6.4 HEMI Engine Failures Common Problems WATCH OUT.
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- Опубликовано: 20 янв 2021
- In this video I go to my buddies shop to look at some common problems he has been seeing on the new 6.4 hemi ram trucks like the 2500 and 3500. Its sad to say but looks like they have some problems just like there little brother 5.7. I also test out some new degreaser from super clean on some very dirty wheels and boy did it to a fantastic job.
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Not trying to scare anyone as you all know I love all the hemi engines. Just be aware of what could happen in the long run🙏☝️👍 if you live in GA and need help with this repair contact me on instagram@frostbite_ram or my Facebook @frostbite ram
Wot if'n I libes in VA?
Gm the same way they eat lifters too
@@hmb_jeff561 they sure do 👍
M 0 c
The new 6.4 hemis have problems too with the lifters…?
Just traded in my 2012 5.7 and she had 179,000 miles. Don't know if the 2012's even came with a check engine light as I never saw it once. No rust and ran good. Hated to let her go but needed a 2500 to haul my new camper. Awesome truck.
That's what happens when you don't use 0w40 and the trucks idle for more hours than they are putting miles on them
I work at dodge. The main reason this happens is lack of maintenance. If you’re not doing the oil change with the proper oil every 6k miles that’s on you
The change engine oil light comes on around 8000 miles. So actually you are wrong. If you don’t change your engine oil at 6000 miles, it’s not on you, it’s on Ram. This is a purposeful design flaw. These engines continently fail after the 100,000 mile warranty. Shame on Ram, shame on Hemi. Money rules them
@@Yahusha77 manufacturers recommendation, and the proper maintenance intervals are two different things. I don’t give a damn when the light comes on, it’s the customers responsibility to get it maintained properly. The machine is fallible and can clearly make mistakes. My Honda won’t turn on the oil light until 15k miles lmao. That doesn’t mean I’m gonna do the oil change every 15k miles. Your argument is baseless and dumb. Also I make sure to tell my customers every 6k miles to come in for an oil change on full synthetic vehicles or at least once every 6 months if they’re not driving it enough
Well if they can’t figure out when to turn a simple light on, then I doubt we can trust them to build a reliable engine. These vehicles are designed to drain the customer of every dollar than can get. And only 6000 miles for 0w 40 full synthetic. Come on man
I do oil changes every 3k miles on my SRT jeep 392 hemi. Lifter still failed at 53k miles, manufacturer warranty covered it so that was great. My opinion is that it comes from excessive idling, the lifters don’t get much lubrication with low oil flow under idle as opposed to rolling around 20mph or 2500rpm. The 6.4L has moved the camshaft up a few inches compared to the 6.1L. My second thought is that they are just primed to fail, no one with aftermarket lifters has this issue.
I change my oil at 3,000-3,500 max. My truck has 21,000 miles and is at dealership right now with oil consumption issues. Uses 4 quarts of oil between oil changes. My truck is my money maker and I maintain it more than recommended.
I just sold my 5.7 HEMI with 135,000 miles 8 years old. Pulled an 8000 pound trailer every spring/summer/fall. I had to replace the exhaust manifold on both sides. Other than that, zero issues. Used the recommended 89 octane fuel and synthetic 5w20 oil every 5000 miles. Recently bought a new 6.4 Hemi 2500. Again, I use the recommended 89 Octane fuel and synthetic oil every oil change. I don't know if a lot of guys do that, but I believe it makes a difference.
My brother in law sold my brother his charger with a hemi. He said it never ran right and had an engine tap. My brother put 89 fuel in it like it was supposed to and it solved the problem. Brother in law was pissed. Lol.
@@eric44707 The 6.4 Hemi is tuned to be able to use 89 octane from the factory, FCA and the manual recommends running 93 octane in the 6.4 engine.
Use the proper oil..it makes a difference.
I always run 93
We eliminated our cam & lifter issues when we switched to Schaeffer 0W40. Chrysler approved. Zinc & Moly both control the wear. No disappointments. If I told you the drain intervals we are running no one would believe me. We sample every oil change. Hard to find but nothing better.
I run Schaeffers in my Power Wagon and my Hellcat and have had great luck with that oil.
What's your opinion on Amsoil?
Thicker oil wont fix a mechanical issues sooner or later it will cost you in the end .
@@fordmech7913 It will when the issue is lubrication. And the hemi failure is definitely due to lubrication.
Seen a dozen trucks eat cams running that exact oil with 3,000 mile intervals. Was a Schaeffer oil sales man team
I recently repaired this problem on a 5.7 Durango with 90,000 miles. Although the miles were a bit low, this engine had over 5000 hours on it due to extended periods of sitting at idle. Not all that bad really, if you consider a hypothetical average speed of 30MPH, that comes out to 150,000 miles. I did the work myself at a cost of around $1,200. I ordered a stock cam from Dodge, didn't pay any attention to the cam specs, and inadvertently ended up with a higher performance grind than original equipment. It really woke the engine up and was a bit of a shock when I first drove it. Other than the cam/lifter issue, I've never had any other problems with this engine. It doesn't burn oil or overheat, has lots of power and get respectable MPG for what it is. With the time on this engine and being used to engines from the 60's and 70's I can't complain.
Idleing does not hurt engines. Keeps the oil at temp keeping all water vapor at bay.
I think even if you maintain them it can still happen
My job does the maintenance every 4-5k miles regardless of oil life left. Regardless of manufacturer GMC, Ford, Ram we've never opened an engine. All have gone to 300k miles+ before California has us replace them for newer emissions.
I find it hard to believe that your buddy with a podunk shop is getting 6.4 Hemi Rams with failed cams when the 6.4 Hemi is not that popular of an option for the 2500 and 3500 trucks that are normally sold with 6.7 Cummins diesels. Further I owned a 2016 Ram 2500 with the 6.4 Hemi and ran quality Redline 0w-40 Group V Ester Synthetic oil in it and did not have any issues. If 6.4 Hemi Truck engines were having major issues with Cam failures it would be all over the forums yet the forums are quiet.
From what I see the Truck at the start of this video looks to be a tradesman work truck and the maintenance was likely lacking, used the cheapest oil they could find and did not change the oil and filters in a timely manner. To many companies think they are saving money by using cheap oil and filters while they dog the truck, this one had a failure at 130,000 miles and from seeing the mirror in the up tow position you can bet your rear end this truck is used hard towing heavy loads.
You say this guy has had five or six 6.4 Hemi Rams come in to his shop in the last two months for cam failures is just not believable. If these 6.4 Hemi Truck engines were failing at that high of a rate it would have been discovered long before the past couple of months and the Ram forums would all be on fire about it.
The 6.4 Hemi Truck engine has been out since 2014 so they are hardly new on the market in fact they are now into their seventh year on the market. Landscape companies are well known for not taking good care of their trucks when it comes to proper maintenance.
🤣🤣I will ship you all the camshafts if you pay the shipping that way you can evaluate them with your NOT podunk shop experience 😉 🤷♂️👍
@@FrostbiteRam some people just hate to admit there's a design problem, however as a mechanic I would agree some people cheap out on the maintenance then blame the manufacture, DO PROPER MAINTENANCE FOLKS
I work a company that bought several Dodge Ram trucks in 2015 with the 6.4 L engines and the trucks get regular oil and filter changes. Every one without exception had to have the cam and lifters replaced starting at about 30,000 miles. Now interestingly enough anyone that has been through this also knows there is a 3 month back order on parts. I guess there is not a widespread problem though they can’t even keep up with demand for the parts. Can any of you defenders of Dodge explain this. LOL good luck, I await your replies.
@@josephsylvester1 i would like to know when the oil was actually changed in the 30k mile trucks that are 6 years old now? What mileage is on those trucks no? I would think they should be on there 5th or 6th lifter and cam swap? Each truck!!! Oh and what are thr hours on those trucks so we can see the duty cycle of each and Mke a comparison with our own trucks?
It is all over the forums and GM has the same problems because of the MDS systems basically
Thanks for the time making this vid. I’m considering a new 2500 this year!
No problem man a 6.4 would be sweet.
@@FrostbiteRam wish ram would throw the 6.4 in the 1500. The Jeep Wrangler will have it this year. God i love hemi!
@@doc4555 that would be awesome
@@FrostbiteRam Hellcat, even better! I hear it's coming.
I have a 2014 ram 2500 with the 6.4 hemi mds. I bought it in 2015 with 12,500 miles. I now have 210,000 on the truck have had no issues accept for just recently replacing broken exhaust manifold bolts. routinely maintenanced change the oil at 3000 miles wheather it needs it or not tire rotation alignment and balance with every oil change. Best running truck I've owned 👌
Thats awesome some good mileage to👍
I'd suspect that the root of the problem is caused by DIRTY OIL. Running it more than 5K miles between oil changes.
Nope. I know of trucks that ran full synthetic with 3,000 mile intervals that eat lifters.
They don't use specified oil, even certain synthetics don't meet requirements. Alot of people go conventional and the damage starts.
The hemi has a issue with oil starvation at idle so if you idle your truck a lot then it’s bound to munch a lifter.
The real problem is mds just like afm in GM it’s garbage
Part of the problem is that modern day motor oil has the Zinc levels significantly reduced in the oil formulation. Zinc (ZDDP) is used to lubricate ferrous metals under heavy pressure. Since EPA requires Catalytic Converter s to last longer, ZDDP has been reduced. High levels of ZDDP reduces Catalytic Converter life.
I have a 6.4L Hemi in my Challenger. I add six to seven ounces of Lucas ZDDP oil additive at every oil change interval. My lifter noise is gone and the engine seems much smoother. I also removed the MDS using a tuner device.
My honest opinion is that it is easier to deal with Cats that deteriorate over time than it is to replace engine components. Sorry Greta, but how dare you and your minions at the EPA lower my ZDDP levels and destroy my engine in the process.
I also saw an internal Chrysler service memo recommending SAE 5W40 synthetic to be used in lieu of other oil weights originally suggested. This memo applied to severe service use, such as police, taxi and towing. I use 5W40 synthetic as well. The 5W40 plays an important role in cooling and is believed to help reduce the dropped valve issue on the 5.7L Hemi.
SAE 5W20 was originally thought of as the best oil to circulate and that it is the best oil at start up. However, with reduced ZDDP levels combined with all the stresses and high operating temperatures that modern day engines are exposed to, metal sheer, scoring and thermal breakdown is showing that 5W20 is not a long term solution. Also, avoid using certain bright colored oil filters as they do not offer the protection a Mopar or top quality branded filter will offer you.
Plate [C]
DUDE. Look at Amsoil. It's got the zinc in all blends. My 1967 440,(actual 452, 40 thousands cut and Direct connection stage 4 heads, and more). My 5.7 in a 1500. Research it and use the proper one for your engine. No guessing, no overdoses, just clean oil. I do not sell the stuff or represent the company, just a gear head from the 70's. For the old iron there is a specific blend with the most zinc. I think it's called Rod X or something. Run one crankcase of that in your new 6.4 for 5K and then run the lighter blends.
This is very interesting. A newbie hemi 392 owner here and ive just ordered a product called Turbomaxx. They claim similar or better protection qualities as zddp but without the cats being harmed. Ill be putting 2oz into approximately 7 quarts. Im very keen to see how it performs (or not perform). Im running 0w-40 but there just might be something to that 5w-40 fca internal memo. Totally agree Mopar white SRT filter only, not the regular Mopar black filter.
What oil are you using ? I've thought about changing to redline Easter based 0w40 high zinc formula. It has 13 hundred ppm zddp.... Regarding the 0w40 vs 5w40, I'm told the 0w40 is better for lubrication when it's cold on the 6.4 Hemi... I've been using a friction modifier Archoil. I'm on 30k now still new, but I'm trying to do preventive maintance, any advice you can give me, I will appreciate it. I also never run the engine on auto mode. I always run on sport mode, so the mds doesn't turn on.
The only thing I would add is the 6.4 is not a new engine, it has been around for 7 years and the problem has not been very widespread at all. If the same owner has had multiple trucks with failures it makes me wonder what kind of maintenance he does.
There are unlimited videos of these hemis ticking and camshafts being destroyed.
Or how they're being used
This is a widespread issue Jeepsrt8, and a bunch of 392's are having this issue
Concerns me
@@chavyflos6311 not 6.4!
I bought a 2014 2500 with the 6.4... as soon as I had it a day, same problem. And it sat at the shop for 3 weeks. I got it back for 3 days and had to put a transmission in it. I love the truck I have it still and no issues now 🤞 besides the gas cap curse.
What is the gas cap curse?
I am running a 15 ram 3500 6.4. Bought it with 69k i now have 137k. 40k of the miles i put on are towing my toyhauler camper loaded at 13,500 lbs. I have change my oil at 5k every time myself. Pennzoil 0w40. It has ticked since the day I got it and still ticks the exact same way. I run nothing less then 89 octane. I know for certain that running 91 will maintain my speed better towing my rig at 55-60mph. My truck hates that speed with the camper in tow. She is very happy running 65-70mph. I will note that my oil seems to be a bit darker at oil changes now then when i first got it, but it is not jet black.
Cam looks like it's been overdue with the oilchanges or cheap oil/overheated maybe?
Pulled the cam out of mine and it looks brand-new, just like the crank. Oil changed every 4000 miles. Engine has almost 180000 miles on it.
Why did you pull the cam?
I find it odd that you took the time out of your day too pull the cam out of your engine? If there was no problems to begin with.
If your engine drops a valveseat your bound to do a rebuild. At least if you want to do it the right way. Thats why I pulled the cam. I'm not pulling a cam out of a perfectly running engine.
@@alexh201174 oh ok, I was wondering if there was another reason that you pull the cam out.
@@alexh201174 Makes sense to me, thanks.
My 2016 Ram 6.4 had the #5 lifter seize at 150k. All new lifters, cam, spark plugs, original parts and labor at the dealership, just under $5k. Oil changed every 5k miles. It just happens once in a while. With a couple hundred thousand lifters manufactured, a small percentage of them have failed. But even if 1% of all lifters manufactured fail that could equate to 10% of the motors being damaged. We can't blame the motor, but unfortunately it just happens.
Ron, I wish all people had your mentality.. your comment is very correct, horrible for this to happen but it is only 1%.
150k miles and only a single major fix of >$5k? Not that bad of a risk. Hemi's idling for extended periods of time in Landscaping trucks is probably a strong negative factor
Six trucks owned by the same person Idk how you can justify it being just a few machine parts out of hundreds of thousands. I guess that's your idea of reliability that to each their own. My idea of liabilities 230,000 300000 mi no problem.
my 5.7 is on 305 000km and never had an issue, I've always put some anti friction (for diesel engines) mixed with the oil since I got it at 200 000km and it's been great
Km lol
GM and Ram have been all plagued by this problem because of MDS…well documented and not a surprise at this point…eliminate it or get another truck every 100,000 miles, which is why they continue to use these systems, most people don’t keep the truck that long so they don’t care, especially after warranty period
Thanks for the update. I was looking to purchase a ram used in the near future.
Thanks for stopping by hope I didn't scare you lol
You mention milage in the videos as a rough estimate, but more importantly, what are the idle hours on these engines?
That makes a big difference, I worked for for the motorcycle training program in my state and when we sent bikes to auction they had low miles 2-4K, but all the hours they sat and idled is still run time. So basically double the mileage and that’s a lot on a small bike before overhauls
This is what I'd really like to know too. I suspect this is a bigger problem in the south where people idle vehicles to run the air conditioning.
@@wirebrush 100%
@@wirebrush or the north to run heater. no difference.
JUST THINK ABOUT THE POLICE CARS? THEY IDLE THOSE CARS ALL THE TIME, RUN THE AIR CONDITIONERS. THEY WOULD KNOW THE WEAKENESSES OF THESE ENGINES AND FACTS ON LIFTER FAILURES ETC. IT BE INTERESTING TO GET A REPORT ON THEIR RECORDS/MAINTENANCE RECORDS.
You guys need to start using Amsoil. Why not get the best for the best. You won’t be disappointed. I started using Amsoil in my air cooled Harley’s back in 09, Amsoil far exceeds everybody else’s oil. I have used it in all my vehicles too, it’s life and longevity to your engine. Fully synthetic, runs cooler, lubricates better, last longer. My Hemi 5.7 has 190,000 miles on it, using all Amsoil in it, runs like a new one.
I use Castrol gtx and mine has 190,000 on it too lol
@@brokenarrow6491 However, his may run far longer than yours. LOL
We just put a Jasper remanded in a 15 ram rebel. 80ishk. Cam was junk and DOD solenoid screens all full of metal. Customer opted for a remanded engine with a warranty. I think it was a good decision. I’ve heard horror stories about repeat failures after a repair like this due to contamination.. I could be wrong though, I don’t have a lot of personal experience with the hemi’s.
All commercial vehicles should have hour meters and have there service intervals set by hour not miles
That could definitely help possibly
Yes that’s why Chrysler changed it to hours not kilometres And miles. The oil temp runs really really hot in hemi’s and breaks down quicker than normal oil change intervals. So by the time you go to get a oil change the oils cooked The detergents and the viscosity of the oil too.
Also sitting at idle a lot starves the top end as these engines have weak oil pressure at idle for the size of the hemi.
My truck has an hours run and an hours idle. The recommendation is don’t idle. You need to get the RPMs up above 3k frequently to get oil on the lifters. I make it a point to get my Hemi well above 4K frequently. Mainly because it sounds so damn good.
Ram suggest 350 idle hours as a service interval over an odometer reading
From what I understand, it’s caused by the low tolerance within the engine cutting oil supply to the lifters. Not exactly how true this is though. I was told that there’s a plug to check for metal shavings somewhere in the engine (can’t remember where). If you check it, and there are shavings in the screen, the engine is done.
You are absolutely right. My 6.4 is on it second lifter and cam replacement.
@@cwbjr18 🤑😱🙀🙈
This exact issue just happened to my 2014 RAM 1500 with 5.7 HEMI. We were on a trip towing our 7,000 pound camper to Charleston, SC from middle TN. The tapping sound started while we were on our way down the interstate. I could hear it over the radio. I heard it all that week in varying degrees. Sometimes I could barely hear it. The engine light came on during the return trip so it went to the dealer. The issue was exactly the #5 lifter had locked and been chewing on the cam for some time. I was unaware until it was too late. I now have a 8 year old truck with a brand new dealer installed 5.7 HEMI engine to the tune of $13,000!!! It hurt BAD to do that, but did come with a 3 year/100,000 mile warranty. I had planned to trade the truck soon for possibly a 3/4 ton diesel. But with prices as crazy as they are now I'm thinking to drive this thing as long as I can then get something else. I will say I have lost my faith in the HEMI. It let me down in a big way at the very worst time. I would go to a 3/4 ton gas with 6.4 HEMI but I just don't have faith in the longevity of the engine. And the fuel price and maintenance of the diesel just about gives me a stomach ache. I'm not sure what to do other than maintain my truck very well and hope this new engine gives me 2 or 3 more years.
Use the right oil 0-5--20 wsyn !
5-7! 6l???
Thanks for making this video, good stuff, 👍keep making the videos!
Thanks for stopping by
A friction modifier / extreme pressure oil additive will help with this issue. Formula 3 by Lubrication Specialist in San Diego has it. $160 / gal.
Have to ask is there a fix for it yet move the line from the middle of the engine so it can oil up to cam and lifters and does the hellcat engines have the problem
Most people like myself has installed hellcat lifters and non mds camshafts seems to help or fix this.
Why would one want to go back factory/stock? So we can do it all again?
My question exactly. Isn’t there a better aftermarket replacement?
I would at least get the Hellcat Lifters.
My 3rd gen started making a little noise and then misfired. I have a code for co2 sensor come on and then go out after a few startups. It's in shop now w 199k miles
Not sure if anything is changed since the year of those motors. But I'm running a 2019 classic. 5.7. 304000 miles without an issue. Oil changes done every time the oil light comes on so and we're between 8 and 10000 miles and my truck regularly halls every day between 4 and 8000 pounds. The only thing i've had to replace is a battery. Original transmission original rear end original engine. Haven't cracked a boat on the motor yet.
Great video and appriciate the information. I just bought a new 2021 6.4 ram. Would you recommend the use of amsoil or other brand of oil...or additive to improve chances of this not happening?
Just use a good oil and change it regularly is really the most you can do.
get rid of that Truck.....buddy has 2020 cam issues already at 40k miles..... he wishes he had bought a Ford now hes screwed
Are there aftermarket alternatives to expensive factory parts and are they any better?
F it, I'm done with these engines. MY harmonic balancer just came apart at 66K and that's the last straw.
Da hell with it while it's open..and he's changing the springs!! Put a tx speed stage 1 base line tune let er eat!! 😅🏁
For real 👍
Can you ask what oil was used and how long are the oil change intervals.
I will check on that but I know the owner personally and he changes fluids regularly.
Its been said it comes back to oil changes, and most of these failures on are on long idle hours fleet vehicles, being changed at mileage instead of engine hours.
When mine in my power wagon goes, I'm doing MDS delete, and using the blanking plugs from the old 5.7 HDs.
Blanking plugs? What are those?
@@donellmuniz590 The older HD 5.7 hemis in the 2500, and 3500 were detuned and had MDS removed, though the cavities still exist for the solenoids, all Ram did was put caps on them, so the lifters were constantly bathed in oil, essentially eliminating this type of failure. The MDS solenoids basically controlled the oil gallery surrounding the lifters, if they never activate the lifter doesnt get much lube, but the caps have no provision to block the oil so they're always full.
My garage and a local Dodge dealership have found that there is a cronic problem of the casting sand not being totally cleaned off of the blocks when cast. This casting sand then acts as an abrasive and its clogging heaters and radiators as well. I suspect this could be compounding the problems shown here. Sounds like a recall is in order.
Makes me wonder if this is why my Ram has had a Chronic no heat issue almost every year since new🤔. Ive been through 2 radiators and 3 heater cores. I finally gave up and just dealt with being cold.
What were the oil change intervals on these vehicles?..Thanks
Although long idle doesn't help. Oil break down is probably a factor too! The one thing that stands out the most to me is MDS. It is my belief that the MDS affects oiling of the lifters and cam! Recomend MDS delete!
Oil breakdown has nothing to do with it. Y'all are not diagnosing the problem correctly. These lifters need Axle Oiling to better lubricate cam lobes and assist Spring Pressures available from Johnson Lifter AND the MDS Delete. The Crankshaft uses oil fling method of oiling the upper head and adding a direct line oil lube to both valve covers would do a better job ESPECIALLY at idle. What I cannot fathom is WHY would Dodge/Chrysler allow this to continue for so long without a design change OR a boosted oil pump at lower RPM to solve this issue. Even at 150 mph the oil pressure never goes above 56 psi. There must be some happy medium available or install direct head lubrication. If you own a 6.4 are you seriously concerned about fuel economy? (or even a 6.1 or 5.7 for that matter)
The MDS system utilize a small oiling port in the cam( or was it cam lifter) to allow the MDS to shut down certain cylinders while motor runs. If it gets clogged it causes a part to lock up and seize so even a MDS delete won't prevent this unless you replace the cam
@@diamondheat9 That would be the lifter my good man.
@@anonimous2451 ty
The reason why these fail is because they slack on oil changes. You gotta change the oil really early on these 5.7 and 6.4 HEMI'S.
How early? I've been doing a oil change 5k increments
It is actually the design of the engine, the cam is too high and the oil draining from the heads doesn't flow enough down to the cam. Idling is what kills these more than oil change interval. The cam gets starved at low rpm and once the damage starts it snowballs. These are good engines, but not if you are going to idle for 30 minutes at a time. If you are going to idle for more than 5 minutes just shut it off.
when he does the parts fix, is the issue of the lifters losing oiling being FIXED??
Nobody knows really this is the best option so far but Nobody has had complaints afterwards for the most part.
At 7: 30 you spray some super clean on a wheel and tire. DO you have to use the entire can to clean 4 tires? How much does that cost?
Thanks
1 can will last a few cleanings all the way around.
I'm looking at a 2018 with 150,000 MI thanks for your video is there any test I can do when buying the truck that you would recommend
We have a 2018 Challenger Scat Pack with the 6 4L. Zero problems so far at 25k miles anywhere on the car. I have two questions: 1. I noticed that the lifter that failed in this engine was one of the non-MDS, or solid, lifters. A lot of people claim the MDS system is to blame for these problems. Has this shop seen more MDS lifter failures or solid, or are they about even? And 2: If he has any experience with them, are the high performance 6.4L engines in the Challengers and Chargers more or less prone to these issues? We plan on keeping this car regardless and will stick a new engine in it eventually if we have to, we love it that much, but it's good to know what to expect down the road. Thanks in advance for any info!
Yes it seems lots of the lifters that fails is a mix of mds or non mds it really doesn't just point to one it seems. My 5.7 failure was a non mds lifter as well.
Yes the MDS contributes to early engine failure running on 4 cylinders. It be less money to drive with all 8 cylinders than get lifters replacement over and over especially if you use band aid factory parts only to end up with same problem again down the road.
@@microminiskirt
Probably no way to disable the MDS system?
@@jefferystensland1304 Buy the manual and pay the gas guzzler tax because if you are planning to keep Challenger for a long time that will pay off with one less major problem to go wrong.
It's two separate problems "HEMI TICK" as non MDS cars have had same issues with lifter valve failures. Must go by idle times and change oil and filter frequently-very high maintenance.
In today's competitive truck market there's no excuse for these types of issues in the hemi engines. I traded my 15 Ram bighorn 5.7 in for a 2020 SR5 Tundra. The exhaust manifold bolts were broke plus the lifter noise wearing out the cam. Both trucks sticker price were at 45,000 . That said I have faith that the Tundra will go 300 to 400 thousand miles with minimal repair. The Ram was nice towed my boat well.
Keep an eye on trans Temps in the Tundra. They stopped putting trans coolers on them and failures are occurring frequently.
@@bicyclecrashsurvivor8884 definitely a bad move on Toyota. Not currently towing anything but plan to add a cooler after warranty expires. If it goes b4 then it's on Toyota to replace
Tow a 14,000# fifth wheel. Unfortunately, a Tundra is not in the cards for me. My other car is a Rav 4.
Honestly I bet it's lack of oil changes or oil level to low or possibly cheap oil being used. My 5.7 has 119,000 with zero cam issues. But I do change it every 3,000 and only use amsoil signature series.
Amsoil is the best 💯
Well update to my ram hemi. Traded in the garbage truck after 6 months. 6 exhaust manifold bolts broke on me and several leaks. Never buy a ram again junk
Mobil one Synthetic oil, and mobil one synthetic oil filter.a large co. near me was using mobil one sythetic oil but cheaped out on the filter.when they went to the synthetic filters, no problems and these trucks had a lot of weight on them all the time something to try ?
SO after the lifter fails and grinds that cam down, where's all that metal go? I'm assuming it goes to the oil pan and gets picked up by the oil pump and goes through all the bearings. So I'm wondering about internal damage...Do you check the pump and bearings before assembly and how do they look?
If the cam bearings look good, then new cam,lifters, oil flush and send it. I have put over 20k on my motor on top of racing it weekly after a failed cam/lifters issue
@@FrostbiteRam I just had same problem on my 2014 challenger 392. 1200 miles after replacing lifters and cam, the oil pressure at idle is only 9psi. Pulled oil pump and looks to be scored fairly bad. Just wonder if I should pull bearings too?
@@street22style its possible it could be worse but thats kinda rare most people get away with new cam and lifters.
At least now everyone can have a "Hemi", running or not.
How are the 392 engines in the challenger?
I wonder if generic oil and cheap gas is the main culprit? I've noticed when heavy towing using standard mopar oil i would hit 280 °F after going with Mopar synthetic oil i rarely hit 260. Around town driving i use mid grade fuel and when planning a trip and during a trip when towing i use premium only.
I would try 0w40 oil castrol mobil penzoil doesn't meter better flow at any given temperature better lubrication when working hard and better additive package.
Don't belive dealerships.
@@MultiPartizan1 I send my oil to Blackstone Lab for a full Chemical analysis every other oil change. I trust my dealership as not only do I know the owners but also know most of the people there and have known them for almost 20 years. The MDS system gets angry when using different viscosity oils and might cause a CEL or MDS failure.
@@shockracer When towing Premium fuel only 93 octane we use 0W30 oil when towing oil temperature stays under 230f and same oil for all year around,
Same hemi 5.7l engine in australia recommended from mopar viscosity oil is 5w40 find CAFE agreement when you can,
No MDS issues in two hemi 5.7l engines K&N filters and Penzoil euro 0-30.
Dear hemi and Mopar people if you want to avoid your issues every 3,000 mi Castro synthetic blend with original filter trust me I had a 5.7 with 200,000 mi never had an issue
2007 chrysler 300c
What do you mean by "original filter"? Do you have 200k miles on the oil filter your car was made with 🤔😳? Lol.
Yup, Castrol or even Motul european formula synthetic....
well as a FCA vehicle owner the quality has continued to go down since 2015, when it should have been improving. now that Stella, aka PSA or the French Government owns what was FCA it's only going to get worse. after one 2016 Jeep SUV, a 2015 Ram truck and now a 2020 gladiator i will be switching brands. they just build poor quality
Yes please leave go buy a Ford I Chevy and everything will come in perspective quickly, Driven Chrysler Dodge for 52 years and driven a lot of other junk and there’s no equal to the quality not withstanding the few problems they have compared to say Ford which is the recall king
@@AmericanSurvival001 I agree and have had fords they are Generally much worse, but under Fiat the brands have suffered, fiat tends to ignore problems until they are forced to fix it. My 18 yr old grand Cherokee had less issues than my current gladiator. i am trying to not let the issues ruin the Jeep for me, (only at 10k miles) but it is honestly hard with so many. Best vehicle i ever owned was a toyota, zero issues to 100k miles before i traded it. tried to go American but with the French now owning the brands of former Chrysler co, they are not known for making good cars. I would love to be surprised if they can do better than FCA did as i am a die hard Jeeper.
@HalfShell Well JD powers is kind of a joke for reviews on any brand they are mostly paid for, CR is a good source but initial quality is no substitute for long term reliability. ATM both companies are having bad issues and cutting corners. Having owned both i had a LOT less problems with my chevys and none with my toyotas. Will be trying to keep it more American anyway, with ram being french owned now disappointedly. RIP real Chrysler, Not really a great time to be getting most car brands with the corner cutting.
Stellantis has been dumping money into quality control and improving their production facilities actually, and the most recent consumer reports are reflecting that.
How many miles do you have on your .5HLv2 now/total bottom end? Waiting for mine to seize up but they are still rolling at 110k.
149k on the motor and about 25k on the camshaft kit I believe.
Do a video about pros and cons when moding a CAM & Lifters VS just changing them when shtf
I will definitely work on something.
This is from running your motor with the MDS on. Guys, you have a V8 for a reason. Run all 8 or you gonna have problems. If your so worried about fuel mileage then go buy a 4 cylinder truck or car.
How do you turn off the MDS so you can run all 8 cylinders.
@@SIDVENOM after you put it in gear, just press the gear selector until you’ve reached the highest gear. So if you have a 8 speed trany, press the gear selector until it displays 8.
@@jasonneal ...
@@SIDVENOM this guys is trolling you, you'll have to open the motor up and replace the MDS lifters with NON-MDS lifters.
@@Prestiged_peck fuck you bro, I’m not trolling anyone. I have had 2 hemi motors, 5.7 and 6.4 and if you put it in select a gear the MDS won’t activate. But what ever
I've been lucky I guess,155,000 no problems. I will keep on using my 5w30 amsoil every 7000-10,000 miles
I change mine every 2500-3000 lol
You should be good you have custom cam and non mds lifters right.
@@FrostbiteRam no mine is still factory
@@Pickleram thats right just tuning my bad
Do you run 5W-30 in a 6.4 or 5.7?
Looking at a 6.4 2500 ram with 95k on the clock
They found this issue before I picked up the truck
Dealer will replace cams and lifters under warranty but do I pull the plug on this deal ?
We are talking other components wearing out and they call only the cams and lifters
What else went dry right ?
I dumped my 2019 Laramie long bed 6.4 for a 2020 Tradesmen 6.7 diesel. I got cold feet with all the problems with the 6.4 hemi. I also needed a diesel to pull my new 5th wheel and it holds it resale value way better.
Cant go wrong with the cummins only thing to prepare for is emissions components failure.
@@FrostbiteRam - and transmission failure unless Aisin
Normally company trucks will overdue the maintenance and abusive driving. That's the no 1 reason causing the powertrain to fail.
My truck 2015 is in the shop now for the same thing it just turned 105k all the maintenance has been done on time i landscape on the side but mainly cutting grass i have a full time job that limits me on how much i can take on. Luckily i have a drivetrain warranty through the dealership i bought it from for no extra cost only catch is my maintenance being on time and through the dealership which worked out for me i just got the transmission replaced last year at no charge
Agree, but would expect the rest of the vehicle to be a rattling POS by the time the engine issues cropped up.
So Change oil at 3k no matter what and change lifters at 100k if your keeping your truck ?
Yes, there are synthetic oils, and grades that are inferior. Yes, change the oil WELL before the factory rated intervals.
Is there a aftermarket repair for the cam problem , iam looking at putting one in my 2000 dodge durango
Yes non mds camshaft and lifters seem to be helping.
Where do all the shavings go from the old cam? I thought this failure requires a new engine. I’m doing some studying as I’m considering a Hemi Ram 2500.
Most the time they can be saved without motor replacement.
ruclips.net/video/JGC1D-vEdl0/видео.html
for 5.7 its mostly no need for new engine, for 6.4 most likely yes, you check on both this oil control valve which is under intake manifold, if there is debris on it...that means new engine. for 6.4 its more common to be so, because much tighter tolerances
@@Tamburahk thank you for the information.
I’ve seen this happen before and I advise my customers to replace the engine at that point because all of the metal that gets through the engine. I’ve seen them be replaced and two years later they start rod knocking. I don’t want to charge somebody you know $3500 to do the job and then have it come back two years later with the rods knocking.
The dreaded hemi tick with early valve lifter failures?
First thing I did to my truck with 200 miles was to cam it and change lifters. Added a lot of power and got rid of a known headache.
Awesome 👍
Would love to do this on my 6.4
What did you put in and do you still have low torque?
Thanks
@@breakeralex9211
J green cam/ jgreen tune/ ported heads/ported stock intake and throttle body/ long tube headers/ 2800 stall converter and few other odds and ends. The 6.4 hemi like this pulled awesome
@@breakeralex9211
Brother the truck really woke up. It had more torque and hp from idle to redline. Being a gas motor and non diesel the looser converter helped to.
@@sailingseahawk2012
Really glad to read this and thanks for the reply!
Same thing happened to my 2016 Dodge Ram 2500 with 6.4. Only 65,000 . Limp mode one day . Then misfire code. Had full engine replacement. Still under warranty. I won’t keep the truck over the 100,000 mile warranty
I wonder if these people changed the oil enough or used the correct oil. Roller bearings need nice clean oil especially with the location of that cam.
What’s the story on the GEN five‘s are they still bad? I have a 21 and concerned.
Not sure yet still to new time will tell.
Glad I purchased the lifetime powertrain warranty on my 2017. They no longer off the warranty though
It's already paid for itself.. I have 455,000 on the truck
@69Mach I CJ your right.. I'm an idiot
Owned my 09 1500 since new. I am a Tech (since 1982). Been on full synth' since 10,000km. 226,000km at 5,000 hours number 3 exhaust lifter & lobe. I had NO tick, just a misfire under heavy load that would remain for about 15 seconds. Found the siezed lifter would turn 90 degrees in the cassette then flip back giving me a smooth engine again.
I went with aftermarket parts because Canada OE prices are double ($2000 for just the lifters, plus head gaskets & seals etc)
Some of the new lifters are ticking, now running 5w30, still not happy with it, but going to run it as is while I decide to either redo it or swap in a new motor.
Will likely redo this one as I had the heads & exhaust manifolds machined (did valves & seals myself)
2017 and up needle bearing size was beafed up in the lifter rollers, anyone know if issue is less prevalent 17-23 ?
I had a lifter failure problem at 50k miles, replaced with hellcat and comp cam + mds delete, lifter failed again 30k miles later, rebuilt it again, 2k miles later lifter/cam failure again.
Perhaps I’m cursed but I wonder why it keeps happening.
Could it be the tune, wrong torque applied to the bolts, perhaps the heads weren’t cleaned right?
I’m torn and starting to hate this 392 motor.
Thats crazy may me work looking into the Johnson lifters.
My 2018 Ram 2500 6.4 Power Wagon only has 21k miles on it and already has this issue. It sucks. Dealer says it's normal. Mine sure isn't gonna make it no 100k miles, probably not even 40k.
Wow
How do you know it has this issue? Have you disassembled the engine to check? I slight ticking noise is not indicative of this problem. The 6.4 in HD trucks makes a ticking noise through the exhaust, they all do it, either through a bad exhaust design at the y-pipe, or thin walled pipe. My PW makes this tick also and it is most assuredly in the exhaust below the drivers seat and y-pipe area. There is zero ticking noise from the engine bay.
What I'd like to know is are they changing to a different type of oil other than what the manual calls for? Does the manual call strictly for Pennzoil.
I use 5w30 in my 5.7
Yeah I’d be curious also. My 2020 6.4 calls for penzoil ultra platinum 0w 40 that’s it. It’s $65 to do a oil change myself. I’m hoping that doing it every 5000 I’ll get plenty of life out of the truck. My first new truck. 🤞
@@FrostbiteRam both my trucks 05 and 2013 calls for 5w 20. both are 5.7 as per manual.
Just add zddp+ aditive every oil change,
Keep at between 1000-1400 ppm 1/4 of bottle depending where you get it personally i use redline brake in oil additive others are good too,
The main application of ZDDPs are as anti-wear additives in lubricants including greases, hydraulic oils, and motor oils. ZDDPs also act as corrosion inhibitors and antioxidants. They are almost ubiquitous in lubricants, and treatment rates are usually between 600 ppm for modern, energy-conserving low-viscosity oils to 2000 ppm of this additive in some racing oils,
Again keep it between 1000-1400ppm
Modern 600ppm may not cover it.
Do you think it's an oiling issue? Seeing others have the same lifter starving. BTW, the 6.4 is supposed to be lubed with Pennzoil Ultra 0-40W, I wonder if owners are deviating from the recommendation?
Most likely yes but the actual reason is not certain yet.
lol the excuses, its just a engineering failure been going on forever.
If they can’t take the time to perfect a lifter that’s pretty bad.
Hardly an engineering failure or even a problem when you consider how many 3rd gen hemis have been produced since 2003 a tiny fraction of them have had camshaft or lifter problems. Hardly worth re-engineering a design for a insignificant problem. Never heard of an engine that dosent suffer failures they dont exist. The vehicle owners have more to do with failures than the design ever will unless it is just a bad part they do exist and nobody knows its bad until it fails.
My 2012 Ram (5.7) had the same problem. Got a quote from dodge, they wanted to charge me 4,500 again 4,500$ lol. No joke. I just took it to a different machine, charge me 1500 also, but 2 months later, cold start my truck, the lift knock, then goes away, like 2m later (it’s not the manifold bolts) but I started blending my oil. I do factory oil then mix it with the Lucas stabilizer engine oil. Once I added that stuff, the knock was there but would go away like In 2-10seconds. It’s a really sucky situation, but if it happens again, I’ll probably just do it by my self.
Cheers from Texas, hope I made sense. Lol
By the way, I did see a RUclips video saying about how the cam was to far from the crank, and how the oil wouldn’t reach the lifts in time, something like that. I believe the person who explain it was “uncletonysgarage”
ruclips.net/video/iTL8QEU2NwE/видео.html
Yeah the dealer makes a killing on this.
I have a 2021 Ram 2500 6.4 as a loaner as my truck is in the shop (2018 F250 6.7 with the dreaded upper oil pan gakset leak). Even with just 7500 miles, i will say the engine is NOISY and can clearly hear the valves clanking away lol.
Could this be associated with the MDS system? I know it was a problem that Chevrolet was having with their system.
Lots of theories but no sure explanation yet. But deleting the mds does seem to help.
I had two lifters fail on mine and neither one was an MDS cyl.
Why would you go back stock won't that issue come back again seems like wasted money to go back stock and have another failure again.?
i live in ga i have a 2012 ram 1500 that needs a cam swap u didnt tell us who ur buddy was that does this work. could u let us know how to get a hold of him
706-612-6252 TJ
Hey that gas station is in Winder! I'm in winder too. Would really like to know what shop he owns to take our 6.4 to him.
My 2018 Ram 2500 6.4l has been pretty good so far. I am at 140k miles on it and it is hard miles with lots of idling. MDS has been off since purchase and everything is good so far. Mobil 1 0W-40W every 6-7k miles. At 68k the fuel pump came a part like it exploded. They had to tow me out of a job site drop the tank clean out the pieces and replace.Other than that all that has been done id Brakes about 3 weeks ago I got 140k out of it. Will it run into the lifter camshaft issues? Its possible, but I think the main cilprit has been the MDS. GM has had the exact issues and worse with their AFM feature. I will update here if it ever needs the dreaded lifter /cam job done. Also as of today the heater only gets luke warm. I am thinking Thermostat possibly, but its not over heating or creating any codes.
Yes sir update us
What’s this companies maintenance records with his trucks? I would love to know that. Tried and true engine and I’ve never heard of anyone I know with high mileage failures as you allude to. Please do a follow up once you have maintenance records, specifically oil changes
My question would be, is after market parts beet than OEM for the lifter and cam issue?
Most people use the hellcat mopar lifters not after market but its required to delete the mds if you do.
I've been told idle times are a killer on the hemi. I run Lucas oil stabilizer I'm now at 1030,00 and so far no problems
Chrysler has specialized in disposable vehicles since 1980.
Hmmm I never got that notice Forest Gump.... I guess I had better dispose of my '70 'cuda that I bought 47 years ago. Doubt you could convince my son of that either after his '16 Silverado he bought new puked an engine and 8 computers at 40K miles. So how's your Kia roller skate holding up???
@@bultacowally well your “cuda” wouldn’t qualify as he specified after 1980. And Chevy is junk your son should have bought a Tundra if he wanted a long lasting full size truck.
I was told that the 2018 and later 6.4 Hemi was given different lifters which prevents this issue. Is there any truth behind this? If so, did the change prevent this issue in newer 6.4 hemi engines?
@@hahaadventures4838 good to know. I have a 2021. When it idles there is no tick but I have started to notice a whoop whoop noise at idle.
All of these Hemi engines needs a much higher volume oil pump to keep the oil pressure up at idle.
Everyone of these engines needs a hellcat oil pump. Not higher pressure just higher volume especially at lower RPMs. I think that would certainly help the situation!
What about all the metal shavings did the oil filter catch them all or are you gonna have them floating around in the motor to cause different issues later?
Have to flush and change the oil a couple times and good to go.
@@FrostbiteRam oh ok I see I was in the market for the 6.4 hemi but idk now lol
You can flush an engine easier by adding kerosene to the oil, add a cheap filter and attach a strong fridge magnet to the outside barrel. Don't start it, but crank the engine over to pressurize the passages, drain the pan and cut the filter open. Rinse and repeat
After owning several Dodge trucks and having to return to the dealer several times with each truck including a complete motor replacement on a truck with 2000 miles I'm done.
Cant blame you
I bought a new 2016 6.4 hemi in 2016 and it had a knock since day 1. I traded it in with 16k miles on a cummins. Now I have a new 2020 ford f250 lariat with the 7.3 gas. I was gonna get another ram, but i do not like the 6.4 hemi.
I can't blame you a bit.
The 7.3's are having issues with valve springs. Just a FYI to look out for.
There all junk!!!!!!! 70,000 p.o.s.
Jeez, you're rakin' in the dough. Ya own a gold mine or something?
Just about to do my first oil change on my 20 Power Wagon, it’s got 7k miles. First Hemi and first new truck, now I know to change the oil sooner from now on
Oil change has nothing to do with it. Change your can and lifters, go with aftermarket performance parts
Quality of oil and filter is also figured into longevity. If it’s on sale, avoid it!!
I have 6.4 hemi with no issues, my sister inlaw has a 5.7 hemi and she has the lifter issue. The difference is I use the proper oil and she went conventional oil because the lube joint told her its just as good.
Thanks for making this! I've been currently shopping, looking at a possible 2500 with a 6.4, and it's good that it's something to be aware of. Sucks that you can't "inspect" this issue more easily so that you can tell whether or not it's good for a while, or if it's starting to show signs that it will fail and cause you bigger headaches. Thank you!
that is miss info ford power stroke suck that dude is a ford guy lying
Had a 6.4 hemi 3500 ram work truck that we put well over 400k miles on before it was taken out of service
I’d definitely question his maintenance habits. That cam looked like shit.
You can’t go just by the oil light. Idling. Heavy tow plays a factor in the oil life. If you’re using the truck like that you need to be changing oil more frequently.
The computer in the truck tells you how many miles you have left it's pretty easy
@@lauramurray6690 I just put 3000 miles on a cross country trip and my oil life gauge says I have 80 percent oil life left. I will change my oil within the next 250 miles. I change every 3000-3500 miles. I could care less what that oil life gauge says.
I just ordered a 2022 Power Wagon (Dont have it for about 12 weeks).... Same Motor...I always use synthetic, but would it help to put a moly coating or other (sticky) product in the oil? I'm not a mechanic, so just curious to ask one....
Change oil on time and stay away from long idling is best advice i could give.