Otto Kernberg, Narcissistic PD - part 1 of 4
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- Опубликовано: 20 июл 2024
- Narcissistic psychopathology, a general overview and frequent complications followed by overview of psychotherapeutic approaches to these conditions.
From Bergen, Norway, 31.10.2017.
Film by Rune Fardal, Family Channel
Thank you so much for posting this! I scour RUclips in search of Otto Kernberg's, and other experts', talks on NPD, and this video is a real gem. BTW, I also love your older video where you described overt and covert narcissism in terms of different ratios between explicit and implicit self-esteems. Thank you both, Dr. Fardal and Dr. Kernberg! There are many of us, laymen, out here in the RUclips-verse that watch and learn from your research. For some of us, who have emerged from a traumatic relationship with a pathological narcissist, this information is crucial in our own psychological healing and self-discovery.
SK Couldn't agree more with your sentiments as a fellow layperson.
I'd be lying if I said I don't watch these with hopes to save my relationship, but it definitely helps the healing process to begin to understand what the hell just happened in my life
Do you have a link to the video you mentioned in your comment?
@@kkatja Here you go: ruclips.net/video/LfQZWTbEBxc/видео.html
Sam Vaknin is brilliant in providing detailed information on the subject in an astounding, deeply understandable elucidation on the subject check out his you tube channel, he often sites Kurt erg
Excellent explanation of envy and hate from the 20 minute mark with an example and three types of negative therapeutic reaction 33 minute mark. Excellent explanation of white collar crime 43 minutes mark. Very enjoyable presentation.
Great description of how a pathological narcissist can end up in charge of a major hospital at around 1.02.00. I used to work in a hospital just like that. I left.
Such an insightful lecture, thank you. I learnt so much from watching this.
Great hypothesis INdeed !
Finally putting it into words.
I'm so glad presentations like this are posted on youtube. If you are a narcissist and you can admit it, perhaps the first step is watching videos like this, they won't violate your need to be independent the same way therapy might trigger. you can heal narcissism by integrating into a community that both proves to you your non-omnipotence while also proving you your value. Align your aggression with your ideals, not others.
Narcissist (NPD) dont have such awareness. So its useless for them.
Thanks for posting this gem.
This is very interesting
I researched about NPD in 2018.
When you recognize their toxic patterns you cannot unsee it
Thank you for posting this lecture
I find this fascinating thank you for elucidating the distinction between severe malignant narcissism, and the less extreme form, non malignant.
I am so very grateful that your group are developing modeles to work with this. Your work is deeply insightful and will bring humanity forward. Thank you!
Such an enriching lecture by Dr. Kernberg. Am so happy & thankful 🙏✨
Good to hear about narcissism from the source.
22:00 Super great description of a obscure concept!
Thanks for insight, Doc. Read most of your books, good to hear your voice.
Fantastic Presentation
Omg YOU MET HIM? WOW! I love your video on Projective Identification in divorce - you SAVED MY SANITY DR. FARDAL
Theories that have taken shape in the psychoanalytic tradition correspond brilliantly to some patterns of behavioral dysfunction. I'm sure theory can help those who suffer from the classically defined personality disorders. But -- call me a narcissist -- I see danger in at least one factor in Kernberg's definition of pathological narcissism: I distrust therapists who tell patients, "Trust me, I know what your problem is and I know how to help you solve it." It strikes me as cocky in the extreme (narcissistic) to say that a patient who seeks a more dialectical, or Socratic, interaction with her therapist is demonstrating pathological narcissism. Therapists may or may not know their field well; they may or may not be good at interpreting behavior; they may or may not steer willing patients toward a better life. But how reliable is psychoanalytic theory when every doctor who gets a stab at diagnosing the same patient comes up with a different diagnosis?
Was married to a narrisist, now actually it's so SAD, from minutes I met him knew there was something off but in those days no one knew this disorder, out now and so happy and just feel sorry for him, he had a LOVELY family but nothing was enough, I lucky out of it and do feel sorry for his new victim, he was abused physical as young teen that he will never address or try and get help and make his remaining days happy, one has to step away and wish them well
No sister, you don't wish him well, by the way you should feel sorry for yourself because you fall for him in the first place. Also if haven't noticed you also have a narcisistic type of personality.
Withdrawn like the parent- envy the need to have and destroy what is good.
Amazing
Very grateful for Kernberg et al work. I believe NPD is largely inherited, caused by unchecked aggression (not self-acknowledged) that displays in a myriad of dysfunctions, and any disintegration of self is rooted in these same dysfunctions.
NPD / BPD 55:25
there is a platoon of soldiers practicing marching and other drills in the room, evidently. Hey great!
It’s so distracting. It’s like they put a mic under every chair or something
@@ange7422
Yes, it is very annoying. Since his lecture is being viewed by people on RUclips, etc., those people coming to class late should stay in the back of the room; certainly not walk in front of the camera and the speaker.
I'm more than annoyed?
When N envies is he/she on the negative or positive side of transference?
I mean paranoid or depressive
@@cameliaancacoca4013 paranoid
Do narcissists intend on making their partners violent in order to make themselves feel better?
I think so! They regulate their emotions by projecting it into you. For example, my ex wasn’t feeling good at a party then called me and said she wasn’t talking to any guys... I was like wtf I’m not tripping and she said why are you mad... I was upset that she said that. Then she hung up on me. She had low self esteem at the party... started a fight and it made her feel in control and dominate. At the beginning of the call she was really having anxiety, etc. when she got home she was on top of the world.
@@isaacsanders9203I don’t think they are fully conscious of their behaviors, rather they tend to live in an alternate reality that they mostly unconsciously craft for themselves. It’s a kind of self-perseveration.
We all create narratives about ourselves and our relationships but ours are hopefully consistent with objective reality. Narcissists create noticeably inconsistent narratives to avoid shame and other negative feelings.
For example, rather than your partner admitting to herself that she was feeling insecure she constructed a narrative that made YOU the source of her insecurity.
It’s extremely cowardly behavior as narcissists readily sacrifice other people’s wellbeing and sense of self by making unfair accusations and statements. All of this to save themselves from confronting their own weaknesses.
Being on the receiving end of this can be both devastating and infuriating as they are so committed to their narratives even though they are highly unrealistic, illogical and irrational.
This is probably also why they never apologize (at least not sincerely) because saying sorry would involve challenging their fragile ego. They simply can’t tolerate confronting weaknesses in themselves without feeling overwhelming rejection & shame.
These are all interesting from Dr. Kernberg, but I have not heard the two specific elements of psychopathology Freud attributes to these people. Maybe they are discussed later.
And, what about relation to schizophrenia? Freud talked about narcissistic regression in paraphrenia, meaning narcissists are eligible for schizophrenia.
Recently, schizophrenia has diverted from PDs. I'm NOT a psych, so don't quote me... but I believe it has something to do with the fact that schizophrenia develops independent of external influence, whereas PDs are developed, albeit sometimes even before birth, in response to external factors
@@brianlund7862 @Brian Lund something in between. Psychosis can be both, organic predisposition and/or early trauma. PDs are mainly trauma based with little genetic contribution
@@brianlund7862Schizophrenia has a strong genetic component, but it is also caused by trauma. Same with PDs, it’s very uncommon for a person to have a PD, yet nobody else in the immediate family has a PD. But the genetic component alone isn’t enough, it’s the trauma which triggers it. This is how one sibling could have a PD while the other does not.
I didn’t know Schizophrenia was a personality disorder? When was this? I know Schizotypal Personality Disorders is closely related, it’s very close to being Schizophrenia, but not quite. Although, a fairly large percentage (30ish %) of those who have Schizotypal PD, eventually have full onset Schizophrenia.
I see what they mean by saying Narcissists are schizophrenic. Sort of. Schizophrenics confuse internal objects for external. So, if they have racing thoughts, this could manifest as voices right outside the ears. I’d also like to see research done about the impact of white noise on these auditory hallucinations, because I’ve experienced this myself. The AC kicks on, white noise, and I hear voices and demons growling in the walls. It’s bizarre. Or loud banging, but anyway.
Narcissists, on the other hand, confuse external objects for internal objects. They live in a perpetual fantasy world, everything is inside of their head. When they interact with people, they interact with the internal representations of these people. These internal representations can act and speak on their own accord, usually in way which aggrandizes the Narcissist, so when they don’t act accordingly in the real world, this causes a great deal of confusion and frustration.
Especially in romantic relationships, this is at a higher intensity. The Narcissist idealizes the internal object which represents the partner. In fact, this internal object has a life of its own, it’s more of a phantasm, a ghost which follows the Narcissist around. They communicate and interact, literally as if she’s right there.
So, I can easily see how this can be likened to Schizophrenia, but instead of hallucinations, it’s an all pervasive, fantasy. Fantasy, primitive defense mechanisms and cognitive distortions. The Narcissist lives in the real world just as much as a Schizophrenic. The Narcissist’s perception of people is equally as distorted.
Intolerable constructive criticism 38:04
Chronic traumas 36:40
1:01:00
Self esteem 52:53
Where do you draw the line between personality disorder, in all its variations and dimension, and genius?
what are peoples thoughts on the comment that shame becomes guilt?
1:08:45
Not a natural born speaker, but interesting content
I respect that as a Jewish person you treat Psychopathic Narcs which the Nazis Were. I couldnt do it.
ehm ehm ehm ehm this is not listenable
His verbal gaffs and the idiosyncrasies are sooo fucking weird. What the FUCK. AHAHHAHAAA
Are you speaking about the gentleman giving the lecture? If so, maybe he reveales smth about you that you don't like to hear. Or maybe you are one of those he describes at 25:00mins who cannot listen and learn and have to rather put other down out of envy and contempt.
The wheezing type sounds he makes during pause makes it hard to listen to
@@abstract3213 Or maybe not everything is so pathologized and complicated, and certain sounds are hard to listen to, especially when you're autistic and have sensory processing disorder.
Just because someone is elite in their field, doesn't mean they are beyond error, or having a speaking voice that sounds annoying. I've been studying psychology for many years. It is a huge passion, and Kernberg is a huge inspiration to me, as he has coined many terms and therapeutic processes in the area of Cluster B personality disorders.
I don't have an issue with anything he is saying.
Maybe you are the one with the issue, and you lack nuance in the way that you think, leading you to assume someone's entire character and what they are willing to listen to and accept, simply because they think a certain verbal gaffe is hard to hear, yeah? Maybe you're a pseudo sophist, that prides yourself on making shallow assessments of people's character, based on RUclips comments. Maybe you're a narcissist? Who could ever know.
@@kaylacarpenter272 what a "self-awareness", you did exactly that in your comment what you criticised me for. And wrote 2km long comment because your ego got butthurt. Anyways it is you who started with a comment that is showing disrespect towards the lecturer, even if you express your opinion of not liking someone or smth, you can still be respectful.
@@abstract3213 No, it's called defending one's honor. There is no disrespect towards the lecturer for recognizing some very intense idiosyncrasies, that make him hard to listen to. It's also worth noting, that I've heard this person speak many times, and this is not how he usually speaks.
And I will be every ounce of "disrespectful" to you, for insinuating that being annoyed with someone on an auditory level, has nothing to do with my unwillingness to learn, or hear the speaker, and says something about my deeper character.
Armchair psychoanalysis on RUclips is not a useful, or welcome behavior, so don't expect people to appreciate you, or respect you thereafter.