Definitely think the D-50 is already a classic! I think the Hydrasynth will eventually become a classic as well. Playing it makes me feel the same way the D-50 did when I first heard it.
I agree on the Hydrasynth, but for some strange reason, I have a suspicion that only the 49-key one will reach classic status, not the Deluxe, I don't know why is that..
Beautifully designed and laid out, well built and a powerful engine (though in this day and age of DSP performance, i feel artificially limited to 8 voice polyphony). But ultimately uninspired by my desktop version, and it's on eBay (minus the dust its collected) after two years.
I sold my Waldorf iridium keyboard and my Roland system 8 and took the plunge on an Alesis andromeda. I opened it up and removed the boards and blew out the pots. I also replaced the screen. It is a “beyond belief” synth. I truly have lost a lot of GAS due to owning this Fantastic Synth!
i was expecting a list of current future classic keyboards. Maybe you can do one on keyboards made in the last 10 to 15 years that will be future classic keyboards
@@vjrei Agreed. I would argue that the Virus KB would be more classic. It's a beautiful, brown wood and red design with a smoother, more analog Virus B sound. More than anything the 61 key Virus KB uses the famous Fatar TP/8S keybed. Arguably the best synth-style keybed ever. It's a class A master keyboard that just happens to contain a Virus B. With the free DSP56300 emulators it can play any kind of Virus running on a $135 MiniPC. Of course it can play practically anything else virtual.
I think the only reason my main synth didn't make the list is that it still seems to be kinda rare. I have a Novation Super Nova Pro X keyboard synth. A pure beast of a synth with lots of knobs to fiddle with.
Yeah, i don't think they made many of the Pro X. I did consider it, and it will definitely be a future classic, but I only had 11 slots and I kept the list to mostly mainstream, well-known units. Thanks for the comment.
i like the way you think about these things, and the way you speak. i think your videos will grow in popularity from here! thanks for what you're doing; i'm loving it.
I learned FM programming on my DX7 in the 80s. I still have it, still program it and still use it on my albums. Oh, and it still has its original button battery!!
Awesome. It's crazy how some of those original batteries lasted three and four decades when they were only supposed to last five years. Not even lithium, amazing! Appreciate your comment.
The elektron Digitone keys is the best fm synth ever made I can’t get enough of it there is noting that sounds so good and ever the build to the strength of the build the knobs everything about it is flawless
@@mournblade1066 Those are classics. I also have a Fizmo. Yes, it's rare, but I'm not thrilled with it. People get it to do great stuff, but it should have been better engineered. I think Ensoniq had been bought, or was near being bought by a PC sound card interface company. They didn't care much about music making.
Where I live (Greece) ALL of the synths you talked about are considered classics already, except the Q. We consider them classics so much, that I myself really thought today's list would include contemporary synths (2014-2024) that you believe/wish/suspect will become classics, so, in a way, I was disappointed.. but I agree on your lists.
I'm going to throw the Korg Prologue in as a "well into the future" classic. I'm sure many of the synths mentioned currently have classic status? Another enjoyable video. Liking the channel.
What, no Kawai K4? I kid, but it was my first synthesizer back in the late 80s, and I still have a soft spot for it. I had a very long time away from keyboard synths, then got back in a few years ago and wondered what the heck happened to multi-timbrality. Anyway, in “ha ha only serious” territory is the Roland JD800. Would love to have one, but would need a spare room for that aircraft carrier. Thanks for the vid! :-)
I'm not a fan of the V-Synth, and I have no good reason to tell you why. I was envious of owners of the TX816, which was great for the 1980s, but software has made it somewhat obsolete. I don't think anyone really needs eight DX7's and perhaps they never did. One real DX7 is enough for me, and I have the Kronos with its FM engine and FM8. I was never interested in an Indigo 2, but I came very close to buying TI2. Then I purchased the Kronos. The Kronos, plus all the software I have, which I haven't talked about yet, but it's a lot, it seemed unnecessary to purchase the TI2 but it's a very nice synth. In a few months, I do a 180 and those new episodes start into all the software I own. Thanks for the question.
Comprehensive list Jeffrey, I would have been tempted to put either an emax I or II in there alongside the ESQ-1. My friend used to own both a Waldorf Q & XTK at the same time, ironically the XTK sounded a lot more analogue than the Q, he later sold the Q, I am still trying to persuade him to sell me his XTK, though the Q+ sounds amazing, I have never heard one in the flesh.
I wouldnt invest in old digital boards due to computer drive failures and possible breakdowns. My AKAI AX60 couldn't stay in tune, my Ensoniq VFX had erratic booting software issues. My Hammond XB2 hardware drive went with no replacement available. A classic to me is a keyboard with a unique sound only that forces a person to get the original, a reissue, clone or updated version. Great topic! I've never owned any of the boards you discussed but very interesting critiques! Subscribed.
Месяц назад
What's your take on the Casio CZ-5000? They were innovative, quite rare, sounded pretty good.
Take a look at my episode entitled "Older Bargain Keyboards" starting @ 7:15. I talk about the CZ-5000. In that video I say that I owned a CZ-3000, but I found an old studio picture and it was a CZ-1, very similar. I didn't own it long, because it wasn't for me, but many people love the CZ series and the CZ-5000 is the top of the line. Thanks for the comment.
As a SX-240 owner I can attest to what an epic synth this is. Super easy to edit, smooth and easy to mix, I like it along with the Teisco mono 60F, also a lovely mono!
I think the Rev2 will become a classic too! I know it was bagged heavily at start but now many have found a love for it's power and it's versatility with a hell of knob per function
In terms of synthe from the last 30 years, I'd add the Roland V-Synth and JD-800, and Korg Karma. The latter was later absorbed into the Oasys and Kronos, but I think it was the genuinely original component.
Interesting list. Very interesting. However, regarding samplers, there are definitely some samplers that have already become classics, besides the obvious ones you've already mentioned (Synclavier and Fairlight). Samplers from the late 80's and early 90's such as the Akai MPC60 (and MPC 60II), and MPC3000 as well as the E-MU SP12, SP1200, Ensoniq EPS16, and ASR-10 are highly sought after by many hip-hop/rap producers and command very high prices today. This is mainly because of the sound character they are known for. Even some of the later samplers from the late 90's and early 2000s are starting to creep up in prices, such as the E-MU E4 series rack samplers as well as the MPC2000XL and MPC4000. Many of these older machines have high grade components in their circuitry and they don't sound like the newer machines that are being built today. That's what makes them special. You want to know of a super rare and expensive sampler from the 80's? Check out the Sequential Circuits Studio 440. I personally believe many of these samplers I just mentioned have already become classics and some of them (notably the later more modern ones I've mentioned) will soon become classics a few years from now if they haven't already. BTW, I didn't mention this one earlier, but maybe I should include the Ensoniq Mirage, mainly because it was one of the first affordable keyboard samplers, or perhaps maybe even THE first affordable keyboard sampler, to ever hit the market.
How about the Korg MS2000? I'm also hoping that the Akai Miniak / Alesis Micron might also start to venture into classic territory for being a bit different but also having a pretty epic amount of sound for the money?
Congrats on finding an Easter Egg- it's not an error. I put one or more into every episode. In usually a movie reference. This one is personal, so most people won't know it. Only one other person commented about an Easter Egg so good job.
hi, one list i was thinkling about is hd recoreders/digital mixers from late 90' early 00's, best of a tech is at the tail of the history. let's say , they need to go up to 24/96 ?
@@JeffreyScottPetro i use two fostex d824's (16 adat's in and outs if needed if i used my minidsp boards) they go up tyo 24/96 and i can record 11hours inside each. in nowadays these are still very revelant imo. i payed one 50+shipping and the other 100+shipping, but i was spotting them and that was 10 years ago (prices dnt move much since, they go for 350 generally), they have midi in/ou/thru, and thus you can even record midi for later aranging.... i'm an audio electronician so my music prod stuff isd for me, i have nice mixers old school style for raw sound, but i would like to find a nice digi mixer with tghose kind of specs.... i guess i sould look in roland or yamaha...
I think the Roland Jupiter X will one day be a classic. As time goes by, and the cloud patches fade away, I think there will be a robust, fan run, patch database. Matriarch, Hydrasynth, Polybrute..... Doesnt matter, it will all be niche market though as AI will inject its fangs into 99% of the music consumed.
4 месяца назад+1
I think that the Oasys/Kronos heritage is understated at this time, probably because the platform still lives on in the Nautilus. The sounds may be today a little bit long in the tooth but the important thing was the concept and the huge R&D effort after it, probably starting with the Oasys PCI card. Korg used to boast that they wrote the book on workstations with the M1, but they also figuratively burned it with the Oasys/Kronos platform, forcing Roland and Yamaha to try and redefine what a workstation is with the Montages and Phantoms, coming close well after a decade.
Did you get the backlit display for the DX7? I installed one in mine about 3 months after I got it and it made all the difference in being able to see the patch on a dark stage. Seems like a strange omission from the factory.
I've actually mentioned both of those synths in other Episodes. For example, the CZ-101 is featured in an Episode entitled "More Older Bargain Keyboards." I even owned a CZ-3000 for a short time. Thanks for the comment.
So, I'm probably pretty biased (I'm relatively young and only got into synths about a few years ago), but I do think you might be underselling recent advancements by newer companies that aren't just trying to sell remakes of older synths. A list of recent ones that I think would be worth keeping an eye on as future classics would be the following: - Polybrute 12: Finally a flagship synth that's starting to get that channel pressure shouldn't just be an afterthought (pun intended). The new envelope design combined with the fulltouch keyboard is what pushes this over the line from being just another analog polysynth to actually innovating on what was already a solid and fairly unique synth design. The price here will likely ensure that these are relatively rare. - Expressive E Osmose: While its predecessor the Haken Continuum is ultimately a better design IMO, the familiarity and cost of the Osmose is likely going to help it spread to a wider audience. The arcane nature of the Eigenmatrix synth architecture will likely help contribute to its mystique and make it easier to find distinctive preset usage out in the wild, sort of like the DX7 before it. - Hydrasynth: while it's hard to point out any one thing about this synth that is truly innovative, this has been mentioned several times before by other people in the comment section, and for good reason. It's just a really well designed synth that isn't like any one synth before it. - Super 6/Novation Summit: it's honestly hard to say which one of these will become a future classic, if any. Novation Summit did the whole FPGA oscillators into Analog filters first, and the Super 6 needs to catch up in the firmware feature department IMO. (Lacking support for microtonal tuning is a big miss on something with such precise oscillators, IMO). - Access Virus: This is before my time, but I think you could argue that this is already well on its way to being a classic. I've heard people mention several times how they wish there were more synths out there with this level of flexibility.
No, U110 released after M1 in 1988, has barely any programmability, no filter , noisy output (leading to revised U20/U220), no reverb or sophisticated fx (compared to M1), small PCM ROM ,and earlier K1000 and later Proteus - even without filters - were better in every way. Even back then it was essentially alone being called a "sample player" and not a synth. (Different than a RAM sampler playback-only unit/expander like S1000PB, DPX1, DPM-SP, S700).
Remember having 5-octave Ensoniq and Kurzweill and it made me playing them by all night long! (USA, unlike Japanese, didn't deal with below 95 volts conditions!) In pandemia acquired Mojo and pedalboard, after that Nord and Seabord and also a 95's all ever praised Ex5, maybe one of revolutionary moments in industry of a great many synthesis and sounds and editions and controls and ribbon resources - less than 1000 dollars, but heavy! Perhaps facing as an ever distant future classic...
Among samplers Akai samplers are getting there I think. Triton racks are also becoming classics little by little. Access Virus is now getting from cult status to cult classic.
8:15 Hard disagree. The D50 is already a classic because Enya and other artists championed it. Also, it was one of the best-selling keyboards and paved the way for Roland's 80s and 90s workstationsions and sound modules, starting with the MT-32!!
Agreed. I'd suggest that the Virus KB might actually be the most desirable. Class A, master keyboard, original Fatar TP/8S keybed which is widely recognized as better than anything else. It also looks better than the C or TI although the Darkstar variant is cool. A number of people have argued that while a TI can be made to sound like the B or C, the pre-TI series came out of the box with a smoother analog sound. Look up the "Savage Machine" performance on RUclips. That's a KB.
@@jvburnes All the Virus synths are backwards-compatible. I have the Virus KC, and it can load all the patches from the Virus A and the Virus B. Oddly, it can also load some of the Vrus TI sounds (except for those with the "super-saw").
Andromeda is an exellent choice, I miss mine. Biggest issue will be the ASICS chips which are unavailable, so if theyngo bad you lose voices. Absolutely stunning synth though. I'd also say Roland V-Synth, as it is unique in the way it can manipulate samples (obviously the V-Synth GT and to a lesser extent VP9000 fall into this group). The Q is a good shout, though I would say the XTk is a better call as it is more unique - not a VA but a wavetable synth. Also, I've had a Q and a Q rack, and both had faulty encoders. The XTk I've had for years has always been spot on, so build quality would be a concern. Modal synths I think will be solid choices, I have a 002, and if I ever see a 008 I would consider selling a kidney to have the pair. Rare, designed by George Hearn and Paula Maddox, and genuinely special sounding. Also built with military grade components so you stand a great chance of it still working in 30 years. Baloran The River, never played one but these have rarity and podium points galore. Roland JD800 - great boards but it is the aesthetics that will put them into the 'drool' category. The red goo issue with the keys will drive rarity as many will have been written off. Jomox, anything really, but the Sunsyn is probably the one to have, if the Andromeda is on the list the Sunsyn should also be. Studio Electronics Omega 8 - they were the Rolls Royce of synths at the time. Going back in time I think the Roland W30 and Korg Prophecy also may become classics ahead of their contemporaries due to their connection to The Prodigy, and the MPC3000 due to its use by DJ Shadow. I could be here all night - I try to buy gear that will go up in value over time so I think about this stuff a lot! Great video, really enjoyed hearing your perspective, some synths on that list I would not have considered!
The andromeda is very expensive and already highly sought after. A good one is the EMU E4K which is a feature heavy sampler with a very high quality seven octave range keyboard attached, it has multiple outputs, dual FX card as standard, 64 note polyphonic, amazing Z plane filters, up to 128mb ram, fully editable with samples that are compatible with the EMU Ultra range and sounds fantastic. It’s the rack E4X in keyboard form and can be picked up for £200 upwards. It’s different from the later Ultra sampler range with better AD/DA converters and a wider stereo image. You’re welcome.
My own honorable mention goes to the first analog polyphonic synth I got to play. That was the Roland JX-8p. I first tried playing it in 1999, about 14 years after it was new. Most thankfully, this one came with the PG-800 programmer.
You’re not wrong, @@JeffreyScottPetro. Don’t ask me what concentration level I needed to reach to do so, but I had a JX-10 myself for about nine years, and I was able to figure out how to patch it from the front panel without the PG programmer. I got one when I got my 8P, but being separated from it was the mother of invention.
Another great episode Jeffrey! I was pleasantly surprised when you dropped the DSS 1. And if memory serves a big selling point was its’ SSM analog filter. But the thing was very klunky to use. RE: Samplers I do think there will be a niche collectors’ market of the higher end stuff like the E IV Ultra. But not across the board. I’m still shocked at prices the E-mu SP12/1200 command. Curious to get your take on the Kurzweil stuff as they seemed to really have a foot hold on the 90s/ early 2000s Is VAST something synthesists scratched the surface of and there’s more to mine there or was it a one and done architecture?
Kurzweil was a major player in the eighties when it came to sampling. Their ads for the 250 created hyper-buzz. Those that were around at that time probably remember the full-page ads with the waveform of a piano, and how they claimed it was identical. The planet circled the Sun a few times, and they didn't keep up technologically, but certainly legendary for the time. Their VAST technology was interesting, although complex, and they did some cool things for musicians that were visually impaired. I've never owned any K gear, but I have played the K250, and it sounded fine, but not what I'd call exceptional, especially for the retail price.
No you definitely haven't wasted our time. It's again a polarizing list. One correction is to be made: Whenever I turn on the Andromeda, it's always out of tune. These are definitely no DCOs.
Totally agree that Waldorf Q made your list - even today, sounds current and innovative. Would suggest the EMAX Ii as a possible classic sampler - something about the tonality and presence is difficult to describe. Finally, would suggest the Access Virus TII as a future classic.
Chef's kiss on the main list, but a couple quibbles with the supplementals - your criteria and future classics are spot on (especially glad that my beloved ESQ-1 made the cut!) But I think you're wrong (or only half right) about the samplers. True - keyboard shaped samplers fell out of vogue, but they evolved into a category of current and future classics all its own: the Fairlight, Synclavier, and, I'd argue the Ensoniq Mirage eventually made way for the early MPCs, and the SP-1200. Future classic samplers will include the Akai S620, and, I believe, the Ensoniq ASR-10. As for truly modern classics, I'd point you to Elektron: their Monomachine is an example of a small volume early-ish digital object of lust that has already reached *stratospheric* pricing.
I have great memories in 1978 of playing the Octave CAT in the high school rock band (it belonged to the school). I felt that it was a great 2-osc. synth at the time. It was atop the Rhodes 73. Wish I picked one up for myself. I had the Roland SH-7 which I think was actually better though (on my "regret getting rid of list" video you posted) Any thoughts of the CAT in classicland?
I had forgotten about the CAT. If I remember correctly, it was a copy of the Arp Odyssey. I think I remember reading that somewhere. A guy where I worked decades ago owned one. I remember him playing the bassline for "Let's Hear it for the Boy" on the CAT while he played synth chord stabs on a Korg Poly61. I recall that it sounded very nice. I have always thought of it as a better option than a Realistic Moog MG-1, but you pay a lot more for the CAT.
@@JeffreyScottPetro Couldn't pull the trigger at $895 at our local music shop ($3,600 today!), but I lucked out picking up the Roland SH-7 & RS-101 strings for $400 from Guitar Center. That was a year after my very first board: the unimpressive Korg MS-10 (still have the receipt! :)) CHEERS!
Cool to see the nod to the ESQ1. I recently picked up one in showroom condition and replaced battery, upgraded OS, added sequencer expansion and loaded it up with sounds from my old cassettes! I will say that the plastic case is better built than the older metal. It’s a keeper and still one of the easiest sequencers to put down ideas on. Had a chance to pick up a DSS1 but just didn’t want to deal with the OS. The DW8000 has been on my shortlist for some time. I really like that one and it has been used by some artists over the years. Love the list. It’s funny to see how some of the ‘abandonware’ tech has gained traction over recent years. But wait? No RedSound Dark Star? (Just kidding).
I bought an AX80 brand new, and found it one of the most inspirational synths. I wasn't impressed with the build quality, as I found its case was very loose and floppy - I could lift one corner and the whole case would shift around. No Amount of screw tightening would fix it. As I gigged a lot I just couldn't gig with it. Sadly, I PX'ed it for a new Ensoniq Mirage. I still have my PolySix and (ahem) most of my EDP wasp in a binbag somewhere 😂 Fortunately, I have the Behringer Wasp which is a spot-on recreation sonically.
@@JeffreyScottPetro yes. It's true. The case got pretty much destroyed over time. I was going to get the guy from Analog Solutions (his name escapes me at the moment) to do his rack conversion, but he stopped doing modifications to concentrate on designing and building his own synths. That was about 15 - 20 years ago and it's been sitting in a black bag since then. It still actually works, but I'd need a couple of rolls of duct-tape to hold it together 😂 Maybe I'll make some kind of new case for it some day....maybe. Cheers ✌️
Well done and thoroughly enjoyable.I agree with the choice of the D50 although the D70 or any 76 or 88 key version of a groundbreaking keyboard with most likely be the one sought after.The eighties to 2000 was such a great period for music creation and creativity that I think future movies will ask to see these instruments present as we look at the lives of those who made the music and changed the world. The current era may have challenges associated with the involvement of AI preceded by soulless music which made it to the charts .If you watch Rick Beato you will understand those sentiments. Best wishes from the Caribbean .
The digital synths that will become classics will be iconic modern modulars. For example, I suspect a full mint condition modular of the entire set of Mutable Instruments modules will be very collectable. And full systems, like the Noise Engineering Shared System etc... will become very sought after. To me, those are the revolutionary synths of our time. Otherwise, I suspect it will be like in the past. Only the slightly rarer relatively top-end flagship analog or analog hybrids keyboards will become classics. So Polybrute 12, Groove Synthesis Third Wave, UDO Gemini, Oberheim OB-X8, Sequential Prophet 6 & OB-6, Moog Matriarch, reissues like the Korg Arp 2600 FS. And a few not quite so eyebleed expensive, though still pricey, like the Korg Prologue 16, Novation Summit & Moog Grandmother, Prophet Rev 2 (keyboard), Moog Sub 37. Maybe the love for the digital synths like the Hydrasynth keyboard will come back around eventually, in 30 years time, when the are seen as quaint. Like it did for the M1, D50. Never really happened for DX7s for example, which always surprised me.
Surprised to see the ESQ-1 on your list. It was groundbreaking as the first affordable workstation, but was quickly surpassed in sound quality by the M1. Since buying an ASR-10, my ESQ-1 has just been collecting dust and I sold it a few years ago to a higher price than M1's was selling. To me the ASR-10 is a classic sampler, with its fantastic effects, great workflow and workstation capabilities.
This was very fascinating. Some of these synths I had never heard of so thank you for the historical background. I agree from what I have seen there has not been any ground breaking synths in the last 14-25 years and the big three have all but given up the ghost with feeble rehashes or extremely neutered toy like reissues and I'm sure others will come for my head, however NONE of those will be classics even in 5k years, although grant it you may like them.
Even there are zillions of them, I think the MicroKorg is becoming a new classic-much like a pair of Converse sneakers: affordable and something almost everyone has owned at some point in their life.😂
11. The Ensoniq esq-1 has great analog filters, but I'll take an ensoniq sd-1 any day over an esq-1. It's got to be the best warm 80s synth I've ever owned with the best on board sequencer period. 10. The prophet vs is already a classic. You can thank Vince Clarke from Erasure for that. 9. The kawai sx-240 analog synth was my first synth. It is decent sounding when adding effects but not a true classic that everyone would lust over. It kind of reminds me of the korg poly line. I traded a pre slingerland red sparkle St. george 4 piece Buddy Rich kit with original Zildjian cymbals to guitar center in Hollywood like a dummy for it. That drum sets is now worth 15k or more. 8. Eric Persing did all the sounds for the d-50. That and the d-550 are already classics. 7. The Korg wavestation ex or ad if I remember correctly we're the ones I bought back then. 6. Behringer cloned the wasp, so it must be good. 😀 5. 80s guys who do 80s music like myself definitely know that the korg dss-1 is a bona-fide classic. Shhhh. Keep it a secret. 4. Alesis Andromeda is all the best engineers and synth designers getting together to build the best and most feature rich synth possible at the time. A solid investment into the future. It's only going to go up in value. 3. Dx7 is a classic but will always be available, so It will never reach crazy prices. The dx-1 is the one that has and will continue to command high prices. 2. Akai AX80 I know nothing about it, but I'm guessing it's analog, which is a warm cup of cocoa. 1. Waldorf q. I had the red Q+, and you are correct. It was great but unfinished. They fixed a few things, but it never reached the finish line as far as the OS goes. Yes, the display was terrible. Why was it so great then? Simple, their sound designer Jorg Hutter made some of the best German synth patches I've ever heard. A massive sound beast. A few I think will be future classics off the top of my head.. 1 best sounding synth that I lusted over for 5 years straight at the namm show is the spectralis 2. 2. Access Virus TI 2. 3. Ensoniq Sd-1 as mentioned before 4. Oberheim OBX8 5. Sequential pro 2 & pro 3 6. Baloran the river 7. Arturia Polybrute 12 8. Novation Supernova 2 Platinum 48 voice 9. Yamaha an1x 10. Studio Logic Sledge. Unfinished os but sounds great. 11. Dsi evolver 12. Emu Emulator 2 + sampler 13. Dsi prophet 10 reissue. 😊
Oh and if you haven’t checked out the 3rd Wave by Groove Synthesis, it now has sampling and has nods towards a number of the synths mentioned. It now includes VS waves, and people are loading in Mirage, D50, and other elements. It is a monster of a synth, expanding on PPG and VA, with an analog Prophet 5 type filter!
I wish I had a Prophet VS Rack. 🙂 This is not a reasoned thing. I know the asking prices (and selling prices) are far too much for an eight-voice synth. It's also not like it's an entirely new kind of synthesis. Heck, I even have the excellent Arturia software version. But there is something about the sound, and I think that it's nigh impossible to get a bad note out of it. It's nice to see that I have the module versions (let me include the Micro Q and Wavestation SR) of about half of the synths you list. They may not become classics because of different production numbers, but nowadays, people appear to have more money than space, and modules often command higher prices than their keyboard counterparts. A small note about the DSM-1: while it is the module version of the DSS-1, it's also crippled. I forgot how exactly, but there are videos out from people who know more about it than I do. The Moog joke is getting a bit old. I've been looking at some of the other hybrid synths (Roland JX-10; Kawai K3; Korg DW-8000; Waldorf Microwave) but I cannot quite fathom where they would end up, as either classics or not-quite-classics. People would probably want you to include the Groove Synthesis 3rd Wave, the Novation Summit, or the Arturia MaxtrixBrute/PolyBrute. But as you said, they're just regurgitating old ideas. Plus, I have a feeling that in 30 years time, they'll still be selling regurgitated analogue synths and PPG Waves. One exception _might_ be the Waldorf Quantum Mk 2. It's big, expensive, and has a ton of synthesis methods on board, all of which can be combined. The only thing that comes close is the Waldorf Iridium, but that's purely digital, and considerably less expensive. Not that purely digital is a bad thing, but people fawn over analogue filters and such.
The majority of artists didn't really program anything once FM synthesis came around. They basically used factory presets, because it was way too complex to program and they didn't invest the time to learn. That's why songs from the time sound EXACTLY out of the presets with no change other than reverb or delay.
Hi, when I´m playing around with my old gear Atari st/c-lab Creator, it mostly ends up with the Kawai sx-240 taking care off the bass, something about that sound i need in my songs. Got it realy cheep in the early 90s. I realy like Your channel, subscribed.
If a keyboard cannot be repaired without parting out another keyboard, maybe it will be trendy for a time, but it will not be a long term classic in my opinion. Most digital synths with low production fall into that category. There must be a sufficient number to make it viable for aftermarket parts. I have kept a few analog mono synths from the 70s because I believe they will most likely always be repairable.
I was thinking this was about fairly new synths that will be considered classics in the future. Plus more and more people use plug ins these days instead of actual synths, I don’t I’m old school 😂
How about a *real* list - that has keyboard manufactured today? Every list I see is old stuff. Of course they are classic. They are old. But what about the keyboards today. I think the Osmose and the Polybrute as well as the Schmidt will make the new list. What do you think?
@@JeffreyScottPetro I have officially subscribed! Great videos! I have an Access Virus KC, and that thing is an absolute beast! It can emulate pretty much any synth from the 1970 and 1980s and beyond. I also own an Ensoniq FIZMO, which is a truly weird synth. I absolutely love it!
Personally I believe people from old keyboards are expecting particular cult landmark patches, which they hearded in they favorite songs/ music. In general everybody want's CS80 because of only one "Bladerunner" patch. 🙂 Rest of keyboards can in interesting from technical point of view, but if they didn't have famous user, or featured on some classic hits, I doubt that somebody would like to re-discover them today for music production, and deal with their technical limitations.
I really like the Virus. It probably will be a future classic, and I'm sure it will make a future list. It's hard when you only have 11 slots. Thanks for the comment.
I feel like the more digital tech in a synth, the less likely it is to age well. This may be unfair, but “bit rot” is a real phenomenon that analog devices just don’t have to deal with. I imagine my Hydrasynth will still work in 15 years if it’s taken care of. But will I still be able to use its USB ports to connect to whatever DAW I’m using on whatever computer I’m using in 2040? Maybe, but hard to say how USB 2.0 will fare in a Thunderbolt 18 world. Everything is likely to be wireless, anyway! Will I still be able to update its firmware or manage its patches with the ASM app, or will ASM long since have stopped making Mac software - if they exist at all? Modern synths are often intended to be paired with a computer and/or internet connection, and that dependency means that more modern synths need to keep up with changes in technology in a way most classic analog synths did not. The synths will likely still work, of course - but they may be much harder to integrate into your 2040 studio than classic analog gear is today. Unless we can count on synth makers to still be making and updating their companion apps in 2040, we’ll have a lot of “well it kinda works but I can’t do X,Y, and Z with it because the app stopped getting updated in 2029 and Mac OS 27 no longer supports 32 bit apps.”
I think this is mainly a problem with the firmware and companion software not being open source and using open standards. Due to there not being any plans to backport MIDI 2.0 to DIN Midi, USB will likely outlive DIN Midi in people's studios. Thunderbolt is just a dead end IMO, as evidenced by governments forcing Apple to adopt open standards like USB on their products instead. If you really want to future proof a synth, you'd give it USB and Ethernet ports, and make the firmware and any companion software open source (with open source tooling for building and flashing the firmware to the synth). For an example of a synth that is ticking most of these boxes, see the MI Nina.
It's is probably worth noting that a fully digital synth is much less likely to want to open source their software as what they are selling is basically just a pretty box to run it.
Yeah, agreed. It’s hard to say how these things will go in the future, I guess that was my only point. Thunderbolt may be a dead end, but that doesn’t necessarily mean we’ll have USB 2.0 compatibility forever. It’s just something to keep in mind. My house is full of older digital devices that technically work but don’t get much use because they’re no longer supported and/or don’t still integrate into my other systems easily. 😁
The name might be if it weren't so true. I have tried just about everything to sit down comfortably to play. I was also annoyed that they added 3074 to the end. They could have at least chosen something cool like "2112" haha😁🎶🎹🎶Play On
Just go Ensoniq SQ-80, it's better than ESQ-1 and only a little more $$. We're approaching full circle with old, classic and re-issue. Newer synths are built like cheap toys or expensive tanks and soon will fade. Computers and DSPs can do analog and digital and eventually a synth will just be a large touchscreen with virtual knobs and sliders. I've repaired and refurbished enough hardware in my lifetime to see what's happening.
The DX7 already acquired that status, lots of kids have been using it since 2015 in the indies bands. Mac DeMarco overused it in every album of his. Indie folks in their 20s/30s have three keyboards in mind: MicroKorg, DX7 and Junos. Prices are reflecting it already unfortunately :(
just under 2 minutes, 30 seconds in, I immediately have two gripes... 1) classic should not have anything to do with how many units were made. that's rarity. if rare automatically suggested nomination for classic, then there'd be loads of unworthy synths in the discussion. 2) analog. 40 years have passed since digital synths entered the scene. any good sounding synth that's well over 20 years old should at least be eligible for consideration. WAIT!! update: expensive?!? how is that a consideration here?!? man... you are LOSING me FAST!! I'm sorry... I'm not a heckler or a naysayer. I'm really not. but I thought this was gonna have music-making at its core. perhaps you address all of this in the coming minutes & commentary. but, dang... I expected this to be about modern synthesizers. I guess that's my bad for assuming anything, but... but... I'm just not connecting with this. probably 'cause I wasn't into synths all those years ago. I appreciate older synths. I do. but...
The problem, as in most silly "discussions"/"debates"/"commentaries" online about synths (or anything else) is complete failure to define things (or agreement on a definition), so that there's no common language, no consensus on what you're even discussing. What is meant by "classic" here? Who knows , waste of time, I am a actually ashamed I lack the discipline to stop watching/commenting on ignorant fluff like this...
@@ShallRemainUnknown hahaha!! I know the shame of which you speak. it springs up from a bubbling brood of unbridled compulsion. & then it curdles on the surface like old milk in the noonday sun. (sorry, I got a little carried away there.) I'm sure this youtuber has some solid bits he's done. okay... I'm guessing he does. I couldn't bring myself to finish this particular vid. I managed to bridle the compulsion for this vid. but there have been many others wherein.... mmm... not so much. anyway... I enjoyed your rant. so, there's that. ;-)
@@doctorauxiliary LOL - poetic, melodramatic, and apropos! Yes, the channel is alright, I'm sure it will improve, good for him for getting up and doing it (certainly an effort, and I haven't done it). It's just that when you're hoping for insight, experience, and to learn something, a bunch of baseless opinions isn't fulfilling. Moreover, if those opinions are clearly not founded on a minimum of personal usage AND have numerous factual errors, then it gets a bit annoying. In any case, thanks for your thoughtful reply!
@@ShallRemainUnknown you have gotten right down to the business with this reply here. I'm sorry I didn't see it & respond sooner. thanks much for the exchange here. I appreciate it greatly.
True analog is an instrument in its own right. Digital instruments are best at what they do, realistic samples fm granular etc but trying to get digital to copy analog and say it's the same thing is like creating a plastic laser cut violin and saying this one sounds just like a stratavarius. I think anything digital will always be accessible and will never be a rare sought after synth. Because you can always run the programs in future hardware that's more powerful. Look at how flagship yamaha can do a dx7 fm no problem now. I can see a hydrasynth be something you just upload like roland cloud and you have that among several other models loaded into your future hardware. This is where true analog is different. No software. You can't upload through hole discrete components and vintage hardware chips. And an 85watt power consumption and components that heat up from real electrons squeezed through the circuits. Compared to usb powered 5v 100 m/A [ones and zeros] it's a completely different physical piece of equipment. And, the further you get from that era the harder it is to recreate it. Except behringer. I believe that in the future, as every vintage synth from the 20th century will 4x 5x 10x in price making them completely out of reach, that the closest things remaining will be behringer and some other true analog synths made today. I think in the future for a synthesizer to be sought after it has to have something very special about it some sort of character that makes it unique and special. Look at the sh-101 for example or the tb-303 there is nothing to those technically really, they were totally simple: the low end instruments of the time kind of like getting a cheap family car instead of a sports car. But today they have so much character and ironically, compare their prices to far more sophisticated synths from the time like dw6000 or jx8p which are way cheaper today. I think remakes of true analog that happen today will be among the next classics if companies like behringer stop making them. The other classic synth might be something new that's quirky and has novelty and character that maybe defines a whole new emergent genre of music like the 303 did. But I think that whatever it is , first has to be discontinued. That doesn't happen with software. Not even with something legendary like my virus. Look at the latest software open-source recreation of that, someone just needs to put that in a box again or load it as some kind of update into future hardware and you can't tell the difference from that or my vintage one. I have a few vintage synths 8p dx7 106 m6r. I think out of just my modern synths, the ones I love the most for character or features are my minilogue which has a ton of character, and then, for features and portability and coolness: my reface cp is like an amazing and perfect invention. These might be the best examples of all my synths that might be modern classics if they stopped making them. Today, imo, these big music companies only went back to a few true analog offerings because behringer pushed the market and has done such an absolutely amazing job bringing back an entire class of instruments... otherwise happy to be left behind by yhe oligopoly because of profitability and subscription models. If B ever stopped making many of their classic renditions then many of those will be the new classic synths of the future even if only because the original ones are so unattainable. They have some truly amazing models for unbelievable price points like the next one I'm dying to get the ms-5. And I'm very curious about their Jupiter 8 when that comes out. Right now we are in the middle of a period of tremendous hardware synth offerings at every price class. When discontinued we can say holy cow I remember when that synth only cost 599 to buy now it's thousands.
EMULATOR 1/2/3 are already not classics but LEGENDARY gears…. E4 would access classic soon. as E3X Ensoniq Mirage is already a BIG classic . JD800 already a BIG classic …. Roland VP330 LEGENDARY ( all Vangelis strings sounds, analog choir, DAFT PUNK ETC ETC) Many are already at least classics : a microwave for exemple . K2600 is already classic D50 , DX7 M1are legendary already ( legendary doesn’t mean a huge second hand price….) MKS 20 Big classic last but not least YAMAHA FS1R ….. no comment
I truly don't remember saying that D-50 is overhyped. In this video at 9:20 I did say that the D-50, and a couple of others, have not been hyped beyond their true capabilities. I will say that regardless, it's possible for a keyboard to be overhyped, but still be a classic or a future classic.
@@JeffreyScottPetro it was in your 11 most overhyped synths video, ...(where you dissed the Xpander as well)...😲...i was up half the night reassuring mine it was still one of the best!
There's no way the DX7, D-50 along with the M1, and Triton are not already classics.
Agreed!
D50 is freaking awesome, still today!
Definitely think the D-50 is already a classic! I think the Hydrasynth will eventually become a classic as well. Playing it makes me feel the same way the D-50 did when I first heard it.
I agree on the Hydrasynth, but for some strange reason, I have a suspicion that only the 49-key one will reach classic status, not the Deluxe, I don't know why is that..
Beautifully designed and laid out, well built and a powerful engine (though in this day and age of DSP performance, i feel artificially limited to 8 voice polyphony). But ultimately uninspired by my desktop version, and it's on eBay (minus the dust its collected) after two years.
I sold my Waldorf iridium keyboard and my Roland system 8 and took the plunge on an Alesis andromeda. I opened it up and removed the boards and blew out the pots. I also replaced the screen. It is a “beyond belief” synth. I truly have lost a lot of GAS due to owning this Fantastic Synth!
i was expecting a list of current future classic keyboards. Maybe you can do one on keyboards made in the last 10 to 15 years that will be future classic keyboards
I probably will.
Virus Ti2. Is VST on a keyboard but still.
@@vjrei Agreed. I would argue that the Virus KB would be more classic. It's a beautiful, brown wood and red design with a smoother, more analog Virus B sound. More than anything the 61 key Virus KB uses the famous Fatar TP/8S keybed. Arguably the best synth-style keybed ever. It's a class A master keyboard that just happens to contain a Virus B. With the free DSP56300 emulators it can play any kind of Virus running on a $135 MiniPC. Of course it can play practically anything else virtual.
DX7 has been a classic for quite a while now, and the DX1 is not a classic, it's a Unicorn 🦄 !!
DX7 is common, obsolete and boring, not exciting
I had a Dx5 for a while... Man what a beast to move...
Let's be honest. Additive synthesis can make the most interesting sounds. But man does it take learn to master
@@watcher9987analog synths was the most common in the 80s because warm filter sounds.
I think the only reason my main synth didn't make the list is that it still seems to be kinda rare. I have a Novation Super Nova Pro X keyboard synth. A pure beast of a synth with lots of knobs to fiddle with.
Yeah, i don't think they made many of the Pro X. I did consider it, and it will definitely be a future classic, but I only had 11 slots and I kept the list to mostly mainstream, well-known units. Thanks for the comment.
i like the way you think about these things, and the way you speak. i think your videos will grow in popularity from here! thanks for what you're doing; i'm loving it.
Thanks, I appreciate your support.
I learned FM programming on my DX7 in the 80s. I still have it, still program it and still use it on my albums. Oh, and it still has its original button battery!!
Awesome. It's crazy how some of those original batteries lasted three and four decades when they were only supposed to last five years. Not even lithium, amazing! Appreciate your comment.
The elektron Digitone keys is the best fm synth ever made I can’t get enough of it there is noting that sounds so good and ever the build to the strength of the build the knobs everything about it is flawless
Opsix is better. I havent used a FS1R, but I imagine it's better too.
Kurzweil K2600, Access Virus, Ensoniq TS-10, Ensoniq ASR10.
I have an Access Virus KC and an Ensoniq ASR-10. (I also have an Ensoniq FIZMO, which is a really rare beast!)
@@mournblade1066 Those are classics. I also have a Fizmo. Yes, it's rare, but I'm not thrilled with it. People get it to do great stuff, but it should have been better engineered. I think Ensoniq had been bought, or was near being bought by a PC sound card interface company. They didn't care much about music making.
Where I live (Greece) ALL of the synths you talked about are considered classics already, except the Q. We consider them classics so much, that I myself really thought today's list would include contemporary synths (2014-2024) that you believe/wish/suspect will become classics, so, in a way, I was disappointed.. but I agree on your lists.
I'm going to throw the Korg Prologue in as a "well into the future" classic. I'm sure many of the synths mentioned currently have classic status? Another enjoyable video. Liking the channel.
I would agree with that. Thanks for the comment.
Yes, that was my thought too. They sound great, and VCO. Though maybe only the 16 will be very desirable. Get 'em while they're not expensive.
What, no Kawai K4? I kid, but it was my first synthesizer back in the late 80s, and I still have a soft spot for it. I had a very long time away from keyboard synths, then got back in a few years ago and wondered what the heck happened to multi-timbrality.
Anyway, in “ha ha only serious” territory is the Roland JD800. Would love to have one, but would need a spare room for that aircraft carrier.
Thanks for the vid! :-)
You're welcome for the vid. I always thought the K4 was cool. There are a lot of forgotten gems from that era.
Hello jeffrey , What are your Thoughts on the Roland V-Synth ? Or The Yamaha TX816 , And The Access Virus Indigo 2 / TI2 Polar ?
I'm not a fan of the V-Synth, and I have no good reason to tell you why. I was envious of owners of the TX816, which was great for the 1980s, but software has made it somewhat obsolete. I don't think anyone really needs eight DX7's and perhaps they never did. One real DX7 is enough for me, and I have the Kronos with its FM engine and FM8. I was never interested in an Indigo 2, but I came very close to buying TI2. Then I purchased the Kronos. The Kronos, plus all the software I have, which I haven't talked about yet, but it's a lot, it seemed unnecessary to purchase the TI2 but it's a very nice synth. In a few months, I do a 180 and those new episodes start into all the software I own. Thanks for the question.
Excellent summary of synth history.
Thanks, appreciate that.
Comprehensive list Jeffrey, I would have been tempted to put either an emax I or II in there alongside the ESQ-1.
My friend used to own both a Waldorf Q & XTK at the same time, ironically the XTK sounded a lot more analogue than the Q, he later sold the Q, I am still trying to persuade him to sell me his XTK, though the Q+ sounds amazing, I have never heard one in the flesh.
The Emax will get there, and the Emulators are already there. The XTK is nice, though kinda spendy. Appreciate the comment.
I wouldnt invest in old digital boards due to computer drive failures and possible breakdowns. My AKAI AX60 couldn't stay in tune, my Ensoniq VFX had erratic booting software issues. My Hammond XB2 hardware drive went with no replacement available. A classic to me is a keyboard with a unique sound only that forces a person to get the original, a reissue, clone or updated version. Great topic! I've never owned any of the boards you discussed but very interesting critiques! Subscribed.
What's your take on the Casio CZ-5000? They were innovative, quite rare, sounded pretty good.
Take a look at my episode entitled "Older Bargain Keyboards" starting @ 7:15. I talk about the CZ-5000. In that video I say that I owned a CZ-3000, but I found an old studio picture and it was a CZ-1, very similar. I didn't own it long, because it wasn't for me, but many people love the CZ series and the CZ-5000 is the top of the line. Thanks for the comment.
‘Dilate frozen east’ blows away ambient I hear now. ‘Dilate’ 1997 peace serenity
‘
As a SX-240 owner I can attest to what an epic synth this is. Super easy to edit, smooth and easy to mix, I like it along with the Teisco mono 60F, also a lovely mono!
That's cool, thanks for sharing.
I think the Rev2 will become a classic too! I know it was bagged heavily at start but now many have found a love for it's power and it's versatility with a hell of knob per function
12:45 The DSS-1 is also a beefed-up DW8000!
I really like how you always take it to 11! Great video
Thanks. Yeah, my videos go to 11, just like Spinal Tap. Appreciate the comment.
In terms of synthe from the last 30 years, I'd add the Roland V-Synth and JD-800, and Korg Karma. The latter was later absorbed into the Oasys and Kronos, but I think it was the genuinely original component.
I also thought of the Waldorf Q and Nord Lead, which you namechecked, along with most of the other major contenders.
Interesting list. Very interesting. However, regarding samplers, there are definitely some samplers that have already become classics, besides the obvious ones you've already mentioned (Synclavier and Fairlight). Samplers from the late 80's and early 90's such as the Akai MPC60 (and MPC 60II), and MPC3000 as well as the E-MU SP12, SP1200, Ensoniq EPS16, and ASR-10 are highly sought after by many hip-hop/rap producers and command very high prices today. This is mainly because of the sound character they are known for.
Even some of the later samplers from the late 90's and early 2000s are starting to creep up in prices, such as the E-MU E4 series rack samplers as well as the MPC2000XL and MPC4000. Many of these older machines have high grade components in their circuitry and they don't sound like the newer machines that are being built today. That's what makes them special.
You want to know of a super rare and expensive sampler from the 80's? Check out the Sequential Circuits Studio 440.
I personally believe many of these samplers I just mentioned have already become classics and some of them (notably the later more modern ones I've mentioned) will soon become classics a few years from now if they haven't already.
BTW, I didn't mention this one earlier, but maybe I should include the Ensoniq Mirage, mainly because it was one of the first affordable keyboard samplers, or perhaps maybe even THE first affordable keyboard sampler, to ever hit the market.
How about the Korg MS2000? I'm also hoping that the Akai Miniak / Alesis Micron might also start to venture into classic territory for being a bit different but also having a pretty epic amount of sound for the money?
You would have my vote on the MS2000. Thanks for the comment.
I don’t normally correct experts in videos, but it’s David vs. Goliath, not Daniel
Congrats on finding an Easter Egg- it's not an error. I put one or more into every episode. In usually a movie reference. This one is personal, so most people won't know it. Only one other person commented about an Easter Egg so good job.
hi, one list i was thinkling about is hd recoreders/digital mixers from late 90' early 00's, best of a tech is at the tail of the history. let's say , they need to go up to 24/96 ?
Interesting. There are certainly a lot of units to choose from. Thanks for the suggestion.
@@JeffreyScottPetro i use two fostex d824's (16 adat's in and outs if needed if i used my minidsp boards) they go up tyo 24/96 and i can record 11hours inside each. in nowadays these are still very revelant imo. i payed one 50+shipping and the other 100+shipping, but i was spotting them and that was 10 years ago (prices dnt move much since, they go for 350 generally), they have midi in/ou/thru, and thus you can even record midi for later aranging.... i'm an audio electronician so my music prod stuff isd for me, i have nice mixers old school style for raw sound, but i would like to find a nice digi mixer with tghose kind of specs.... i guess i sould look in roland or yamaha...
Great list and enjoy your opinions. How you narrowed down to 11 I can’t imagine. I started with this list of 92 candidates. Picking 11 was just impossible, but I did winnow it down to 15…
1. Groove Synthesis 3rd Wave
2. Non-Linear Labs 15
3. Moog Subsequent 37 CV
4. Korg Minilogue XD
5. Novation Summit
6. Waldorf Quantum Mk II
7. ASM Hydrasynth Deluxe
8. Dave Smith Instruments OB-6
9. Roland JD-XA
10. Access Virus TI2
11. Modal Electronics 002
12. Korg Kronos
13. Yamaha M6/7/8
14. Sequential Pro 3 SE
15. UDO Super Gemini
16. Roland V-Synth GT
17. Buchla Easel Command
18. Moog Grandmother
19. Moog Matriarch
20. Vermona Perfourmer MKII CV
21. Make Noise 0-Coast
22. Studio Electronics Code 8
23. Studio Electronics Midimini v30
24. AJH Radiophonic
25. AJH Minimod Keys
26. Studio Electronics Boomstars
27. Modal Electronics 008
28. Rhodes MK8
29. Dreadbox Medusa
30. Dreadbox Abyss
31. Dreadbox Murmux
32. Oberheim OB-X8
33. Oberheim TVS-Pro
34. Oberheim SEM-Pro
35. Sequential Prophet 6
36. Sequential Trigon-6
37. Macbeth Elements
38. Macbeth M5N White Face
39. Cwejman S1 Mk2
40. Black Corporation Deckard’s Dream
41. Black Corporation ISE-NIN
42. Black Corporation Kijimi
43. Black Corporation Xerxes
44. Baloran The River
45. Baloran Pool
46. Schmidt 8-Voice
47. Critical Systems 15
48. Haken Continuum 70
49. Expressive E Osmose
50. John Bowen Solaris and Solaris Rev 2
51. Elta Solar 42F
52. Hartmann Neuron
53. Moog Sirin
54. Moog One 16-Voice
55. Moog Model 10 reissue
56. Moog Model 15 reissue
57. Moog Muse
58. Moog System 35 reissue
59. Moog System 55 reissue
60. Moog Synthesizer IIIp reissue
61. Moog Synthesizer IIIc reissue
62. Teenage Engineering OP-1 Field
63. SOMA Lyra-8
64. SOMA Terra
65. Roland SE-02
66. Yamaha Reface CS
67. Bastl Instruments MicroGranny
68. Mutable Instruments Shruthi-1
69. Vermona ‘14
70. Vermona DRM1 MKIII
71. Jomox Sunsyn
72. Doepfer Dark Energy II
73. Korg ARP 2600FS
74. Korg ARP 2600 Mini
75. Korg MS-20M
76. Korg ARP Odyssey Mk I
77. Buchla Music Easel
78. Buchla Skylab
79. Arturia MicroFreak
80. Arturia Polybrute 12
81. Crumar Spirit Reissue
82. Elektron Monomachine
83. Dave Smith Instruments Polyevolver PEK
84. Sequential Prophet XL
85. Moog Minimoog Voyager XL
86. Moog Minimoog Model D Reissue 2022
87. Sequential Prophet 12
88. Waldorf Kyra
89. Waldorf Pulse 2
90. Waldorf Q+ Phoenix Edition,
91. Waldorf Wave 32-Voice
92. MFB Dominion One
Predicted 15 Most Likely Future Classics
1. Moog One 16-Voice
2. Waldorf Quantum Mk II
3. Dave Smith Instruments OB-6
4. Arturia Polybrute 12
5. Sequential Prophet 6
6. Oberheim OBX8
7. Oberheim TVS-Pro
8. Sequential Prophet 12
9. Korg Kronos
10. Moog Muse
11. Groove Synthesis 3rd Wave
12. UDO Super Gemini
13. Black Corporation Deckard’s Dream Mk II
14. Schmidt 8-Voice
15. Expressive-E Osmose
Those are two amazing lists. Thanks!
I think the Roland Jupiter X will one day be a classic. As time goes by, and the cloud patches fade away, I think there will be a robust, fan run, patch database.
Matriarch, Hydrasynth, Polybrute.....
Doesnt matter, it will all be niche market though as AI will inject its fangs into 99% of the music consumed.
I think that the Oasys/Kronos heritage is understated at this time, probably because the platform still lives on in the Nautilus. The sounds may be today a little bit long in the tooth but the important thing was the concept and the huge R&D effort after it, probably starting with the Oasys PCI card.
Korg used to boast that they wrote the book on workstations with the M1, but they also figuratively burned it with the Oasys/Kronos platform, forcing Roland and Yamaha to try and redefine what a workstation is with the Montages and Phantoms, coming close well after a decade.
What do you like for synths that have come out in the last few years
For me, I haven't purchased any new synth hardware, since i purchased the Kronos circa 2011. I have a lot of plugins.
Did you get the backlit display for the DX7? I installed one in mine about 3 months after I got it and it made all the difference in being able to see the patch on a dark stage. Seems like a strange omission from the factory.
I have the IIFD. It's not LCD, so I don't need a backlight... sounds cool though...
No casio-101 or cz-5000 it seems phase distortion synthesis was lost to time.
I've actually mentioned both of those synths in other Episodes. For example, the CZ-101 is featured in an Episode entitled "More Older Bargain Keyboards." I even owned a CZ-3000 for a short time. Thanks for the comment.
So, I'm probably pretty biased (I'm relatively young and only got into synths about a few years ago), but I do think you might be underselling recent advancements by newer companies that aren't just trying to sell remakes of older synths. A list of recent ones that I think would be worth keeping an eye on as future classics would be the following:
- Polybrute 12: Finally a flagship synth that's starting to get that channel pressure shouldn't just be an afterthought (pun intended). The new envelope design combined with the fulltouch keyboard is what pushes this over the line from being just another analog polysynth to actually innovating on what was already a solid and fairly unique synth design. The price here will likely ensure that these are relatively rare.
- Expressive E Osmose: While its predecessor the Haken Continuum is ultimately a better design IMO, the familiarity and cost of the Osmose is likely going to help it spread to a wider audience. The arcane nature of the Eigenmatrix synth architecture will likely help contribute to its mystique and make it easier to find distinctive preset usage out in the wild, sort of like the DX7 before it.
- Hydrasynth: while it's hard to point out any one thing about this synth that is truly innovative, this has been mentioned several times before by other people in the comment section, and for good reason. It's just a really well designed synth that isn't like any one synth before it.
- Super 6/Novation Summit: it's honestly hard to say which one of these will become a future classic, if any. Novation Summit did the whole FPGA oscillators into Analog filters first, and the Super 6 needs to catch up in the firmware feature department IMO. (Lacking support for microtonal tuning is a big miss on something with such precise oscillators, IMO).
- Access Virus: This is before my time, but I think you could argue that this is already well on its way to being a classic. I've heard people mention several times how they wish there were more synths out there with this level of flexibility.
While I don't agree with all your choices, I respect your opinion. Thanks for the comment.
Shouldn't "future" classics be pulled from the late 90s and early 2000s?
That's a choice, but it could be any that are currently not classics yet. I plan to do another list with some more modern gear.
Wasnt the U-110 released before M1 and was a rompler too?
I believe both released in 88.
No, U110 released after M1 in 1988, has barely any programmability, no filter , noisy output (leading to revised U20/U220), no reverb or sophisticated fx (compared to M1), small PCM ROM ,and earlier K1000 and later Proteus - even without filters - were better in every way. Even back then it was essentially alone being called a "sample player" and not a synth. (Different than a RAM sampler playback-only unit/expander like S1000PB, DPX1, DPM-SP, S700).
@@ShallRemainUnknown Indeed but the creator was talking about romplers and the principal for sound generation
Remember having 5-octave Ensoniq and Kurzweill and it made me playing them by all night long! (USA, unlike Japanese, didn't deal with below 95 volts conditions!) In pandemia acquired Mojo and pedalboard, after that Nord and Seabord and also a 95's all ever praised Ex5, maybe one of revolutionary moments in industry of a great many synthesis and sounds and editions and controls and ribbon resources - less than 1000 dollars, but heavy! Perhaps facing as an ever distant future classic...
What about Roland Jupiter4 and VSynth?
J4, yes. V-Synth, possibly, eventually...
Among samplers Akai samplers are getting there I think. Triton racks are also becoming classics little by little. Access Virus is now getting from cult status to cult classic.
8:15 Hard disagree. The D50 is already a classic because Enya and other artists championed it. Also, it was one of the best-selling keyboards and paved the way for Roland's 80s and 90s workstationsions and sound modules, starting with the MT-32!!
No any of Access Viruses ?
Am I out of line to suggest that the Access Virus should be on this list, or did the Waldorf Q beat that?
The virus is way cool, especially the TI2 gen, but I do believe the Q is better or perhaps just different.
I have an Access Virus KC, and that thing is a BEAST!
Agreed. I'd suggest that the Virus KB might actually be the most desirable. Class A, master keyboard, original Fatar TP/8S keybed which is widely recognized as better than anything else. It also looks better than the C or TI although the Darkstar variant is cool. A number of people have argued that while a TI can be made to sound like the B or C, the pre-TI series came out of the box with a smoother analog sound. Look up the "Savage Machine" performance on RUclips. That's a KB.
@@jvburnes All the Virus synths are backwards-compatible. I have the Virus KC, and it can load all the patches from the Virus A and the Virus B. Oddly, it can also load some of the Vrus TI sounds (except for those with the "super-saw").
Andromeda is an exellent choice, I miss mine. Biggest issue will be the ASICS chips which are unavailable, so if theyngo bad you lose voices. Absolutely stunning synth though.
I'd also say Roland V-Synth, as it is unique in the way it can manipulate samples (obviously the V-Synth GT and to a lesser extent VP9000 fall into this group).
The Q is a good shout, though I would say the XTk is a better call as it is more unique - not a VA but a wavetable synth. Also, I've had a Q and a Q rack, and both had faulty encoders. The XTk I've had for years has always been spot on, so build quality would be a concern.
Modal synths I think will be solid choices, I have a 002, and if I ever see a 008 I would consider selling a kidney to have the pair. Rare, designed by George Hearn and Paula Maddox, and genuinely special sounding. Also built with military grade components so you stand a great chance of it still working in 30 years.
Baloran The River, never played one but these have rarity and podium points galore.
Roland JD800 - great boards but it is the aesthetics that will put them into the 'drool' category. The red goo issue with the keys will drive rarity as many will have been written off.
Jomox, anything really, but the Sunsyn is probably the one to have, if the Andromeda is on the list the Sunsyn should also be.
Studio Electronics Omega 8 - they were the Rolls Royce of synths at the time.
Going back in time I think the Roland W30 and Korg Prophecy also may become classics ahead of their contemporaries due to their connection to The Prodigy, and the MPC3000 due to its use by DJ Shadow.
I could be here all night - I try to buy gear that will go up in value over time so I think about this stuff a lot!
Great video, really enjoyed hearing your perspective, some synths on that list I would not have considered!
Thanks for the comment.
Access Virus ti2 ?
Definitely worthy.
Yep got that and I would say Rev2 as well ... In 16 voice trim it's a bit of a workhorse synth with a hell of a lot of knob per function...
The andromeda is very expensive and already highly sought after.
A good one is the EMU E4K which is a feature heavy sampler with a very high quality seven octave range keyboard attached, it has multiple outputs, dual FX card as standard, 64 note polyphonic, amazing Z plane filters, up to 128mb ram, fully editable with samples that are compatible with the EMU Ultra range and sounds fantastic.
It’s the rack E4X in keyboard form and can be picked up for £200 upwards.
It’s different from the later Ultra sampler range with better AD/DA converters and a wider stereo image.
You’re welcome.
I don't want to spoil anything. Watch next week's episode, I think you'll like it. Thanks for the comment.
My own honorable mention goes to the first analog polyphonic synth I got to play. That was the Roland JX-8p. I first tried playing it in 1999, about 14 years after it was new. Most thankfully, this one came with the PG-800 programmer.
The 8P is great. I've always had a soft spot for the JX-10, which of course is two 8P. You really need the PG-800 to make it user friendly.
You’re not wrong, @@JeffreyScottPetro. Don’t ask me what concentration level I needed to reach to do so, but I had a JX-10 myself for about nine years, and I was able to figure out how to patch it from the front panel without the PG programmer. I got one when I got my 8P, but being separated from it was the mother of invention.
Another great episode Jeffrey! I was pleasantly surprised when you dropped the DSS 1. And if memory serves a big selling point was its’ SSM analog filter. But the thing was very klunky to use.
RE: Samplers I do think there will be a niche collectors’ market of the higher end stuff like the E IV Ultra. But not across the board. I’m still shocked at prices the E-mu SP12/1200 command.
Curious to get your take on the Kurzweil stuff as they seemed to really have a foot hold on the 90s/ early 2000s
Is VAST something synthesists scratched the surface of and there’s more to mine there or was it a one and done architecture?
Kurzweil was a major player in the eighties when it came to sampling. Their ads for the 250 created hyper-buzz. Those that were around at that time probably remember the full-page ads with the waveform of a piano, and how they claimed it was identical. The planet circled the Sun a few times, and they didn't keep up technologically, but certainly legendary for the time. Their VAST technology was interesting, although complex, and they did some cool things for musicians that were visually impaired. I've never owned any K gear, but I have played the K250, and it sounded fine, but not what I'd call exceptional, especially for the retail price.
No you definitely haven't wasted our time. It's again a polarizing list. One correction is to be made: Whenever I turn on the Andromeda, it's always out of tune. These are definitely no DCOs.
The DX7 and D-50 are already there minus the prices. I think one of Kurzweil K2xx series is a future classic. Probably the K2000.
Totally agree that Waldorf Q made your list - even today, sounds current and innovative. Would suggest the EMAX Ii as a possible classic sampler - something about the tonality and presence is difficult to describe. Finally, would suggest the Access Virus TII as a future classic.
Chef's kiss on the main list, but a couple quibbles with the supplementals - your criteria and future classics are spot on (especially glad that my beloved ESQ-1 made the cut!)
But I think you're wrong (or only half right) about the samplers. True - keyboard shaped samplers fell out of vogue, but they evolved into a category of current and future classics all its own: the Fairlight, Synclavier, and, I'd argue the Ensoniq Mirage eventually made way for the early MPCs, and the SP-1200. Future classic samplers will include the Akai S620, and, I believe, the Ensoniq ASR-10.
As for truly modern classics, I'd point you to Elektron: their Monomachine is an example of a small volume early-ish digital object of lust that has already reached *stratospheric* pricing.
Interesting, and you may be right. Appreciate your comment.
I have great memories in 1978 of playing the Octave CAT in the high school rock band (it belonged to the school). I felt that it was a great 2-osc. synth at the time. It was atop the Rhodes 73. Wish I picked one up for myself. I had the Roland SH-7 which I think was actually better though (on my "regret getting rid of list" video you posted) Any thoughts of the CAT in classicland?
I had forgotten about the CAT. If I remember correctly, it was a copy of the Arp Odyssey. I think I remember reading that somewhere. A guy where I worked decades ago owned one. I remember him playing the bassline for "Let's Hear it for the Boy" on the CAT while he played synth chord stabs on a Korg Poly61. I recall that it sounded very nice. I have always thought of it as a better option than a Realistic Moog MG-1, but you pay a lot more for the CAT.
@@JeffreyScottPetro Couldn't pull the trigger at $895 at our local music shop ($3,600 today!), but I lucked out picking up the Roland SH-7 & RS-101 strings for $400 from Guitar Center. That was a year after my very first board: the unimpressive Korg MS-10 (still have the receipt! :)) CHEERS!
How about Access Virus?
I'm a fan of the TI2 Polar and Dark Star editions. Kinda spendy though.
Cool to see the nod to the ESQ1. I recently picked up one in showroom condition and replaced battery, upgraded OS, added sequencer expansion and loaded it up with sounds from my old cassettes! I will say that the plastic case is better built than the older metal. It’s a keeper and still one of the easiest sequencers to put down ideas on. Had a chance to pick up a DSS1 but just didn’t want to deal with the OS. The DW8000 has been on my shortlist for some time. I really like that one and it has been used by some artists over the years. Love the list. It’s funny to see how some of the ‘abandonware’ tech has gained traction over recent years. But wait? No RedSound Dark Star? (Just kidding).
Thanks for sharing.
I love my Korg DSS-1 -- it's highly underrated. (Alas, it's really really big and really really heavy).
I bought an AX80 brand new, and found it one of the most inspirational synths. I wasn't impressed with the build quality, as I found its case was very loose and floppy - I could lift one corner and the whole case would shift around. No Amount of screw tightening would fix it. As I gigged a lot I just couldn't gig with it. Sadly, I PX'ed it for a new Ensoniq Mirage. I still have my PolySix and (ahem) most of my EDP wasp in a binbag somewhere 😂 Fortunately, I have the Behringer Wasp which is a spot-on recreation sonically.
LOL on the Wasp in a binbag.
@@JeffreyScottPetro yes. It's true. The case got pretty much destroyed over time. I was going to get the guy from Analog Solutions (his name escapes me at the moment) to do his rack conversion, but he stopped doing modifications to concentrate on designing and building his own synths. That was about 15 - 20 years ago and it's been sitting in a black bag since then. It still actually works, but I'd need a couple of rolls of duct-tape to hold it together 😂
Maybe I'll make some kind of new case for it some day....maybe.
Cheers ✌️
Nice one Jeff 👍🏻
Thank you, sir.
Yeah nice one Jeff. I reckon a couple of early akai samplers and eps16+ deserve an honourable mention. I so miss my esq
Thanks, appreciate the comment.
Well done and thoroughly enjoyable.I agree with the choice of the D50 although the D70 or any 76 or 88 key version of a groundbreaking keyboard with most likely be the one sought after.The eighties to 2000 was such a great period for music creation and creativity that I think future movies will ask to see these instruments present as we look at the lives of those who made the music and changed the world. The current era may have challenges associated with the involvement of AI preceded by soulless music which made it to the charts .If you watch Rick Beato you will understand those sentiments.
Best wishes from the Caribbean .
I actually own a D-70. IMO, not as good as a D-50- so many issues. I'll probably do a synth lore episode on it eventually.
@@JeffreyScottPetro Thank you for that Maybe a bigger brother series DX5 ,D70 and JX10P I think you already covered the DW8000
The digital synths that will become classics will be iconic modern modulars. For example, I suspect a full mint condition modular of the entire set of Mutable Instruments modules will be very collectable. And full systems, like the Noise Engineering Shared System etc... will become very sought after. To me, those are the revolutionary synths of our time. Otherwise, I suspect it will be like in the past. Only the slightly rarer relatively top-end flagship analog or analog hybrids keyboards will become classics. So Polybrute 12, Groove Synthesis Third Wave, UDO Gemini, Oberheim OB-X8, Sequential Prophet 6 & OB-6, Moog Matriarch, reissues like the Korg Arp 2600 FS. And a few not quite so eyebleed expensive, though still pricey, like the Korg Prologue 16, Novation Summit & Moog Grandmother, Prophet Rev 2 (keyboard), Moog Sub 37. Maybe the love for the digital synths like the Hydrasynth keyboard will come back around eventually, in 30 years time, when the are seen as quaint. Like it did for the M1, D50. Never really happened for DX7s for example, which always surprised me.
Surprised to see the ESQ-1 on your list. It was groundbreaking as the first affordable workstation, but was quickly surpassed in sound quality by the M1.
Since buying an ASR-10, my ESQ-1 has just been collecting dust and I sold it a few years ago to a higher price than M1's was selling.
To me the ASR-10 is a classic sampler, with its fantastic effects, great workflow and workstation capabilities.
This was very fascinating. Some of these synths I had never heard of so thank you for the historical background. I agree from what I have seen there has not been any ground breaking synths in the last 14-25 years and the big three have all but given up the ghost with feeble rehashes or extremely neutered toy like reissues and I'm sure others will come for my head, however NONE of those will be classics even in 5k years, although grant it you may like them.
Thanks, appreciate the comment.
Even there are zillions of them, I think the MicroKorg is becoming a new classic-much like a pair of Converse sneakers: affordable and something almost everyone has owned at some point in their life.😂
11. The Ensoniq esq-1 has great analog filters, but I'll take an ensoniq sd-1 any day over an esq-1. It's got to be the best warm 80s synth I've ever owned with the best on board sequencer period.
10. The prophet vs is already a classic. You can thank Vince Clarke from Erasure for that.
9. The kawai sx-240 analog synth was my first synth. It is decent sounding when adding effects but not a true classic that everyone would lust over. It kind of reminds me of the korg poly line. I traded a pre slingerland red sparkle St. george 4 piece Buddy Rich kit with original Zildjian cymbals to guitar center in Hollywood like a dummy for it. That drum sets is now worth 15k or more.
8. Eric Persing did all the sounds for the d-50. That and the d-550 are already classics.
7. The Korg wavestation ex or ad if I remember correctly we're the ones I bought back then.
6. Behringer cloned the wasp, so it must be good. 😀
5. 80s guys who do 80s music like myself definitely know that the korg dss-1 is a bona-fide classic. Shhhh. Keep it a secret.
4. Alesis Andromeda is all the best engineers and synth designers getting together to build the best and most feature rich synth possible at the time. A solid investment into the future. It's only going to go up in value.
3. Dx7 is a classic but will always be available, so It will never reach crazy prices. The dx-1 is the one that has and will continue to command high prices.
2. Akai AX80 I know nothing about it, but I'm guessing it's analog, which is a warm cup of cocoa.
1. Waldorf q. I had the red Q+, and you are correct. It was great but unfinished. They fixed a few things, but it never reached the finish line as far as the OS goes. Yes, the display was terrible. Why was it so great then? Simple, their sound designer Jorg Hutter made some of the best German synth patches I've ever heard. A massive sound beast.
A few I think will be future classics off the top of my head..
1 best sounding synth that I lusted over for 5 years straight at the namm show is the spectralis 2.
2. Access Virus TI 2.
3. Ensoniq Sd-1 as mentioned before
4. Oberheim OBX8
5. Sequential pro 2 & pro 3
6. Baloran the river
7. Arturia Polybrute 12
8. Novation Supernova 2 Platinum 48 voice
9. Yamaha an1x
10. Studio Logic Sledge. Unfinished os but sounds great.
11. Dsi evolver
12. Emu Emulator 2 + sampler
13. Dsi prophet 10 reissue. 😊
Wow! Thanks for the list.
Oh and if you haven’t checked out the 3rd Wave by Groove Synthesis, it now has sampling and has nods towards a number of the synths mentioned. It now includes VS waves, and people are loading in Mirage, D50, and other elements. It is a monster of a synth, expanding on PPG and VA, with an analog Prophet 5 type filter!
I wish I had a Prophet VS Rack. 🙂 This is not a reasoned thing. I know the asking prices (and selling prices) are far too much for an eight-voice synth. It's also not like it's an entirely new kind of synthesis. Heck, I even have the excellent Arturia software version. But there is something about the sound, and I think that it's nigh impossible to get a bad note out of it.
It's nice to see that I have the module versions (let me include the Micro Q and Wavestation SR) of about half of the synths you list. They may not become classics because of different production numbers, but nowadays, people appear to have more money than space, and modules often command higher prices than their keyboard counterparts.
A small note about the DSM-1: while it is the module version of the DSS-1, it's also crippled. I forgot how exactly, but there are videos out from people who know more about it than I do.
The Moog joke is getting a bit old.
I've been looking at some of the other hybrid synths (Roland JX-10; Kawai K3; Korg DW-8000; Waldorf Microwave) but I cannot quite fathom where they would end up, as either classics or not-quite-classics.
People would probably want you to include the Groove Synthesis 3rd Wave, the Novation Summit, or the Arturia MaxtrixBrute/PolyBrute. But as you said, they're just regurgitating old ideas. Plus, I have a feeling that in 30 years time, they'll still be selling regurgitated analogue synths and PPG Waves.
One exception _might_ be the Waldorf Quantum Mk 2. It's big, expensive, and has a ton of synthesis methods on board, all of which can be combined. The only thing that comes close is the Waldorf Iridium, but that's purely digital, and considerably less expensive. Not that purely digital is a bad thing, but people fawn over analogue filters and such.
I'm listing my yellow Waldorf Q for sale now... so painful. hope yo get another someday, it's an incredible instrument.
Good luck with the sale.
Macbeth synthesizers are future classics. Certainly Moog-inspired synths, but Ken Macbeth sort of further perfected the “Moog sound”.
Korg EX800 👀 That "sawtooth" has to be a classic 😊
The majority of artists didn't really program anything once FM synthesis came around. They basically used factory presets, because it was way too complex to program and they didn't invest the time to learn. That's why songs from the time sound EXACTLY out of the presets with no change other than reverb or delay.
Hi, when I´m playing around with my old gear Atari st/c-lab Creator, it mostly ends up with the Kawai sx-240 taking care off the bass, something about that sound i need in my songs. Got it realy cheep in the early 90s. I realy like Your channel, subscribed.
THANKS FOR SUBSCRIBING!!!
If a keyboard cannot be repaired without parting out another keyboard, maybe it will be trendy for a time, but it will not be a long term classic in my opinion. Most digital synths with low production fall into that category. There must be a sufficient number to make it viable for aftermarket parts. I have kept a few analog mono synths from the 70s because I believe they will most likely always be repairable.
That's a good point.
I thought you would say Yamaha MX or Korg Nautilus. Weird.
Definitely possible, but I limit myself to six slots. Thanks for the comment.
I was thinking this was about fairly new synths that will be considered classics in the future.
Plus more and more people use plug ins these days instead of actual synths, I don’t I’m old school 😂
How about a *real* list - that has keyboard manufactured today? Every list I see is old stuff. Of course they are classic. They are old. But what about the keyboards today. I think the Osmose and the Polybrute as well as the Schmidt will make the new list. What do you think?
It's coming in about a month or so.
E-MU SP1200 has got to classic status I guess. They even made some new ones.
What? No Access Virus series?
It should make another list. The T2 is worthy.
@@JeffreyScottPetro I have officially subscribed! Great videos! I have an Access Virus KC, and that thing is an absolute beast! It can emulate pretty much any synth from the 1970 and 1980s and beyond.
I also own an Ensoniq FIZMO, which is a truly weird synth. I absolutely love it!
Casio SK1, Korg Volca Keys, Korg Monotron Delay.
Personally I believe people from old keyboards are expecting particular cult landmark patches, which they hearded in they favorite songs/ music. In general everybody want's CS80 because of only one "Bladerunner" patch. 🙂 Rest of keyboards can in interesting from technical point of view, but if they didn't have famous user, or featured on some classic hits, I doubt that somebody would like to re-discover them today for music production, and deal with their technical limitations.
I do think the microfreak may well be a future classic ..
Yes, it seems very capable for its small size, although I'm not a fan of non-traditional keyboards. Still, very cool. Thanks for the comment.
I expected this to be about modern synthesizers. I guess that's my bad for assuming anything, but... but...
Me too, most of these are already classics
I'm going to do a top 12 list. That's one better than a top 11.
...and I will watch it. Thanks for the comment.
The AN1x is fantastic and super fat sounding. However, the JP-8000, while not a great sounding, is easier to program. How about the JD-800?
The JD-800 is amazing. I almost talked myself into buying one a couple of times. I think Tony Banks used to own one, and I'm a huge Genesis fan.
@@JeffreyScottPetroCheck out Alex Ball's video of Tony Bank's JD-800.
Waldorf Q, but not the Virus?
I really like the Virus. It probably will be a future classic, and I'm sure it will make a future list. It's hard when you only have 11 slots. Thanks for the comment.
I feel like the more digital tech in a synth, the less likely it is to age well. This may be unfair, but “bit rot” is a real phenomenon that analog devices just don’t have to deal with. I imagine my Hydrasynth will still work in 15 years if it’s taken care of. But will I still be able to use its USB ports to connect to whatever DAW I’m using on whatever computer I’m using in 2040? Maybe, but hard to say how USB 2.0 will fare in a Thunderbolt 18 world. Everything is likely to be wireless, anyway! Will I still be able to update its firmware or manage its patches with the ASM app, or will ASM long since have stopped making Mac software - if they exist at all? Modern synths are often intended to be paired with a computer and/or internet connection, and that dependency means that more modern synths need to keep up with changes in technology in a way most classic analog synths did not. The synths will likely still work, of course - but they may be much harder to integrate into your 2040 studio than classic analog gear is today. Unless we can count on synth makers to still be making and updating their companion apps in 2040, we’ll have a lot of “well it kinda works but I can’t do X,Y, and Z with it because the app stopped getting updated in 2029 and Mac OS 27 no longer supports 32 bit apps.”
I think this is mainly a problem with the firmware and companion software not being open source and using open standards. Due to there not being any plans to backport MIDI 2.0 to DIN Midi, USB will likely outlive DIN Midi in people's studios. Thunderbolt is just a dead end IMO, as evidenced by governments forcing Apple to adopt open standards like USB on their products instead.
If you really want to future proof a synth, you'd give it USB and Ethernet ports, and make the firmware and any companion software open source (with open source tooling for building and flashing the firmware to the synth). For an example of a synth that is ticking most of these boxes, see the MI Nina.
It's is probably worth noting that a fully digital synth is much less likely to want to open source their software as what they are selling is basically just a pretty box to run it.
Yeah, agreed. It’s hard to say how these things will go in the future, I guess that was my only point. Thunderbolt may be a dead end, but that doesn’t necessarily mean we’ll have USB 2.0 compatibility forever. It’s just something to keep in mind. My house is full of older digital devices that technically work but don’t get much use because they’re no longer supported and/or don’t still integrate into my other systems easily. 😁
I suspect 6 and 7 have the most influence on what ultimately get boards their classic status.🤔
Probably so. Thanks for the comment... and your screen name is very cool.
The name might be if it weren't so true. I have tried just about everything to sit down comfortably to play. I was also annoyed that they added 3074 to the end. They could have at least chosen something cool like "2112" haha😁🎶🎹🎶Play On
If the WASP is a future classic then the Oscar should be.
I agree.
ASM Hydrasynth
I've heard this a few times. My best friend Brian bought one a few months ago and raves about it.
AX-80s Membrane buttons are a nightmare and die i sold that one but it is a good KB, Sold a Jupiter 8 and kept the Andromeda.
Just go Ensoniq SQ-80, it's better than ESQ-1 and only a little more $$. We're approaching full circle with old, classic and re-issue. Newer synths are built like cheap toys or expensive tanks and soon will fade. Computers and DSPs can do analog and digital and eventually a synth will just be a large touchscreen with virtual knobs and sliders. I've repaired and refurbished enough hardware in my lifetime to see what's happening.
The DX7 already acquired that status, lots of kids have been using it since 2015 in the indies bands. Mac DeMarco overused it in every album of his.
Indie folks in their 20s/30s have three keyboards in mind: MicroKorg, DX7 and Junos. Prices are reflecting it already unfortunately :(
just under 2 minutes, 30 seconds in, I immediately have two gripes...
1) classic should not have anything to do with how many units were made. that's rarity. if rare automatically suggested nomination for classic, then there'd be loads of unworthy synths in the discussion. 2) analog. 40 years have passed since digital synths entered the scene. any good sounding synth that's well over 20 years old should at least be eligible for consideration.
WAIT!! update: expensive?!? how is that a consideration here?!? man... you are LOSING me FAST!! I'm sorry... I'm not a heckler or a naysayer. I'm really not. but I thought this was gonna have music-making at its core.
perhaps you address all of this in the coming minutes & commentary. but, dang...
I expected this to be about modern synthesizers. I guess that's my bad for assuming anything, but... but... I'm just not connecting with this. probably 'cause I wasn't into synths all those years ago. I appreciate older synths. I do. but...
I totally agree with famous artists using them & helping to vault them into classic status.
The problem, as in most silly "discussions"/"debates"/"commentaries" online about synths (or anything else) is complete failure to define things (or agreement on a definition), so that there's no common language, no consensus on what you're even discussing. What is meant by "classic" here? Who knows , waste of time, I am a actually ashamed I lack the discipline to stop watching/commenting on ignorant fluff like this...
@@ShallRemainUnknown hahaha!! I know the shame of which you speak. it springs up from a bubbling brood of unbridled compulsion. & then it curdles on the surface like old milk in the noonday sun.
(sorry, I got a little carried away there.)
I'm sure this youtuber has some solid bits he's done. okay... I'm guessing he does. I couldn't bring myself to finish this particular vid. I managed to bridle the compulsion for this vid. but there have been many others wherein.... mmm... not so much.
anyway... I enjoyed your rant. so, there's that. ;-)
@@doctorauxiliary LOL - poetic, melodramatic, and apropos!
Yes, the channel is alright, I'm sure it will improve, good for him for getting up and doing it (certainly an effort, and I haven't done it). It's just that when you're hoping for insight, experience, and to learn something, a bunch of baseless opinions isn't fulfilling. Moreover, if those opinions are clearly not founded on a minimum of personal usage AND have numerous factual errors, then it gets a bit annoying.
In any case, thanks for your thoughtful reply!
@@ShallRemainUnknown you have gotten right down to the business with this reply here. I'm sorry I didn't see it & respond sooner. thanks much for the exchange here. I appreciate it greatly.
1:44 _snark,_ in full effect
True analog is an instrument in its own right. Digital instruments are best at what they do, realistic samples fm granular etc but trying to get digital to copy analog and say it's the same thing is like creating a plastic laser cut violin and saying this one sounds just like a stratavarius.
I think anything digital will always be accessible and will never be a rare sought after synth. Because you can always run the programs in future hardware that's more powerful. Look at how flagship yamaha can do a dx7 fm no problem now.
I can see a hydrasynth be something you just upload like roland cloud and you have that among several other models loaded into your future hardware.
This is where true analog is different. No software. You can't upload through hole discrete components and vintage hardware chips. And an 85watt power consumption and components that heat up from real electrons squeezed through the circuits. Compared to usb powered 5v 100 m/A [ones and zeros] it's a completely different physical piece of equipment.
And, the further you get from that era the harder it is to recreate it. Except behringer. I believe that in the future, as every vintage synth from the 20th century will 4x 5x 10x in price making them completely out of reach, that the closest things remaining will be behringer and some other true analog synths made today.
I think in the future for a synthesizer to be sought after it has to have something very special about it some sort of character that makes it unique and special. Look at the sh-101 for example or the tb-303 there is nothing to those technically really, they were totally simple: the low end instruments of the time kind of like getting a cheap family car instead of a sports car. But today they have so much character and ironically, compare their prices to far more sophisticated synths from the time like dw6000 or jx8p which are way cheaper today.
I think remakes of true analog that happen today will be among the next classics if companies like behringer stop making them. The other classic synth might be something new that's quirky and has novelty and character that maybe defines a whole new emergent genre of music like the 303 did.
But I think that whatever it is , first has to be discontinued. That doesn't happen with software.
Not even with something legendary like my virus. Look at the latest software open-source recreation of that, someone just needs to put that in a box again or load it as some kind of update into future hardware and you can't tell the difference from that or my vintage one.
I have a few vintage synths 8p dx7 106 m6r.
I think out of just my modern synths, the ones I love the most for character or features are my minilogue which has a ton of character, and then, for features and portability and coolness: my reface cp is like an amazing and perfect invention. These might be the best examples of all my synths that might be modern classics if they stopped making them.
Today, imo, these big music companies only went back to a few true analog offerings because behringer pushed the market and has done such an absolutely amazing job bringing back an entire class of instruments... otherwise happy to be left behind by yhe oligopoly because of profitability and subscription models.
If B ever stopped making many of their classic renditions then many of those will be the new classic synths of the future even if only because the original ones are so unattainable. They have some truly amazing models for unbelievable price points like the next one I'm dying to get the ms-5.
And I'm very curious about their Jupiter 8 when that comes out. Right now we are in the middle of a period of tremendous hardware synth offerings at every price class. When discontinued we can say holy cow I remember when that synth only cost 599 to buy now it's thousands.
No Emax?! 😢
Well, it's only a Top 11 list. The Emax may be worthy, and of course, the Emulators are classics already. Thanks for the comment.
I think the first Motif can be a classic & the ASR-10
mfb synthpro for sure
EMULATOR 1/2/3 are already not classics but LEGENDARY gears….
E4 would access classic soon. as E3X
Ensoniq Mirage is already a BIG classic .
JD800 already a BIG classic ….
Roland VP330 LEGENDARY ( all Vangelis strings sounds, analog choir, DAFT PUNK ETC ETC)
Many are already at least classics : a microwave for exemple . K2600 is already classic
D50 , DX7 M1are legendary already ( legendary doesn’t mean a huge second hand price….)
MKS 20 Big classic
last but not least YAMAHA FS1R ….. no comment
So...in one video you say the D50 is entirely overhyped, and here you're saying it's going to be a future classic???
I truly don't remember saying that D-50 is overhyped. In this video at 9:20 I did say that the D-50, and a couple of others, have not been hyped beyond their true capabilities. I will say that regardless, it's possible for a keyboard to be overhyped, but still be a classic or a future classic.
@@JeffreyScottPetro it was in your 11 most overhyped synths video, ...(where you dissed the Xpander as well)...😲...i was up half the night reassuring mine it was still one of the best!