Why I'm Quitting Key Mixing
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- Опубликовано: 9 фев 2025
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I’ve been using key / harmonic mixing for a LONG time. Like many DJs, I thought the Camelot wheel was my friend. But it turns out it had been sabotaging my sets in ways I didn’t even realise. There are 5 big problems I want to tell you about, and how I managed to avoid them.
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🎧 Music
Johnny Berglund - Handcraft / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com
Jon Björk - Tearing Threads / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com
Trabant 33 - Der Tanz Für Die Folk / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com
Kikoru - Intentional Evil / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com
Sonata No. 14 In C Sharp Minor, Op. 27 No. 2 'Moonlight': I. Adagio Sostenuto / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com
John Barzetti - Dissonance Theory / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com
Divertimento In F Major, K. 138 'Salzburg Symphony No. 3': III. Presto / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com
Eine Kleine Nachtmusic / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com
National Anthem Worx - National Anthem Austria / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com
Wendel Scherer - Machiavellian / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com
Mar Vei - One Chord / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com
Pableno - Jalapeno / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com
waykap - Sinner (Instrumental Version) / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com
RaFa Sessions - Deep Marks / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com
Ruzer - Love Me Right Here / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com
Pableno - Forged / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com
House Of Say - At the Barbershop (Instrumental Version) / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com
Felix Johansson Carne - In the Dance / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com
Alphascan - Going Crazy / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com
Michelle Ross, Eric Jacobsen, Odyssey Orchestra - Vivaldi: The Four Seasons, Violin Concerto in E Major, Op. 8 No. 1, RV 269 "Spring": I. Allegro / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com
Michelle Ross, Eric Jacobsen, Karen Ouzounian - Vivaldi: The Four Seasons, Violin Concerto in G Minor, Op. 8 No. 2, RV 315 "Summer": I. Allegro non molto / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com
Blue Saga - Transitions (Extended Version) / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com
Conway Kuo, Blair McMillen - Mozart: Violin Sonata in A major, K. 526 II. Andante / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com
Conway Kuo, Blair McMillen - Mozart: Violin Sonata in G major, K. 301 II. Allegro / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com
Mira Ma, Eric Jacobsen, Odyssey Orchestra - Mozart: Piano Concerto No. 23 in A major, K. 488: III. Allegro assai / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com
Taelimb - Padlock / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com
Sir Gigalot - Morning Reggae / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com
Heyson - Gettin' Ready / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com
Have you ever felt trapped by your DJ workflow? How did you break out of it?
sounds like you have an issue with rekordboxs interface more than than basic music theory my dude.
No, most of what you said came back to your lack of knowledge of Music theory.
I started DJ'ing on Vinyl in the 80's on very basic equipment.
I did a Diploma of Electronic Music Production and so I approach DJ'ing from a Production basis.
I am also learning Piano and I play live instruments in my set.
Rekord box is buggy, and I use Traktor with a very similar Rig to DJ Rebekah and I add in an Ableton Push II.
Keep learning Music theory as that is the only way forward.
Ditch Rekord box and Pioneer equipment, swap to Traktor Pro 4 get a Z1 and upgrade your life.
sambuca
by practicing, trying, discovering, listening to other DJs, top and bottom.. mixing in key was never a thing before computers came in the game. I don't remember identifying a vinyl with a key or something related. I don't even remember talking about this with a coach..
..and as per the software, I produce with Serato Studio by moments and last week, for one of the very few times I loaded a sample, it wasn't in Am.. it was in D#m.. and I loaded the a Sonata in Em of Beethoven 🤷♂
Your ears, your knowledge are the power of DJing.. the rest is just "cool" but not useful.
Staying within a BPM range is another trap. I've recently been mixing (mashing up) 70BPM hiphop with 140BPM (70X2) hard groove. Also heavily speeding up 128-130BPM techno (non-vocals) to 140+ hard groove tracks which sound really good.
In a studio mix, you have the luxury of time to plan every detail, experiment, and ensure everything aligns harmonically. But live, it’s all about reading the room and capturing the moment. Sometimes, the best transitions aren’t the ones that are technically perfect but the ones that make the crowd feel you.
100 % agree! When I'm live DJing, I only care about which song I should play to rock the party crowd. Who care about you mix in harmony or not
@@soulbchan2020thank you brother! Keep going !
Big time
When my set got extended from 4 to 6hrs I just started taking random recommendations from my hypeman and the crowd they all loved it😂obviously cuz the vibe was there
I started as a vinyl DJ in the late 80's, I always used my ears and acquired song knowledge to blend the right tracks together. More importantly, I fed the crowd and their reactions fed me. I like contrast in my sets and the relativity that darker makes the light in a set look brighter, lighter makes the dark in a set look darker. If you do a dark set, throw a little light in and visa-versa. Add intro dropdown's to stop the crowd, to retuning their mind, body and ears to 'really dig' the next track dropped. I like my sets to be a soundscape journey of different colours, to provoke reaction, not a soundscape of mono colour where little changes and every song sounds too much the same. In short, if people dig it, do it. Experiment, be creative, learn from mistakes and most importantly, find your own identity as a DJ with adventurous creativity, to help you stand out as a DJ.
Very interesting video, key mixing is important but there are many other factors that should be considered when deciding the next tune!
Thanks, you know your stuff. Respect, peace and love.
Great tips!
I had exactly the same thoughts when I saw the video. I also started with vinyl. For me it was important to select records in this way when I was listening to them in the record store. Nowadays it feels different. I can still tell which track goes with which when I pull a record off the shelf, but I have less of a connection to the mass digital collections that have built up over the last few years.
Amen.
My man going outside first time since covid 🙏
I need another 4 years inside now after that
😂😂
@@ReallyChrisMhey Chris I cant find a video from you on Mixed in Key, wanted to see your thoughts on it compared to Rekordbox
As a dj who started on vinyl and still plays vinyl. Never had key detection then and it was never a problem. Like you I have this turned off. In fact never turned it on and never will.
i resonate heavy with feeling like the set is playing you sometimes
The key to mixing , pardon the pun, is knowing your music well and knowing it so well that the vibe chooses the next track not a software program or labelling system. Harmonic mixing is awesome when you lockin a few tracks in the same key but then it’s important to shift the vibe into a different key to change the energy of the mix. I always mixed by ear and it always served me, I also mix harmonically when the moment calls for it, the key is to see it as a tool not as the way. Peace.
I recently watched a video by David Bruce called “How to Write a Great Melody (Over Chords)”. One of my main takeaways from the video was the idea that “tension is just one step away from release”. Many great songs are composed with notes that aren’t strict to the key. This made me rethink my misconceptions about dissonance and the idea of tension.
I’ll have to check that one out!
Honestly the best thing you can do once you start looking into this idea is listening to some of the old jazz greats, but ESPECIALLY listening to Jacob Collier interviews.
I know a lot of people don't like his style of writing music, and you'd never DJ with his stuff, but he has the deepest, sincerest, most genuine understanding of using notes out of the key to create genuine movement and creating context to turn ugly notes into beautiful ones. Learning keys is interesting, but it gets so simple and intuitive when you hear him do his thing and explain his process. Keys are NOT rules, just suggestions and blueprints for safe, reliable melodic sensibilty. There's so much space for magic and freedom and awesome sounds outside of it.
That "long and winding journey" of marching through the camelot wheel can really pay off. In fact, I started out mixing that way. I found that both myself and the crowd didn't enjoy sets where I stuck to the same key for a while. One of the best times was when I had a goal song in mind and ran through a broad range of key and bpm to get to it. They really wanted me to keep playing.
every single video is full of great information. can't explain how far ive come becuase of your channel. thank you Chris
Appreciate that! 🙏
Best video of the inter webs. One thing I noticed is the same as the first part of the video... When I focused on key, I wound up stuck in those rabbit holes too of the same tracks. I started DJing in the late 80's. I knew nothing of key, but I knew what sounded good together, and I knew the tracks that even if the same BPM, sounded like a cat fight. There are mixes I do to this date after 30 years that sound amazing together, which according to Camelot are a no go. So I am a big believer in trust your ears. Key detection can be a tool to confirm tracks that could go well together, but don't think a mix won't work because the Camelot wheel says no, trust your ears.
Thanks for sharing! Funny thing is I learnt on vinyl so always went by ear, but unfortunately unlearnt it during the digital age
Your best knowing your music inside out.
If you use all 4 rules, it become much more easy.
+/- 2 stay in same letter
+7 stay in same letter
-3 change letter
+/- 1 both letters
Up the wheel for uplifting and down for more deep dramatic feeling
I always pick my song first, then put them quick together, like my ear think it will work, then go in rekordbox and rework it with camelot. Works evertime for smoothe harmonic beatmixing
That’s why I decided to use stems in my DJ-sets! With only acapella or/and drums playing I can mix tracks that don’t match in key.
vocals do have a key but drums are a bit easier .Of course you can change the key of a track in software these days.
Stems are worst ! 😂
Totally agree on this one; coming from vinyl, I never thought about key mixing. You just knew from practice what tracks worked together or didn't.
An easy workaround today is to loop the track as it's on the outro without any melody and then you can mix in any track you want.
Keep up the great content!
I was waiting to see what all the fancy scenery was for, and it wasn't a gimmick! It was actually a visual metaphor for the purpose of the video. Hats off to you
thanks chris - some great insights. i only started to dj a couple of years ago in my early-50's, but from the late 80's i've been going to all the big parties in sydney as well as the clubs. it wasn't until learning to dj that i even heard of the concept of mixing in key - i don't ever recall stopping on the dance floor thinking, "...that mix was off-key". obviously i agree with harmonics, but there is definitely too big a leaning these days to the sanctity of the camelot wheel, and this video will help me to break free from those binds. 👍🕺
Something to add here is that changing key (a.k.a. modulation) is a technique that's used by songwriters to raise the energy level, and likewise it can be an effective tool for raising the energy level of a crowd and making your next track more impactful. The most energy raising modulations are often the ones that are slightly further away from each other on the camelot wheel.
Also, melodies don't typically use all of the notes of a key, sometimes only 1 or 2 different notes, which means they might fit in with many more keys than you'd expect without being dissonant.
Mixing without looking at key, especially at home, leads to more discovery, and deliberately trying to change the key will raise your set to new heights.
Great point about the melody! I'm going to start thinking about isolating them more in future to try new blends
Dude, that satisfying sneeze though!
🤧💨
Absolutely love your narration. I got ADHD and have to listen to the same sentence 5 times sometimes; it helps if the voice is easy on the ears!
Thanks for watching!
I got stuck in a pretty dark and endless loop of tech house tracks in D minor and F at 124 BPM. This was also during a pretty rough time in my life. I was getting played by the music........or the algorithm. Broke out of it by refusing to give up and refusing to give in. It was an incredible lesson that now, I am thankful for.
Thank you for creating and posting this. I believe it is time for another shake-up of my mixes and this has inspired me to explore the music like I did when I first began to DJ. Took more risks then and would do some incredibly creative mixing. Thank you for the inspiration, my friend!
Great video! This is a perfect example of why DJs should embrace technology as a tool but not just a solution to problems. We can't lose our humanity to technology
Pretty new to DJing, but things I listen for are: similar bassline patterns; similar melodies; acid lines - can jump between genres easily if they have acid e.g. techno, hard house, breaks; similar vocal samples - had two tracks that said "Go!".
I tried a bit of key mixing and it works sometimes, but it also made some transitions quite boring and made everything sound the same, even if the tracks individually were good.
Harmonic mixing is just another tool in the belt. But absolutely the biggest pitfall is using just harmonic mixing for smooth transitions means you're getting the same vibe for half an hour. It's great when you want two songs to sound like best friends, but it gets boring and stale real quickly.
DJing magic happens when you catch the crowd off guard and introduce something unexpected.
Very valid points Chris,
I had a phase where O was focusing too much on key mixing and added trax to a set purely because they were in the adjacent key, instead of listening if the track fitted the overall direction of the set.
Fortunately I stopped doing that. Nowadays I do pay attention to in key mixing but only on a lower priority.
It is really great when the new track fits well, builds/decreases energy and is in key.
I know exactly what you mean about the set playing you. It's like, "well I guess I have to go here now because the key matches". Great analogy.
Thanks for the video! Very nicely made and great info
Ive been coming to this realization, and i started to think i might be going crazy but glad to see this and im not crazy for thinking this
I definitely add the Camelot code for each track and I have tags using the original key, this makes it easy for me to verify that two tracks that I think sound good together or similar are complimentary. But I also love to change the tempo a few bpm instantly onto a drop, change from one key to a supposedly non complimentary key. I don’t use it EVER to search my library for recommended or complimentary tracks. I decide what I want to play next by how a track feel right, and I often use the key as added information. I do have a lot of transitions that overlap a lot, for these I usually end up with a complimentary key by ear but not always and I think we all know that you can throw key information to the wind if you creatively loop and transition outside of the main melody.
Bang on video. Perfect timing, I've just came to the same realization.
Great video! Thanks for the tips. "Never Trust Rekordbox" should be "Never Trust the Algorithm" whether it's Rekorbox, Serato, or VDJ. Trust the crowd and your ears. Know your music.
I've reached a level where I know which next track would go well and in the end I look at it and those tracks are in the same key. I'm Beginner DJ 1year
@@ranostanje2269 Good job! keep spinnin!
I have used Mixed In Key for years. But I started using it when I wasn't able to dedicate time to sort through my music and figure out what goes with what. It has helped me avoid awful key clashes when I have played out.
As a fellow youtuber; wow! This video has it all, a great theme/idea, amazing video quality, engaging edit, interesting location. Well done man I wish your channel massive success. As for the actual topic; I try to go all the way round the wheel a couple of times per set. Try to move around 1 step after a maximum of 3 tunes in each key.
Thanks! 🙏
Great Video, and pleasant to watch Thx
Totally with you on the Sub Focus & Dimension key trap. It's frustrating and makes me feel like my library consists of only about 50 songs
I hear this
+2 for small energy lifts, -5 for big change up but still go well by creating tension.
Wasn’t it +7? 😅
@@JahP0lice I can't tell if you're joking or not- but in a circle of 12, +7 is the same as -5.
Yeah, wanted to write that comment. It's a nice way to "move" rapidly in tonality without too much disonnance
and this is why most djs stink is this how u all think LOLOLOL fuck this bullshit im oldschool never ever ever ever rely on this crap ill find great music and chop it up like a real human with out these weiurd crutches at least i know why everyone sounds boring now
Finally.. logic prevails. I kept saying key mixing is way too overrated. Back in the days before computers djs didn't care about this. I keep seeing djs talking about mixed in key as the greatest thing and personally i was never impressed cause i did notice how keys on the same track would read differently in different programs
Thanks for this Chris. I have become a slave to the key. Thanks for setting me free to play what I actually want to from time to time :) 🙏
I wonder how anxious people these days would get if they were thrown in the deep end with a box of vinyl to mix.
Humans are highly adaptable 💚 look how everyone took to cdj’s , look how we went from drums in caves to full orchestra’s 😎👊
@@Skimatik_DnBthat’s evolution not adaptation bright guy
@@Joeee20 thank you for enlightening me 👍 I’m glad you could see the point I was making and had constructive feedback back 🙌 you are truly wise 👍
@@Joeee20 Actually not true. Evolution biologically changes you, where adaptation is using a tool. Fish can breathe underwater biologically but we can breathe underwater using scuba tanks.
Drum and bass DJ here--the 4A trap is so real
Wow, thanks for this vid. I felt EXACTLY like this and was getting bored mainly b/c I was being lazy. Time to push harder and further. Cheers mate!
All of these are why I have never mixed in key. Key changes add variety and harmonic interest! And when a mix just happens to be harmonic by chance, its like a bonus!
i went through a key mixing phase. eventually I decided to just start creating edits, as sometimes I would want to get a little too confident live mixing stuff that wasn't in key. I think polyrhythmic mixing became more of my thing, and remains to be so today. thanks for the vid. brought me back to a stretch of time in my life.
its not a problem if you plan your set in advance. like that you can end up playing all of the tracks you wanted to play without never getting to the later keys you were going towards.
now I know free forming a set and just playing on the fly not knowing where the mix will go is fun in its own way I agree but you can't really do that without taking a risk/drawback somewhere.
and you can't really mix out of key if you're mixing with a ton of harmonically driven tunes like liquid Drum & Bass for example as those are very dependent on key so its a case by case basis.
I mix in key to prevent any doubles that sound off key and just horrible. My only solution now has been to plan the set in advance and that kind of lets me be a bit more flexible with my transitions as I've tested them beforehand to make sure they work so I know it won't go wrong but you get the drawback of not being surprised or staying to a specific route the whole mix so it's a double edged sword. I haven't been DJing in a while though since my motivation to DJ has kind of dropped off as I've DJ'd pretty much everything I've wanted to live so there's not really much gratification for me nowadays unless I'm DJing for the the sole purpose of scratching that DJ itch.
All in all its a hard problem to solve, to mix in key or not to mix in key. Both have their upsides and downsides.
also hell yea Ed Rush & Optical - Kerbkrawler, banger Techstep track :)
Yeah I've had that one on repeat after it popped back up again on a live mix I listened to (I forget who)
@@Sterling-pound I use my friend that has perfect pitch hearing to tell me the keys of my tracks :)
I generally try and avoid playing more than two tracks in the same key as it becomes boring. Same key works well when layering two tracks together to create a mashup but otherwise good to keep changing key to maintain the interest. +2 can work well as well. Ultimately still need to use your ears but worth learning the advanced techniques on the Mixed In Key website as it will also open up more options. Finally you can’t go too percussive too often in some genres as it completely kills the dance floor energy if playing the outros unless you can hype it up with looping and FX
As a music producer and DJ, I can confidently say that mixing in key based solely on values provided by software is pointless. In modern music, key detection software is often inaccurate. This is because music producers tend to use multiple keys or borrow notes from other scales to make tracks more engaging and capture the listener’s attention. Creating a track entirely in one key often sounds monotonous.
As a producer, I frequently borrow notes from other keys or start a track in one key and transition to a more harmonic and energetic key at the drop. For example, I might begin a track in a major key with a single chord, then introduce a second chord in a minor key, creating a passage with two contrasting chords. At the drop, I might transition to a completely different harmony with eight chords, blending major and minor keys to create an exciting and dynamic sound. Many electronic music producers follow this approach. This is why the key detection feature in Rekordbox or similar software is practically useless and should be disabled.
Secondly, I believe every DJ should have some understanding of music theory. The more theory you know, the better you can create tension, energy, and flow in a track or mix set. This knowledge also allows you to seamlessly blend tracks that might initially seem incompatible, turning them into a piece of art or something truly unique. However, this requires practice, a good ear, some music theory, and even piano lessons.
Unfortunately, I know many DJs who don’t even adjust the input gain when loading a track into the mixer. They leave everything on default, which often results in sound artifacts because the track levels or layering exceed 0dB. Sometimes, one track plays louder while another is quieter. While DJing may seem simple with today’s technology and automated features, being a good DJ requires knowledge of audio engineering and music theory-not just pressing buttons.
I appreciate that you’re highlighting this aspect and showing that DJing can truly become an art form when paired with solid knowledge in music and audio engineering.
The set plays me all the time lol....just a bit of humour! On a more serious note, the value of your videos is truly unmatched.
🙏
You might try fuzzy key mixing, that is key shifting your music up or down by 1-2 semitones. In VDJ the default key match display also includes fuzzy matches in a different tone, and you can customize it to a specific key distance. That way you can choose what you want to do with many more tracks. Digital DJ tips has an article on this.
All valid points & well made. I kinda like harmonics but agree that they can trap you. It's a fun exercise to hide the key column & just mix things key blind.
Good content as always m8! Great topic too, I haven't abandoned mixing in key but I'm now def more open to matching energy and vibe while using stem separation in a pinch if melodies don't get along..
That's why I only use tools like this as a guide not as a boundary, I like to colour outside the boundary lines often
Circle of fifths is helpful when creating music on your own. But for DJ mixes I feel like it was more of a marketing thing, because you're right, so many mixes start to sound samey and lose excitement. I'll never forget when Adam Freeland dropped RATM in the middle of his breaks sets, it was crazy and blew everyones mind at the time because nobody was expecting it and it sounded oh so good.
Thank you for this! I'm a starting DJ and it felt like mixing "in key" it's some sort of rule one has to follow.
Wow what a great informative video.
I’ve been thinking a lot about mixing-in key but so used to mixing my Intros and outros that ive allways realised you don’t have to mix in key and it’s worked for me for years as I don’t tend to do more hard constant mixing where the key is more prominent I’ve been able to just use my ear and If I am of if I’m off and can soon find the right track to use ,,,,man buns and cigarettes lol whatever you mean by that jaja
"the set was playing me" is the best description ever!!!
Always mix off texture and energy✌
Ive kinda updated my key mixing method. I've found that instead of just left/right and up/down, you can also jump to the other side of the circle, and it still works well usually. Maybe Im crazy, idk
I find jumping by 2s or jumping to the other side of the wheel are both great options for the same reason; when songwriters use intentional key changes, this is often where they go. Complimentary colours.
Also worth noting that your intuition and knowledge of a song is always better than any automatic key detection; it won't pick up on options for wordplay, if there are unexpected chord or key changes in a track, or sometimes songs in totally different overall keys have moments where their chord choices line up really nicely then split away again.
+-2, +-5 and +-8 can work. but here i am still tied to the wheel...
It all works just use your ears
Great video Chris 👍 ive always found key mixing can hokd you back. Most of the ti e the song i want to play next isnt in the right key. So i just do like a break start then play the song i wanted incase it doesn't sound good. But as mentioned before, when i used to mix with vinyl it wasn't a problem 🤔
Try whistling Chris.
This works really well for me when I create my mixes
Thank You for the "inside knowledge" of in-key mixing.
❤
Like Carl Cox says" if something sound good I am mixing".
Sound of Ultimate B.A.S.E
As a DJ but also a music teacher who is classically trained I feel like I have a unique perspective on this. The Camelot wheel may emulate the Circle of 5ths somewhat but its system for key identification is fundamentally flawed. How could one find or even surmise the interval between 3B and 10B when each 5th is labeled in subsequent order numerically? I would highly recommend to anyone wanting to mix in key to learn basic music theory and the Circle of 5ths instead as for example you can discover that 3B and 10B are only a half step apart and one can easily modulate -1 or +1 to have the same tonal center. I'd say that and continue to train your ear to recognize the difference between dissonance and consonance. Just my two cents.
when i used vinyl i mainly mixed by bpm so my set could potentially go anywhere as i never bothered about harmonics until my dj software started showing key info.I also used to change things up by using gaps or shortening a track via mixing so it would end and i would could go somewhere else.Because i just had my vinyl and my ear i think my sets were a bit more lively and i set my crates with room for changes of style ,mood ,bpm and key..Its nice to have a whole bunch of tunes that i know i can mix but it can potentially get you into a creative rut .I used to set up my crates so i could jump to another section if i needed to.I am looking at doing that with my digital set up as well.
You don't have to just go up or down a step in Camelot. You can also go directly across the wheel to switch up the vibe (eg. 4A to 10A).
Hi man, I recently started performing as a dnb DJ at small parties and from the moment I bought my controller, I ignored the keys rekordbox gave me because they did not feel correct to me. Some friends told me to use keymixing but I decided to just play what sounded nice and after seeing your video, I am glad I did! Thanks for making this video, it gives me some more reasons not to start doing it too much ;)
Thanks for sharing! Carry on with what works :)
A few things:
1: always trust your ears first, as Chris mentions rekordbox and other programs can mess up, but more importantly your crowd will be listening with their ears and not looking over your cdjs or computer. If it sounds good it is good.
2) playlists: I like to categorize my music by subgenre aesthetics: eg in DnB there’s liquid, techstep, jungle, and many more, a lot of those sub genres are known but I would actually focus on making your own distinctions that may not be super well known and categorize based on those as well. It will help refine your style.
3 key dominance: in styles of bass music like dnb, dubstep, garage and others you’ll find a lot of F, Fm, Em, Am and a few others because you have a psychoacoustic “sweet spot” where the sub bass is both audible and provides that sweet pressure that makes a dancefloor go off. I find that a supermajority of tracks in those genres are in these keys, but that said I cherish tracks in other keys as it allows for movement. If you find yourself halfway through a set only playing tracks in Fm or 4A make a conscious effort to move.
4 in long blends: harmonious keys are super important here. I’m talking double drops in bass music or in techno and house your long 2,3,4 deck blends. Even stuff without a lot of “melody” still tend to be written in key. If you do these long blends and they are dissonant it tends to hurt the dancefloor experience, if you have some dissonance for 16,48 bars in a transition and then completely pull out the last track then it is a useful device as this video describes. But for longer and more complex blends I find it doesn’t work
Never had these problems spinning vinyl back in the day. People put too much attention on over complicating things making music nowadays and letting technology think for you is one of the problems. I was relying too much on it at one point. I literally use about 5 plugins as an example whereas i used to put all the latest plugins on everything when it wasn't needed! Keep things simple, and your results will show.
You made a lot of good observations, particularly that the Camelot system is only a guide that can be helpful, especially to people who don't have a solid basis of music theory. It does not dictate all the best choices for mixing in and out of tracks. You also mentioned an important detail which is that it matters much less when mixing over sections of track that are more percussive than melodic. I learned to DJ with trance which is considerably more melodic than most styles of dancefloor music. Harmonic mixing is more crucial, and in my opinion quite necessary about 95% of the time.
When I learned, DJ software did not have features that automatically identified the keys, so learning by ear was necessary. I'm not sure if Recordbox's system will only recommend tracks that are adjacent to each other on the Camelot wheel. But I was taught that there were other options available to you and it was encouraged to experiment. I would jump forward or backwards by two numbers (8A/Amin to 10A/Bmin), go from the major to its corresponding minor (10B/Dmaj to 7A/Dmin) or go seven forward to bring the mix up by just a semitone (2A/D#min to 9A/Emin). The only move that was truly discouraged was going from one side of the wheel to the exact opposite, like 9A to 3A.
But as you mention, some use of dissonance can go a long way. Like any rule of thumb, it's not going to be your solution in every situation. So learning when is best to follow the rules of harmonic mixing and when to break them is how you learn to break free of a rigid mindset and find your own rhythm.
If you know music theory well, you know that using the Camelot Wheel is indeed quite restrictive. There are lots of options for each key outside of the circle of fifths. Moving in minor thirds, for example, is one way to both create some tension and release but also have the tracks sound good together (in most cases). You just have to be intentional about how you mix the lows and mids. I almost never want the bass line to stop, it just ruins the energy in most cases, so mixing the tracks when there are no melodic elements (including the bass) is something I try and avoid if at all possible. However, sometimes it can help "cool things off" for a moment so long as what is playing isn't just a basic drum beat. Learning music theory to a level where it is extremely useful in DJing really isn't that much work. Overall, electronic music is very simple harmonically, so you don't need an enormous amount of knowledge. Just the basics. It's much easier to learn than beat matching vinyl, so it should just be something DJs know.
Thanks for yet another great content video Chris. Happy New Year my guy.
What country are you in by the way?
This was in Austria!
I work at a nightclub in NYC with 25+ year veteran DJs. None of them ever worry about mixing in key, it's all about knowing your tunes and what the crowd wants to hear. We have new DJs that beat match perfectly and mix in cue and they rarely get the floor moving.
Problem 6 : if you cut bass from a track (for example, on a track with vocal that you just want to use as an acapella) you definitely change the key of it. Nice video by the way. DJ community needed to hear this !
Great video!
Even though I used Mixed In Key, I still verify all my tracks one by one by ear and a piano app. I’m usually playing a musical instrument with my sets.
This is the gold standard for sure. What instrument do you play?
Funny enough, I just had a gig where I only had 15 min left and I was trying to get to one of my favorites but the key was too far off. Kinda quick jumped through some tracks in between to get there, instead of getting creative and trying to mix it in right away.
Despite me being already aware fair a few tracks don't mix well irrespective of what mixed in key analyzed.
Got so used to mixing in key that I limited myself. I used to actually not care that much about the displayed key and just mixed by ear. Got to reliant. Great points mate.
Strange, it took years to discover this. I tried keymixing for 1 hour to conclude it is a trap, never used it again.
really great vid
Love this video! My input. First of all, you can venture out of traffic light and experiment, like this individual mentioned. Also, use key sync! Match the key of current song to song you're going into
Also, you can end a song at the end of a section, echo/reverb out, and start a new one in a totaly different key, a whole new dimension. And then start key mixing there! No more stale mixes. Ya'al are welcome.
And don't even get me started on BPM switching, OMG so much fun
128 into 172?
Great! Sync track, and slowly pick up tempo during buildup, hitting 172 at the drop. Vibez
I was exposed to Key in music at my first regular gig where the house DJ had all his vinyl sleeves marked with BPM and Key. BPM of course was essential, key I knew little about. I should say that this was a "Boys Nite Out" DJ, a Billboard reporter and all-around professional. A lot of the music was melodic, vocal disco and high energy so Key was very important to his sets. I passed on learning too much about it and wrote it off as above my pay grade. Flash forward 35 years and Rekordbox Key Mixing has really improved my sets, or at least my homework in putting my sets together. It also seems to help me choose when I'm drifting and searching for the next song or next phase of my set. I think it's useful but I don't think I play out enough (DM for bookings please!) to be caught in any whirlpool of key mixing. One of my good DJ friends is always giving me grief about using it at all - he plays a lot of house, afro-house and what I'd call high-energy dance. I sometimes think his sets could be a little more melodic, but he gets the crowd going just fine so who knows?
I normally mix in key and if I wanna change up, I do a hard cut to a different key, it works every time
me and my friends started DJing since mid 80s, never had what so-called mix in keys. We just picked whatever we wanted to mix next, no bother with the keys. You are absolutely right, we used to mix outro with intro, there s no key with the beats without any instruments. Keys are only matter when you do mashup like blend in a acapella with another song with instrumental.
Steps for DJing in the late 80s and 90s..
1. Buy a Vinyl
2. Buy Masking Tape
3. Stick a bar of tape at the top of the cover of the vinyl
4. Write the title on the masking tape
5. Set the pitch at 0 and count the bpm for 60 seconds
6. Redo step 5 for 30 seconds and multiply by 2 to confirm bpm
7. Redo step 5 and 6 until confirmation of the bpm
8. Write the bpm on the masking tape
9. Get all the songs with similar bpm
10. Try each of them with the new vinyl you just bought
11. Know wich one fits with it
12. Repeat step 9, 10 & 11 over and over
Key wasn't a thing since the beginnings and won't ever be a burden for DJs as long as DJs are Djs. Understanding is a plus, but not a necessity!
I REALLY HEAR WHAT YOU RE SAYING IT OFTEN HAPPENS TO ME when playing more melodic... groovy tracks with more drums are easier to mix though by changing key!!!
+/- 6 in camelot to make a big shift while still playing harmonically. ;)
I teach mixing harmonically as a framework, but you should always play the right song for the moment, regardless of convention.
Key detection should be an assistive tool not a crutch or limitation. Just like genre or year meta tagging, waveform coloration, etc.
+/- 1,2,6, a/b are all harmonically aligned camelot movements btw. But even this is assuming the key detection is accurate or the songs dont shift scales or keys.
Track knowledge, and ear should always be first. Meta tags and visual information is just meant to aide and enhance this, not replace it.
Look at hip hop dj'ing where mixing based on wordplay or a bass or drum rhythm is common, not long blends.
I have dealt with the topic again and again and it has been successfully ignored every time I hang up
Key is like 10th on my list of things to consider when selecting tracks, but it's definitely part of deciding *how* I will mix them, like how much melodic sections might overlap.
Even then, using your ears is always number 1. If it sounds good it's good, even if the software says WRONG!
Other thing to remember is no matter how accurate the software is, they don't understand tracks with modal interchange, that use notes from other keys for brief moments or play complex chords.
I learnt to mix on vinyl years ago and therefore practice what goes with what rather than going by key, which was a new concept to me when I started with Rekordbox. Helpful to use it but I don't rely on it and am not bound by it.
Just using the Camelot wheel is the problem. A software just telling you +1 or -1 is never going to be as good as understanding some of the more complex relationships between keys. I never use the Camelot numbers but instead always display the actually keys. And only use the key suggestion function sparingly.
I also play drum and bass, but literally design sets to go around “the wheel” with lots of fun little diversions. You can’t just blindly trust the Camelot wheel.
When I was in Brno this summer, I jammed on saxophone with a house DJ who used the Camelot key wheel. Trouble is, the system is lousy for modes other than major or Aeolian minor. A track in G Dorian, for example, might be listed as F major! This created a huge source of confusion for me, and I ended up just having to do everything by ear.
Great point about the modes
@ReallyChrisM House music in particular uses a lot of Dorian and Mixolydian, due to the jazz, funk and disco influence
The thing with dnb (and sub heavy music in general, like dubstep/trap) is that most of it is produce in the same key, just because that's where the sub is the more effective, so even if you play without looking at the key you can end up with a mix full of 4A (with some exception of course).
With key mixing, what I tend to do now, is to just use it as an information, like if a mix 2 track that aren't in key, it will not stop me from doing it if I think it's the right choice, but the key information will just tell me that I need to be carefull with that (kind of like I would put "vocal" or "bpm change" in the track info, so I know what to expect but don't use it as a "do or don't" info :)
Hi Chris, never thought you would come to Salzburg, if you‘re still here and fancy a coffee and a chat about D&B, music or whatsoever just let me know. Greetings from Salzburg 😁
Was just a quick break unfortunately, lovely city!
@ 😁 hope you enjoyed your stay, all the best. Regarding your request about how we do about beeing stuck within a musical tunnel- for me, also comming from the vinyl era, I love the oportunity to sort my digital playlists by key, along your great input about the colour scheme, as well as tags, but in recent times I find my self more often to break up the strickt idea about mixing in key. Not to talk about when I‘m back at my 1210s.
Serato has bpm and key but i think of them as a rough guide .Keep using your ears boys and girls
I've always been strictly against playing by key when playing in clubs/festifals. It's about the unexpected, catching the corwd with every track based on how the crowd is doing. You'll hardly achieve this by playing in key, since it just appears too smooth, no matter how you mix it. It just sounds like it's been a switch in the same song. But playing in key also has its right to stay for example when playing in bars and just want a smooth, ongoing groove. So I guess, it depends what you want to achieve, whether you're going to mix in key or by feeling.
Been DJing for 22+ years.. Never once given a sh1t about key.. I mix house, I mix drums/kicks.. All this key nonsense is way too much effort
I just realized this the other day. I love harmonic mixing and it's the key to mini-mashups, but i took note of my tendency to browse for numbers rather than vibe. i'm considering hiding this info for a bit. The same goes for BPMs - i am learning creative ways to make huge BPM jumps. thanks for speaking to exactly where i'm at
I use Traktor and its key suggestions. I too sometimes get trapped by choosing songs by key. But even if the two songs have the same key, they might not have the same energy, so sometimes I end up choosing one that has some sort of continuity in energy level, to keep things moving in a nice flow. Also, there are times when a sudden change in feel is good, it might take energy to a new level or take you out of monotony.
What is the name of the app you're using to teach yourself how to play the piano?
Simply piano
@@ReallyChrisM Thanks man :)
I learnt with vinyl so key wasn't an issue, just used my ears for what tracks sound good mixed together. Also Technics 1200's don't have master tempo like cdj's so you are going to change pitch/tone when matching BPM's anyway. I have tried mixing in key but prefer not to as my mixes sound better to me without - more human. I find that the majority of the tracks I like & buy without looking at key tend to be within range of each other anyway. Knowing your tunes & use your human instincts/skill as much as possible is the best advice I can give. Dj tech has evolved massively to the point where it can track select & mix automatically but the more of these tools you use, the more your mixes will sound generic & boring.
Learning basic DJ skills have taught me (through listening to their work more closely) that most club DJ's completely ignore most of the "rules". Some of the most popular DJ's at the local clubs simply play songs that people want to hear, transitions be damned. Like half of their sets are absolute train wrecks but the reality is, especially when you get past 11:PM and the drinks are set in, no one cares. So the rare chances I get to play, I simply do the best I can with song selection and get the "vibe" right, but don't worry too much about anything else.
I've been DJ'ing for 20 years and have never used key-mixing. I play internationally on routine basis and consider myself a professional.
I do hate when two different keys clash in a mix and do whatever is needed to avoid that. There are so many other aspects to consider that are more important than key. The rhythmic pattern, the intensity level, the structure of the songs - all three of which I'd characterize as "flow". Playing two tracks that are inte the same key and are also in "flow" is the best of feeling, but "flow" is simply more important than the same key.
Profound statement. Is the set playing you or you playing the set. I’ve been djaying for over 40 years and have found myself trapped in the Camelot circle. I listened to older mixes before Camelot and they still have the energy and vibe. So what you know, feel and hear
Your biggest problem is that you let software suggest what to play. You gotta know your tunes and play what you as a dj like, and think will go well at that moment. It's the crowd that dictates your selections. I've played every key in my collection. And I know every track in my collection, and what tracks that will mix into them. Listen to the music, feel the crowd, and NEVER play a track you don't know. I mix by ear, mostly harmonically, and I have to say MIK is the most accurate software out there. I use it to write tags to my music the way I like it tagged. Also, I would suggest looking into 'fuzzy mixing', a system where you can mix any two tracks, and never have to worry about not being able to play any track you want.