So, this would mean that for someone for whom the Niche is their first serious electric grinder, it very likely is going to give them a big jump up in their enjoyment of coffee. It takes considerable time and effort to really hone in one's palate for coffee. Just 2 cents from a non-pro, home enthusiast.
Beautifully put
Finally a product review that's actually a review, and not a 10 minute infomercial.
I was so looking forward to this. Great content as always, Lance!
thanks for watching and the constant support!
Funny enough i just rewatched your Baratza Sette 270 vs Niche Video from a year ago. Because I found a used Sette 270 online. Should be here any day now.
Your recent comments about the Niche have opened my eyes to new possibilities. I've been enjoying the Niche for almost 2 years and it was my first grinder so I feel a bit spoiled. I've really enjoyed the espresso I get from it but I've always thought that I had trouble finding the tasting notes described on specialty coffee packaging and the conical burr set might be why. Very interested in trying a flat burr grinder now.
I like complexity, but dislike tartness. I like pretty strong milk drinks (cappuccino, cortado) and tend to be sensitive to nuance-it still comes through to me even with milk, even a touch of sugar (I know I lost some of you right there). I’m not too into dark roasts, but a *nutty*, caramel, roast with other interesting notes is great to me (Sumatran, Indian, etc coffees are perfect for this). All of this is to say-this grinder has been great for my profile. I get why people like light roasts and might prefer otherwise, but for complex medium roasts lovers this grinder is excellent.
Hey Lance!
Thanks so much for making this video.
I’m a niche zero owner and I appreciate all of your feedback and comments here.
I have to agree about filter coffee-I’ve been realizing I enjoy the filter coffee
Less and less in the niche.
I enjoy the medium/medium dark espresso shots I get. For all the reasons you’ve listed.
My lighter roasted shots aren’t bad by any stretch but I can tell they are only most of the way there. I’m also brewing manually so that complicated things as well.
I know that this is a HUGE question-but what would be a good flat burr grinder you’d recommend for me to get in a similar price range as the niche for both filter and espresso? Would it be the DF 64?
Thanks for making this video-let be known in a niche owner and I’m not mad 😉
This 👆 Brian Quan recommends DF64 w the Niche
Yes- I would likely go for DF64 because of the potential with burr variations. But, if you are someone that wants customer service, the Vario with steel burrs is also quite nice. Just a bit finnicky with the lever dial in arms.
How about the Eureka Mignon. It's finicky to switch between filter and espresso, but pulls amazing shots.
@@LanceHedrick would the vario with steel burrs be good for both espresso and pour over?
I think so! I have a whole video on it.
As always I appreciate your honesty. The Niche has been intriguing to me since it hit the market but my curiosity hasn’t coerced a purchase. Since I added bellows to my Sette 270 I haven’t considered another grinder. Keep up the great content.
I replaced my Sette 270 (replaced the gear drive once and got many many years, but now it is sparkling and tripping breakers just to old). The 270 is so fast, and Sette has the Best customer service. My wife gifted me the Niche after a few sparky scares from the 270 and I have to say I love it. Work flow is so awesome I may be just fine with it. I buy one local fresh coffee and once I am dialed in I just rince and repeat shots. The super quiet grind is so much better for when people are sleeping for my first shot of the morning. I used to interrupt my wife's work calls if I did a grind on the 270 on the other floor of our house. As an engineer I always used to fixate on specs, but the Niche is so pleasant to use it just won me over.
The cool thing about the Sette 270 was that when tuned in I got away with out using a scale and just using a timer. Great for my wife who would refuse to weigh anything for an early morning coffee if she was up before me.
Thank you so much for this Lance. I just started my espresso journey with the flair pro 2 and j-max grinder. I would like to upgrade to breville duel boiler in the future and have been going back and forth on which grinder to get. I almost brought the niche think it would be good for both esspresso and pour over. This has definitely been very helpful in deciding which way to go. I have a few questions for you. Is there a grinder that is good for both pour over and esspresso? Second do you have a recommendation for a first esspresso grinder under 1000 for a beginner? Thanks man love the channel keep up the good work.
I like the design of niche grinder, because it looks very old school and reminds me iconic designs like vespa motorcycle, wolkswagen beetle, old black "mickey mouse" rotary phone etc. It is simply nice, when compared to other grinders.
Great video, Lance! It’s slowly coming together for me. I’ve had a Silvia since 2009 and a big Fiorenzato Evo64 with huge grounds retention since 2013, and just a couple of months ago I “upgraded” to the Niche. Very happy with the workflow, but I can taste a drop in what I would call clarity. I’m not changing now, but in some ways I regret not going for the (cheaper) DF64 with its flat burrs or something higher. My Fiorenzato has 3 massive springs holding the upper burr assembly and the Niche has only 2 tiny delicate ones. I wonder if that contributes to particle size spread? Especially only 2?!? Would there be wobble induced by that? Just a thought. Hey, I’m a photographer! I use tripods for stability, not bipods 😂🤣😂
So I was really lucky to find a second hand Ceado E5P on eBay for $350. I have since modded it to the single dose spec of the E5SD. I didn't go for the Niche because I felt it limited my choice. What you see is what you get with the Niche whereas with the right flat burr grinder you can entertain yourself with multiple burr choices. Specialty coffee is an obsession/hobby and I enjoy modding and being involved in what my grinders can do.
Absolutely! I align 100% with your reasoning.
I appreciate the sentiments about the Niche Zero as I feel about the same with it. I owned a Niche Zero for a little over 1 year and after my Weber KEY arrived, I felt like the flavor notes on the roasters' bags finally stood out and made some sense. Would love some insight into the Weber KEY if that's on your radar as I know you mentioned the lower RPM range it has to offer with its large conical burrs.
Weber key is more than double the price of Zero
YES!!! The workflow of this grinder is second to none, totally agree with that. Also agree it isn’t zero retention, but pretty good. Great review.
0.3g retention isn't really going to affect anything in my opinion also I'm not sure it's possible to have actually 0.0 retention consistently. Even my monolith flat has some retention.
I'd love to see recommendation for filter/pour over coffee in the Fellow Ode range (300$ - 600$), I've seen your Midrange Showdown but wondered about Pour Over and single serving if there's anything better, by how much.
I think given his recent ode review, the recommendation for filter in the fellow ode range is... the fellow ode.
Ode, and use the remaining $300 of that budget to buy 2 pairs of after market burrs. I'd recommend SSP Cast and SSP MP
@@LanceHedrick Thanks, interesting that there aren't a lot of options at this price range.. I'm waiting for my Breville Conical Burr Grinder to die to make the switch :)
Could look into the Lagom Mini or the SPTK38
@@LanceHedrick My dream battle video that would be (all 3 in a single video.... haha)!
Thank you very much for doing this video - and I appreciate the balanced tone. Coincidentally, I had exactly the same experience past 2 months. I had a 64mm Mazzer mini until then, and I moved to the Niche, having mostly light roasts around at the moment. Since then I got good shots, but less differences between coffee, nutty notes mostly, and no “sweet spot” when dialing in compared to the Mazzer. It is good over a wide range, but most of the time a bit sour and bitter, with less dramatic changes as you dial in. So past days I have been looking into moving to a Lagom P64 or to a Weber HG-1 (with added motor, a good deal I find), if anyone has advice on those I’m all ears :)
HG-1 might be similar with high body, lower clarity. I'd suggest HG-2, or Weber Key if you wanted to go that route (Supposedly the coating on the burrs seems to make a difference giving higher clarity, but also lower body). BUT for the Price, if you want a high clarity flat burr grinder, the P64 with SSP Unimodal burrs should do the trick, definitely less forgiving and needs to be dialed in, but when you do, the clarity is amazing (also found RPM needs to be higher for espresso, setting 7+, out of 9)..
Every time i see your new hair style, I can't help but think this is Lances evil twin Vance Hedrick.
That said, I upgraded from the built-in grinder on my Breville Barists Pro, and the difference was night and day. I just wish the lid felt as solid as the rest of the machine.
Hance LeDrick
Haha! vance here to turn the world upside down! Glad you enjoy the Niche! Definitely a fun machine!
Hey Lance,
I know you probably have a lot on the go with the move and everything. But I would LOVE to see a shootout or a series from you on grinders.
One thing I appreciate about you is you dont use an item and describe the output then say it's good or bad. You say this is this or that way because of... (ie the bell curve description of the niches distribution.)
With that on mind I would be so excited to see a building series on grinders. Like first an explanation of flat and conical burrs, pros cons and general results from them leading into a couple videos about a few manual grinders then maybe a shootout from some of the most common electric grinders (sette270, niche, ode, maybe the encore) with the idea that you explain what kind of coffee comes from these (for sweetness, for complexity, clarity etc) and what they are good at and not good at (brew method).
Just my 2 cents. Thanks for the awesome content and for making it accessible to the average person.
Joshua Hedrick / Lance Weissman 😅
hahaha! Need to collab...
@@LanceHedrick 😂
Most balanced review on this grinder!! I prefer those creamy, chocolate, toffee espressos than fruitier ones so this grinder will suit my needs perfectly 🥰.
that is great news! So glad you enjoyed it!
I got a Eureka Mignon and a 3D-printed, single-dose hopper off ETSY, and it has performed amazing for half the price of the Niche. I also use an Acaia dosing cup, which looks higher quality than the Niche dosing cup. Like you said, if I want a higher clarity, I'll need to step up to a flat burr grinder, but for now, I'm enjoying the chocolatey notes the conical burrs produce. I can still taste the different notes from single origins, but with flat burrs, they would probably stand out another 15-20%. My preferred taste profile is a chocolatey base with fruit forward top notes like a 33/67 blend of a medium-roasted Guatemalan and a light-roasted natural Ethiopian.
I have a Eureka Specialita and have also found it excellent. You know it is a flat burr grinder right? It’s not conical. Maybe I miss read your comment but thought it odd you say the mignon isn’t flat burr.
I too have owned a Niche for nearly exactly one year, replacing a highly modded Mazzer Mini in my case.
I still love the Niche for the workflow. I don't miss all the blowing and tapping I used to do on the Mazzer. The workflow is also great if you have a slightly less intense coffee-nerd partner who wants to use it. Like you say, it's easy to get a pretty good shot out of it.
100% agree pour over is a disaster. Wouldn't even recommend it for a more forgiving brewer like the Clever. For now, I'm using a Timemore C2 for this. Does a reasonable job at a very low price.
And yes, even for espresso the Niche has its drawbacks. I tend to stick to medium roasts at the lower end of the speciality range. It is great for the my morning flattie, and even the occasional espresso.
The one thing I've had some success with lighter speciality roasts was doing a more "turbo shot" style. Seems to get a little more of that fruitiness out, but still not the clarity of fancier grinders.
In all, I'm happy to stick with it for now, mostly because I love the workflow too much. The only other grinders with comparable workflow seem to be 3-4x the price, which I can't justify.
Anyway, sorry for the long comment! Really appreciate the honest review.
I don't get why wannabe home baristas talk about workflow. You're pulling one or two shots, not a hundred shots in an hour like you would do at a cafe...
@@GGP39 I think good workflow matters at home for different reasons. Or perhaps workflow is the wrong word and "user experience" would capture it better.
The deeper you go down the coffee nerd hole, the more steps you seem to add to making espresso. It's nice to have some equipment that takes steps out.
Very solid and transparent review. It does really well with medium/fc roasts ime with ristretto style espressos. Punches through short milk drinks well, but clearly not great in pour over. Having had mine for about a year and a half, I'm selling mine as I move more towards pour over coffee. Cheers.
For sure! Ristretto and pungent shots it does well because you arent looking for clarity but for strength. Thanks for commenting!
I've used the niche for a few years now for both filter and espresso and I have to say I agree with almost everything you said. I don't think this grinder is nearly as bad for filter as most people say. That being said however I do occasionally run into a coffee, usually a natural coffee from somewhere in africa with a light roast, that gives me a real hard time on filter. Floral notes can be very difficult to let shine through also.
With those downsides though, as you said, the workflow is just so damn good it really makes me reluctant to want to replace it. I can switch from espresso to filter freely, which is super important to me as my much less coffee nerdy girlfriend also uses the grinder almost every day, and I can switch coffees fairly easily also.
I would love to see you do a video on grinders you would maybe even pair WITH the niche. Because of the advantages of the niche I really have a very hard time imagining parting ways with it, but I really want to delve into flat burr grinding. Are there cheaper grinders that outperform it in certain areas? Would you need to go more expensive or the same price to be happy with another grinder at all? I really have no way to know myself so I would love a video. You could even click bait it "lance's top niche KiLlErS" and then actually just make a video about your avorite flat burr grinders at different price points. anyway, love the work on the channel as always heres your engagement
I own a Niche for 3 weeks now & only drink espresso. Before that i grinded manually - and very slow - with my commandante (which is and will always be amazing) for 6 months. While i agree on most of your points - my verdict is just the opposite, as i just prefer body over clarity on most of my coffees. Sure, the commandate seemed to taste better - but the whole coffee experience was worse. Taste isn'T everything for me. So i guess, my takeaway is: try it. If you like it, you like it. If you don't, you don't. But thats a plus about the Niche --> selling is easy :)
I know the feel. I own the Commandante as well, but just now ordered a Baratza Sette, had it with hand grinding. Sometimes i just want a quick coffee without the fuzz.
I appreciate your honest review. Looking between this and a GBW grinder to replace a Eureka that I'm falling out of love with after two years.
So you say that the Niche pulls something like 70% of the coffees potential. If we accept that as true, what would your estimate be for the % of coffee flavors/potential that the DF64 can get out of coffee? Are there any grinders that pull 100% of a coffees potential? Thanks for such interesting, informative content!
Different style / rendering of coffees basically. Many may prefer the more blended flavour notes of most conicals or some flat burr grinders.
DF64 or Lagom P64 has a few different burr options. I think the Unimodal burrs give the truest rendering of the coffees at least with light roasts it can give you very good high clarity but light body (more tea like) coffee but its sweet spot is going to be allot lower so if you mess up the brew variables you'll end up with a lot worse results.
Lagom p64 with those burrs has basically the opposite profile as the Niche with just as nice workflow so I think having both would be an ideal combo for all types of coffees and brew methods.
Hey Lance, cheers for the video mate - it's just made me even more impatient to get my Lagom p64 with unimodal burrs (which was meant to be this month but now delayed until August).
I am a Niche user, like light roasts and bought the Niche 6 months or so ago in part due to the hype, but also the ease of use and because a retailer told me the conical burrs would work well with light roasts! I find with some coffees I can get flavour clarity, but certainly with some it's just a muddled tasting cup where you shrug your shoulders - thanks for the RPM commentary, that's something for me to explore whilst I await my p64 - hand grinder comparison at low RPM vs the niche. I won't be going back to med-dark roasts though :| and will persist with light roasts and the niche- I think I am getting a better feel for which coffees I will be able to get better clarity out of. And of course I am fully expecting the p64 to blow me away when I finally get it! I also am not big on filter coffee and am hoping the p64 can bring me on board with filter too.
If I knew what I know now 6 months back, I would've just ordered the p64 to start with! The price difference between it and the Niche in Australia is like $400. However, I do plan to keep the Niche side by side and use it for my partners milk based drinks.
Do you reckon with more feedback like yours doing the rounds - there'll be any after market solutions to improve the Niche for clarity - a new burr set you can add for instance? Anyhow, cheers for your work mate, it's great.
I think there is a strong possibility there will be a burrset coming out soon. I may or may not have reached out to a few burr manufacturers a couple months back...
@@LanceHedrick do tell!
Lance, you're supposed to actually give negatives. I'm more sold on the niche after watching than before 😭
Dialing in is still the hardest part for me
oh! If that is your kryptonite, then this would be great!
I have one and I love it. It was my third espresso grinder and it's definitely the best for me, and maybe that's because it correlates with what you were saying about flavour profile. I like the consistency and texture.
I use a different Wilfa grinder for filter.
For sure! Makes sense! It is all about finding what YOU like. Glad you found your babY!
Lance-sama with another long awaited video, let’s go!!
hope you enjoyed!
Thank you for talking about particle distribution. Super informative! Love the golf analogy!
Great review! I really enjoyed the golf reference, it was a great analogy!
thank you! Appreciate the kind remark!
I drift off from the discussion for 2 seconds, and do I return to particle distribution? No! Sergio Garcia here is talking about blade irons vs cavity backs! Did I drift into a parallel universe where Lance is on the pga? I mean he does do the gun fingers like shooter mcgavin…
Some have said lance played High School gold and was on a Junior Tour in his youth...
Thanks for validating my NZ for espresso (love body, chocolate, toffee, caramel in espresso) and C40 for pour-over (love clarity, natural fermentations, and v. v. light roasts)!
For Filter - I find the trick is NO RDT, banging out the lid before a new grind, dosing 0.2g more, grinding finer, and removing fines from the grind cup walls before use with a finger. This drastically cuts down the fines profile 👍. Fine grind technique works well using a single pour rather than bloom
The static can be used to remove the fines
Good point on grinding speed, my K-plus produces very clean cups for sure. Holding it straight or at an angle makes a difference too!
Outstanding Lance holy smokes saved me some cash.
QQs:
1) Do the more precise burrs have a watered down flavor in comparison? 1-b) Does ristretto solve for latte?
2) What if you like medium-dark, thick, ristretto, where you need to add a Tbsp of sugar, lattes?
What burrs shall I aim for?
You rock, keep up the great work!
Agree. I switched from a Sette 270. I could get a better shot from that grinder. However, because I bounce around on beans and brew style, I get more consistent coffee with the Niche. For my home experience it is the right grinder. It also keeps the cafe experience a little more special.
For sure. Consistency is great and malleability from coffee to coffee is wonderful
I need a single dosing espresso grinder for more brighter roast profiles (as you mentioned, I enjoy them as well) in the same price range as the niche
Hi Lance, nice review. As a golfer I really appreciated your comparison. As a novice espresso brewer, I decided to ordered the cavity back grinder after watching your video. My flat burr grinder is still my go to for pour overs.
I think that is a smart decision!
i have a niche since 2020 and thought it was really good.. until i received my P64 with ssp mp last april... now i understand how your review is spot on!
The stache plus the samurai hairstyle 💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯
I know it’s not necessarily cool to mention peoples bodies but when you look that cool, I couldn’t help but commend your hair choices.
Going for tom cruise in last samurai, for sure
Rpm and flavour I agree 100% I broke my wrist and couldn’t hand grind so I stuck my grinder in my vice and used my deWalt drill to do the rotating. I obviously blasted it with full speed at first purely down to the novelty. I soon began to see that fast was not good. Switched to a low gear and ground slowly. Man the change was rad! Slower torque grinds were SO much better that I had to widen the grind ti get the right flow rate but the flavour was incredible. It was because of this I have begun looking for an electric grinder but after this…. I might stick to slow grinding my coffee with my drill
This is a beautiful review Lance! You’re the first one of the top guys to talk about clarity and rpms, and the you demystify the clarity - flat vs conical burrs myth. Would be great if someday you can make an educational video on grinder in general
Lance, I believe you were absolutely right about the reasons for the popularity of the Niche Zero. Specifically the fact that it "gives the most novice of coffee brewer, most green in the coffee world, and a coffee enthusiast that just started, it is going to give them good coffee..."
Let's face it, that describes most people who drink coffee, including myself. I think "good" coffee is "good enough" for most people.
Thanks for all the informative and entertaining videos.
So refreshing to see an honest and balanced review of the niche rather than the hype it always gets usually! I spent a long time recently torn between the niche zero and eureka oro mignon single dose as an upgrade to the built-in grinder on my sage barista pro, but eventually went for the eureka mainly because I think it looks really sleek (I'm not a fan of the niche's design). Having now seen your videos on both of these grinders I'm much more confident that I made the right decision! As you say, the niche still definitely has its place in the market and has worked wonders to improve the quality of home grinders on the market, but it's important to highlight its shortcomings too.
Thanks for always putting out such great content! Your videos always brighten my day, and make me better at brewing coffee at the same time :D
I think you will enjoy the Oro! Some small issues I noted in the video, but every grinder under $1500 has some issues haha! (and over)
Happy brewing!
The Niche gives a very nice dialing experience overall. I don't mind its rustic flavors because I can still taste several of the coffee flavor notes with it. I'll complement it with a flat-burr grinder in the future. I make a lot of milk drinks.
A lot of these people seem to act as if darker roasted coffee all just tastes the same. Or like the addition of any bitterness just cancels out all other flavors and all they can taste is bitterness. That's nonsense from my perspective. There's a wide array of flavor experiences which incorporate bitterness
Awesome Video! Love that you paired it with the Tim Wendelboe beans. I live right around the corner from his shop and have never been able to get anywhere close to the clarity on my niche that I get from his shop. Your taste descriptions were spot on as I also find the flavors muted. I have a P64 on the way so hopefully with multi purpose SSP burrs that will help.
Oh you will love the P64. Get ready for some heavenly coffee.
Do you know if Tim Wendelboe still uses the Robur in his shop?
Really like your latest videos. Been really improving your presence in front of the camera.
Keep up the good work! Have a great time in Europe!
Great video, and I completely agree. The Niche was my first "expensive" coffee purchase (yes, I know "expensive is very subjective, and have since learned what "expensive" can really mean in the coffee world). I personally love the aesthetics and workflow, but my findings on taste have been the exact same as yours. I also gravitate towards bright, fruity light roasts, and I actually think I got more clarity and defined fruit/floral flavors out of my cheap Oxo grinder that I replaced with the Niche (if you can believe it). Coffee is still "good", as you say, and it is super easy to dial in great looking espresso pulls, but after owning it and learning more about coffee and espresso over the last year, I have noticed these shortcomings, which make me want an additional grinder (not sure how I'll break that one to my wife): lots of fines when making pour over, leading to slow draw-downs and muddied flavors; Only getting subtle hints of the fruity flavors in light-roasted coffee, usually only perceptible in the finish/aftertaste; acidity doesn't taste like it's "connected" to any particular flavor. Again, I love the workflow, build, aesthetics, and acoustics (love the low-pitched growl, compared to some grinders' high pitched shriek), and wish there was something that gave me those elements but with a much higher clarity in the cup. I really don't like the idea of sifting coffee, as it seems like such a wasteful practice, but do you think that's something that would improve clarity, by narrowing the distribution?
Yes. For pourovers, sifting out maybe some sub 200micron grounds would definitely clean the cup up drastically. But, of course, you are wasting about 3g in a 15g dose if grinding at around 1000microns. so, that isn't ideal.
The aesthetic grew on me. I didn't like it initially but it certainly isn't a bad looking grinder.
I cant afford one, likely never will have one in my kitchen, it looks good on RUclips and IG 😂
Regarding a grinders flavour profile, I wonder how someone could figure out what grinder profile they like without having access to them.
I think there is something in the experiencing of investing into a home grinder and needing that substantial monetary investment to be justified.
My two pennies worth.
Started following you very recently. I truly love your transparency and seriousness in description and information. This video made it easier (for me) to decide what I want. Thank you so much. 🙏🏻
Well done LH, I think you navigated the minefield of some peoples emotional attachment to an opinion (whether it is theirs or a borrowed opinion). I was looking to up my grinder game last year and looking for a single dose, easy workflow tool that allowed me to try may different coffee styles. I couldn’t get hold of a Niche at the time but a friend lent me theirs for a week. I have never drunk so much coffee in a week! At the end of the week my conclusion was, it has a brilliant workflow, hard to make a terrible espresso with it but I was beginning to doubt I had the palette to enjoy a wide range different roasts. I delayed purchasing any new grinder and went to learning, reading watching you and other YT producers. Concluded I needed to find something with similar workflow but that had access to a wider range of different burr sets. I found something that suited my workflow needs and gave me the features I was looking for. The solution I was happiest with cost me almost double what I was going to pay for the niche but it ticked enough boxes to see the value that suited me. Conclusion, the Niche is an amazing machine and depending on your needs, desires and budget it may well be the perfect single dose grinder for you. I just found it wasn’t doing what I wanted to do but there was something else that did.
Only what I've been saying for well over a year, so nothing but support for you bringing this to the larger platform. This is really when we're getting into the next hurdle of the coffee industry, burr design. Imagine a Niche designed for light roasts. (I actually feel the DF64 with SSP MultiPurpose burrs and camperista chute mod is there, with a very easy workflow, but it could use some better fit and finish).
My year in review for the fellow ode would be a timelapse of it collecting dust
Lol my niche sits largely in a cabinet unless testing
Hi Lance, just on the off chance you see this:
First of all, thanks for what I felt was a well-rounded and balanced review. I bought my niche some years ago when it was one the few, if not the only single dosing grinder on the market and a lot of what you say rings true. In particular the point about the fines is good to hear, because the Niche's tendency towards a bitter finish has been a source of frustration for me recently (but only after over two years, which further confirms your point about it being good but maybe not reaching the last few percent).
Second, I wanted to point you in the direction of the Austrian channel @Kaffeemacher. They are currently doing an extensive review series of 50 or so grinders including particle analysis. Their content is in German, so the graphs on particle distribution are likely to be the most interesting to you. Interestingly some findings of theirs match yours (noticeable fines, leading to a bitter finish), some may be reconciled with the right context (they consider the width of the main particle peak "average", which may be influenced by including many more affordable grinders in the comparison) and some seem to contradict yours (they like the Niche for filter and prefer it even over the Eureka XL, a flat burr grinder).
I've copied links to two videos and a blog post below and would be interested to hear what you think, especially regarding the particle distribution that they measured.
www.kaffeemacher.ch/blog/niche-zero-test/
ruclips.net/video/4eIAhEyALAU/видео.html at 16:08
ruclips.net/video/YMRYNCGjS6A/видео.html At 14:47
Hey! I know of their work. They also aren't using a laser particle diffractor but an imaging machine. I chat frequently with Samo, who is a professor at the uni they are at for the measurements.
Thanks for taking the time to leave the comment!
I bought a niche zero to upgrade from a Eureka Mignon (50mm). Found it can make for some very thicccc espresso and it's such a breeze to use. However I found that the clarity of flavours from the shot in the cup was lacking, even compared to the Eureka Mignon. Eventually sold both the Niche Zero and the Eureka Mignon and upgraded to a Hey-Cafe H1 (64mm flat burr) and am really happy with the cups it's producing.
Oh nice! I have been meaning to try that grinder
Nice and balanced expression of observations, Lance. Much appreciated!
I've found myself in the minority of having a depth of respect of the 3rd wave coffee roasting experience that is first and foremost attempting to express the terroir of the bean's origin, but ultimately my personal daily preference being those of chocolate, caramel, wine, and some tannins-with a heavy emphasis on texture and body. I've found the Niche Zero fine for daily use where I'm not really being critical. I do agree my IZ hand grinders offer more clarity in espresso, but have found that my use cases are ones to satisfy curiosity rather than being an end goal.
Your comments have definitely triggered in me the desire to get a 3rd grinder (I use the Fellows Ode for my pourovers and aeropress) to have a tool that can give me reliable, consistent access to that clarity when I'm curious to learn. My wallet is refusing to enable that desire. ;)
Thanks, as always, for your honest, clear articulations of observations and thought, and safe journeys across the pond! Looking forward to seeing your videos from your new studio! 💪🙏🛫
thank you so much for this comment! I really appreciate it (also, you can totally pull the occasional shot with the ode if you have after market burrs in it). Thanks for the love!
@@LanceHedrick ohhhhh interesting. It had been on my mind to get alt burrs, but slipped until you just mentioned. Thanks for the tip and nudge! 🙌
Interesting video. I have been using my Niche for a bit over a year for home espresso and the analysis helps me decode some of my observations as I’ve learned more about home espresso.
I’ve found the Niche to be wonderful for home espresso where I’m pulling 2 shots per day. My first shot gets timed and the second gets a small adjustment to hit a 1:2 in about 30 seconds. I’m guessing the relatively wide particle distribution makes this possible as I find I’m usually not far off from where I should be while dialing in.
If I were pulling more than 2 shots per day I would probably chase that extra 30% or so that Lance is referencing. But I’m not and I still love the look and the build quality of the Niche.
Keep up the great videos! Don’t apologize for your opinions
Super helpful for the ones we need to know your honest opinion. Thanks!
Breaks out the mobster haircut then comes in swinging at the Niche Zero all in one week. What a man.
haha! Watching too much Scorcese
What you describe here has been completely my experience with the Niche. I bought it with high expectations, given all the reviews and positive endorsements, but I certainly don’t find the coffee it produces the best for my preferences. My Baratza Virtuoso+ produces much more enjoyable filter, and I have stopped trying to get a cup I enjoy from the Niche. So, I am glad to see this review up-it certainly would have made me second guess my decision when buying the Niche, and it gives me confirmation that I am not just failing when dialling in either espresso or filter. Plus, you have convinced me to start playing around with my Kinu again for espresso (it has been dormant because, well, workflow is obviously better with electric grinders!) and start shopping around for a grinder that would suit me better, which I already had considered doing.
The Kinu is so great for espresso. It is reminiscent of the SSP HU burrs, to an extent. I think you will like it (whenever you feel like manually grinding fine grounds haha!)
That golf club analogy tho… I already liked you Lance, might be love now. 🏌️♂️❤️
After a long consideration I purchased a Niche. A lot of my decision to purchase it was due to this review.
I replaced a MACAP M4D which I couldn’t stand the clumping it produced.
The Niche is hands down better in that area with the grind it produces being very light and … fluffy. The MACAP also had an enormous amount of retention which the Niche obviously doesn’t.
I prefer shots with body that have the chocolate and caramel notes which is why I appreciated this review.
Taste is subjective and this review gave me the confidence that the Niche would be my choice over others such as the DF64.
Thanks for another great video Lance, I picked the Niche up after using a Specialita for about a year. Both great grinders, but I like the quiet of the Niche and for those occasional pour overs I don't have to fuss adjusting it from course to my fine tuned espresso grind. I do use bellows and don't have a lot of issue with static.