Tape measure doesn't lie, so many manufacturers now overstate the size of there boats, measured a 600 Boat, which was only 5.60m bow to transom and not even 6.00m with bowsprit. Most are now undersize.
While LOA might not matter in some circumstances, if you had a marina berth that was 8m long, the difference between 7.5m and 8.3m, changes whether the outboards are 50cm inside the posts, or 30cm outside the posts. Also if you're getting a trailer to fit a boat, a difference of 80cm might make a significant difference to trailer size or balance. Interesting topic that different manufactures are using different standards though.
Yep absolutely it matters for those reasons and tbh it should matter more for boat carrying capacity. If boats aren't actually big enough on the water, they shouldn't be over rated for what they can carry. So it's worrying that these 'extensions' directly influence load capacity ratings.
@@BaitBallin A good example of this is the Quintrex 481. Above 4.8m, rules for lifejackets change. So someone on a 4.80m boat is under different rules to someone on a 4.81m boat.
True. There should be a universal standard measurement, currently it's confusing and deceiving. There should be a listed standard hull length/width as per your description and also overall lenght/width for parking in sheds, carports, marinas etc.
yes, you are right; but it's not just boat marketing but model numbers of cars, eg. BMW 330 in the past had a 3.0l engine; now it is 2.0l engine.. :) so some people associate boat model number with it's length, but it's just a name now. of course it is very difficult for customers to compare older boat models with new boat models. like an old 34ft cruiser today compares to even 38/39ft cruisers. so you really need to look at the beam to have a better comparison. however each specification measurement is for it's purpose. LOA, LOH, LWL are all having a purpose. be it for berth sizing, transportation; capacity; handling, etc. so marketing people use the situation to their advantage - agree it is not fair, as you should have transparency... some tricks like bathing platforms, bowspirits, wider beams - they give you more room on deck which is comfort; so then you end up that a smaller water line length (LWL) boat can provide better accommodation than a bigger counterpart.. and if customer will filter it out - he/she will not consider it.. if you have a higher boat, then you will have longer hull, but could be same waterline length... there are so many combinations and situations. I was really annoyed as you cannot do quick comparison just by data sheet on cruiser boats, you need to really study hard boats you compare and model numbers are mostly can be ignored. as same boat over years could have been changing the model number/name many times going up and down (because manufactures manage their whole lineup range, so there should be "logical spaces" between their models).. I think it's a trap for first time buyers who have limited knowledge, with time I believe everybody starts noticing this issue.. :)
Yeah agree it's cars, the works. It annoys me more with boats as even when they tell the truth, they still lie. I.e maximum beam of many boats now, the sides are angled WAY out at the top, the beam at the base or transom is far far less. But anyway, yes the video is more about opening the eyes of less experienced boat owners and potential owners.
Just watched this video was really good. I just purchased a 89 flightcraft 4.75 cuddy cab with a brand new 90hp merc. it measures from bow to stern 5m on the dot. would that be a true size wondering where they got the 4.75 from.
@BaitBallin I have a haines classic 580 07mdl. It measured overall 6.07m and 5.90m from where the hull actually starts to the back of the transom. The bow is a part of the top half of the hull, so which measurement is right?
I totally agree with you. 20 years ago I was shopping for a plate alloy boat. Stacer, Stessl, Quintrex we’re on the list. I bought a Stessl 550 Bluewater. It was a true 5.5 mtr hull. Stacer and Quintrex included bow sprit and “pods” in their measurements and it showed internally, they were only 5 mtr hulls. I’ve had a Haines Signature 610 and it was small in volume, but I could forgive that because it was a great outfit and went like a scalded cat with a stern drive. Currently I have a Whittley 7.3 Sea Legend with a true hull length of 7.3 meters. Whittley now call this boat a SL26 - it’s exactly the same hull but the 26 makes people think it’s 26 feet long when in fact it’s 24.
Yep absolutely. I wouldn't care so much if these brands weren't now trying to charge us for boats that aren't that big! The current pricing for new boats is honestly pathetic and they simply aren't worth the money. Sadly even Northbank has increased their prices and I would now no longer buy one. The plate market is crazy, the boats just aren't impressive enough for the money. Unfortunately the only good deals to be had are second hand these days
@@BaitBallin I’ve had my boat 5 years now, I installed a new engine (6.2 Mercruiser same as yours) and put a new Transtyle trailer under it last year with full SS options, Seadeked the floors and neatened up what was already quite a neat boat, I get heaps of comments at the ramps at how nice it looks. It has shot up in value and to replace it for a new SL 26 is $300K - bloody ridiculous money, it’s half the price of a modest house! My mate wants to update his 14yo Reefy but same issue, new trailer boats are not worth the asking price. It’ll push people out of the trailer boat market into bigger, cheaper boats that you leave in the marina. $300K, or even $200K Will get you a very nice used Riviera 3000 or similar style boat.
Yeah man totally agree! After this boat Il almost certainly be going to a berthed boat. Costs coin to maintain but trailer boat prices are stupid. Or I'd own 2. Flybridge in marina and a smaller boat for in close work. 200k plus for a 7m boat is actually a joke and you would need rocks in your head to buy one at these prices.
Tough topic but I prefer the measurement to be accurate from nose to rear that in my opinion is a proper measure of a boat not internal layout only .Pods should count Bar crusher take it a step further though by welding a longer nose and instead of it being a 650 they call it 670 by pushing the nose further that’s cheating . Tough debate though because all boats come different and also surtees use the transom space with their bigger boats by caging around the rear . But people need to understand this before buying a boat some boats are bigger than what they claim on paper due to pod and front not being included .
Yes agree, but my points relate to hull carrying capacity also. The measurements are used to rate how many people, how much weight etc a boat can carry. Funny marketing asside..... I dunno, I'd say prefer true hull length on website AND loa, publish both
@@BaitBallin yes abit of both I agree should count . I bought a plate boat and comparing it to my 750 surtees it’s called a 6.3 but measured to 7.2 overall .I didn’t no that thinking I bought a smaller boat at the time which wasn’t the caise . Weight carrying capacity though fair call bro couldn’t agree more that’s cheating but I think the surtees is a monster when it come to carrying weight all boats are different .
The 750 is a big boat all round, the smaller models I'd say are just average for their quoted size. I.e the 750 feels big. Barcrusher 730 / 780 feel big. The smaller models feel average
I would like to see someone measure the true length of say all the popular 6m and above boats and make the list available. Manufacturers are not going to help. Length of hull in the water would be difficult but good for comparison. I will be looking at boat width also from now on. You have brought up a very interesting subject.
Yep it's been pissing me off for years . How variable boat sizes are based on the loose rules around sizing. You are right, a real guide would be great
Totally agree with your comments. The only true measurement it the good old tape measure so you can compare apples to apples. My only other comment is when are you gonna change your hat to a Caribbean one?
Hey just so you know, some asshole ran into me at 100kph.crushed my sternum, hip, spine. I have severe airway complications and can barely breathe etc. I cough, choke, and sniff all the time and I can't stop it. I have a golf ball sized growth pushing on my trachea. It sux. Basically
Yes that hull is one of their older designs (along with the 580) and one of very few that is still measured correctly. All their newer range has their length exaggerated.....
Imagine a boat with its length exaggerated using length over all (loa) and the width is also faked by angling the top of the hull outwards (not wide at water line). Boat is then rated to carry more load and people than it should, someone believes the limit, overloads, boat capsized and people die. Honestly, hope it never happens but probably will. These fake boat sizes relate directly to carrying capacities.
Totally agree mate, biggest scam to the trailer boat market. Boats grew overnight by average 350mm just so they could put the price up by 20k. Signature 602F now 640F. Haines 560 offshore now 595 offshore. They all do it and no doubt in my eyes just for the 💰💰💰 and used the loophole. There is a few exceptions like the Northbank and a few others but the majority have taken part.
Yep it's an absolute bloody stitch up!!! They grew on their websites, prices sky rocketed. But one day, one of these over rated boats will capsize and cause a tragedy.
Boat is excellent, engine not the best I'd say but like anything always comes down to price. Fuel usage for something that doesn't get used constantly isn't the biggest deal in my opinion. But condition, reliability etc would be what I'd be more worried about
@@BaitBallin yes fair enough. I just talked to the seller. There is no hour clock on the engine or stern drive. 🤦🏼♂️. No idea how much work it has done.
@@BaitBallin yeah. The trailer looks bad. It’s been painted black (nothing to look at there), he says he is selling cheap as the trailer has a cracked axle due to hitting a massive pothole. I reckon there is that much rust on the trailer it couldn’t handle a pothole. He’s wanting 20k. Seems a bit much to me. So a bad trailer, unknown high hours to an original engine. Mint hull. But most of the value is in the engine and trailer?
Tape measure doesn't lie, so many manufacturers now overstate the size of there boats, measured a 600 Boat, which was only 5.60m bow to transom and not even 6.00m with bowsprit. Most are now undersize.
Yep agreed
While LOA might not matter in some circumstances, if you had a marina berth that was 8m long, the difference between 7.5m and 8.3m, changes whether the outboards are 50cm inside the posts, or 30cm outside the posts. Also if you're getting a trailer to fit a boat, a difference of 80cm might make a significant difference to trailer size or balance. Interesting topic that different manufactures are using different standards though.
Yep absolutely it matters for those reasons and tbh it should matter more for boat carrying capacity. If boats aren't actually big enough on the water, they shouldn't be over rated for what they can carry. So it's worrying that these 'extensions' directly influence load capacity ratings.
@@BaitBallin A good example of this is the Quintrex 481.
Above 4.8m, rules for lifejackets change. So someone on a 4.80m boat is under different rules to someone on a 4.81m boat.
Absolutely! You are dead right
True. There should be a universal standard measurement, currently it's confusing and deceiving. There should be a listed standard hull length/width as per your description and also overall lenght/width for parking in sheds, carports, marinas etc.
Yep absolutely. The lack of regulation here drives me nuts.
yes, you are right; but it's not just boat marketing but model numbers of cars, eg. BMW 330 in the past had a 3.0l engine; now it is 2.0l engine.. :) so some people associate boat model number with it's length, but it's just a name now. of course it is very difficult for customers to compare older boat models with new boat models. like an old 34ft cruiser today compares to even 38/39ft cruisers. so you really need to look at the beam to have a better comparison.
however each specification measurement is for it's purpose. LOA, LOH, LWL are all having a purpose. be it for berth sizing, transportation; capacity; handling, etc. so marketing people use the situation to their advantage - agree it is not fair, as you should have transparency... some tricks like bathing platforms, bowspirits, wider beams - they give you more room on deck which is comfort; so then you end up that a smaller water line length (LWL) boat can provide better accommodation than a bigger counterpart.. and if customer will filter it out - he/she will not consider it.. if you have a higher boat, then you will have longer hull, but could be same waterline length... there are so many combinations and situations. I was really annoyed as you cannot do quick comparison just by data sheet on cruiser boats, you need to really study hard boats you compare and model numbers are mostly can be ignored. as same boat over years could have been changing the model number/name many times going up and down (because manufactures manage their whole lineup range, so there should be "logical spaces" between their models)..
I think it's a trap for first time buyers who have limited knowledge, with time I believe everybody starts noticing this issue.. :)
Yeah agree it's cars, the works. It annoys me more with boats as even when they tell the truth, they still lie. I.e maximum beam of many boats now, the sides are angled WAY out at the top, the beam at the base or transom is far far less. But anyway, yes the video is more about opening the eyes of less experienced boat owners and potential owners.
Just watched this video was really good. I just purchased a 89 flightcraft 4.75 cuddy cab with a brand new 90hp merc.
it measures from bow to stern 5m on the dot.
would that be a true size wondering where they got the 4.75 from.
Well good boat builders underestimate the size, not over estimate. Things have changed with the times. More ways to rip people off.
@BaitBallin I have a haines classic 580 07mdl. It measured overall 6.07m and 5.90m from where the hull actually starts to the back of the transom. The bow is a part of the top half of the hull, so which measurement is right?
I totally agree with you. 20 years ago I was shopping for a plate alloy boat. Stacer, Stessl, Quintrex we’re on the list. I bought a Stessl 550 Bluewater. It was a true 5.5 mtr hull. Stacer and Quintrex included bow sprit and “pods” in their measurements and it showed internally, they were only 5 mtr hulls. I’ve had a Haines Signature 610 and it was small in volume, but I could forgive that because it was a great outfit and went like a scalded cat with a stern drive. Currently I have a Whittley 7.3 Sea Legend with a true hull length of 7.3 meters. Whittley now call this boat a SL26 - it’s exactly the same hull but the 26 makes people think it’s 26 feet long when in fact it’s 24.
Yep absolutely. I wouldn't care so much if these brands weren't now trying to charge us for boats that aren't that big! The current pricing for new boats is honestly pathetic and they simply aren't worth the money. Sadly even Northbank has increased their prices and I would now no longer buy one. The plate market is crazy, the boats just aren't impressive enough for the money. Unfortunately the only good deals to be had are second hand these days
@@BaitBallin I’ve had my boat 5 years now, I installed a new engine (6.2 Mercruiser same as yours) and put a new Transtyle trailer under it last year with full SS options, Seadeked the floors and neatened up what was already quite a neat boat, I get heaps of comments at the ramps at how nice it looks. It has shot up in value and to replace it for a new SL 26 is $300K - bloody ridiculous money, it’s half the price of a modest house! My mate wants to update his 14yo Reefy but same issue, new trailer boats are not worth the asking price. It’ll push people out of the trailer boat market into bigger, cheaper boats that you leave in the marina. $300K, or even $200K Will get you a very nice used Riviera 3000 or similar style boat.
Yeah man totally agree! After this boat Il almost certainly be going to a berthed boat. Costs coin to maintain but trailer boat prices are stupid. Or I'd own 2. Flybridge in marina and a smaller boat for in close work. 200k plus for a 7m boat is actually a joke and you would need rocks in your head to buy one at these prices.
Tough topic but I prefer the measurement to be accurate from nose to rear that in my opinion is a proper measure of a boat not internal layout only .Pods should count Bar crusher take it a step further though by welding a longer nose and instead of it being a 650 they call it 670 by pushing the nose further that’s cheating .
Tough debate though because all boats come different and also surtees use the transom space with their bigger boats by caging around the rear .
But people need to understand this before buying a boat some boats are bigger than what they claim on paper due to pod and front not being included .
Yes agree, but my points relate to hull carrying capacity also. The measurements are used to rate how many people, how much weight etc a boat can carry. Funny marketing asside..... I dunno, I'd say prefer true hull length on website AND loa, publish both
@@BaitBallin yes abit of both I agree should count . I bought a plate boat and comparing it to my 750 surtees it’s called a 6.3 but measured to 7.2 overall .I didn’t no that thinking I bought a smaller boat at the time which wasn’t the caise .
Weight carrying capacity though fair call bro couldn’t agree more that’s cheating but I think the surtees is a monster when it come to carrying weight all boats are different .
The 750 is a big boat all round, the smaller models I'd say are just average for their quoted size. I.e the 750 feels big. Barcrusher 730 / 780 feel big. The smaller models feel average
buy 670 version 2 móre feet
I would like to see someone measure the true length of say all the popular 6m and above boats and make the list available. Manufacturers are not going to help. Length of hull in the water would be difficult but good for comparison. I will be looking at boat width also from now on. You have brought up a very interesting subject.
Yep it's been pissing me off for years . How variable boat sizes are based on the loose rules around sizing. You are right, a real guide would be great
@@BaitBallin I would find it difficult to start measuring a boat at a boat show or dealer I need two people to do it accurately.
Yep and they'd tell you to bugger off before you could 😅👌
Kiwi krafts are measured better than some , extremes are really bad
Yep extremes, Surtees, Stabicraft, barcrusher, Yellowfin. They are all playing this game
See, you're still wearing your Backcrusher hat, lol..😆 🤣 😂
Come on Carribean, lift your game, and please send this man a new hat 👍
Hahahha exactly!!!!!!
Totally agree with your comments. The only true measurement it the good old tape measure so you can compare apples to apples.
My only other comment is when are you gonna change your hat to a Caribbean one?
Haha yeah I'm saving up for the hat trust me. Problem is I have literally 8 or 10 of these BC hats.
Daammmm man, clear your throat, hard to watch, but true what u say
Hey just so you know, some asshole ran into me at 100kph.crushed my sternum, hip, spine. I have severe airway complications and can barely breathe etc. I cough, choke, and sniff all the time and I can't stop it. I have a golf ball sized growth pushing on my trachea.
It sux. Basically
My Haines 535 is a 535 , only 3 years old but John has stuck to real measurements for this model .
Yes that hull is one of their older designs (along with the 580) and one of very few that is still measured correctly. All their newer range has their length exaggerated.....
Imagine a boat with its length exaggerated using length over all (loa) and the width is also faked by angling the top of the hull outwards (not wide at water line). Boat is then rated to carry more load and people than it should, someone believes the limit, overloads, boat capsized and people die. Honestly, hope it never happens but probably will. These fake boat sizes relate directly to carrying capacities.
Totally agree mate, biggest scam to the trailer boat market. Boats grew overnight by average 350mm just so they could put the price up by 20k. Signature 602F now 640F. Haines 560 offshore now 595 offshore. They all do it and no doubt in my eyes just for the 💰💰💰 and used the loophole. There is a few exceptions like the Northbank and a few others but the majority have taken part.
Yep it's an absolute bloody stitch up!!! They grew on their websites, prices sky rocketed. But one day, one of these over rated boats will capsize and cause a tragedy.
wir nit fake soe buger bow biger swim plat forms lot bug boat nit sane size
Fair call, good video.
Love your old Caribbean.
Thanks man. Finally went to use it, and the rest of the crew randomly had COVID. It will happen...
Hey man. What’s your thoughts on the Haines hunter v198? Looking at one that has a 4.3 mercruiser. Are they gas guzzlers? Thanks
Boat is excellent, engine not the best I'd say but like anything always comes down to price. Fuel usage for something that doesn't get used constantly isn't the biggest deal in my opinion. But condition, reliability etc would be what I'd be more worried about
@@BaitBallin yes fair enough. I just talked to the seller. There is no hour clock on the engine or stern drive. 🤦🏼♂️. No idea how much work it has done.
Then I'd assume alot and would be wanting it cheap.
@@BaitBallin yeah. The trailer looks bad. It’s been painted black (nothing to look at there), he says he is selling cheap as the trailer has a cracked axle due to hitting a massive pothole. I reckon there is that much rust on the trailer it couldn’t handle a pothole. He’s wanting 20k. Seems a bit much to me.
So a bad trailer, unknown high hours to an original engine. Mint hull. But most of the value is in the engine and trailer?
Yep seems a bit too much tbh. That my friend is a money pit.