be on the lookout for smear campaigns against the sources and the journalist, lila shapiro, in the coming weeks and months. i cannot stress enough how brave these people are. if there's one thing more hazardous to your reputation than blowing up a rich and influential serial predator in the entertainment industry, it's making the church of scientology look bad, and she's managed to do both in one stroke. remember lila shapiro's name, and be extremely skeptical if it suddenly turns up later this year as the target of some slimy allegation.
@@HavingFunISKEYThe accusers. They've got some hard messaging evidence, multiple witnesses, and it wasn't just one person on the set creating an abusive workplace.
this is the same journalist who properly broke the story on the joss whedon allegations, she's credible and dilligent (as her work on this article, too, shows). the fact that gaiman's response made it past his pr team and lawyers makes me hopeful that any smears are going to be doing some serious heavy lifting if they even want to make a difference in his favour at this point.
Besides the fact that Neil Gaiman is a monster that should go to hell, it's so horrid how Amanda interacted with Scarlett. She knew her situation and yet sent her to him anyway. That has to be criminal as well or at least it should be.
@@withcindy I can't tell you how disappointed I was in Amanda. I'm especially sorry for her community, her music was always discussing heavy topics and sending messages of understanding towards women, always saying how people can find support in her. I used to listen to her a lot and even saw her live. But she would rather pitch her Patreon than actually act on what she preaches :(
@@missterytreeIt is sex trafficking. And in the case of the financially-dependent employees, it is indentured servitude, otherwise known as slavery. There's no need to downplay that these two people operated a sex trafficking ring.
I had the Coraline book in my shopping cart for a long time, now I'm not sure if I should purchase the book 😅 I don't want to give a cent to that person
@@sapphireemerald6109yeah, you shouldn't do it imo seeing as how neil gaiman's still alive and buying his books means supporting him and giving him money. read "Thief of Always" by Clive Barker instead. i heard it has a similar premise and themes that Coraline drew from.
I feel it’s always important to say that NDAs DO NOT PROTECT ILLEGAL ACTS. Do not let legal mumbo jumbo scare you. If you’ve signed an NDA and you find or suspect any criminal behavior, you are protected in reporting it to authorities and publicizing it under certain conditions. NDAs are to protect confidential information, not crimes.
i went to art school and knew plenty of types like neil gaiman. men who were self-proclaimed feminist, "sensitive soft boys" who knew all the right buzzwords to seem progressive but behind the scenes were abusers, horrible to their girlfriends, etc. and their facade of being a feminist king!!1 only enabled them more. so awful and i saw it happen time and time again
I will not date a self-proclaimed feminist man, as so many say so just to gain more access to women and take advantage of the aspects of feminism that benefit them.
I don’t think Gaiman's a "monster" or a "sick" man. He’s a healthy patriarchy’s child, a man that came to understand his fame and economical power in a world that celebrates everything men do. He’s a despicable human being but we have to stop thinking that is pathological. He’s not the exception to the norm as we have seen with Gisèle Pelicot’s case.
I’m glad there’s people here that can see the forest for the trees-I keep getting bogged down and asking why X people keep doing Y thing, but it really is systemic
I hate how the “good boy” image is always the one thing that keeps people from believing a victim. It was crazy to read in the article, “well he’s always been nice, he writes women like they’re people!” And it’s like who fucking cares. That’s the point. That’s the ruse!
I was just thinking about this, because I could have sworn Gaiman spoke up in support of women on social media, and I was really surprised when the news broke. But in the end, that's part of the optics, and it's insidious.
100% they do it on purpose. I was abused by a “feminist” man and none of our mutual friends believe me because of it. Even when those friends were on a call (that he started) and could hear me crying and asking him to just acknowledge he had hurt me. Him and his family are rather well known among the art scene in my state (which I was hoping to be able to find a place for myself within) and he’s threatened to ruin my name to everyone there and that’s upsetting enough, I can’t imagine how much more catastrophically hurtful Neil Gaiman’s actions are to these women.
My first introduction to his writing was a short story about a man who refused to leave his girlfriend's apartment after she broke up with him...and then used her clay (she was a sculptor) to...pleasure himself...and then made a sculpture of his own with that lovely mix...In Her Apartment!!! It was super creepy and gross towards the women in it and I was so confused how he was so popular. I forget what the story was called, but it was in a short story collection called "In the Shadow of the Gargoyle" published in the 90s.
that's actual CSA what he is putting his son through. additional info on the hotel room assault: his son WAS playing on the ipad in the same room, and Neil told him to put his ipad away, aka forcing him to notice what he was doing since it was a small *one room* hotel room. He clearly gets off to putting his child in these situations. I hope he loses custody and gets jail time. Big warning to anyone who wants to read the article bc it's harrowing to read through.
i want to say i'm really glad you're talking about this Cindy 🫶🏻💗 it made some noise on social media and feminist circles, but a lot more people needs to learn about this man. it's not an easy topic to make a video about.
thanks for providing additional info for others reading the comments! it's so disturbing the things that his child has been exposed to. i fear for him under the care of both those parents :(
"Good art doesn't make good people and, conversely, good people don't make good art either" I really thinks thats something a lottttt of people need to hear
"to create loving men we must love men" as bell hooks put it and "we do not have to uphold every cis white male author who does the bare minimum of work and put them on a pedestal" are two ideas that can coexist yet I fear the world at large is not ready for
I will never ever read Good Omens again, it upsets me that a book I was obsessed with in high school was partially written by an author like him, Terry Pratchett is rolling in his grave. Also hope those women can get justice and Neil goes to prison.
What really annoys me is that the new terry pratchett published short stories (which were published in newspapers yearsss ago) has a foreword by neil gaimen. And i can’t believe the publisher still decided to go with that idea despite the initial accusations last summer. I still love good omens myself, but I’ve always seen it as a mostly pratchett book anyway. I think gaiman the wanker had said before ages ago that it was mostly terry pratchett work anyway. I do have an idea in painting out neil gaiman’s name on my book cover and instead painting crowley’s plants underneath crowley on the cover. Just like how i’m going to put washi tape over joss whedon name on my firefly books and comics since they weren’t really written by him anyway but by other writers. 😌 joss whedon and neil gaimen can suffer in the special hell (to quote a firefly reference as a fu to joss 😂) But I understand if you just want to yeet the books out of the window and never want to see them again!!
Turns out it was an open secret in his circle, if anything Terry knew, maybe it wasn't as bad when he was alive but Gaiman was already very famous at 2015
Ngl after the news of Neil Gaiman and the SA news out broke out last year. I (who lives in mainland China) where his work is inspirational to a lot of me and my fellow chinese writer/artist/creatives here. It's honestly been soul-shattering to see the kind of person he is. I think another thing is that he always posed himself as an LGBTQ+ ally, so a lot of my irl sapphic friends I met through interacting with other sapphic Chinese ppl who are in the same fandoms of his work. Honestly it is hard to explain but in China the fandom/conventions are the only space where sapphic ppl are hugely present/LGBTQ+ creators, especially writers/artists/creatives feel safe to just be who we are? It's very different from the west. But that's besides the point, the point I think is I think a lot of us don't just grapple with the idea of turning author into a hero - since Neil Gaiman isn't really close to the Chinese creative space as an individual, but the community that we fostered that are safe for LGBTQ+ folks here is also tainted by his absolutely monstrous actions. It is just personally devastating to a lot of us I think.
I can understand the feeling. The thing that brought you together and helped make a community has been tainted and it will be hard to go to gathers without thinking about that taint
This is so understandable and makes so much sense. I hope you all find a way to still honour and appreciate the value you were able to find in his work, and that the community yall built thrives 💓
Between Gaiman and Whedon, another lesson to take away is that someone professing to be a feminist or who makes good female characters shouldn’t take that as proof that they’re safe or trustworthy.
I couldn’t finish reading the vulture article, I felt so sick. I feel so sad for the brave people who managed to come forward. My god what Scarlett went through really shook me. I know how dismissive people are when you go public with a S.A accusation, can you imagine against someone so beloved and famous.
Have you seen the Owl Criticism video about Nabokov? If not, I recommend it, it’s enlightening about how…prevalent the themes in Lolita are across the rest of his works
@@bluebow5014 Personally I recommend video analysis on Nabokov and lolita from other sources due to Owl Criticism just ignoring and hand waving the allegations of nabokov being a victim of CSA from his uncle (iirc)
I'm just gonna say: BRAVO! Cindy you freaking spoke my mind. These are things I have been thinking about and saying for YEARS. Believing that any creative person is good because their art is good: is like the medieval idea that if you're beautiful, you are good, and ugliness means evil. The moral: WE ALL MUST DEVELOP OUR CRITICAL THINKING.
i think because writing books and creating art can be such a deeply personal thing, that it makes it easy to equate the quality of work to the quality of someone's morals. but tons of people can create technically good work and be awful IRL, and tons of people who create technically "bad" art can be the nicest person
I make the effort to say "I like so and so's WORK" rather than "I like so and so". I don't know these people, I don't know their politics, I don't know their moral/ethical compass, I don’t know what they’re up to in their spare time. All I know is I like the work they produced. (see: Joss Whedon and Buffy the Vampire Slayer). How I interact with the work of hellspawn demons moving forward is what I'm interrogating for myself. Anyway, he is a sick individual and belongs behind bars. I hope these women get justice. P.s. Throw his ex-wife behind bars too tbh.
I always check an author's political views, anything bad they've done, are they genuinely good people, are they racist, are they sexist, etc the minute I finish reading a book by them, and then decide if I even wanna talk about the book anywhere or recommend it to amyone
I'm so sorry for your loss, Cindy. I recently lost my grandmother to cancer back in December. We had a very complicated relationship but losing her still hit hard. Admittedly, much harder than I thought it would. Death is so bizarre even though it's such a normal and expected part of life. When it happens, it still feels wrong and confusing. Almost like it isn't something that's supposed to be real, as if death is merely a myth. I hope you are doing as well as can be in such a difficult situation. Stay strong.
to add to the last point, i believe is specially awful when some people say "oh i'm glad i never read any of his works, i knew beforehand he was weird" considering what we now about the victims, is like they are saying they are dumb or something for not knowing? and I feel like focusing the discussion on something like that is especially disrespectful to the victims and what they went through. Another point I want to add is that I understand that there are people attached to their work like Coraline or Good Omens, but there are certain people who only focus on the fact that their series will be discontinued or that it will not have a sequel instead of the fact that neil is an abuser and don't seem to care enough about the women in question
It's just another way to victim blame. After I found out about a lot of the lies my ex had told, people blamed me for not seeing through them, even though he was the one who was lying to me. But those same people would tell you that you need to be more trusting and stop being "paranoid" if you question things that give you a bad feeling when you're with these people who are doing stuff like this. It's a way for them to avoid blaming the person who is the actual perpetrator and also a way for them to pretend that they would never be fooled by this type of person, which is something they can't possibly know unless they were in that situation. A lot of these people like Gaiman are very convincing and very manipulative.
Yeah like I feel like this situation has set the internet's general understanding of how a work's quality doesn't always translate to who the author is as a person and that an author's work having questionable content doesn't necessarily mean they endorse it back a bunch of years. It very much is victim blaming trying to say that people who idolized his books and the like were just being blind to who he was as a person because of the stuff he wrote or like 'Well I didn't like his books for a completely unrelated reason so that means I'm intuitive'. Like his works played a role in his influence over a lot of the women he took advantage of but treating whether you liked or didn't like his works as a badge of honour or a moment to gripe is being self centred.
I literally have been silently saying goodbye to people I have spoken to online in both the fan club spaces and writing groups since I have seen so much of comments that centers around HIS IMAGE, HIS PAIN, and HIS LEGACY. One comment from a woman literally hurt me when they shared a story about speaking with him at a convention in New York and really, really pushed down my throat nothing had happened to them. They were treated nice and given a good reference. Girl, just because it did not happen to you, it does not negate the experiences of others.
Thank you, Cindy for pointing out that people writing morally “correct/clean/palatable” fiction doesn’t make them good people. Something I want to add is that at the same time, people who write darker fiction, even taboo fiction, aren’t inherently bad people nor does it mean their work is an indicator that they would replicate what they write in real life. Fiction is imagination, not a mirror. We’ve seen so many times that “good” authors can, in fact, be predators. They predate on our sense of safety and perceived closeness to them because of their work. You cannot depend on a person’s fiction to indicate the type of person they are. Of course, there are exceptions, but I’ve seen so many people confused that Neil Gaiman could be this vile person because they connected with his work, but his writing is not who he is as a person walking through society. You have to separate this notion that fiction affects reality and accept that it’s more often a reflection of reality and lived experiences, but those experiences may not be relatable to the author themselves. Fiction is where we play and imagine and explore; for him, he was imagining what it’d be like to be a good person.
Idk if I can agree with the concept of any writing being “morally correct” (because what does that mean?), but your last line is SUCH a powerful one. Even though it’s horrifying, it is safer and more accurate to assume mainstream “feminist” men are just cosplaying as societally acceptable people, and doing it well.
The way this is how I learned about this awful situation 💔 I agree with your points and really feel like I’ve done that in the past with Rick Riordan. To my knowledge he’s never done anything like this, but when I was growing up to me he was that older white man with “dad vibes” who was liberal and prioritized representation and I really idolized him. The fandom even called him “Uncle Rick.” I started reexamining my idolization of him after being devastated by JKR’s transphobia several years ago. You make a great point about specifically with male artists we just want so badly for them to be allies and while I’m sure that can be true and wonderful in many cases, it also helps open the door for awful situations like this one.
Same. As a long time Percy Jackson fan, i don't really like the representation of Samirah that much. Perhaps one of the things that i clocked out (?) about him.
If the Colleen Ballinger incident has taught me anything, anyone is fully capable of being a predator. Even if it's someone who presents themself as a sensitive artist type. It's gutting for me to hear that someone I admired in writing did these disgusting and horrible actions, but that's exactly why we as people need to stand behind the survivors. I will always stand by the survivors and their words
100% agree with your point about women not getting equal amount of praise for their ability to write about diverse people! It's kind of like....when a white man does it, he is applauded for "looking" beyond white supremacy and misogyny smh
As someone who spent their hs years getting assaulted, I appreciate the trigger warnings throughout the video. It's such an awful, heart wrenching thing to hear this story. It's genuinely disgusting and awful. His response is disgusting but honestly, not entirely surprising. Deflecting, denying, the whole nine yards. I feel like sometimes, with male "feminist" artists, people project a feminist identity onto them. They may not do anything entirely *worthy* of praise, but because the bar is in hell, people assign them as their newest feminist king. It's so easy for them too. Do the bare minimum, and suddenly everyone loves you. Hell, sometimes they become a "face of the movement." We've created a culture of idolizing these people and it really gives them the power to get away with the shit they do. And it honestly just needs to stop.
totally; he can say some nice words and that's enough to project all the noble qualities you WISH he has, without really knowing the extent of how much he believes or practices what he says
There are so many similarities between the two, except in JW case there are no sexual solid case that we know of. However, we see these artists as feminine icons for creating well written female characters. Wish that was the norm. Buffy the vampire slayer was phenomenal so it's crazy that the creator is just a lucky pos who had connections theory is family and access to a higher education than most. Cast members have spoken out about this abuse on set. He wasn't allowed to be alone with a young actress because of an unknown incident. He wrote off a main character and destroyed a promising storyline and retaliation to an actress getting pregnant. He was found to be abusive and removed from the a set after a investigation was launched amid rumors. He has a self proclaimed self insert character named xander in buffy the vampire slayer. What's alarming about this is that the character is a sexist, Hypocritical pos who never faces the consequences of his actions. The fact he wants us to see him that way is crazy!! You should definitely look into it. Xander is like the beginnings of an incel. The og blue print. I'm in a buffy the vampire slayer fan page on facebook and the way that most men white knight for xander ( because most have the common sense not to white knight for JW himself) is wild. They will ignore real critiques and criticisms of the character and instead attack the person making them.
Some people aren't even able to delete his books off of their Goodreads yet. Goodreads: "This book has temporary limitations on submitting ratings and reviews. This may be because we’ve detected unusual behavior that doesn’t follow our review guidelines." 😬
This is the first time i feel i should have heeded a TW and skipped ahead. Jesus fucking christ i wish i could unhear this shit. Real Epstein and Maxwell shit
I’ve never read Gaiman’s works but I’d always hear good things about them and about him. So seeing this all unfold is still a shock from the outside. Someone who seemed so safe to a lot of people actually weaponizing that to his advantage. Ugh… Sending you many condolences for your loss. 😢❤
One of the things that I was so disgusted by was the amount of houses/property Gaiman has Like that amount of wealth that he silently wielded over all of these women I wasn’t even aware he was that successful
@@zodlord5669 hi there! I don't think Cindy is being "high and mighty" here, and would love to hear your perspective on why. while I can understand the perspective that taking an abusers money can imply complacency or enabling behavior, I don't think it justifies gaiman brutally raping her. do you think that because the women were working for him and therefore "taking his money" that they deserved to be raped? would you allow yourself to be raped by your boss at work? if you are a boss, would you like to get away with raping an employee? do you think these two things (receiving money, and rape) are on the same level?
I have always loved Coraline, which as a story encourages young girls to see through deceit and question fear itself even when that fear is instilled by figures you are meant to trust. So you can probably guess how sad it makes me feel knowing that the very man who wrote it went on to manipulate, abuse and traumatize eight young women, being a perpetrator of that same fear.
17:11 - great point. Palmer overstepped just by calling her fans 'friends', but hiring a very vulberable girl was downright predatory. I used to grieve all the books of Gaiman I won't be able to read (I loved those I have read), but now I'm just angry that I considered him a humanist. I'm sorry to hear you're going through a dark time, hope you're not alone.
when the allegations first came out over the summer, the reactions i saw from the good omens / sandman fandoms on tumblr was genuinely disgusting. the things that were said about these women, by people that had previously professed the importance of believing victims, were actually vile; i don’t think i’d ever been as upset about something on the internet as i was last summer, i felt literally nauseous. especially when the article came out recently and it was clear that a lot of what these people online were saying were the exact same things gaiman himself used to manipulate his victims. and that’s not even to mention the number of people who weren’t saying anything about the victims directly, but whose first or sometimes even only posts on the subject were along the lines of “what will happen to the next season of [show]??? 😰” that made me unbelievably angry like go the fuck outside for once in your life
This is truly one of the most sickening things to come out in recent years, especially given the astronomical success Gaiman has enjoyed with several of his screen adaptations since 2020. And yeah, I completely agree with the fact that the art shouldn't have to prove an author's deviousness or conceit when there are literal living, breathing human beings coming forward with their stories. That is hard and cold proof which should be contemplated and acted upon rather than wasting time on dissecting every line this man has ever written. (What he has put these women through is unimaginable, nobody sane can come to that conclusion through his 'art'). I hope the survivours find peace eventually and that he loses his mind the same way one of his twisted and predatory characters did. My deepest condolences to you for your loss, Cindy.
yes, the success of his screen adaptations made him even wealthier and renowned. hopefully this will tarnish his legacy and prevent him from any more opportunities
I am so sorry for your loss! I personally never cared for Gaiman’s writing style but film Coraline came out during a rough time for me and I became very obsessed with it so this definitely hit me hard. But between Bill Cosby and Woody Allen I have become a walk away type of person. And with the state of the world I think walking away and not even entertaining separating the art from the artist concept is what’s is best. There are so many writers out there doing good work and saying it better! Heck Ursula Le Guin still slaps! What happened to those women is sickening and I hope he never knows a moment of peace.
I'm very sorry for your loss, Cindy. Thank you for covering this issue nonetheless, hope the rest of your year offers you some comfort and respite from all the events that have transpired so far 🙏
Omg !!!!!! What a monster !!!!! I agreed , the wife is a horrible person too. I hope the victims get the help they need and justice is served. I can’t believe the police didn’t do anything!!!! Omg
Btw I can't believe this has to be Said: but no Just because he is a Monster that doesn't excuse J.K Rowling or makes her a better person (Yes there were people saying that It did) one person being horrible doesn't annul the horrible actions of others
Yeah but jk literally never assaulted anyone. People were just mad at her bc of her stance on gender. I mean I’m not a fan of her or books. Just saying. The hate on jkr is kind of overwrought
@CM-pf1xc I think it's a bit more than that though; when she accused an Olympic athlete of being trans (when that athlete comes from a country where lgbt+ people are literally criminalised), fueling a horrible hate train comes to mind. With Rowling you have to consider that her stances come with a very passionate and hateful but loud following. Even if she doesn't directly, physically hurt someone, she still has a lot of power to cause hurt :/
@@CM-pf1xc she uses her money to help anti-trans politics and organizations, she acused a Algerian woman of "being a man" causing a global wave of transphobia towards this woman (who was cis btw), she wrote A FREACKING BOOK! Where the main villain was a serial killer who was "a Man who dresses as woman" in a way to represent trans women, again what Gaiman did was awful and he should rot in jail, but saying the Hate on her is "overwrought" is very naive to say the least
I finished American gods days before the article came out, I remeber being horrified by the sexism of it. The only thing I could find online was this guys thesis project about how feminist the work was, and I felt like I was insane. Reddit was the only place to confirm my interpretation
Oh my goodness, thank you!!! I felt like I was going crazy when I was reading American Gods because I just felt that the women were soooo sexualized, and I found it very offputting, especially since I had heard so many rave reviews on how Gaiman wrote women.
Firstly, I'm so sorry for what you're going through. Secondly: I hope at the very least, Gaiman and Palmer are both charged with clear human trafficking. Also, given what the women said about the abuse they endured aligned a *lot* with what we hear about the abuse scientology survivors have experienced. I only bring that up in the context of Neil's own history (and own abuse he went through) with the organization. Also jfc can we all hope for their son being okay? Daddy was already grooming him. What about his other children? jfc.
Firstly, sorry for your loss CIndy Secondly, thank you for speaking up about the Neil Gaiman accusations, because although I've heard about this last year, I feel like it's still isn't really talked about (or at least not talked about enough). And it pisses me off that people still try to push the allegations under the table just because Neil wrote a few good stories.
IMO, Amanda P@lmer is almost as culpable as he is. She was, at best, his enabler and, at worst, almost a trafficker. If it's true that she told NG he "couldn't have Scarlett," that could be seen as egging him. She 100% knew what he was like and knew that these things had the potential to happen but sent this vulnerable young women in there anyway. If she comes out with allegations of abuse against him, we should believe her because we believe ALL survivors regardless of bad shit they did, but we cannot forget her part in this.
Thanks and respect for not censoring out the horrible details. Lots of people leading with 'well monetization' over holding accountability, which does lessen the impact of speaking on it. Also good on bringing up the habitual centering of white men as human rights representatives, and all of your discussion off of that point.
thinking about what you said at the end, that bad people don't necessarily make bad art and good people don't make good art. i really like Gaiman's writing and this horrible news makes me want to swear off male fantasy authors entirely. but female authors aren't inherently better (like just look at JKR). it's hard to read something good and not jump to learning everything about the author, especially as a writer myself. im trying to learn to enjoy art without glorifying the artist. it's hard. also im so sorry for your loss i hope the rest of this year is kinder to you 💕
Council of Geeks has done two very good long breakdowns covering the tortoise podcast’s coverage before the better vulture article came out They also did an exceptionally good job breaking down the nuances of the situation and what it means going forward if you choose to consume media Gaiman was a creative part in They are another excellent resource if you have the time and mental ability to hear discussion of the accusations
The fact that you took the time to research and discuss all of this while going through grief is beyond admirable. As for Gaiman, who has given off a very ominous aura for me since October 7th: it's on sight now 💝
Firstly, Cindy, I'm terribly sorry for your loss. I lost my grandmother almost ten years ago, and then my grandfather almost five. It doesn't feel real. While the ache may always linger with you, you will grow around it. It'll be tender for years to come, but it will not always hurt so much. Be gentle with yourself in this time and remember it'll take as long as it takes. Secondly, what really strikes me about the article, is that he has a type. Thin, usually short haired brunettes, all who he's above in power. That's. Not a coincidence. He can be replicating the first act (one we don't know about yet) to relive it, or something else is at play here. Rarely do people get so wrapped up in a 'type' of person that they don't move outside of it IMO.
It's crazy, I just lost my own mom on inauguration day when trump signed an EO to begin the process of stripping my (trans) rights. Now this with Gaiman, one of my more respected authors. I feel so hopeless for the future.
One thing I keep thinking about was how he talked about having his former nanny living with him during Covid at one of his speaking events and I'm now wondering what was really happening during this and hope the nanny is safe.
i can understand wanting to reexamine an author's works when they turn out to be a horrible person but i just can't stand the people who want it to be some kind of proof or warning that we should have seen the entire time. neil gaiman writing women poorly wasn't a flashing warning sign that he's an abuser. it was him writing women poorly. you aren't morally superior to the people who were fans of neil gaiman just because you didn't like his work. you aren't immune to liking art made by bad people. you just didn't like art made by this specific bad person. at a time where victims are coming forward and thousands of people are trying to come to terms with the fact that a writer they looked up to is an abuser, you aren't helping by making the conversation about how you are so special because you never liked him. this isn't about you
Agree! I think ppl want validation in their tastes in art, but this is not the time. The victims stories take precedence over the quality or lack of quality of the predator's art
@@withcindy exactly. you can privately feel relieved or talk about it to your friends, but it's just ridiculous to start talking about that publicly. the focus should be on the victim's stories and you can look for validation of your taste in the old fashioned way by arguing with people who don't like your favourite book.
All of this coming out makes the implications of him being so active on Tumblr troubling in retrospect. Since he went after young fans at cons, it's not hard to imagine why he enjoyed being on the nerdy website.
Apparently in one recent media statement he said he "doesn't like social media". As though he wasn't almost constantly on tumblr for years (he's been pretty much radio silent on there now though.. very telling)
I'm sorry for your loss Cindy, and I'm also grateful that you took the time out from what must be a very difficult period to address this. I wasn't able to read past NG approaching the bath in the article, so I really appreciate the people online who are summarising what happened. Even if I struggle I still want to be informed and support these women, so thank you for putting that work in. I hope you're able to get some rest and take care of yourself.
thank you, i'm slowly getting back into a regular routine but it's still hard for this person's loved ones who are grieving. we're trying our best though
Honestly the conversation about tearing apart and dissecting a person's work when they get exposed really reminded me of the Melanie Martinez situation when she was accused of r@pe and a lot of her fans didn't believe it especially cause she constantly advocates for the opposite in her work.
Oh gosh, editing here, but I'm very sorry for your loss Cindy. I hope things will get easier for you soon. I think it's so hard to apply Death of the Author with Neil Gaiman's works because so many of his characters seem like self-inserts, particularly Morpheus. When I think about the way the Sandman becomes furious with Nada when she instructs him to leave her alone, now it just makes me think of Pavlovich. I definitely believe you can have perfectly lovely creators depict horrible, sadistic stories but man, it's haunting now thinking about some of the male characters that Neil wrote who didn't take no for an answer when it came to tormented women. Thanks so much for covering this subject! I was really curious to find out what your feelings were on how to treat Gaiman's art after all this has come out.
I hate when artists are revealed to be bad people and people keep focusing on the art they make as "proof". Like "I should've known bc in his book, there's this and this and this". I hate it because it seems people are talking about it like the victims should've known somehow, or the fans should've known. And sure, sometimes, people's morals are very obvious in their art, but sometimes not. Art is very subjective and is also a business after all. And also, we shouldn't be focusing on whether or not he's a good writer, whether his art is good. We should be focusing on his REAL LIFE crimes that are affecting REAL PEOPLE. His writing is secondary.
A particularly gross part of this is that Gaiman was raises in Scientology. His parents were pretty high up in the UK branch. The head of the Church was called “Master” and a movie starring Philip Seymour Hoffman and Joaquin Phoenix called The Master dramatizes the founding of Scientology and the psychological warfare employed on others by “The Master”. Also I am so sorry for your loss.
My condolences for your loss. Gaiman's statement (newsletter?) after the article was published is such bullshit. The guy doesn't even understand that a woman who is financially dependent on him to the point described cannot consent. Among many other atrocities.
I dont think i can ever explain the feelings i had when the news about Neil Gaiman broke. I have never felt such betrayl in my life, i dont think i will ever trust another author again in my life
sending you my condolences for your loss ❤ having lost somebody as well, it's so hard to process the grief even after years. i can only commend you for still being able to make this, i hope this year treats you better soon 💗
I skipped the actual stories, but amazing analyses! I'm german and in the last months a really popular 'leftist feminist' white man and a white boygroup also presenting themselves as feminists have been called out for typical patriarchal behaviour. (Not as brutal as Neil Gaiman, but stuff like supporting abusers and mistreating women) People were really shocked by the discrepancy of their behaviour and how they presented themself as feminists actively all the while their behaviour in private spoke different.... We've had some huge discussions over here and it really inspired me to just decenter white men in my life even more. There really is no reason to idealize white men who advocate for basic rights for women, when there are so many actual activists to support and uplift!
Terry Pratchett would be so disappointed. That was a man whose books made a central point about countering the absurdity of the cultural expectations women faced throughout society. To see someone he regarded as a good friend treat women, or just people in general, like this… it’s actually heartbreaking to think about. Hopefully the victims can rest assured knowing their stories are told and believed.
What about all the other artists that write smut, GRRM, The lady who wrote 50 shades, so many if not all authors who write adult content are you gonna say they all don't have a dark side? So you are just gonna believe all women? No evidence just believe all women. Yeah no thanks bro.
For me I can never separate the art from the artist because I think about the disgusting things victims go through. I can't imagine what it would be like to hear people praising the work of my abuser or seeing their name on a shelf or their face on a magazine.
Hi Cindy, I’m very sorry for your loss and hope the year will start being kinder to you. I’m sending empathy and positive vibes through the ether of the internet.
As someone in the good omens fandom ive been hearing about this since the news first came out and i think you did an excellent job with this video. That last point about morality and art is something I myself was thinking for a while but wasn’t able to properly articulate.
I really needed to hear this. I have really struggled with this situation because he has been such an inspiration for my writing, but like he’s a fucking monster. I have just sort of hit a wall with my creativity because of just the disappointment. Thank you.
Thank you for this video, especially the last part where you point out that creator and art aren't the same. I hate that people always try to police what other people talk about in their works of fiction when alligations like this come up. For every Gaiman who actually acts on the dark things they write about there are a hundred who would never do that, who deal with said dark things in a safe environment like fiction. In the end, trying to tell people what they can and can't write about doesn't help anyone, and I'm always annoyed when people try to tell me that 'of course I knew they are a bad person, didn't you see what they created in a fictional context??'
I skipped the part about what specifically he did because I’ve read a bit about it and don’t want to hear more so thank you for marking it. I still watched the rest of the video
I feel like this is gonna be such an interesting discussion! I know you should separate art from the artist but it’s so hard. All the feminist and progressive themes in his works ring so hollow ://
In his case, one particular piece of his art is inextricably linked to this. He wrote an entire story in The Sandman about how famous writers abusing the women in their lives is a horrible thing to do. And given that context, he really should have known better than to do any of this.
@@withcindy exactly! I was so attached to his body of work during my darkest moments (sa etc) THIS LIKE A GUTPUNCH. I Hope the victims get the Justice they deserve and need. Fuck Neil
@@withcindy yes! Totally agree. I Found sm comfort in his work as a victim of sa and this all feels like a gutpunch. Hope the victims get justice. Hell is hot
You can separate the artist from their work but in doing so, the work cannot be given full appreciation. The artist can inform so much about the creation and vice versa, so when Niels Themes falls short in his story, it can* tell us something about himself (*it's obviously circumstantial). I'm not saying "you cannot enjoy any of these work anymore" but rather that separation is impossible. Especially when that person is still alive and benefiting from the creation being shared and consumed. (Also all this is not related to death of the author, it's a different thing!)
I just wanted to say thank you for talking about this issue, even as you go through your own loss. So much respect for you and am so sorry for this unfortunate situation. Stay strong 🤍
There are so many similarities between the two, except in JW case there are no sexual solid case that we know of. However, we see these artists as feminine icons for creating well written female characters. Wish that was the norm. Buffy the vampire slayer was phenomenal so it's crazy that the creator is just a lucky pos who had connections theory is family and access to a higher education than most. Cast members have spoken out about this abuse on set. He wasn't allowed to be alone with a young actress because of an unknown incident. He wrote off a main character and destroyed a promising storyline and retaliation to an actress getting pregnant. He was found to be abusive and removed from the a set after a investigation was launched amid rumors. He has a self proclaimed self insert character named xander in buffy the vampire slayer. What's alarming about this is that the character is a sexist, Hypocritical pos who never faces the consequences of his actions. The fact he wants us to see him that way is crazy!! You should definitely look into it. Xander is like the beginnings of an incel. The og blue print. I'm in a buffy the vampire slayer fan page on facebook and the way that most men white knight for xander ( because most have the common sense not to white knight for JW himself) is wild. They will ignore real critiques and criticisms of the character and instead attack the person making them.
@@withcindy, he always posed himself as a feminist and advocate for women. Turns out he was abusive to the women around him. Look up "Joss Whedon + Charisma Carpenter" and "Joss Whedon + Michelle Trachtenberg."
@@withcindyhe was exposed to have been mistreating people and basically being a massive bully on set, mostly towards women. i'm fuzzy on the details bc it was almost a decade ago, but his ex-wife Kai Cole put out a very eye-opening statement about him
I feel so sad that something so many people treasure is now tainted It is not possible to separate the at from the artist. Art should be consumed with the context of the artist.
As someone who is very familiar with this man and his internet persona I think the best thing the everyday person can do is make him irrelevant and never let this man in this industry again. Discourage studios from hiring him. Remind companies that bring him on what he’s done. NG is someone who LOVES public attention. Make him irrelevant and impossible to hire. Unfortunately I dont think criminal charges will be charged but I hope he is sued for everything he has.
i definitely agree about people online feeling the need to create a 'moral' reason to dislike things. it's always really bothered me. it feels like it trivializes the actual problems involved, and i've noticed that it disproportionately is directed at women and LGBT people. i've seen people full-on wish violence on taylor swift "because of her private jet emissions", and even though she does deserve criticism for that, am i really supposed to believe that they just care SO much about the environment that they couldn't help themselves from being threatening? they're not showing that much rage towards the koch brothers. and yet they seem convinced it has NOTHING to do with misogyny, and it baffles me. it seems like every week the internet decides they all hate a new woman or gay man or transgender person or etc etc
Ive never been so fucking disgusted by an author I liked before. It’s such a reality check that we really have no idea who these people are behind closed doors. And I HATE that there is a common theme of abusive men spouting how much they value and respect women. We need men to advocate for us, but often times the ones yelling the loudest seem to be the biggest monsters in their private life.
my theory for why the loudest ones are the most hypocritical is because they're still centering themselves above the actual marginalized ppl theyre supposedly an ally to
Looking at someone's work will never help you gauge their personality. Creative work is inherently just that, creative. It require imagination and thinking outside of yourself. Which anyone is capable of doing, it's a muscle. But being empathetic or sympathetic does not mean you're inclined to make good decisions in relation other's wellbeing. It just means you understand. It does not mean you care. I'm extremely disappointed and angry that someone who's work I admire is such a horrid human being. But I've also had many artists I admired in the past turn out to be the same. It'll definitely happen again, but hopefully we learn and can prevent something like this from happening.
The fact that there's a whole special Sandman episode with this EXACT plot of an acclaimed author abusing and raping a woman he keeps locked up and spews feminist resonses to the press...its all just mind boggling.
I can’t watch this or any commentary on this issue at present, because Gaiman is/was a very important writer to me, and I am still basically processing and grieving this news without even yet having been able to read all the specifics. However, I want to thank you for discussing it. Someday I’ll come back and consume all the commentaries from creators I follow, and be grateful for the guidance while I’m just kind of flailing.
I always fall for the image that celebrities sell. I’m working on creating distance between myself and famous people I love as I get older but I can’t help myself from loving people who make art I connect with
it sounds like youre at least aware of this though which is huge! and in an ideal world you should be able to love art and their artists without fear of them being terrible
be on the lookout for smear campaigns against the sources and the journalist, lila shapiro, in the coming weeks and months. i cannot stress enough how brave these people are. if there's one thing more hazardous to your reputation than blowing up a rich and influential serial predator in the entertainment industry, it's making the church of scientology look bad, and she's managed to do both in one stroke. remember lila shapiro's name, and be extremely skeptical if it suddenly turns up later this year as the target of some slimy allegation.
Very good point! Especially with the money these people have, they're going to invest a lot into changing people's perception
@@withcindywill you be making a video on the Justin/ Blake situation? Idk who to believe
@@HavingFunISKEYThe accusers. They've got some hard messaging evidence, multiple witnesses, and it wasn't just one person on the set creating an abusive workplace.
@@HavingFunISKEY I'm neutral on this situation and waiting until the cases go to trial.
this is the same journalist who properly broke the story on the joss whedon allegations, she's credible and dilligent (as her work on this article, too, shows). the fact that gaiman's response made it past his pr team and lawyers makes me hopeful that any smears are going to be doing some serious heavy lifting if they even want to make a difference in his favour at this point.
Besides the fact that Neil Gaiman is a monster that should go to hell, it's so horrid how Amanda interacted with Scarlett. She knew her situation and yet sent her to him anyway. That has to be criminal as well or at least it should be.
Jail to both of them!!
@@withcindy I can't tell you how disappointed I was in Amanda.
I'm especially sorry for her community, her music was always discussing heavy topics and sending messages of understanding towards women, always saying how people can find support in her.
I used to listen to her a lot and even saw her live.
But she would rather pitch her Patreon than actually act on what she preaches :(
It’s like she was trafficking for him. Sending him perfect victims. I hate them both.
@@missterytreeIt is sex trafficking. And in the case of the financially-dependent employees, it is indentured servitude, otherwise known as slavery. There's no need to downplay that these two people operated a sex trafficking ring.
She's clearly trafficking these women to him
Reading that article about Gaiman made me want to throw up. I never want to see his face in the literary world ever again.
Same here
We vibe the same.
I had the Coraline book in my shopping cart for a long time, now I'm not sure if I should purchase the book 😅 I don't want to give a cent to that person
@@sapphireemerald6109 if you decide you still want to own it, buying it secondhand doesn't give anything to the original author
@@sapphireemerald6109yeah, you shouldn't do it imo seeing as how neil gaiman's still alive and buying his books means supporting him and giving him money. read "Thief of Always" by Clive Barker instead. i heard it has a similar premise and themes that Coraline drew from.
I feel it’s always important to say that NDAs DO NOT PROTECT ILLEGAL ACTS. Do not let legal mumbo jumbo scare you. If you’ve signed an NDA and you find or suspect any criminal behavior, you are protected in reporting it to authorities and publicizing it under certain conditions. NDAs are to protect confidential information, not crimes.
0:48 Most people “I wouldn’t wish this on my worst enemy” Cindy “double it and give it to Neil Gaiman”
Exactly 💯
My kind of woman.
i went to art school and knew plenty of types like neil gaiman. men who were self-proclaimed feminist, "sensitive soft boys" who knew all the right buzzwords to seem progressive but behind the scenes were abusers, horrible to their girlfriends, etc. and their facade of being a feminist king!!1 only enabled them more. so awful and i saw it happen time and time again
Yep those types of dudes always make me skeptical!!
also, so sorry for your loss cindy. condolences to you and all their family and friends.💖
I will not date a self-proclaimed feminist man, as so many say so just to gain more access to women and take advantage of the aspects of feminism that benefit them.
I don’t think Gaiman's a "monster" or a "sick" man. He’s a healthy patriarchy’s child, a man that came to understand his fame and economical power in a world that celebrates everything men do. He’s a despicable human being but we have to stop thinking that is pathological. He’s not the exception to the norm as we have seen with Gisèle Pelicot’s case.
I agree. He was enabled by the people, industry, and world around him
I’m glad there’s people here that can see the forest for the trees-I keep getting bogged down and asking why X people keep doing Y thing, but it really is systemic
He was celebrated for being a good author, though, not for just being a man in the industry?
@@hope-cat4894 ... he was celebrated and is now being defended for being a good author *because* he's a man in the industry.
I know you're trying to be deep but he's definitely a monster
I hate how the “good boy” image is always the one thing that keeps people from believing a victim. It was crazy to read in the article, “well he’s always been nice, he writes women like they’re people!” And it’s like who fucking cares. That’s the point. That’s the ruse!
Yeah, they can skate by without suspicion based on the right words and projection :/
I was just thinking about this, because I could have sworn Gaiman spoke up in support of women on social media, and I was really surprised when the news broke. But in the end, that's part of the optics, and it's insidious.
100% they do it on purpose. I was abused by a “feminist” man and none of our mutual friends believe me because of it. Even when those friends were on a call (that he started) and could hear me crying and asking him to just acknowledge he had hurt me. Him and his family are rather well known among the art scene in my state (which I was hoping to be able to find a place for myself within) and he’s threatened to ruin my name to everyone there and that’s upsetting enough, I can’t imagine how much more catastrophically hurtful Neil Gaiman’s actions are to these women.
My first introduction to his writing was a short story about a man who refused to leave his girlfriend's apartment after she broke up with him...and then used her clay (she was a sculptor) to...pleasure himself...and then made a sculpture of his own with that lovely mix...In Her Apartment!!! It was super creepy and gross towards the women in it and I was so confused how he was so popular. I forget what the story was called, but it was in a short story collection called "In the Shadow of the Gargoyle" published in the 90s.
My condolences on your loss
Thank u bb 💗
I’m sorry to hear what you’re going through atm. Sending my sincerest condolences and warm regards.
Thanks bb 💗
stinky indian take a shower
that's actual CSA what he is putting his son through. additional info on the hotel room assault: his son WAS playing on the ipad in the same room, and Neil told him to put his ipad away, aka forcing him to notice what he was doing since it was a small *one room* hotel room. He clearly gets off to putting his child in these situations. I hope he loses custody and gets jail time. Big warning to anyone who wants to read the article bc it's harrowing to read through.
i want to say i'm really glad you're talking about this Cindy 🫶🏻💗 it made some noise on social media and feminist circles, but a lot more people needs to learn about this man. it's not an easy topic to make a video about.
thanks for providing additional info for others reading the comments! it's so disturbing the things that his child has been exposed to. i fear for him under the care of both those parents :(
Not only that, but there was an incident where his son was lying in bed between Gaiman and one of his victims while he was doing stuff to her
"Good art doesn't make good people and, conversely, good people don't make good art either"
I really thinks thats something a lottttt of people need to hear
i hope more people remember this!
"to create loving men we must love men" as bell hooks put it and "we do not have to uphold every cis white male author who does the bare minimum of work and put them on a pedestal" are two ideas that can coexist yet I fear the world at large is not ready for
very true!!
Once again, we are reminded of the challenging lesson not to idealize individuals.
many people's entire careers and livelihoods depend on being idolized, and then they abuse it
I will never ever read Good Omens again, it upsets me that a book I was obsessed with in high school was partially written by an author like him, Terry Pratchett is rolling in his grave. Also hope those women can get justice and Neil goes to prison.
i hope so too. i dont have faith in the legal system but hopefully the victims can get peace
What really annoys me is that the new terry pratchett published short stories (which were published in newspapers yearsss ago) has a foreword by neil gaimen. And i can’t believe the publisher still decided to go with that idea despite the initial accusations last summer.
I still love good omens myself, but I’ve always seen it as a mostly pratchett book anyway. I think gaiman the wanker had said before ages ago that it was mostly terry pratchett work anyway. I do have an idea in painting out neil gaiman’s name on my book cover and instead painting crowley’s plants underneath crowley on the cover. Just like how i’m going to put washi tape over joss whedon name on my firefly books and comics since they weren’t really written by him anyway but by other writers. 😌 joss whedon and neil gaimen can suffer in the special hell (to quote a firefly reference as a fu to joss 😂)
But I understand if you just want to yeet the books out of the window and never want to see them again!!
@ Same here.
@ That's a great idea, and you gave me peace of mind by pointing that out.
Turns out it was an open secret in his circle, if anything Terry knew, maybe it wasn't as bad when he was alive but Gaiman was already very famous at 2015
Ngl after the news of Neil Gaiman and the SA news out broke out last year. I (who lives in mainland China) where his work is inspirational to a lot of me and my fellow chinese writer/artist/creatives here. It's honestly been soul-shattering to see the kind of person he is. I think another thing is that he always posed himself as an LGBTQ+ ally, so a lot of my irl sapphic friends I met through interacting with other sapphic Chinese ppl who are in the same fandoms of his work. Honestly it is hard to explain but in China the fandom/conventions are the only space where sapphic ppl are hugely present/LGBTQ+ creators, especially writers/artists/creatives feel safe to just be who we are? It's very different from the west. But that's besides the point, the point I think is I think a lot of us don't just grapple with the idea of turning author into a hero - since Neil Gaiman isn't really close to the Chinese creative space as an individual, but the community that we fostered that are safe for LGBTQ+ folks here is also tainted by his absolutely monstrous actions. It is just personally devastating to a lot of us I think.
I can understand the feeling. The thing that brought you together and helped make a community has been tainted and it will be hard to go to gathers without thinking about that taint
that's a very good point, and i hope you and your community are doing okay
This is so understandable and makes so much sense. I hope you all find a way to still honour and appreciate the value you were able to find in his work, and that the community yall built thrives 💓
@@dieorwrite9460 this made me sad to read. I hope you create new fandom spaces.
Between Gaiman and Whedon, another lesson to take away is that someone professing to be a feminist or who makes good female characters shouldn’t take that as proof that they’re safe or trustworthy.
Agreed! You never know
Whedon doesn't deserve to be compared to Gaiman, a serial rapist.
Nabokov tried to sound the alarm about this archetype of man. This is what he was talking about.
I couldn’t finish reading the vulture article, I felt so sick. I feel so sad for the brave people who managed to come forward. My god what Scarlett went through really shook me. I know how dismissive people are when you go public with a S.A accusation, can you imagine against someone so beloved and famous.
Have you seen the Owl Criticism video about Nabokov? If not, I recommend it, it’s enlightening about how…prevalent the themes in Lolita are across the rest of his works
@@bluebow5014 Personally I recommend video analysis on Nabokov and lolita from other sources due to Owl Criticism just ignoring and hand waving the allegations of nabokov being a victim of CSA from his uncle (iirc)
Your name is helping to lighten the burden of your words. It's a good username.
@@tired690 Oh shit
Yeah I did not know that, thank you for the details
I'm just gonna say: BRAVO! Cindy you freaking spoke my mind.
These are things I have been thinking about and saying for YEARS. Believing that any creative person is good because their art is good: is like the medieval idea that if you're beautiful, you are good, and ugliness means evil. The moral: WE ALL MUST DEVELOP OUR CRITICAL THINKING.
i think because writing books and creating art can be such a deeply personal thing, that it makes it easy to equate the quality of work to the quality of someone's morals. but tons of people can create technically good work and be awful IRL, and tons of people who create technically "bad" art can be the nicest person
I make the effort to say "I like so and so's WORK" rather than "I like so and so". I don't know these people, I don't know their politics, I don't know their moral/ethical compass, I don’t know what they’re up to in their spare time. All I know is I like the work they produced. (see: Joss Whedon and Buffy the Vampire Slayer). How I interact with the work of hellspawn demons moving forward is what I'm interrogating for myself.
Anyway, he is a sick individual and belongs behind bars. I hope these women get justice. P.s. Throw his ex-wife behind bars too tbh.
That's a good way of distinguishing!
I always check an author's political views, anything bad they've done, are they genuinely good people, are they racist, are they sexist, etc the minute I finish reading a book by them, and then decide if I even wanna talk about the book anywhere or recommend it to amyone
I'm so sorry for your loss, Cindy. I recently lost my grandmother to cancer back in December. We had a very complicated relationship but losing her still hit hard. Admittedly, much harder than I thought it would. Death is so bizarre even though it's such a normal and expected part of life. When it happens, it still feels wrong and confusing. Almost like it isn't something that's supposed to be real, as if death is merely a myth. I hope you are doing as well as can be in such a difficult situation. Stay strong.
Thanks bb, sending love to you too 💗 this happened right after Christmas so the new year has been a lot
@@withcindy Sorry for both your losses
to add to the last point, i believe is specially awful when some people say "oh i'm glad i never read any of his works, i knew beforehand he was weird" considering what we now about the victims, is like they are saying they are dumb or something for not knowing? and I feel like focusing the discussion on something like that is especially disrespectful to the victims and what they went through. Another point I want to add is that I understand that there are people attached to their work like Coraline or Good Omens, but there are certain people who only focus on the fact that their series will be discontinued or that it will not have a sequel instead of the fact that neil is an abuser and don't seem to care enough about the women in question
It's just another way to victim blame. After I found out about a lot of the lies my ex had told, people blamed me for not seeing through them, even though he was the one who was lying to me. But those same people would tell you that you need to be more trusting and stop being "paranoid" if you question things that give you a bad feeling when you're with these people who are doing stuff like this.
It's a way for them to avoid blaming the person who is the actual perpetrator and also a way for them to pretend that they would never be fooled by this type of person, which is something they can't possibly know unless they were in that situation. A lot of these people like Gaiman are very convincing and very manipulative.
Yeah like I feel like this situation has set the internet's general understanding of how a work's quality doesn't always translate to who the author is as a person and that an author's work having questionable content doesn't necessarily mean they endorse it back a bunch of years. It very much is victim blaming trying to say that people who idolized his books and the like were just being blind to who he was as a person because of the stuff he wrote or like 'Well I didn't like his books for a completely unrelated reason so that means I'm intuitive'. Like his works played a role in his influence over a lot of the women he took advantage of but treating whether you liked or didn't like his works as a badge of honour or a moment to gripe is being self centred.
I literally have been silently saying goodbye to people I have spoken to online in both the fan club spaces and writing groups since I have seen so much of comments that centers around HIS IMAGE, HIS PAIN, and HIS LEGACY.
One comment from a woman literally hurt me when they shared a story about speaking with him at a convention in New York and really, really pushed down my throat nothing had happened to them. They were treated nice and given a good reference. Girl, just because it did not happen to you, it does not negate the experiences of others.
Wtfff ppl r not getting the point
That makes me think of Macaulay Culkin saying he knows MJ wasn’t a predator because he didn’t assault him like y'all abusers pick their targets
Thank you, Cindy for pointing out that people writing morally “correct/clean/palatable” fiction doesn’t make them good people. Something I want to add is that at the same time, people who write darker fiction, even taboo fiction, aren’t inherently bad people nor does it mean their work is an indicator that they would replicate what they write in real life. Fiction is imagination, not a mirror. We’ve seen so many times that “good” authors can, in fact, be predators. They predate on our sense of safety and perceived closeness to them because of their work. You cannot depend on a person’s fiction to indicate the type of person they are. Of course, there are exceptions, but I’ve seen so many people confused that Neil Gaiman could be this vile person because they connected with his work, but his writing is not who he is as a person walking through society. You have to separate this notion that fiction affects reality and accept that it’s more often a reflection of reality and lived experiences, but those experiences may not be relatable to the author themselves. Fiction is where we play and imagine and explore; for him, he was imagining what it’d be like to be a good person.
Idk if I can agree with the concept of any writing being “morally correct” (because what does that mean?), but your last line is SUCH a powerful one.
Even though it’s horrifying, it is safer and more accurate to assume mainstream “feminist” men are just cosplaying as societally acceptable people, and doing it well.
Sorry for your loss Cindy ❤ Hope 2025 gets better for you soon
Thanks bb 💗 January has been tough on so many levels but hopefully the rest of the year is better 😭
The way this is how I learned about this awful situation 💔 I agree with your points and really feel like I’ve done that in the past with Rick Riordan. To my knowledge he’s never done anything like this, but when I was growing up to me he was that older white man with “dad vibes” who was liberal and prioritized representation and I really idolized him. The fandom even called him “Uncle Rick.” I started reexamining my idolization of him after being devastated by JKR’s transphobia several years ago. You make a great point about specifically with male artists we just want so badly for them to be allies and while I’m sure that can be true and wonderful in many cases, it also helps open the door for awful situations like this one.
I think your care and awareness helps be more considerate of how we view public figures 💗
Same. As a long time Percy Jackson fan, i don't really like the representation of Samirah that much. Perhaps one of the things that i clocked out (?) about him.
If the Colleen Ballinger incident has taught me anything, anyone is fully capable of being a predator. Even if it's someone who presents themself as a sensitive artist type. It's gutting for me to hear that someone I admired in writing did these disgusting and horrible actions, but that's exactly why we as people need to stand behind the survivors. I will always stand by the survivors and their words
100% agree with your point about women not getting equal amount of praise for their ability to write about diverse people! It's kind of like....when a white man does it, he is applauded for "looking" beyond white supremacy and misogyny smh
As someone who spent their hs years getting assaulted, I appreciate the trigger warnings throughout the video. It's such an awful, heart wrenching thing to hear this story. It's genuinely disgusting and awful. His response is disgusting but honestly, not entirely surprising. Deflecting, denying, the whole nine yards. I feel like sometimes, with male "feminist" artists, people project a feminist identity onto them. They may not do anything entirely *worthy* of praise, but because the bar is in hell, people assign them as their newest feminist king. It's so easy for them too. Do the bare minimum, and suddenly everyone loves you. Hell, sometimes they become a "face of the movement." We've created a culture of idolizing these people and it really gives them the power to get away with the shit they do. And it honestly just needs to stop.
totally; he can say some nice words and that's enough to project all the noble qualities you WISH he has, without really knowing the extent of how much he believes or practices what he says
There are so many similarities between the two, except in JW case there are no sexual solid case that we know of. However, we see these artists as feminine icons for creating well written female characters. Wish that was the norm. Buffy the vampire slayer was phenomenal so it's crazy that the creator is just a lucky pos who had connections theory is family and access to a higher education than most. Cast members have spoken out about this abuse on set. He wasn't allowed to be alone with a young actress because of an unknown incident. He wrote off a main character and destroyed a promising storyline and retaliation to an actress getting pregnant. He was found to be abusive and removed from the a set after a investigation was launched amid rumors. He has a self proclaimed self insert character named xander in buffy the vampire slayer. What's alarming about this is that the character is a sexist, Hypocritical pos who never faces the consequences of his actions. The fact he wants us to see him that way is crazy!!
You should definitely look into it. Xander is like the beginnings of an incel. The og blue print. I'm in a buffy the vampire slayer fan page on facebook and the way that most men white knight for xander ( because most have the common sense not to white knight for JW himself) is wild. They will ignore real critiques and criticisms of the character and instead attack the person making them.
@@amberproctor3996I think you might’ve responded to the wrong comment-this one isn’t about Joss Whedon at all
Some people aren't even able to delete his books off of their Goodreads yet. Goodreads: "This book has temporary limitations on submitting ratings and reviews. This may be because we’ve detected unusual behavior that doesn’t follow our review guidelines." 😬
Ugh
This is the first time i feel i should have heeded a TW and skipped ahead. Jesus fucking christ i wish i could unhear this shit. Real Epstein and Maxwell shit
Yeah despite the trigger warnings it's still a lot worse than ppl expect 😔
I’ve never read Gaiman’s works but I’d always hear good things about them and about him. So seeing this all unfold is still a shock from the outside. Someone who seemed so safe to a lot of people actually weaponizing that to his advantage. Ugh…
Sending you many condolences for your loss. 😢❤
i've never read his work either, but still knew of him because of how lauded he was, which i think speaks to his influence
One of the things that I was so disgusted by was the amount of houses/property Gaiman has
Like that amount of wealth that he silently wielded over all of these women
I wasn’t even aware he was that successful
Yeah he is rich rich!! That's why he just throws money at his victims as a solution
@@withcindy don't act so high and mighty those women took that money too what does that make them?
yes rich people buy multiple properties, you think that's crazy wait until you hear about P diddy
@@zodlord5669 hi there! I don't think Cindy is being "high and mighty" here, and would love to hear your perspective on why. while I can understand the perspective that taking an abusers money can imply complacency or enabling behavior, I don't think it justifies gaiman brutally raping her. do you think that because the women were working for him and therefore "taking his money" that they deserved to be raped? would you allow yourself to be raped by your boss at work? if you are a boss, would you like to get away with raping an employee? do you think these two things (receiving money, and rape) are on the same level?
@@zodlord5669people who were vulnerable financially, what the fuck???? and even if they were well off, that wouldn't excuse anything gaiman did
Been waiting for your take on this. It has been insane indeed.
I feel so bad for the victims 😔
I have always loved Coraline, which as a story encourages young girls to see through deceit and question fear itself even when that fear is instilled by figures you are meant to trust. So you can probably guess how sad it makes me feel knowing that the very man who wrote it went on to manipulate, abuse and traumatize eight young women, being a perpetrator of that same fear.
17:11 - great point. Palmer overstepped just by calling her fans 'friends', but hiring a very vulberable girl was downright predatory. I used to grieve all the books of Gaiman I won't be able to read (I loved those I have read), but now I'm just angry that I considered him a humanist.
I'm sorry to hear you're going through a dark time, hope you're not alone.
when the allegations first came out over the summer, the reactions i saw from the good omens / sandman fandoms on tumblr was genuinely disgusting. the things that were said about these women, by people that had previously professed the importance of believing victims, were actually vile; i don’t think i’d ever been as upset about something on the internet as i was last summer, i felt literally nauseous. especially when the article came out recently and it was clear that a lot of what these people online were saying were the exact same things gaiman himself used to manipulate his victims.
and that’s not even to mention the number of people who weren’t saying anything about the victims directly, but whose first or sometimes even only posts on the subject were along the lines of “what will happen to the next season of [show]??? 😰” that made me unbelievably angry like go the fuck outside for once in your life
let's bring back shame
This is truly one of the most sickening things to come out in recent years, especially given the astronomical success Gaiman has enjoyed with several of his screen adaptations since 2020.
And yeah, I completely agree with the fact that the art shouldn't have to prove an author's deviousness or conceit when there are literal living, breathing human beings coming forward with their stories. That is hard and cold proof which should be contemplated and acted upon rather than wasting time on dissecting every line this man has ever written. (What he has put these women through is unimaginable, nobody sane can come to that conclusion through his 'art'). I hope the survivours find peace eventually and that he loses his mind the same way one of his twisted and predatory characters did.
My deepest condolences to you for your loss, Cindy.
yes, the success of his screen adaptations made him even wealthier and renowned. hopefully this will tarnish his legacy and prevent him from any more opportunities
Just hearing what happened to these poor women makes me sick…I hope they are able to get the help they need and the justice they deserve.
me too, they've been through enough
@ Fr🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
I am so sorry for your loss!
I personally never cared for Gaiman’s writing style but film Coraline came out during a rough time for me and I became very obsessed with it so this definitely hit me hard. But between Bill Cosby and Woody Allen I have become a walk away type of person. And with the state of the world I think walking away and not even entertaining separating the art from the artist concept is what’s is best. There are so many writers out there doing good work and saying it better! Heck Ursula Le Guin still slaps!
What happened to those women is sickening and I hope he never knows a moment of peace.
I'm very sorry for your loss, Cindy. Thank you for covering this issue nonetheless, hope the rest of your year offers you some comfort and respite from all the events that have transpired so far 🙏
Thank you so much, I appreciate that ❤️
Omg !!!!!! What a monster !!!!! I agreed , the wife is a horrible person too. I hope the victims get the help they need and justice is served. I can’t believe the police didn’t do anything!!!! Omg
I hope so too. Sadly the police are notorious for being unreliable :/
@ 🎯💯
Btw I can't believe this has to be Said: but no Just because he is a Monster that doesn't excuse J.K Rowling or makes her a better person (Yes there were people saying that It did) one person being horrible doesn't annul the horrible actions of others
Agreed 💯
Yeah but jk literally never assaulted anyone. People were just mad at her bc of her stance on gender. I mean I’m not a fan of her or books. Just saying. The hate on jkr is kind of overwrought
@CM-pf1xc I think it's a bit more than that though; when she accused an Olympic athlete of being trans (when that athlete comes from a country where lgbt+ people are literally criminalised), fueling a horrible hate train comes to mind. With Rowling you have to consider that her stances come with a very passionate and hateful but loud following. Even if she doesn't directly, physically hurt someone, she still has a lot of power to cause hurt :/
no literally. both people can be (and are) horrible
@@CM-pf1xc she uses her money to help anti-trans politics and organizations, she acused a Algerian woman of "being a man" causing a global wave of transphobia towards this woman (who was cis btw), she wrote A FREACKING BOOK! Where the main villain was a serial killer who was "a Man who dresses as woman" in a way to represent trans women, again what Gaiman did was awful and he should rot in jail, but saying the Hate on her is "overwrought" is very naive to say the least
I finished American gods days before the article came out, I remeber being horrified by the sexism of it. The only thing I could find online was this guys thesis project about how feminist the work was, and I felt like I was insane. Reddit was the only place to confirm my interpretation
Oh my goodness, thank you!!! I felt like I was going crazy when I was reading American Gods because I just felt that the women were soooo sexualized, and I found it very offputting, especially since I had heard so many rave reviews on how Gaiman wrote women.
Oh this puts into words what I was feeling! Twice I tried to read American Gods and was always put off by it, could never finish the book.. tha k you!
Firstly, I'm so sorry for what you're going through. Secondly: I hope at the very least, Gaiman and Palmer are both charged with clear human trafficking. Also, given what the women said about the abuse they endured aligned a *lot* with what we hear about the abuse scientology survivors have experienced. I only bring that up in the context of Neil's own history (and own abuse he went through) with the organization. Also jfc can we all hope for their son being okay? Daddy was already grooming him. What about his other children? jfc.
Yes there def seems to be parallels with what he's learned in scientology in preying upon vulnerable people!
I think the most pressing matter is that CPS is called on them and they get their son taken away so he stops getting exposed to horrible things.
Firstly, sorry for your loss CIndy
Secondly, thank you for speaking up about the Neil Gaiman accusations, because although I've heard about this last year, I feel like it's still isn't really talked about (or at least not talked about enough). And it pisses me off that people still try to push the allegations under the table just because Neil wrote a few good stories.
IMO, Amanda P@lmer is almost as culpable as he is. She was, at best, his enabler and, at worst, almost a trafficker. If it's true that she told NG he "couldn't have Scarlett," that could be seen as egging him. She 100% knew what he was like and knew that these things had the potential to happen but sent this vulnerable young women in there anyway. If she comes out with allegations of abuse against him, we should believe her because we believe ALL survivors regardless of bad shit they did, but we cannot forget her part in this.
Thanks and respect for not censoring out the horrible details. Lots of people leading with 'well monetization' over holding accountability, which does lessen the impact of speaking on it. Also good on bringing up the habitual centering of white men as human rights representatives, and all of your discussion off of that point.
thank you for listening!
I'm so sorry for your loss... I hope you heal and feel better soon
thank you
thinking about what you said at the end, that bad people don't necessarily make bad art and good people don't make good art. i really like Gaiman's writing and this horrible news makes me want to swear off male fantasy authors entirely. but female authors aren't inherently better (like just look at JKR). it's hard to read something good and not jump to learning everything about the author, especially as a writer myself. im trying to learn to enjoy art without glorifying the artist. it's hard.
also im so sorry for your loss i hope the rest of this year is kinder to you 💕
Council of Geeks has done two very good long breakdowns covering the tortoise podcast’s coverage before the better vulture article came out
They also did an exceptionally good job breaking down the nuances of the situation and what it means going forward if you choose to consume media Gaiman was a creative part in
They are another excellent resource if you have the time and mental ability to hear discussion of the accusations
Thank you for the recommendation!
im so sorry for your loss cindy ☹️ take care , we all adore you ❤️❤️
Thanks Sammie 💗💗
The fact that you took the time to research and discuss all of this while going through grief is beyond admirable. As for Gaiman, who has given off a very ominous aura for me since October 7th: it's on sight now 💝
Firstly, Cindy, I'm terribly sorry for your loss. I lost my grandmother almost ten years ago, and then my grandfather almost five. It doesn't feel real. While the ache may always linger with you, you will grow around it. It'll be tender for years to come, but it will not always hurt so much. Be gentle with yourself in this time and remember it'll take as long as it takes.
Secondly, what really strikes me about the article, is that he has a type. Thin, usually short haired brunettes, all who he's above in power. That's. Not a coincidence. He can be replicating the first act (one we don't know about yet) to relive it, or something else is at play here. Rarely do people get so wrapped up in a 'type' of person that they don't move outside of it IMO.
I NEVER associate "good art" with "good morals", or "bad art" with "bad morals". Its a dangerous mindset.
Yes. Unfortunately Dan Reynolds is a good guy by most accounts 😂
It's crazy, I just lost my own mom on inauguration day when trump signed an EO to begin the process of stripping my (trans) rights. Now this with Gaiman, one of my more respected authors. I feel so hopeless for the future.
I'm so sorry for your loss and am giving you a hug across the internet ❤️
@@withcindy Your comment made me ugly cry (in a good way) ❤Thank you.
It’s just like I wanna shake people and be like “HE IS RENOWNED WRITER! OF COURSE HE CAN CRAFT A GOOD BOY IMAGE!”
One thing I keep thinking about was how he talked about having his former nanny living with him during Covid at one of his speaking events and I'm now wondering what was really happening during this and hope the nanny is safe.
i hope that nanny is safe too :(
i can understand wanting to reexamine an author's works when they turn out to be a horrible person but i just can't stand the people who want it to be some kind of proof or warning that we should have seen the entire time. neil gaiman writing women poorly wasn't a flashing warning sign that he's an abuser. it was him writing women poorly. you aren't morally superior to the people who were fans of neil gaiman just because you didn't like his work. you aren't immune to liking art made by bad people. you just didn't like art made by this specific bad person. at a time where victims are coming forward and thousands of people are trying to come to terms with the fact that a writer they looked up to is an abuser, you aren't helping by making the conversation about how you are so special because you never liked him. this isn't about you
Agree! I think ppl want validation in their tastes in art, but this is not the time. The victims stories take precedence over the quality or lack of quality of the predator's art
@@withcindy exactly. you can privately feel relieved or talk about it to your friends, but it's just ridiculous to start talking about that publicly. the focus should be on the victim's stories and you can look for validation of your taste in the old fashioned way by arguing with people who don't like your favourite book.
It's crazy how he was tumblr's darling for years- the community was in shambles.
All of this coming out makes the implications of him being so active on Tumblr troubling in retrospect. Since he went after young fans at cons, it's not hard to imagine why he enjoyed being on the nerdy website.
Apparently in one recent media statement he said he "doesn't like social media". As though he wasn't almost constantly on tumblr for years (he's been pretty much radio silent on there now though.. very telling)
I'm sorry for your loss Cindy, and I'm also grateful that you took the time out from what must be a very difficult period to address this. I wasn't able to read past NG approaching the bath in the article, so I really appreciate the people online who are summarising what happened. Even if I struggle I still want to be informed and support these women, so thank you for putting that work in. I hope you're able to get some rest and take care of yourself.
thank you, i'm slowly getting back into a regular routine but it's still hard for this person's loved ones who are grieving. we're trying our best though
Honestly the conversation about tearing apart and dissecting a person's work when they get exposed really reminded me of the Melanie Martinez situation when she was accused of r@pe and a lot of her fans didn't believe it especially cause she constantly advocates for the opposite in her work.
Oh gosh, editing here, but I'm very sorry for your loss Cindy. I hope things will get easier for you soon.
I think it's so hard to apply Death of the Author with Neil Gaiman's works because so many of his characters seem like self-inserts, particularly Morpheus. When I think about the way the Sandman becomes furious with Nada when she instructs him to leave her alone, now it just makes me think of Pavlovich. I definitely believe you can have perfectly lovely creators depict horrible, sadistic stories but man, it's haunting now thinking about some of the male characters that Neil wrote who didn't take no for an answer when it came to tormented women.
Thanks so much for covering this subject! I was really curious to find out what your feelings were on how to treat Gaiman's art after all this has come out.
Quote of the Day: “Let’s just eat a protein bar and just, like, digest how horrible people are.”
sadly munching on granola
I'm sorry for your loss
I hate when artists are revealed to be bad people and people keep focusing on the art they make as "proof". Like "I should've known bc in his book, there's this and this and this". I hate it because it seems people are talking about it like the victims should've known somehow, or the fans should've known. And sure, sometimes, people's morals are very obvious in their art, but sometimes not. Art is very subjective and is also a business after all. And also, we shouldn't be focusing on whether or not he's a good writer, whether his art is good. We should be focusing on his REAL LIFE crimes that are affecting REAL PEOPLE. His writing is secondary.
A particularly gross part of this is that Gaiman was raises in Scientology. His parents were pretty high up in the UK branch. The head of the Church was called “Master” and a movie starring Philip Seymour Hoffman and Joaquin Phoenix called The Master dramatizes the founding of Scientology and the psychological warfare employed on others by “The Master”.
Also I am so sorry for your loss.
Tanith Lee's novel Night's Master with sequals influenced Gaiman's The Sandman comics
My condolences for your loss.
Gaiman's statement (newsletter?) after the article was published is such bullshit. The guy doesn't even understand that a woman who is financially dependent on him to the point described cannot consent. Among many other atrocities.
Also, in 9:50 I think you meant Scarlett instead of Amanda "Scarlett filed a police report about Neil Gaiman..."
Yes I did! Thanks for catching
I read part of the article and it was so disgusting, I couldn’t finish it.
Yeah it's a tough read 😞
I dont think i can ever explain the feelings i had when the news about Neil Gaiman broke. I have never felt such betrayl in my life, i dont think i will ever trust another author again in my life
Im sorry for the betrayal you're feeling :(
sending you my condolences for your loss ❤ having lost somebody as well, it's so hard to process the grief even after years. i can only commend you for still being able to make this, i hope this year treats you better soon 💗
thank you, and i hope youre doing okay too
I skipped the actual stories, but amazing analyses!
I'm german and in the last months a really popular 'leftist feminist' white man and a white boygroup also presenting themselves as feminists have been called out for typical patriarchal behaviour. (Not as brutal as Neil Gaiman, but stuff like supporting abusers and mistreating women) People were really shocked by the discrepancy of their behaviour and how they presented themself as feminists actively all the while their behaviour in private spoke different....
We've had some huge discussions over here and it really inspired me to just decenter white men in my life even more. There really is no reason to idealize white men who advocate for basic rights for women, when there are so many actual activists to support and uplift!
Terry Pratchett would be so disappointed. That was a man whose books made a central point about countering the absurdity of the cultural expectations women faced throughout society. To see someone he regarded as a good friend treat women, or just people in general, like this… it’s actually heartbreaking to think about. Hopefully the victims can rest assured knowing their stories are told and believed.
we shoudlnt idealise terry pratchett either, we dont know who he was behind the scenes
What about all the other artists that write smut, GRRM, The lady who wrote 50 shades, so many if not all authors who write adult content are you gonna say they all don't have a dark side? So you are just gonna believe all women? No evidence just believe all women. Yeah no thanks bro.
We should just appreciate Terry for his works, but not as a person. Who knows what he has been doing all these times?
Nope. This falls into the same trap. You don't know Terry Pratchett. Presumably, you've only read his books. You don't know what kind of man he was.
@@zodlord5669there's enough evidence in this case. Stop changing the subject.
For me I can never separate the art from the artist because I think about the disgusting things victims go through. I can't imagine what it would be like to hear people praising the work of my abuser or seeing their name on a shelf or their face on a magazine.
i imagine it must be anxiety inducing any time his victims see his books in a store :(
Hi Cindy, I’m very sorry for your loss and hope the year will start being kinder to you. I’m sending empathy and positive vibes through the ether of the internet.
thank you, i hope the year will be kinder to all of us!
I got shocked when that article came out not only because I was not expecting such news about him but also because of the severity of his action
I didn't expect it to be so graphic :/
@withcindy right? sending prayers to the victims, I hope they get their well deserved justice and healing
As someone in the good omens fandom ive been hearing about this since the news first came out and i think you did an excellent job with this video. That last point about morality and art is something I myself was thinking for a while but wasn’t able to properly articulate.
I really needed to hear this. I have really struggled with this situation because he has been such an inspiration for my writing, but like he’s a fucking monster. I have just sort of hit a wall with my creativity because of just the disappointment. Thank you.
Definitely understand hitting a wall after this, but I'm sure your writing and art will lead a better example 💗
Thank you for this video, especially the last part where you point out that creator and art aren't the same. I hate that people always try to police what other people talk about in their works of fiction when alligations like this come up. For every Gaiman who actually acts on the dark things they write about there are a hundred who would never do that, who deal with said dark things in a safe environment like fiction. In the end, trying to tell people what they can and can't write about doesn't help anyone, and I'm always annoyed when people try to tell me that 'of course I knew they are a bad person, didn't you see what they created in a fictional context??'
I skipped the part about what specifically he did because I’ve read a bit about it and don’t want to hear more so thank you for marking it. I still watched the rest of the video
Understandable and I'm glad you're taking care of yourself ❤️
Same
Fingers crossed Gaiman experiences six times the level of misery you’ve experienced this month
Hope things get better for you, queen! 💙
I feel like this is gonna be such an interesting discussion! I know you should separate art from the artist but it’s so hard. All the feminist and progressive themes in his works ring so hollow ://
Yeahhh I don't think separating is advised if the artist is actively preying on victims esp when his success enables him to do so
In his case, one particular piece of his art is inextricably linked to this. He wrote an entire story in The Sandman about how famous writers abusing the women in their lives is a horrible thing to do. And given that context, he really should have known better than to do any of this.
@@withcindy exactly! I was so attached to his body of work during my darkest moments (sa etc) THIS LIKE A GUTPUNCH. I Hope the victims get the Justice they deserve and need. Fuck Neil
@@withcindy yes! Totally agree. I Found sm comfort in his work as a victim of sa and this all feels like a gutpunch. Hope the victims get justice. Hell is hot
You can separate the artist from their work but in doing so, the work cannot be given full appreciation.
The artist can inform so much about the creation and vice versa, so when Niels Themes falls short in his story, it can* tell us something about himself (*it's obviously circumstantial). I'm not saying "you cannot enjoy any of these work anymore" but rather that separation is impossible. Especially when that person is still alive and benefiting from the creation being shared and consumed. (Also all this is not related to death of the author, it's a different thing!)
I just wanted to say thank you for talking about this issue, even as you go through your own loss. So much respect for you and am so sorry for this unfortunate situation. Stay strong 🤍
Everything including child abuse what the hell
I dread how the kid is going to turn out under the care of those parents 😞
What you are saying about the architype feels very true about Joss Whedon as well.
i dont know much about joss whedon as a person, what's up with him?
There are so many similarities between the two, except in JW case there are no sexual solid case that we know of. However, we see these artists as feminine icons for creating well written female characters. Wish that was the norm. Buffy the vampire slayer was phenomenal so it's crazy that the creator is just a lucky pos who had connections theory is family and access to a higher education than most. Cast members have spoken out about this abuse on set. He wasn't allowed to be alone with a young actress because of an unknown incident. He wrote off a main character and destroyed a promising storyline and retaliation to an actress getting pregnant. He was found to be abusive and removed from the a set after a investigation was launched amid rumors. He has a self proclaimed self insert character named xander in buffy the vampire slayer. What's alarming about this is that the character is a sexist, Hypocritical pos who never faces the consequences of his actions. The fact he wants us to see him that way is crazy!!
You should definitely look into it. Xander is like the beginnings of an incel. The og blue print. I'm in a buffy the vampire slayer fan page on facebook and the way that most men white knight for xander ( because most have the common sense not to white knight for JW himself) is wild. They will ignore real critiques and criticisms of the character and instead attack the person making them.
@@withcindy, he always posed himself as a feminist and advocate for women. Turns out he was abusive to the women around him.
Look up "Joss Whedon + Charisma Carpenter" and "Joss Whedon + Michelle Trachtenberg."
@@withcindyhe was exposed to have been mistreating people and basically being a massive bully on set, mostly towards women. i'm fuzzy on the details bc it was almost a decade ago, but his ex-wife Kai Cole put out a very eye-opening statement about him
I feel so sad that something so many people treasure is now tainted
It is not possible to separate the at from the artist. Art should be consumed with the context of the artist.
The closing conclusion that bad art doesn't mean bad people is actually so important
I read this article last week and I had to stop because of the flashbacks. I took a mental health day after that. Thank you for posting this!
I hope you're taking care of yourself!
I am so sorry for your loss, Cindy. Your videos helped me get through a loss last year, wishing you lots of love during this time
im sorry you had to deal with loss last year, hoping ur okay too
Cindy, dear, I'm so sorry about your loss. We all love u and we are sending lots of love ❤ kisses from Brazil
Sending love back to Brazil ❤️
As someone who is very familiar with this man and his internet persona I think the best thing the everyday person can do is make him irrelevant and never let this man in this industry again. Discourage studios from hiring him. Remind companies that bring him on what he’s done. NG is someone who LOVES public attention. Make him irrelevant and impossible to hire. Unfortunately I dont think criminal charges will be charged but I hope he is sued for everything he has.
i definitely agree about people online feeling the need to create a 'moral' reason to dislike things. it's always really bothered me. it feels like it trivializes the actual problems involved, and i've noticed that it disproportionately is directed at women and LGBT people. i've seen people full-on wish violence on taylor swift "because of her private jet emissions", and even though she does deserve criticism for that, am i really supposed to believe that they just care SO much about the environment that they couldn't help themselves from being threatening? they're not showing that much rage towards the koch brothers. and yet they seem convinced it has NOTHING to do with misogyny, and it baffles me. it seems like every week the internet decides they all hate a new woman or gay man or transgender person or etc etc
so sorry for your loss, hope you can lean on your community in person and online. love the video as always ❤
thank you bb
Ive never been so fucking disgusted by an author I liked before. It’s such a reality check that we really have no idea who these people are behind closed doors. And I HATE that there is a common theme of abusive men spouting how much they value and respect women. We need men to advocate for us, but often times the ones yelling the loudest seem to be the biggest monsters in their private life.
my theory for why the loudest ones are the most hypocritical is because they're still centering themselves above the actual marginalized ppl theyre supposedly an ally to
Looking at someone's work will never help you gauge their personality. Creative work is inherently just that, creative. It require imagination and thinking outside of yourself. Which anyone is capable of doing, it's a muscle. But being empathetic or sympathetic does not mean you're inclined to make good decisions in relation other's wellbeing. It just means you understand. It does not mean you care.
I'm extremely disappointed and angry that someone who's work I admire is such a horrid human being. But I've also had many artists I admired in the past turn out to be the same. It'll definitely happen again, but hopefully we learn and can prevent something like this from happening.
The fact that there's a whole special Sandman episode with this EXACT plot of an acclaimed author abusing and raping a woman he keeps locked up and spews feminist resonses to the press...its all just mind boggling.
I can’t watch this or any commentary on this issue at present, because Gaiman is/was a very important writer to me, and I am still basically processing and grieving this news without even yet having been able to read all the specifics. However, I want to thank you for discussing it. Someday I’ll come back and consume all the commentaries from creators I follow, and be grateful for the guidance while I’m just kind of flailing.
The specifics are very graphic and difficult, so I understand wanting to take time first before youre ready ❤️
I always fall for the image that celebrities sell. I’m working on creating distance between myself and famous people I love as I get older but I can’t help myself from loving people who make art I connect with
it sounds like youre at least aware of this though which is huge! and in an ideal world you should be able to love art and their artists without fear of them being terrible
May your relative rest in peace so sorry for your loss
They weren't my relative but I've been helping their relatives 💗 thank youn
@withcindy 💖💖