D&D Story: Worst Games I've Played In 2 || Awkward Beginnings
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- Опубликовано: 26 сен 2024
- New video out! This is the second video in my "Worst I've Played" series. Hope you guys enjoy! In this one, I sit in on a session where my DM tries to teach two new players how to play D&D and introduce them into the hobby and it goes disastrously wrong.
Music:
"Hookah Bar" by Silent Partner. From the Yougube Audio Library
"Sunshine Samba" by Chris Haugen. From the RUclips Audio Library
DM: “I want to run a more efficient game where people aren’t constantly forgetting their abilities and all improv really well”
The people DM invited: “what’s dnd”
Nothing says "All Star D&D group" like a bunch of stone cold newbies.
Lol effect should try a different game if he want effect. Half the fun of dnd is stuff going ass over tea kettle
I thought at that point he would say that the DM was going to do a livestream
@@filipantkowiak7559
same
That's like this one guy I know who for his first ever campaign decided that he wanted us to do a 32 point buy with a max 18 possible before race modifiers. I told him this was a bad idea for a new DM. He assured me that not only did he know what he was doing but that his game was going to be streamlined and efficient. So, I know most of the players he wants to have in the game and while I like them they aren't the sharpest tools in the shed. They are specifically very forgetful. So he's like, "We HAVE to do a session zero." and I'm like "But why? You don't even seem to know the story you want to tell yourself and they're just going to forget everything you've said and come without characters prepared afterwards anyways." but he assured me that I was wrong and just being a pessimist. Smash cut to the day we're meant to play the game and guess what? I'm the only one who has a character ready and everyone claims they havent even seen the map yet despite us discussing it in session zero thoroughly. Fucking typical. So I flash the DM a smirk and he pouts. Anyways session goes normal for a while until combat comes around and immediately we all call him out on an ambush wherein we are attacked by little rock people.. except there were only four rocks that we saw and yet somehow more of them manifested out of thin air next to me upon combat starting as the DM realized that I had chosen to move to elevated terrain earlier as to act as a ranged support unit and not be on the front line. None of us were happy about this and things kept getting worse every session.
“I was one of the more serious people playing at the time. “
O No...
you can tell its going to hell when he says that
How Abserd...
This is second story he told us that a DM chose him for a serious game previous one was a starwars podcast.
To be honest by "serious" he assumed carefully picked experienced players who didn't want all randos and jokers in the game. Problem was that DM was control freak who bring only randos because he didn't like that players can go they own way. DM straight lied to him.
**chuckles** I’m in danger
3:33 "there was supposed to be another player but he bailed last minute" SMARTEST PERSON THERE
That's the player that got roped into the last attempt, I guarantee it lol
"Two new players, and we're making characters on paper? Yeah no I'm busy, I have some paint I need to watch dry."
@UberKrassMann not really, there would still be way too much rail roading even if that didn't happen.
@UberKrassMann except everyone was rail roaded heavily with the character roles and new players need to focus on just having fun over performing there "role" if they want to stay interested in the game.
@UberKrassMann I'd rather let a new player make what they want to do and do things how they want and see how that turns out, Then be disappointed its not the best Idea THAN railroad them into the optimal character taking most of their freedom in character creation and STILL make them go through the process. The latter is more likely to make them lose interest permanently than the former.
"The important thing in D&D isn't the numbers, but the storytelling."
He said after putting the new players through the numbers.
That is the point I wanted to strangle him with my mind at. I could excuse ALL the rest, 1st time player ALWAYS gets muddled and messy in various ways. BUT. You cannot put someone through all the math their first time, and then say the numbers don't matter. That comes off as "I wasted your time."
Not only put them through the numbers, also forced them to make choices based on Said numbers even after Ben tried to tell him to stop.
Quite the hypocrital DM.
@@RotaAbyssian Hypocrisy? No need to blame anything else, when stupidity is an option.
for four hours!!!
Really just a series of self-defeating attempts of running D&D.
Wants to run D&D the "right way" without realizing he's attempting to turn 4th Edition into something that it's not.
Wants combats to go swiftly, but he's running a game infamous for long combats with a new players.
Wants heavy performance and roleplaying in a game with no mechanics for it and has mechanics that conflict with the setting.
Wants optimized characters, but forces players to fill out all roles, which is not optimal in 4E. Heck, it's not even optimal in 3.5E or Pathfinder 1E.
Wants players to easily remember their abilities, but doesn't let them use tools to easily reference and choose powers.
Wants roleplaying, but tells players how *their* characters are supposed to act and sound. Maybe the dragonborn has a beautiful soft voice?
The DM:” They need to learn how to play D&D the **Right way**”
My Brain: 🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨
STOP! This is the RPG police!
♂️The right way♂️
Kirrim Kerman DM Dictators are never good I try not to be a dictator too much when I DM but I do ask to keep at least character classes by official books. No unearthed arcana. Magic weapons and other things I’m more ok with it’s just that character races and classes get really wild sometimes
@@Crystal_Dylan The base book Ranger is garbage, though. Most tables I've played at let you use the UA version.
@@Crystal_Dylan I'm gearing up for a new game and while I don't want to seem pushy about the characters people are making, so far the group is 3 fighters, and one Cleric/Wizard/Bard... (this is 2E AD&D) It bodes not well unless I can get my nephew to play and he will happily play a Rogue type other than Bard.
What DM's want: Lord of the Rings
What the gane ends up being: Monty Python and the Holy Grail
Nah that’s disrespectful towards Monty python. He got lord of the red flags
@@nerdypie1236 This game, yes, but any other DM wants Lord of the Rings, and gets Monty Python.
I felt that on a spiritual level.
Hey, there's nothing wrong with a Monty Python esque game if you have fun. That's what you're there for!
It's Always Sunny in The Forgotten Realms
Meanwhile my group is like:
“Bring a barbarian.”
“Okay, why?”
“We’re making an all barbarian party.”
Me: Shows up with my Bard.
EVERYONE: *ANGY*
ME: Reveals it's a Bard-barian.
EVERYONE: *KALM*
oh, like THIS classic group?
ruclips.net/video/nHhpIqSl0NU/видео.html
@@merchantziro4285 so a pathfinder Skald?
@@merchantziro4285 *reaches over**grabs idea* yoink. this is mine now.
I was gonna like this comment but it's at 69.
Ben: "You guys play dnd ?"
NewPlayers: " *What is DnD ?*
My Anxiety has reached new levels
The red flags aren't just red, they're crimson.
And on fire.
@@Roggor and in blood
@@Archangel.Azrael and damaged
@@cosmicgenesis1581 and has a few skulls
@@Archangel.Azrael which are also bloodied and burning.
DM: "D&D isn't just role-playing, its acting! the numbers don't really matter."
Also DM: "STRICT BUILDS ONLY. MIN-MAX OR GO HOME!"
At a certain point of controlling the builds, it gets to where it's *impossible* to justify *not* using pregens. Print them and the abilities out. Once a player knows what they're doing, *then* they should be making their characters.
My first "tutorial" game was mess because I tried to teach people both how to make characters *and* how to play. Sure, the *essential* rules can be boiled down to a sheet of paper, but just having a rules summary doesn't give people the confidence they need to implement them, especially as they stress out over "did I make this character right?"
@@InfernosReaper my first session was a bit like this too but the gm was a lot more laid back. I felt really overwhelmed with all the options, and abilities. The party I was playing with were also ruining the game to annoy my friend. The only person I knew there.
We then had a second session with a different dm. He was more rigid about the right way to play and wanted us to role play. It was going fine at first, then we had a literal party crasher who decided, after not being invited to a game we set up to avoid people like that, that they were going to ruin the campaign and try to tpk everyone but themselves. (Using ambiguous pronouns because I'm not into trashing people). Then they started role playing as a one dimensional there words, "retard". In a party where 3 people are actually autistic. When I brought this up to the dm how uncool that is, he said he didn't care. (You can't have a reality bending sword that changes all your rolls to nat 20's at level 3, so I broke it, you were being dicks in and out of Character.)
I like my new group better, they are also giant jerks (in game) but it IS an evil campaign and out of rp are all really cool people. And our party stooge isn't pretending to have a mental disability, but actually playing the fool and building up to shenanigans instead of just tpking by being a buffoon. He also did get us out of a pretty bad jam. Granted he caused it, but where a bad player fool would of tried to ruin the game, he actually got us out alive to save his own skin. In the most village idiot way possible. Starting a turf war with the bbeg.
and that's where I say Bullshit. It's not acting. It's roleplaying. aka. playing a role. do you 'act' a bit doing so ?sure.
@@kinagrill The difference is roleplay is improv and acting is reading a script. Its the reason why watching the critical role podcast is 10x better than LOVM. It loses its charm when the entire show follows a script and everything is happening in real time.
DM: "I want to play seriously"
Also DM: Invites a pair of total newbies to not just D&D, but TTRPGs in general
DM again: And doesn't give them pre-gens.
honestly pre gens are great for new players wtf was this guy thinking.
@@TheDonorak I kind of understand since for me character creation is the most fun part of TTRPGs. I never used a pregen character, even in my first games. But if you want to NOT spend 5 gazillion hours boring a newbie, pregens are better than doing paperwork and maths.
I want to play seriously as a player but found a group of friends that are newbies. It's painful to play most times
Ttrpg? Tactical turn role playing game?
@@KillerofGods TableTop RPG
When the DM said to the Dragonborn fighter “you should try using a voice, think deep and rough” I literally facepalmed. Those players are never going to play DnD again!
I think suggesting people try voices for their characters is okay. But I try to do it in a 'Wouldn't it be fun if you gave him a russian accent?' way. Giving advice without being overbearing is a juggling act.
Meris yeah that’s fine but the context is this is a woman who barely understands English and the DM is asking her to change her voice for a language she barely understands. I’m sure she is doing her best just to stay coherent in her sentences
@@someignorance
Yeeeeep, this guy really should have explained what D&D is before inviting them so they know if they'd even like it.
@Isaac that's because everything above 3.5 is just drugs
@@meris8486 Not everyone can do voices in the first place, especially someone who has English as a Second Language. Basically, the DM was so caught up in his vision that he was oblivious to the situation around him.
The silly thing is that if the DM had used pre-gens, he could've hit all his requirements with minimal hassle.
- Everyone picks a role,
- select from these DM-approved pre-gens appropriate for your selected role,
- copy down the info onto a character sheet (so that you literally go through every thing on the sheet and have read it at least once).
20 minutes and ready to start playing instead of a 4 hour slog through rules and being railroaded in your choices (with similar level of DM control). Decent chance the campaign would actually have survived that way.
Especially with *how. Much. READING.* is involved in 4E.
@@DawnfireGalinndan Sad how in 3/3.5 and 5th, you can create a new character is about an hour tops, and 4th was marathon datasheet entry even when being railroaded.
@@nooneofimportance2110 this is entirely because dnd4 was designed from the ground up to be used with the online tools, which they promptly swept under a rug when the release was bungled
@@QuartzChrysalis Well, it doesn't help that it was based on WoW, and not table top WoW either.
This is exactly the route I take with new players, particularly when I'm running a one-shot. Character creation takes a long time and people might not necessarily know what options *actually* give them the character they want, and sometimes they might take a little while to get used to fantasy tropes. You can't expect people who don't even know the rules to understand the system you're running as well as you do.
"Your going to make characters by hand!" That doesn't sound so bad, I would generally agree that that's a fun way to get new players to engag....
"In 4e." Oh.... Oh no
At the time, I hadn't read The Spawn of Fashan... and assumed it HAD to be worse than 4e
Turns out... it really really wasn't
Which has me wondering... if there were online tools for The Spawn of Fashan--would that game be as playable as 4e?
:::::Laughs in Palladium:::::
5e you can bust out a level 3 character in 20 minutes, i havent played fourth but it sounds like a task
Tbf making characters in any of the ttrpgs by hand could be a chore. The problem is in this story there were 2 new players, one of which could hardly understand english, a dm who was being overly "helpful", and it sounded like the dm refused to let the veteran players help out the new people. I've had character creations that would have taken 20-30 minutes for veteran players (D&D 3.5) take over 2 hours, because the players don't know how to create a character and/or they don't have a phb.
Raistlarn Veteran players in a newbie group are so fucking important when getting into dnd. Without my trusty guide everything would have taken about 10 times longer
DM be like: "These fights are taking too long. Am I making the encounters too difficult and/or complex? No, it must be the players who are playing sub-optimally."
It’s the children who are wrong!
Or just using a bad system
@Cajus Lehmann Well, I honestly can't, because he's really not trying to improve the game so much as trying to live up to an unrealistic illusion of what the game's supposed to be like and not paying any attention to the wants or needs of his players.
He at no point does any introspection, which shows he really doesn't care about improving his game so much trying to feed his ego.
@Cajus Lehmann To be fair, the later Monster Manuals really helped a lot, toning down the HP and boosting the damage of enemies. The Versatility feats were also really important, since monster defense stats scaled slightly faster than character attack stats. Combat around the time of the Essentials stuff was surprisingly quick and brutal, it's just a shame that by that point the damage to 4e's reputation had been done.
@Cajus Lehmann But he didn't attempt to improve his games. He grabbed two fresh off the street characters and exposed them to some of the worst that D&D hoverDMing can be and probably scared them from it ever since. He actively shut that shit down.
If he wants to improve his games improve his games, don't decide to use new players as lab rats.
DM: "We're making characters...by hand"
Me: Hmm...
Puffin: It's DnD 4e btw
Me: HMM????
Even 5e its a boring slog especially the first time, imagine 4e
@@Logan-zp8bi It was certainly not newbie-friendly doing it by hand. It was like doing a level 1 wizard or cleric in other editions. You gotta write all those spells down.
But the online character builder absolutely made things so, so, so much easier. That thing was amazing and definitely was newbie-friendly.
I started in World of Darkness. A few dots filled in on one (maybe two for Werewolf) page(s). Straight forward simple combat. I fell in love with ttrpgs that way. I hate playing "Excel Spreadsheet: the Game"
"Character creation's not much fun when you're a new player."
> me, who has never played a session but has fun making characters with the rulebooks
Oh, uh, yeah, uh, totally. **sweating**
Heh... that was totally me too for years. My uncle gave me his old 1st edition books when I was very young. I had no one to play with, but I loved making characters and imaging what it would be like. As I got older, even though I still had no one else to play with, I would occasionally buy some of the then current 2nd edition books. It wasn't until 3rd edition that I finally met a group to play with.
Those glory days are behind me now, but I still have all my old books and I still enjoy pulling them out every now and again to make characters.
LOVE making characters
You're an exception mate, but I'm in the same boat as you.
If you think character creation is fun, just wait til you actually get to play!
@@ianh1504
I can only imagine.
The "other people" aspect of it makes me quite nervous and stressed, so I don't know how compatible I would be with the whole thing.
It still kind of sounds like fun, but I dunno, realistically speaking, if I would ever play D&D or the likes.
I guess I'm just fine with reading rulebooks and watching various tabletop-tubers.
I dunno...
DM: "hey guys, you wanna come over play a game, it's gonna be fun!"
*proceeds to make everyone do the equivalent of filling out their tax returns for 4 hours*
fun...so much fun
The 3.5 box i got in the 7th grade came with pre made characters to help you get the idea of the game
@@punklover99 same with the 5th edition starter set, made it pretty easy for me and my friends to get into dnd, as none of us had any experience with it beforehand.
I enjoyed character making sessions
That actually made me laugh out loud. GG. You won.
"They need to play D&D, the RIGHT way."
It's all downhill here, folks.
That would've been my cue to exit the stage, gods damnit. xD
Rarely does anything good follow such lines. Moreover, if there are new players and you want the "roles" to be filled, ya do prefab, especially if digital character creation tools are to be ignored anyway.
That's pretty much *any* tabletop RPG at that point.
The right way is when you do something that the books didn't prepare for, but which is in character, like "I'd like to unionise the guards" or "I want to inject that guy with air" or "this time I'll make a blind wizard."
Railroading new players is always an awful choice. It's doing pregenerated characters, but makes them feel like they have a choice that they are always wrong about.
My first DnD game ended in us all dying 10 minutes in because of me misunderstanding the DM and in hindsight he was trying to railroad a bit while I was testing the "I can do anything I want and just see what happens" waters.
So basically, he described the street below, casually mentioned a dog-like creature (no mention of it being violent or dangerous) then panned over to two player characters and said it looked like they were fighting. I wasn't sure what I should do about a pvp situation so I just sit back and observe. The DM and other players are growing tired of me stalling by saying my character who just woke up is likely "dang noisy neighbors" and goes back to sleep. DM is still not giving any new info just "they continue to fight" and asking me what I'll do so I decide to get out of bed and attack one player's character, since I had only just met the player that day and as such didn't know him well enough to take his side, and things escalate from there.
Turns out the DM meant they were fighting the dog-like creature together (despite no rolls or anything being done the way I expected they woukd in such a situation) and so the party decides to deal with me before the beast rather than let me take it back with the corrected understanding of what the DM meant by his previous narration. As they fight me, more mobs show up and kill the party. The story ends there and I was never invited over again. :'(
@@TheMightyBattleSquid that's rough. A bad DM can really ruin the whole experience. He obviously wasn't narrating very well and not giving you the information that you needed to really be part of the situation.
It could have been something as simple as, "You see two people fighting against a large dog like creature. The creature seems to be feral and very aggressive."
That would be enough to help you understand what is happening, what is expected from you, and introduce you to the party.
My first D&D session wasn't much better. They told me to make whatever I wanted, so I made a LG Monk. What they neglected to mention was they were doing an evil campaign and the rest of the group made evil characters. I lasted about 15 minutes until they decided that I needed to die.
@@TheMightyBattleSquid dm miscommunication is a bad problem
@@seanpchristy it is, but so are players who don't feel like doing anything; Mr_Dragon's situation is obviously a different circumstance, but if ever had a player who just constantly said "I just roll over and go back to bed" at a plot hook i'd find a way to set the inn on fire; you're Adventurers, make a character who ACTUALLY want's to be there and ADVENTURE or play something else; it's not being mean, it's being realistic; i highly doubt the rest of the table wants to wait around while you decide if you actually want to play or not.
@@TheMightyBattleSquid To be frank, not being invited ever again to that table sounds like a blessing in disguise. Someone who can't even communicate his ideas is even worse than a DM trying to railroad, I mean, at least someone who knows how to narrate will make it clear that he just wants actors in his school play. That DM was like one of those folks who try to tell you something with stupid hand signs only they know what they mean, and get upset when you don't understand them.
God, when the DM started "advising" the party like they were actors and he was the director, that's where I was the angriest.
Obviously what you want to do to get shy, inexperienced, non-native speaking players to feel confident in your game and have them coming back is to convince them that D&D _DEMANDS_ acting out and playing a dramatic personality with fluent and fitting dialog at all times. Specially characters they didn't even come up with or understand.
DnD isn't a storytelling game. You can play every bit of dnd without a story.
Players aren't actors, either.
@@MCXL1140 DnD is 100% a storytelling game. Unless you're just doing an Adventurer's League-style dungeon crawl for every single session, there is going to be a story told between the DM's situations and the player's actions. However, you are right that players are not actors. They're just regular people who sometimes want to pretend to be a dwarf and have fun with their friends, and that's okay.
Oh man, that was painful to hear. I felt ashamed.
I mean, if this was so embarrassing to us who were not even there, can you imagine how awkward the situation?
"The girlfriend isn't a Native English speaker."
I think I physically "*OOOFED*" at that, and I definitely felt the need to apologize to her for all the shit she went through even more despite not even being there.
A friend of mine did a Pathfinder (think D&D 3.7) game where all the players were monsters instead of normal PCs. He had...
A Spanish guy with good English playing a troll
Another American playing a spriggan (fey creature that can turn big)
And a Chinese gal with decent English, who'd never played D&D/Pathfinder, playing an OOZE WIZARD.
Much of the game, I'm told, was explaining things to the Chinese gal, who kept forgetting she had magic spells.
God, same, suddenly _I_ wanted to find this woman and apologize to her
It really sucks, cuz it almost feels like was using her as a pet.
He didn't invite them there to test the waters and see if they like Dungeons and dragons, he tricked them into coming because he doesn't have anyone else to play D&D with.
It was about the game more than it was about the people
@@SeanLaMontagne It wasn't even about the game, it was about the DM. All the people were there so he could have HIS fun of watching people make characters the "right" way. Didn't matter that they weren't having fun at all, or that he'd lied/tricked everyone there... it was all about him and "ordering" players to be "correct".
@@Aeroldoth3 yeah honestly the story just sounds like an unhealthy person trying to cope with whatever was going on with their DND group before this event.
If a DM is going to do that, he should have just pre-generated characters and let people choose which one they wanted to play. I've played a game like that before and had fun.
That's how I got introduced to the genre! You still get to add your own flair but it's nice to have a character that the DM kinda knows how they work mechanically. It's like a set of training wheels to get you used to role-playing.
I agree. Pre-generated characters are not necessarily a bad thing, especially for a brand new player. Yeah, it takes away some of the choice, but you still get to decide exactly how to play your character and how the story plays out. They're a tool that allows you to skip the sticky numbers and rifling through skills and get to the meat of the game. Once a player is sucked in with the actual role-playing, combat, etc, they can later take a crack at character creation, with the knowledge now that the game is really fun and this is important setup for that.
I’m DMing for the first time right now and I got a group of friends who had never played before to join up and play over video calls. I wanted them to make their own characters for the actual campaign but I did a practice session first where I gave them all a nameless 1st level character (with 10th level health so they don’t die immediately) to fight in a gladiator situation and get some experience with how to play and basic role play. Even without any previous experience or any much background we all had a great time and already have a couple great role play moments. Plus one of the PCs is basically gonna play the wizard they played in game but skinned with their own stuff. Highly recommend pre-gen for new characters to at least get the hang of it a bit!
You're forgetting the strange, overwhelming ego dnd players sometimes have
I mean hell. That's how I started the Call of Cthulhu genre, and it was hilarious how we all played our characters
"this is all about storytelling. you can ignore the numbers" ... erm, so why did you have us fill in datasheets for four hours, mate?
"I don't want pregens" proceeds to railroad players into making exactly the characters he wants them to play...
Well that’s the joke
Cause combat exists, You can’t just be like “I hit the thing and it does a kill and it is dead now ok.” Unless you wanna, but most don’t. I get what you mean tho
@@Ajc-ni3xn It takes a skilled GM with an innate/learned understanding of character balance and narrative flow, and experienced players who trust them; but, having been lucky enough to have had that, I can honestly say that alot of the best campaigns and sessions I've ever been in were systemless and diceless. The only rule was "GM rules."
Just play city of mist at that point
"The other new player had to bail at the last minute" Damn he's a natural
maxed out wisdom and nat 20 on an insight check
"Four players, four roles. Oh... No... I know there this is going."
Where are we going and why are we in this handbasket?
*surrounded by fire and brimstone*
No clue, but I hope it’s nice.
Why does this river stink and where are our paddles?
The DM: “They need to learn how to play D&D ‘the right way’.”
Me: *hands DM character sheet and grabs DM screen* “Now then, we can do this the right way.”
You forgot your wizard hat.
NIcaK777 Alex bold of you to assume I wasn’t wearing it already
@@codyriddle1424 *conspiracy music plays*
@@codyriddle1424 *CONSPIRACY MUSIC PLAYS INTENSELY*
Nice
2:49 Puffin: "You dont watch a movie where you have the characters debating for an hour before anything happening"
Quentin Tarentino: "Hold my beer"
For real though
Suddenly “12 Angry Men”
"Fights took too long"
Well then have EVERYONE make glass cannon dps builds.
This encounter is ending in 4 rounds boys, because 5th round is a tpk.
And reduce the Hp of the enemies. Makes the game faster.
Ah, I see you met our party of only evocation wizards.
@@danielhughes6556 a group of evocation wizards with the ad
"You want it done fast? Call us. If it takes more than a minute you dont need to pay"
@@danielhughes6556 Throw a bard into the mix, name him Tchaikovsky, and make every battle a D&D reimagining of the 1812 Overture
@@lukakatunaricskaro I'm stealing this idea
Lest see:
- Doesnt tell new people what their playing or what the game is before the session.
- Tells people they have to pick a Role (one being called "The Leader") and cant have multiples of same role.
- Has them do Character creation on the Session... because its the "RIGHT" Way... to New Players, instead of letting them use Shortcuts to skip the anoying Creation OR not let them use PreGens.
- Making Players MINMAX instead of picking soemthing they might have fun with.
All of this for over 4 hours. I legitmly feel bad for Ben because his DM tried to make the players into fucking POWERGAMERS while trying to promote Roleplaying and Storytelling.
(Long but worth it) I agree he had it bad but think about this;
The DM was not upfront about well most anything because he in many ways seemed to blame those he was playing with. So:
Session Zero is a good thing - telling them what to do as they make PCs is not
Having one person in role of “Leader” (in 4e is more akin to “Support” in 3e and 5e) but demanding one role each is not going to improve things
Min/Max does not mean you can’t rp, have fun or anything else - some people have horrible luck and min/max to mitigate that. It is always the player.
Ignoring the players being upset or border and not making allowances for things like language barriers is always bad.
But none of this was the real big problem-
The problems the DM saw were not real - the math was. 4e had long fights because it really was built for systems like Roll20 on line where a program can handle the rules and the player just basically makes easy choices. So everything the DM did only made his game worst and even worst because of his chasing something that did not exists .
I like making characters on session zero
I feel like this DM doesn't want to DM a game but rather wants to write a novel
XOXheartAmy Yep. Dude, you don’t want DnD, you want the local theatre company down the road.
When the DM said don't worry about the stats or numbers after that trainwreck of a character creation session, I had to pause from bullshit overload.
"I prefer not to use the term 'Roleplaying'. It's a bit misleading. Really it's 'Acting'!"
Sounds like that guy took notes from EA and their "surprise mechanics"
reminds me of a silly quote:
a player who only cares about the mechanics and not the story is a "ROLL player".
@@ericb3157 ironic
It's not role playing, it's acting. Acting as in PLAYING a ROLE!?!?!?
see, when i describe d&d as acting, its to newer players that are still thinking about trying it so they show up saying they just came to play "a game"
DM: "I want to run a more efficient game."
D&D 4e "Sorry we don't do that here."
Oh it can be, but character generation with people unfamiliar with a game is NEVER efficient.
D&D 4e is the MOST efficient game. People just run it the wrong way because they're used to running D&D a specific way. Like take the example in the video, in what fucking world are you fighting goblins for 8 hours and it's not an endless horde. 4e has minions for that, enemies that fall over in one hit because they're goblins.
@@DONTworryIgotTHIS
It's because players have options to mull over now, so they enter "decision paralysis" of a sort. The thing is, that stuff stops the more you play and the more comfortable you get. I've never had a combat (even "boss monster" encounter) stretch out longer than an hour.
(The hour one was an outlier because... dragon. Dragons shouldn't EVER be just bags of health to shake like a loot pinata.)
It does really count for coordination between players and comfort with the game. These things are not immediate and take time to foster, and are a problem to buy-in with every game.
D&D 4e, looking at the physical board: Yeah, not gonna happen
@@DONTworryIgotTHIS 4e is in no way the most efficient game. Combat is slogged with the entire system being built around constant and arbitrary conditions and situational actions/abilities and roleplaying itself being largely pushed to the side for the aforementioned godawful combat system they insisted on using.
You're no longer playing a game, you're playing homework mixed with a flow chart of "If yes then..." choices and battle maps that every single player is forced to keep track of so as to do their math correctly.
"I had an old Fourth Edition game" This is gonna be good
namey mcnameface lol
Forth Edition is not old
@@leebennett1821 It is for Puffin because that's when he started and it's one reason he's so bad at playing DnD at a normal table.
@@ForeverLaxx I started on First edition when i was 16 that was 35 years ago
@@leebennett1821 AD&D was my introduction back in highschool, circa 2002.
When a DM tells me how to voice my character, I start to consider smacking someone in the face to relieve stress.
I hear ya there my friend.
“I don’t like the term ‘role-playing’”
Literally forces people to play roles.
Worse, forcing people to "perform".
That's the game though, your playing a role. A role you should choose and actively want to explore on your own will. RPGs give you a safe place to engage these characters and roles that expand on your own persona.
Yes it’s a role playing game. But this dm was forcing them to play specific roles they have no interest in
@@seanpchristy you pick your own role and character. And he forced people to play certain roles although he said he doesn’t like the term “role-playing” as it assigns characters one way to act and play. Hmmmmmmmmmmm.
Role-forcing?
"Don't bring your own characters, I'll be making your characters"
"Now here are some blank character sheets and fill them out to my exact specifications "
I thought he said “cause he wanted us to make them from scratch,” not “I’ll make them”
that what i would call perverse personnality
Yeah, he said make them at session 0
"And I never saw them again"
At least the story has a happy ending. They saved themselves from an awful DM.
By likely never playing D&D again :(
"You dont watch a movie to see people debate for 1 hour"
Someone's never watched 12 Angry Men!
That's not just about debating. But also exploring who those people in the room are and why they think the way that they do about the trial and the defendant.
That was a decent movie actually
Amazing movie.
I thoroughly enjoyed that movie
I love that movie
Bro I’m halfway through and this is already so painful
This is 100% what I was thinking
“The dragonborn fighter is... big?”
*The plot of Tall Girl has entered the chat.*
This DM: Spends 4 hours on creation
Also this DM: "it's not about the numbers"
DM: You are actors...
My eyes roll so hard they are literal slot machines.
It's not completely wrong. I just don't get what he thought the big difference between someone playing a role and an actor is supposed to be.
However, I would try to make the new players less anxious by comparing it to play-acting, which everyone has done when they were little or story-telling with certain rules (like: as a player you only ever get to play your character and your character can't just do everything).
@@JuMiKu It's because actors and roleplayers are fundamentally different things, and they result in wildly different expectations and skills. Roleplayers aren't using a script or queues or even any real memorization, they're almost exclusively going off of improv and generalist character notes. Actors and roleplayers can be loosely defined as using "acting" but the styles they use are so radically different that it's pointless to compare them like that because there's no overlap besides general "acting", even improv groups fall under the skillset and habits of an actor rather than a roleplayer.
So did you get your self a jackpot?
Its probably better to compare roleplayers to improv actors, instead of straight actors.
@@Draconicdisciple what if they are crooked? Or have a slight lean?
Every time I see "the most awkward d&d game" in a title, I click on it deathly afraid that a specific game I ran online that failed horribly just happened to be this specific game. It never is, but it is always in the back of my mind
DM: "I don't want to use PreGens"
Also DM: "You MUST pick these options"
"you're a fighter so your primary stats are strength and constitution"
"you're a fighter so you can play a human, dwarf, or dragonborn
this killed me, railroading to the extreme
and what's worse is those players probably never played D&D again!
@@omnical6135 so they just wasted 10 hours
@@kkTeaz unfortunately yea. Just a DM that's really, really bad with new players.
Sometimes the dm is so bad that everything is a preset
@@zynstein8059 So much for the All Stars DnD when the DM brings newbies. That DM is full of contraditions for his dreamed Campaing.
Other DMs: And that's how bad my campaign went!
Ben: Hold my dice...
This DM wants to be a writer. He’s mixed up his desire to write good fiction with his desire to lead a fun game night. I feel like this is a mistake people make a lot because RPGs involve a ton of creativity and often spark someone’s desire to creat a greater story.
Well "writer" in the same way Brian Griffin considers himself a writer.In fact he even says some Brian Griffin type shit when he says "ya know dnd isn't about roleplaying as much as it is about acting"
"Writer" DMs can be one of the best types of DMs, but ONLY when they give the players the agency to write part of the story for them, with their character actions. They're the main heroes after all. There can't be a good story if main heroes are boring.
"No Mixed Matched Race Classes."
Me: *Cries in Kobold Wizard*
_slays in goblin barbarian_
*joins you in Duergar Wizard (necromancer)*
*LAUGHS MANIACALLY IN STUPIDLY MIN-MAXED KOBOLD NECROMANCER*
@Victor Kordun *laughs in smart as fuck orc paladin
This comment made my day mate
No mismatched class races?
*laughs in 500 lb 6'4 tortle monk*
A'tuin Oogway, of the order of the
Ancient Dragon Turtle, says otherwise.
Tortle is the only way to have a "viable" str monk so it's not even mismatched.
@@HellecticMojo very true! I meant more in the "ginormous extremely slow creature that can somehow move at mach speed, has super sharp reflexes, darts about gracefully, and falls light as a feather" kind of way.
I've got a Loxodon Monk. He can carry more than he weighs right from the start.
@@valentinmitterbauer4196 carrying capacity isn't the real issue with str based monks. It's the AC. Tortles get a shell that makes up a lot. Monk is a terrible class wotc ruined from playtests
Get three more and a Ratfolk master and I think you might be onto something
"I want to have an epic campaign. I also want to recruit a party of people, half of whom have no idea what game they're playing. Also, I don't want to use pre-gens - they need to learn the RIGHT way to play. ALSO, I want to waste everyone else's time by spending the first several hours of the campaign explaining the rules to the newbies so they can create the 'perfect' party.
You know, so we can cut to the chase and skip all of that boring role-playing crap. It's gonna be GREAT!"
I really do wish that DM the best of luck in someday pulling his head out of his own ass.
"What is D&D?"
Well, my friends! Dungeons and Dragons is a game of imagination, usually set in a fantasy universe where you get to play as a character of your own design! Magic, weapons, armor, monsters! However, fortunately, it is mostly a bunch of friends hanging out. There's combat, which plays like a board game, and then there's travel and towns, where the roleplaying happens. That's when you can act like an idiot and pretend to be a three hundred year old wizard yelling at goblins to get off his lawn. There's also usually pizza and assorted snacks. It's hilarious, chaotic, and it gets you out of the damn house for a few hours. Or you can be a huge, poindexter caliber dork and have ten hour sessions napping in shifts like I did in college, but that's on you.
"That sounds kind of stupid."
It is!
gg
I miss the getting together part with snacks and just dumb fun, stupid covid ):
@@Danirubio780 I now make snacks for myself and describe them to my friend who screams in jealousy at me every time 😂
I'll be honest, I didn't read the huge paragraph, I just skipped to the punchline
Doing that did not take away from the intended reaction, I think.
@@Danirubio780 I'm working on getting TTS to work for it, mediocre success, hardware issues with my computer really.
I know, 7 months late, and Covid is 'over' (family is still immunally weak, so not much change for me personally), but still, virtual isn't terrible
This is like the DM I fear becoming whenever I play. My condolences cap'n, I too knew where this was going as soon as I heard "we need to spread over the four roles."
Yeah, I think this is a hard lesson to learn when you're in the moment, but it is the most essential one to understand.
I watched this as a player whos knows whats going on
*and dear GOD*
Yeah same.
See when I find a game I’m interested in, dnd for example.
I take a lot of time to study and learn it, read the rules and lore, etc
Aside from other games, dnd took a while for it to turn from knowing ancient lore to just common sense how to get set up.
So when somebody asks me how to play dnd, I just say.
How much dedication and time do you want to put in to this? that’s my answer
@@TheCart54321 Ya don't really have to go *that* far with it. Hell, with some games, you can actually sum the rules up to a few pages, at least of the stuff *all players* need to worry about. Everything else can be learned as needed or on a case-by-case basis. That's how I did it. Then I went from under-confident and barely knowing the rules to homebrewing terrible stuff to homebreweing decent stuff
I watched as a person who has played all of a single session zero, and has PDFs of all the books provided by the DM for character creation.
This made me ask "Why is 'I read the wrong stat block for the boss encounter... twice.' Ben the best DnD player in his area?"
Everyone! We have to find those two! Not to tell them that D&D is better then what they experienced, but to let Puffin tell them how sorry he is! This is your mission now! We must share this video to everyone in the hopes they see it and know the pain Puffin has been feeling all these years!
Because that’s what heroes do
I accept
Mission Impossible time
"They need to learn how to play the _right way_."
RED FLAAAAG
Sounds like the DM wanted to direct a movie, not let the players play a game.
Yeah, if you want to play a D&D game by yourself, just write a book. It's a lot faster and much less frustrating.
@@allenholloway5109 Or play Sryth.com (shameless plug)
@@meganb.2249 let me open it in a new tab to check it out later :)
@@meganb.2249 Cooo, I'm gonna check that
"Really it's acting"
No. Stop. Do not phrase RPing like that. That's how you scare people
I'd respectfully disagree
Sometimes the acting part actually entices people to get into the game the most. I'm currently dming for a group of almost exclusively new players so I dialed back the numbers in the first few sessions and gradually turned it up. Meanwhile they really enjoyed the roleplaying part, some overacted, some just did what they'd do normally but I think telling them that a big part of the game is acting really showed them what to expect and we're still meeting and having fun with the game. Not every newb is scared of acting
Improvised collaborative story telling is what I call it.
@@authenticbitterleben7434 I think its cringe so I dislike being forced into it.
@@authenticbitterleben7434 but roleplaying does not mean you have to act or do a voice?
@@XraynPR sure it doesn't mean to but you sure can act in RP. I described it as such and it was received positive. That was what my story was about
DM: directs players into playing classes as optimally as possible
Also DM: "It's not about the numbers, it's about the role-playing"
There is probably a "best" way to play a game, but seriously, let people play how they want.
The BEST way to play a game is the way that everyone simultaneously has high fun fractions, and low dissatisfaction fractions.
Wanting to direct new players in a short game isn't such a bad idea I think. But having them go through the process of creating the intended characters is really stupid. The hardest part of many games (not only role play games) is to get the people *interested* in the game. If you make them go through the most gruesome part of it in the first session, they sure won't ever come back.
If you think there's a best way to play DnD, you're playing it wrong.
@@tuesdaynext7370 Not saying there is a best way to play it, but it's not necessary a bad thing to want to guide new players.
Edit: just re-read previous answers and realized Tuesday Next's answer wasn't about my message ^^'
There is no _single_ best way to play the game, but rather a "best way" for the game group in question. What is common to every potential best way, though, is that the participants are having fun and want to come back for more sessions.
‘Because they need to learn to play DnD THE RIGHT WAY’
Ah, one of those people
I mean, there are just as many stories of people pushing narrative low-combat feelsy-RP as "the Right Way(tm)" as there are minmax THAC0bros ruining the game for feelsy types. D&D is a _system,_ your _game_ should be the right one for you. (I would also suggest you pick a system that fits your style, of which there are many and varied.)
pondrthis1 Yep, that is also true.
"I dont like calling it roleplay, it is acting"
Acting, that thing you do when you play a role....
Thanks thesaurus!
As the CEO of thesaurus I’m blithesome at your harnessing of our tome. Have a fantabulous day!
1:37
*Side-glances Abserd*
Oh really, now?
Would you be capable of keeping track of so many class abilities, hm?
@@ZeroCanalX Most complicated multi-class I've *attempted* to keep track of was split 3-ways (Warlock, Sorc, Paladin).
Abserd? No way, you need to already be insane to keep track of that.
Worst game I have ever played: It was online and started out with a really cool concept. All the players were sisters (there was a guy who was going to join us later and be our cousin but it never got that far). I joined a session late but easily slotted myself into the family as twin to the youngest sibling. Us players set up a chat thread and talked about relationships with each other and some memorable moments from our past with each other. I wrote it down in a document and had the players approve it before sending it our DM.
Our DM ignored it. He was playing ADnD, I think? I don't have much experience with the older systems. But he didn't let us make our own character sheets. He'd tell us what to roll, add the modifiers himself, and tell us if we succeeded. It was different but not what really bothered me about the session. What happened was he starts the game off with an uncle we never knew before informing us our dad is dead and our mom has been kidnapped. The uncle was our dad's brother and the two had had a falling out almost two decades ago, before the first daughter was born, but recently, they had started to patch things up. The uncle's also a lord in another town, so he scoops us all up to his mansion and tells us to get jobs (our character classes). My character's the unruly wild child, so I'm fighting every step of the way. We don't know who this stranger is. Do we really trust him when he says that he sent adventurers out after our mom? If it wasn't for my sisters, I would have most likely ran away and try to find our mom. So, we chose our classes/jobs and then the DM skips a whole five years.
FIVE. YEARS. I know it was the DM trying to get us to a certain level that would make us adventure worthy but so much could change in five years! What if one of us decided we didn't want to be that class anymore? Hell, the oldest daughter was of marrying age and could have found her love and had a kid or two in that time! And then he had the gall to say we were all living in different apartments. Didn't ASK us this very important character choice. My twin and I had a side chat and we agreed that we would have gotten a place together had we the choice.
But the DM didn't care about any of that. He just kept pushing us with the questions, "What do you do now?" "What class are you going to pick?" and I'm like, slow down, I'm grieving over my parents, do you mind? It baffles me. When he finally got us going along on the adventure proper, he treated us like we were just any old adventuring partying, not a group of sisters with a complex and deep past that comes from five siblings and the lost of parents. I don't know why he even bothered with the pre-adventure stuff. He could have just narrated to us in broad strokes and let us fill in the details in our mind and then start us off at getting the letter from another lord, asking for us to visit. But the DM had a certain story to tell and he was going to tell it, even if it meant taking agency away from the players.
After the session, we talked in the players only thread and were not pleased with his DM'ing style. Maybe if he had been more upfront about the type of game he wanted to play? Maybe if he had slowed down and let us play our characters. We were all for going in the direction he was leading us but we would have liked to figure out how they would have gotten there. There wasn't a second session after that.
Silver lining, though: I totally stole his idea and am now DM'ing my own group and we're having a blast figuring out how the adventuring party dynamics change when you can bring up embarrassing things the bard did when she was a preteen and the rogue and barbarian have arguments about who Mom loves best.
"Ok. You got your characters all in a nice set up? Well, guess what? Everyone's dead! You're hauled away to learn to fight. What do you want to learn first? Well, hope you picked well. FUCKING TIME SKIP! Go out and find the big bad guys, you're a regular party now."
Later: "Why isn't anyone showing up to session 2? 😰"
I... can't say I blame all that on the DM. Your expectations are off if you expect deep family bonding in a game where your character sheet says nothing except how good you are at smacking stuff with other (possibly magical) stuff.
If you were playing a White Wolf game, or an indie game, or... I dunno, a game with more than one social stat... I could see your expectation of sleepover talk and truth or dare when you hear "sisterhood." But in D&D? You've been watching too much Critical Role.
*Not knocking CR, I've watched plenty of it, but it's atypical. It's about as un-D&D-like as a campaign could get. If anything, I'm _promoting_ other game systems, of which there are many fun ones!
@@pondrthis1 ...I cannot stress enough how frustrating it is to read this. Dungeons and Dragons is a...roleplaying game. You roleplay in it. You wanted them to expect not roleplaying in a roleplaying game group. It's unrealistic to expect a plot that's extremely deep and complex, yea, but the way you're wording it sounds like you're bashing them for wanting to do something that's literally on the cover of the modules.
@@pondrthis1 I see where you're coming from and I agree that the DM and the players had different expectations. I will note that I was the only Critical Role fan in that group and as I have been playing DnD for about 15 years before CR came out, so I know that DnD games can be anything from simple dungeon crawls with very little character moments to full on epic war operas with all the character and emotional arcs you can hope for. In my favorite campaign from high school, we had more character scenes than fighting and dungeon crawling.
It just felt like a complete waste of a concept. This was the first time I had ever heard of making an all-family adventuring party. Yeah, once and awhile, you'd get a sibling duo or cousins in a group but not a whole group of siblings going off and adventuring. Why have us all be sisters if to not use that to color the adventure? We weren't looking for whole scenes of character development, but the DM hardly gave us any room to let our character's personalities show. If we took more than five seconds to agree to his plan, he would start repeatedly asking us what are we going to do. If he just wanted us to follow along on his adventure, why not just tell us to make some random characters and get on with it?
Anyway, you're right in that DnD is more geared towards fighting and dungeon crawling, but that's not all it can be and CR is really only atypical in the fact that they are voice actors. But they are hardly the only players, not even the first, who infuse their play with character study and development. I feel like our DM and the players needed more communication but after experience his mode of pushy DM, we really didn't feel the desire to continue the game with him.
@@localinternetclown I respect your opinion and agree that, at least since 5e was received so well among theater types, Wizards has tried to sell D&D as a narrative game. That said, D&D is a "roleplaying game" in the same way most video game RPGs are "roleplaying games:" you play as a character who is not a player avatar, but their own character in the story. The idea of a narrative game _centered_ on story and character development hadn't come about until well into the second generation of RPGs, late in the 1980s, and really blossomed after Vampire the Masquerade came around in 1991.
D&D is ultimately a single-unit, party-based wargame that has finally, in fifth edition, come to support its widely popular narrative minigame. _As a system,_ it is simply not built for roleplaying as we see it today: acting and storytelling. (Contrast with Chronicles of Darkness and Genesys, each of which have social maneuvering chapters as long as their combat chapters!)
_A given game_ of D&D may include everything you claim is at its core, but those things are simply not found between the covers of the Player's Handbook, and therefore cannot be claimed as part of the core game itself.
This is so stressful in every aspect. The story itself and the cutesy manner in which you choose to portray it. Thanks.
"We fight goblins for 8 hours"
_Goblin Slayer would like to join in on your session._
Maybe he was already the DM
my worst dnd games experience was with a bunch that some people took irl hate into the game and were constantly trying to kill one another starting with my character and the dm said to cut it out cause they were just murdering the entire party out of stupidity/boredom
Yeah. I was part of a group where the dm and one of the players were twin brothers, and their own beef between eachother constantly got in the way of the fun
Most of the games I'm in with my group devolve into half the party being overly aggressive, arrogant douchebags who are only interested in making as many people mad as possible while trying to get all the best loot for themselves. We're talking wanton murder and assault simply because their attempt to intimidate a guard failed, or actively trying to sabotage the party directly because "my character is a pirate and that's what he does". Too many players at this table see the game as their own personal experience and the other players are just pawns for their amusement.
Reminds me of the Black Hands in Knights of the Dinner Table.
I don't understand why people in shitty groups that hate each other choose to play dnd together.
@@emissarygw2264For me, it was the only group I had. I've got a new group that's amazing and I left my old one. I think cause it's a relatively niche game, there aren't a lot of people in people's lives who want to play with
"So yeah I'm gonna take you through four hours of paperwork hell and insist that you don't get choices, then reprimand you for not enjoying this and pretend that the stats I just forced you to perfect don't matter to me, and then to top it all off leave off with a little reminder that you're wrong about your characters and what I think of them is the only thing that matters. Come back soon :>"
The second the DM says anything along the lines of "this is not the right way" about something not rules related.
You know the DM is a schmuck.
the way this dm is playing is the ONLY wrong way to play d&d
Always cook your D&D
Raw is just fucking raw.
-Gordon Ramsey
Wow, what a horrid, elitist DM. He only cares about how the game goes HIS way, unable to take criticism or see how awful he is being. If he wants characters to be done a certain way, have pacing be well, and all that, he just needs to write books, not play as a DM.
I figured he was just futilely trying to make 4e functional. It's not crazy to think that if you try doing it the way the books tell you, the game will actually work. Just doesn't apply here.
he was doing it all wrong for sure but man when you hear about 4e combat. like 5e is super easy and simple and has its own problems being a bit too dumb down. but its lke that cus 4e combat was so bad it almost seems intentionally made bad to get more people into roleplaying and preventing fights rather than starting them
@@danielkeys8974 Well yeah there is that, but he's also a smug prick who made a bad idea worse.
@@seth468 I think he had good intentions, just didn't realize what he was doing was a bad way
@@apersonwhomayormaynotexist9868 Which was precisely the problem.
"The characters debating for an hour and then nothing happening" is literally the plot of Reservoir Dogs.
Combat wasn't taking so long because the characters were "suboptimal". It took so long because that's how combat goes in 4ed.
Ben: So you guys ready to play DnD?
Guy: What's DnD?
Me: Oh, this gonna be Good!
I've never played DnD, but I've watched enough stories to know that wasn't a good sign!
And in late 4th edition to boot!
@@MonkeyJedi99 That Too lol
Some DMs want to write a book, not actually manage a d&d campaign
I've actually realized that for me. I am actually pretty railroady in my story telling, and the players seemed fine with it, but I understood that I didn't give them much choice in the game.
I'm trying things out again with part of the new group, part old, we'll see how they go. It's intended to be more choice oriented, but with an overall and goal to sileny move pieces into place for them (its a Star Wars game, tasked with exploration, recruitment, and sabatogue during the Civil War. My theory is to be a bit railroady early on to teach the system and get used to characters with different encounters (fights at medium, long and short range, deception, research, ect.) And give them some tasks for them to accomplish with a ship and sorts just say 'alright, this here is the date, what do you want to do? Explore this planet? Fight these gangers and gain supportbin a sector? Blow up this Imperial Factory? Ect.')
Yeah, we'll see. I guess if things don't work out, I can write outlines for book writers who are talented at telling stories.
@@Dragonspirit223 I feel like its okay to DM like this; if the players don’t want to go off a quest when offered its fine because it’s what they want to do, and every story has minor rail roading in terms of giving them objectives, and that is pretty much okay with everyone.
Indeed. Some want to tell their story with the players.
Some want to tell it DESPITE the players.
@@nextPr0fess0rCha0s And then there are some, like one of my current GMs, who just drop their barely-tamed little PC gremlins into the world and story they've carefully made and then sit back and watch it burn with a bizarre sort of fascination.
...He's a bit of an odd case though.
DM: "I MUST HAVE EVERY CHARACTER HAVE PERFECT STATS THE PERFECT RACE AND THE PERFECT CLASS!"
Also DM: "Yeah, don't worry about the stats, focus on the gameplay at it's core, storytelling!"
There's nothing wrong with having a more cinematic style game with players who are always serious and in character, but you just mislead two new players into a disaster trap of railroading as their FIRST EXPERIENCE. That game makes my first time dming look good.
While this whole mess was horrible, I don't think what you complained about is contradictory. If everyone has optimal stats, combat won't be so scary or difficult - that leaves the game to be more focused on story. Mind you, of course the way they went about it was completely un-fun and I don't think anyone would start playing D&D if this was their introduction.
@@kaldo_kaldo Isn't the DM a god king? Why not just half the enemies health or some crap if you want battles to go faster?
Doesn't anything kind of go? Am I confused?
@@meoff7602 Anything goes but balancing encounters and enemies on the fly is actually super hard to get right.
For that 2nd part i totally agree. They are never gonna play any game pf dnd ever again
@@kaldo_kaldo Honestly. Let them roll unbalanced crap. If it's doomed it's doomed, dont corrupt their first time with omega powergaming/bottlenecking their choices to "Pick 1 or 2. There's more but you cant pick those. Pick this exact class. Bla bla".
That isnt fun. If it isnt fun, they dont come back, the combat isnt gonna be scary sure, but that implies they GET TO the combat, or care.
0:34: "4th edition"
Oh no... this will not end well.
9:36: "I can tell the players are not having fun."
This won't be good!
12:46: "The two new players got in their car, left, and the saddest part is, I never saw them again."
I waaaaaarned youuuuu!
Tragic to hear a story of how people got soured on the get from a really bad first experience.
So the dude said, "what's dnd" and this is session 0, and it's intended to be more serious? I've been there for the diet version of this, and it didn't go well, this is going to be an absolute trainwreck
This is how you get people to be biased against D&D.
If you're new, you want to go with first level and make the process quick.
Can you even make it quick? I mean you're going to have to roleplay a little. You have to know something about your character - the lore of their race, class, subclass stuff like deities, patrons, orders, sorcerous origins, oh god oh fuck there's so much looooooore - not to mention all the nuts and bolts numbers crunching that goes into filling out a character sheet. I mean maybe if you know what you're doing sure, but if you're totally new there is like... a fundamental lack of knowledge that is going to make all of this take ages to even begin to wrap your head around. Assuming you aren't going to use a premade character sheet. Which uhh... yeah, probably should have just done that.
@@a.lampman2165 but at least the core book has helpful tips on where to put your stats to play towards your character's role in the group. Lore can come later, your characters at first level are meant to be rookies who don't know about the wider world until they travel to a location... there's thankfully less number crunching at first level than at higher levels.
I started off at level 1 my first time, and I played a character I made. It was a bit difficult, because I had never played before. I think one really good way to show someone what playing dnd is like is to have them tag along to a session, or find one to watch online. I had no clue how to roleplay in dnd, and it wasnt until a month or two I started playing that I actually got the hang of what I was doing. I think that by having someone watch first, it might help them out. As well as taking the time to answer their questions about races, classes, stats, etc. Even just giving them the handbook while they're making the character would help.
Meanwhile my group's like "for this one shot, let's all play skeletons with pun-ny names, and surprise the dm with it at the table" 😂
The DM was pretty... boned, right?
@@oz_jones*badum tss*
4 hours of character creation...followed by "Let's not worry about the numbers"? Those poor new players...they're never playing an RPG again. I've had my players look at me like that before, but I make it a point to slow down, make sure they understand, and if it just doesn't click, skip over it and worry about it later.
Whixh is why I love 5e, I ask the players a few questions and out comes a character, then I take care of rules, they take care of decisions it’s just easier 🤷♂️
The way I handle a new player is simply to give them a pre-gen (while asking them beforehand what they generally want; I can optimize towards their desire better than they could), and then get them playing immediately. They can learn the game as they play, with new mechanics being introduced and explained the moment they become relevant.
Hahahaha, and this video is after Puffin Forest complains about PF2e takes too much time for character creation and Nonat did a response video. 🤣
"In dnd there are 4 rules: leader, defender striker and controller. "
Excuse me, but have you played an awesome game where all 8 players are bard?
Those four roles can be fulfilled with a group of bards
Dude I would totally be down for an all-bard campaign.
@@ripwitch9833 DM:"Let's NOT roll the initiative. Just tell me how the enemies die."
In 4e, Bards have the role of "Leader" aka Healbot.
Just another example of how they tried to make D&D like a pen and paper World of Warcraft.
You really, really do not need to follow the old "DPS/Tank/Healer" setup. Imbalanced parties can be more tactically interesting.
i've only ever been asked to bring a certain archetype to a group once, granted, i also asked what the party was like and what they felt was missing. the party said "i guess we can use a tank?" so i brought in a conjuration wizard (3.5 edition) with the plan to summon a tank when we need one.
"I prefer not to use the term 'Roleplaying'. It's a bit misleading. Really it's 'Acting'!"
Way to make it sound like they have even less choices. I'd hate to have this guy DMing.
Yeah, I think the "acting" here definitely implied a hard script in the DM's mind. Especially when the DM started giving out stage directions for how the players should "act"
Also, if all the numbers and stats and damage is something they "don't need to worry about" then why did the asshole make them spend all that time on his railroady character creation? With that attitude you'd think he'd be all for pre-genning and/or using the online character creator.
Seriously. If he really wanted to focus on more roleplaying and better acting should have dropped the newbs entirely and made some drama student friends or something.
@@Jenacide As a drama student, no, I'd spend the entire thing being ridiculous and doing improv, and so would like 99% of my drama friends, we're a fairly ridiculous group.
At first I thought,"Wow finally, a group that will remember Bless!"
Isn't that the spell you can only use when someone sneezes?
I got invited to a bait and switch. Told me we'd play as ourselves dumped into a fantasy world. After I'd managed to kill a bandit and arm myself, he poofs us, we wake up with these magic weapons. Turns out this was his favorite cartoon, he cast us as it's characters. I walked.
The DM just sounds like a dude who can't handle customization. Which really sucks.
I can kind of understand where he's coming from, I've had players who either don't know what half the stuff does on their sheet or they are gremlins who combine feats, classes, and races in a way that was never intended but is mechanically disgusting. Honestly just strikes me as a guy who didn't want to deal with either but I got the best part about d&d is imagination and choice.
I mean. The DM saw a problem, and thought they were solving it.
PROBLEM. Game takes forever to play.
1- Smaller group.
2- Better character knowledge through basic character creation.
3- Specialized heroes.
It just sounds like they had their own excitement and plan get in the way of all of the fun.
@@Lazysupermutant Still it was the curing sickens with poison thing. I know that bunch of mid-gamers who know basic, but not exactly understand spirit of the game can be irritating. But there are specific rules you use to introduce newcomers to RPG, because it is super easy to confuse and bored them with number flood, before they even know what roleplay is. It is why I usually bring one newcomer to somewhat competent group, give him default characters to pick (until he ask otherwise, then help him create it individually) and ask others to be understanding and help him with numbers in nesesery. Then jump immediately into action. In this case DM was clearly control freak who lied to Puffin and ignored him when he transparently know better.
@@B00Radl33 That is true but that is not the point. You forget about point 4: Only experienced players, not beginners! That is what Puffin though it would be the case, not control freak DM forcing confused people into the molds.
"How to put people off D&D forever 101"
DM: "You dont need to care about the numbers, its about the story"
Also DM: "You have to fill this character exactly right or you will be bad"
Checks out
DM Dictators be like: "They need to learn how to play D&D the *Reich* way”
And then they unironically shill for high elves
Puns, my ancient enemy
Your old DM seems to have missed the part where he is LITERALLY GOD. If the players are taking too long to kill your encounters, just make them less tanky *facepalm*
Many DMs completely forget that they are actually the authority, even above the rulebook. Probably because 4e. That was a much more restrictive version in general.
4E balance was wiggity wack and just as wack to tweak I will give him that
@@allenholloway5109 I can hear it in my head the DM going "The MM says it has 200 HP, so it has 200 HP even if I think the players take a long time killing it."
The DM must have torn out page 42 of his DMG. You know, the page that tells you to ignore/make up rules if it makes the game more fun at the moment?
@@DualEdgest Those kinds of people tend to ignore that page in any version of the game.
This hurt my heart. I DM'd for a group of newbies when I was a new DM and over the course of meeting with a couple at a time I handheld them through character creation and let them have what they wanted but explained pros and cons and I left the world pretty open ended cause I wanted everyone to have fun and feel included and be the hero they wanted to be. Everyone stayed through the whole campaign and it'll be a good memory for me forever and I hope it is for some of them. We were always laughing thru the night. These poor new players probably gave up the hobby :'( glad you didnt though, Ben.
1:23
“And someone who comes up with character concepts that are not super lame”
Or *Absurd* ...nah never
i assume what he meant by that is abagaros the fighter who fights and has no backstory but shure
defenseive kobra yeah, I just said or *Absurd* out loud when watching the video, and thought I’d comment it,
(also it’s sure)
This dm is stupid
"Let's be serious"
*new player that knows nothing
Makes me think of that line from the second Community d&d episode: "that's what I like about roleplaying games, being told exactly what to do (/s)"
The "Right way":
The, what is often times, Wrong Way
Everyone else: “I get 5e tries to break the mold of not needing healers, but whenever we don’t have one it’s so painful.”
My campaigns: “YOU GET A HEALING ABILITY, YOU GET A HEALING ABILITY, *EVERYONE GETS A HEALING ABILITY!”*
Edit: Ok, maybe I should clarify, when I say “YOU GET A HEALING ABILITY”, I mean “you have the ability to heal people”. Feel like a lot of people got confused at that
My solution to every party needing a healer would be to just remove healers.
Ah yes. The Guild Wars 2 method.
@@phantom-ri2tg wha-......wha....wha..
@@phantom-ri2tg I'm confused...
Good house rule in general is that drinking potions is a bonus action, so people can chug healing pots without being completely useless. It makes your alchemist artificer feel better about all the herb gathering he does.
This DM: "I THINK YOU'RE HAVING FUN WRONG AND THAT'S STOPPING *ME* HAVING FUN, WHICH IS THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS TO ME, BWAAAAAAHHHH"
If someone told me, "come on thursday and bring a cleric" I would bring the most broken sh*t I can work out, if they said anything I would answer "you asked me to bring a cleric, I brought a cleric *this is your fault* ...now about that divine intervention..."
Step 1: No healing spells
Step 2: Light Cleric (Fireball is a personality trait right?)
Step 3: ????
Step 4: Profit
I play Pathfinder not DND, but I'm in the same boat. I'd 110% bring a cleric with no healing abilities and a bunch of offensive buffs and damage capabilities.
Me: I’m playing an alchemist healer
"So this is my 3.5ed Cleric. He has divine Metamagic, Vow of Poverty and Chastity, and his level 1 spells are against 21 DC. He has travel domain so he has freedom of movement every day and will later get free teleports."
@@danielhughes6556 I literally did exactly this. You want a cleric? Well I'm bringing one that gets fireballs. To date, the only heal spells I've used have all been life transference.
I played a game of Call of Cthulhu where the toxic GM tried to execute someone they didn't like. They failed 3 point blank gunshot rolls, and then said "well you died anyways"
Wowww, how did the player/table react?
@@thepants1450 we saw what he was doing an proceeded to derail his campaign as a sign of solidarity. I'm usually the gm, and he wanted to take a shot at it. I think the power just went to his head. At least it's left the group with a hilarious story that involves smearing poop on prison walls and burning down an innocent town
BreadlyToastington I mean it’s call of Cthulhu, that is such an obvious way to kill a player. I mean for gosh sakes have some fun with it, this shouldn’t be hard.
I say this as a GM of 5 years (5 years for Call of Cthulhu, more on other systems), dead PCs give the story flavor, don’t be afraid to kill some one off, it also it isn’t going to be hard to accomplish. That GM sounds like an asshole though.
That's like playing Storm Troopers and Red Shirts:
ST: *pew pew* We missed you!
RS: Ha ha! We died anyway!
He couldn't have driven the character insane with an eldritch horror from space? It's kind of dumb to do a "rock falls, you die" scenario just because you don't like someone and couldn't kill them in the rules?
It's Call of Cthulhu? Where's the tentacled space monster or human sacrifice?
Honestly introducing new players to 4e means you didn't have much of a shot at retention but coupled with THAT DM?! Those players will never play d&d again lol
Last time I was this early, I was having in person DnD sessions
@Shellstorm 1 I dont think you know what irony is
You mean your not now? Weak.
@@DukeGrimwaldTesco I think most of the people in my group want to have in person sessions again, but we have one pansy... :D
"As the DM, it's my job to set up encounters and build the setting. If the PC's take too long to kill monsters or dick around too much, maybe I should cater to those needs and deficiencies...
No, it's the PC's who are wrong."
Actually the DM's wrong in this situation due to him being to controlling and ruining the fun of the players by making it so they can't be creative
@@MadShike Looking back on this comment, I think I worded it wrong. What I meant was that if the combat drags and players are ignoring plot elements because they're boring/railroaded, the DM needs to cater to the players' style of play instead of forcing the game to go HIS way.
@@andgodsaiduntoabraham oh, sorry I missinterpret-ed what you're saying
@@MadShike ever see that principal skinner meme?
Me, a dm that encourages his players roleplay and find ways to avoid combat whenever they can because I find they make the game and story more interesting: This dude's nuts.
"There's no wrong way to play, but don't do this! Do this!" I don't like that.