D&D Story: EVERYONE in town shops at the black market
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- Опубликовано: 29 ноя 2017
- This is a story from our Dungeons and Dragons game where we got arrested for going into a black market. Hope you guys enjoy it!
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All the DM had to do was say that there was an outside ruling entity that enforced the laws of magic being illegal, and while the local government disagreed, the ruling government would not tolerate dissenters.
Bada-bing Bada-boom, you've explained yourself and now you've done some world building.
Exactly, wish I could thumbs up more than once
I was thinking the same thing. The dm probably didn't know how to improvise very well.
I was thinking something similar, magic had to be outlawed to maintain peace with a powerful neighbor was specifically my thoughts.
That would require the DM to think about things using logic.
@@pedrocruz-ds6bj as I see it the DM probably set this thing up and invested so much time in his dilema that he was just not able to adapt his. I think its a common problem in authors or DMs who think of themself as too awesome and intelligent. I had this in my first games as DM. Created a ton of moral and wicked dilemas and decissions to make and lost the whole storyline when my players didn't give a damm about what could be right but just did random stuff. So I learned the most important DM rule: Its not about the DM to present how awesome he is but about the group to enjoy themselfs.
This is like the conversation between ManRay and Patrick about wether or not Patrick’s wallet was actually Patrick’s wallet
makes sense to me
my head hurts
Can anyone truly own anything? Who are we to lay claim to a wallet. What IS an id. The inner machinations of my mind are an enigma. Beyond the comprehension of mere men!
you are the government, right?
yup.
so that means that you can change the law that restricts your trade of goods and thus get rid of the need for the black market.
that makes sense to me
so get rid of the black market!
BuT whERE wOuLD WE GEt Our MonEy?
@@francescolombardi3438 p0⁰0⁰
"Sell your magical goods in regular shops"
"That's illegal"
"So make it legal"
"Then we'd lose money without a black market"
"So sell your magical goods in regular shops"
"That's illegal"
I wanna die
sorry, but that's illegal
. . . is killing you, illegal? >->
Nevermind, we's gonna find out!
*ROLL FOR INITIATIVE!!!*
An IQ of literal 1
Just name the place "black market", you can even buy their stock on the stock market.
Politics in a nutshell
It would have been hilarious if the inquisitor had been pretending to be stupid as a form of psychological torture.
She was torturing people she was torturing us the viewers
this is my exact thought.
My bigger question is..why the hell do they have an inquisitor in the first place? What kind of town is this?
@@Azraeltheangelofdeath a spanish one
Honestly, that's what I thought she'd say when she started saying "You know that I'm the Inquisitor, right?"
It sounds basically like the DM just wanted the black market to exist for story reasons but didn't put much thought into it at all.
Probably very young or... unsmart.
So this DM forced the party towards the black market, failed to make the party care about this town, and then gave the shittiest argument possible for the market's existence in the first place.
Was this the same DM that refused to let you die, or were you just using that drawing for the sake of ease?
Tim Thissen Pretty sure this is the usual DM drawing for DMs that make stupid decisions.
That's assuming he knows more than one DM who's that level of stupid.
Tim Thissen
Welcome to Puffin Forest. It's basically torture porn for D&D.
A sinister method of getting the wizard to the black market without meta knowledge, would be to have a passer-by accidental cut him with a poisonous weapon - with the only cure being in the black market.
Oh, a player wants to split the party, sure you can - under penalty of death!
It troubles me how he acts like it's normal and how dm's normally act
A black market isn't usually an actual market. It is a shop keeper selling something on the side. So one of the shopkeeper's should be saying out loud "I don't sell magic items here" while pointing to their backdoor for you to meet them there where they will sell you magical items. That's a black market.
GeorgeMonet many GMs just don’t get how crime works
@Jonathan Lird That's a perfect representation of how many NPCs act in D&D sessions with bad DMs... Heck, even with good DMs, lots of players act like that.
Well, there could be a black market as giant as this one, although, I would dare to say it should be run by pirates, who have access to imported/stolen goods, also it should be a high secret thing.
Black market sales are a lot of winking
Wrong.
The black market is a market, in an economic sense, not in a physical sense.
It is a term to refer to a community that sells and buys illegal objects, services and private information, it is not affixed to a location other than the immediate region where the community exists.
Also to the 517 people that gave him likes, seriously? *stare of disapproval* ಠ_ಠ
After reading the comments I like how people have hundreds of ways of making the DM’s dumb plot Work, but the DM himself couldn’t think of anything when he was creating the town
There are also many who give pretty easy answers to the dumb plot. Here is one as well, there is a national goverment that imposes laws onto the city with hefty fines for breaking their laws. Or maybe there is one rich merchant who cornerstoned the real market and imposed heavy taxes forcing the normal people underground. Hell, in a matter of 1 minute, I made a ez plot.
I find a lot of DM's are good at running modules but not making their own worlds, it takes either a lot of work or being extremely good at improvisation to do that kind of thing. What's worse is a lot of DM's transferring from module based to more open ended homebrews tend to still think of their stories as linear but the modules are designed to railroad people without letting them know it, most new story designers don't have the subtlety to pull that off.
DevilDude912 I think the best way to learn how to be more creative is to do the one day prep technique. I did it in the marine corps, where I would maybe get 11 hours to a day to prep a session. I would do this every day for like three weeks until we finished the campaign and wanted to move on to a new one.
Yeah... This DM is also shut because of the whole “no you don’t stay behind” thing. You need to do that shit impersonally. That is one shit DM.
I mean, the DM probably did have a way; these stories are all incredibly bias and obviously omitting details to make Puffin Forest seem correct 100% of the time (when attempting to seem correct).
Your DM is pretty railroady
Eh, when it comes to buying items time, my DM would just let us walk around and cause the problems. It ends up going about as well as you would think. Turned my Halfling Barbarian/Warlock into a mini-Centurion, so not all bad things happen.
Lukas Watson thank you :-) I'm glad you think that way
Chugga Chugga Chugga Chugga CHOO CHOO!!
was once railroaded into riding on the railroad
Inexperienced DMs running poorly written adventures for 4th Edition. It's not really the DM's fault. We all have to start somewhere.
This plot would easily make sense if he just made it so instead of magical items being illegal in that one town they were illegal throughout the province that way the local government had no control over it and that's why they'd be supporting a black market secretly
Moon Man and especially if they were enforcing the law in all of the nearby towns and this town helped out with that. That way this town would get all of the black market sales.
It's the same in Kuba and it's called communism.
Yes but that would require your gm not being shit.
Or they used to have a legitimate market that underperformed, so the rulers decided to drum up business by making magical items "nominally" illegal, adding the sexiness of a clandestine, underground market, with big mark-ups and kickbacks and such stuff.
Except for having things being illegal under punishment is generally a very good persuasion to not do a thing, for example, you go to Barnes and Nobles, stealing is illegal, you steal, you get caught, you go to jail. It's not like they made stealing illegal to make stealing look more appealing, they did it, in fact, for the exact opposite reason. In fact, in your scenario, by making magic items illegal to create the black market, all you would do is increase the value of magic items and in a town that already had financial troubles the people who didn't have money wouldn't be able to buy and the people who did who had the money and the ability to get those magic items would move to a place where they could make money or switch professions, lest they run out of money as well. All that, not to mention the consequences of getting caught... in what is equivalent to medieval times. Also we're talking about a medieval equivalent, high fantasy, world, information in those times, the times where people had to move on foot from location to location or ride some animal to get there, moved *extremely* slowly, in those times you didn't have the media trope of a clandestine, criminal thing being cool and sexy. In those times you had the Inquisitions, they even had an Inquisitor in that game according to the story, and torture and public executions and prisoners being treated like dirt. Think about it like Scooma in Elder Scrolls, people don't flock to buy Scooma because it's illegal and sexy, most people don't want that shit, especially because it's dangerous, not just to their health, but also because if they're caught with it, they'll be arrested and put into those horrible jails.
Easier solution:
"I stole armor from a paladin"
*roll charisma*
Just saying, could've tried that.
Depending on his oath, he couldn’t have done that. Some paladin’s oaths include never lying.
GamerWolf
Paladin: *tells a white lie to obvious criminals in order to avoid putting his party in danger*
DM: «You’re an oathbreaker now.»
@@Gormathius
Considering the fickle nature of enchanted conditional oaths (pillar of salt) I wouldn't place sole blame on the DM.
Irving IV
Bruh. I was mocking the rules, not the DM.
@@Gormathius
Such is the peril of ambiguity.
Unless your GM was trolling you on purpose, I say he's a really... limited guy.
It's an Inquisitor. They torture. 100% intentional
@@McBehrer well that explains why the inquisitor was bent on torturing, but doesn't explain the entirety of why the black market exists in the first place.
@@m1ckyg21
Right, right. (Wow, this was an old comment; I had to REALLY THINK to remember the context)
But the Inquisitor acting like he couldn't follow the logic was 100% an act, and part of the torture. I guarantee it. That's all
@@McBehrer yes, but as he said, it doesn't explain why it was set up that way in the first place.this isn't a black market, this is just, "the other market"
@@ScepticLlama
I know that. That is irrelevant to that particular conversation, and to my comment
The DM could have gotten himself out of it easily: Magic is illegal on the State/Federal level.
City council can't flaunt state or federal law, but they can turn a blind eye and generate a bunch of off the Record, and therefore non-taxable, revenue for the town.
In addition:
Federal Agents or non-corrupted officers could have been drawn to the ruckus, explaining why the city guard had to 'bust' everyone to the point the Black Market dried up. It could even be a plot point moving forward, as these agents bail the party out of jail right before the torture session. Depending what happens next, they might even plan an event to celebrate. Something nice and public that would put the party in the center of town on a specific date and time. The assassins getting their revenge for a simple 'bribe gone wrong' would inevitably follow.
Ggcpres yes this
Ggcpres Yeah from what we’ve heard of this DM he doesn’t seem like he’s the best at his job and would rather make excuses than make sense.
@Ggcpres the problem with that is if magic is illegal on a State/Federal level then there's a reason, and it's going to be enforced. Like taxes, you don't just get to shirk taxes by being a city, so you wouldn't get to "ignore" magic sales. That's not even touching on the idea that having, and using magic outside of the city would also be illegal (and an awful idea for a setting in a fantasy based game like this seems to be). The problem is there's no good reason for magic to both be illegal and for the legal authorities to be allowing it's sale at the same time, especially not within a "black market" design. This is clearly the case of someone wanting a "mysterious black market" with a "moral decision" that was poorly implemented.
Like Boss Hogg making money off of moonshine ?
It was basically a regular market that just so happened to be underground.
MrCompassionate01 and it couldn’t be taxed
MrCompassionate01
Which is actually a pretty cool setting, the bazaar of weird goods at the mouth of the dungeon... too bad this story didn't go there.
Yeah and either the members of the council had an int 3 or the dm.
Someguy but if the government know about it he could just make it legal, without paying taxes either like wut?
There is no resistance there, literally the person in charge know it and was in favor of it.
isn't like real world and drugs for example, were you can be in favor of lesser ones like marijuana, tabaco, alcohol, coffee,etc to personal consume but be against like crack, morphine, opium, cloud9/Flakka,etc
Some make the argument people get dependent of this stuff and should be partially illegal
Some say it should just liberate everything, so on
There none of this here, is like a kid trying to be edgy for the sake of it or like the stupid asshats who walk into a police station carrying a m16 and don't want to be stooped just to be edgy or something
I'm agreeing with Mr. Compassionate. It not being taxed means the council gets less money.
I love the train sound effect. There is only one time as a DM I railroaded the players... That was when I put them on a literal railroad as they raced down a mine shaft in a cart. Battling foes, dodging obstacles, and jumping from mine cart to mine cart as the railroad collapsed behind them. They loved it :)
I am late but this is probably the most literal saying of railroad and I love it
So, Temple of Doom?
The concept COULD have worked if the ban on magical items was *regional*, or if the whole *region* had enormous tariffs on magical items.
Now the local council can make a deal with criminals saying "we'll let you sell magical items and tax you half of what the high lord of xland would, and the guards will protect you and help keep the secret".
Yeah and then they could also have part of the black market inventory be stolen from other countries that are secretly making magical weapons against the region's treaty imposed ban.
Which in turn also turn a blind eye to the market since they don't want to admit to breaking the treaty etc.
The premise was good, just not fleshed out enough.
@@clockw0rk843
Big scale criminals are paying taxes by laundering money soooo
@@clockw0rk843 nah, they exist to sell illegal goods wherever there's a demand for them. A great example would be alcoholic drinks during the US' prohibition period.
So your DM wrote himself into a plot hole and you all got jailed for it. Awesome.
I would have written it that the part of the world had it illegal and not just one town
but you need magical items to complete the game...
Maybe the Assassins shouldn't have started shit with the Paladin who sure is lawful, but apparently wasn't lawfully stupid enough to cut off their sole source of magical items
Now that’s good DMing
To be fair, they got jailed because the Paladin decided to defuse the situation by STABBING SOMEONE.
5:45 That sounds like the dm getting mad at you for pointing out the big ass fla
w in the story
This GM got REALLY personal about this. Then again, he basically trident-poked him into the plot, rail-roaded it heavily and then didn't even have an actual plot with legs and it got pointed out.
This is the point where some groups dissolve into OOC arguments over what the heck the GM things makes any of this 'right'.
Tyler Basile my DM runs this campaign he's done it like ten times and he gives the same speech about this pirate his ship comes I to view on the sails of his ship is his emblem it's a picture of his face and then we get destroyed and shipwrecked usually people don't actually see the pirate for awhile after seeing his ship because you have to fight canables first but we had strange people who desided to jump over to their ship in a storm and when he describes the pirate captain in his usual way and the pirate wears a hat and when it got to this part he says he's wearing a hat and on the hat is his emblem we all look at him and one of are group members say so he has his face on his hat he looks really confused and says no he has his emblem on his hat I speak up "but isn't his emblem just his face?" He ponders this for a few seconds and then is like "yes yes it is...... he has his face on his hat" no one in all this time has ever recognized that not even me...
That then became a running joke until we killed him and for a short while after that
hole crap i have a comment with more the 200 likes
Flaw*
Isn't killing DM's unethical? ;)
Manray: "Sir, i think you dropped your market"
Patrick: "No, thats a black market"
What really happened: The GM discovered the term 'Black Market', thought it was SUPER COOL(TM) and decided to put in the game.
I have a feeling you’re 100% correct.
When the inquisitor asked "you do know what inquisitors do right?" I thought the payoff was gonna be that the roundabout argument getting nowhere WAS the torture, and was really disappointed when that was not the case.
same
That gives this particular DM way too much credit.
Hey man if she's an inquisitor it makes sense since that conversation is the worst torture i've witnessed.
Im sure that torture breaks a lot of laws. Like, all of them.
Oooh, you might have got upon something there.
@Alexander 1133 Only if done on Sovereign Soil, So the jail is actually just outside of city limits so they can torture all they want.
It wasn't much of a black market...More of an edgy market.
Edgy is the new black
Emo market
A morally grey market
A Shadow the Hedgehog market
The edgy Mc-My-Chemical-Romance market.
“Why don’t you sell the goods normally?”
Inquisitor: “Wait. That’s Illegal.
Next thing you know, the town council got burn down to the ground
To flip the star wars line: THEN MAKE IT LEGAL.
“But that’s against the law.” “YOU MAKE THE LAW!”
Crow senpai yeah and it’s not that hard to simply say, yeah we want to make it legal but the count or baron or something wants to keep it illegal and he has the final say.
Inquisitor: *"LAAAAAAWW"* _Turns and walks away_
I am the LAW
LAWL
The fact that a bunch of crooked politicians benefited from, lets say, prohibition, didn't mean that they could have gotten the same thing from legitimate trade - the opposite in fact. Also a black market is unregulat-ed/able, so they could have potentially collected way more in kickbacks than what they would have gotten in taxes. There's also the question of paying taxes to the King - the black market would keep those earning secret. There are SO SO MANY WAYS that a local government could profit from illegal trade.
All you'd have to do to fix this plot:
Add a group of non-progressive NPCs who hate magic. In order to prevent a rebellion, the king keeps magic items illegal. But he does absolutely nothing to stop the trade because it is the lifeblood of the town.
Won't fix the GM railroading, but at least the plot wouldn't be completely stupid.
That would CAUSE a rebellion as all the market and the ones who want to rebel would have free rein to just set up a conspiracy.
Have neighboring nations/towns who hate magic. They need to keep it "illegal" to not piss them off.
alternative is to just say that instead of being mad at you for discovering the black market, the government rewards you and declares you as heroes. Meanwhile the rest of townsfolk are mad because now no money is coming in
@Neon, that doesn't solve anything. The people in power who make the laws declared magic illegal. They are in power, so they also have the military might to stay in power. They have no reason as to why magic is illegal, and more so, they even agree it's a good way to make money and base an economy off of, so they use it. There is no reason for this "black market" to exist, it's a bad GM writing a bad story, laying it out in a bad way, and expecting the players to just be grateful that they get the opportunity to roll dice in his game.
When your DM doesn't quite grasp economics.
Or understands how the black market works (spoiler: it's not a literal place with dim lighting)
@@Ellisepha I dont evne think its in person anymore, its all on the internet.
Unless one guy was paying for that law so everyone who wanted anything magical to buy or sell had to invest in his sprawling shopping mall. He would collect 'taxes' and a percent ends up going back to the town. It's sort of like 'trademarking magic'
@@KillerOrca Sadly the internet is quite a commodity in generic fantasy land
@@emiledlund9559 Entirely fair. Though even back then I doubt it worked like that.
"the friendly local Walmart.... If Walmart wasn't so sketchy"
Local man got banned from Walmart after eating half a cake, to pay half price
*ahem* Walmart is always sketchy, just saying XD
My dad got his tires slashed by Walmart when he tried to unionize their workers. Dont buy at Walmart if you have a chance to go anywhere else
I had to turn on the subtitles to make sure I'd heard that correctly
If my DM tried to make that kind of argument for the black market I'd be flying over the table and hitting him
You would of liked my DM, we went to a town where slaves and numerous other stuff was for sell, no black market, just straight up the town was evil, it was filled with half-monsters, slaves, items that were illegal in other towns, and corrupt enough to make a demon wretch. Was good times, till the Dragons took over and we had to go to the cities actual black market, which sold items to counteract all the evil of the city, and setup an escape plan for us to get out of there before the Dragon army found us and killed us. We got attacked by some face hugging insects in the sewers during the escape.
Flying? No. I'm taking over as Dm and as the new dm and strangling the old one would justify the original claim with a empire that is a thousand times worse.
That's right, Local law doesn't supersede imperial law, and now you all have a new challenge as the inquisitor after sweating the entire time talking to you in such a strange manner Bursts into black flames after slipping up on a particular detail of the arrangement.
Stryder
Same
Once I had a black market that wasn't necessarily existing for the purpose of illegal goods (albeit some can be found there, including several fencing branches). The main purpose was that the tiny market open to the public was always overshadowed by the better, more renowned market the town over. So of course they didn't get much business, in fact, most of the people in the tiny market aren't even from the town!
Although a good portion of the town would just go to the town over for their goods (clothes, food, etc) many didn't at all. Which hardly makes sense because hardly anyone buys from their general market... Well, what they do (even some youth, like 14-16 year olds) would go around people they know to be connected to the black market and purchase from the vendors involved. The appeal was taxless markets that fully benefited the vendor/producer and not the government at all.
Over years, the town ended up being self run by a town militia and a figurehead official. That's just their way of life.
+UberKrassMann it's not about the plot being weak
it's about the plain stupid "everyone and their mother knows about the black market and agrees with its existence but it's still illegal because reasons" part
How would death be sweet release if the person about to enslave everyone is a necromancer? If anything, death would just make you have to work harder
... make you work harder... + longer (like for all eternity, or unless some adventurer puts the necromancer down... permanently).
@@caiawlodarski5339 Actually it is more like your soul stucking in a limbo.
Not complete control but you still feel pain
@wesleythomasm
Ah, magic-reinforced, gold plated, jewel encrusted skeleton puppets.
The greatest luxury any magic user can afford.
Your soul passes on, only the corpse is reanimated.
In my friend's campaign, we had a rogue that was part of an anarchist group and would regularly meet with members or collect stuff for the group IN FRONT OF OUR PALADIN CITY GUARD.
I mean, my favorite take on this scenario is a little different. I had a town that had a thieves guild, and the guild would extort money, and steal from the townsfolk, but the townsfolk were happy because their graceful lord would lower taxes in order to compensate the townsfolk for their loss.
The party thought that this was dumb because it meant that the lord couldn't hire guards to defend them from the thieves guild, and apon further investigation, they realized that the lord was in charge of the thieves guild. He was using it to milk extra money out of the people, while lowering taxes to stay in their good graces.
They then had dig for information and go through so much fighting and political discourse to expose the lie that they realized it was probably just better not to try from the beginning.
It's not that I didn't want them to rescue the town, in fact had they, I probably would have rewarded them greatly for it, maybe even giving them a writ that allowed them lordship or at the very least a council seat in the towns affairs, but I mostly did it because I liked to think that the easiest way for a dark group of people to get away with dark deeds are to have sway in the highest reaches of their territory, and it just doesn't make sense to have some kind of omnipotent group hiding in the shadows of a fine every day happy-go-lucky society.
i might steal this
I'm just saying, but with the DM basically forcing its party members to do what the DM wants (going to a specific place), and also not giving much thought to the reasoning behind his "blackmarket" scheme. This guy doesn't sound like the greatest DM.
What if magic's just illegal everywhere, and the other towns' militaries will just wipe them off the face of the planet if this black market thing ever went public? So they have to pretend that the guards are against it if it ever does get out.
I don't know how the politics works in that specific setting, but maybe either the king/queen of the land has declared it illegal, or if all towns are self governing, distain for magic is so ubiquitous that if anybody knew the town was encouraging the trade of magical artefacts they'd make a lot of enemies.
I think the explanation is way simple than this Katie. I think the DM is just bad as a DM. He forces player to go where he wants, has an incoherent plot and no explanation to back this up, I even think the torture is a way to take revenge on the player who show how stupid this blackmarket story was (and he has not speak about the fact that everyone was arrested by the guards, which is stupid if the black market was known and approved by the city.).
Lets not forget the moral "dilemma" with zero weight.
One simple way to make this work is to say that magic is banned due to people using them in a local coliseum, sort of like P.E.Ds in sports, but the town inquisitor is secretly heading the black market to make some extra cash on the side. So when the heroes bust it up and she goes down there to arrest them and later question them, she tells them that because of them her operation has been foiled and she will make them suffer for it.
A DM should never force someone to take a certain action...
LightningBlaze100 they're the dm, they can do whatever they want
It's not a bad idea to let a player know they're basically writing themselves out of an important scene and giving them a cue, as opposed to sitting there bored for a long time as the other players do the important stuff.
TooIntenseForSpace, a dm can also make a invincible enemy that kills everyone in one hit with no escape, but SHOULD the dm do that? i mean, "they're the dm, they can do whatever they want" right?
A good DM should have a good reason for making the characters go and do something. They control everything and know everything important about the pc. It is the mark of a bad DM to railroad and just tell people "no, you should go do this thing because its the dungeon I planned".
You're point? So what if the DM can do whatever they want, that doesn't mean they should be a shitty one, that is no excuse. Whatever the fuck point you're trying to make is a pretty dumb one.
Paladin: *leans over and whispers* "I've got a plan" than immediately starts killing people
I think maybe the paladin should have been a barbarian
I don't know, seems paladin-y to me. All he would need to do is shout about JUSTICE!
Wait, the premise made no sense. If everyone knew the Black Market was there, then why would the town guard even bother investigating at all??
"Who would have thought all the black market activity was centered in a place literally call The Black Market(tm) that everyone knows about and is in an easily found fixed location?"
Because one of the not-policemen got killed and that's a murder.
The DM's reason to have a black market sounded like the part in Idiocracy where they talk about why they use Brawndo to water plants.
"Brawndo is what plants crave. It's got electrolytes."
"Do you even know what they are?"
"It's what they use to make Brawndo."
"Yeah, but why do they use them to make Brawndo?"
"...'cause Brawndo's got electrolytes."
This is a prime example of circular reasoning
"Oh My God!!! This is like talking to a blacksmith and him asking me where all these swords come from!!!"
blacksmith: "every morning i wake up bright and early to find all my ingots replenished and my sold swords back in their places. if i turn ingots into swords, ingot sales go down and sword profits go up, and all i have to show for it are these sweet muscles. i started hiding things, locking them up, but nothing helped. everyone thought i was crazy, except for the barkeep and potion seller. we all have this same issue."
@@boldCactuslad actually not a bad plot hook for some sort of time magic loop.
“So... Lemme get this straight... Your town creates the rules for other towns that you also have to follow, right?”
“Right”
“So, you can make selling magic items illegal in other towns, right?”
“Right”
“That means you could make a market full of magical items to help the town get money, while others can’t, right?”
“Right”
“Alright, I get it now, sorry for causing trouble”
Can Paladins not lie? If they can, then why not just claim he killed a Paladin and wears the armor as a trophy?
Paladins are strictly Lawful Good, Lying is a no no.
Pally Dan You can be Lawful Good and still lie to people.
Evil is the absence of good so lying while bad does not necessarily mean evil though evil use it as a weapon and good person who lies to much would become untrustworthy.
@Pally Dan Paladins are Lawful Good not Lawful stupid. They might not be able to break their alignment but that which can not be broken can surely be bent.
They were already bending it by going to the illegal market to shop for magic items. It wouldn't have been much more to not wear paladin armor and kept his mouth shut.
Bomber Jac i thought that was where he was going when he said if i play my cards right we just might get out of this unscathed.
So here's what that DM should have said: "This town used to make and depend on the trade of magical items, but a while ago the town ticked off the king, so by the king's decree the town's lifeblood the trade in magical items was banned."
Then you have a reason for the town to want to have and support a black market while at the same time being forced to shut it down due to the commotion as they don't want to draw the ire of the king.
Well, you've put more thought into it than the DM did :)
Yeah the only thing that DM needed to do was say "hey, the town council had no control over the laws in this town"
OR... The town is running a scam on adventurers where magic is "illegal", "forcing" the merchants to to sell their goods at an greatly inflated price. They are running from the law after all. The town gets a cut and everyone (except the cheated adventurers) is happy.
Alex Parker -
Or you do what is explicitly listed as part of the rules in a favorite RPG of mine, Feng Shui. They have a character creation rule where all PCs must have a "melodramatic hook" where the GM says something like: "This campaign requires you to fight gangsters and supernatural monsters, and it starts in the town's black market. Tell me why your character is there, and why they would involve themselves in a fight."
This is the single best RPG advice/rule I've got in my bag of goodies, since it forces the players to involve themselves at the start, and feel like they have a say in the plot.
4:12 "But it's Brawndo! It's what plants crave!"
That girl with the ponytail: you do realize that I’m an inquisitor, right?
Do you know what inquisitors do?
My elf wizard rael: they inquisit?
lol, GM was pissed his plot got BTFO by basic logic. Off to the iron maiden with you.....solver of the town's problems and morale dilemas!
As an economist, the thing that is like nails on chalk board for me is when some "economics" wrong in their game.
You are 100% right about the black market. The point of black markets are to sell restricted good and avoid tariffs. The fact that town council was making money off it means it effectively had tariffs on it and the fact that town council was okay with its existence means they did really restrict the good.
This is why I hate "thieve's guilds".
Why don't you like thieves guilds? They're basically the mafia of D&D.
+TC IronBear
If you're an economist, you *really* should be well aware that black markets that governments know about and either turn a blind eye to or even participate in are a real thing. I will give 3 examples.
1: In North Korea, there is a black market for things like food and handmade goods. They can't officially sanction it due to ideological reasons, but turn a blind eye because it helps alleviate the stress of the failings of their centrally planned model.
2: In the Second World War, the US Govt got pretty cozy with the mafia. We gave them a wider latitude for their activities in exchange for their assistance in espionage and counter espionage. It seems that this isn't the only instance of this sort of things the US govt has engaged in, but it is probably the most well known.
3: In Nigeria, the water infrastructure is supposed to be centrally planned. In practical reality, their government is such a mess that only 20% of the people have access to an officially sanction source of safe drinking water. On the other hand, there is a strong black market for water purified by entrepreneurs. So much so that this is probably the main way that Nigerians get their water. These operations are unlicensed, untaxed, and illegal. Even so, the Nigerian NAFDAC works with these companies to test their water and even stamps approved products.
ColonelSandersLite the OP didn't say such agreements don't exist at all. He said they don't work as described by the DM and explained why.
The examples you mentioned are extreme, and in fact you felt the need to make sense of them by talking about the peculiar reasons why these governments tolerate such activities and what they gain from them, like avoiding massive riots due to lack of clean water and other basic necessities, or gaining a new tool against the enemy in a period of intense warfare.
These examples fit neither with a generic scenario, nor with this adventure.
Joeseph Moore
Good thought but the 40$ beer only worked because at best 10% of people where involved (leaving 90% of pop. To pay for profits)
It sounds like 100% of the town is involved at one part or another of supply chain. Who pays to make it profitable?
Can't turn a profit if 100% of your customers are shareholders of the company.
Another thing to consider is that these magic items are legal everywhere else, so what's stopping people from simply buying their items from a town with better prices?
The conversation at 4:13 reminded me of ManRay trying to return Patrick's wallet
"You know what inquisitors do, right?"
"YES I KNOW! YOU TORTURE PEOPLE! YOU'VE BEEN TORTURING ME THIS ENTIRE CONVERSATION!!!"
I do not understand why police closed black market if everyone in charge of the city(town council) knew about it and let it exist.
RUclips RUclips yeah that was the joke dipshit.
because it's illegial
Because dipshit DM
I think it has more to do with the black market being completely exposed. They did not want to be seen as colluding with the vendors to inflate the price of goods by making them illegal, so they had to put on an act in order to avoid scrutiny either by merchants or some governing body.
It would be like if you passed prohibition in your town and your mates were all bootleggers making insane profits from being the majority providers for booze in the region, but then they get discovered (fire breaks out, shoot-out, etc) you have to pretend you had no knowledge or involvement by maintaining the law-upholding facade and arresting them in case a higher authority is observing the events.
its because the black market is the lifeblood of the town
When the people you play with don't understand economics.
Play as a banker......
you'll like these
ruclips.net/video/f7pMYHn-1yA/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/MS2aEfbEi7s/видео.html
Those vids were great. My father would love em
Clearly... the black market was a scam to get people to pay more for items that they thought were illegal. If they were legal, then they wouldn't be able to charge insane prices for stuff. Also, any time they catch someone with a magical item, they can confiscate it and resell it. Basic scam-artist economics, man! ;)
This does not make sense! The town only has a black market because it would be a tourist attraction?? They could achieve the same effects without outlawing magical items. Why not get magical street performers or be a go to place for traders since it’s a good distance away from the desert? The inquisitor is not making since, the people running that town doesn’t make any since, and finally if you want to make bank on your magical goods; WHY NOT ADVERTISE THEM!!! A black market is normally for items that can’t be obtained by legal means and therefore it location is always kept a secret from law enforcement and regular folks to make room for ideal costumers such as cut throats or questionable buyers/sellers. If the law enforcement knows about it, if the town knows about it, then it’s not a black market but a shopping center trying to be edgy!
Unless the "No magic" law was from higher up(like a region law). The black market would be an effective way to bypass it, and they would be able to charge more for products.
As someone who has only been aware of your channel for a week, but has also watched all of your content within said week. I must say that your animations are swiftly improving. Likewise with your audio. Well done sir.
Does the GM know how Black Markets work? They don't tax their items. *The government doesn't get any money.* This doesn't help the economy at all.
it can help the average person , by seling the itens for higher prices , which doesen't explain why the people simply don't buy itens somewhere eçse
I think the idea was bribery. Paying off officials for some mutual win-win scenario, but the shit gm couldn't even explain _that_ with a grain of sense or reason (or more likely never thought of that in the first fucking place)
Ofc the GM doesn't know how black market trade works, he thinks the black market is an actual underground market place.
No, it only help CORRUPT OFFICIALS. Of course, in a town where the black market is a huge deal, there's no chance of that, right?
It does help the economy. Government income from tax is not how you measure the strength of the economy but rather how much the government interferes in it.
Economic strength is a factor of wealth, standard of living, culture of innovation, lack of trade regulation and productive output.
You can qualify it by income but thats a really bad metric. If you use 'needs met' or 'persons in abject poverty' thats slightly better. GDP is slightly better. Exports vs imports is better. Best would be market confidence or total prosperity.
solutions.
1. for the paladin. "I stole this armor, it's cool."
2. for the black market deal. "Well, the kingdom is fine, but our king is very paranoid about magic weapons."
"-a ballpit of live grenades."
I am *so* using that for future analogies, hahaha.
You need a better DM
There is tons of advantages to have black market while you are ruling body of city.
1. Hiding big powerful trade from king of the land, no taxes or regulations from him.
2. You can destroy any competion by sending them to jail.
3. If someone manages to fuck you over, you can just jail him.
4. If some one buys some really expensive shit you can confiscate it and sell it again.
5. If you are in trouble you can take down whole black market and score tons of political points in procces.
6. You can sell counterfeit magic items and nobody can sue you.
all great reasons, way better than "we can't"
Many of those reasons would make people scared of the market. Why use the blackmarket when you know the gov/crooks are going to screw you over?
you understand that those are hidden reasons that a dm could use as proper plot points in a story and not something that the general populace or pc's would be aware of at the offset.
Well lets say the government uses them sparsely to the point were most people don't get hit.
Those are actually great ways to implement a "government" controlled black market, in which I have actually implemented in one of my campaigns with plot hooks dealing with the criminal underground conflict to appease the governing body of the town. However, this DM seems to be at a lost for words and clearly only wanted a black market for the sake of the mystique nature of it and nothing else.
The part that irritated me the most was the DM sort of forcing the PC to go somewhere he didn't want to go. Watch CriticalRole! There are numerous times when characters got split up and the main story continued while their characters were in a side story. Matt Mercer does a good job of improvising and finding creative ways for unexpected things to work out. A DM should learn to be flexible with unexpected decisions, and still maintain a cohesive storyline, allowing the characters to shape their own destiny.
The only problem I have with that statement is that you can't hold every DM to Mercer's standards. The man's kinda brilliant in his storytelling.
@@IrideaeSnowbloom He's an above average DM. I don't get why everybody holds him up as this gold standard of DMing, when in reality he is simply a well-known DM.
Same here
You definitely can't hold every DM to Matt's standard
Ok but he's been DM-ing for 20+ years and everyone involved in Critical Role is a professional at what they do. They have massive critical acclaim and raised millions of dollars in like, a day, for their kickstarter campaign. I don't know about you but if I had the same level of experience I would have been 4 years old when I started.
Like obviously the DM being talked about in this video didn't think it all through that great, on top of which, this is clearly being played up for comedic effect. On top of that, not every campaign has everyone okay with canonical player death. If the cleric is separate, player death is more likely. It's okay if a DM hints different things if everyone is okay with it. There's also the fact that session lengths vary and this could have been from a one-shot or another briefer campaign, which would have made building a new character to eventually join when it seems smoother not really plausible.
They had a black market so they could increase the price of the items and take away any magic items brought in and then sell them
Our DM is good at not pushing us in a certain direction and letting us do what we want :) Most of the time this will lead to us messing around and playing drinking games and knife throwing games in a tavern for ages XD
That is the one specific and exact reason to why DM pushing exists. While goofing off in the tavern could be fun to some of the party members, the rest will complain about not getting anywhere. Needless to say, it is extremely unfair towards the DM, who spent time and effort preparing a campaign.
Yeah, just bad writing. Obviously the GM didn't think out the implications of his hook. A hook that needed him to strong arm you into getting involved with.
the plot would make sense if the town had used the black market to ramp up the prices of magical goods to make more money off of them but that still wouldn't make much sense because then my wouldn't customers just go to another town were it wasn't illegal
"Because then it stops being a tourist attraction."
Soooo I actually had a situation like this. We were running a pathfinder campaign though. I'll be honest I was not you in this scenario. I was random party member #4. They put my samurai in magic chains THEN threw him in the cell. We then argued meta game that a town with a "black market" for magic goods would most certainly not have magic chains to tie some random warrior up with, only fields of antimagic to stop casters. So an annoying councilman with two weak ass paladins comes down and goes down basically that same train and the magus was basically you in that. I got pissed off and said "I break the chains". So they're arguing while I just stand up and snap chains off my body. I proceeded to rip a bar out as well and stab the town councilman and one of the paladins to death. Everyone forgot I quietly raised his strength to a 32 (+11), but he made a big issue of that after that, even though I used methods he gave to us.... was the second to last session he held.... don't miss him dming -_-
Jokes on you, Walmart is JUST as bad.
Those Walmart penguins be shady as hell
1:47 He literally said that Walmart is worse
the joke was, "walmart, but if it was a little less sketchy" meaning, walmart is worse....meaning that a blackmarket is less sketchy than a normal walmart
You're an idiot
You probably missed a keyword in the sentence like i did the first time through. He actually says "If it weren't as sketchy."
Evil Necromancer :
Sweet release of death
Thats were youre wrong kiddo!
You just explained prohibition, thanks.
The more I watch your D&D stories the more I realize your DM kinda sucked at Their job lol
Not everyone can be a (insert your idol DM here)
Ben Walters I don't know any of those; I knew one who thought the game was a competition between the players and himself, and thought that he "won" whenever he killed the entire party, though.
zemorph42 that doesn't sound like fun
Ben Walters No, but everyone can avoid railroading and drawing things out. Or at the very least try not to.
No offense, but if my DM did that to me? I would say, "And thus, my Mage just gives up on life, unable to handle the torture. He dies; the end of his story. Avenge me, my compatriots." And then I would proceed to pack everything up and leave.
I would be like "Well... THAT WAS PALLADIN. IT WAS HIS MASTERPLAN. I'M INNOCENT. ASK ANYBODY" and hope for the best. If they don't listen I would just give up and go search for some new DM.
MaveriKat
That's a bit harsh. I'd offer to try my hand at DM'ing next time since he obviously sucks, but I'd stay in the game.
@Daniel Gehring This kind of DM is obviously a "vengeance gamer" and will take any slight to heart and remember it... and make you suffer for it in later games, whether they are the GM or a player. The only thing you can do to not fall into that spiral is to just not put yourself into it to begin with.
MaveriKat
Oh, shit, you're right. I forgot to add the part where I'd start texting other people immediately to start a new campaign explicitly banning that guy, yeah. Even if he wasn't carrying a chip on his shoulder nobody wants to have a character that dense in any side of the table.
@Daniel Gehring I don't make choices or others. Only myself. If they see it going on to them again and again, they'll wake up eventually.
This is like my 20th time watching this video since it came out. Just as good as the first time. Looking forward to 40 over the next year.
You've basically described the war on drugs.
The inquisitor could have just said
"Forcing the black market to be illegal makes its goods three times as expensive and thus makes three times the profit."
But even then it's a stupid logic.
That's a baaad DM, man...
he's HORRIBLE and needs to be punched in the dickhole EVERY MINUTE he continues to DM.
The situation could have been handled a lot better. The DM could have argued that the town wasn't making money from a regular market, so they created a black market they controlled to attract people that thought "a black market? I could get a lot of off the shelf magic items and goods from here". Basically the illusion of it being illegal peaks the interest of those that hear about it.
Boy would that have been a contrived way to sell stuff at a higher price. Instead of spreading a rumor and digging out the underground area for this, they could've just played it off saying their items are the highest quality and hardest to find. Less construction cost, less of a possibility of having criminals run a market and far, far less likely for the DM to look autistic.
To clarify, the line ''Boy would that have been a contrived way to sell stuff at a higher price.'' is a jab at the DM, not you personally, because that sure is the idea he was going for and sure tripped on the whole, ultimately impossible to profit from in this way, ordeal.
..."only if Walmart wasn't so sketchy."
#Trollmfao
A brilliant description.
Whenever you say "Don't worry, it's a little crazy, but it just might work", I'm expecting the person to ask people to piss in a bucket... Man, that left a mark.
Answer to problem: Get a new DM
Meister AnHero The players keep going back, so the DM cannot be all that bad.
Scott Gastineau you'd be surprised. Where I lived finding a group, let alone a DM is a nightmare, so we put up with our terrible one for over a year. (He disliked free will, and loved murder hobos lol)
That can only be described as Kafkaesque
Underscorer well this isn’t entirely Kalfaesque because being Kalfaesque also requires a nice unhealthy dash of shame and self loathing. This is more absurdist.
Inquisitor Thomas Hmm... I don't really think that self loathing is necessary for something to be Kafkaesque (I use the word with this sense :Marked by a senseless, disorienting, often menacing complexity.)
Really enjoying watching all these videos, happy I found this today.
0:38 “Or it’s like a key all the time and when you stick it in someone... it unlocks their death...” - Michael J. Caboose
Yet another story about how horrible your DM is. Why are you still playing with this guy?
If it's the same guy as the other videos. this guy is the textbook definition of a terrible DM.
i would roll a 20 and kill the GM , and get his place
Amosarthus
If it isn't the same guy this dude has the worst D&D luck ever.
...or these dungeon masters are different guys. We are only getting one side of each story, and it is exaggerated for humorous effect, right? That's the nature of RUclips story.
Tim Brown They might be friends
2:17 ...What was his intelligence stat? In-game and real life?
Master- ofmanga 1 and 1
Higher than the DM's.
In game stat = IQ?
- 100
Thank you youtube homepage for giving me yet another channel to sink my life into
Reminds me of John Wick, where basically EVERY business is part of some underground assassins club.
Where's the mystique when everyone is part of it?
Terrible DM
I love how all fictional stories treat the black market like it's an actual place or something. Instead of just literally anything some off the books or illegally
Black markets in Elite Dangerous, you entered shouting "I want to sell illegal goods!".
I feel the gradual rotting of my brain as I watch more and more of these videos.
And I love it.
I feel like a reasonable explanation is making it illegal essentially lets them have a monopoly on it, so they could sell it at whatever price they wanted and since nobody else is allowed to sell it, everyone has to buy it from them or not at all.
That solution doesn't work because this law only exists in this town. People could just go somewhere else and buy the goods for cheaper. i.e. how actual economics works. People will put themselves through a surprising amount of inconvenience if it means saving even a paltry amount of money.
So if EVERYONE goes to the black market, and the paladin didn't have a problem with it, why did the assassin guild have a problem with it?
Because the DM realized he's a moron and tried to distract the group from the obvious, then his autism kicked back into 5th gear and he spouted incredibly illogical shit while roleplaying as the Inquisitor.
Who says that this was the issue for those assassin-guard-dudes? Imagine that it is your job to act as a bouncer or rent-a-cop at a mall. A huge heavily armed stranger in plate mail walks into the place. Are you going to not ask who he is?
+amyhunter83
I'm sorry, his *_W H A T_* kicked in?!
"But, my lord, is that legal?"
"I will make it legal."
This is how I think the DM should have handled the situation after the arrest:
The inquisitor says with a smirk to the Wizard. "You see, when non-locals and adventurers such as yourself come into the town, we assume you do not know about the illegal law saying no magical items are allowed and are not allowed to be used, yes?" The wizard shrugs, "yes. And?" The fur-caped ginger looks down at her fingernails and scraping out grime from beneath them.
"Well, when an outsider hears about the black market being heard around town like it's no big deal, you must assume it's a popular marketplace. So what we did is that we have a secret group of guards to spot adventurers and non-locals coming into the city to play an "act" of sorts. People know the black market exists-- in fact, we RUN the marketplace and is our *MAIN* shopping area....w-we chose the cave since it's more conspicuous for black marketing and since it holds conditioning magic very well than homes and domes of illusion magic. Better to do one spell a week about a cool breeze than to do one every day about a powerful illusion magic. no?" The wizard rolls his eyes and cross his arms, impatient. "Yes, AND?"
.
The woman clears her throat. "AS. I was saying....We purposely have a black market set up just outside of town with a very minor illusion spell over the wall so that it LOOKS like a black market. And since it's a "secret" market, we are able to put the prices up higher and have much more leeway in pricing than if we were to do it in our town. If I sold you a crossbow for 100 gold in our town, and the same one for the same price that was in the black market, you may think that crossbow in the black market may have something off about it, no? So because of it, people go to the market, buy our normal-but-expensive goods, and we can get money. The arresting was a play to get you all scared--you should have seen the LOOKS on your faces when we caught you all........Buuut in all seriousness, you killed 3 of our people, so we would like any magical items you have purchased from us and leave. You're free to go."
Well, it doesn't really work.
The reason why buying things at the black market is more expensive is due to the risk of dealing with the materials.
I could go to JAIL for selling that item! That's why I charge more money then where its legal.
Due to the risk I deserve more money.
But if the government knows about it and everyone finds it acceptable. There is no risk.
Therefore, there is no excuse to have such a high price.
Angle Gaming but you get to charge that higher price to the travelers and adventurers. Unless I’m misreading the op is suggesting the townsfolk redirect the adventurers to their normal albeit spooky looking market and jack up the prices before they arrive.
GRIME
Edit: OK now I get it
1) I hate being railroaded into a scenario 2) I hate even more when the scenario is stupid, 3) I hate stupid DM's
On the black market being known thing: I get the point, but there are plenty of real-life examples of "public secrets". Things that aren't supposed to be done, but everyone kinda does them discretely, while the social game is that they're not talked about.
I love your video man. They’re literally the best ! 😁🤘
I have been benge watching this while I work, like a d&d podcast. Love it ❤️
This is the dnd equivalent to the war on drugs here in reality xD
Gingerbred_Hed thats exactly what I was thinking! 😂
Yep. That plotline would work as an corrupt government political bullshit plot, but it seems to ne that it got butchered by shit gm
totaly agreed. The idea is pretty good but probably lack of context and bad staging from the DM.
Instead of learning this from the inquisitor they should have discovered that the all council and police are corrumpted and know eveyrthing about the black market and let it happens because they earn a lot of money from the mafia who rules the black market.
And maybe even make it a little more grey: some of the council don't care about the money they got from the mafia but care about how the black market help people in the city to live in a city too poor to allow a good life (dry land around, low natural ressources, many plunders from raids in the last years...).
but that the police say it to the PC is just stupid.
Also, why were the assassins worried about the town guards discovering them, through the paladin.
The inquisitor sound like a game character with limited lines of dialogue
Okay. Best channel ever!!!! Stumbled across this tonight. Binge watching