Nostalgia VS Wokeness? | Doctor Who: The Star Beast Review Discussion
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
- 18 Years ago Russell T Davies saved Doctor Who. Can he do it again or does a perceived view of Woke-ness stand in the way? What will happen with Davros? Is David Tenant Enough?
Progressive mind worms don't necessarily make it trash bit it'll alway stop it being great.
The thought process that believes having Davros in a " wheelchair" portrays all disabled people as evil will alway be alien to me.
In other words, it's the BUZZ KILL.
Honestly RTD just missed the opportunity to throw a line like "it's a shame you're not half human so you can't understand" so it could be a nice joke regarding the TV movie. Also it would make more sense to the plot resolution.
And a nice nod to the Doctor/Donna as well. Donna said in Journey's End that having that Human gut instinct with the timelord intelligence allowed her to think of ideas faster than the Doctor.
As regards the letting go bit, I would simply have written something along the lines of ' you wouldn't understand because you are a Time Lord, but we are now 2 humans sharing this and we choose to let it go...' or something like that. Which also sends a positive for us humans 😊
I think the messaging was a bit awkward and heavy handed at times, but I’m happy with the episode overall. So great to spend time with David Tenant and Catherine Tate again. Thought the episode was fun and creative. Really enjoyed it despite some of the clumsy dialogue. Also happy trans people were shown some love. The extreme hatred toward other human beings I see all over the internet and media outlets is appalling to me. I just can’t comprehend that kind of intolerance toward other people.
When so many videos and comments sections look like... *waves at RUclips*... thanks for uploading this in-depth, measured, fun review that brings up some excellent points I've not seen anyone else touch on and doing so in a really chill, fair way. Subscribed 😊
I liked the comment " its nice nostalgia and then you get slapped with the message." I also like the quality of this video. I'm going to subscribe, cause I like your views.
Just imagine if the roles were reversed and Jodie had two male companions tell her she couldn't understand something "becasue you're a woman". The internet would be furious.
Also, it kinda looked like Shirley inhaled some of the energy from Donna and Rose but after a second watch, she just blows it^^
The "cybermen" figures in the opening scene have been outside Cyberdog for many years now. Not sure they'll be used as a callback.
Ohhhh! Yeah we had no idea being Aussies haha. Good to know
Looks like a cool place
I actually like that she is bringing the pronouns up cause she would be the most likely to notice first. Someone that is probably cis isn't dealing with pronouns all that often, So it makes sense for her character
When do “trans” people deal with pronouns? She/her and such are what you say when talking about someone not to that person. So why would they deal with that more than normal people?
I think they should have kept the trans stuff out. Keeo the actor, but don't center issues around her like the whole deadnaming thing. In the end of the day, the main point isnt trans problems, I really don't care of their problems and don't expect others to care about mine, the main point is getting the meep to safety
This comment, to me, shows pretty much the root of the issue. A lack of empathy for others. You don't care and so other people shouldn't either.
It's a thing trans people have to deal with, and it was to show that, vs healthy, supportive family. It was done so pretty gracefully - in like 5 minutes of runtime. The episode was not focused on 'the whole deadnaming thing'. That's your bias and your inability to move on from an argument that's been done to death now speaking.
@@DutchHeathen It's not just the trans thing but the gender thing as a whole. Wokeness has been pushed so hard in tv I am becoming anti woke and just roll my eyes every time I hear "diversity" it's killing media, it's no wonder why all these shows and movies suck, you might like them but as a whole they bomb again and again. Also theres always going to be people that are assholes to certain demographics, having a scene "respecting" pronouns isn't going to change peoples minds
@@WhyDoINeedOneOfThese Why the quotation marks?
I don't mind the clumsy "woke" "pandering" (I'm not the kinda person who complains about everything being woke), I thought the Doctor Donna twist was stupid. The whole episode I was terrified of her dying, and all her actions and words were important somehow. This kinda ruined some emotional moments like the tardis reveal and made the comical moment of the coffee glitch kinda jarring. But I still have a theory that we may still lose her before Ncuti joins us.
But also Sylvia, Rose and Shaun have been fleshed out so well that they might be recurring characters (it's not a secret how RTD loves to craft a world with recurring characters)
Shaun, is that the father? The guy was a terrible character, seems like someone snipped him as well. His wife won’t take his name, his daughter won’t take his name. His wife gave away all their money so he now needs to work. “But I got the 2 best girls in the world” ok m8, I doubt they are giving your balls back though.
My Roman Empire is Rose and the doctor saying goodbye
Crazy y’all compared this to the force awakens which is also a mediocre let down of a film/series continuation and refer to both as being good. Idk maybe you were trying to say it’s good on first watch especially with an audience and friends but then watching it in solitude and thinking about what the hell actually happened overtime changes your perspective drastically.
I'll have to rewatch to remember tbh haha. The new season has clouded my mind so much. Possible though yeah that all the elements were there but it didn't give itself any good way to grow and just falls flatter on rewatches
Doctor Who has always been woke since 2005.
Doccy who has been woke since 1963!
@@burgunbeerd haha no. Not when the first doctor was threatening to give girls smacked bottoms.
Since 1963. Classic Doctor Who dealt with topics ranging from fascism, racism, sexism, feminism, taxes, global warming, segregation etc
I agree Doctor Who has been progressive since its inception. Everyone screaming about how progressive the show has become in recent years puzzle me. It’s always been that way. Star Trek fans are much the same about their favorite show. Science fiction and fantasy in general tend to be genres that explore more progressive topics of the day.
@@loftus4453 yes exactly and especially since 2005.
If anyone thinks this is more Woke (sic) than DW was in 1988-1990 or under Chibnall (or even under the other Nu W regimes), I don't know. I must be missing something and would love to know how this balance was supposed to be so egregiously tipped...
btw I am serious so over to you...
You probably don't understand because you don't understand what people mean when they say woke. Woke is a crowbar term that essentially comes down to bad writing. People just cant verbalise their feelings properly. Barely anyone has issues with politics/progressiveness in their shows. What they do have a problem with is how it is written these days. It is so on the nose and the focus of modern writing that it pulls people out of the story. Take for example Rose in this episode. The only reason she is a character in this is to be trans. Her character is trans, her dialogue is trans related and her plot point is trans related. She is typecast as a trans character because she is trans. Proper inclusion for a trans character would for her to play Tates daughter and that's it. I am pretty sure the actress playing Rose didn't transition to have being trans her entire identity. Because of this her character is completely irrelevant to the plot, she doesn't even need to be there outside of being a child of Donna to split the meta crisis, and her being trans is not important to that. So rather than focussing on the story the whole aspect of her being trans becomes injected all through the episode. And this is usually the case with "woke" writing. We had decades of characters just existing in all different walks of life, but now that is their entire defining trait and is brought up all the time. A key part of tv shows is to show dont tell. And woke writing tends to be tell dont show and its awful. They usually also do it so clumsily and at the expense of other aspects that it comes across nasty. Jodies character was the same. Her being a woman became her most defining trait and it was brought up all time time at the expense of men. (i thought the doctor was a man, i had an upgrade). All her stories were political storylines over sci fi storylines. She would have episodes about the environment and instead of it being weaved cleverly into a sci fi narrative the writers spent the whole episode talking about modern day, she would lecture the viewer through the companions but was talking to us, telling us we were all going to die if we didnt recycle. heck in that particular episode she breaks the fourth wall and actively lectures the viewer lol. Its just bad writing all around.
@@charg1nmalaz0r51
No I know what it means! It's just that people on the Right abuse the term now even more than those on the "Left" as it's a modern perjorative; it really should be used in quotation marks as it's a reductive term to trigger the people they're targeting basically which is why it's become moronic and I no longer use the term for that reason.
The actual authentic meaning of that word historically is completely different.
Anyway I appreciate the effort in your reply but I really didn't take in the full terror of the previous era because I lost all enthusiasm mainly because of the passe nature of the show recently but yes the virtue signalling didn't help. Where I would beg to differ is because of Russell's constant nodding terms to the actual LGBT+ [CONTRUCT] CULTURALLY (not merely the politics but actually the Creative Industrial aspect and the people in it) that I believe he may have decided to cast the performer in Who before alighting on casting the CHARACTERISTIC on Donna's child (e.g. he wanted the actor in Who as someone ANYWAY before deciding that was the central motivation behind THIS character and how the character was being seen - e.g. the character could have been bullied or "otherized" for other less "trendy" reasons in any other script but elements came together and he settled on this.) This is me being charitable to RTD. Also I think McCoy's last two seasons were really ahead of their time in walking this particular tightrope which can be viewed as a good thing and a bad thing (usually they got it right but sometimes it could be very jarring!).
Finally after 16 years, I get to stop crying about the way Donna lost everything and couldn't even remember it.
Oh, and I totally missed the Trans thing XD
Jody cant act in anything she's in... and her Doctor was written by a maniac who needed throwing out the BBC writers room like a some skit, where an old heavy typewriter gets thrown on top of him just out of screen, and he's never seen again.
The reason she gave that money up... is that they wanted Donna and Rose to be Victims... can't be a Victim if you're rich as fuck because the doctor gave you a lottery ticket. She could've helped millions and still stayed rich. They didn't want her to be privileged. Anyway, it wasn't the trans stuff... it wasn't that they hired a 20 year old to play a 15 year old who if you were good at math ... would actually be 13 years old. The grandma said it's been 15 years since donna lost her memory/ doctor. Figure 1 year to meet her husband and 9 month to have a baby... she's 13 or 14. It's just math and biology. Anyway, I'm upset because of the bad story and the constant attacks on the doctor. They called him a dumb man that would have never figure out that he can just let go of the power... even though when the original rose had the same/similar power... he helped her release it unto himself killing ekelson. Anyway, they could've said that having two of them will make it easy to dissipate it. Even the alonze... he said it getting into a cab.... not jumping a cliff or anything climatic. There were soo many ways this story could've been done better. I didn't even realize rose was trans. I had a feeling but I wasn't sure. Also the whole dead naming thing... I was like... what did they say? Why is she upset? It some ways, I would've made that more clear..
This was a hugely disappointing story. I had tuned out from new Doctor Who at the end of Capaldis run after skipping most of Smiths seasons and the end of Tenents. A direct adaptation of the Star Beast was a mistake since you already know the story. The super bad and cringy writing will not win back old fans who gave up nor win any meaningful number of new fans. The ease of the meta crisis being solved because a male can't figure it out is so flawed because the Doctor was female for ages and didn't think hey I know how to help my friend was mind I wiped to save from dying. Cyberdog has been a main stay of Camden market for decades and the statues outside have been there just as long :D It's just a known tourist attraction :)
always been woke, but never preechy like this and bringing down other groups of people. It's distracting.
Its definitely far less subtle. Not as bad as Chibnall though IMO
"Never preachy" you ever watched this show?
You haven't watched the show, huh? The whole show is preachy since 1963.
@@friendlyotaku9525 i have you havent
@@Ins0mnia365 you clearly haven't
Great video! You guys remind me of Red Letter Media 👌
I can see millions of videos upset about Rose and the wokeness of the story, but I love it as simply a piece of enjoyable fiction and I'm happy to ignore stuff to enjoy my doctor who
I think a lot of people have shared that mindset, however if you find yourself having to "ignore" too many scenes the show becomes unwatchable.
@dazjackson1972 not in my mind, if something sticks out to me as definitely inforcing a message (like Rose calling the doctor out for not asking the Meep's pronouns) I am more than happy to continue watching and pretend it didn't happen as its the reality of the world we live in now
@@emily_boo_19 not the reality of my world.
I've never seen a Transgender person being harassed in the street - I also worked with a transwoman back in 2003-05 and never witnessed any abuse.
Thats good for you and i used to be the same. But you have to understand that this stuff has been injected into every form of entertainment now and when you see the same stuff in every show, trust me you finally end up getting to the point where its inclusion takes you out of the storyline and you start eyerolling and not enjoying yourself as much as you should.
Wait, did that woman in the wheelchair just cross her legs without using her hands? That's not how being paraplegic works.
We were also confused but I googled the actress and she has Spina Bifida so needs the wheelchair but isn't paralyzed
There are various reasons why people would need the use of wheelchairs from being paralysed to having something like Spina Bifida or motor neurone disease like Stephen Hawking or old age or even something as simple as a broken leg or limb. It's a case by case situation that can also differ to various degrees. Some people can manage short distances or some mobility on their own accord but using a wheelchair does makes it easier and a lot more ideal for them to get around if that makes sense.
Pro's: The main cast,The Doctor, Donna, Sylvia, didn't miss a beat from the characters as they were. The music, really missed that. The look, it felt like a well budgeted production. Overall fun to watch. Con's Rose a 13-14 year old? Nope and Donna put it best about the portraitle "can't act". The Meep a genocidal sentientivore in a wheelchair thorn (just destroyed the image of the UNIT Science Advisor in her tricked out "Bond" chair(Bravo! Loved her!). "Way to RTD!" says the Avengers Mother from old BBC), the appt pronoun? SHEHEIT!What a MONSTER! The story, a plot lifted from an 80's comic book rewritten with all intentions of seeing who it could piss off.(Sorry, the shock value of it wore off after the Chibnall era, more insulting to the inclusive for attempting) The easy out of the medacris (too Disney"Let it Go" just left me frozen.) the new TARDIS, lovely set but not very friendly more of a ramp way in a hospital than a control room. If you can be selective in viewing (as is no problem for an old fart like m'self) it's a good watch and not a terrible waste of an hour.
Despite hating the episode, I liked the fact that the power being split by 2 saved her... they should've kept the power... used it for a few episode... then use it to ressurect a dead doctor or something. Like river song when she saved the doctor after poisoning them .
I'm glad some people enjoyed this, but to me it was very disappointing. Keep all the trans nonsense out of Doctor Who. It's a kids show. I guess I'll scratch this one off my list of my favourite franchises that have been ruined beyond recovery.
It’s not a kids show, and if the simple fact of one character being trans is enough to make you stop watching all together then that’s just sad and you weren’t a fan anyway
@@josephhedderman9897You seem to be implying that real fans should continue to watch the show, regardless of how ridiculous it becomes.
Most people aren't tuning out because of a single incident - it's the general trend of woke messaging over good content.
The social propaganda is hamfisted and feels like being hit about the face with a dead fish.
@@dazjackson1972 it’s not woke messaging, it’s just common sense messages typically. I agree that they were a bit in our faces with the pronoun scene for Meep, but that’s it, the trans part is all fine and the show has put important messages in it since its creation, nothing new, just the viewers decided to care now
@@josephhedderman9897 The show is more woke now than it ever has been - even more so than the McCoy era, which killed the original run.
Social messaging needs to be delivered skillfully, with possibly a contrary opinion once in a while.
The fact that a show has always had a social conscience, doesn't give future writers carte blanche to stack scripts with woke drivel.
@@dazjackson1972 again, not saying this one was particularly good, but the show has always been this way, people just choose to complain when it contests their own personal views
you actually watch this dog s. Its insulting to all (almost) original doctor who fans. Can not believe there are still actually people giving this crud even a passing glance.
The special was just that, a special made by special people 😂
Davros being in a wheel chair never defined him..... also that wheel chair lady had a manual wheel chair with rockets and darts... maybe put a motor on your chair... maybe hover chair or exo skeleton. Anyway, You can say it's a young davros before he got injured. Hopefully future Davros is also young or exo skeleton...
Your utter cluelessness is showing through, here. The Star Beast was an excellent partial adaptation of the classic comic story from 1980, and both the Meep and the Wrarth Warriors were totally comic accurate. How couldn't you appreciate that?