Aikido Black Belt vs BJJ Black Belt
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- Опубликовано: 15 окт 2024
- After 15 years of Aikido practice and 4 years of BJJ I decided to try my Aikido against a BJJ black belt. Here's what happened.
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Welcome to the Martial Arts Journey. My name is Rokas. I trained Aikido for 15 years, 7 of them running a professional Aikido Dojo until eventually I realized that Aikido does not live up to what it promises.
Lead by this realization I decided to make a daring step to close my Aikido Dojo and move to Portland, Oregon for six months to start training MMA at the famous Straight Blast Gym Headquarters under head coach Matt Thornton.
After six months intensive training I had my first amateur MMA fight after which I moved back to Lithuania. During all of this time I am documenting my experience through my RUclips channel called "Martial Arts Journey".
Now I am slowly setting up plans to continue training MMA under quality guidance and getting ready for my next MMA fight as I further document and share my journey and discoveries.
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#Aikido #BJJ #MartialArts
If you want to see footage of the full training become a member of the martial arts journey tribe by joining the channel!
If you are already a member - you'll find the video here: ruclips.net/video/E8yfyx4L4AU/видео.html
So when are you going to try out judo? With you training in bjj and aikido i'm sure you'll get the hang of it quickly
That was a fun experience, big thanks to Rokas for inviting me to do this. :) My advice to both haters and likers: go and test your technique in a new environment. It won't always work the way you expect, but it's a good experience in any case. I've tested my jiu-jitsu in different arts, learned a lot and enjoyed the journey. :) I remember my first attempts trying to take down an elite judo player or elite wrestler over 10 years ago, my landings improved a lot in a single session! :D Still far away from that level, but still learning. No substitute for experience. -Jari Anttila
Thank you for sharing your whole journey.
Make these videos that show BJJ and Aikido. These are unreal videos. Aikido has no real efficiency at all. Different from BJJ.
@@alexandrebreck Is this your first time on this channel?
It's almost as if Aikido could be improved with sparring and pressure testing like most martial arts.
Almost... 🤔😂
It wouldn’t be aikido then it would be something else. What you’re describing would be like what happened with Kano Jigoro. He pressure tested Japanese Jujutsu, and a lot of techniques were “weeded out” so to speak because they didn’t hold up. Then Judo was born.
Grappling is just grappling. It would just end up as wrestling/bjj/judo with Aikido wristlocks lol. The only thing that separates these systems is the ruleset
@@echofoxtrotwhiskey1595 The context is important though. How come Judo guys don't just punch each other in the face? Surely punches "work". How did they get weeded out. How come in this video Aikido bro never just elbowed the other guy in the face? Context of training is a thing.
@@tubesism judo actually has a lot of punchs and kicks tho. It's only that you wouldnt learn it in a sport focused dojo becaused it was banned to differentiate judo from karate (karate also had lots of grapling that people dont learn unless they go after old versions for the same reason).
It's like a MMA-focused muay thay class, that most likely will not teach techniques banned in MMA rules unless the student actively goes after it.
This makes me think this is how these techniques were originally meant to be used, but after decades of being filtered through bad training practices and bullshido the actual practicality and application got lost along the way.
Exactly this ^
Good point Rizwan! I think so too, that without pressure testing a lot of it has been stylized and watered down.
I read somewhere that in the early days, Ueshiba would regularly cross-train his students with judoka. I really wish there were videos of a form of aikido that would hold be able to hold its ground against a good judoka.
Ellis Amdur has a much better explanation, that deals with what he calls "esoteric power training", ie. particular type of solo gymnastic exercises that are at least partially derived from esoteric practices of Shingon Buddhism and Shinto mysticism. The rabbit hole goes far deeper than that, but that is the simplest way to put it.
Contextually accurate applications of these techniques are still found everywhere in Japanese koryu arts, where they are still trained in their accurate medieval military framework. In that context the sportive wrestling distance as showed in the video would have already ended up with a knife up someone's armpit.
Probably they could be used against some ancient weapons, when a hand cannot be easily retracted after it is stretched out. That would make sense.
Dude, hopefully this is a whole series where you go through the Aikido curriculum and try to make the techniques functional. Itd be cool to see you build it into something functional.
We're looking into making it happen 😁👊
@@MartialArtsJourney Come on man....That is original Aikijutsu....your going in circles....the answers were always there in the beginning.
@@MartialArtsJourney we need a update
I like your project a lot! And as a Brazilian Iam proud of the BJJ martial art utility!
My Aikido master teached us about this, actually. We were studying the main techniques, and how they were design to fight in ample spaces, imagining an opponent surging in your line of vision with a knife or sword advancing.
If you can't induce the oposition to run through you, the technique would be useless.
Shikanai sensei is a wonderful man. He always come up with discussions like this. He also brings fighting techniques from other martial arts or sports.
Though we treat Aikido not as am effective fighting technique, rather we use it to learn more about motion, focus, health, discipline and seld development.
and the training is more like a study class, in which we all discuss the techniques, the physical and tactical utility of it and etc.
Gosh! I miss Aikido
Good to here that. Also, about the health part, the oldest man in Taiwan (where I live) doing Aikido is more then 90 years old now, and he is still able to do some of the toris. Leaving the effective question apart, the fact that he is still doing sports and keep himself healthy is almost like a miracle, haha.
@@fore3063 Nice! This is the way 👌
Want a second part of this video...
🙏 Friday 😊 And then next week I'll be releasing pressure testing of Aikido knife defense
@@MartialArtsJourney we'll be waiting 🥰😍
Just a second?
He could make a whole Series out of this!
@@Kev.in1997 i agree with you !! And he can start a new journey ! 😍
Yes pleas Maby the like a video they trust to look at using the primary prisipuls of ikedo but modified the exiktion for etch one
Id love to see these attempted on someone who's more of a beginner than your coach. Especially now that you've had some assistance from him in refining. Like the one you pulled off in a competition.
Hey d20Fitness! I am thinking about it too. I'll probably get a white belt with me on camera soon enough and will see the results :)
Speaking from personal experience, these work really well on people who don't have martial arts training. Which is the vast majority of people.
@@ScottGarrettDrums I agree, I'd say karate and aikido is workable mostly if done by surprise or against inferior opponents
Im a blue belt and have gotten these rolling with all ranks. Sankyo is handy because you don't need a backstop like most wristlocks in BJJ.
@@MartialArtsJourney wrist locks illegal for white belts. be quite an ass to try on them, get a blue to try on :)
Yes! This reminds me of my Aikido school. One of my instructors is a BJJ practitioner. This is like our afterclass training for advanced students. We pressure test our Aikido techniques like this. I wish Aikido schools would adapt to these type of training. Great video! 😊
Making your Aikido more functional. I like it!
One step at a time! 😁👊
@@MartialArtsJourney Hey what is Jaris surname?
Coincidentally, my BJJ teacher actually tapped me with a Sankyo. We were training live starting from standing. I gripped his collar to control the distance and set up a judo throw. He responded with a Sankyo on the hand I just used to grip his collar!
@@MartialArtsJourney Are you from Finland?
I’ve had the last one done to me in the gi by a BJJ practitioner who used to fight MMA. I asked him if it was aikido and he said he didn’t know. He had just grappled enough in his life to be able to improvise.
Wrist locks are not Just in aikido.
Ju jutsu, bujinkan and a few others have these or a variation of them.
Aikido acctuly has quite alot of nasty wrist, elbow locks, many times combined with a throw.
This guy is impressive. He is a true fighter. He didn't just give up when all his years poured into Aikido didn't give him the necessary skills to fight proven disciplines. He learnt from it, and bettered himself. Actually rose up in BJJ
This is one of the clearest illustrations of the importance of pressure testing I’ve ever seen. Nicely done, Rokas!
Thanks Shelby 🙏
It's crazy to think a BJJ guy figured out how to use your akido before you did.
Thé beauty of pressure testing and constant fighting!
👊
You can't teach experience ;)
As long as the technique actually works its possible to figure out how to modify it for a bjj context
The hardest part after this is probably trying to figure out how to apply this "new technique" under real pressure
I train BJJ myself and my coach had told me that he trained with a few Aikidokas in the past. He claims Aikido can definitely work, but it needs DECADES of constant practice before many people feel comfortable using those techniques.
No it's not. If you know Aikido, you know there is tons of stuff that he doesn't get about the art. His explanations are the proof.
maybe this is how aikido should have been but then after they stopped pressure testing and made it more of an art/ performance only the ideas were kept.
Glad to see you are not just dismissing Akido man. ^^ Keep up these fantastic videos.
Thank you EM H
So far the lessons I've learned from this channel:
1) Don't dismiss "old" martial arts... they have (had?) applications in the past, they just currently tend to be watered down versions. Some techniques have surprising applications (in a limited sense)
2) Cross Train... to fill gaps that are in every form of specialized martial art.
3) Pressure test / Spar... get into a good gym that will pressure and test you, without breaking you. Resistance helps improve techniques, as well as build character ;)
4) Last but not the least, keep your ego in check. By far people who I've seen improve the most in any discipline are those who keep their ego well in check and constantly ask for feedback on what/how to improve. People like this tend to be a few "levels" higher than their counterparts with the same amount of years in the discipline.
Good job sir and keep it up! It's an inspiring thing to behold especially for us plebs who just got into martial arts and try to improve our lot in life :D
Well put! Thank you
I'm a big fan of your Batman shirt, Rokas
Thank you! It was actually given to me as a gift by a BJJ black belt at the very start of my BJJ journey, so I extra cherish it 😁 Love Batman too of course.
Big fan of your Rokas, Batman shirt.
@@MartialArtsJourney Hey Rokas you should do an "aikido vs judo" video also. It would be really interesting. I also did aikido and went thrue a lot of the same things that you did.
Disclaimer 1: Yoshinkan Aikido ( blackbelt ) and Judo ( brown belt )
Disclaimer 2: Absolutely love your video journey !
1. The best aikidoka began as judoka. Why? Body positioning and movement. Judo is all about understanding footwork and center of gravity. Judo, like wrestling, develops a strong center line. Aikido teaches you to move with that strong core.. Judo gets you to the joint lock position, aikido finishes it efficiently. Goshin Jitsu is the result.
2. Using your core ( as did your instructor ) is the way Takeno Sensei teaches in Japan. It teaches you to use your core, move with your core, and to keep your elbows in ( as did your instructor ). Hand speed is a must. Covid sucks without a training partner.
3. Gotta be honest, kettle training is second to none is getting one to understand core movement ( hip hinge ) + joint mobility.
Love your videos. Love that you are keeping it real.
Rokas, when I first saw this, I was like YES! That's exactly what was taught to us by our Aikido instructor. There's this idea of keeping it close to your body so to not create a space for escape. Also, you have a stronger force if its close to your center, like opening a jar lid as an example, where you keep it closer before twisting it open. I'm surprised you didn't realize this earlier on your Aikido training.
Your coach does it the way we learn it in Japanese Ju jitsu, especially Kote gaechi.
Great video!! I added some of the techniques I learned in earning a JJJ black belt to my game after I got my BJJ black belt. Deeper knowledge of grappling made the old techniques come alive. Your videos have only gotten better. OSS.
15 year Aikidoka and doesn't know how to apply a wrist turn and needed the bjj guy to explain it???? i wanted to be on this guy's side but he is clearly not starting his journey in a place of strength or dare i say a high level of skill. good luck my man.
I did Mochizuki (Yoseikan) Aikido literally forty years ago. Only for a year and a half. The way the BJJ coach brought the wrist locks in close to his chest was exactly what we were shown to make an aikido technique effective against a resistant opponent.
People have been saying this for a really long time. Aikido doesn't know its own range. Put differently, aikido is a grappling martial art who's students have convinced themselves is not a grappling martial art.
You have probably thought of this already, but I use a decent amount of this stuff in non standing positions. Closed guard, top side, s mount, as grip breaks or setups to other sweeps or throws. Think conceptually instead of technique by technique.
I can show you several ways to use Aikido techniques while rolling in BJJ. Sankyo is most useful as a back escape, or from guard. You can get a nikkyo by getting to an omoplata position. The sankyo is the most high percentage technique Im able to get regularly on all belt ranks.
Much respect for your honesty and openness
Wrist locks are quite hard in grappling, as a good grappler can defend against them. Nikkyo, Kotegaeshi can be done to white belts, as they will take such grips where their hands are vulnerable and they don't continue to better position or let go. Such grips happen more often when fighting with knives, sticks and swords, as controlling the knife wielding hand is more important.
I'm pretty sure Aikido was originally made for samurai fighting in armor
Yeah. Trying to get a knife is easier said then done my friend. Ir armour makes a lot more sense.
I’ve done kotegeshi on blue, purple, and brown belts before. It’s not a super high percentage technique but it does work
@@genezysgoncalves5937 Yep, I think a lot of the techniques were meant to be used against weapons WHILE ALSO fighting in Armour.
I'll be honest. I'm just assuming that Aikido is using techniques that would work on people that don't have any insight about fighting/grappling, which would have been the average thug approaching Ueshiba at the time of him developing it (let's say 1930-1950?). People have this misconception that EVERYONE in Japan/Asia pursued martial arts, when in reality only a small percentage of people did. Yes, they were taught in University in Japan, but many people either forgot, or stopped practicing after their time in military or school. These techniques (some, at least) CAN work, that is why I was happy to see the BJJ instructor try them. This just proves that any martial art should evolve both mentally and physically. Good video as always
One.more thing here. I'm glad the instructor mentioned the Gi. I'm an old school BJJ guy that still understands the practicality of the gi. Gi and no GI are essential in terms of technical application of the art. You need both.
One of the most import principles of any martial art is that you can’t “try” to perform a technique. You use a technique appropriate for your position. Once you chose a technique and were trying for it, your instructor can counter because he knows what’s coming, AND doesn’t have to worry about any other techniques
A few comments: 1) The variation of kote-gaeshi that your coach showed you is the actual kote-gaeshi variant that is taught in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu - the wrist is kept clamped to your own chest to prevent the opponent from pulling free, 2) Why did you choose to test out techniques which target the wrist (a small, highly mobile target), instead of trying out techniques which target the spine/body (a large, not as mobile target) like irimi-nage, kokyu-ho, aiki-otoshi, etc.?
Still time for that 😁👍
As a former Aikido practitioner myself, it does feel nice seeing this video. Even though I train mostly judo and jiu-jitsu now, I sometimes do try to see what movements from Aikido may work
ruclips.net/video/wmYTFmV_IX8/видео.html
@@DonDon-ou7jt I may heard about this before. Unfortunately where I live, there is no one who practices this form of Aikido. Thanks for sharing
@@magicbori im a judo guy and i believe every martial arts can be applied, its just that some people stick by the book and doesent know how to apply what they learned in their martial arts. yes that form of aikido has sparring and its cool, you see aikido techniques works.
@@DonDon-ou7jt : I think that's why judo conquers all. In randori ( which was a great innovation by Jigoro Kano) , we respond to the opponent and even lead the opponent to the throw we want. Judo can be unpredictable Nd that's the secret of martial art success. Mushashi expounded this essence in his Book of 5 Rings. Too bad many martial artist is still clueless about this.
When I lived in Japan and got my judo black belt, the Aikido guys were practicing right next to us… it was very cult like and not very effective
I've been watching your videos for a good bit now, you're going in the right direction. Keep it up!! Wish I had the same mentality back then.
It’s interesting that the correction the bjj coach brought are exactly how I learnt these locks in jjj. It’s fascinating to me to see these technics in different martial arts, but at the end little important details and fight experience are what makes them work. Are you going to make a video trying akido throws? The set up may be easier than for wrist locks!
Well Aikido and BJJ originated from Japanese Jiujutsu so they are from the same root
I started martial arts studying wrist locks when I was 15 yo. The main thing to know is that when your opponent knows what you are trying to do then the locks are virtually useless. They really are a chancy thing and have to happen on the fly. If you try to "go" for the lock then it mostly will not happen. The next thing to know is that locks can easily be slipped if there is space to maneuver. Locks have to be quick to set up, take the advantage, and then on to the next move to finish. It is rare to hold a lock for too long if the opponent has space. The third idea is that even a wrist lock needs to focus on the shoulder as a lock is easily broken by bending or moving the elbow or shoulder. This last part is hard to explain in a written comment. Wrist locks focus on bending the wrist. They are easily broken by straightening the forearm and "unbending" the wrist. Again this has to be shown and is hard to explain in a written comment. I studied wrist and elbow locks for many years and developed an escape from an elbow "hammer" lock that I have not yet seen demonstrated by anyone else.
Nicely stated!
That is what I was expecting to see for couple years :)
I'm not defending Aikido here (I don't think it's generally effective) but this test is nonsense. No technique works if you obsess with it alone because the opponent can sense you're looking for something, let alone continuing with it after it's already failed and he knows exactly what you're attempting to do. Any move is best applied spontaneously, without thought, if and when the right moment occurs. This is absolutely true even with a jab or cross in kickboxing.
Trained with a BJJ Blue belt that ran an Aikido club he would always use a set up never just going for a technique. You try grabbing someone's wrist and cranking it on to even an untrained guy your pissing in the wind. It would be a like a BJJ guy trying to armbar you from standing without jumping in the air.
Exactly, that's why aikido isn't viable for actual combat (if i'm not mistaken, most of it's techniques are expecifically for an opponent that is straight up running at you without thinking or anything) but there are some techniques that do work everytime, mostly the ones that are used a lot in jujutsu and are also in aikido. For example: ipon seoi nage. I've seen akidokas doing this throw but in a way that your foe will just roll without harm, i guess that this is because aikido is made so none of the fighters get harmed.
@@jestfullgremblim8002 I hope that one day we can all see the value in each others practices and make martial arts a far less toxic community.
@@jestfullgremblim8002 Saying that Aikido relies on someone running at you isn't true, Aiki is a principle. You don't need Aikido to learn these but it's another method, martial arts is martial arts it's all the same in the way you move your body.
@@合氣道学生 The basic principles of Aikido, and jiu jitsu as well, is to funnel chaos into recognizable move from your opponent that you can then work with.
My take is that Aikido is basically a pared down set of judo techniques, so you have to try and “lead” uke into a using an attack you can manage, in a form where you can manage it. The limited move set is really its weakness... you are limited to VERY specific conditions where the techniques will “work”.
@@hokuspokusIiI I understand what you're saying. But say I'm going to right hook you in the head. You'd move out the way right? It'd be easy to avoid that.. Say I grabbed you and went to throw you over my hip in judo? You'd easily drop your weight right? Well if I tried to grab your wrist then you'd easily resist in a similar way you avoided all the other techniques and that's when it comes down to martial skill, adaptation and training methodology. Judoka often use a handful of techniques anyway, how many punches are in boxing?
Keeping the wrist attached to your chest is called "platforming" and it uses your whole body to do the technique.
Aikido techniques don’t happen when you want them to happen! When you train long enough, you apply one of those techniques when it presents itself naturally as opposed to trying to apply them when you desire! Aikido happens when the Uke is trying to recover their balance even for the slightest moment. 99% of the time you try to apply Nikyo for example, it will fail to anyone resisting or just pulling away. True Aikido is never about trying to apply it and contrary to belief, it’s not even about taking their balance; It’s about using the right technique at the right body alignment of both Uke and Nage while they are trying to regain their balance. This is nothing new in combat, Boxers have been using it for years with punches instead of restraints and throws!
A boxer doesn’t try to take down their opponent with a knockout punch while the other person is still strong and balanced, they do it when they are unbalanced and for a moment uncoordinated!
This is true. I hope you make it to the top so everyone gets to know the situation here.
yeah, i feel the whole point of aikido is a complementary art , still needs to be tested and improved tho
of all aikido defenders out here in youtube, you are the one who explain how aikido technics work clearly.
others would be like "TRUST ME AIKIDO WORKS BUT WE JUST TOO SUPERIOR TO USE IT AGAINST ANYONE!"
I was about to comment on this point when I saw you had already addressed it. This applies to all martial arts and sports in general. You need to react and adapt to what is happening in front of you. The goal is not to guide your opponent into position, so a specific technique can be applied. He should be trying to defend himself against the coach's random attacks within the Aikido framework. Not being able to adapt the techniques learned to any given attack is a failure in instruction and training not failure of Aikido or any other style. A good instructor should be able to teach their students how to close that gap and make an appropriate response. In the right hands with proper training these techniques can be very effective. It's never a question of, "Will Aikido work or not work?" The only question is "Have you trained properly in your chosen style to defend yourself?" If the answer is No. Get back in the gym and maybe find a better instructor. When you find yourself in your favorite stance, ready to engage, is not the moment to ask yourself "Am I prepared, do I actually know what I'm doing?" You may have allowed yourself to get into a situation where someone who does know what they're doing is about to make you look very foolish.
Man, i truly admire you. You're giving the world a true master class about open mindness, open heart, authenticity, honesty, humbleness, expansion, improvement! BIG CHEERS TO YOU . ACIU!!!!
This is probably one of the best video on this channel, giga informative :)
Nice Kradukman! Glad to hear it
This video is so inspiring. Thank you to show the way of learning and improve
Thank you
You’re welcome
More of this would be super cool
More will come!
>aikido: specializes in wrist locks.
>bjj: heres how wrists locks actually work.
>aikido "master" : OMG SO THATS A WRIST LOCK! i've never seen one in my entire life!
yeah.... i wish this was not a joke, but it is.. aikido that is.
Make this à series this was really good. I do Japanese Jiujitsu which applies techniques in the way you were shown so nice to know we are on to something....
More videos will be on the way!
I practice Jjj and judo and yes it’s fascinating we are taught the corrected way. I’m wondering what happened to akido and jjj for the same technics to be used/taught differently?
@@lemadfab pressure testing and Aikido became a cult
Okey, this is actually an awesome video !
I would love to see more of those.
More are incoming!
@@MartialArtsJourney Nice !
I use sankyo all the time when escaping from seatbelt grips, either from the bottom of turtle or when my back has been taken. It's only a small modification to the standard 2-1 escape but I find it helps. And the Nikyo principle is great for popping sleeve grips.
I'd love to try that and I'm sure I will! Thanks Sean
This demonstrated beautifully the difference between knowledge given vs knowledge discovered. We can be given the correct knowledge but we can also be given incorrect information and being ignorant, we struggle to discern the difference. What I love about BJJ is we are given knowledge but have to discover how to use it for ourselves, through live rolling.
Nice
Most of Japanese arts who came to the west. When it came they heavely focused on Kata, but not on the application.
that close to the body version of the wrist turn is how we train it in my karate dojo. one of my fellow students who's a cop has used it several times to get non-compliant people to the ground.
This is so interesting. I come from Tai Chi an am training in BJJ now too. I habe the same doubts as you had on Aikido. I want to develope a "functional Tai Chi". Besides training BJJ, do you have any advise, what i could do to make my journey more efficient?
Thanks for sharing your journey with us!
Hi Das Pepe! Making your martial art functional is a really tough thing. I would personally advise going on a similar route like myself - put Tai Chi on hold. Devote yourself to a combat sport (BJJ, Muay Thai, MMA, etc.) and then after at least a good year's practice see if someone comes out or not
Muay Thai is always a great place to start.
@@MartialArtsJourney Hey Rokas, thanks for the quick reply.
I cant put Tai Chi on hold since im teachin it in a school and I really like it. But no worries I'm not teaching nonsense self defense. Most of my students come for the health benefit and meditation and I'm always telling them that they cannot defend themselfs with it, if they don't practise to do so.
Maybe I'm wrong but I think it could be easier to make Tai Chi functional, since it was developed as a self defense system and not a "kind of martial" practice, like Aikido.
But maybe im just a great fool by thinking that since the martial aspect of Tai Chi ist mostly lost since the cultural revolution in China, like 50 years ago.
I hope I can keep an open mind on my journey.
I will follow your instruction and first get the basics without trying to force in my Tai Chi, even though I already dicoverd some principals and techniques that are kind of alike.
Thanks for sharing your journey.
You´re a great inspiration
Its easier to develop a functional tai chi with striking than grappling. Or with sanda or sambo or even mma.
Pure grappling wont be able to pressure test tai chi.
@@genezysgoncalves5937 Tai Chi has rarely any strikes or kicks in it. Most techniques are stand up grappling techniques. But I guess Muay thai could be a great Striking art to lear for it, since it fokuses more on the clinch than e. g. Boxing
Rokas. Have you considered taking combat wrestling classes lately? With their vastly superior takedowns, positioning and pure tough mentality a wrestler with some bjj experience can give hell to most BJJ black belts.
I'd love to! Hopefully I'll have a chance one day
This was a really good video, I'd love to see more standing locks videos :-)
Thanks Midgaards! I'd love to learn some more standings locks too. Will look into it.
@@MartialArtsJourney waki gatami can work when they grab your lapel or throat
Rokas, I like your honesty and your search for the truth. I definitely like to see a second part and I also think Aikido is still viable.
Do you know Leo Tamaki? He said something interesting in a (sadly, french only) interview on a channel called Karate Bushido, and it was that, among others, the end goal of aikido techniques isn't necessarily to throw the opponent on the ground, but to open them up, because those techniques were mostly used by samurai.
To take the example of Kote Gaeshi, as he puts it, "if I can crank your right wrist just enough that it opens your left side, I can then use my tanto to carve you like a trout".
Not only that, but given that your BJJ coach could find, as you put it, ways to make Aikido techniques actually effective tends to make me think that Jujitsu (brazilian or not) and aikido not only share the same background, but are two faces of the same coin. By that, I mean that the modern aikido we see today is too far removed from its origins, and that it is much closer to jujitsu than we think. What do you think?
Aikido is watered down Daito Ryu Aiki-jujutsu. Do some research. It was never meant to be a stand alone martial art. It was developed to provide defense for when you are armed and someone or a group of people are trying to take your weapon away and also for unarmed defense against a weapon developed by samurai security guards in castles where it was illegal to take weapons inside. All of Ueshiba's first students were already black belts in Judo and/or Karate.
@@Westwood1816 That's... basically what I'm saying ;).
@@Artahe right, its late. need to go to bed.
@@Westwood1816 :) no worries friend :)
I think the cool thing is that you did make some of these functional which shows these things worked at some point in history
You should look up Dan the Wolfgang, he tries to apply akido systema and wing chun techniques to his MMA game.
Paul Sharp of SBG also did some wrist locks as well
Dan is a bully, a big strong guy (90+ kg) doing techniques on weak 60kg Japanese.
@@paulrickett7564 He talks about size in his videos, and he does show clips of him against guys bigger or equal to his size!
You just washed my soul once again :) thanks and keep up with the great work!! Btw,I had already lots of experience agains resisiting opponents, since I am actually quite big and strong and my friends always doubted it worked.. so we made lots of contests with no punches or kicks, just submissions and takedowns,, and usually it would end up everyone agains me. GREAT tips.. but I must say, I had some AMAZING classes with Sensei ONO, in São Paulo, and he always said that, it (the locks and techniques)should be taken to your control, that's why posture is so important, you mut bew balanced and put the "target" under your control zone.. AMAZIN Experience. I am SO SO HAPPY that you are applying Aikido now :D Please keep up!!!
About the sankyo, i found out that you could reinforce it by try to do Shihonage first. Of course any decent fighter would notice it and resist, you could follow their resistance and twist back into Sankyo. I managed to do this like 2 times in MMA sparring but it's still a very hard stunt to pull off since you have to set up alot before executing the technique
That sounds interesting. I'd love to see it on video
I've managed to snag sankyo while on the ground, in an inferior, turtle (sort of) position (with opponent back-mount) when my opponent went to steady himself. Not the position you want to be in, in the first place, but it can be one way to get out of the situation.
That is a good coach!
Nice work man!
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All martial arts are effective the problem is most don’t spar in practice. The most effective ones are the ones that spar
Great vídeo as usual!
Oh niiice! You were able to pull off the special emoji! 😁😊 So cool.
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed the video.
@@MartialArtsJourney The emoji is so cool! Your dog is beautiful by the way! Thanks, Rokas!
Love the channel and Great video, it's really great to see you using/functionalizing your old Akido. The funny thing is, the only way aikido actually works is if you use force, timing and leverage to apply the techniques lol. Which seems opposed to the Aikido philosophy.
I imagine that's how the samurai's fought - force/leverage applied to Aikido techniques, the throws of Judo and the ground fighting of BJJ. Once you learn some Judo, you'll be a modern day samurai!!!
That's a good point. The "redirect your opponents energy" is not much around here :/ Would be interesting to see how redirecting and blending would look like made functional
Wow, this is a good insight. Just it puzzles me because the way we practiced aikido was exactly like this (force, timing and leverage). You had to make the techniques work against bigger/stronger guys who grabbed with full power (and were mostly blue collar workers, so they HAD a grip). Only when the trainee had the ability to use his body (means good structure, force, leverage, pain tolerance) was the training done in motion in order to develop tempo.
You know I remember doing the last one in my BJJ class the guy teaching it was much like you where he did aikido for some time but crossed over to BJJ.
Love seeing someone figuring out a way to make traditional martial arts work, rather than just dismiss it as useless
Three observations:
1) didn't you do any after-class training? What we're seeing here is like the stuff beginners figure out when they play around with the techniques. Of course your BJJ coach is faster at getting it than your average beginner. Once one figures those bits out, most people realize that there is actually more depth to aikido than just cranking wrists -- that's the part where a good coach comes in
2) your view of techniques appears to be really limited: kote gaeshi is turning around the wrist (no thought is given to opposing motion, say), you're not aware of the nikyo variation that is approriate to the kind of grabs you're getting (basically, you're inside the grip and your elbow is close to the partner's elbow), your view of nikyo appears to be completely encapsulated in "turn around the wrist", the sankyo you show in the old aikido video is all about pain, again your understanding of what makes the technique seems to entirely miss the balance and dynamics parts
3) from what I've seen at your school's youtube, your aikido training seems to have focused on distances larger than grappling distance, but you never actually try to create distance. Yet the training there also seems to have focussed on the dynamic part a lot, and you show very little understanding of that.
I'm sorry you got so little out of 15 years of aikido practice. Seriously. I fail to see anything "aikido" in this grappling session, unless you believe that turning the wrist this way or that way makes something aikido
I'm a BJJ guy myself. I've only really ever managed wrist locks against people where I have their arm isolated and pretty controlled already (i.e. working a straight arm lock, in a triangle etc... My limited understanding of Aikido, it seems that the way those techniques were originally envisioned was against armed opponents who are mentally focused on their weapon and holding on to it?
If I'm grappling and you try and grab my wrist on a two on one out in the open, I'm just going to disengage the position way before you can actually do anything with it because I don't need to hold on to something. If I have a knife in my hand I'm probably not going to just let my hand go floppy and pull it out of your grip.
Having said that I'm not sure I'd put a wrist lock high up in my self defence techniques vs someone with a knife or gun!
I give this guy all the credit in the world for being honest to himself and admitting he practically wasted 15 years on a useless martial art. I hope he does succeed in finding something useful In akido.
So would you say the same about someone who studied BJJ for 15 years and then gets shot or dies in a car accident? I heard on the news some years back of a decorated Navy Seal who came back to the states and was killed by a drunk driver! The point is if you haven’t done it, you have no credibility on the subject and your view of the world is very limited in critical thinking!
What hell!?! Your statement is a bit of an overreaction. I have real world experience and let me explain. 25 years ago they taught us defensive tactics at the Police Academy with a huge emphasis on Akido. Later in life I got involved in BJJ, MMA and wrestling. Do you know what happen to work for me in real world situations? It wasn't Akido! I found that if the situation wasn't perfect Akido just didn't cut it, period. Now, in Police Academys , atleast where I am, there is a strong focus on BJJ and MMA, BECAUSE THEY WORK. That's my experience, please explain what your is, I am dying to know.
Put apart the efficiency of the techniques, the major problem in this kind of experience is that you're entirely focused on "placing a sankyo", "grabbing his wrist to do a kote gaeshi" (leading you to pull his wrist, he does the same, there's no kote gaeshi situation at all), etc. Such techniques must be triggered by the opponent (very unlikely in a ring, where judo/jujitsu techniques are more suitable ; more likely in crowds for example).
And in more "realistic" situations (I saw policemen or bouncers using very well these kind of things), what happens is that the fingers are grabbed more frequently than the wrists. 2 or 3 fingers. Like a sankyo, rapidly directed downwards. Painful and quite dissuasive. That may not be the case on a ring though, between the rules (which is OK, you easily break fingers like that), the gloves, and the situation...
In fact, I think it's very unlikey to see an aikido technique applied "by the book" in any realistic situation. What may happen is more a general behaviour that triggers finger grabbing, headbutts, etc. BTW I might be wrong, but you learned a very fluid, smooth (and very commonly seen) aikido style. I learned that too, but my last teacher has quite a different style, much more dynamic, "compact", with a lot (a lot!) of atemis, finger/leg/arm/head locks, headbutts, etc. The students usually practice other techniques (kick boxing, karate, jujitsu, ...), and we use that to stress test the technique (we practice a lot against jabs for example, that is quite uncommon and disturbing in aikido). That's not magic, but that is far more interesting than repeating cryptic aikido moves, which roots are so far from our understanding.
Nevertheless, good job, confronting the technique is the best way to learn something!
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I have use it in BJJ, even in MMA with gloves sparring effectively, as set up even as takedown or a submission. It came from the years I was studying jujutsu in japan. If you believe in the technique, learn the mechanics of it, practice in every situation, do it live, in rolling, sparring eventually will work. Attacking small joints with body momentum against inertia can give some good results, its simple physics.
Good video as always!
Very awesome!!! I love that you are showing us how you can have from what you learned in the past and try to adapt it to BJJ and your training. However Rokas if you do have the time to respond to this request I would like you to do a commentary on Wing Tsun "Anti Grappling" and hear your thoughts and comments on this subject.
The Individuals to check out are Victor Gutierrez and Emin Boztepe. They claim with their style of Wing Tsun (Aka Wing Chun) they can "Anti Grapple" and beat any grappler with pure Wing Tsun. Also a lot of their followers claim they have even beaten real grapplers with no footage. Both individuals have instructionals on youtube on how to beat grapplers or do a comparison of Wing Tsun vs Grappling Styles. However keep training and kicking ass Rokas!!!
Here is a Video Example from Victor Gutierrez on Wing Tsun Anti Grappling. ruclips.net/video/OBhkm9copcA/видео.html
Just to let you see if you have the time.
dude I love seeing you practice BJJ and also trying this stuff out, gimme more of thisss
Already on it :) Stay tuned
I had similar experience. I had 10+ years of aikido under Kitaura Shihan lineage. I then went to earn a black belt in Kyokushin and then switched to KB and BJJ.
First, Aikido in striking has been 99.999% useless. Judo is useful, BJJ is useful, Aikido requires inhuman reactions or jedi ability to see the future. Slipping punches is hard, reliably moving your whole body to an exact required angle for every punch is impossible.
And second, some Aikido locks work in BJJ, but the amount of resistance BJJ people put up, the number of clever escapes, and as result the failure rate, is something that would amaze any pure Aikido practitioner. Unsurprisingly, I found that locks worked best when the opponent was controlled. I can wrist lock somebody who is in my guard, or under side control. Freestanding - extremely hard, and usually doesn't work on higher belts.
Even when Aikido techniques worked, Aikido principles did not. You don't get to merge in with the movement of your opponent, if your opponent is grappling with you. Not to any greater extend than BJJ, Wrestling, and Judo people already do without much fanfare.
Your kote gaishi didn't work because it's amateur quality... we would consider it yellow belt level in our school. Sero palm contact, no elbow to hip, and your pulling instead of pushing... Doubt you'll read this. Thanks for attending my ted talk.
Completely off topic but you're looking pretty ripped these days Rokas 💪🏻💪🏻 keep up the great work bro 👍🏻
Thanks! 😁
Where at in LT is your gym!? I spent about two months in Marijampole with the US Army. I really enjoyed my time in your country!!
Awesome! This is in Vilnius
@@MartialArtsJourney Oh cool! I visited Vilnius around Christmas time 2017! My friends sister lives there! Love your videos btw!
I really love your honesty! 💯❤️
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I dig how you go in with no ego. True martial artist mindset. Cheers mate
Great job Roka
I became a Probation Officer in California in the late ‘70s. I already had years of Karate experience and a little Aikido experience (which I loved). I got to take the Probation Dept’s self defense classes 2 or 3 times. Since they don’t want staff punching probationers, they emphasize wrist locks. I tried to explain to the staff and the instructor that wrist locks take a LOT of training and continued practice to make them work. At the start of the last set of classes, the instructor had evidently heard that I had a Martial Arts background so he asked me to be his Uke. I told him that I had a little premature arthritis in my wrists and asked that he NOT crank my wrists hard at the end of the techniques (as Aikido practitioners tend to do). And I told him that I wouldn’t resist and would do whatever he wanted. At each class he cranked my wrists so that by the last class my wrists were in constant pain. At the last class, a staff member asked him what to do against a boxer. He had some questionable technique that he demo’d. I told them, “No!”, and asked him to act like a boxer for me. When he did, I foot swept him and laid him out in midair. LOL
Great stuff. I wonder if any of these modified Aikido techniques will ever be widely used in no gi bjj? There's a strong possibility they might given that some of the world's top coaches and competitors seem to be developing the stand up/ takedown game at present.
very interesting stuff, well done Rokas!
Thanks Celestial Ode!
We have Kote Gaeshi in BJJ, it's called "Mão de Vaca" (Cow's hand). It is usually applied when the oponent is trying to hold you (normally the lapel) and you use your (or the oponent's) weight to brake their wrist. It's very effective against whitebelts (me included), but once you feel it you hardly let it happen again hahaha
About Sankyo, honestly, it seems like every time you could apply it you could also apply a Kimura. In this case, it might be a good way to make the kimura nastier, but only this
Excelente video, as always! Regards from Brasil!
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I just thought of an interesting guest for you Dr Mark Phillips of the fight science channel. He comes from a wing chun background his academy still teaches wing chun but he's also a practices BJJ(Black belt), Judo (Brown Belt) and Sanda. But what makes him interesting is that he's a PHD in Criminal psychology so he understands violence and management of conflict. Just you both come from TMA's so I figured it would be an interesting discussion.
Most of the soft arts depends on attacks. If you are going into an attack to do those moves , it will be difficult because it is from offence and so you generate energy used against you.
Cool video Rokas, I've noticing all the new editing, keep on with the journey.
Thanks! Glad to hear the editing effort is visible 😊
The way the BJJ guy demonstrated his interpretation of those Aikido techniques reminds me of the exact way I was shown how to apply them when I did Defendo and old-school jujutsu way back when. This reaffirms what I have come to believe from both your conversation with Chris, and your video on Ueshiba:
Aikido was designed to be a way to show people who were already skilled at violence a way to use their abilities beneficially, in a time and context where the narrative was a total rejection of war and combat.
Chris mentioned that the techniques related to hands-on combat were taught last, yet those ones shown were likely fundamental locks in old-school jujutsu and judo, and in application probably looked exactly like what the BJJ coach showed. Ueshiba was a man traumatized by war and near-death experience. When the war ended he set about trying to promote a peaceful way of life to people who had, for a long time, only knew how to be good at violence. And he did it by modifying a common language they all spoke, through their martial arts. It was never meant to be martial art. If anything, it was a primitive pioneer of things like the MANDT conflict-intervention system we have today.
Assuming Koto Gaeshi is the same technique I think it is, try using it from closed guard. I've used it this way for some time as a quick surprise or to break grips. The opponent isn't usually expecting it and will usually give up a sweep if you get them quickly enough.
this is a really cool experiment!
🙏👊 Thanks Max
I am a BJJ Black Belt (under Roy Dean) who started as a Aikidoka back in the 90s (under Chiba Sensei). I will say that once I got to purple belt in BJJ I started to be able to catch Aikido wrist locks fairly routinely...but it took me getting decent at establishing position and dialing in various details on back-stopping and control before that happened.
In addition to they typical goose-neck type wrist locks a lot of people are familiar with, I regularly use the following:
1) Sankyo from someone on my back. It is a fantastic defensive grip. This one is fun because I typically get the grip and open up an avenue to mount me...and get a submission from there. Note that you are exposed to an armlock if someone is hip to what is going on. After black belt, I started also being able to get Sanko from being in someones guard, including a very good brown belt. This one is definitely not as consistent and much more dangerous for me.
2) Nikyo to break collar grips when I am in someones guard. I don't think I've ever submitted anyone with this.
3) Kote Gaeshi. I have submitted people with this, but most commonly I use it in combination with a scissor sweep. From guard, I can use it to get someone leaning over to release pressure which very nicely sets up the scissor sweep.
Thank you for Your response and for sharing your journey
I love your honesty and humility. I practiced aikido for close to twenty years, even spending time in Japan, and I left it because of the, frankly, cult-like bullshido thinking it engenders in too many people.
Another food for thought is if you would've trained aikido with pressure testing for 15 years. And another food for thought is that instead of trying test 1 technique, when you wrestle/sparr and you try to use aikido based on technique that presents itself rather than try to enforce one, one aiki-principle is that when opponent resist from one direction you try to use that to his disadvantage, so then maybe you switch technique into throw, allways try to manipulate the kuzushi and work more on irmi and distancing and aikido tai sabaki footwork. And have gi when you sparr/wrestle and work more on the grip fighting. Awesome video Rokas, hope to see more videos like this.
Great example of documentation in a concise “vlog” style, especially for a focused technique test. My martial knowledge is limited but the approach to test, re-test, and reflect, sounds wise.
It seems like you forgot many techniques from Aikido. The BJJ instructor knew better how to set up the Nikkyo. It's basic what he is showing. Would advise to go back to the dojo!
Congrats on the blue belt brotha. 🤙🏾
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Blue belt expert 😂😂
I hope to see more vidoes like this thanks for sharing .
More will be coming!
Thanks. However I say again Aikido helped me out. Its helps me to deal with internal issues. I take MMA to deal with the external.
You should try to do a video with Rob Biernackie. He's good at breaking down BJJ concepts and he'll be a whizz at modifying Aikido techniques to make them functional.