Thank you for this recap, I appreciated the panel's insights. Speaking of Medvedeva's flutz, I'm still bitter about it since the tech panel always dinged Mao Asada's flutz.
Anyone else notice the atrocious double-standard between male and female athletes... Or at least male and female figure skaters? I began to notice this at Sochi with Ashley and now it's become even clearer with Mirai (and Ashley, even though she wasn't competing) at Pyeongchang. People give female athletes a tough time for every perceived misstep. I love Adam and I enjoy watching these big personalities having a moment to shine, but compare Adam to Mirai, or to Ashley. People are still absolutely vicious about Ashley's placement to the team, and it's very common to see people say that she "stole" the spot from Mirai... Whereas I've never seen anyone claim that Adam "stole" anything from Ross. Adam has been attention-seeking to the point of being downright cocky, yet Mirai's momentary glitches have been blown so out of proportion. Meanwhile Ashley's been fending off the beasts on social media who're going batshit over her perfectly normal tweets about Alina's backloading or Boyjing's lack of transitions. Mirai and Adam both skated the long in the Team to help the USA win Bronze, and Mirai and Adam each placed 10th overall in the individual, but everyone's acting like Adam represented the US to the max and that Mirai has been an embarrassment and possibly insane. I've seen so many people on Facebook/Twitter saying how Adam is so "fabulous" and such a breath of fresh air and how his media presence is awesome and how Mirai and/or Ashley need to STFU. Such double standards!!! I've yet to see anyone criticize Adam's More-Applause-Please moment at the end of his FS. Just imagine if Ashley'd done that.
Carlena Moss Why thank you! In my book, she and Yuna are co-Queens :-) I know... Everyone just adores him! And after that one possibly-weird-but-not-really-and-also-misquoted interview from Mirai, she's gone silent...
Late reply but omg yeah Adam's "More-Applause-Please" moment (lol) was probably the most cringe-worthy moment of the Olympics. I agree with you on the double standards.
@@yugiohlegend it’s totally that camp, look at Kamila’s flip or lutz. She rotates almost a whole rotation on ice with full blade before she takes off omg
I usually love your videos but this one was hard to watch. Mr. Doug Haw seems a bit too biased.. and because of that, many of the things he explained sounded unreliable. I don't like him as a guest sorry.
another reason medvedeva has such a bad flutz is because of the way she uses her toe pick. she doesn't pick with her back leg straight, and the extra movement causes her to lose the edge
I thought Zagitova was phenomenal. She deserved the Olympic Gold but I would have put Osmond second because Medvedeva is overrated on the technical side all the time.
yeah, i remember how electrifying and fun it was to watch zagitova do jump after jump in the second half esp when she added back that loop on that second lutz
@@giorgininoshvili62 skating with your mouth open the entire time isn't expression. But in all fairness, she didnt deserve second. How can you medal if you don't have a lutz?
While the IJS has quite a few issues… My main problem with the entire system is that the correlation between PCS and TES is WAY too strong- most of the time, it only goes one way. It seems that you can’t have a performance with high PCS unless you have had multiple clean skates with a high TES. While I think having a clean skate should improve your PCS to some degree, landing all of your jumps doesn’t mean that you all of a sudden have a good skating skills and great transitions. Your PCS shouldn’t be based on reputation (and that goes both ways). If you look at Alina’s PCS scores this season, they have improved astronomically and it has simply come down to her technical consistency and reputation. And while I think she is far and away the best technical skater (at least when it comes to jumps) it is weird to me that within a few months, her PCS marks in all categories have gone up dramatically- as if she magically improved her skating skills, composition and performance execution in a matter of a few weeks. Judges have gifted plenty of skaters within the past decade generous PCS marks just because they’ve had solid technical consistency. However, it has rarely gone the other way. One of the only exceptions to this has been Carolina Kostner who has managed to receive high PCS marks despite her technical mishaps… and even then, everyone cries bloody murder when she receives high PCS. I’m not saying that Osmond should have won- the Russians were technically in another world- but in what universe do skaters like Kaetlyn and Satoko keep getting lower or equivalent PCS marks in competition. It’s not even about maturity at this point. The differences are clear and are under everyone’s noses. Alina and Evgenia have obvious strengths… but so do other skaters and these different strengths should be reflected in all of the skater’s marks. Everything is becoming to generalized and reliant on the TES. The whole point of having these two marks is to even the playing field for both technical and artistic skaters. Until judges start treating PCS marks seriously, they will continued to be viewed as bonus points. It’s funny how you guys mentioned the “cashing in your miles to get a PCS boost”… because that’s already true… Cash in your TES points to get higher PCS scores…
xjed1 this has bothered me too quite a bit. During her first gp event (I believe it was cup of china) Alina's pcs from her FS was around 68 and now it was around 75. Thats 7 points more in over few months and I don't really see much difference between her gp and olympic performance. It used to take years for skaters to earn those marks. Also another thing about components is that usually all different components are around the same. For examble if skaters transisions are about 9 then theirs other components (skating skills, presentation and so on) are around 9 as well. There isn't really difference between different components either.
@XED1...This was well said. you should post this on : www.rockerskating.com/news/2017/12/27/opining-on-the-isu-judging-system-5-calls-to-action, in the comments as Johnny wong has a note to the ISU on needed changes. However, I would like to point out this is not new and existed before the COP. in 96 Michelle became world champion and her presentation marks skyrocketed thanks to her technical consistency during the season, this was to the detriment of Lu Chen who out skated Kwan at World's but was not as technically consistent throughout the season by any means. The next year in 97 Kwan was not consistent but Tara Lipinksi was so Tara saw her presentation marks jump astronomically from early in the season until she was crowned world champion in 97. by world's her presentation marks were near Kwans. I am not sure if anyone has mentioned the PCS on the COPs has changed radically in terms of numbers given to top skaters. At the 2005 World's, Kwan, Cohen and Kostner had 6 and 7's across their PCS. Kwan and Cohen 6 and 7's!!!!!!!!!?????? and the winner Slutskaya was only in the 8's so what changed in how PCS has been awarded now. Have a look: www.isuresults.com/results/wc2005/wc05_Ladies_FS_scores.pdf
Ding ding ding. I think the Russian girls are absolutely amazing technically but how can a 15 year old have the same skating skill as Kostner boggles my mind. It’s simply not possible. I wish there is a computer program doing technical calls. I’m sure someday we will get there so that we don’t have certain people getting away with flutz and some don’t. None of these I think he/she did that quarter turn before he/she took off or not.
So disappointed in Mirai at these Olympics after the team event. She worked so hard these past 8 years and all her fans rooted for her for so long only to throw away this opportunity by not being motivated or concentrated in the individual event. Even more disappointed with all her quotes post the event. That kinesiology tape was so distracting and tacky- I can’t believe she wore it and brought down the integrity of her look and performance as a whole.
We all would love to see these american and canadian skaters to skate the same program Alina does with the 3lutz-3lo and all the jumps in the 2nd half.
I mean, this is just rude. “Look at Russian whole results at this Olympics”. Please remember that IOC did not invite a bunch of Russian athletes. Some of them were (and are) clear leaders in their sport and have never done doping. Clear examples are Ustyugov and Shipulin. Also, it s OK that your body changes when you don’t compete at the highest level anymore (like Radionova). So, TSL, you can do better with your guests.
Though what a mental image that would be. Mirai working through the night with magic markers coloring in her KT tape in time for the event. I'm guessing that USA tape was provided for free in the village because the company wants it to be visible.
This is my fav video by far from you guys. You did not disappoint. Love all the criticisms, innuendos, gossip, etc. That's what separate you guys from all the other figure skating commentary outlets. Tell us how you really feel Dave!!! Now let me go look up Eteri's students on youtube....
So by this logic, the better performer is the one who can do a more difficult combo? Zagitova is a super talented young performer, and gifted jumper, but her PCS should not be over 70. She's 15. What will they give her when she's 20 and more mature? She doesn't hold her positions/edges, and can barely do a port-de-bras. It's not ALL about the difficult jump combo. And I must prefer watching the height, distance, speed, arc, and flow of Osmond's 3F-3T.
What particular page of the code suggests that a skater cannot be a performer at 15 and that PCS should be determined by age? Zagitova is portraying Kitri, a young girl (not unlike herself) and, besides, Osmond is no artist herself (although her performance was far better than everything she's ever produced). Please don't bring the port-de-bras argument to the table, because Osmond's arm carriage is as unballetic as it can get, especially her swan flailing hands at the halfway mark.
US ladies need to work on their transitions and these girls needs to study and work the COP the way the Russians have cause really Medvedeva's skating is anything but artistic unless you call that bad acting slash high school play pantomime, artistry. btw, Eteri did try back loading Evgenia's program but it wasn't successful. CBC mentioned this. I think Satako can improve her jump height. she has more height now than she did before her injuries and health issues. But I think her jumps can be fixed with off ice training: lots of jump squats on boxes and weight training on her legs. mark my words her jumps will get higher. I am willing it to happen.
I found it distracting as well, but Mirai's kinesio tape on her groin definitely wasn't a publicity stunt. KT tape isn't used for aesthetic reasons. It's functional, not fashionable, and works support and stabilize traumatized muscles, and promote soft tissue healing. You place it where the injury is, not wherever it's going to look best. Not to mention, you can buy the USA printed tape at pretty much any sports store, and I'm sure it was readily available at the Games. Their conversation about it struck me as so ignorant.
Kaetlyn and Gabby are also known flutzers but judges cover their eyes in the short program in order to let them stay competitive. At least Evgenia has the decency to just do one flutz in the long program.
They put an exclamation mark on Katelyn's lutz(only in the FS actually) because she has the gall to do it twice... notice, it's the 3Lo jump that gives her the most fits so she does the lutz in the SP for consistency... what's more unfair, that Medvedeva's lutz is not called or that Kaetlyn goes out and does two of them knowing they aren't on a sure outside edge? Medvedeva is not trying to bullshit the judges and if there ever gets to be a point where they start putting Kaetlyn above her she should start doing the lutz in the SP.
That guy Doug Haw is incredibly bias. I mean what’s the point in inviting somebody who is not prepared to give a fair review? And that statement about Russians using doping? If you have some evidence - bring it. Otherwise it is just slander. Saying that this is his personal opinion doesn’t work there as he was not invited as a private person, but as a figure skating professional.
I agree Bradie can get us out of this funk... she just needs a little more maturity, she needs to take some acting classes, and she needs to stop tinkering around on her smartphone in all her spare time!!
I wish they would fix the points awarded to get rid of the back loading of the program. It's not artistic and just makes it so hard to compete against with a more beautiful program that was more balanced and artistic
teff s Yes, or atleast makes rule about how many jump elements can be performed the second half. I don't like if ladies skating goes to that all ladies start doing all their jumps in the second half. Also if you fall your jump in the second half you should not get the bonus.
Guys, I love your vids and recaps but being Russian this video felt like a slap on my face. I know you have mixed feelings about a lot of Russian skaters, but that was so vicious and aggressive. Why did you do that? Did it make you feel better? You blame 15 year old girls who plug away day and night in using drugs to enhance their performance. If I was Medvedeva or Zagitova, I'd take you to court for defamation. And I think you and this Mr. nobody-sucks-a-lot should apologise.
Also, if the reason for how tiny some of these girls are is drugs, then how come they go through puberty and then boom, their whole technique is fucked? The reason why they're so tiny is because they're KIDS and Eteri most likely only allows students with that specific body type to join/stay in her team (I mean, she let Daria, Tarakanova and Polina go last season and none of those skaters are of the tiny-super skinny type). There are PLENTY of other russian skaters who aren't tiny, they're just not making the headlines as much as eteri's kids.
I love this Doug guy....even with his Canadian biases. It's so much fun being privy to these technical discussions. Thank you guys for elevating the conversation!
Yes a lot of bias and sour as usual. I laughed when he said that Kaetlyn should have won with a technically way inferior free skate (at least compared to Zagitova on the bv) and a step-out on the flutz.
They don't do that to show off!!! That is how they train! If you train 110%, in competition it is easier to do 3-3. Do you research, listen to interviews. etc :)
I hope I can explain this but I feel this sense that when some skaters do well they talk about doing it for their country, representing the USA, etc. When they don't do well the narrative changes to, I was here for myself. I'm proud of it. I enjoyed the experience. etc. Defensive. I don't know. You WEREN'T there for yourself. You're there for the country. If it were me I think I would have a different tone when not skating my best.
THIS IS THE WORSE VIDEO GUYS!! It is sooooo anti russian. Please think about what you are saying. Some of these speculations are disgusting. I’m Canadian and this is completely discriminatory. Come on guys. You know better! First and foremost you are talking about children and you are grown men. Sour about your North American lose? Ehhhh
+mish098aimer it becomes anti-russian when you *always* complain about a russian that wins a major competition, (look at all their previous recaps) and then throwing shades against them and now even conspiracy theories on doping. And it's not exactly stating facts when you say that Kaetlyn should have won: she made three mistakes on the lutz (the landing and the edge on both lutzes from SP and LP), and her programs are easier technically than Alina's programs, plus she never showed that consistency you want to see from an Olympic Champion. We all know why she wasn't a contender here fot the gold medal so why arguing that? Alina's marks aren't coming out of nowhere, she played the mathematical game (the bv of both programs are substantially higher than the rest of the field), so when Dave talks about inflation for consistent russian skaters, he is intentionally ignoring the fact that Kaetlyn also got that push on the scores without even showing that consistency or more challenging programs. Her PB for the long program was 142, 10 points lower than what she got at the Olympics and almost 20 points lower than Medvedeva's PB. In football here in Europe, we say that when you lose you have to shut up, accept the result and learn why it happened and get better. In figure skating when an american or a canadian skater gets defeated is nothing but whining. I think you're better than this.
It's also amusing they accuse the Russians of doping because they are going to a German doctor in Germany. Obviously this Doctor (I assume Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt) is super dodgy. However a huge amount elite athletes from all over the world go to that particular doctor for "miracle cures" of their injuries, including a lot of Americans. But it's always the Russians that are suspicious.... And about the Russians barely winning medals, they had half of their team missing. Besides it's not like the Russians cleaned up at previous Olympics with a full team of "doped" athletes. It's all one big hypocritical and political mess.
then how is she able to compete in an adult competition.....should she have stayed home? If she wants to compete with the big girls, she needs to be a big girl!!
I didnt find the kt tape distracting as yes you see it with the cameras but not really from the people's views there in the audience . It was the one that kt tape branded for the olympics. I would have said go with a different color and no words . So many athletes use it now that it doesnt bother me.
LaFore Artis they are not directly judged on their appearance but how they intrepret the music and their emotions not how they look. If they were judged on appearance then that french skater should have lost tons of points for her costume malfunction. And bad costume choices would be downgraded but if you look at the points and what they stamd for physical appearance isnt one of them.
Mirai's comments were misconstrued in the media. Adam Rippon told her in order to encourage her before the free skate to skate like this was her audition for DWTS. And I feel like the focus on the USA tape seemed a bit harsh. It's a brand deal, like she's gotta eat lol.
They took Alina off the ice in a warm up to do a pee test from what I heard. Obviously they aren't doping. Maybe something else, but they were rigorously tested for doping.
LOL @ Karen Chen, why is she always making excuses for her performance? You can clearly see her skates in the playbacks that they did not have any issues. I'm sure she has backup skates going to the Olympics... Why wouldn't you for such an important event. She needs to stop crying and accept the reality that she's not consistent with her jumps. Maybe if she trains more and stop making excuses, she would be on the podium.
Boyang has the ugliest half loop, so did Sasha Cohen and Maria Butraskaya. it's weird this jump can have such ugly variations. Surya Bonaly of all people had a beautiful one: sweeping, high and powerful.
It's well known that over training and diet restrictions can delay puberty and development, especially in female athletes. Males don't do it as much because they want the muscle mass, but this has been super common in sports like Gymnastics, especially as the ceiling for difficulty rockets up. Svetlana Khorkina looked like a skeleton in 2003/4. Gracie Gold looked emaciated in 2014, so I wondered why people seemed surprised by her ED. Aside from that, it's been normal to see gymnasts balloon after they stop competing. Even make gymnasts have seen this happen, and some male skater's as well Elise "Boom Boom" Ray, Vanessa Atler, Alyssa Beckerman, etc. They all had drastic body changes after they stopped elite competition. Dave has followed gymnastics. This is common sense to him, so I'm absolutely shocked that he didn't push back harder on this issue/conspiracy theory. Also, I find this coach to be somewhat hypocritical. Won't talk about Chen's coach cause he's there to "support" her. Full on geo-political propaganda war against the Russians. Are Russians the new Jews, these days? Thank God you aren't German. The clichés would be "to die for." I'm not really Pro-Russian, but the incessant targeting of these athletes is getting a bit annoying. I'd think skaters like Medvedeva, given her track record, would be super targets for drug testing. As for the German doctor. Whose to say Alyona hasn't used him for years? No one seems to bring that up in pairs recaps. Is she doping? Is that how she's able to compete so long while other pair skater's are falling apart at the seams. This coverage seems incredibly lopsided, and not educational in the least. ---- Regarding Chen boot issues. Boot issues have nothing to do with how a boot "looks". I'd been through 6 pairs of boots in a year. If they hurt too much to wear, or you literally can't get a balanced mount with them, they don't work. How are you going to do loops or Axel's if your mount feels too inside? How are you going to do salchows or spin reliably if it feels too outside? Want to skate in a boot that kills your feet for hours a day? Bad boots can cause injuries that belie the "look" of the boot. That's not to mention how that affects your jumps and spins, since different boots can have different feel, footbed pitch, heel height, etc. It can wreck your timing, and it can cause you to develop bad compensatory habits since you're trying to get everything back for competition or training. I developed some pretty bad back and hip pain from this, which literally required me to stop skating for several weeks to allow to heal, in addition to physical therapy (probably more painful than the injury).
Very nice discussion panel, so many things to learn about figure skating. It is shameful that American skaters post "health or boot issues" on social media hoping for sympathy. It's an attitude problem, with the most troubling incident, Ashley Wagner calling Alina Zagitova a cheater. I'm sorry, that's not an athlete's spirit, that's just mean desperation and very bad publicity for American skating.
kaetly was waaaaay overscored in the free. that topped yuna kim’s 2010 score, *with* the flutzing and turnout! kaetlyn also doesn’t have the transitions that evgenia and alina has. i thought the medalists shoud have been evgenia-alina-satoko, in that order
Question: How big of a deal is it to a federation for one skater not make the FS when they've got two other strong skaters? Gabby's tragic FS not withstanding, Canada has two top Ladies. Then they've got a third slot and will potentially have one regularly going into the future. Does it matter, for Canada et al., if you send a Larkyn vs. an Alaine? If Larkyn is, like, 95% not gonna make the free, and Alaine is 50% not gonna make the free? Do we see them just giving it to whomever gets the Bronze at Nationals, or is there a more strategic way they might make use of their third slot (for Worlds as well as Olympics)?
I don't think the Russian's are flutzing because their method of bringing out skaters is so drastically different from the past, it totally makes sense and if I'm being completely honest, Eteri, as mean as she may seem, really doesn't seem like someone who would be doping. Homegirl has been through too much in the past to win by doping.
Not the Russians, just Medvedeva is flutzing. Zagitova, Sotskova, Tsurskaya and the skaters who competed internationally but didn't make the team (Radionova, Pogorilaya and especially Tutkamysheva) all have correct lutzes.
This was painful to watch. Should have had Alex Ouriashev on instead. This guy was more interested in promoting Canadians than anything. Osmond a faster spinner than Zagitova? Bradie having the fastest spins of the Americans? Is this guy totally blind, or something? Also, I said after last Olympics that this competition is the great equalizer. Judges boost components for new skaters in the Olympic season, do you can't really rely on reputation. There is no excuse for Zagitova components. Her edges are shallow as fuck, her posture is awful. The judges should have had her around 70 at best for the FS, and probably 31 or so in the SP. Her consistency is what's doing it. In order increase her scores, they have no choice but to boost the components. They're already throwing all of the GOE to her.
One thing I look for in spins is how effortless they seem - if the posture and positioning fits the character of the music and the changes in image feel natural and effortless; even if they lose a little speed towards the end, they don't seem to be struggling to keep up with the flow of the music and they can maintain a sense of ethereality, or effortless creativity, or whatever the artistic impression the choreography intends to form. Some very skilled spinners still spin in a way that makes me notice the bravura skill of the spin itself rather than making the spin seem like a natural outgrowth of the music. Medvedeva seems like all aspects of her choreography have become more musical and expressive - nothing is obviously framed by the choreography as the sole point of visual focus or importance, everything flows together in a gradual dramatic build.
Also, "what's the big deal about backloading?" reveals a lack of value placed in choreography. The variety and intricacy of different kinds of movement mixed together is part of what makes a program exciting and engaging - interesting transitions like Yuna Kim's Ina Bauer into a double axel that she did in her Vancouver program maintain a sense of creative invention throughout the program. So that even big technical fireworks are connected to the musicality of the program and what it's trying to express.
Great recaps! Love Doug. Love you both also as you well know. I had a visceral reaction to Kaetlyn's skating in this Olympics. I didn't expect that. I agree that Medvedeva is looking really weak and thin and that Zagitova would be great in a different coaching/ choreographing situation. Also get some help for Bradie and Karen.
LaFore Artis Michelle Kwan flutzed. Does that Make Frank any less of a coach? Gracie Hole lipped. Does that make Alex O. Any less of a technician. Have you seen Nathan Chen's 3A? Doesn't that make Raf. a bad technician. Welcome to a world where people have elements that are simply hard for them, personally.
No wonder why they'd like to ban the Russians in the Winter Olympics because they knew they don't have a chance of Gold or Silver in figure skating. They can try but the Gold and Silver still belong to the 2 Russians.
Doug says the olympics is “faster, higher, stronger”...so why don’t we just throw out the pcs and technical GOEs. That was just a ridiculous sentiment.
So, Osmond's should flutz and step out her way to the gold because faster, higher, stronger, she's the superior artist because she's a grown ass woman and the Russians are being doped up by the German doctor (that is until the puberty bug kicks in and they're thrown under a bus). I also learned that Carolina used to have a flutz but she fixed it. This show has reached a new low. Even for you guys, that's cheap.
Osmond and Nagasu are reminiscent of the era when ladies skaters actually left the ice when jumping. Today most of them jump on the ice like they are warming up in sneakers backstage. Btw, are you guys saying that the Russians are doping but the Olympic officials overlooked their positive test results because they were the frontrunners in the ladies field? Or are you saying they are taking drugs that don't show up in testing?
Also the reason Brady rotates that way is because she turns her body forward before the take-off of everything (in a way unlike most skater's). The issue with Miyahara jumps is how much on ice prerotation she gets. Almost a full rotation on her toe jumps. That is way too much. Shoma Uno has the same issue on his quad flip (among others). Both of them should be dinged for this. It is NEVER mentioned by anyone. They just say "jumps were around, shut up about it." Technical conversation should cover the details. Less Russo-bashing. I thought that was the point of the Skating Lesson. Now it's just "Skating's Wendy Williams Show." Pogorilaya won a World Bronze with her "new body." Her body was not her main issue. Jonathan is starting to get annoying with his constant interruptions and fangirling.
Pff )) up to the point when they started talking about pharmaceuticals stopping weight gain and development in Russian teenage skaters I took this talk as biased, but seriously))) my bad)) Like really? You can't grasp the idea that a teenage girl may want to win so much that she is on a strict diet and "war mode", and then the stress, and then simply the puberty factor?) Have you never known a teenage girl before?)) Then, Medvedeva is just naturally thin, she seems to be struggling to gain muscle weight actually, this might be one of the reasons why she comes off as "flimsy" - not enough muscle power. And with Lipnitskaya it's a known fact she has (had?) weight problems & related eating disorder. She talked about it openly. The stress of the Olympics made it worse. Eteri's team just needs some good work in this field, let the girls grow into women, get psycological help and accept changes. Bad manners. Really bad manners and spite. Osmond has great supporters I see, ready to besmirch anyone to justify why she's better.
Who came up with not allowing Russian athletes to compete under their country name and not allowing their national anthem to be played if they win gold medal?? That is humiliating and shameful.
obviously Kaetlyn should have won. I don't even like her or her program but that was night and day with the Russians. I also think Miyahara should have been on the podium. In spite of the jumps, her programs should have saved her.
I don't know, Evgenia had more personality and passion in her program, artistically I think she was better than Osmond who was a little more reserved in her presentation (which did fit her choreography to be fair). Just my preference. The miming touches were actually really well integrated into the overall choreographic build of the program.
By which I mean, they didn't interrupt the musical pacing/tempo/or melody but rather matched all those things. I thought that was quite inventive and clever, a smart touch which worked in this case.
Evgenia can't skate or extend though. Her musicality is superficial and her interpretation is on par with telenovelas acting. She did have more personality and passion than Zagitova though so that's why bronze would have been fair.
Thank you for this recap, I appreciated the panel's insights.
Speaking of Medvedeva's flutz, I'm still bitter about it since the tech panel always dinged Mao Asada's flutz.
2:22 - Karen Chen
12:09 - Mirai Nagasu
19:21 - Bradie Tennell
25:45 - Gabby Daleman
29:40 - Kaetlyn Osmond
33:27 - Evgenia Medvedeva
47:30 - Maria Sotskova
50:45 - Alina Zagitova
(54:20 - Back to Sotskova)
55:57 - Satoko Miyahara
1:00:23 - Kaori Sakamoto
1:02:05 - Doug's Ranking
1:04:05 - Carolina Kostner
1:06:02 - Moment of the event/ mine is Alina's save of her 3Lz+3Lo too! SAVAGE!!!
1:08:40 - Dabin Choi
Anyone else notice the atrocious double-standard between male and female athletes... Or at least male and female figure skaters?
I began to notice this at Sochi with Ashley and now it's become even clearer with Mirai (and Ashley, even though she wasn't competing) at Pyeongchang. People give female athletes a tough time for every perceived misstep. I love Adam and I enjoy watching these big personalities having a moment to shine, but compare Adam to Mirai, or to Ashley. People are still absolutely vicious about Ashley's placement to the team, and it's very common to see people say that she "stole" the spot from Mirai... Whereas I've never seen anyone claim that Adam "stole" anything from Ross. Adam has been attention-seeking to the point of being downright cocky, yet Mirai's momentary glitches have been blown so out of proportion. Meanwhile Ashley's been fending off the beasts on social media who're going batshit over her perfectly normal tweets about Alina's backloading or Boyjing's lack of transitions.
Mirai and Adam both skated the long in the Team to help the USA win Bronze, and Mirai and Adam each placed 10th overall in the individual, but everyone's acting like Adam represented the US to the max and that Mirai has been an embarrassment and possibly insane. I've seen so many people on Facebook/Twitter saying how Adam is so "fabulous" and such a breath of fresh air and how his media presence is awesome and how Mirai and/or Ashley need to STFU. Such double standards!!!
I've yet to see anyone criticize Adam's More-Applause-Please moment at the end of his FS. Just imagine if Ashley'd done that.
Thank you!! It's like the female athletes aren't allowed to be real humans with minds and opinions. And nice name.
Carlena Moss Why thank you! In my book, she and Yuna are co-Queens :-)
I know... Everyone just adores him! And after that one possibly-weird-but-not-really-and-also-misquoted interview from Mirai, she's gone silent...
Late reply but omg yeah Adam's "More-Applause-Please" moment (lol) was probably the most cringe-worthy moment of the Olympics. I agree with you on the double standards.
My another issue with Medvedeva's flutz is that she takes off with the full blade, not the toe. Same issue with her flip.
Her jump technique is just bad.
Must be from Tutberidze. Now Shcherbakova has this problem and never gets marked off for it, so why change I guess…
@@yugiohlegend it’s totally that camp, look at Kamila’s flip or lutz. She rotates almost a whole rotation on ice with full blade before she takes off omg
Here from the year 2022 and the comments from around 45:00 are now verified
44:55 It’s now 2023 and in hindsight, Doug Haw was onto something.
I usually love your videos but this one was hard to watch. Mr. Doug Haw seems a bit too biased.. and because of that, many of the things he explained sounded unreliable. I don't like him as a guest sorry.
another reason medvedeva has such a bad flutz is because of the way she uses her toe pick. she doesn't pick with her back leg straight, and the extra movement causes her to lose the edge
I thought Zagitova was phenomenal. She deserved the Olympic Gold but I would have put Osmond second because Medvedeva is overrated on the technical side all the time.
but underrated in her expression of the program
yeah, i remember how electrifying and fun it was to watch zagitova do jump after jump in the second half esp when she added back that loop on that second lutz
Osmond😆😆😆 You must be kidding😄
@@giorgininoshvili62 skating with your mouth open the entire time isn't expression. But in all fairness, she didnt deserve second. How can you medal if you don't have a lutz?
I have been refreshing like a maniac these past few days. Thank you for restoring my sanity ^^
While the IJS has quite a few issues… My main problem with the entire system is that the correlation between PCS and TES is WAY too strong- most of the time, it only goes one way. It seems that you can’t have a performance with high PCS unless you have had multiple clean skates with a high TES. While I think having a clean skate should improve your PCS to some degree, landing all of your jumps doesn’t mean that you all of a sudden have a good skating skills and great transitions. Your PCS shouldn’t be based on reputation (and that goes both ways). If you look at Alina’s PCS scores this season, they have improved astronomically and it has simply come down to her technical consistency and reputation. And while I think she is far and away the best technical skater (at least when it comes to jumps) it is weird to me that within a few months, her PCS marks in all categories have gone up dramatically- as if she magically improved her skating skills, composition and performance execution in a matter of a few weeks.
Judges have gifted plenty of skaters within the past decade generous PCS marks just because they’ve had solid technical consistency. However, it has rarely gone the other way. One of the only exceptions to this has been Carolina Kostner who has managed to receive high PCS marks despite her technical mishaps… and even then, everyone cries bloody murder when she receives high PCS. I’m not saying that Osmond should have won- the Russians were technically in another world- but in what universe do skaters like Kaetlyn and Satoko keep getting lower or equivalent PCS marks in competition. It’s not even about maturity at this point. The differences are clear and are under everyone’s noses. Alina and Evgenia have obvious strengths… but so do other skaters and these different strengths should be reflected in all of the skater’s marks. Everything is becoming to generalized and reliant on the TES.
The whole point of having these two marks is to even the playing field for both technical and artistic skaters. Until judges start treating PCS marks seriously, they will continued to be viewed as bonus points. It’s funny how you guys mentioned the “cashing in your miles to get a PCS boost”… because that’s already true… Cash in your TES points to get higher PCS scores…
xjed1 this has bothered me too quite a bit. During her first gp event (I believe it was cup of china) Alina's pcs from her FS was around 68 and now it was around 75. Thats 7 points more in over few months and I don't really see much difference between her gp and olympic performance. It used to take years for skaters to earn those marks.
Also another thing about components is that usually all different components are around the same. For examble if skaters transisions are about 9 then theirs other components (skating skills, presentation and so on) are around 9 as well. There isn't really difference between different components either.
i completely agree! very well said. i think this has increased with the new system - there used to be a bigger gap with the 6.0 system
@XED1...This was well said. you should post this on : www.rockerskating.com/news/2017/12/27/opining-on-the-isu-judging-system-5-calls-to-action, in the comments as Johnny wong has a note to the ISU on needed changes. However, I would like to point out this is not new and existed before the COP. in 96 Michelle became world champion and her presentation marks skyrocketed thanks to her technical consistency during the season, this was to the detriment of Lu Chen who out skated Kwan at World's but was not as technically consistent throughout the season by any means. The next year in 97 Kwan was not consistent but Tara Lipinksi was so Tara saw her presentation marks jump astronomically from early in the season until she was crowned world champion in 97. by world's her presentation marks were near Kwans. I am not sure if anyone has mentioned the PCS on the COPs has changed radically in terms of numbers given to top skaters. At the 2005 World's, Kwan, Cohen and Kostner had 6 and 7's across their PCS. Kwan and Cohen 6 and 7's!!!!!!!!!?????? and the winner Slutskaya was only in the 8's so what changed in how PCS has been awarded now. Have a look: www.isuresults.com/results/wc2005/wc05_Ladies_FS_scores.pdf
Ding ding ding. I think the Russian girls are absolutely amazing technically but how can a 15 year old have the same skating skill as Kostner boggles my mind. It’s simply not possible. I wish there is a computer program doing technical calls. I’m sure someday we will get there so that we don’t have certain people getting away with flutz and some don’t. None of these I think he/she did that quarter turn before he/she took off or not.
So disappointed in Mirai at these Olympics after the team event. She worked so hard these past 8 years and all her fans rooted for her for so long only to throw away this opportunity by not being motivated or concentrated in the individual event. Even more disappointed with all her quotes post the event. That kinesiology tape was so distracting and tacky- I can’t believe she wore it and brought down the integrity of her look and performance as a whole.
Sick of Karen’s boot problems, excuses, weak mentality and enabling coach.
she needs a coaching change. Love to see her with John Nicks or Raf.
Thank god someone said it
Obviously a Canadian coach feels Osmond should have won the gold. Was he watching the same event as the rest of us?
Yes, he was. I was too, and I agree with him. Kaetlyn should have gotten gold. That she came nowhere close to even silver is a travesty of judging.
DAVE your face at 1:07:32 says it all about your guest ;)
They did not put the ! on Osmond's 3Lz in the SP, only in the FS.
We all would love to see these american and canadian skaters to skate the same program Alina does with the 3lutz-3lo and all the jumps in the 2nd half.
I mean, this is just rude. “Look at Russian whole results at this Olympics”. Please remember that IOC did not invite a bunch of Russian athletes. Some of them were (and are) clear leaders in their sport and have never done doping. Clear examples are Ustyugov and Shipulin.
Also, it s OK that your body changes when you don’t compete at the highest level anymore (like Radionova).
So, TSL, you can do better with your guests.
Mirai's tape was branded that way. She did not write it herself according to the Washington Post
spamisyuckie You are correct. It is made like that. I use KT tape quite frequently and I just wanted to point out that it does come in beige colour...
Though what a mental image that would be. Mirai working through the night with magic markers coloring in her KT tape in time for the event. I'm guessing that USA tape was provided for free in the village because the company wants it to be visible.
This is my fav video by far from you guys. You did not disappoint. Love all the criticisms, innuendos, gossip, etc. That's what separate you guys from all the other figure skating commentary outlets. Tell us how you really feel Dave!!! Now let me go look up Eteri's students on youtube....
I feel for Karen about the boot problems, but she needs to hush about them. They don't need to be posting pre-competition excuses.
I feel like a lot of this commentary is biased towards Osmond.
And now they're suggesting there's an Eteri doping conspiracy.
AGREE!!!
I agree. She got a well earned bronze medal. She didn’t deserve more.
Let it go, Doug. Zagitova’s triple triple is much more difficult and impressive that Osmond’s. Much.
So by this logic, the better performer is the one who can do a more difficult combo? Zagitova is a super talented young performer, and gifted jumper, but her PCS should not be over 70. She's 15. What will they give her when she's 20 and more mature? She doesn't hold her positions/edges, and can barely do a port-de-bras. It's not ALL about the difficult jump combo. And I must prefer watching the height, distance, speed, arc, and flow of Osmond's 3F-3T.
ManuelPabloArnao agreed!
What particular page of the code suggests that a skater cannot be a performer at 15 and that PCS should be determined by age? Zagitova is portraying Kitri, a young girl (not unlike herself) and, besides, Osmond is no artist herself (although her performance was far better than everything she's ever produced). Please don't bring the port-de-bras argument to the table, because Osmond's arm carriage is as unballetic as it can get, especially her swan flailing hands at the halfway mark.
Ian D Page 134
Jonathan Monro welcome to sports. Difficulty and virtuosity matter... A lot.
US ladies need to work on their transitions and these girls needs to study and work the COP the way the Russians have cause really Medvedeva's skating is anything but artistic unless you call that bad acting slash high school play pantomime, artistry. btw, Eteri did try back loading Evgenia's program but it wasn't successful. CBC mentioned this. I think Satako can improve her jump height. she has more height now than she did before her injuries and health issues. But I think her jumps can be fixed with off ice training: lots of jump squats on boxes and weight training on her legs. mark my words her jumps will get higher. I am willing it to happen.
Satoko is amazing. Her spins are so mesmerizing and she had that delicate romantic beauty that was perfect for the florid opera music.
I found it distracting as well, but Mirai's kinesio tape on her groin definitely wasn't a publicity stunt. KT tape isn't used for aesthetic reasons. It's functional, not fashionable, and works support and stabilize traumatized muscles, and promote soft tissue healing. You place it where the injury is, not wherever it's going to look best. Not to mention, you can buy the USA printed tape at pretty much any sports store, and I'm sure it was readily available at the Games. Their conversation about it struck me as so ignorant.
THANK YOU FOR calling out Flutzdeveda’s major and egregiously ignored FLUTZ. More people should be OUTRAGED at her consistently inflated scores.
Kaetlyn and Gabby are also known flutzers but judges cover their eyes in the short program in order to let them stay competitive.
At least Evgenia has the decency to just do one flutz in the long program.
Kaetlyn - yes. But at least she gets "!" (usually). But Gabby? She has problems with flip! Not lutz 😂 And she gets 3Fe
Agree! Everyone and every time the problem occurs. But judges have favorites...unfortunately.
Bright Darkness only satoko gets called.
They put an exclamation mark on Katelyn's lutz(only in the FS actually) because she has the gall to do it twice... notice, it's the 3Lo jump that gives her the most fits so she does the lutz in the SP for consistency... what's more unfair, that Medvedeva's lutz is not called or that Kaetlyn goes out and does two of them knowing they aren't on a sure outside edge? Medvedeva is not trying to bullshit the judges and if there ever gets to be a point where they start putting Kaetlyn above her she should start doing the lutz in the SP.
That guy Doug Haw is incredibly bias. I mean what’s the point in inviting somebody who is not prepared to give a fair review? And that statement about Russians using doping? If you have some evidence - bring it. Otherwise it is just slander. Saying that this is his personal opinion doesn’t work there as he was not invited as a private person, but as a figure skating professional.
I agree Bradie can get us out of this funk... she just needs a little more maturity, she needs to take some acting classes, and she needs to stop tinkering around on her smartphone in all her spare time!!
I wish they would fix the points awarded to get rid of the back loading of the program. It's not artistic and just makes it so hard to compete against with a more beautiful program that was more balanced and artistic
teff s Yes, or atleast makes rule about how many jump elements can be performed the second half. I don't like if ladies skating goes to that all ladies start doing all their jumps in the second half. Also if you fall your jump in the second half you should not get the bonus.
teff s I think they should change the rule to there must be jump(s) in both halves
Guys, I love your vids and recaps but being Russian this video felt like a slap on my face. I know you have mixed feelings about a lot of Russian skaters, but that was so vicious and aggressive. Why did you do that? Did it make you feel better? You blame 15 year old girls who plug away day and night in using drugs to enhance their performance. If I was Medvedeva or Zagitova, I'd take you to court for defamation. And I think you and this Mr. nobody-sucks-a-lot should apologise.
Also, if the reason for how tiny some of these girls are is drugs, then how come they go through puberty and then boom, their whole technique is fucked? The reason why they're so tiny is because they're KIDS and Eteri most likely only allows students with that specific body type to join/stay in her team (I mean, she let Daria, Tarakanova and Polina go last season and none of those skaters are of the tiny-super skinny type). There are PLENTY of other russian skaters who aren't tiny, they're just not making the headlines as much as eteri's kids.
You can't sue for defamation if you have a flutz 😂
I love this Doug guy....even with his Canadian biases. It's so much fun being privy to these technical discussions. Thank you guys for elevating the conversation!
Doug Haw... 1:03:05 Evgenia and Zagitova can do 3-3-3-3-3...what were you saying about osmond doing 4th 5th Jumps? Ohhh doubles ?? Haha
Yes a lot of bias and sour as usual. I laughed when he said that Kaetlyn should have won with a technically way inferior free skate (at least compared to Zagitova on the bv) and a step-out on the flutz.
They don't do that to show off!!! That is how they train! If you train 110%, in competition it is easier to do 3-3. Do you research, listen to interviews. etc :)
Osmond's skating is miles ahead of Alina's shallow edges, and Med's barely made and muscled low jumps.
Zach Schultz That's because Evgenia is starving.
Miyahara was robbed!
I hope I can explain this but I feel this sense that when some skaters do well they talk about doing it for their country, representing the USA, etc. When they don't do well the narrative changes to, I was here for myself. I'm proud of it. I enjoyed the experience. etc. Defensive. I don't know. You WEREN'T there for yourself. You're there for the country. If it were me I think I would have a different tone when not skating my best.
THIS IS THE WORSE VIDEO GUYS!! It is sooooo anti russian. Please think about what you are saying. Some of these speculations are disgusting.
I’m Canadian and this is completely discriminatory. Come on guys. You know better!
First and foremost you are talking about children and you are grown men.
Sour about your North American lose? Ehhhh
+mish098aimer it becomes anti-russian when you *always* complain about a russian that wins a major competition, (look at all their previous recaps) and then throwing shades against them and now even conspiracy theories on doping.
And it's not exactly stating facts when you say that Kaetlyn should have won: she made three mistakes on the lutz (the landing and the edge on both lutzes from SP and LP), and her programs are easier technically than Alina's programs, plus she never showed that consistency you want to see from an Olympic Champion. We all know why she wasn't a contender here fot the gold medal so why arguing that?
Alina's marks aren't coming out of nowhere, she played the mathematical game (the bv of both programs are substantially higher than the rest of the field), so when Dave talks about inflation for consistent russian skaters, he is intentionally ignoring the fact that Kaetlyn also got that push on the scores without even showing that consistency or more challenging programs. Her PB for the long program was 142, 10 points lower than what she got at the Olympics and almost 20 points lower than Medvedeva's PB.
In football here in Europe, we say that when you lose you have to shut up, accept the result and learn why it happened and get better. In figure skating when an american or a canadian skater gets defeated is nothing but whining. I think you're better than this.
It's also amusing they accuse the Russians of doping because they are going to a German doctor in Germany.
Obviously this Doctor (I assume Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt) is super dodgy. However a huge amount elite athletes from all over the world go to that particular doctor for "miracle cures" of their injuries, including a lot of Americans. But it's always the Russians that are suspicious....
And about the Russians barely winning medals, they had half of their team missing. Besides it's not like the Russians cleaned up at previous Olympics with a full team of "doped" athletes. It's all one big hypocritical and political mess.
Alina is a kid
then how is she able to compete in an adult competition.....should she have stayed home? If she wants to compete with the big girls, she needs to be a big girl!!
Im not buying your comment.
I didnt find the kt tape distracting as yes you see it with the cameras but not really from the people's views there in the audience . It was the one that kt tape branded for the olympics. I would have said go with a different color and no words . So many athletes use it now that it doesnt bother me.
LaFore Artis they are not directly judged on their appearance but how they intrepret the music and their emotions not how they look. If they were judged on appearance then that french skater should have lost tons of points for her costume malfunction. And bad costume choices would be downgraded but if you look at the points and what they stamd for physical appearance isnt one of them.
I agree Russians are overscored...but i don't agree that Katelyn should have been first.
Mirai's comments were misconstrued in the media. Adam Rippon told her in order to encourage her before the free skate to skate like this was her audition for DWTS. And I feel like the focus on the USA tape seemed a bit harsh. It's a brand deal, like she's gotta eat lol.
Karen Chen really need to change her coach
Bravo on a great Olympics fellas 👏🏻💐
They took Alina off the ice in a warm up to do a pee test from what I heard. Obviously they aren't doping. Maybe something else, but they were rigorously tested for doping.
Would love hear your insights on the Mishin/Huth situation with Carolina and why she can’t get the triple flip/triple toe down.
LOL @ Karen Chen, why is she always making excuses for her performance? You can clearly see her skates in the playbacks that they did not have any issues. I'm sure she has backup skates going to the Olympics... Why wouldn't you for such an important event. She needs to stop crying and accept the reality that she's not consistent with her jumps. Maybe if she trains more and stop making excuses, she would be on the podium.
Boyang has the ugliest half loop, so did Sasha Cohen and Maria Butraskaya. it's weird this jump can have such ugly variations. Surya Bonaly of all people had a beautiful one: sweeping, high and powerful.
vistaprime Ironically, Tara Lipinski had a really good half loop. I agree most are ugly, and there's quite a variation to them.
I’ve never clicked a video so fast in my fucking life, I literally threw the book I was reading.
I TOTALLY DISAGREE! ZAIGTOVA AND MEDEVEDEVA WERE MUCH MORE BETTER THAN OSMOND AND THESE GUYS SHOULD FACE IT
They are biased and insane. Zagitova and Medvedeva had nearly perfect performances and she missed a lutz... not only that but it was plain af.
Saying that Osmond deserved to win is insane. I don't even think her teamates thought she deserved to win xd
It's well known that over training and diet restrictions can delay puberty and development, especially in female athletes. Males don't do it as much because they want the muscle mass, but this has been super common in sports like Gymnastics, especially as the ceiling for difficulty rockets up.
Svetlana Khorkina looked like a skeleton in 2003/4. Gracie Gold looked emaciated in 2014, so I wondered why people seemed surprised by her ED.
Aside from that, it's been normal to see gymnasts balloon after they stop competing. Even make gymnasts have seen this happen, and some male skater's as well Elise "Boom Boom" Ray, Vanessa Atler, Alyssa Beckerman, etc. They all had drastic body changes after they stopped elite competition.
Dave has followed gymnastics. This is common sense to him, so I'm absolutely shocked that he didn't push back harder on this issue/conspiracy theory. Also, I find this coach to be somewhat hypocritical. Won't talk about Chen's coach cause he's there to "support" her. Full on geo-political propaganda war against the Russians.
Are Russians the new Jews, these days? Thank God you aren't German. The clichés would be "to die for."
I'm not really Pro-Russian, but the incessant targeting of these athletes is getting a bit annoying. I'd think skaters like Medvedeva, given her track record, would be super targets for drug testing.
As for the German doctor. Whose to say Alyona hasn't used him for years? No one seems to bring that up in pairs recaps. Is she doping? Is that how she's able to compete so long while other pair skater's are falling apart at the seams.
This coverage seems incredibly lopsided, and not educational in the least.
----
Regarding Chen boot issues. Boot issues have nothing to do with how a boot "looks". I'd been through 6 pairs of boots in a year. If they hurt too much to wear, or you literally can't get a balanced mount with them, they don't work. How are you going to do loops or Axel's if your mount feels too inside? How are you going to do salchows or spin reliably if it feels too outside? Want to skate in a boot that kills your feet for hours a day? Bad boots can cause injuries that belie the "look" of the boot.
That's not to mention how that affects your jumps and spins, since different boots can have different feel, footbed pitch, heel height, etc. It can wreck your timing, and it can cause you to develop bad compensatory habits since you're trying to get everything back for competition or training.
I developed some pretty bad back and hip pain from this, which literally required me to stop skating for several weeks to allow to heal, in addition to physical therapy (probably more painful than the injury).
Very nice discussion panel, so many things to learn about figure skating. It is shameful that American skaters post "health or boot issues" on social media hoping for sympathy. It's an attitude problem, with the most troubling incident, Ashley Wagner calling Alina Zagitova a cheater. I'm sorry, that's not an athlete's spirit, that's just mean desperation and very bad publicity for American skating.
Please have Patrick Chan (Pchiddy) on the show!!!
Evan Perilstein calm down he’s a talented skater and a genuinely nice guy.
kaetly was waaaaay overscored in the free. that topped yuna kim’s 2010 score, *with* the flutzing and turnout! kaetlyn also doesn’t have the transitions that evgenia and alina has. i thought the medalists shoud have been evgenia-alina-satoko, in that order
yosily I actually agree. Not sure how sayoko didn't win the bronze, provided her jumps were around.
Question: How big of a deal is it to a federation for one skater not make the FS when they've got two other strong skaters?
Gabby's tragic FS not withstanding, Canada has two top Ladies. Then they've got a third slot and will potentially have one regularly going into the future.
Does it matter, for Canada et al., if you send a Larkyn vs. an Alaine? If Larkyn is, like, 95% not gonna make the free, and Alaine is 50% not gonna make the free? Do we see them just giving it to whomever gets the Bronze at Nationals, or is there a more strategic way they might make use of their third slot (for Worlds as well as Olympics)?
I don't think the Russian's are flutzing because their method of bringing out skaters is so drastically different from the past, it totally makes sense and if I'm being completely honest, Eteri, as mean as she may seem, really doesn't seem like someone who would be doping. Homegirl has been through too much in the past to win by doping.
Not the Russians, just Medvedeva is flutzing. Zagitova, Sotskova, Tsurskaya and the skaters who competed internationally but didn't make the team (Radionova, Pogorilaya and especially Tutkamysheva) all have correct lutzes.
and yet...
This was painful to watch. Should have had Alex Ouriashev on instead. This guy was more interested in promoting Canadians than anything. Osmond a faster spinner than Zagitova? Bradie having the fastest spins of the Americans?
Is this guy totally blind, or something?
Also, I said after last Olympics that this competition is the great equalizer. Judges boost components for new skaters in the Olympic season, do you can't really rely on reputation. There is no excuse for Zagitova components. Her edges are shallow as fuck, her posture is awful. The judges should have had her around 70 at best for the FS, and probably 31 or so in the SP. Her consistency is what's doing it. In order increase her scores, they have no choice but to boost the components. They're already throwing all of the GOE to her.
One thing I look for in spins is how effortless they seem - if the posture and positioning fits the character of the music and the changes in image feel natural and effortless; even if they lose a little speed towards the end, they don't seem to be struggling to keep up with the flow of the music and they can maintain a sense of ethereality, or effortless creativity, or whatever the artistic impression the choreography intends to form. Some very skilled spinners still spin in a way that makes me notice the bravura skill of the spin itself rather than making the spin seem like a natural outgrowth of the music. Medvedeva seems like all aspects of her choreography have become more musical and expressive - nothing is obviously framed by the choreography as the sole point of visual focus or importance, everything flows together in a gradual dramatic build.
Also, "what's the big deal about backloading?" reveals a lack of value placed in choreography. The variety and intricacy of different kinds of movement mixed together is part of what makes a program exciting and engaging - interesting transitions like Yuna Kim's Ina Bauer into a double axel that she did in her Vancouver program maintain a sense of creative invention throughout the program. So that even big technical fireworks are connected to the musicality of the program and what it's trying to express.
Great recaps! Love Doug. Love you both also as you well know. I had a visceral reaction to Kaetlyn's skating in this Olympics. I didn't expect that. I agree that Medvedeva is looking really weak and thin and that Zagitova would be great in a different coaching/ choreographing situation. Also get some help for Bradie and Karen.
Where is Robin Wagner? She was amazing with Sarah and did a great job with Sasha in the one year that she was with her.
Where is Audrey Wisseger? She was such an amazing coach. Haven’t seen her in ages.
LaFore Artis He actually landed 3 clean quads in competition
LaFore Artis Michelle Kwan flutzed. Does that Make Frank any less of a coach? Gracie Hole lipped. Does that make Alex O. Any less of a technician. Have you seen Nathan Chen's 3A? Doesn't that make Raf. a bad technician.
Welcome to a world where people have elements that are simply hard for them, personally.
LaFore Artis I actually meant Robin Wagner, not Audrey 😂
Tgfgh Unghj LaFore Artis I actually meant Robin Wagner, not Audrey 😂
No wonder why they'd like to ban the Russians in the Winter Olympics because they knew they don't have a chance of Gold or Silver in figure skating. They can try but the Gold and Silver still belong to the 2 Russians.
Doug says the olympics is “faster, higher, stronger”...so why don’t we just throw out the pcs and technical GOEs. That was just a ridiculous sentiment.
Manipulating scores?
"A date with grace" - Fantastic :)
KT Tape has had USA Branded Tape for along time. This wasn't something Mirai created.
Doug and I have the same podium order! Kaetlyn brought a high level of maturity and finesse to her programs.
Finally!!!! Lol thanks guys
This queen from Canada is A LOT.
Kinda love him, kinda cannot with the Canada 🇨🇦 drooling.
But he’s right about the doping in Russia.
So, Osmond's should flutz and step out her way to the gold because faster, higher, stronger, she's the superior artist because she's a grown ass woman and the Russians are being doped up by the German doctor (that is until the puberty bug kicks in and they're thrown under a bus). I also learned that Carolina used to have a flutz but she fixed it.
This show has reached a new low. Even for you guys, that's cheap.
Peace! Do you fellows watch kola king’s videos? Koola says the judges are not fair. And ice skating is now no longer a sport.
No no no stop 1:04:40. Carolina has NEVER had a FLAT Edge on lutz. Simply she struggled to complete the jump but not with the edge for sure.
Osmond and Nagasu are reminiscent of the era when ladies skaters actually left the ice when jumping. Today most of them jump on the ice like they are warming up in sneakers backstage. Btw, are you guys saying that the Russians are doping but the Olympic officials overlooked their positive test results because they were the frontrunners in the ladies field? Or are you saying they are taking drugs that don't show up in testing?
Or Tessa and Scott again!!
Also the reason Brady rotates that way is because she turns her body forward before the take-off of everything (in a way unlike most skater's).
The issue with Miyahara jumps is how much on ice prerotation she gets. Almost a full rotation on her toe jumps. That is way too much. Shoma Uno has the same issue on his quad flip (among others). Both of them should be dinged for this. It is NEVER mentioned by anyone. They just say "jumps were around, shut up about it." Technical conversation should cover the details. Less Russo-bashing. I thought that was the point of the Skating Lesson. Now it's just "Skating's Wendy Williams Show."
Pogorilaya won a World Bronze with her "new body." Her body was not her main issue.
Jonathan is starting to get annoying with his constant interruptions and fangirling.
Pogo has the ugliest half loop tho
Pff )) up to the point when they started talking about pharmaceuticals stopping weight gain and development in Russian teenage skaters I took this talk as biased, but seriously))) my bad))
Like really? You can't grasp the idea that a teenage girl may want to win so much that she is on a strict diet and "war mode", and then the stress, and then simply the puberty factor?) Have you never known a teenage girl before?))
Then, Medvedeva is just naturally thin, she seems to be struggling to gain muscle weight actually, this might be one of the reasons why she comes off as "flimsy" - not enough muscle power.
And with Lipnitskaya it's a known fact she has (had?) weight problems & related eating disorder. She talked about it openly. The stress of the Olympics made it worse.
Eteri's team just needs some good work in this field, let the girls grow into women, get psycological help and accept changes.
Bad manners. Really bad manners and spite.
Osmond has great supporters I see, ready to besmirch anyone to justify why she's better.
Haha! That was fun :)
I need to get this off my chest but David lease looks like a white icejjfish.
Who came up with not allowing Russian athletes to compete under their country name and not allowing their national anthem to be played if they win gold medal?? That is humiliating and shameful.
Their doping programme? Killing their own athletes for fleeting glory?
obviously Kaetlyn should have won. I don't even like her or her program but that was night and day with the Russians. I also think Miyahara should have been on the podium. In spite of the jumps, her programs should have saved her.
Daphen axa 100%. Should have been 1. Osmond 2. Miyahara 3. Medvedeva
agreed!
I don't know, Evgenia had more personality and passion in her program, artistically I think she was better than Osmond who was a little more reserved in her presentation (which did fit her choreography to be fair). Just my preference. The miming touches were actually really well integrated into the overall choreographic build of the program.
By which I mean, they didn't interrupt the musical pacing/tempo/or melody but rather matched all those things. I thought that was quite inventive and clever, a smart touch which worked in this case.
Evgenia can't skate or extend though. Her musicality is superficial and her interpretation is on par with telenovelas acting. She did have more personality and passion than Zagitova though so that's why bronze would have been fair.
Kostner is over-rated. Kaetlyn for gold indeed.
This dude can’t even pronounce their names