A Backcountry XC/Downhill Perspective on the Altai Hok Ski-Shoes
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- Опубликовано: 28 фев 2023
- There are several brands that make or have made skin-based skis. Some seem a little gimmicky to me - Altai does not. (See also their Kom ski.)
Also, unless you’re strictly going to be snowshoeing with them, don’t fall for the allure of using your own shoes in a universal binding (just my opinion). The universal binding opens these kinds of skis up to a larger market, but it is not useful from a skiing perspective.
Feel free to ask any questions if you’re curious. 
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Can't get enough of hearing "cross-country downhill skier"! Finally a label I can identify with 😊
I was pretty excited as well to realize this was a thing a few years ago!
I picked up a pair of the original Hoks about 10 years ago specifically to learn how to make better tele-turns, coming from a strictly XC background. These were a really great piece of gear for this old fart to do that with on local hills and were my intro to XCD, too. These days, I use my Hoks with friends who want to go snowshoeing in the woods and make 'em jealous with the bit of glide I get from a diagonal stride and to play when I take my kid sledding.
Sounds about right. Did they improve your tele-turns? I feel like my tele-turns with the Hoks are either somewhat better or much worse compared to using my other gear, depending on conditions. I see other folks on RUclips skiing them really well, though the short length seems to send even the best skiers plummeting face-first from time to time.
@@GoTeleOnTheMountain, I would say that the Hoks helped me improve by slowing me down far more than regular skis and in going slow I could work on the “form” of telemark turns. (It’s an old martial arts paradox thing,: Yeah, you can do the technique fast, but you learn to do it right by doing it slowly.) That slow “form” practice for a few seasons really made a difference in my confidence and I was able to adapt what I got out of those Hok practice sessions. Of course, making tele-turns on a pair of XC, XCd or xcD skis is not quite the same, for me, and the learning curve continues on “real” skis. I can make and connect okay tele-turns, but not a perfect ones!
I got my Hoks for skiing “hiking” trails that the snowshoe’rs had packed down. Compared to a scaled BC ski you have better grip on the up and a lot more control on the down. I went with the 3 pin binding (standard) and all leather 3 pin boots that I ended up using on my BC 70’s and other skis too. You can get an adapter plate for NNNBC. I don’t recommend the “Universal Binding”.
Yeah, for hiking trails with a trench and some pitch, they would be better than xc skis. I have my doubts about using them with NNN BC unless the goal is just snowshoeing or unchallenging terrain (but I see enough people posting pictures of that combination, so some folks must like it).
I'm disappointed in the downhill performance of my Hoks, which I bought thinking they would make it fun to yo-yo short hills where removable skins etc are too much hassle. Two problems arise: The bindings are placed way far forward -- good for snowshoeing I guess -- but it really throws off downhill balance, requiring you to sit way back when attempting to turn. Also, friction from the large grippy skins not only slows you on the downhills, which is fine, but it equally resists pivoting. I have only tried the Hoks in hard, crusty snow, but found them almost impossible to control downhill, even with cable bindings. Plastic boots help, but not enough to make the experience enjoyable.
Before I bought them I thought the single-pole-dragging downhill technique promoted by Altai was silly. Now I think it may be the only way to use them.
Good info. Yeah, they’re great as snowshoes in all conditions but only good as skis in some conditions, I guess. On a few inches of soft snow over a firm base, they do ski well and can be turned/maneuvered sharply. On crusty snow, they’re too short/wide to carve and the skin makes it awkward to smear.
I just picked up a pair of Guide/Annum/M78's and have been having an absolute blast on them this week in a foot of fresh powder. I chose the 182cm for my shortest XCD ski and have been pleased with the performance all around and surprised with how well they have glided in ideal conditions thus far. I weigh 182-184lbs. Part of the reason I went short was to ski the tighter trees in powder and this has been great. Sorry for the long preamble, but I'm wondering what your thoughts and impressions are on going with the 195cm and what you weigh.
Hi, Wabene! I followed that thread a bit on TTalk (after the fact, when it was too late to offer my 2 cents). I actually have both the 195cm Annums with Voilé 3-pin Hardwires and 185cm with Switchback bindings. The differences are fairly marginal and the bindings have a much bigger effect on which skis I choose to use on a particular day. I like that the 195s have the Hardwires because I basically use those with just the pins for days when I really want to tour further/faster and don’t really know what to expect. That setup is great for longer, sweeping turns and a little more stability at speed, and it tours better on the flats because of the pins and the longer ski.
The 185s are what I will take out if I’m going to be more focused on the downhill, and there’s a long climb followed by a long downhill (just because the Switchback bindings require a little transition between ups and downs, which I try to avoid in rolling terrain or for short yo-yo laps). That setup is slightly better for turning a little more sharply, and in steeper terrain, I don’t mind less float so I can ski a little deeper in the snow column and check my speed that way. I will often use partial skins (1.5” wide or so, hooked on the tip and run a little past underfoot) with this setup.
By the way, I’m maybe just a little lighter than you, 6’3”, and ski in the Rockies (so float might matter a bit more here than in the N.E.).
I've been intrigued by the hoks as a ski for dense tree skiing. My concern is it seems like the 110mm waist width would be impossible to edge with a leather boot on firm snow. Have you found that to be the case? Also I'm curious if the integrated skis will ever be not enough grip, especially on refrozen lumpy corn forests, needing to also bring full length skins.
I think on semi-rotten corn snow you might struggle for traction if you can’t get the grip zone to contact the snow with enough pressure, otherwise they generally climb really well and make a full-length skin unnecessary (although ice and boilerplate are also a struggle). They ski well on supportive corn where just the top few inches have slushed up (enough grip, and they also glide pretty well on corn - might be a favorite time to use them). Mid-winter snow in dense forests in CO tends to be too soft and the Hoks sink to the point of not being able to glide. It might be different in climates with denser/slushier snow. Edging has been tricky with leather boots if the snow isn’t soft, but smearing turns is always easy peasy.
You're right they are hopeless downhill on firm snow with a leather boot.
Any idea how these would work for back country skijoring?
I know next to nothing about skijoring, but I’m guessing you want just about as much glide as possible? If so, these aren’t great for that because of the integrated skin. Maybe somebody with more knowledge than I have can comment if they see this.
Have you also tried the Koms? If so, what has been your experience? If not, why not?
I wish. I was holding out for a good deal on either the Koms or a Voilé scaled ski, and ended up finding some Voilés first. I’m sure the Kom is a great BC ski for the kind of skiing I do, though, and cheaper than Voilés brand new.