One of the reasons that I became interested in B5: they had aliens that actually seemed...alien. Yes, you had the Centauri who were superficially pass-for-human, the Narn and the Minbari who looked different but still seemed based on the basic biped model...and then there's the Vorlons. You didn't know at first what the hell they looked like, and they seemed to have thought processes as far from ours as ours are from a horse. The later revelations about them only increased my fascination.
Moreover, Ambassador Mollari was introduced as a comical figure, cadging money at the gambling tables, and Ambassador G'kar was introduced as somewhat sinister. A far cry from what they ended up becoming. =^[.]^=
What if everything Kosh did here was a mistake? Not a failing, but... This is Valen, someone he spent years with during the last war. Were they friends? The flesh is different, but what do Vorlons care for flesh? This is the same soul that he knew. Maybe, in the briefest moment, Kosh forgot that vast distance of time, and welcomed in a friend who didn't know it yet. Maybe the cosmic being stumbled, and this is him genuinely embarrassed by his own vulnerability in this moment. Maybe I'm making too great of leaps for the logic, but I like the idea. The first time Kosh is here, and he lets down more walls than he should have.
A child is not at fault for failing to understand a parent or adult who always speaks in cryptic, vague, ambiguous, obscure, unclear, indirect, incomplete, half-meaningless riddles.
It's easier to understand Kosh Naranek if one remembers that his species is a telepathic gestalt and share one mind, though KN is far from home and may be cut off... And that the Vorlons are wise enough and knowledgeable enough to predict the future with excellent accuracy. Much of what he says makes good sense then.
When he appeared to Sheridan as his father and apologised for not helping more he was being much more direct. Possibly because he was being killed at that moment and had no further actions to take.
At the start Sinclair says "Can I see you". In a general form this means "can I come to your room and speak". However with what we know of Vorlons and their manipulation of how others see them; it becomes more nuanced. Kosh doesn't respond but allows Sinclair to come in. Kosh hides behind the screening area so Sinclair cannot see him and then when back is turned rushes over to his environment suit, again denying Sinclair sight of his form. Its semantics; "see you" has many meanings.
The first time I saw Kosh was in the pilot movie, The Gathering. And his encounter suit reminded me of the coolant suits the aliens constructed to protect themselves from radiation in the War of the Worlds TV series from 1988. That got me intrigued enough, so I had to watch the series when it came out, and I've been hooked ever since. Watched the entire series when it originally aired (which was not easy because they kept changing time slots, channels, etc), bought the series on DVD when it came out, and now also own it on Blu-ray. Still my favorite sci-fi series ever.
The writer deliberately made his words sound like he was choosing them carefully to address all or multiple questions at once with one answer.😊. He was also cryptic with everything deliberately, even if it made no sense.😊
@@Kosh1516 And because of a single death, they decided to commit multi genocide? Sorry, but the Minbari did it first and with a little more reason. If the Vorlons wanted justice, they should have nuked Zhadum.
@@BlueEyesDudeDragon31 That was forbidden. If they had tried to attack Zhadum the other first ones still around would have intervened to stop them, and the vorlons knew it.
And yet his true form still remains concealed. His equivalent of "casual clothing" - which could only be seen in his windowless private cabin with an invitation and a gasmask - is still some sort of cryptic Vorlon stealth/mask/deception garment.
Did not expect Sinclair so soon... you may be on to something here, especially as the Vorlons seem able to predict the future with pretty good accuracy.
That DS9 had to copy what JMS told them of B5 when he started to make B5, it might suggest that they knew Star Trek was finished. I mean, having to copy a superior product, and then settle out of court?
It's deducible that the Vorlons are a telepathic gestalt people. - and they seem able to predict the future ( or know what is inevitable ). It happens many times with tings they say. Interestingly, the Shadows also seem to obey the rules of future destined things. Such as Morden knowing he'll die just as Vir asked for. That may be why he gives Vir the finger when handing over that crystal.
Although I'd argue that a mathematician answering an a or b question with yes simply means yes, it's either a OR b. But I get the impression that what Kosh means here is... BOTH.
The Centauri are all but destroyed, but later recover, and the Narn are seeking to become a telepathic race again (based upon G'Kar and Talia setting out together, and G'Kar's very first conversation with Talia in mind. Perhaps they both are going to change 'pass' into something else?
@@KneelB4Baconit's more than that. To kosh, he doesn't seem them as different. The narn and the Centauri are connected the way the minbari and humans are connected.
So Kosh started the yes meme
yes
It would seem
YES
Psh, I had been doing that for years before this came out.
Mayhaps.
One of the reasons that I became interested in B5: they had aliens that actually seemed...alien. Yes, you had the Centauri who were superficially pass-for-human, the Narn and the Minbari who looked different but still seemed based on the basic biped model...and then there's the Vorlons. You didn't know at first what the hell they looked like, and they seemed to have thought processes as far from ours as ours are from a horse. The later revelations about them only increased my fascination.
Moreover, Ambassador Mollari was introduced as a comical figure, cadging money at the gambling tables, and Ambassador G'kar was introduced as somewhat sinister. A far cry from what they ended up becoming. =^[.]^=
@@Raycheetah What does the sequence of symbols at the end of your message represents? A Vorlon in its suit?
@@mendelovitch It's a smiling Cheetahmoticon. =^[.]^=
@@Raycheetah Ah! I see now! The face colours are the brackets.
@@mendelovitch The tear-streaks, yep! =^[.]^=
What if everything Kosh did here was a mistake? Not a failing, but... This is Valen, someone he spent years with during the last war. Were they friends? The flesh is different, but what do Vorlons care for flesh? This is the same soul that he knew. Maybe, in the briefest moment, Kosh forgot that vast distance of time, and welcomed in a friend who didn't know it yet. Maybe the cosmic being stumbled, and this is him genuinely embarrassed by his own vulnerability in this moment.
Maybe I'm making too great of leaps for the logic, but I like the idea. The first time Kosh is here, and he lets down more walls than he should have.
The practical effects of Kosh's suit are so cool.
If a child does not understand it is not the child's fault.
A child is not at fault for failing to understand a parent or adult who always speaks in cryptic, vague, ambiguous, obscure, unclear, indirect, incomplete, half-meaningless riddles.
An adult often communicates through references to assumed knowledge which a child seldom has.@@pwnmeisterage
It's easier to understand Kosh Naranek if one remembers that his species is a telepathic gestalt and share one mind, though KN is far from home and may be cut off...
And that the Vorlons are wise enough and knowledgeable enough to predict the future with excellent accuracy.
Much of what he says makes good sense then.
And he never became any less enigmatic .
When he appeared to Sheridan as his father and apologised for not helping more he was being much more direct. Possibly because he was being killed at that moment and had no further actions to take.
At the start Sinclair says "Can I see you".
In a general form this means "can I come to your room and speak".
However with what we know of Vorlons and their manipulation of how others see them; it becomes more nuanced.
Kosh doesn't respond but allows Sinclair to come in.
Kosh hides behind the screening area so Sinclair cannot see him and then when back is turned rushes over to his environment suit, again denying Sinclair sight of his form.
Its semantics; "see you" has many meanings.
That he looks like a flashy jukebox in that suit is wonderful...
The first time I saw Kosh was in the pilot movie, The Gathering. And his encounter suit reminded me of the coolant suits the aliens constructed to protect themselves from radiation in the War of the Worlds TV series from 1988. That got me intrigued enough, so I had to watch the series when it came out, and I've been hooked ever since. Watched the entire series when it originally aired (which was not easy because they kept changing time slots, channels, etc), bought the series on DVD when it came out, and now also own it on Blu-ray. Still my favorite sci-fi series ever.
Kosh has a tactical flashlight.
Kosh IS a tactical flashlight. And a groovy cape.
A tactical flashlight head mounted upon a jukebox body... in a cape. That is peak right there.
The writer deliberately made his words sound like he was choosing them carefully to address all or multiple questions at once with one answer.😊. He was also cryptic with everything deliberately, even if it made no sense.😊
I love Kosh! I wish he and the rest of the Vorlons were real. Someone please upload a video of every full Kosh scene. Thanks!
We have always been here.
You wish they were real? What about all those planets and people they blew up?!
@@BlueEyesDudeDragon31 That was because the shadows killed Kosh.
@@Kosh1516 And because of a single death, they decided to commit multi genocide? Sorry, but the Minbari did it first and with a little more reason. If the Vorlons wanted justice, they should have nuked Zhadum.
@@BlueEyesDudeDragon31 That was forbidden. If they had tried to attack Zhadum the other first ones still around would have intervened to stop them, and the vorlons knew it.
Not a first scene.
Kosh: "I'd greet you in my suit but as you can see I am totally naked behind this screen"
Always awkward when you walk in on the Vorlon ambassador while he's taking a shower...
The vorlons, answer a question without giving a answer!!!
Such great foreshadowing here, why this show rocked
Kosh always freaked me out as a kid
A scene I quote often. Just change the Narn and Centauri for "Thing1" and "Thing2" that is the current subject of any conversation.
Poor Kosh he said yes but didn't expect Sinclair to arrive so soon. He was waiting for him to turn around so he could get in his encounter suit.
And yet his true form still remains concealed. His equivalent of "casual clothing" - which could only be seen in his windowless private cabin with an invitation and a gasmask - is still some sort of cryptic Vorlon stealth/mask/deception garment.
Caught in the shower . . . oh, the embarrassment . . . .
Did not expect Sinclair so soon... you may be on to something here, especially as the Vorlons seem able to predict the future with pretty good accuracy.
Yes, o.O
What do you like more, B5 or DS9?
Yes
B5 hands down. DS9 had its moments but it wasn't until the Founders story line that saved it from almost getting canceled.
B5 every time
That DS9 had to copy what JMS told them of B5 when he started to make B5, it might suggest that they knew Star Trek was finished.
I mean, having to copy a superior product, and then settle out of court?
Babylon 5 had the better story lines imo and overall better story imo
@@fxranger326 i agree i perfer B5 over ds9 although the founders arc was the best in DS9
Even the Vorlons get bothered when they were just having a nice hot shower.
Kosh can be described essentially as a cross between Gandalf meets Darth Vader!
Boolean algebra
at work :=D
Yes
Imagine a Vorlon who has a boudoir curtain in his quarters.
Answering "yes" to an either/or question is peak passive aggressive behavior.
"They are a dying people... we should let them pass..." That sounds more like Shadow Talk to me...?
It's deducible that the Vorlons are a telepathic gestalt people. - and they seem able to predict the future ( or know what is inevitable ). It happens many times with tings they say.
Interestingly, the Shadows also seem to obey the rules of future destined things. Such as Morden knowing he'll die just as Vir asked for. That may be why he gives Vir the finger when handing over that crystal.
Sinclair asked if he could see Kosh. No is the answer...
Are there earlier fictional (or real) occasions when an "one or the other" question is answered "Yes"?
It's called a "Mathematician's Answer" and you can find abundant examples on TV Tropes....if you do not value your free time.
Although I'd argue that a mathematician answering an a or b question with yes simply means yes, it's either a OR b. But I get the impression that what Kosh means here is... BOTH.
@@dynamicworlds1 dammit I just lost three hours thanks to you...
@@TheOmegaXicor I _did_ warn you
it is a bitwise or.
Narn is 01 and Centauri is 10.
Narn | 11 and Centauri | 11 both give 1 as an answer
we should let them pass
Not necessarily. The Vorlons would let them die if they thought it was too early to act.
So both the Narn and Centauri should pass on?
He thought so, though given the direction they finally took, it was probably an error of judgement.
Be didn’t mean it. Not the part about letting them die, given what he does later.
Kosh did not say "should" but "let them" as in "they're already dying".
Yessss
The Centauri are all but destroyed, but later recover, and the Narn are seeking to become a telepathic race again (based upon G'Kar and Talia setting out together, and G'Kar's very first conversation with Talia in mind.
Perhaps they both are going to change 'pass' into something else?
Wow, Kosh is so wise he cannot answer a simple question.
Looks like a robot and thinks like a robot.
if "Narn" or "Centauri"
then
"yes"
Kosh is actually answering BOTH of Sinclair's questions at once. The Narn AND the Centauri. (Are a dying people.)
he looks like an angel and thinks like one too
@@tonoornottono He looks like a ball of light who can choose to appear as a squid or an angel.
@@KneelB4Baconit's more than that. To kosh, he doesn't seem them as different. The narn and the Centauri are connected the way the minbari and humans are connected.
It wasn't a problem when the aliens saw their individual gods and Londo saw nothing. If I saw nothing I'd worry.