M390... Is like dating a stripper named "Brittany"... Expensive, impress your friends, a relationship more for show than the long term. Thanks for the video.. : )
Thanks for the test and continuing the m390 evals. Agreed that for the price it would be nice to see a bit more, but it’s a solid knife overall in construction.
I've gone back to knives that have CPM-154, 154CM, CPM-M4, hell even AUS- done well and honestly for edge retention and toughness M4 beats M390 ( I haven't chipped out an M4 blade even at high rockwell), and 154CM may go dull quicker but I tend to strop pretty regularly so the edge retention for me is moot unless I'm cutting miles of cardboard, in which case I'd be using an xacto knife. End of the day, these steels that have served me well, haven't all of a sudden stopped working well, the industry has just been pushing M390/204p for quite time and I appreciate a company that will do K390s, M4s, 3V, etc. I understand there are corrosion issues but if you maintain a tool steel I find the cutting performance hands down better than almost any stainless steel. Just treat it like you would a 1095 fixed blade.
Great assessment as usual G :) I totally agree with the Cruwear concept for this blade. It's really too bad the HT is not up to snuff on this example as its a great design overall.
I’m far far less experienced than you in this arena. I’ve had M390, 204P, and Elmax on this same knife and all 3 of them quickly let me know that I was going to be disappointed with regular use. It kills me bc I love the knife! Buttery smooth and they were often brought in to battle with my Gen 3 Arius in regards to smoothness. That said, I let all (3) of them go. I can absolutely follow a factory edge and reprofile with ease and confidence on my WickedEdge Gen 3 Pro with strops up to 0.5 Micron. Sadly, following repeated attempts, my results were very similar to yours. Thank you for your hard work my man. You’re not alone in your disappointment. 🤯
Howard Sheppard unfortunately with any industry sometimes products slip through the cracks. That’s why a warranty is there. You are correct things should be correct the first time, but as imperfect people things like this can happen from time to time. Not an excuse but we can fix most issues if people let us.
Excellent work Gerald. Interesting results to see for sure. I agree with you that a tool steel would be a much better choice for this knife. I do enjoy my SOCOMs though. Fantastic fidget knife.
I feel like “tactical folding knives” benefit from being very corrosion resistant. Most guys aren’t going to clean and oil a knife regularly. I’m too inexperienced to say which stainless would be best though. M390, 20cv, chip pretty easily in my experience. Not sure what stainless would be best for the socom.
I would go for Elmax or CPM s35vn, you can heat tread those to great toughness if you are willing to sacrifice some edge retention... for example Chris Reeve choose HRC 57 for his Pacific fixed blade compaire to his folding knives where they run the same steel much harder... or TRC out of Lituania who made their Apocalypse fixed out of Elmax... don't remember the HRC on those, but the guys from Dutch Bushcraft Knives (DBK here on youtube) tested it... that thing can take a beating...
Appreciate this video, I've purchased my second microtech both ludt one xhp other 204p . I did sharpened the xhp and is a very aggressive edge it takes! Would love to see how the ludt tests. It's a great edc!
M390;doesn't belong on that knife. That's the biggest reason I've overlooked this design that's for sure. 250 feet for me is a benchmark of what I believe m390 should test at, this came up a little shy. I would hope improvements have been made with the heat treat since 2018. Obviously I'd love for a newer steel to emerge, but that's a corporate decision. Would be nice if these companies held a pass around group within their own company. Randomly select a sample from each heat treat batch, and pass it around after a week or so of use. Or every third heat treat batch. First hand mediocre or sub-standard experiences will drive the engines of change if necessary. Not exactly a horrible display of performance here, but for the price Id want a little better.
I've been using it for food prep daily for the last 3 years and it seems that I have to sharpen it very often, once in 2 to 3 weeks, I think. The blade has become quite a bit smaller because of the constant sharpening. I wonder if edge retention is much worse in a wet condition.
Thanks for all the info. I have stopped buying the M390 series of steels because of all these tests. I am happy with my PM2 M390 and satisfied with my M390 Delica, but it seems most of the cases you are paying premium for the steel name without the premium performance. And you should really make your pug a part of the videos. Pugs make everything better.
I think you mentioned something on the spyderco forum that you're waiting for the M390 phase to run it's course. I would agree. So glad mine is a Bento Box Spyderco sprint run that I'm guessing is run at the right HRC.
Does Microtech even do tool steels? I think so much of their market is OTFs that never cut anything so maybe they're just maintaining the premium image with these steels. I don't think they're worried about stretched out edge retention.
I wonder how would the bronzed blade is gonna perform. Microtech said they used heat to apply the bronze finish. My guess is 200c, I wonder if they ruined the heat-treatment.
They are heat treating it a bit softer on purpose so it doesn’t chip as bad as high hardness m390. I agree that if they want tougher they should use a tougher steel
I'm assuming they don't really care about heat treatment. And they are using m390 to sell more knives because it's popular. Most microtech customers either don't use them or take them to the range to show off. And a few people actually do use them love using them because they are thin behind the edge, despite not keeping an edge as long as m390 should... it's long enough for most people, ie s35vn level. So it's pretty inconcernable to most people. So I don't think they are doing anything about it. Also microtech custom blades, microtech know people don't use and probably care less on the heat treatment they do for those, not to mention the belts they use to get the mirror polished probably over heat it alot. But hey they cost alot to limit people from using them. They also have had warranty issues with people sharpening there own knives, they don't like that. Then there's all the dirty things about Tony through the years, ie suing alot of people, his own family, talking shit about others and taking designs as his own. Not to mention lying about one of his girlfriends helping make one of his custom knives and getting called out on video about it. I really have a distaste for the brand overall. Sorry I brought it here, had to get it off my chest. Feel free to delete this comment if it's not for you. With that said thank you for testing these as well as everything else you test.
With all do respect. Basically nothing you have said is true. I outfit countless special forces, other military, fire, and police depts with these....people use these knives. I also know tons of people who buy the customs and use them and carry them. We also don’t use belts to mirror polish knives....so yea. We also don’t care if people sharpen their own knives....the warranty issues come in when people sharpen their own knives and ruin the blades.
@@TennisPro4686289 @Corey Campbell so he didn't due a blogger, didn't sue zt, and didn't sue a family member? I've seen the public court documents. I saw the video with his gf at the time make up things she helped with. I saw his fb post shitting on the natrix. Everyone's seen the matrix copy the 777. I've read the forum posts of warranty denial for sharpening there own knives with pictures showing nothing wrong. 🤷♂️ Shrug This was an interesting thread www.bladeforums.com/threads/natrix-vs-matrix-the-0777-quagmire.1464781/
Tactical Center haha it just shows you don’t really know what you’re talking about. Some of that’s true of course. But I didn’t mention any of that and you clearly avoided my points as it shows you don’t really understand what we do. I can tell you a knife hadn’t been turned away for years just because it was self sharpened.
@@TennisPro4686289 I've got an at the time of purchase, an $1800 carbon fiber anex that ain't worth $200 because of the m390 edge retention on it. I may be a little salty. Any idea if the company may do an improvement to the m390 or use different steel options that may be a better option?
M390... Is like dating a stripper named "Brittany"... Expensive, impress your friends, a relationship more for show than the long term. Thanks for the video.. : )
Thanks for the test and continuing the m390 evals. Agreed that for the price it would be nice to see a bit more, but it’s a solid knife overall in construction.
I've gone back to knives that have CPM-154, 154CM, CPM-M4, hell even AUS- done well and honestly for edge retention and toughness M4 beats M390 ( I haven't chipped out an M4 blade even at high rockwell), and 154CM may go dull quicker but I tend to strop pretty regularly so the edge retention for me is moot unless I'm cutting miles of cardboard, in which case I'd be using an xacto knife.
End of the day, these steels that have served me well, haven't all of a sudden stopped working well, the industry has just been pushing M390/204p for quite time and I appreciate a company that will do K390s, M4s, 3V, etc. I understand there are corrosion issues but if you maintain a tool steel I find the cutting performance hands down better than almost any stainless steel. Just treat it like you would a 1095 fixed blade.
Tool steel master race.
Great assessment as usual G :)
I totally agree with the Cruwear concept for this blade.
It's really too bad the HT is not up to snuff on this example as its a great design overall.
I'd love to see it in M4.
Great vid as always. Would have liked more comparison info with the 204p.👍
I’m far far less experienced than you in this arena. I’ve had M390, 204P, and Elmax on this same knife and all 3 of them quickly let me know that I was going to be disappointed with regular use. It kills me bc I love the knife! Buttery smooth and they were often brought in to battle with my Gen 3 Arius in regards to smoothness. That said, I let all (3) of them go. I can absolutely follow a factory edge and reprofile with ease and confidence on my WickedEdge Gen 3 Pro with strops up to 0.5 Micron. Sadly, following repeated attempts, my results were very similar to yours. Thank you for your hard work my man. You’re not alone in your disappointment. 🤯
I had two of these and sold them both. Great action and build quality with butter-soft ‘super steel.’ No thanks. Not at those prices.
Kurt did test one at 57 hrc, I would have liked to test that one and see what it would have done.
Howard Sheppard that’s what our warranty is for
Corey Campbell Well, I could also say that’s what your heat treat ovens SHOULD be for...
Howard Sheppard unfortunately with any industry sometimes products slip through the cracks. That’s why a warranty is there. You are correct things should be correct the first time, but as imperfect people things like this can happen from time to time. Not an excuse but we can fix most issues if people let us.
Excellent work Gerald. Interesting results to see for sure. I agree with you that a tool steel would be a much better choice for this knife. I do enjoy my SOCOMs though. Fantastic fidget knife.
I feel like “tactical folding knives” benefit from being very corrosion resistant. Most guys aren’t going to clean and oil a knife regularly. I’m too inexperienced to say which stainless would be best though. M390, 20cv, chip pretty easily in my experience. Not sure what stainless would be best for the socom.
I would go for Elmax or CPM s35vn, you can heat tread those to great toughness if you are willing to sacrifice some edge retention... for example Chris Reeve choose HRC 57 for his Pacific fixed blade compaire to his folding knives where they run the same steel much harder... or TRC out of Lituania who made their Apocalypse fixed out of Elmax... don't remember the HRC on those, but the guys from Dutch Bushcraft Knives (DBK here on youtube) tested it... that thing can take a beating...
Magnacut !!
Appreciate this video, I've purchased my second microtech both ludt one xhp other 204p . I did sharpened the xhp and is a very aggressive edge it takes! Would love to see how the ludt tests. It's a great edc!
M390;doesn't belong on that knife. That's the biggest reason I've overlooked this design that's for sure. 250 feet for me is a benchmark of what I believe m390 should test at, this came up a little shy. I would hope improvements have been made with the heat treat since 2018. Obviously I'd love for a newer steel to emerge, but that's a corporate decision. Would be nice if these companies held a pass around group within their own company. Randomly select a sample from each heat treat batch, and pass it around after a week or so of use. Or every third heat treat batch. First hand mediocre or sub-standard experiences will drive the engines of change if necessary. Not exactly a horrible display of performance here, but for the price Id want a little better.
I've been using it for food prep daily for the last 3 years and it seems that I have to sharpen it very often, once in 2 to 3 weeks, I think. The blade has become quite a bit smaller because of the constant sharpening. I wonder if edge retention is much worse in a wet condition.
Agree 100% the socom deserves a better steel option for sure
I got an Elmamax version. I love it.
Oh man Socom Elite in cruwear or 3v..... YES PLEASE!
Thanks for all the info. I have stopped buying the M390 series of steels because of all these tests. I am happy with my PM2 M390 and satisfied with my M390 Delica, but it seems most of the cases you are paying premium for the steel name without the premium performance. And you should really make your pug a part of the videos. Pugs make everything better.
I may sneak him in some more and Pugs do make everything better.
I think you mentioned something on the spyderco forum that you're waiting for the M390 phase to run it's course. I would agree. So glad mine is a Bento Box Spyderco sprint run that I'm guessing is run at the right HRC.
Thanks for sharing and keep up the great work...
Thank you
Does Microtech even do tool steels? I think so much of their market is OTFs that never cut anything so maybe they're just maintaining the premium image with these steels. I don't think they're worried about stretched out edge retention.
The Stitch has been available in 3V in the past.
I wonder how would the bronzed blade is gonna perform. Microtech said they used heat to apply the bronze finish. My guess is 200c, I wonder if they ruined the heat-treatment.
If it's below the temper temperature it shouldn't have an effect to worry about. I'd think thier initial temper would be a good bit higher than that.
Sub-par and some serious issues with QA on the grind.. pretty sad considering the cost and reputation.
Warranty would have fixed that by replacing the blade.
They are heat treating it a bit softer on purpose so it doesn’t chip as bad as high hardness m390. I agree that if they want tougher they should use a tougher steel
rolling is just as bad as chipping, soft knives are weak knives
I'm assuming they don't really care about heat treatment. And they are using m390 to sell more knives because it's popular. Most microtech customers either don't use them or take them to the range to show off. And a few people actually do use them love using them because they are thin behind the edge, despite not keeping an edge as long as m390 should... it's long enough for most people, ie s35vn level. So it's pretty inconcernable to most people. So I don't think they are doing anything about it.
Also microtech custom blades, microtech know people don't use and probably care less on the heat treatment they do for those, not to mention the belts they use to get the mirror polished probably over heat it alot. But hey they cost alot to limit people from using them. They also have had warranty issues with people sharpening there own knives, they don't like that.
Then there's all the dirty things about Tony through the years, ie suing alot of people, his own family, talking shit about others and taking designs as his own. Not to mention lying about one of his girlfriends helping make one of his custom knives and getting called out on video about it. I really have a distaste for the brand overall. Sorry I brought it here, had to get it off my chest. Feel free to delete this comment if it's not for you.
With that said thank you for testing these as well as everything else you test.
With all do respect. Basically nothing you have said is true. I outfit countless special forces, other military, fire, and police depts with these....people use these knives. I also know tons of people who buy the customs and use them and carry them. We also don’t use belts to mirror polish knives....so yea. We also don’t care if people sharpen their own knives....the warranty issues come in when people sharpen their own knives and ruin the blades.
@@TennisPro4686289 @Corey Campbell so he didn't due a blogger, didn't sue zt, and didn't sue a family member? I've seen the public court documents. I saw the video with his gf at the time make up things she helped with. I saw his fb post shitting on the natrix. Everyone's seen the matrix copy the 777. I've read the forum posts of warranty denial for sharpening there own knives with pictures showing nothing wrong. 🤷♂️ Shrug
This was an interesting thread www.bladeforums.com/threads/natrix-vs-matrix-the-0777-quagmire.1464781/
Tactical Center haha it just shows you don’t really know what you’re talking about. Some of that’s true of course. But I didn’t mention any of that and you clearly avoided my points as it shows you don’t really understand what we do. I can tell you a knife hadn’t been turned away for years just because it was self sharpened.
@@TennisPro4686289 I've got an at the time of purchase, an $1800 carbon fiber anex that ain't worth $200 because of the m390 edge retention on it. I may be a little salty. Any idea if the company may do an improvement to the m390 or use different steel options that may be a better option?
@@tacticalcenter8658 Are you wanting to unload that? I'll give you $200 for it right now. Those look sweet, so let me know!
Needs to be done in s390
It would be a beast of a knife then
Or even better, K390.
Pathetically poor heat treat for a 'premium' knife.
Its for combat. The steel is almost irrelevant.
A folding knife for combat? Bad idea. Its for the showcase mate. Good design, bad steel.
@@pandamacska Agreed. Folding knives are not best for combat. The brand does sell it as such though. I never understood that. Marketing, I guess.
it's not for combat, it's for posting on the internets