Why Are People Still Biphobic In 2024??
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- Опубликовано: 19 окт 2024
- All the discourse!
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this episode was so validating esp after I spent all june being the bisexual to explain to people why married individuals are *still* bisexual regardless of the gender of the person they married.
also zendaya is the easy answer but I will also add natalie dormer and michael b jordan
My long term partner came out as trans about a year and a half ago and so I went from being in a "hetero" looking relationship to a "gay" looking relationship.
The fact that I feel so much more comfortable in my, now queer, relationship has really made me realize how much bi-phobia, internalized and otherwise, I was experiencing - especially in the queer community. I had always rationalized it to myself as "oh I'm just introverted and I don't need to be in queer spaces" but I think the reality was that I just didn't feel welcome anywhere because of my "Bi-privilege".
Now people tend to read me as a lesbian, which is also not true but feels much more comfortable than the years I spend sort of half out of the closet because I didn't want to be one of "those" bi people who talks about it all the time when they're not wanted.
This is something I think about because my partner is nb and transfemme. I'm bi and nb, and we're read as a cishet couple. But once they start HRT, eventually we will be read as a lesbian couple. And being visibly queer will be new for me.
Gabe has a very leveled opinion. People should worry about themselves more, and let people associate where they feel most comfortable.
100% agree. When we start policing pride, we lose tbh. Also, the "covering yourself in bi paraphernalia to be accepted" is way too relatable 😢
PS: To answer the question of the day... Brody Dalle (especially in a mohawk lol).
I wanna thank you both for bringing up this topic as I bi person I always feel unseen or unwelcome by the community . I wish i knew people here in Kansas City like you both this content was so appreciated 💙🩷💜
My GOD this feels good to hear. I used to identify as a lesbian out of my own biphobia, and now that I'm with a trans man I am FEELING all of this. Last time we went to a butch party and some girl asked to to leave because we're straight. This hurt so much that I avoid queer spaces now unless they're expressively inclusive of trans mascs
it was really heartbreaking as a teenager to realize i was bi, feel unwelcome in straight spaces, & then try to connect with my own community only to find out that i was often unwelcome in those spaces as well. to this day i just tell people im queer instead bc i hate the suspicion i immediately get when i say im bisexual. i understand the defensiveness to some degree of wanting certain spaces to only be for queer people and feeling like bi people are the ones letting those ‘infiltrators’ in, but i’m sorry, we should know better as queer people that *nothing* is black & white. you have no idea what anyone is going through & alienating queer people from their own spaces is so incredibly unhelpful.
as a lesbian it really makes me see red when lesbian and gay ppl are biphobic or transphobic. like we should all be in this together!!!!
I've dated men in the past and tried dating women on the apps. Some of the women I matched with would be intense with their questions about my dating history. I got ghosted after a woman asked was I gay or bi and I said bi. Biphobia is still a thing.
It's not biphobic for someone to have preferences and not want to date a bisexual. We can't go around calling other people some type of phobic simply for not choosing to date us and for having preferences. If that were the case everyone on the planet would be considered some type of phobic because we all have preferences and things we are into and attracted to and things we are not. They aren't attacking you for no reason, they just don't want to date you. Browbeating people about their sexual preferences does little to win them over. These are the harsh realities of dating. Someone might reject you for frivolous reasons relating to your physical appearance, like a face mole or crooked teeth. No one should have to justify the choices they make about their bodies, nor the people they will and won’t be intimate with. Our sexuality and preferences should not be policed by anyone, It's just as bad as a overweight woman telling you that you're fat-phobic if you're not into dating them. I know many bisexual men and women who have no issue finding someone who are interested in dating them. My advice would be to focus on the ones who will date you instead of the ones who wont. You're never going to be everyone s cup of tea. .
@kmarie7051 I'm in a happy, monogamous relationship for over a year! Your assumption is wrong. My comment is referring to when I was single, my experience is still valid.
@@kmarie7051 "Preferences" with these topics is often a very comfortable way for people to have prejudices based on phobic ideas. Sure, there are people who have built in preferences for some of these things but let's not act like everyone or even most of these people aren't using the preference argument as a way to not have to face their biphobia etc. Just like someone having a preference for skinny people or a preference for cis-people might actually just be rooted in biases based on societal conditioning that is fat- or transphobic. Attraction doesn't exist in a vacuum. "Preferences" is absolutely also a dogwhistle for certain hateful/anti movements to shame marginalized and oppressed people without overtly exposing their hateful agenda and risking being called out for it.
@@miipmiipmiip Nobody is shaming anyone..they just don't want to date them. If anyone is trying to shame others it's the people calling others some type of phobic simply for having preferences. If I don't find someone attractive or if something about them turns me off that's not shaming them. If they are offended and can't handle rejection and not being everyone's cup of tea then that's an issue with them and they need to learn to be okay with not everyone wanting to date them. If someone didn't like something about me or wasn't attracted to me because of it, no matter what it is then i'm completely fine with it because I don't feel i'm entitled to everyone accepting and being attracted to me or everyone liking me or even having the same opinions as me. You can't force people to date you if they don't want to. Some people simply find a bisexual person a turn off or too confusing and would prefer to date a monosexual like themselves..Some people find certain personalities or character traits a turn off...some people find skinny or overweight people a turn off...you get the drift. No one gets to tell others what they can or can't find appealing and try to shame them for having sexual preferences. In fact it's even more of a turn off when someone tries to blackmail and manipulate and guilt-trip others to date them in this way. It's controlling and manipulative. If someone feels insecure being with a bisexual because they feel they aren't enough because the bisexual person is going to want the other sex also, that's fine too and they don't have to date a bisexual if they feel that way. If someone is turned off by someone with a high body count or if someone has children from a previous relationship, that's fine too...there's no right or wrong when it comes to our romantic and sexual preferences. Some people might even choose not to date someone based on their politics..it can be for literally any reason. People make judgements and assumptions about others all the time..if someone say they don't they're lying..we are all doing all the time and it's the way our brains function...if it didn't it would be like we were all looking at space aliens every time we saw someone.
When it comes to the trans issues, again it's not tranphobic for a person to not want to date them. Sexual orientation is about sex, not gender, penile-vaginal intercourse is technically heterosexual sex. Lesbians, by definition, are not sexually attracted to people who have a penis, and gay men are not sexually attracted to people with a vagina. It's like saying a gay man is straightphobic for not wanting to sleep with a woman. From a scientific perspective, those who are sexually interested in women with a penis have a paraphilia known as gynandromorphophilia. There was a big up roar not so long ago by lesbians who felt they were being made out to be transphobic for not wanting to date a transwoman with a penis. As I mentioned penile-vaginal intercourse conflicts with the definition of being lesbian. Attempts to coerce lesbian women into being sexually interested in penises have been rightfully compared to conversion therapy and corrective rape. if genitals don’t matter, as some of these female attracted trans women claim, then why aren’t they having sex with each other?...I've even heard multiple male attracted transwomen say they would not date a transman because he has a vagina and even if they have a phalloplasty they would prefer the real thing...are trans people transphobic?
@@kmarie7051Some of them are dating each other, though? A decent number, actually.
I feel like you were discussing things in a logical manner otherwise, so this oversight struck me as odd.
Thank you!!!! I am always scared as a queer person in a straight passing relationship during pride month and it sucks! Plus my partner wants to be a good, supportive ally to his partner and queer family/friends!
Last time I checked this channel was in summer 2016
I can tell you the surprise watching this video for the first time
A refreshingly nuanced view from Gabe
SLO-mo Bujo sounds quite fabulous honestly! 👏🏽
First everything! I have been a loyal couch viewer since the beginning
Vlogbrothers brought me in 9 years ago.
@@sexyscientistvlogbrothers brought you to Alison and Gabe?
@@craigjenkins5434 Correct. It was this video to be precise: ZlW6J_S-DQc
Thank you! I'm a bisexual non-binary fem engaged to an agender man. We're both straight cis passing and all this discource started to make me worry about going to pride. I'm so thankful for all the support from people but also so sad because I thought we were getting past this
It's crazy how much people still hate on us bi's!! I have run into it repeatedly in my life, including issues at my last job.
it is so common for queer, trans, questioning, etc. people to feel "not gay enough" or "not trans enough" or "not whatever enough," that being exclusionary can prevent them from finding community and feeling comfortable in their own skin, which everyone should be able to do
of course I've experienced plenty of biphobia from gays, lesbians, straight ppl, but what's weird is that I've experienced A LOT of particularly vicious biphobia from people who use labels that mean the same thing as bisexual?? like, the only difference between you and me is the prefix of your label and the colors on your flag, but you hate me for my identity? it's really weird and interesting. has anyone else experienced this? I'd love to know.
this is so real. people under the bi umbrella love to argue about which prefix is best, it’s so stupid.
I call myself Bi/Pan because I feel like either applies, and have been told to "just pick one."
This is so real.
The internalised biphobia is real. In any case, growing up led me to the path of self-hatred where I thrived on scraps on validation. The only queer people given a semblance of visibility only to dunk on them were gay men and trans women.
Ty for talking about biphobia!💖💜💙🌈
Obsessed with the topics you guys have been doing vids on recently ‼️
same! so good!
I feel like this is a topic we breached long ago on a different couch. It’s a good one to revist throughout the ages though
Thinking about starting a spin off channel where I just post videos every week doing whatever Allison says JBU does in their intros
omg brilliant
I'm reading this book called Bi: Notes for a Bisexual Revolution. And I must recommend to ALL bisexuals!!!
And everyone else obv
Appreciate y’all talking about biphobia again. Bi guy here who definitely feels more comfortable in queer spaces now with my current bf compared to when I was with my ex-gf. Not sure if that’s internalized or externalized biphobia.
Also the classic “ah yes all bi people must prefer men” is so eye roll inducing.
The topic is absolutely brilliant! 👏🏽
if a bisexual woman wants to bring her straight boyfriend to pride, a public event, to rejoice in her queerness with her and help understand that side of her i think that should actually be encouraged! we just need to remember that we are responsible for the people we share this space with; regardless of our partner or friend’s sexuality/gender if they are actively causing harm it is on us to remove them from the situation. basically, be respectful, be community minded, and be responsible with who you share spaces with. queer is beautiful and expansive!!!
I’m a straight cis woman dating a bi cis man-and I’m pretty sure at our local pride events, people assume he’s the straight one. I definitely see that assumption has hurtful to him, that he is not always welcome into his own community because of how he looks.
"Oh no, one of my sleeves was up and the other was down!" perfectly captures the bi experience lol
People are threatened by us bisexuals because we imply that gayness is a choice (the assumption being that if we can "choose" the gender of our partner, that we should "choose" a straight passing relationship). Somewhat paradoxically, a lot of people see bisexuality as a kind of stepping stone on the way to coming out as "full gay".
While I recognize the privilege that comes with being in a "straight-passing" relationship, it is also difficult to feel disconnected from my community, and stressful to consider if/how to come out. People talk about the privilege of getting to choose whether to out yourself, which is valid and fair, but it is also emotionally taxing to have to then explain my bi-ness because people assumed I'm straight based on my current partner but then I mention an ex of the same gender, or vice versa.
As a person who likes people regardless of sex or gender, I struggle to understand what/how the monosexual folks think and feel generally but also specifically when it comes to biphobia. Does not compute. Let’s all just be nice to each other 🫠😭
I am Bisexual but I am also off the market . I have not dated anyone for almost 6 years. I feel left out of the LGBT+ community because I stopped being intimate with other humans. That's a whole other issue stemming from my own self loathing . I have to be attracted to myself to feel confident in the dating world. It's been hard . I feel left out of everything being this kind of single
biphobia is real--and i think its more common than asexual-phobia, because bisexuality is more common than asexuality. we have to overcome our own internal fear of anything that is different from our own personal sexuality--a hold over of learned homophobia that we still have to unlearn again.
I met a girl in the psychward named allison and fell in love. Bi pride! Luv u guys♡ gabe....ur my rock♡
Love the new intros.
i think slow motion bullet journaling was first done in the matrix
That last question is a bold one to ask, considering us long-time fans have wanted to hook up with both of you at one point or another.
The self-imposed biphobia is also such a struggle, I felt so embarrassed to be in queer spaces as someone who had only been in "straight" relationships, and now my bi-ness has been proven by being in a "queer" relationship I feel so much more comfortable 😅 But it shouldn't be this way! Every single queer person is equally entitled to queer spaces! Your partner doesn't define your identity
Would you ever do a Sketch again? (Please)
YES
A valid question! How fun would that be!
So real! I understand why people are afraid of cishet men BUT you can't tell who someone is just by looking at them or talking to them! And it's strange that the mistrust of cishet men also transfers over to anyone associated with them - like as a bi woman if you're with a man there's something a little less trustworthy about you🙄
This is why gabe is our bicon *bisexual Icon wink* 👏👏
Biphobia and bisexual invalidation remain *far* too common 😢
Its pretty sad that people have to wear their flags in order to be accepted in tribes. Sure it makes finding groups and making friends a lot easier, but it just seems really shallow too, like, "you aren't like us so go away", or, "you are the lower caste since im more hardcore about it" no different from wearing crosses, maga hats or other/additional clothing paraphernalia. My doctor wears a pride/trans pin because she wants her patients to feel like they can talk about their gender issues without judgement, but I don't think she does the pride events, or focuses on belonging to gender tribes. Personally I think theres more to people than their gender, and making safe spaces like how my doctor does it is great, same with the pride parades, I just don't know if it should be all encompassing, like if its 50%+ of what you talk about (same with religion politics, etc) then maybe one should take a step back just my opinion
i consider biphobia to be strange in general, but i find it particularly bizarre that someone could say "well you only hang out with gay men now" as an argument for why you 'don't count as bi anymore'. like, since when do friendships impact someone's sexuality? like don't get me wrong, queer spaces are great and having friends who understand you is even better, but you could go your whole life without meeting a single other bi person, and that would have absolutely no bearing on whether you were bi or not
Allison's shock/horror at "puppy people"... Kink at pride episode?
I was shocked like "wait has Allison never been to pride?"
So adorable. Allison the animal lover being so intrigued by the phrase "puppy people" then wisely nodding Ahhh at the leather addition
i think the people saying that must be really young, pride has always been for everyone and everyone who loves us too. lesbian bars are different because like you said, you have an expectation of who is going to be there, even if i had straight cis men i trusted (i don’t), i don’t think i would bring them because other people don’t know them and i don’t want to make anyone feel unsafe.
Most of the biphobia I've experienced have been from queer people tbh lol
10:25 Glen Powell
as always, a great discussion
Ross Lynch. Spencer Reid from Criminal Minds (obviously not possible but that wasn’t the question).
I am completely baffled by the idea of "no this is not a straight person space". After decades of discrimination and being told "no this is not a queer space", I would expect people to realize that the moment you start to turn something into "us and them" you create animosity. Yes sure, be queer and be proud, run lesbian bars and have safe spaces. But welcome anyone who wants to be there regardless of sexual preference. I mean isn't this exactly the thing the entire queer community fought for? To have the right to be anywhere straight people can be and to be treated with respect? Let people come into your communities (as long as they are respectful) because that is the only way for us to meet each other at a human and politically uncharged level.
I think just “don’t bring queerphobic people to pride” is better. I have been to many queer spaces where someone’s cis het allo boyfriend has been kind of dragged along by a queer girlfriend (or worse they actively want to come and do this) and they are snarky and want to debate peoples identities and make edglelord jokes and stuff, it happens quite often in my small town in the uk. but just as often, it’s been someone’s random straight cis het allo friend or family member or something, of any gender, being like that not just bi girls straight boyfriends, so idk why that’s singled out?💜
As a recently out bi woman in a nearly 16-year-old relationship with a man, I feel seen by this video. I’ve never been to Pride, but I did get myself a rainbow pin and a bi flag pin right after coming out to my family. It’s funny how it took me six years to realize that I wasn’t just a really supportive ally, you guys! 🩷💜💙✨
I thought the whole point is that ally’s can come to pride too, literally this gatekeeping baffles me.
most ppl are close minded and tribal whether straight or queer. i've been discriminated by the entire spectrum just by existing and i'm straight. ppl can't live and let live. it seems we have to destroy each other.
I think the biggest reason this phobia still exists, is largely because of non hetero women who only date women, who are enraged by non hetero women who are in to both sexes.
They hate that some non hetero women date men, like and love men, it really, really bothers them.
I think the core reason it bothers them, is because the existence of non hetero women being deeply into men, debunks their beliefs that women loving women relationships are superior.
The idea is, "why in the world would she be with a man, when the orgasm gap exists, male violence exist, when studies show that women dating women relationships are better than male/female relationships, etc." They really can't believe that some women actually like men, and even prefer men. They can't believe they enjoy sex with men, and enjoy communicating in a relationship with men. Etc.
It's as if to them, these women are traitors of their own gender, that they are lying to themselves about their desires for men. So when they see these non hetero women bringing their hetero boyfriends to pride for instance, it's highly offensive to them because they think their relationships are a farce.
Really, non hetero women who are into both sexes will ironically never be fully accepted, until the hate for hetero men end,s which is never going to happen, so the phobia will continue.
Everyone belongs at pride except cops ❤
The end goal to me is no more labels. Can't wait to see the day we realize we're hurting each other for no reason.
Is there a word for not monosexual exactly but also not bisexual? Attracted to a part of the gender spectrum including say, for example Mae Martin who may or may not be my answer to your question 🙃
Straight people at pride is something I feel conflicted about a lot. While I'll always give individuals the benefit of the doubt (like Gabe said they might be trans, questioning or bi) it was pretty clear that most of the people at my town's pride last year were straight couples (bringing kids, which I hate, but that's a different topic). And while it's important straight people learn about LGBT+ culture I think I was valid in disliking feeling like a minority at an event that was supposed to be for people like me. I probably won't go this year. Plus, it was just another reminder that we are still very much a minority and straight culture could turn on us again whenever it wants to, and we would be powerless to stop it.
Can I ask why you hate when people bring kids to Pride? Is it just straight couples' kids or anyone's kids?
Went to pride in SF.... I'd be more concerned about the coopting by corporations. Made me want to not go back.
@@bassrocks9 Maybe I'm just a prude but personally it feels really weird having toddlers running around between leather daddies and people in nip tassels and puppy gear
It's almost as if you listened to the video, but didn't quite internalise the message? First up, you have *no way* of knowing that every couple that looked "obviously straight" to you was in fact 100% cis-het, no queerness in sexuality or gender whatsoever. You cannot foolproof tell just by looking at someone.
They could have been anywhere on the bi+ spectrum (incl pan, omnisexual etc) in relationships that LOOK outwardly hetero. There's a FUCKTON of those relationships because again, as the video discusses (with examples!!!), many people who're bi+ feel so anxious about claiming any part of the LGBTQ+ because of internal and external pressures. A lot of them will have kids, yeah. Them KIDS could be the gay ones even!
Pride is supposed to be a public event with some sub-events age restricted ofc, but otherwise public means freedom of participation by ANYONE.
You'll also have people on the asexual or aromantic spectrum that find a home within the queer community, even if their "partner" orientation isn't 100% queer.
Those groups I've just mentioned are only *just* beginning to find their footing in expressing pride in their identities, so why're we doing our best to gatekeep?
Thirdly yes straight people should feel welcome at Pride so they can educate themselves or just be there for their queer loved ones who're attending Pride. Yes that could be the straight wife to the bi husband or the straight boyfriend to the ace girlfriend.
And lastly - that last comment about kids was messed up. You are welcome to have your own personal opinion on kids but doesn't erase the fact they're tiny vulnerable humans who have rights and you cannot wipe off the face of the earth just because you dont enjoy them. I've never cared to have a pet, it's not even a strong dislike just never been into it. Wtf would I look like telling pet lovers to not walk their dogs on my street? Dude seriously replace the word "children" in your original comment with "disabled people" or "ppl from this country" and it'll highlight how out of line you are.
Children literally cannot control Father Time or their development anymore than you can. Lmao and if you still feel a damn way about it then you should be the first to apologise to your parents and your fam for existing as a child and needing childlike accommodations in your life.
Dude c'mon. I know it feels like straight people have everything but this is the kind of toxic overcorrection from some queer folk that think the answer to all that oppression is to be shitty & exclusionary back.
in some places if there were no straight people in the parade there would barely be a parade. i want straight people in our corner, especially people with small children because i was a small child once and i needed adults like that. or they might not even be straight and you’re just assuming. i think it’s important that they are there. much more important than floats supporting some corporation.
Allison is bulking up
please do not comment on people bodies.
Whoe cares
the viewerse ofe thise channele, that'se whoe ;)