Gonna join in on the Osmose defense fund here, Jeffrey. It's something you really need to play to understand, and it also helps if you can really play. It's not a gimmick in any way. It's a bonafide new kind of instrument. I've had mine for about a year. Even as a classically trained piano player, the minute I laid hands on the Osmose, I knew instantly that this was a different animal entirely. The poly AT is just the beginning. The sensitivity on the keyboard is like 200% more exact and detailed than anything I've ever played. It emotes literally the minute you touch the keyboard. Playing ensemble sounds becomes an entirely different experience, and I'm sorry, but plugging a pedal in (or even using a D-beam, ribbon or the like) is not the same as having that level of control under the fingers of a skilled player. And the pressure glide feature allows me to convincingly play phrases like a string player, and I've had multiple talented string players (guitarists, cellists) express amazement at what I can do with it. And I consider myself somewhat of an expert with a pitch wheel. The MPE arp is also a game changer that needs to be PLAYED, not read about. Magic when connected to analog gear. It's just not a keyboard you buy on specs. You lay your hands on it and if you get it, you get it. If you don't, you don't. It's also just beginning to evolve and will improve vastly over the next few years. AND, that said, I'm also a big proponent of pure analog and just received my Moog Muse after a month-long wait and it is EPIC. Really, almost better than the hype would've led me to believe. With my Rev2 and Osmose (and a Crumar Seven for all things electro) I'm stacked beyond any dreams I had as a teenager when I bought my first synth.
You don't need to play it to understand the operational principles. You can assign pitch and mod wheels to do what it does. You talking about feelings, not what can be accomplished.
@@matthewgaines10 pitch and mod wheels do not operate on a note by note basis. The Osmose is about putting control in the finger that's playing the note. It's like a cello or violin ... you are in control of the dynamics and pitch on an ongoing per-note basis throughout the duration of the note.
About the Osmose; it sounds to me you never palyed one. And if you did, you probably have a very 'piano' or 'keyboard' aproach to synthesizers. When I was 16 years old or so, played the piano for a while but also guitar and flute, the piano started to feel ridged, constrained. In my mind I made up an instrument that would not only respond to how 'hard' I hit the keys, but also to what I did afterwards. Like with a guitar, violin or flutes and brass and such. Push on it, wiggle it, and also the position of my finger on the key would make the sound change. Now, many years later, I own a Roli Seaborard Grand and an Osmose. And yes, they make the keyboard concept much more expressive in the sense that they use the power of the synthesizer much more direct, in a very tactile way. Though I can play simmilar sounding melodies with all kind of expressions on an old Roland SH2000, the control is much, much more precise on the Osmose. It is so sensitive, i did have to adapt my playing technique. (same goes for the Roli, but in a very different way). So the Osmose is far from a 'gimmick', I think any musician should be able to see and hear that. It cannot be your thing of course, due to what you expect from a synthesizer. I expect it to be the most expressive instrument ever invented, because it gives you the possibility to play ALL the soundshaping aspects of a sound, not just the ones that physics happens to give. About the breath controller. I also have that and I used it together with a Yamaha VL70m. Amazing, really. I sold the VL70m because I needed the monay but also because it sounded to much like 'the real thing', and then is useing the real thing not the better thing? A synthesizer is not by definition an instrument to solve all kind of praktical issues, like don't have to throw around heavy piano's and orgens when you having a gig. It can replace those things because it is much more than these instruments (though a good piano is a thing on its own, but you can't utilize that in pop music becuase the nuance will be lost in the proces), nevertheless a synth is a thing on its own and Expressive E has done a great job opening the heart of the synthesizer within the keyboard paradigm. One of the great things of the Osmose is the delicacy. If you lay a finger softly on the keys, the sound is already there, very soft. When you start to press the key further in, the sound swells, like you blow harder on a saxophone, but not with a saxophone sound. And with the same preset, when you hit the key fast, the sound with be fast and plucky. Your fingers become the envelope generator for every single note you play....! So play an Osmose, and you'll know what I mean. Probably you still won't like it, because you have your way of playing and what you need from your instrument, but a gimmick it will not be anymore. Kind regards, Allard Krijger
@@HazeAnderson a synthesizer is much more than any wind instrument. It has this thing that people think it is a keyboard instrument It is not. Osmose is a version of a keyboardinterface that does the synthesizer much more justice. And all instruments need care and attention and repair at some point in their live. Synthesizers in their present form are the newcomers, and there are no stradivarius synths yet. But then, the vast majority of all musical instruments brake down and are replaced.
@@matthewgaines10 I don't think we are talking about the same thing here. A piano cannot play in between the notes, cannot slide, kan not alter its volume curve. You can with a synthesizer and controllers, but you loose the connection, it gets more mechanical than say playing a string, a wind instrument or the Theremin for example. The Osmose brings all thise things directly to your fingers. And more. But I guess this turned into a discussion not about musical expression itself, but what we think certain instruments can do and how they can sound and which array of musical expression belongs to which instrument. In my point of view a synthesizer is not a keyboard instrument. It can be controlled by a keyboard and then it does keyboardy things. It can be controlled by a windcontroller (I used to have a WX11, very nice to play with) and then it does wind instrument things. The Osmose opens up the keyboard paradigm, and gives you new expressions if you are willing to put the time and effort in to sort of redefine how you play keys. On youtube you see a lot of demo's with it by people who have it for a week or two, and you can hear and see they don't master it yet, or it is a first encounter and the new language needs to develop. Most of them play keys very well, not everyone has a feeling for the Osmose first time playing. Similar with the SOMA Terra, also an MPE instrument. When I played that one for the first time I thought it was sort of easy to do. After a month I realized I was just starting te scratch the surface. With the Osmose I had a similar experience, though a bit easier because it is a keyboard after all. But a synthesizer with a standard keyboard does not have the same musical scope as the Osmose. No matter how good the player is. It is very different.
The 3rd wave is not analog. It does have analog filters, but the oscillators are digital. It's a perfect recreation of the PPG Wave plus more. Glad I got mine in 2022 for $3800, I knew they'd go up in price. Still more than I paid for my PPG Wave 2.2, but good luck finding one now for under $10k. The PPG sound is so unique and beautiful.
I appreciate that. I did make sure to say towards the end of the video, that I think they all sound good, and they do. You're a lucky guy to own five of them. Thanks for the comment.
How dare you poo poo on my favorite synthesizer. I will politely tell you why you are wrong. It is because I am right. And you made my favorite synthesizer cry. I hope my silly comment didn't waste your time.
11:34 I love my Hydrasynth Explorer, but the problem is that some conditions like the sync mutants give it severe aliasing. It doesn't help that it runs on an underpowered DSP meant for digital pianos. The Modwave has way more voices and might be a better alternative to the Hydrasynth. The cool thing about the 3rd Wave is that it has FX per part! It even lets you use oscillators as mod sources.
@@JeffreyScottPetro You're welcome. Also, you should have focused on the Iridium keyboard instead of the Quantum. And I heard that the Osmose has a playing experience like no other. Not to mention, the revolutionary sound engine and new firmware update.
For every synth you mentioned in your list as the video went on, I was shouting "Yeaaah! A-MEN!" and I can't stress enough on how much I agree with you. I also think you were Veeeery polite on the criminal against humanity that calls itself "Crumar". =BUT= When you mentioned the Osmose AND in Nr.1 position.. .. all my excitement crumbled away in oblivion. So, I questioned inside: "How can a musician be so intelligent to nail every overhyped/overpriced synth so perfectly, so spot-on and STILL make such an awful mistake about the Osmose?" I'm guessing the answer is what other people have already suggested. You simply haven't played with one. It shows, it's the only explanation that fits Logic. So, yes, I totally agree with every synth you mentioned, but in Nr.1 I would place something else, for example, the new Polybrute 12..
You really need to play the Osmose to understand it... a pedal, mod wheel, or front panel knob (all global) can't do what each finger can do individually on the Osmose. Like the ROLI you can fade notes in finger by fnger (attack and release times become a note-by-note performance choice), but unlike the ROLI you can also play quickly, in chords, and in tune. The depth and feel of the aftertouch on the Osmose is amazing... nothing at all like the Hydrasynth, ROLI, or Ensoniq's poly AT (I own them all). The Osmose is definitely not a gimmick... it's the most expressive keyboard controller yet made.
I agree with you in the main and I like your videos. On the Osmose though it's not Polyphonic Aftertouch it's MPE which is much better than Poly AT. It's a totally different thing.... and a totally different level of expression, much more than what you could do with a pedal. I tried one at Superbooth and the control you get is totally immense way beyond a Hydrasynth Deluxe(Which I own) . The built in sound engine isn't great and that's what has put me off me getting one. I agree with you on the point how much do we actually need these things.... I had a Roli a few years back and I loved it great fun to play. It went faulty and I had to send it back to get repaired. Over than time period I just got out of the habit of using it and when it came back I used it about 3 times in 6 months. I sold it..... I kind of regret it though
I appreciate your thoughtful comment, and that you didn't personally attack me like other folks. I understand MPE, and I do recognize its unique attributes. On "how much do we really need these things" I believe we agree. I can see the attraction for some folks. I have played the Roli, and it was interesting. Thanks for the comment.
@@JeffreyScottPetro I’m sorry to hear that you’ve experienced personal abuse, I don’t personally understand why people feel the need to behave that way. Unfortunately if you are going to make any kind of video that contains any kind of controversy that’s going to happen, unfortunately that’s the way of the world. I’ve had it many times for playing Keytar which is apparently considered controversial…..
Most of these synths are niche instruments. Not a huge market for them. That's why they so expensive. Economy of scale. I paid $1050 for a Roland S-10 sampler in 1986. That's basically $3000 in today's money. So in my view, the Waldorf is a freaking bargain.
Hi Jeffrey. I appreciate your honest opinions on these synths and keyboards and agree with the majority of what you say. Nord are Swedish, so they're always going to be expensive. Moog Minimoog is just ridiculous pricing. It's not like they're made in the USA anymore, just assembled from pre-filled circuit boards made overseas. Their new flagship poly is 3\5 of the price of the Minimoog for crying out loud! The 3rd waveis also a silly price. Behringers version will probably be in the same ballpark as the UBXA or, more likely, less. I'm on the fence about the Osmose. My cousin has one and I'll reserve judgement 'til I play with that. I can say I don't like the look of it - the way the keys are, it looks like it has a missing cover plate. Behringer takes a lot of heat, but price is the bottom line for me. I have quite a few of their products, but I also have some classics that I love. When I was a teenager I could afford one synth and a tape machine, until I got a Polysix for my 18th birthday and I felt like a king. Then I got a Mirage and I felt like king of the world 😀 Today I have so much more, thanks to pension drawdown and it cost less than what I had when a teenager. Crazy times! Cheers ✌️
#1 wrong, Osmose has in built synth with 24 voices, full MPE and at 1/2 or 1/3 of the cost of other synths on the list makes this below the minis at triple the price etc... I also have a lot of synths and the sound from the in built Matrix of new MPE synths amazing, is my fav synth at present.
Nice new theme song.Totally agree Hopefully it would allow manufacturers to recognize that we expect a synclavier or K 250 in a DX5 at the original Casio price in todays world or cheap memory and cost reduction.
I agree with your assessments here, especially on the analog synthesizers. For me, the biggest issue is with the price, as you mentioned. Don't get me wrong, the Moog / Oberheim / Prophet synthesizers played a massive role in music history, and I love those 70's and 80's sounds, but paying $3000-$6000 for equipment that sounds decades old isn't appealing to me, or a wise financial proposition given that I'm not a millionaire. Generally speaking, though, I think that the hardware synthesizer and workstation manufacturers are spending too much time replicating old sounds in their new, expensive keyboards. It's 2024, and there are a lot of software synthesizers capable of new, excellent sounds. I've been hoping to get those new styles of synthesis in a workstation (because I love the workflow of workstations like the Kronos X), but that hasn't happened yet.
I think you are spot on! (except for one). I have experience with a number of these instruments, or have researched heavily from objective user reviews, etc. Yes, the Piano 5 is a head-scratcher for the price. Not even organ sounds (although I *think* you can add sounds, but with no drawbars? And no mod wheels? No way. I would rather have a Linnstrument than an Osmose for a more expressive tactile experience with an instrument. The OBX8 has some serious limitations for such an expensive synth, including a lack of controls, and a very poor arpeggiator, and I came to the conclusion that it was those tired sounds I would be playing on it mostly anyway and getting it to fit in the mix is more difficult. The GForce Oberheim software plugs are really quite surprisingly good. Prophet 10 - maybe would consider if added features and stereo. Two others I think are overpriced for the value: Moog One, and the Montage M8 - the latter due to the lack of true workstation capabilities, albeit a great board on other fronts. OK, the one I disagree pretty sharply on is the 3rrd Wave. This as a remarkable and very musical instrument, backed by some of the best customer support you can find. Sounds fantastic, flexible, great UI with near knob-per-function control, 4-part multitimbral and sequencing, now some limited sampling capability - a beautiful Prophet-style filter, plus a pretty credible state variable digital filter, mixes very well, 4 assignable outputs, good build quality, etc.. Check out Miles Away's reviews. Agreed that a lot of the loaded presets weigh toward the wavetable textures but you can quickly come up with beautiful hybrid/VA sounds. The FX are just icing on the cake and are indeed better than many boards with built-in effects. It's a keeper for me and I do not think I overspent at all.
This guy is great, he's simply applying some logical order in this industry, where those highly overpriced new keyboards have no sense and place, by observing their features against price. I have workstations of those 'three great brands', whose features turn the face of any of these devices pale, being far cheaper. Any used or new Yamaha Modx, or Fantom or Nautilus for example, or a Kurzweil, even a Krome sounds great and have many more features, and great tactile screens...
I mostly agree with this lisy, especially on Nord, whose popularity baffles me. I slightly disagree on the Osmose, which tries to make the keyboard experience more like the very organic experience of using a string or horn. For a piano, it's too short and not ideal, but for a keyboard player looking for a violin or guitar experience, it feels natural in a way that traditional controllers would not. Interestingly, in the 1970's , Yamaha had the "wiggle" feature on some high-end combo organs. I found it to be surprisingly natural and intuitive, and I've always been disappointed that it never became more widely adopted. And the internal sound set is also (rightly) biased towards encouraging these types of simulated acoustic lead lines. Finally, the price is comparable to controllers like the Roli Seaboard, whch are inferior in almost every way and don't even include internal sounds. So I don't think it's overprced for what it is. I also disagree to some extent on the Quantum. Yes it's expensive compared to a Hydrasynth, to Serum or even to a Waldorf Iridium Keyboard. But it's beautifully made and engineered. It's one of the most versatle instruments on sale, and can make sounds that almost no other instrument can. If you're a sound designer or soundtrack artist, it can be easily worth the money. I own a Quantum Mk 1, and I'm very happy with it. My only real complaint is that the audio path is pure stereo---unless you use the single analog filter. This forces it to mono. The instrument splits it back and simulates stereo again, but it's really a terrible omission on an instrument in this class, and they kept tis serious flaw and didn't fix it on the Mk 2. Still, the display, controls, design and sounds are so compelling that I find myself comng back to it again and layering it with my more mainstream workstations and synths. OS upgrades to the Mk 1 have given it 16 voices and most of the features of the Mk 2 (except for the MPE keyboard), so you might consider a used Mk 1 to save some money. Think of it like a used Porsche.
Interesting about the Yamaha wiggle feature you mentioned. It sounds familiar. Circa 1984 I entered the Yamaha Electone Festival. My memory is fuzzy, but we played a three manual Yamaha Electone organ, and the top manual had synth sounds, and I think it had the wiggle feature. Thanks for the comment.
While I can't agree with most of the selections, there is definitely value in undervalued synths. I'd flip this around, my top 10 undervalued/attractively priced: DSI Morpho desktop, DSI Tetra desktop, MKS-50, A-Station/K-Station, JX-08, Prologue 8, Take5/TEO5, ESQ-m, Reface DX, Minifreak.
Yeah, I have a Virus KC, which I bought used for $1200 about ten years ago. So glad I bought that and not a Nord Lead. The Virus is an absolute BEAST of a synth.
Waldorf seems expensive for the US market, but they might be paying high export fees/taxes because Waldorf is reasonably priced in Europe. Contrast that with Australia where imported electronic instruments amongst other things are expensive.
As an experimental musician, I have never been drawn to expensive synthesizers. I purchase instruments that help define my sound, and most of the synths I have purchased over the years are from the used market, although not all of them. Technology has made some ground over the years, but not enough to shell out thousands of hard earned dollars for old technology repackaged into a new and improved, so the manufacturers claim instrument. How many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop, the world may never know.🤓
Wow! This is the first time that I hear an analysis where I can't find any illogical statements. I once owned an original OB-8, an ARP Odyssey, a Roland D-50, a Yamaha DX-7, a Korg PS-3200 and a Moog Source forty years ago, got rid of it all and, to this day, still regret it. Would I go out and buy an OB-X8 or a reissued Moog Model D or a Korg PS-3300? Are you kidding me??? At those prices? I would buy a great controller and then a bunch of great software synths.
I have two episodes coming that talk about the Moog Source. It's a colorful synth. Thanks for the comment.
2 дня назад+1
Loved the Nord roast! ;D In a tangential league, perhaps the Nautilus should have made it into the list. Not sure if the value for money equation works for it being a handicapped Kronos in 2024... don't get me wrong it's still a great workstation but I believe the Montages and Fantoms to be ahead, I think it's better to get a second hand Kronos.
Totally agree on the Nautilus. The best thing about the Kronos was the Organ engine. The Nautilus still has it, but they stripped away the sliders, so now there are no drawbars, making it much less useful. It doesn't even boot faster. Be careful with a used Kronos, though. They're rather fragile and a lot of them have problems, so try before you buy.
День назад
@@geoffk777 they can take my kronos 2 from my cold dead hands
Okay, let me list synthesizers and keyboard that are not over-hyped or overpriced: Korg Nautilus Roland RD-2000 Roland JUPITER-X/Xm Roland JUNO-X Roland SYSTEM-8 Roland JD-XA Roland SH-4d Korg Prologue Yamaha Montage M7 To put it simple, if you buy a Korg, Roland, or Yamaha, you won't be tricked or ripped off.
I agree with some of your list. My only guilty item is my Oberheim X8. However, this was probably the most instantly gratifying putchase in a keyboard I have ever made. Is it new technology? No but $5k in terms of what these things cost in dollars when they came out is really nothing. Tom Oberheim is the last of the early synth makers still alive. I bought my Moog Voyager back when Bob himself introduced it. With the slew rate upgrade it sounds extremely close to the Model D, and has way more featuree. 5k for the Model D seems high, but look at what Moog was asking for a Moog 15! The Sequential Dave Smith stuff, I am on the fence with. Mostly because there seem to be several competing products and I am not sure which one is the better choice. I already own a Prophet 08. The bigger problem overall, is finding music that puts these great instruments to use. Maybe I need to completely get guitar players out of the picture.
I haven't played either of them, yet. Obviously, I've seen/heard the demos, and they seem like more of the same to me. Two more ANALOG synths with lots of flexibility abnd they sound good for what they are, but nothing I need. I do think they, like many other current analog synths, will put even more pressure on classic analogs like: MemoryMoog, Jupiter-6/8, and modern analogs. More competition is always good for us as musicians price-wise. Thanks for the comment.
Osmose defense. First, its certainly one of the most innovative mpe synths+controllers out there. Its also a different kind of instrument that adapts to a keyboard player/style so its "familiar" but also unique. Its not just a ribbon type mpe controller like the Continuum, or a sponge pad like the roli. MPE controllers come in all type of designs, but the Osmose is very unique. It also has the Eagan Matrix synth built in and with the new update 2 they are going to simplify setting up patches for it because that thing is a beast to understand. I believe the osmose and Eagan matrix engine was used in Dune 2 and commissioned by Mr Zimmer himself. The Polyphonic AT osmose provides is nothing you can do with your pedals or knobs on a standard MIDI keyboard as each note responds to pressure and velocity on its own depending how you "wiggle" or move the key, independent from all other keys; You'd need 10+ pedals (for each of your fingers) and 10 legs/feet then if you are to command special instructions to each key, independently, using a pedal for example; in the osmose case, more than 10 to be honest because you will be playing more than 10 keys too, so there , even more complicated. Its also a different kind of AT. Something that is close IMO in terms of AT is the new Polybrute 12's AT, but that is also limited and lacks the sideways per key motion (pair the two though, you get the osmose feel with 12 analog oscillators on the Polybrute, amazing stuff). The Osmose does seem delicate to me, but thats just me, I could be wrong; Its not something id toss around or just dump in a keyboard bag and run. Saying that, there is a growing Osmose community that helps tend to fixes and things you can do. EE has been great at supporting their users too, and most fixes are easy to do. The whole keyboard comes off from the bottom so access to it is quite easy. I 'd say I 'd be comfortable replacing the rubber parts under the keys if I had to. Again, the Osmose isn't an just a piano or mpe controller on its own, its not a toy, or gimmick. It's its own instrument; It requires serious ownership to time and effort to learn it because it is honestly, spectacular.
Have you tried the boog vs the reissue? I did. I wouldn’t praise both. 70% travel on some knobs does nothing on the boog. The reissue lacks low and mine had an issue so i don’t t think they will last 50 years either just like my other 2 recent moogs had issues.
I honestly don't get the inclusion of the Osmose. Others who actually own one have gone into reams of detail while it's misrepresented by you in your description, but I'll bring up another point - the price! It's $200 dollars cheaper than a goddam TE OP-1 Field! Given that there actually isn't anything out there that can do what it does (not pedals, not other poly aftertouch synths), it's $1700! That's also cheaper than a Hydrasynth Deluxe.
Entertaining video with some interesting insights. Regarding the Prophet 6, I think at the time, it was a highly anticipated synth because it was the closest you could get to owning a Prophet 5 and Yamaha had kindly given back the Sequential name to Dave Smith. So having the Prophet pedigree and being the first to have the reacquired Sequential Circuits name, many synth nerds were virtually drooling over the prospect. The 49 keys are fine for artists like Peter-John Vetesse, Matt Johnson and countless others, so not totally convinced with the idea it was a cost cutting exercise. I wonder if the Prophet 5 was already in the pipeline so the P6 had to have some "concessions" so it wouldn't compete directly with the P5. The black panelling being another.
For ppl in the UK, can I recommend Korg refurbished - I got a SV2-S from them for nearly half price… and the D next to middle C was physically broken! It was unusuable! I thought I’d made a huge mistake! However Korg were absolutely brilliant, I got a replacement a week later. I keep telling this story to ppl because I actually think their customer service was outstanding. (Also I agree, why would you buy a Minimoog for thousands? I got my Behringer PolyD for a fraction of the price in a sale from Thomann online!)
I'd disagree about the Waldorf Quantum. There's like 5 sound engines in it. Can't think of many synths out there that can do audio rate modulation of wavetables.
Any 8 voice monotimbral digital synth from the last 10 years that costs over €750 . Dont care how good they sound, should be at least 4 part multitimbral. And Swedish manufacturers are always overpriced, overhyped, and overdesigned.
If your crieteria is list of features for the price then yes, something like a hydrasynth looks better bang for buck. But for this example, as someone who owned it - it sounds like crap amd all the gazillion filter types or modulation options in the world aren't gonna help it sound good. But hey! It has many features so it must be better. As for a synth like the Prophet 10 which i own, and have it side by side with uhe repro 5 - they are not the same, sorry. The vst can get close at some settings, but for extreme settings it's close but no cigar. Specially sounds that involve polymod. Think osc1 pulse width being audio rate modulated by osc2, which is in turn set to pulse and beimg modulated by the lfo or noise. These are the areas that make the Prophet special - and are exactly the areas where software still isn't the same
It’s called the Nord PIANO 5. It’s not a synth even though it has some synth sounds. At the same time, I agree it’s overpriced. Nords piano samples are pretty amazing though
As others have explained, you are factually wrong on the osmose. You cannot do what it does with other synths by attaching expression controllers. I'm not the type to get offended simply because I spent money on something, or by an opinion. You can like it or dislike it, or think it's gimmicky or say it's not useful enough to justify the price. We can disagree. But you are literally incorrect about what it does. Play one. Or read the manual correctly. You have apparently misunderstood some of its functionality.
I only have to defend my Nord Stage 4. What's bad about the mod wheel placement? This way the hence shorter keyboard fits into more tiny cars. And the Organs and Pianos sound 70s? What a cheeky insult! 🤣
I don‘t agree to the Prophet-6 on the list. Yes, 4 octaves are not enough. Therefore the P6 *module* and any >=5 octave keyboard are not only cheaper but also more rewarding. Soundwise the P6 is the Swiss army knife of today‘s analog poly synths. I don‘t agree to the P10 either. It‘s easy to claim that VST synths sound as good as the expensive hardware - but it‘s not true. I used the U-he Repro-5 for years, and yes, it sounds fantastic. Then I bought a real P5, and it sounds not only different, but on a very high level even better.
You also have Softube Model 80 ;) Uhe Repro made me sell my Prophet 6 since I was able to Recreate the sounds I liked in the Software version even when it is not a Prophet 6 Emulation. Many synths can do similar sounds and As soon as you start recreating Your favorite Sounds and close down the Cutoff frequency the differences are even smaller and to find a huge difference Between synth A-B You will have to test the synths to the extreme which are not useable in a context of a song and makes the test flawed.
This is such a subjective topic, manufacturers are free to set a price, consumers are free to pay the price. The value proposition might not be there for one individual, but that’s still subjective. Overall the flagship synths go for similar price points, and the cheaper alternatives don’t have identical specs. Your feature comparisons are valid, and we could argue on if a nord is an instrument over a waldorf being more of a feat of sound engineering. As always, I appreciate gaining insight in your perspective, it definitely helps me balancing cost v.s value! 👍 Now excuse me, im mesmerized by the beautiful sounds of a prophet-10. It’s simple, expensive, limited and blows everything else I own out of the water once it’s in tune after five minutes of warming up. ) ;)😊
Someone else asked about the Muse and the Poly Brute 12. I haven't played either of them, but obviously I've seen the demos. I probably would include them on a list like this, although the Muse is not a bad value compared to classic analogs like MemoryMoog and Jupiter-6/8. I did say in the video that all the synths on the list sound good, it's really a matter of whether they are a good value compared to the alternatives. Do we really need two more VCO synths to choose from? Maybe, maybe not, but more choices may help push prices lower, and that's good for us as musicians. Thanks for the comment.
In fairness,as I understand it from k browns vst, the crumar spirit has a fairly unusual architecture. I'd sooner blow boutique cash on that rather than a minimoog I kind of agree with the Osmos . I got a 2nd hand cme xkey and and a Waldorf Blofeld for about 300 quid which scartches my mpe itch.
Many of the synths you mentioned are intended for professionals and not amateurs. I'm sure Ariana Grande's keyboard player would rather play on a real minimoog, Oberheim or prophet than a behringer.
You hurt my soul mentioning Nord but I have to agree with you on all points in the video. These prices are unholy for what you are getting. With VSTs and software being really good or close it makes the attraction less tenable. I am a hardware guy to my being but there are certain things that I am willing to sacrifice for the sake of price and practicality. Also with the big three their workstations can replicate the sounds of analog and the boutique boards and once you run those tones through guitar pedals, preamps and or hardware compressors no one will notice the difference not to mention you will have a cheaper price point with far more features. For 5k I need an 88 fully weighted graded hammer action workstation otherwise pound sand 😂
Oy. I saw the presenting subjective opinions as objective fact, much bias towards Behringer, recommendations to buy a Hydrasynth at every turn (instead of the audio rate-mod matrix and SSI2140-endowed 3rd wave or the uniquely-voiced Osmose; the synths are nothing alike IMO) and criticisms levelled at the Prophet 6’s keybed - a synth released in a different time where you couldn’t sell an instrument for over £2,000 - people forget that pre expensive mainstream synths are a recent thing. I didn’t find myself agreeing with most of the video, sorry ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
That's okay. I appreciate your opinion. I never really thought I had a bias towards Behringer- I just thought they have affordable alternatives. In one of my videos, I talk about the only piece of Behringer gear that I ever purchased, and I returned it a few days later. I appreciate your comment.
Yeah, I did consider slotting in the Moog 1, but since I had the MiniMoog and only 11 slots, it didn't make the cut. It sure is expensive for what it is. Thanks for the comment.
Why anyone would pay multiple grand for an Oberheim fart box is completely beyond me. However, I think you are wrong with Nord. "It's a bit 70s", yes, that is what a lot of keys people are looking for. The other companies are gradually trying to compete with Nord, its kinda of a slow process i.e. Yamaha.
You remind me of an analog vintage synth addict with psychiatric issues that finally found the right mix of benzodiazepines and betablockers and can now thing clearly, without the fog of synthlore. I respect you for your fertile reasonable mind.
I think many of us are addicted to gear lust and buying gear. I find I have to sit on my hands a lot to avoid making costly purchases. Thanks for the comment.
I got a breath controller for my DX7 in the 80's. Slobbered on it a few times because I bought it...total gimmick. I guess in my younger, inexperienced mind, I was going to turn my DX into a saxophone. It did teach me to turn a side-eye to other gimmicks. Waving your hands around a D-Beam doesn't make you look cool. You look like a seal who was just handed a dead fish.
Thanks for an enlightening and entertaining overview of these old synths. You are quite right most of these synths have beeen superceded by better and cheaper alternatives. And let's not forget that it's possible to get great results from budget kit with a little skill and imagination.
Thanks for that. I did make sure to say at the end of the video that, I believe they all sound good, and I truly believe that. I can see them being a real asset to a studio. I appreciate your comment, sir.
7:12 Software? Yes? Hardware? No (not at least the filter FM)! The only budget synths I know that have good-sounding filter FM are the MicroMonsta 2 and the Waldorf Blofeld.
Gonna join in on the Osmose defense fund here, Jeffrey. It's something you really need to play to understand, and it also helps if you can really play. It's not a gimmick in any way. It's a bonafide new kind of instrument. I've had mine for about a year. Even as a classically trained piano player, the minute I laid hands on the Osmose, I knew instantly that this was a different animal entirely. The poly AT is just the beginning. The sensitivity on the keyboard is like 200% more exact and detailed than anything I've ever played. It emotes literally the minute you touch the keyboard. Playing ensemble sounds becomes an entirely different experience, and I'm sorry, but plugging a pedal in (or even using a D-beam, ribbon or the like) is not the same as having that level of control under the fingers of a skilled player. And the pressure glide feature allows me to convincingly play phrases like a string player, and I've had multiple talented string players (guitarists, cellists) express amazement at what I can do with it. And I consider myself somewhat of an expert with a pitch wheel. The MPE arp is also a game changer that needs to be PLAYED, not read about. Magic when connected to analog gear. It's just not a keyboard you buy on specs. You lay your hands on it and if you get it, you get it. If you don't, you don't. It's also just beginning to evolve and will improve vastly over the next few years. AND, that said, I'm also a big proponent of pure analog and just received my Moog Muse after a month-long wait and it is EPIC. Really, almost better than the hype would've led me to believe. With my Rev2 and Osmose (and a Crumar Seven for all things electro) I'm stacked beyond any dreams I had as a teenager when I bought my first synth.
You don't need to play it to understand the operational principles. You can assign pitch and mod wheels to do what it does.
You talking about feelings, not what can be accomplished.
I appreciate what you are saying, thank you for your thoughtful comment.
Totally agree.
@@matthewgaines10 pitch and mod wheels do not operate on a note by note basis. The Osmose is about putting control in the finger that's playing the note. It's like a cello or violin ... you are in control of the dynamics and pitch on an ongoing per-note basis throughout the duration of the note.
No wonder Behringer is cleaning up
About the Osmose; it sounds to me you never palyed one. And if you did, you probably have a very 'piano' or 'keyboard' aproach to synthesizers. When I was 16 years old or so, played the piano for a while but also guitar and flute, the piano started to feel ridged, constrained. In my mind I made up an instrument that would not only respond to how 'hard' I hit the keys, but also to what I did afterwards. Like with a guitar, violin or flutes and brass and such. Push on it, wiggle it, and also the position of my finger on the key would make the sound change.
Now, many years later, I own a Roli Seaborard Grand and an Osmose. And yes, they make the keyboard concept much more expressive in the sense that they use the power of the synthesizer much more direct, in a very tactile way.
Though I can play simmilar sounding melodies with all kind of expressions on an old Roland SH2000, the control is much, much more precise on the Osmose. It is so sensitive, i did have to adapt my playing technique. (same goes for the Roli, but in a very different way).
So the Osmose is far from a 'gimmick', I think any musician should be able to see and hear that. It cannot be your thing of course, due to what you expect from a synthesizer. I expect it to be the most expressive instrument ever invented, because it gives you the possibility to play ALL the soundshaping aspects of a sound, not just the ones that physics happens to give.
About the breath controller. I also have that and I used it together with a Yamaha VL70m. Amazing, really. I sold the VL70m because I needed the monay but also because it sounded to much like 'the real thing', and then is useing the real thing not the better thing?
A synthesizer is not by definition an instrument to solve all kind of praktical issues, like don't have to throw around heavy piano's and orgens when you having a gig. It can replace those things because it is much more than these instruments (though a good piano is a thing on its own, but you can't utilize that in pop music becuase the nuance will be lost in the proces), nevertheless a synth is a thing on its own and Expressive E has done a great job opening the heart of the synthesizer within the keyboard paradigm.
One of the great things of the Osmose is the delicacy. If you lay a finger softly on the keys, the sound is already there, very soft. When you start to press the key further in, the sound swells, like you blow harder on a saxophone, but not with a saxophone sound. And with the same preset, when you hit the key fast, the sound with be fast and plucky. Your fingers become the envelope generator for every single note you play....!
So play an Osmose, and you'll know what I mean. Probably you still won't like it, because you have your way of playing and what you need from your instrument, but a gimmick it will not be anymore.
Kind regards,
Allard Krijger
As someone who plays a wind controller I too find the Osmose to be a gimmick. And just wait until it needs repair. 😏
@@HazeAnderson a synthesizer is much more than any wind instrument. It has this thing that people think it is a keyboard instrument
It is not.
Osmose is a version of a keyboardinterface that does the synthesizer much more justice.
And all instruments need care and attention and repair at some point in their live. Synthesizers in their present form are the newcomers, and there are no stradivarius synths yet. But then, the vast majority of all musical instruments brake down and are replaced.
@@fraknoise8523
People who play synthesizers know how to get the same expressiveness a traditional keyboard.
@@matthewgaines10 I don't think we are talking about the same thing here. A piano cannot play in between the notes, cannot slide, kan not alter its volume curve. You can with a synthesizer and controllers, but you loose the connection, it gets more mechanical than say playing a string, a wind instrument or the Theremin for example. The Osmose brings all thise things directly to your fingers. And more.
But I guess this turned into a discussion not about musical expression itself, but what we think certain instruments can do and how they can sound and which array of musical expression belongs to which instrument. In my point of view a synthesizer is not a keyboard instrument. It can be controlled by a keyboard and then it does keyboardy things. It can be controlled by a windcontroller (I used to have a WX11, very nice to play with) and then it does wind instrument things. The Osmose opens up the keyboard paradigm, and gives you new expressions if you are willing to put the time and effort in to sort of redefine how you play keys. On youtube you see a lot of demo's with it by people who have it for a week or two, and you can hear and see they don't master it yet, or it is a first encounter and the new language needs to develop. Most of them play keys very well, not everyone has a feeling for the Osmose first time playing. Similar with the SOMA Terra, also an MPE instrument. When I played that one for the first time I thought it was sort of easy to do. After a month I realized I was just starting te scratch the surface. With the Osmose I had a similar experience, though a bit easier because it is a keyboard after all.
But a synthesizer with a standard keyboard does not have the same musical scope as the Osmose. No matter how good the player is. It is very different.
The 3rd wave is not analog. It does have analog filters, but the oscillators are digital. It's a perfect recreation of the PPG Wave plus more. Glad I got mine in 2022 for $3800, I knew they'd go up in price. Still more than I paid for my PPG Wave 2.2, but good luck finding one now for under $10k.
The PPG sound is so unique and beautiful.
It's a wavetable synth.
I own five of these keyboards and still feel entertained 😆.
I appreciate that. I did make sure to say towards the end of the video, that I think they all sound good, and they do. You're a lucky guy to own five of them. Thanks for the comment.
I won't beef about this list.
How dare you poo poo on my favorite synthesizer. I will politely tell you why you are wrong. It is because I am right. And you made my favorite synthesizer cry. I hope my silly comment didn't waste your time.
LOL, you did not waste my time. That's hilarious. Thanks for the comment.
11:34 I love my Hydrasynth Explorer, but the problem is that some conditions like the sync mutants give it severe aliasing. It doesn't help that it runs on an underpowered DSP meant for digital pianos. The Modwave has way more voices and might be a better alternative to the Hydrasynth. The cool thing about the 3rd Wave is that it has FX per part! It even lets you use oscillators as mod sources.
Thanks for sharing the info.
@@JeffreyScottPetro You're welcome. Also, you should have focused on the Iridium keyboard instead of the Quantum. And I heard that the Osmose has a playing experience like no other. Not to mention, the revolutionary sound engine and new firmware update.
Yup , hydrasynth is cheap and nasty sounding, sometimes thats cool but, Argon 8 blows it away with crystal clear sound. Can't mix them together
For every synth you mentioned in your list as the video went on, I was shouting "Yeaaah! A-MEN!" and I can't stress enough on how much I agree with you. I also think you were Veeeery polite on the criminal against humanity that calls itself "Crumar". =BUT= When you mentioned the Osmose AND in Nr.1 position.. .. all my excitement crumbled away in oblivion. So, I questioned inside: "How can a musician be so intelligent to nail every overhyped/overpriced synth so perfectly, so spot-on and STILL make such an awful mistake about the Osmose?" I'm guessing the answer is what other people have already suggested. You simply haven't played with one. It shows, it's the only explanation that fits Logic. So, yes, I totally agree with every synth you mentioned, but in Nr.1 I would place something else, for example, the new Polybrute 12..
Thanks, I appreciate your comment.
You really need to play the Osmose to understand it... a pedal, mod wheel, or front panel knob (all global) can't do what each finger can do individually on the Osmose. Like the ROLI you can fade notes in finger by fnger (attack and release times become a note-by-note performance choice), but unlike the ROLI you can also play quickly, in chords, and in tune. The depth and feel of the aftertouch on the Osmose is amazing... nothing at all like the Hydrasynth, ROLI, or Ensoniq's poly AT (I own them all). The Osmose is definitely not a gimmick... it's the most expressive keyboard controller yet made.
I agree with you in the main and I like your videos. On the Osmose though it's not Polyphonic Aftertouch it's MPE which is much better than Poly AT. It's a totally different thing.... and a totally different level of expression, much more than what you could do with a pedal. I tried one at Superbooth and the control you get is totally immense way beyond a Hydrasynth Deluxe(Which I own) . The built in sound engine isn't great and that's what has put me off me getting one. I agree with you on the point how much do we actually need these things.... I had a Roli a few years back and I loved it great fun to play. It went faulty and I had to send it back to get repaired. Over than time period I just got out of the habit of using it and when it came back I used it about 3 times in 6 months. I sold it..... I kind of regret it though
I appreciate your thoughtful comment, and that you didn't personally attack me like other folks. I understand MPE, and I do recognize its unique attributes. On "how much do we really need these things" I believe we agree. I can see the attraction for some folks. I have played the Roli, and it was interesting. Thanks for the comment.
@@JeffreyScottPetro I’m sorry to hear that you’ve experienced personal abuse, I don’t personally understand why people feel the need to behave that way. Unfortunately if you are going to make any kind of video that contains any kind of controversy that’s going to happen, unfortunately that’s the way of the world. I’ve had it many times for playing Keytar which is apparently considered controversial…..
Most of these synths are niche instruments. Not a huge market for them. That's why they so expensive. Economy of scale. I paid $1050 for a Roland S-10 sampler in 1986. That's basically $3000 in today's money. So in my view, the Waldorf is a freaking bargain.
I have yet to hear a good reason why people would shell out more than a couple hundred bucks for a monosynth. I mean, what is the point?
It's puzzling to me, and I'm just not a fan of mono synths. Thanks for the comment.
Hi Jeffrey. I appreciate your honest opinions on these synths and keyboards and agree with the majority of what you say.
Nord are Swedish, so they're always going to be expensive.
Moog Minimoog is just ridiculous pricing. It's not like they're made in the USA anymore, just assembled from pre-filled circuit boards made overseas. Their new flagship poly is 3\5 of the price of the Minimoog for crying out loud!
The 3rd waveis also a silly price. Behringers version will probably be in the same ballpark as the UBXA or, more likely, less. I'm on the fence about the Osmose. My cousin has one and I'll reserve judgement 'til I play with that. I can say I don't like the look of it - the way the keys are, it looks like it has a missing cover plate.
Behringer takes a lot of heat, but price is the bottom line for me. I have quite a few of their products, but I also have some classics that I love.
When I was a teenager I could afford one synth and a tape machine, until I got a Polysix for my 18th birthday and I felt like a king. Then I got a Mirage and I felt like king of the world 😀
Today I have so much more, thanks to pension drawdown and it cost less than what I had when a teenager.
Crazy times!
Cheers ✌️
#1 wrong, Osmose has in built synth with 24 voices, full MPE and at 1/2 or 1/3 of the cost of other synths on the list makes this below the minis at triple the price etc... I also have a lot of synths and the sound from the in built Matrix of new MPE synths amazing, is my fav synth at present.
Main problem is only 49 key version ...
Nice new theme song.Totally agree Hopefully it would allow manufacturers to recognize that we expect a synclavier or K 250 in a DX5 at the original Casio price in todays world or cheap memory and cost reduction.
Thanks for the comment.
Wow! There should be more of this kind videos! Agree 100% with everything you said! Thank you!
Thanks for your support, I appreciate it.
Motor synth is priceless... no other synth like it on the market. A sound like no other synth. Takes time to master because this synth has depth.
I agree with your assessments here, especially on the analog synthesizers. For me, the biggest issue is with the price, as you mentioned. Don't get me wrong, the Moog / Oberheim / Prophet synthesizers played a massive role in music history, and I love those 70's and 80's sounds, but paying $3000-$6000 for equipment that sounds decades old isn't appealing to me, or a wise financial proposition given that I'm not a millionaire.
Generally speaking, though, I think that the hardware synthesizer and workstation manufacturers are spending too much time replicating old sounds in their new, expensive keyboards. It's 2024, and there are a lot of software synthesizers capable of new, excellent sounds. I've been hoping to get those new styles of synthesis in a workstation (because I love the workflow of workstations like the Kronos X), but that hasn't happened yet.
We're on the same page. Thanks for the comment.
I think you are spot on! (except for one). I have experience with a number of these instruments, or have researched heavily from objective user reviews, etc. Yes, the Piano 5 is a head-scratcher for the price. Not even organ sounds (although I *think* you can add sounds, but with no drawbars? And no mod wheels? No way. I would rather have a Linnstrument than an Osmose for a more expressive tactile experience with an instrument. The OBX8 has some serious limitations for such an expensive synth, including a lack of controls, and a very poor arpeggiator, and I came to the conclusion that it was those tired sounds I would be playing on it mostly anyway and getting it to fit in the mix is more difficult. The GForce Oberheim software plugs are really quite surprisingly good. Prophet 10 - maybe would consider if added features and stereo. Two others I think are overpriced for the value: Moog One, and the Montage M8 - the latter due to the lack of true workstation capabilities, albeit a great board on other fronts. OK, the one I disagree pretty sharply on is the 3rrd Wave. This as a remarkable and very musical instrument, backed by some of the best customer support you can find. Sounds fantastic, flexible, great UI with near knob-per-function control, 4-part multitimbral and sequencing, now some limited sampling capability - a beautiful Prophet-style filter, plus a pretty credible state variable digital filter, mixes very well, 4 assignable outputs, good build quality, etc.. Check out Miles Away's reviews. Agreed that a lot of the loaded presets weigh toward the wavetable textures but you can quickly come up with beautiful hybrid/VA sounds. The FX are just icing on the cake and are indeed better than many boards with built-in effects. It's a keeper for me and I do not think I overspent at all.
That's interesting. Thanks for the comment.
This guy is great, he's simply applying some logical order in this industry, where those highly overpriced new keyboards have no sense and place, by observing their features against price.
I have workstations of those 'three great brands', whose features turn the face of any of these devices pale, being far cheaper. Any used or new Yamaha Modx, or Fantom or Nautilus for example, or a Kurzweil, even a Krome sounds great and have many more features, and great tactile screens...
Thanks for the comment.
I mostly agree with this lisy, especially on Nord, whose popularity baffles me. I slightly disagree on the Osmose, which tries to make the keyboard experience more like the very organic experience of using a string or horn. For a piano, it's too short and not ideal, but for a keyboard player looking for a violin or guitar experience, it feels natural in a way that traditional controllers would not. Interestingly, in the 1970's , Yamaha had the "wiggle" feature on some high-end combo organs. I found it to be surprisingly natural and intuitive, and I've always been disappointed that it never became more widely adopted. And the internal sound set is also (rightly) biased towards encouraging these types of simulated acoustic lead lines. Finally, the price is comparable to controllers like the Roli Seaboard, whch are inferior in almost every way and don't even include internal sounds. So I don't think it's overprced for what it is.
I also disagree to some extent on the Quantum. Yes it's expensive compared to a Hydrasynth, to Serum or even to a Waldorf Iridium Keyboard. But it's beautifully made and engineered. It's one of the most versatle instruments on sale, and can make sounds that almost no other instrument can. If you're a sound designer or soundtrack artist, it can be easily worth the money. I own a Quantum Mk 1, and I'm very happy with it. My only real complaint is that the audio path is pure stereo---unless you use the single analog filter. This forces it to mono. The instrument splits it back and simulates stereo again, but it's really a terrible omission on an instrument in this class, and they kept tis serious flaw and didn't fix it on the Mk 2. Still, the display, controls, design and sounds are so compelling that I find myself comng back to it again and layering it with my more mainstream workstations and synths. OS upgrades to the Mk 1 have given it 16 voices and most of the features of the Mk 2 (except for the MPE keyboard), so you might consider a used Mk 1 to save some money. Think of it like a used Porsche.
Interesting about the Yamaha wiggle feature you mentioned. It sounds familiar. Circa 1984 I entered the Yamaha Electone Festival. My memory is fuzzy, but we played a three manual Yamaha Electone organ, and the top manual had synth sounds, and I think it had the wiggle feature. Thanks for the comment.
While I can't agree with most of the selections, there is definitely value in undervalued synths. I'd flip this around, my top 10 undervalued/attractively priced: DSI Morpho desktop, DSI Tetra desktop, MKS-50, A-Station/K-Station, JX-08, Prologue 8, Take5/TEO5, ESQ-m, Reface DX, Minifreak.
Luckily these are all waaaayy out of my price range and so I can breath easy.
bold video in a land where many just shill for free gear on youtube.
The list price on the original Korg M1 was $2100.
Yeah, I have a Virus KC, which I bought used for $1200 about ten years ago. So glad I bought that and not a Nord Lead. The Virus is an absolute BEAST of a synth.
Waldorf seems expensive for the US market, but they might be paying high export fees/taxes because Waldorf is reasonably priced in Europe.
Contrast that with Australia where imported electronic instruments amongst other things are expensive.
As an experimental musician, I have never been drawn to expensive synthesizers. I purchase instruments that help define my sound, and most of the synths I have purchased over the years are from the used market, although not all of them. Technology has made some ground over the years, but not enough to shell out thousands of hard earned dollars for old technology repackaged into a new and improved, so the manufacturers claim instrument. How many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop, the world may never know.🤓
Three.
@@PetersPianoShoppe That's what the old commercial emphasized, but what is the analogy here really, when we are talking about synths?
There are no bad Keyboards. There are no bad Synthesizers. Only bad Synthesizer and Keyboard players!
Wow! This is the first time that I hear an analysis where I can't find any illogical statements. I once owned an original OB-8, an ARP Odyssey, a Roland D-50, a Yamaha DX-7, a Korg PS-3200 and a Moog Source forty years ago, got rid of it all and, to this day, still regret it. Would I go out and buy an OB-X8 or a reissued Moog Model D or a Korg PS-3300? Are you kidding me??? At those prices? I would buy a great controller and then a bunch of great software synths.
I have two episodes coming that talk about the Moog Source. It's a colorful synth. Thanks for the comment.
Loved the Nord roast! ;D
In a tangential league, perhaps the Nautilus should have made it into the list. Not sure if the value for money equation works for it being a handicapped Kronos in 2024... don't get me wrong it's still a great workstation but I believe the Montages and Fantoms to be ahead, I think it's better to get a second hand Kronos.
Totally agree on the Nautilus. The best thing about the Kronos was the Organ engine. The Nautilus still has it, but they stripped away the sliders, so now there are no drawbars, making it much less useful. It doesn't even boot faster. Be careful with a used Kronos, though. They're rather fragile and a lot of them have problems, so try before you buy.
@@geoffk777 they can take my kronos 2 from my cold dead hands
Yeah, I just don't understand the Nord attraction, especially at those prices. Thanks for the comment.
Okay, let me list synthesizers and keyboard that are not over-hyped or overpriced:
Korg Nautilus
Roland RD-2000
Roland JUPITER-X/Xm
Roland JUNO-X
Roland SYSTEM-8
Roland JD-XA
Roland SH-4d
Korg Prologue
Yamaha Montage M7
To put it simple, if you buy a Korg, Roland, or Yamaha, you won't be tricked or ripped off.
Why are Nord keyboards so popular with touring musicians - is it the build quality?
I agree with some of your list. My only guilty item is my Oberheim X8. However, this was probably the most instantly gratifying putchase in a keyboard I have ever made. Is it new technology? No but $5k in terms of what these things cost in dollars when they came out is really nothing. Tom Oberheim is the last of the early synth makers still alive. I bought my Moog Voyager back when Bob himself introduced it. With the slew rate upgrade it sounds extremely close to the Model D, and has way more featuree. 5k for the Model D seems high, but look at what Moog was asking for a Moog 15!
The Sequential Dave Smith stuff, I am on the fence with. Mostly because there seem to be several competing products and I am not sure which one is the better choice. I already own a Prophet 08. The bigger problem overall, is finding music that puts these great instruments to use. Maybe I need to completely get guitar players out of the picture.
Interesting, thanks for the comment, sir.
expensive is relative
The whole thing is his opinion, so of course it’s subjective
what are your thoughts on the new poly 12 ? or the muse?
I haven't played either of them, yet. Obviously, I've seen/heard the demos, and they seem like more of the same to me. Two more ANALOG synths with lots of flexibility abnd they sound good for what they are, but nothing I need. I do think they, like many other current analog synths, will put even more pressure on classic analogs like: MemoryMoog, Jupiter-6/8, and modern analogs. More competition is always good for us as musicians price-wise. Thanks for the comment.
The Roland Jupiter-80 has dbam technology already
Osmose defense. First, its certainly one of the most innovative mpe synths+controllers out there. Its also a different kind of instrument that adapts to a keyboard player/style so its "familiar" but also unique. Its not just a ribbon type mpe controller like the Continuum, or a sponge pad like the roli. MPE controllers come in all type of designs, but the Osmose is very unique. It also has the Eagan Matrix synth built in and with the new update 2 they are going to simplify setting up patches for it because that thing is a beast to understand. I believe the osmose and Eagan matrix engine was used in Dune 2 and commissioned by Mr Zimmer himself. The Polyphonic AT osmose provides is nothing you can do with your pedals or knobs on a standard MIDI keyboard as each note responds to pressure and velocity on its own depending how you "wiggle" or move the key, independent from all other keys; You'd need 10+ pedals (for each of your fingers) and 10 legs/feet then if you are to command special instructions to each key, independently, using a pedal for example; in the osmose case, more than 10 to be honest because you will be playing more than 10 keys too, so there , even more complicated. Its also a different kind of AT. Something that is close IMO in terms of AT is the new Polybrute 12's AT, but that is also limited and lacks the sideways per key motion (pair the two though, you get the osmose feel with 12 analog oscillators on the Polybrute, amazing stuff). The Osmose does seem delicate to me, but thats just me, I could be wrong; Its not something id toss around or just dump in a keyboard bag and run. Saying that, there is a growing Osmose community that helps tend to fixes and things you can do. EE has been great at supporting their users too, and most fixes are easy to do. The whole keyboard comes off from the bottom so access to it is quite easy. I 'd say I 'd be comfortable replacing the rubber parts under the keys if I had to. Again, the Osmose isn't an just a piano or mpe controller on its own, its not a toy, or gimmick. It's its own instrument; It requires serious ownership to time and effort to learn it because it is honestly, spectacular.
I'll have to make a video of my 3rd Wave
A video wont change it's price.
The 3rd Wave is so good I bought both versions.
Have you tried the boog vs the reissue? I did. I wouldn’t praise both. 70% travel on some knobs does nothing on the boog. The reissue lacks low and mine had an issue so i don’t t think they will last 50 years either just like my other 2 recent moogs had issues.
I would ask the question would the boog out last me if it's not my only synth and I don't gig.
Most hardware is overratet, and most modular stuff is hipster AF.
I honestly don't get the inclusion of the Osmose. Others who actually own one have gone into reams of detail while it's misrepresented by you in your description, but I'll bring up another point - the price! It's $200 dollars cheaper than a goddam TE OP-1 Field! Given that there actually isn't anything out there that can do what it does (not pedals, not other poly aftertouch synths), it's $1700! That's also cheaper than a Hydrasynth Deluxe.
Entertaining video with some interesting insights. Regarding the Prophet 6, I think at the time, it was a highly anticipated synth because it was the closest you could get to owning a Prophet 5 and Yamaha had kindly given back the Sequential name to Dave Smith. So having the Prophet pedigree and being the first to have the reacquired Sequential Circuits name, many synth nerds were virtually drooling over the prospect. The 49 keys are fine for artists like Peter-John Vetesse, Matt Johnson and countless others, so not totally convinced with the idea it was a cost cutting exercise. I wonder if the Prophet 5 was already in the pipeline so the P6 had to have some "concessions" so it wouldn't compete directly with the P5. The black panelling being another.
Thanks, Steve, I appreciate your comment.
For ppl in the UK, can I recommend Korg refurbished - I got a SV2-S from them for nearly half price… and the D next to middle C was physically broken! It was unusuable! I thought I’d made a huge mistake!
However Korg were absolutely brilliant, I got a replacement a week later. I keep telling this story to ppl because I actually think their customer service was outstanding.
(Also I agree, why would you buy a Minimoog for thousands? I got my Behringer PolyD for a fraction of the price in a sale from Thomann online!)
You are way off. Plugs don’t get close to the Minimoog or the Prophet 10.
The Osmose is not so expensive for the noble ideas it has. And it also has nice sounds in itself. I am not buying it, but it still looks interesting.
I'd disagree about the Waldorf Quantum. There's like 5 sound engines in it. Can't think of many synths out there that can do audio rate modulation of wavetables.
the price of the mk2 is nutty. I've got a mk1 I bought new for around $3500. Powerful synth.
Any 8 voice monotimbral digital synth from the last 10 years that costs over €750 . Dont care how good they sound, should be at least 4 part multitimbral. And Swedish manufacturers are always overpriced, overhyped, and overdesigned.
If your crieteria is list of features for the price then yes, something like a hydrasynth looks better bang for buck. But for this example, as someone who owned it - it sounds like crap amd all the gazillion filter types or modulation options in the world aren't gonna help it sound good. But hey! It has many features so it must be better.
As for a synth like the Prophet 10 which i own, and have it side by side with uhe repro 5 - they are not the same, sorry. The vst can get close at some settings, but for extreme settings it's close but no cigar. Specially sounds that involve polymod. Think osc1 pulse width being audio rate modulated by osc2, which is in turn set to pulse and beimg modulated by the lfo or noise. These are the areas that make the Prophet special - and are exactly the areas where software still isn't the same
Haha... no skewering coming from over here.
Thanks. Appreciate the comment.
It’s called the Nord PIANO 5. It’s not a synth even though it has some synth sounds. At the same time, I agree it’s overpriced. Nords piano samples are pretty amazing though
As others have explained, you are factually wrong on the osmose. You cannot do what it does with other synths by attaching expression controllers.
I'm not the type to get offended simply because I spent money on something, or by an opinion. You can like it or dislike it, or think it's gimmicky or say it's not useful enough to justify the price. We can disagree.
But you are literally incorrect about what it does. Play one. Or read the manual correctly. You have apparently misunderstood some of its functionality.
I only have to defend my Nord Stage 4. What's bad about the mod wheel placement? This way the hence shorter keyboard fits into more tiny cars. And the Organs and Pianos sound 70s? What a cheeky insult! 🤣
If you like it, I can respect that. My best friend loved his. Thanks for the comment.
My Jupiter x destroys these keyboards
I don‘t agree to the Prophet-6 on the list. Yes, 4 octaves are not enough. Therefore the P6 *module* and any >=5 octave keyboard are not only cheaper but also more rewarding. Soundwise the P6 is the Swiss army knife of today‘s analog poly synths.
I don‘t agree to the P10 either. It‘s easy to claim that VST synths sound as good as the expensive hardware - but it‘s not true. I used the U-he Repro-5 for years, and yes, it sounds fantastic. Then I bought a real P5, and it sounds not only different, but on a very high level even better.
Thanks for the comment.
You also have Softube Model 80 ;)
Uhe Repro made me sell my Prophet 6 since I was able to Recreate the sounds I liked in the Software version even when it is not a Prophet 6 Emulation.
Many synths can do similar sounds and As soon as you start recreating Your favorite Sounds and close down the Cutoff frequency the differences are even smaller and to find a huge difference Between synth A-B You will have to test the synths to the extreme which are not useable in a context of a song and makes the test flawed.
This is such a subjective topic, manufacturers are free to set a price, consumers are free to pay the price. The value proposition might not be there for one individual, but that’s still subjective. Overall the flagship synths go for similar price points, and the cheaper alternatives don’t have identical specs. Your feature comparisons are valid, and we could argue on if a nord is an instrument over a waldorf being more of a feat of sound engineering. As always, I appreciate gaining insight in your perspective, it definitely helps me balancing cost v.s value! 👍 Now excuse me, im mesmerized by the beautiful sounds of a prophet-10. It’s simple, expensive, limited and blows everything else I own out of the water once it’s in tune after five minutes of warming up. ) ;)😊
Indeed. Appreciate your comment, sir.
8:24 OR you can get a Roland SE-02 if you don't like Behringer.
It has presets and more features but the filter doesn't really sound the same
Indeed. That is a very cool synth for the price. Thanks for the comment.
I was curious whether you would include Moog Muse on that list...
Too early to tell for me I think. I tried one at Sweetwater and it seemed great for what it is, but I need to explore it more.
Someone else asked about the Muse and the Poly Brute 12. I haven't played either of them, but obviously I've seen the demos. I probably would include them on a list like this, although the Muse is not a bad value compared to classic analogs like MemoryMoog and Jupiter-6/8. I did say in the video that all the synths on the list sound good, it's really a matter of whether they are a good value compared to the alternatives. Do we really need two more VCO synths to choose from? Maybe, maybe not, but more choices may help push prices lower, and that's good for us as musicians. Thanks for the comment.
100% agree and you missed a few like NINA by Melbourne Instruments.
I am on the fence wtih this one. I really need to try one.
Yep, it's expensive for what it is, but I only had 11 slots. Thanks for the comment.
Haha, i had many many synth. The prophet 6 is the only synth that stayed
I really like that one.
In fairness,as I understand it from k browns vst, the crumar spirit has a fairly unusual architecture. I'd sooner blow boutique cash on that rather than a minimoog
I kind of agree with the Osmos . I got a 2nd hand cme xkey and and a Waldorf Blofeld for about 300 quid which scartches my mpe itch.
Thanks for the comment.
Many of the synths you mentioned are intended for professionals and not amateurs. I'm sure Ariana Grande's keyboard player would rather play on a real minimoog, Oberheim or prophet than a behringer.
Every keyboard should have D-Bram 😊
LOL. Thanks for the comment.
You hurt my soul mentioning Nord but I have to agree with you on all points in the video. These prices are unholy for what you are getting. With VSTs and software being really good or close it makes the attraction less tenable. I am a hardware guy to my being but there are certain things that I am willing to sacrifice for the sake of price and practicality. Also with the big three their workstations can replicate the sounds of analog and the boutique boards and once you run those tones through guitar pedals, preamps and or hardware compressors no one will notice the difference not to mention you will have a cheaper price point with far more features. For 5k I need an 88 fully weighted graded hammer action workstation otherwise pound sand 😂
Oy. I saw the presenting subjective opinions as objective fact, much bias towards Behringer, recommendations to buy a Hydrasynth at every turn (instead of the audio rate-mod matrix and SSI2140-endowed 3rd wave or the uniquely-voiced Osmose; the synths are nothing alike IMO) and criticisms levelled at the Prophet 6’s keybed - a synth released in a different time where you couldn’t sell an instrument for over £2,000 - people forget that pre expensive mainstream synths are a recent thing. I didn’t find myself agreeing with most of the video, sorry ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
That's okay. I appreciate your opinion. I never really thought I had a bias towards Behringer- I just thought they have affordable alternatives. In one of my videos, I talk about the only piece of Behringer gear that I ever purchased, and I returned it a few days later. I appreciate your comment.
Moog 1
Yeah, I did consider slotting in the Moog 1, but since I had the MiniMoog and only 11 slots, it didn't make the cut. It sure is expensive for what it is. Thanks for the comment.
Why anyone would pay multiple grand for an Oberheim fart box is completely beyond me. However, I think you are wrong with Nord. "It's a bit 70s", yes, that is what a lot of keys people are looking for. The other companies are gradually trying to compete with Nord, its kinda of a slow process i.e. Yamaha.
You have to hear an Oberheim in person. It's up there with the Jupiter-8 in terms of "wow" factor. Just mind blowingly good.
Appreciate the comment.
You remind me of an analog vintage synth addict with psychiatric issues that finally found the right mix of benzodiazepines and betablockers and can now thing clearly, without the fog of synthlore. I respect you for your fertile reasonable mind.
😆
I think many of us are addicted to gear lust and buying gear. I find I have to sit on my hands a lot to avoid making costly purchases. Thanks for the comment.
I got a breath controller for my DX7 in the 80's. Slobbered on it a few times because I bought it...total gimmick. I guess in my younger, inexperienced mind, I was going to turn my DX into a saxophone. It did teach me to turn a side-eye to other gimmicks. Waving your hands around a D-Beam doesn't make you look cool. You look like a seal who was just handed a dead fish.
😅
I think that's case closed on the DX7 breath controller. You talked me out of it. Thanks for the comment.
Thanks for an enlightening and entertaining overview of these old synths. You are quite right most of these synths have beeen superceded by better and cheaper alternatives. And let's not forget that it's possible to get great results from budget kit with a little skill and imagination.
Indeed. Thanks for the comment.
🎉
Nobody needed this video 😂
Thanks for that. I did make sure to say at the end of the video that, I believe they all sound good, and I truly believe that. I can see them being a real asset to a studio. I appreciate your comment, sir.
7:12 Software? Yes? Hardware? No (not at least the filter FM)! The only budget synths I know that have good-sounding filter FM are the MicroMonsta 2 and the Waldorf Blofeld.
Get a used deal on a Pro 3 Or Novation Peak and you’re sitting pretty