i feel like a factor for that is maybe that a large portion of kallmekris' audience was into booktok likke essentially it is her own audience that got offended and i say that bc she lost a lot of followers after that video meanwhile the male creators you talk about might have a history of shitting on women so their audience is like, there for that. That being said i agree with you we need to call out misogynistic men too
@rayareadzzzz it wasnt even rage bait, its women like you that embarass the rest of us who wnana read book, since when did dark romance become abuse and rape
Her video, in my option, did not come across as mean at all. It didn’t appear to be for clout. She genuinely appeared concerned with some of the things people are reading, and I am too. Now that’s not to say you can’t read these dark romances or smutty romances. Be my guest, I’ll never stop you. But there’s a line
I agree that the crux of the problem is focusing your criticism on readers rather than on the books themselves. I don't think we can make blanket statements about what certain groups of readers are like. But I think it's very different to criticize, say, the way that extreme kinks are presented in dark romance without sufficient context or respect and the potential for this to impact the way that the general public perceives the real-life kink community, or the potential for this to have a negative impact on readers' own perceptions of sexuality especially if they are very young.
I think that many readers feel some kind of inferiority when they don't read smut. It doesn't mean that the dark romance and romantasy genres aren't problematic but the way people are handling this is not the right way. Criticism is good but there is a fine line to hate and the shaming starts.
exactly! i don’t think we can have productive conversations about the problematic parts of the community if we’re blanket shaming people for enjoying romance and smut in the first place. it shuts down any conversation whether it be about specific books and their content or bad behavior of those within the community.
Criticise the problematic books, not the people reading them. If she was really interested, she would understand the complexities in why women read these kinds of books, shaming doesnt bring anything; just war. I personally don't like dark romances because of the common themes such as SA, stalking and inc*st; I find it rather disturbing (past traumas tm), but that's just me. I'm not going out here shaming the women, I'm actually interested in what makes this appealing to some women, aka, understanding another's perspective, not whatever she's doing
After watching the video for myself, I’m genuinely baffled. Where did she shame the readers? At multiple points of time she clarified she meant no harm and was literally discussing the books and their content and how it doesn’t mesh well with her. She literally stated that everything in these books are fine because it’s fiction, and as long as it’s not irl then it’s okay.
I personally also think that there is a big difference between critiquing artwork and just stating problematic things in the book. Fantasy is also so seperate from reality and what people may find appealing in fiction has no bearing on how they actually behave.
right? for some reason no one goes around worrying that fans of thriller and horror will turn into serial killers overnight because they read too many books in the genre
@@rayareadzzzz I think the problem why dark romance gets so much hate and criticism in comparison to these genres is because dark romance has a tendency to glorify and make the weird themes of Sexual Assault, incest, etc look romantic. Most thrillers and horrors are usually self aware of those themes and don't really shy away from hiding the fact that they're morally wrong, which dark romance as evident often doesn't do.
@ifadha6519 since the discussion around kallmekris started, I have seen some videos from dark romance readers who read books with the exact themes you've listed and now I think I get it. those things can be part of fiction, but they are also a common reality and a lot of dark romance readers are people who have gone through them and now use reading or writing as a way to reclaim that part of themselves that was taken. personally, I don't think I would ever read books that contain sexual assault, but I understand the idea of using fiction (something that you can easily stop consuming) as a form of therapy. plus, a lot of therapists/psychologists recommend it as well
I used to be in the mind of “dark romance is misogynistic and bad” but after hearing from (primarily women) readers why they like the books, it’s more complicated. I feel like people are used to seeing violence and bad things happen in other genres (Kris literally has ASOIAF on her shelf which from what I’ve heard has inc*st and incredibly disturbing SA scenes), but they’re taken aback because romance is supposed to be “wholesome” or whatever. This is honestly just the violence in videos games debate recycled. Liking to kill people in video games doesn’t make you want to go kill people irl and fantasizing about things in fiction doesn’t make you want those things to happen to you irl.
@@ll2323it depends on how violence is portrayed. The problem with dark romance is it often romanticizes abuse, which shouldn't be romantic at all unless it's consentual non consent. I used to think too that violence in fiction is good. The thing is it depends on the kind of violence. If it's a video game against zombies or made up military scenarios I doubt people are willing to reenact these scenes as it's very much labelled as fiction. There have been for example people who tried to reenact GTA5 scenes (I'm not saying the game is bad because it's such a ridiculous game, you can't even call it relaistic) in real life imitating the game. I'm fairly certain some people have been mislead into staying with an abuser and accept abuse from bad romance books. Listen I write dark romance in my free time aswell. The difference is I make it clear who the bad guy is and we're not rooting for him. The girl was assaulted by that guy? He's clearly labelled as the villain, and she's not going to suddently be into it. That guy is an abusive piece of husband? He's clearly evil and deserves to go to jail. She's not staying in the same way they do in these dark romance books.
I also think that people are quick to say people who read dark romance are desensitized and need help but will also ignore all the other places that they themselves are desensitized. Like, Kris creates videos monetizing off of true crime and while I’m not sure how she talks about it now I remember watching one of her first videos and not liking the way that she talked about the crimes. Focusing so much on the killers and less on the victims. I also watched some of her JonBenét Ramsey one and feeling like she put minimal effort into the research of it.
Not clout chasing, just not being aware that not everyone is going to be as triggered by that as she was because either some people find reading about it as survivors is almost healing for them or it has never happened to them so they are able to watch it from a ‘this is fiction, not reality’ lens. There are trigger warnings in dark romance for a reason. If you still proceed to read it and get triggered that’s on you. I mean I’m black and I’ve seen white creators read books with a lot of micro aggressions and they don’t even peep that that’s what that was becuase.. what do you know? They aren’t black. I can’t be mad at them for that.
I used to feel that way but now I kind of feel like it’s only problematic if you aren’t mature enough to know what healthy relationships and boundaries are. While the mainstream dark romances aren’t anything I’ve enjoyed I have had a few sneak into my mystery thriller books that I actually did end up enjoying. The thing is, I know they’re unhealthy and I could literally break that down for you. I think that’s what matters in the end.
i hate dark romance but i would never shame anyone for reading it and she literally did shame people for being into it, i think people need to view it more like how one would view like a kink subculture or someshit i could say how many fetishes/kinks that i dont understand and seem weird/gross to me (or even problematic)but i would never shame anyone into it bc its not rly my business >_>
@@SugarBabyProductionsI agree with you 100% Some that read those types of books will seek out that type of relationship and that isn’t good at all. Lol.
I've been reading romance and erotica for more than 10 years and this kind of discourse always exited. It's like a moral panic; a panic that adult women are too dumb to understand what is real and what it's fantasy. We know that in real life men it's not like the books (but should), we know that toxic relationship is bad, we know that a perfect relationship like Emily Henry writes is unreal. We understand that romance books ARE FANTASY. You, hater romance people, need to understand as well.
Kris disappointed me. I get why it wouldn't be her thing as she's openly talked about being assaulted in her life, but it was clearly such a cash-grab and came from a judgmental mindset. Dark Romance isn't my thing. I personally do find it ridiculous and misogynistic, but I'm not going to shame someone for liking it. Everyone has a thing that tickles their fancy, so as an author, no, I don't write it, but to literally degrade an entire group of people who do? Maybe she's the one who needs to take a breath and touch some grass because clearly what other people are doing with their time and money is bugging her.
I don’t even use TikTok since it tends to generate so much drama. Even on my own RUclips channel I try not to talk too much about the books I don’t like just to avoid the extra drama. Once I give my opinion I feel like it’s over and done with and I never have to talk about it again.
Crazy idea. People have opinions we don't agree with. There's this thing called freedom of speech. But this isn't okay to start cussing her out and trash her when several creators have also critiqued this genre of topic.
"I'm not shaming anyone" but also saying "go touch grass if you like this" is WILD. I saw the original video about an hour after she posted it. To see that she changed it instead of actually addressing anything was disappointing. Taking the harsh comments out isn't bad in itself, but when you do it to avoid getting hate instead of addressing what you said, that's where I have a problem with it.
No one cares what you do or do not have a problem with!! It's crazy that you think your opinion matters, you don't know anything, or anyone involved in this like what on earth makes you think you having a problem with something someone you've never met said to a bunch of people you know nothing about matters to anyone other than you??? Grow up kid 😂😂
@@lonsalerno2441 The thing is, their opinion obviously matters. If it didn’t, along with everyone else who has a problem with what she said, then it wouldn’t affecting the creators platform the way that it is.
I’m not a fan of dark romance but I do feel like the trend is just another slam dunk of being able to laugh at what women like. Meanwhile men are chronic corn addicts 🤨 remind me of who is gross, again? Often multiple things are true (the books are kinda gross but we don’t need to make fun of readers themselves or even assume anything being read is inherently a reflection of moral quality)
@ How many men and women consume trafficking content? You must live under a rock and have never talked to the opposite sex before. Only fringe people consume that kind of stuff on both sides. Women are not immune from consuming it. And smut is more graphic than a lot of corn. Just because they're words doesn't minimize anything, it's still not for children, and it can be very depraved and disgusting as well with bestiality, nevermind the overdramatization of any action: the very thing that you think you're concerned about in corn, I can guarantee that it happens a million times worse in the average woman's consumption of books/manga. Because we ARE talking about averages here, you bringing up a fringe category isn't correct. The things written down are literally impossible in the real world, so of course they're extremities. Don't get me started on how women who read smut compulsively are the most likely to be single or have very fleeting relationships. You have an unrealistic idea of men, and I can see that.
I agree with Kris on her dark romance take. But smut books are like movies with sex. A good story can coexist with smut. If you’re gonna criticize books that we read, criticize the movies that practically have just as much “smut”.
I just think she was condescending about it. I genuinely think that the mainstream booktok dark romance books are terrible and harmful but her video just felt mean.
I don't shame people for liking romance. I shame people for finding toxic shit sexy and readable. Twilight. Ascended Astarion (Baldur's Gate 3). Fifty Shades of Grey. All of which feature disgusting and abusive male leads. Yes, I WILL shame the hell out of people for liking that. But, regular smut and romance? Nah. Normal romance novels aren't toxic. I don't read them because they aren't my thing, but people like what they like.
You said one sentence which is the essence of what she did - rage bait brings money. The more aggressive someone is in a "personal opinion" video, the more aggressive response it gets, which equals money. To say that people need therapy is not only an insult but bullying. Is one to not like a certain genre, is a very different thing to generalize and minimize people and their preferences. Just let the people read whatever they want. Of course, is all right to bring problems into a certain discussion, but not in this way. Even if she hadn't a bad intention, but contrary, the delivery was very bad. Yes, we have big problems in the world of books, from the industry to the social media platforms, even with authors or influencers. But balance and a real discussion is what will resolve some issues, not insults and judgments. And to return to the beginning, balance does not bring money. They don't care about how others can feel, their cushion is soft. Is all that matters.
I don't see or understand why ppl are coming after kallmekris.... she gave her opinion on the books she read.... just lime other wo.e have done.... it's just that her opinion was not the same she's a horrible person? wtf why cant she voice how she feels about these books?
She can. That’s just how the internet works especially in this day and age. If people don’t agree, they’re going to tell you that. It’s up to the creator to stay clear or know that that is a possibility. 🤷🏾♀️
The people saying "fvck you" to people who don't like smvt, and calling what they enjoy "boring" - really aren't any better. Nor is equivocating what Kris said to literal r*pists. Sure we can criticise what Kris said as being me,an spirited - and that even though she took some of those more off colour joke out, she didn't address it. But none of it was really that bad nor directly misog,ynistic. I know there are critiques of this fuvor around "smvt" in books having ties in misog,yny - which is an important conversation, but I don't think that's what's happening here (I would agree it's just for clicks). And there are also critiques about overconsumption in "booktok", and lazy writing, with little editing, that publishers are now pushing. And yeah, I'm personally pretty annoyed that my favourite genre - fantasy - is currently pretty overrun with smvt at the minute, and I would like to see some new stuff that isn't just romance with some magic in the background in 2025. But kris wasn't getting into either of those things, she was just joking -- which is probably where part of the problem is. None of it gives people an excuse to now dogpile her, and say some of this pretty h0rendous stuff back to her. (I'm also doubtful she deleted the comment of the first woman - i imagine kris is amoung the creators who have the more strict censoring (which has been making youtube a nightmare tbh))
I used to sometimes watch Kris's true crime stuff until I figured out she was just copying the wikipedia articles almost beat for beat (and maybe all true crime channels do that, but honestly she has a big enough platform and enough resources to be doing her own research imo) and I wonder how much of this was all her own opinions vs her jumping on a bandwagon and parroting common criticisms she's seen, thinking they were more popular than they were.
I feel like a lot of her content is just jumping on a bandwagon. She started doing Reddit stories because it’s popular and I feel like she only started doing true crime because it’s popular. I think her subscribers on RUclips come from her follower base on tiktok and not because she did anything new or noteworthy on RUclips.
I don’t mind smut in my books. I’m 35 and have been reading smutty fanfics and books since I was 15 so I’ve definitely developed what tropes I like and not like in that time. Sometimes people are getting back into reading and many books being recommended on booktok leans in the smutty dark romance subgenre. I’ve read many booktok recommendations and honestly with some of them I’ve read fanfics with better smut, writing, characterization, plot, and development and other books I really liked. Personally not a fan of the quite a few of the most popular authors being constantly recommended.
It’s one thing not to like a certain genre, or to criticize it. It’s another thing entirely to suggest that the people who enjoy it are mentally disturbed and require therapy. She deserved all the hate she got - don’t dish it if you can’t take it.
Didn’t meatcanyon make a similar video I haven’t heard a peep out of anyone about him I like meatcanyon but don’t like kallmekris but it’s kind of weird one gets bashed to bits and pieces and the other not? And I even tho she didn’t word it very well I thinks she had a lot of genuine points I agree with even tho I really don’t like her
Personally not a fan myself of dark romance or smut books, i used to read them when i was younger now its just hard for me to adapt to the writing style; however, the fact that so many creators make such a big fuss of it…its wild to me. Like the only reason booktok is so viral its because of them feeding into it, im not on tiktok but i keep getting these video recs on my yt feed and bruh like sure it was booming at some point and some videos on tiktok were wild with people harassing hockey players and lots of problematic things, but recently it seemed pretty quiet, just people enjoying whatever they want. I didnt see any videos shitting on wattpad and ao3 where us readers know all the wild shit started and is going down. Find new jokes honeys, if you wanna discuss with arguments the real issues with some books sure go ahead but this is just picking on a big audience personal hobby (again fucking wild people do at home whatever they want, touch some grass smh)
And props to you raya for always addressing these discussions in such a respectful manner but also insightful and thoughtful. Critical thinking is lacking on lots of platforms no offence, just riding the wave of majority’s opinions, but you always stand out. Thank you for that!
@@makedam9263 So close! saying children should not be exposed to smut and people should watch for pornography addictions IS NOT something you can "have an opinion" on! good night friend!
@@natewhaley5107 lol you’re so close too! You wanting to ban/censor spicy romance books because ‘the children!’ Is the dumbest take because it sets a horrible precedent for books in general. It’s a tale as old as time that they will find wild stuff anyway because it’s everywhere around them. Those books have content warnings and the age you should be to read them because they have adult scenes- yes ice breaker has two actually, on the back and in the book- so the author did her part. You cannot police what people write because that will lead to censorship and banning of something and that is a very slippery slope. Are you up for banning video games with unaliving? Are you up for banning movies and tv shows that have adult content where you can only buy it, rent it, stream it if that household doesn’t have kids? Because once there is adult content available and a person that is underage there as well as adults who it belongs to, it’s the parents/adults job to either keep it away from them or let them know it’s not appropriate for them. Not just cancel the whole thing all together. And again children are sneaky. If they are determined, they will find it! I’ve been there- Wattpad, ao3, etc. So banning spicy books with illustrated covers makes no sense unless you’re banning all adult content because we live in a real world with social media - so you even know what they could be seeing on tik tok, insta, X and don’t get me started on streaming- is just not built for kids but parents insist that they give them access to it anyway and then they become mad at what they discover. It’s for adults! Then again, if that parent took their phone away, you know what will happen? They’ll just find another way whether it’s with their friends or something else. It’s the take as old as time and you can’t shut down everything adult to coddle them it’s just not feasible. And don’t even get me started on the corn addiction. Show me that you haven’t even read a dark romance without showing me. There’s erotica then there’s dark romance. If you think dark romance is corn. Then I already know you’re coming from a place as an outsider judging the people that read it because you think your above us and you literally didn’t even take the time to understand or comprehend what your argument is even about. It’s sad and pathetic really and I’m glad the dark romance community is finally standing up for themselves. Hope this helps‼️
How is telling people to touch grass is misogynistic? She wasn’t shaming you for liking smut She just said that the content in these smut is concerning. (I’m referring to the first video)
One thing i will say though - I wouldn't necessarily call it a case of misogyny. Not every opinion and/or critique is misogynistic just because it's mostly women who happen to enjoy it. People no matter the gender can be viewed as problematic, media enjoyed by any gender can be viewed as problematic. That is not to say that it's never rooted in misogyny, it absolutely can be, i just personally don't view this discourse that way. For example, I critique harems and objectified women in some anime series (mostly isekai enjoyed primarily by men) just as much as i critique romanticizing problematic behaviour in romance and spice books (though i personally do so mostly in private, not on the internet). Both issues are worthy of critique for me, who it happens to be enjoyed by doesn't matter. I just wanted to comment my view on the misogyny rhetoric surrounding this topic in general. It would be a pity for the word to just get thrown around and potentially loose it's strong implications in the process.
her views going from millions to around 200,000 (at this time) shows that she offended A LOT of people. I agree that she absolutely needs to apologize to the creators that were originally in her video as she made them a target. she also needs to post her apology on youtube (even make the tiktok into a short idk) to make sure that she is apologizing to everyone. lots of people don't use tiktok and now, Americans won't even be able to see it after tomorrow. I'm glad that she is going to stick in her own lane from now on, but posting a video like nothing happened gives me the impression that she is not actually sorry; she just wanted a bag, like you said. she backpedaled because her tactic backfired. imo her original title + video shows how she really feels. saying at the end that she does not mean to offend anyone is like saying "don't be mad, it's just a joke" if she truly did take others experiences and opinions into account, she would have made a proper apology on RUclips where it all started. posting it on tiktok gave me the impression that she does not want to stain her youtube channel with her actions.. other influencers who mess up on youtube and go make an apology on another platform are called out for not taking true accountability, so I think she should be as well. I'm very proud of booktok, not just the creators but the viewers, for speaking out and sharing why they defend it. people were sharing their personal experiences - it's a lot harder to do that imo. she also has the game of thrones series in the backgrround of her video which should be an obvious contradiction to herself. fyi I'm not just a random hater, i had been following her on tiktok for years and was subscribed to her youtube channel and even bought two bags of her and Caleb's candy. I remember the original video coming up on my recommended and I cringed so hard. I wasn't sure if it was because of my own mentality/interests that made me feel embarrassed or becauase I knew it was a bad take. I now have confirmation that what I enjoy is normal and okay (in certain communties anyways). at least there wasn't a ukelele. now I'm gonna go to therapy, go outside and find some grass, and crack open one of my smut books
I think its telling that she didn't outright apologize for why people were upset. Also I'm curious if the video she left up for "context" is the edited version or the original.
I remember when a bunch of people from booktok were sending inappropriate messages to a 16 year old boy because he reminded them of some dark romance character or something. Or a shit ton of booktok women who lusted over wade Wilson so idk y’all are fucking weird
‘Yall’ like it’s everyone. It’s not. Some people read their dark romance in the peace and comfort of their home and keep it pushing. There’s always gonna be bad apples in everything. Sigh you’d think we’d know by now to stop generalizing and that’s the entire point of why booktokers are annoyed. The bad apples ruin it for everyone and ‘outsides’ get lost in their ‘I’m so much better than them because I don’t do what they’re doing’ to realize oh wait! Some of these people are doing too much and they’re making everyone look bad, why they gotta ruin things for everyone? But nah we’re all weird. Like people who watch horror and people who love playing video games that has unaliving and people that liked game of thrones etc etc
I personally also think that there is a big difference between critiquing artwork and just stating problematic things in the book. Fantasy is also so seperate from reality and what people may find appealing in fiction has no bearing on how they actually behave.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
Bruuuh , people say she's a misogynist, but those same people don't criticize male creators who are actually sexist and mean when it comes to booktok.
i feel like a factor for that is maybe that a large portion of kallmekris' audience was into booktok likke essentially it is her own audience that got offended and i say that bc she lost a lot of followers after that video meanwhile the male creators you talk about might have a history of shitting on women so their audience is like, there for that. That being said i agree with you we need to call out misogynistic men too
@@childofgod759 she only lost 10k and she still sits on 11.9 milion followers so i think she's fine
Plus the books themselves are pretty misogynistic too.
tbh my issue is these types of shallow ragebaity booktok videos in general, regardless of who the content creator behind them is
@rayareadzzzz it wasnt even rage bait, its women like you that embarass the rest of us who wnana read book, since when did dark romance become abuse and rape
People she said “women or men who read this….” She ain’t misogynistic
Her video, in my option, did not come across as mean at all. It didn’t appear to be for clout. She genuinely appeared concerned with some of the things people are reading, and I am too. Now that’s not to say you can’t read these dark romances or smutty romances. Be my guest, I’ll never stop you. But there’s a line
She is a SA survivor so it makes sense why she thinks it weird a bunch of women crave SA in their romance books
I agree that the crux of the problem is focusing your criticism on readers rather than on the books themselves. I don't think we can make blanket statements about what certain groups of readers are like. But I think it's very different to criticize, say, the way that extreme kinks are presented in dark romance without sufficient context or respect and the potential for this to impact the way that the general public perceives the real-life kink community, or the potential for this to have a negative impact on readers' own perceptions of sexuality especially if they are very young.
@@katiatall!! I completely agree
I think that many readers feel some kind of inferiority when they don't read smut. It doesn't mean that the dark romance and romantasy genres aren't problematic but the way people are handling this is not the right way. Criticism is good but there is a fine line to hate and the shaming starts.
i agree completely
Honestly you need to come and she was absolutley correct in everything she said
I read it and you’re wrong. Y’all take it too far lol
@@floh6153like game of thrones? Oh wait, people love that.
exactly! i don’t think we can have productive conversations about the problematic parts of the community if we’re blanket shaming people for enjoying romance and smut in the first place. it shuts down any conversation whether it be about specific books and their content or bad behavior of those within the community.
Criticise the problematic books, not the people reading them. If she was really interested, she would understand the complexities in why women read these kinds of books, shaming doesnt bring anything; just war.
I personally don't like dark romances because of the common themes such as SA, stalking and inc*st; I find it rather disturbing (past traumas tm), but that's just me. I'm not going out here shaming the women, I'm actually interested in what makes this appealing to some women, aka, understanding another's perspective, not whatever she's doing
yes yes yes
@@katiatallthe video is unlisted and unmonitized so she probably didnt make much money of of it
So we shouldn't criticise the people buying problematic books and giving the authors money?
After watching the video for myself, I’m genuinely baffled.
Where did she shame the readers?
At multiple points of time she clarified she meant no harm and was literally discussing the books and their content and how it doesn’t mesh well with her.
She literally stated that everything in these books are fine because it’s fiction, and as long as it’s not irl then it’s okay.
@RunicRazili she didn't shame the readers at all but apparently people just wanna be mad
I personally also think that there is a big difference between critiquing artwork and just stating problematic things in the book. Fantasy is also so seperate from reality and what people may find appealing in fiction has no bearing on how they actually behave.
right? for some reason no one goes around worrying that fans of thriller and horror will turn into serial killers overnight because they read too many books in the genre
@@rayareadzzzz I think the problem why dark romance gets so much hate and criticism in comparison to these genres is because dark romance has a tendency to glorify and make the weird themes of Sexual Assault, incest, etc look romantic. Most thrillers and horrors are usually self aware of those themes and don't really shy away from hiding the fact that they're morally wrong, which dark romance as evident often doesn't do.
literally the same energy as "video games promote violence" lol
@ifadha6519 since the discussion around kallmekris started, I have seen some videos from dark romance readers who read books with the exact themes you've listed and now I think I get it. those things can be part of fiction, but they are also a common reality and a lot of dark romance readers are people who have gone through them and now use reading or writing as a way to reclaim that part of themselves that was taken. personally, I don't think I would ever read books that contain sexual assault, but I understand the idea of using fiction (something that you can easily stop consuming) as a form of therapy. plus, a lot of therapists/psychologists recommend it as well
@@itsalexispnot the same thing nigga, what you’re saying is basically the same excuse lolicons use to get away with their shit
I used to be in the mind of “dark romance is misogynistic and bad” but after hearing from (primarily women) readers why they like the books, it’s more complicated. I feel like people are used to seeing violence and bad things happen in other genres (Kris literally has ASOIAF on her shelf which from what I’ve heard has inc*st and incredibly disturbing SA scenes), but they’re taken aback because romance is supposed to be “wholesome” or whatever. This is honestly just the violence in videos games debate recycled. Liking to kill people in video games doesn’t make you want to go kill people irl and fantasizing about things in fiction doesn’t make you want those things to happen to you irl.
Cope
I don’t understand why reading about violence is no different than the majority of people who watch some type of violent movie.
@@ll2323it depends on how violence is portrayed. The problem with dark romance is it often romanticizes abuse, which shouldn't be romantic at all unless it's consentual non consent. I used to think too that violence in fiction is good. The thing is it depends on the kind of violence. If it's a video game against zombies or made up military scenarios I doubt people are willing to reenact these scenes as it's very much labelled as fiction. There have been for example people who tried to reenact GTA5 scenes (I'm not saying the game is bad because it's such a ridiculous game, you can't even call it relaistic) in real life imitating the game. I'm fairly certain some people have been mislead into staying with an abuser and accept abuse from bad romance books. Listen I write dark romance in my free time aswell. The difference is I make it clear who the bad guy is and we're not rooting for him. The girl was assaulted by that guy? He's clearly labelled as the villain, and she's not going to suddently be into it. That guy is an abusive piece of husband? He's clearly evil and deserves to go to jail. She's not staying in the same way they do in these dark romance books.
I also think that people are quick to say people who read dark romance are desensitized and need help but will also ignore all the other places that they themselves are desensitized. Like, Kris creates videos monetizing off of true crime and while I’m not sure how she talks about it now I remember watching one of her first videos and not liking the way that she talked about the crimes. Focusing so much on the killers and less on the victims. I also watched some of her JonBenét Ramsey one and feeling like she put minimal effort into the research of it.
@@SugarBabyProductions making lazy true crime videos while talking shit about dark romance is some crazy work.
SA survivor talks about how weird it is women love SA in romance books. She’s clout chasing I guess
Not clout chasing, just not being aware that not everyone is going to be as triggered by that as she was because either some people find reading about it as survivors is almost healing for them or it has never happened to them so they are able to watch it from a ‘this is fiction, not reality’ lens. There are trigger warnings in dark romance for a reason. If you still proceed to read it and get triggered that’s on you.
I mean I’m black and I’ve seen white creators read books with a lot of micro aggressions and they don’t even peep that that’s what that was becuase.. what do you know? They aren’t black. I can’t be mad at them for that.
i agree with kallmekris, tbh. dark romance IS a very problematic genre and it is extremely gross.
Read whatever you want. But STOP MARKETING IT TOWARDS TEENAGERS.
I used to feel that way but now I kind of feel like it’s only problematic if you aren’t mature enough to know what healthy relationships and boundaries are. While the mainstream dark romances aren’t anything I’ve enjoyed I have had a few sneak into my mystery thriller books that I actually did end up enjoying. The thing is, I know they’re unhealthy and I could literally break that down for you. I think that’s what matters in the end.
i hate dark romance but i would never shame anyone for reading it and she literally did shame people for being into it, i think people need to view it more like how one would view like a kink subculture or someshit i could say how many fetishes/kinks that i dont understand and seem weird/gross to me (or even problematic)but i would never shame anyone into it bc its not rly my business >_>
@@SugarBabyProductionsI agree with you 100%
Some that read those types of books will seek out that type of relationship and that isn’t good at all. Lol.
READ WHAT YOU WNT BUT KEEP UR OFFENSIVE OPINIONS TO YOURSELF DONT SHAME PEOPLE IF THEY LIKE A TRASHY BOOK
I've been reading romance and erotica for more than 10 years and this kind of discourse always exited. It's like a moral panic; a panic that adult women are too dumb to understand what is real and what it's fantasy. We know that in real life men it's not like the books (but should), we know that toxic relationship is bad, we know that a perfect relationship like Emily Henry writes is unreal. We understand that romance books ARE FANTASY. You, hater romance people, need to understand as well.
Kris disappointed me. I get why it wouldn't be her thing as she's openly talked about being assaulted in her life, but it was clearly such a cash-grab and came from a judgmental mindset. Dark Romance isn't my thing. I personally do find it ridiculous and misogynistic, but I'm not going to shame someone for liking it. Everyone has a thing that tickles their fancy, so as an author, no, I don't write it, but to literally degrade an entire group of people who do? Maybe she's the one who needs to take a breath and touch some grass because clearly what other people are doing with their time and money is bugging her.
I don’t even use TikTok since it tends to generate so much drama. Even on my own RUclips channel I try not to talk too much about the books I don’t like just to avoid the extra drama. Once I give my opinion I feel like it’s over and done with and I never have to talk about it again.
Crazy idea. People have opinions we don't agree with. There's this thing called freedom of speech. But this isn't okay to start cussing her out and trash her when several creators have also critiqued this genre of topic.
"I'm not shaming anyone" but also saying "go touch grass if you like this" is WILD.
I saw the original video about an hour after she posted it. To see that she changed it instead of actually addressing anything was disappointing. Taking the harsh comments out isn't bad in itself, but when you do it to avoid getting hate instead of addressing what you said, that's where I have a problem with it.
No one cares what you do or do not have a problem with!! It's crazy that you think your opinion matters, you don't know anything, or anyone involved in this like what on earth makes you think you having a problem with something someone you've never met said to a bunch of people you know nothing about matters to anyone other than you??? Grow up kid 😂😂
@@lonsalerno2441 The thing is, their opinion obviously matters. If it didn’t, along with everyone else who has a problem with what she said, then it wouldn’t affecting the creators platform the way that it is.
I’m not a fan of dark romance but I do feel like the trend is just another slam dunk of being able to laugh at what women like. Meanwhile men are chronic corn addicts 🤨 remind me of who is gross, again? Often multiple things are true (the books are kinda gross but we don’t need to make fun of readers themselves or even assume anything being read is inherently a reflection of moral quality)
You're pretending that a lot of women aren't corn addicts?
@@bunille and you're pretending that reading books with smut is the same thing as watching contents that come out from sexual abuse and trafficking?
@ Ah, I see you admitted the last part. Who is more likely to be a corn worker?
@ How many men and women consume trafficking content? You must live under a rock and have never talked to the opposite sex before. Only fringe people consume that kind of stuff on both sides. Women are not immune from consuming it. And smut is more graphic than a lot of corn. Just because they're words doesn't minimize anything, it's still not for children, and it can be very depraved and disgusting as well with bestiality, nevermind the overdramatization of any action: the very thing that you think you're concerned about in corn, I can guarantee that it happens a million times worse in the average woman's consumption of books/manga. Because we ARE talking about averages here, you bringing up a fringe category isn't correct. The things written down are literally impossible in the real world, so of course they're extremities. Don't get me started on how women who read smut compulsively are the most likely to be single or have very fleeting relationships. You have an unrealistic idea of men, and I can see that.
@@bunille ??? are you on weed or something? LMAO
I agree with Kris on her dark romance take. But smut books are like movies with sex. A good story can coexist with smut. If you’re gonna criticize books that we read, criticize the movies that practically have just as much “smut”.
this is so real omg preach gurl
I just think she was condescending about it. I genuinely think that the mainstream booktok dark romance books are terrible and harmful but her video just felt mean.
i have my own issues with some of dark romance/smutty books i had a chance to read but yes this isn’t the way to talk about it
I don't shame people for liking romance. I shame people for finding toxic shit sexy and readable. Twilight. Ascended Astarion (Baldur's Gate 3). Fifty Shades of Grey. All of which feature disgusting and abusive male leads. Yes, I WILL shame the hell out of people for liking that. But, regular smut and romance? Nah. Normal romance novels aren't toxic. I don't read them because they aren't my thing, but people like what they like.
if someone telling you to touch grass and get therapy and it sets your whole world on fire, maybe you should take the joke as real advice lmao
Let people read a trash book in peace
Well, I've never heard of that creator. So I took a walk outside, watched this vid, and now I'm going to my couch to read a smutty hockey book. 🤓
lol love that for you queen
@@rayareadzzzz 😆💜 thanks - too bad the book was awful but the walk was good.
You said one sentence which is the essence of what she did - rage bait brings money. The more aggressive someone is in a "personal opinion" video, the more aggressive response it gets, which equals money. To say that people need therapy is not only an insult but bullying. Is one to not like a certain genre, is a very different thing to generalize and minimize people and their preferences. Just let the people read whatever they want. Of course, is all right to bring problems into a certain discussion, but not in this way. Even if she hadn't a bad intention, but contrary, the delivery was very bad. Yes, we have big problems in the world of books, from the industry to the social media platforms, even with authors or influencers. But balance and a real discussion is what will resolve some issues, not insults and judgments. And to return to the beginning, balance does not bring money. They don't care about how others can feel, their cushion is soft. Is all that matters.
I don't see or understand why ppl are coming after kallmekris.... she gave her opinion on the books she read.... just lime other wo.e have done.... it's just that her opinion was not the same she's a horrible person? wtf why cant she voice how she feels about these books?
She can. That’s just how the internet works especially in this day and age. If people don’t agree, they’re going to tell you that. It’s up to the creator to stay clear or know that that is a possibility. 🤷🏾♀️
The people saying "fvck you" to people who don't like smvt, and calling what they enjoy "boring" - really aren't any better.
Nor is equivocating what Kris said to literal r*pists.
Sure we can criticise what Kris said as being me,an spirited - and that even though she took some of those more off colour joke out, she didn't address it.
But none of it was really that bad nor directly misog,ynistic. I know there are critiques of this fuvor around "smvt" in books having ties in misog,yny - which is an important conversation, but I don't think that's what's happening here (I would agree it's just for clicks).
And there are also critiques about overconsumption in "booktok", and lazy writing, with little editing, that publishers are now pushing.
And yeah, I'm personally pretty annoyed that my favourite genre - fantasy - is currently pretty overrun with smvt at the minute, and I would like to see some new stuff that isn't just romance with some magic in the background in 2025.
But kris wasn't getting into either of those things, she was just joking -- which is probably where part of the problem is.
None of it gives people an excuse to now dogpile her, and say some of this pretty h0rendous stuff back to her.
(I'm also doubtful she deleted the comment of the first woman - i imagine kris is amoung the creators who have the more strict censoring (which has been making youtube a nightmare tbh))
I used to sometimes watch Kris's true crime stuff until I figured out she was just copying the wikipedia articles almost beat for beat (and maybe all true crime channels do that, but honestly she has a big enough platform and enough resources to be doing her own research imo) and I wonder how much of this was all her own opinions vs her jumping on a bandwagon and parroting common criticisms she's seen, thinking they were more popular than they were.
I feel like a lot of her content is just jumping on a bandwagon. She started doing Reddit stories because it’s popular and I feel like she only started doing true crime because it’s popular. I think her subscribers on RUclips come from her follower base on tiktok and not because she did anything new or noteworthy on RUclips.
I don’t mind smut in my books. I’m 35 and have been reading smutty fanfics and books since I was 15 so I’ve definitely developed what tropes I like and not like in that time. Sometimes people are getting back into reading and many books being recommended on booktok leans in the smutty dark romance subgenre. I’ve read many booktok recommendations and honestly with some of them I’ve read fanfics with better smut, writing, characterization, plot, and development and other books I really liked. Personally not a fan of the quite a few of the most popular authors being constantly recommended.
It’s one thing not to like a certain genre, or to criticize it. It’s another thing entirely to suggest that the people who enjoy it are mentally disturbed and require therapy. She deserved all the hate she got - don’t dish it if you can’t take it.
Didn’t meatcanyon make a similar video I haven’t heard a peep out of anyone about him I like meatcanyon but don’t like kallmekris but it’s kind of weird one gets bashed to bits and pieces and the other not?
And I even tho she didn’t word it very well I thinks she had a lot of genuine points I agree with even tho I really don’t like her
Her video is basically the same as Papa Meats when he mocked these books. So not very original.
Personally not a fan myself of dark romance or smut books, i used to read them when i was younger now its just hard for me to adapt to the writing style; however, the fact that so many creators make such a big fuss of it…its wild to me. Like the only reason booktok is so viral its because of them feeding into it, im not on tiktok but i keep getting these video recs on my yt feed and bruh like sure it was booming at some point and some videos on tiktok were wild with people harassing hockey players and lots of problematic things, but recently it seemed pretty quiet, just people enjoying whatever they want. I didnt see any videos shitting on wattpad and ao3 where us readers know all the wild shit started and is going down. Find new jokes honeys, if you wanna discuss with arguments the real issues with some books sure go ahead but this is just picking on a big audience personal hobby (again fucking wild people do at home whatever they want, touch some grass smh)
And props to you raya for always addressing these discussions in such a respectful manner but also insightful and thoughtful. Critical thinking is lacking on lots of platforms no offence, just riding the wave of majority’s opinions, but you always stand out. Thank you for that!
thank you so much, this means a lot 🥺❤️
4:50 had me dying laughing. "I LIKE TO READ..." 🤣🤣🤣
Gooners don't like to be called gooners
Girl, where did you get your earrings? They are so cute 🥰
thank yoou i love them❤️☺️ they are from stradivarius
Kris was 100% right hope that helps ‼️
lol love hearing your opinion.. cuz you know, it’s an opinion, so it basically means nothing to the people that think she’s wrong. Hope this helps! ‼️
@@makedam9263 So close! saying children should not be exposed to smut and people should watch for pornography addictions IS NOT something you can "have an opinion" on! good night friend!
@@natewhaley5107 lol you’re so close too! You wanting to ban/censor spicy romance books because ‘the children!’ Is the dumbest take because it sets a horrible precedent for books in general. It’s a tale as old as time that they will find wild stuff anyway because it’s everywhere around them. Those books have content warnings and the age you should be to read them because they have adult scenes- yes ice breaker has two actually, on the back and in the book- so the author did her part. You cannot police what people write because that will lead to censorship and banning of something and that is a very slippery slope.
Are you up for banning video games with unaliving? Are you up for banning movies and tv shows that have adult content where you can only buy it, rent it, stream it if that household doesn’t have kids? Because once there is adult content available and a person that is underage there as well as adults who it belongs to, it’s the parents/adults job to either keep it away from them or let them know it’s not appropriate for them. Not just cancel the whole thing all together. And again children are sneaky. If they are determined, they will find it! I’ve been there- Wattpad, ao3, etc.
So banning spicy books with illustrated covers makes no sense unless you’re banning all adult content because we live in a real world with social media - so you even know what they could be seeing on tik tok, insta, X and don’t get me started on streaming- is just not built for kids but parents insist that they give them access to it anyway and then they become mad at what they discover. It’s for adults! Then again, if that parent took their phone away, you know what will happen? They’ll just find another way whether it’s with their friends or something else. It’s the take as old as time and you can’t shut down everything adult to coddle them it’s just not feasible.
And don’t even get me started on the corn addiction. Show me that you haven’t even read a dark romance without showing me. There’s erotica then there’s dark romance. If you think dark romance is corn. Then I already know you’re coming from a place as an outsider judging the people that read it because you think your above us and you literally didn’t even take the time to understand or comprehend what your argument is even about. It’s sad and pathetic really and I’m glad the dark romance community is finally standing up for themselves.
Hope this helps‼️
How is telling people to touch grass is misogynistic? She wasn’t shaming you for liking smut
She just said that the content in these smut is concerning. (I’m referring to the first video)
Why is everyone so silent when other creators do the same y did everyone speak up only when did it
like i said i assume people simply had it up to here, but who knows 🤷🏻♀️
One thing i will say though - I wouldn't necessarily call it a case of misogyny.
Not every opinion and/or critique is misogynistic just because it's mostly women who happen to enjoy it. People no matter the gender can be viewed as problematic, media enjoyed by any gender can be viewed as problematic.
That is not to say that it's never rooted in misogyny, it absolutely can be, i just personally don't view this discourse that way.
For example, I critique harems and objectified women in some anime series (mostly isekai enjoyed primarily by men) just as much as i critique romanticizing problematic behaviour in romance and spice books (though i personally do so mostly in private, not on the internet). Both issues are worthy of critique for me, who it happens to be enjoyed by doesn't matter.
I just wanted to comment my view on the misogyny rhetoric surrounding this topic in general. It would be a pity for the word to just get thrown around and potentially loose it's strong implications in the process.
She dissed gooners… and gooners are mad thats why people are mad
her views going from millions to around 200,000 (at this time) shows that she offended A LOT of people. I agree that she absolutely needs to apologize to the creators that were originally in her video as she made them a target. she also needs to post her apology on youtube (even make the tiktok into a short idk) to make sure that she is apologizing to everyone. lots of people don't use tiktok and now, Americans won't even be able to see it after tomorrow. I'm glad that she is going to stick in her own lane from now on, but posting a video like nothing happened gives me the impression that she is not actually sorry; she just wanted a bag, like you said. she backpedaled because her tactic backfired. imo her original title + video shows how she really feels. saying at the end that she does not mean to offend anyone is like saying "don't be mad, it's just a joke" if she truly did take others experiences and opinions into account, she would have made a proper apology on RUclips where it all started. posting it on tiktok gave me the impression that she does not want to stain her youtube channel with her actions.. other influencers who mess up on youtube and go make an apology on another platform are called out for not taking true accountability, so I think she should be as well. I'm very proud of booktok, not just the creators but the viewers, for speaking out and sharing why they defend it. people were sharing their personal experiences - it's a lot harder to do that imo. she also has the game of thrones series in the backgrround of her video which should be an obvious contradiction to herself. fyi I'm not just a random hater, i had been following her on tiktok for years and was subscribed to her youtube channel and even bought two bags of her and Caleb's candy. I remember the original video coming up on my recommended and I cringed so hard. I wasn't sure if it was because of my own mentality/interests that made me feel embarrassed or becauase I knew it was a bad take. I now have confirmation that what I enjoy is normal and okay (in certain communties anyways). at least there wasn't a ukelele. now I'm gonna go to therapy, go outside and find some grass, and crack open one of my smut books
@@katiatallshe did on tiktok
Her views havent been in the milions for a while so thats nothing new
Girl what are you even talking about.
Grape tube got banned for making videos similar to this
I think its telling that she didn't outright apologize for why people were upset. Also I'm curious if the video she left up for "context" is the edited version or the original.
I remember when a bunch of people from booktok were sending inappropriate messages to a 16 year old boy because he reminded them of some dark romance character or something. Or a shit ton of booktok women who lusted over wade Wilson so idk y’all are fucking weird
‘Yall’ like it’s everyone. It’s not. Some people read their dark romance in the peace and comfort of their home and keep it pushing. There’s always gonna be bad apples in everything. Sigh you’d think we’d know by now to stop generalizing and that’s the entire point of why booktokers are annoyed. The bad apples ruin it for everyone and ‘outsides’ get lost in their ‘I’m so much better than them because I don’t do what they’re doing’ to realize oh wait! Some of these people are doing too much and they’re making everyone look bad, why they gotta ruin things for everyone?
But nah we’re all weird. Like people who watch horror and people who love playing video games that has unaliving and people that liked game of thrones etc etc
EXACTLY!!!!!
Love kallmekris. Was this video “controversial?“ lololol. She’s silly and I wouldn’t take anything she says too seriously. My goodness 🤣
@@katiatallSo I'm not allowed to shame PDF-files anymore?
I personally also think that there is a big difference between critiquing artwork and just stating problematic things in the book. Fantasy is also so seperate from reality and what people may find appealing in fiction has no bearing on how they actually behave.