Creativity Insights Artists can Pull from Writers - Draftsmen S3E16
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- Опубликовано: 2 авг 2021
- Marshall talks with Stan about Gabriele Rico’s book “Writing the Natural Way”. The two look at how artists can borrow from a writer’s toolbox of exercises and thought processes to improve creativity. You’ll hear how these techniques can help you brainstorm more effectively, leverage creative tension, properly revise your work, and ultimately get more in touch with the creative process.
Timecodes:
1:03 Intro
3:44 “Writing the Natural Way”
11:23 Clustering
20:25 Clustering and Composition
23:26 Creative Tension
29:08 Marshall’s Inspiration
33:54 Identifying Your Problem
41:58 Celebrating the “Aha Moment”
45:42 Sign Mind versus Design Mind
47:56 Revision
50:50 Principles
55:29 Coming Full Circle
1:00:00 Recreating and Nuance
1:02:53 Combinatory Play
1:12:36 What’s your thang?
Show Links (some contain affiliate links):
Writing the Natural Way by Gabriele Rico - amzn.to/2Vh78yH
The Natural Way to Draw by Kimon Nicolaïdes - amzn.to/3A55iQk
Clustering examples - static.proko.com/media/images...
Story by Robert McKee - amzn.to/3loG9fh
Cast Away - amzn.to/3jiPYsj
Bob and Wanda Duncan - www.oklahoman.com/article/210...
Zen in the Art of Writing by Ray Bradbury - amzn.to/3jf2Lw6
Marshall’s book reviews - www.marshallart.com/HOME/revi...
On Writing by Stephen King - amzn.to/3ymTdoX
Psycho-Cybernetics by Maxwell Maltz - amzn.to/3ynU9JP
Developing an Illustration - proko.com/500
Analyze This - amzn.to/3rOMMbS
The Tell-Tale Head (Simpsons Episode) - www.imdb.com/title/tt0756398/
James Gurney heatmap - static.proko.com/media/images...
Chernobyl (HBO show) - amzn.to/3A2myFJ
The Mindscape of Alan Moore - amzn.to/3xlX8RR
Hit Makers - proko.com/494
Rick Griffin - www.rickgriffindesigns.com/
Tree Thumbnail Clusters - static.proko.com/media/images...
Fractals - Hunting the Hidden Dimension - NOVA documentary - amzn.to/3fl97IX
The Book of Trees by Manuel Lima - amzn.to/3ylBvSZ
The Isley Brothers - It’s Our Thing amzn.to/3rQofDj
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#arttips #creativeprocess #bookreport
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ABOUT DRAFTSMEN:
Stan Prokopenko and Marshall Vandruff are art instructors. If you love the arts, particularly the craft of drawing and painting and image-making… and you want to level up your skills or even make a living with your skills, we are here to answer your questions. We’re here to offer you advice, refer you to our resources, share your love of the craft and maybe inspire you! Learn to Draw - www.proko.com Marshall Vandruff - www.marshallart.com. Subscribe to the podcast at bit.ly/DraftsmenPod
CREDITS:
Hosts - Stan Prokopenko (www.stanprokopenko.com), Marshall Vandruff (www.marshallart.com/)
Production Assistance - Alex Otis ( / alexotisillustration , Charlie Nicholson ( / shloogorgh )
Editing - Sierra Tillman ( / blu_perceptions , Charlie Nicholson
Intro Animation - Cody Shank (codyshank.com/)
Intro Jingle - Tommy Rush ( / tommyrush )
Music Used with Permission Intro - The Freak Fandango Orchestra
What’s your thang? What’s inspiring you this week?
Love !!
This week wasn't that motivating. My family told me that I shouldn't pursue animation, that I should go to college for an academic degree instead. It's sad (Cried for the whole day xd) but it's not that big of a deal since I'm not gonna listen to them anyway. It definitely affect my motivation. They're supposed to be the people encouraging me and helping me to do this, but instead they are dragging me down.
I took a break for two days then I started drawing again but it's different. Today I got recommended a video here on youtube about Heinrich Kley from proko and a video about a ghibli film. My motivation to draw came back and my drawing is so different compared to the drawing that I just did yesterday. It's like I have a fresh mind and a fresh hand. I feel like a kid.
a youtube channel named pete beard , he features lots of unpopular artists of the past , gold mine for artists who love oldschool stuffs
Language instinct by Steven pinker
Otis Redding and the August Proko Challenge! - are inspiring me. Also Marshall, please note it is chemically possible to 'transmute' lead into gold, however it takes extremely high energy levels (i.e. radiation exposure).
Fantastic episode. Marshall's passion is contagious.
I love the fact that despite all his knowledge marshall still gets so excited about the stuff he finds.
yeah like the apple on the desk :)))
Finding Nemo.
14:40
"At least you know what a uvula is."
"Hey! I teach anatomy!"
This had me laughing out loud.
I could listen to Marshall talk for hours, so I disagree with the comment that he’s too verbose :) Love this book, and after listening to this episode, I want to reread and actually do the exercises!
I have really been stuck on thinking how much Stan's skeptical nature gets in the way of the topic, always undercutting arguments and thoroughly questioning every point.
But come to think of it, I suppose the episode only gains from it, seeing that his questioning always puts Marshall on the spot, showing his explaining techniques and how much of an amazing knowledge conveyor he is.
And this really also makes apparent how much of an excellent student and "scientist", so to speak, Stan really is.
I could not have been more wrong in my initial pet peeve with Stan's questioning. It only shows how much this pair is a fantastic match for discussing anything.
I would listen to them go on about anything, and doubt I could find a more entertaining duo of hosts.
Thank you Stan and Marshall for the gold mine that your minds are.
Come to think of it, I was the same way ever since S1, but somewhere along the way I've realised that Stan's contrasting nature only helps keep the conversation grounded.
@@BigDomski right? That's the same conclusion I came to. His inquisitive nature only makes Marshall's explanations clearer and more objective.
Stan cuts the B.S.
These podcasts feed my Brain with such energy and enthusiasm it's exquisite!
I knew Proko and his courses for several years now and I have just discovered now that they are doing these podcasts with Marshall. I don't know why but it just genuinely makes me so happy that they seem to be really good friends. I always enjoyed Marshall's cheerful and light-hearted attitude when I discovered him around a decade ago, so they just seem to be such a perfect match both in their craftsmanship and character.
What a gift it must be to have Marshall as a mentor, teacher and friend
Marshall's verbosity is the exact reason im here!!!
Yup
OMG I'm crying I'm laughin so hard at that thumbnail!! PURE GENIUS!!!
I have just wanted to comment the same thing... can't stop trying to stop myself from laughing :D
man, i could listen to marshall talk all day
marshall is such a joy to listen to
you have no idea how much this podcast has helped me with my creative journey thank you from the bottom of my heart i wish i had art teachers like you
came here for creativity and left with a life lesson. thank you Draftsmen.
Its like Marshall knows Im trying to write a manga lol every episode I feel motivated af
weird flex but ok
A manga is japanese, so unless it is in japanese you are writing a comic book
Ooh! This could be interesting.
Writing prompts, such as words or short descriptions, translated to pictures or images could be very beneficial to one's overall skills as an artist. Think about it. You're translating from one medium to the next, through a direct link from text to imagination and finally to paper.
I actually read, study, and practice interesting writing exercises to help with the story I'm writing. Also...I don't want to have to hire an editor to critique and fix my errors because it's very costly. Anyway...
Graphic novels by yourself are a lot of work! I derailed a bit here, but still. Connecting these mediums is a "must do" as a creative!
Oh my! I haven't thought of making such fun excercises! Writing a small prompt and creating a few small pictures out of it. Thank you! 😳✨
Finally a way to make the excercises fun and personal.
Forgot the name of the game/contest, think it was Art War or something.
In this game, a writer would write a sentence, then an artist had to draw an image based on the sentence. Then the drawing will be passed on the next writer, and they had to write something based on the image and so on.
I think the winning team, would be the ones that got enough points, by being as close to the idea that the original artist had.
Hope it makes sense.
It's a great way to practice creativity and imagination and have fun with other artists.
I was intrigued to hear that Marshall had read several (numerous?) books “on writing”, as I’d done that, and enjoyed it immensely. Just ordered Rico’s earlier edition, used. I’ll probably get the newer one as well, or borrow an ebook from the library. Thanks for always giving me food for thought. I listen while I’m working on art. Similar to a good book, I feel that re-listening to your talks will be more layers of comprehension.
While I haven’t (to my knowledge) applied the “on writing “ books’ to planned, targeted writing of my own, I have felt a kinship somehow with the authors, and having done essays and journals for decades, consider myself not only a painter, but also an author, however modest in output.🎨❤️
I'm working that right hand everyday.
THE HIDDEN LIFE OF TREES - an amazing book, quick read and so inspiring and mind opening. it has been a huge influence in how I see the world and in my creativity. Pleas Marshal, get it.
Gosh, I love listening to u two!
:the reaction marhall makes when stan said he doesnt have to read it :))))
This is awesome! Loved it...Thank you so much!
That was very helpful. I think I will be using some of these techniques when I'm doing my concept art thumbnail sketches.
this podcast needs to blow up i love it sm
I love this podcast so so much ❤💜
Love marshall's book club!! Cant wait to see what book they talk about next
And again a great show and I'm buying yet another book... Amusing seeing as I'm listening to this post 1-mile swim. I didn't know you were into that? Swimming is the best meditiation there is. I tried those bone-conducting speakers that go on your goggles and found I liked the sound of my own mind and thoughts better. BUT... Different strokes for different folks and they actually were just fine to listen too. Cheers and thanks!
Very expansive, inspirational....
That video thumbnail!!! 😆 Every time I see it I can’t seem to help but lose it! HILARIOUS stuff gentlemen. Another great video btw!
Stan imitating Marshall at 1:06:40 is so funny XD
Please do one that focuses on pulling creativity from songs!
The use of two opposites in one circle would relate to the green underpainting of rosy skin tones. There are vibrations of complementary colors that artists use for landscapes by using ochre- orange tones and painting the greens and blues on top of it. This stimulates the brain. Chopin adds a tiny sour note in a certain sonata that is too insignificant to be a cacophony but makes the proceeding notes sound so beautiful, so bear that in mind so that you don't take the opposites too far.
Alike marshalls reading habits i have listened to this episode about 3 times, this third time im coming to the conclusion i need to do the exercises and take notes finally. Every lesson here is far too valuable to not.
Good information and thoughts to ponder.
Thank you!
I just ordered Writing the Natural Way. I have to read it!
I actually use this a lot in my teaching. Brain storming with my class to break down ideas or develop them. Especially with creative concepts. Anyway- Bloody interesting episode. I'll have to find the original version of the book to give it a proper look through.
You may have already located them, but FYI, Amazon has both the 1983(?) and the later one.
Interesting, this cluster method sounds like what we were taught at school, a mind map, I always found them helpful (maybe the mind map is uk specific?) I love listening to them talk about pretty much anything, I learn so much and feel uplifted afterwards :)
I think you're talking about the focused and the diffused mode of thinking (example Thomas Edison).
Diffuse thinking happens when you let your mind wander freely, making connections at random. ... With focused thinking, your brain processes very specific information deeply; with diffuse thinking, the brain analyzes much more information at once but in less depth.
(The book 'a mind for numbers' explains how this type of thinking can be used for learning and problem solving, very interesting)
I like Marshall, he's Gandalf of the art community )
59:15 it's chiastic structure, and it's ooooold. Like this: A B C C' B' A'. Genesis is chiastically structured.
Thumbnail is once again a masterpiece hahaha
Interesting bit about Edison waking himself up. I found that in the few minutes right after I wake up from a nap, my brain enters this state where it comes up with weird thoughts I've never had before, sometimes clever insights, but I never thought about using this to solve problems
Look into lucid dreaming. Waking yourself up is a way to reactivate your brain just enough to be more aware you are dreaming. This awareness coupled with a prompt (like a question you have or a mantra etc) can yield amazing things while you dream.
Great episode! Could yall also make something on art marketing and how to sell paintings ?
I just received that book a couple weeks ago. Guess I'm watching a review of the book I'm currently reading (and doing the exercises)
It is very funny that I already do this and actually I was doing clustering with a project I'm working on!!! Gotta get this book, definitely!
By the way, I'd love have Marshall as my granpa and listen to him talking about stuff he'd learned all day long.
marshalls intro was very funny haha
I recently bought The Book of Trees, and I'm sitting here wondering how I can send Marshall a copy of it as he's talking about using trees metaphorically as systems of knowledge, and then he pulls the thing right off his shelf!! And I can see it's sitting on top of The Book of Circles which Amazon is still suggesting I'd like - I haven't dropped the hammer on that one yet, but I'm a sucker for collections like that so I'm sure it's only a matter of time.
Marshall,
Wouldn't it been nicer/easier to make 8.5" x 11" copies of the two books pages, then 3-hole punch the copied pages?
Is the clustering technique the same as mind mapping?
Why is the right / left side brain discussion such a hot button issue? Can someone explain.
i would love to see an episode about art philosophy
Is that “encyclopedia of new Yorker cartoons” in your library marshal?
yeah whats your things was back this episode!
thats good one...
Marshall's brilliant optimism and the cynical Stan really do make for a great contrast
Coll Stan, I swim regularly also. know what you mean by thoughts racing, I am a combination of counting the laps/distance and trying to push myself, and then thinking about what I plan to work on for my current painting I have in progress. and other random stuff. Nice when I am thinking about the painting and focus on that or something else good, makes the time and distance fly by much better when not obsessing on it.
Stan, Marschall is the human version of a zettelkasten system!
Oh, and ; ‘Brother strut’ has a great version of It’s your thing! Check out their ‘attic sessions’ video here on YT, where they do a cover of that song 🎶 🤓👍🏼
Concerning Robert McKee ... why should I take advice on how to successfully write screenplays from someone who has never written a single screenplay that made it to the screen?
Because a lot of other people who took his advice wrote screensplays that made it to the screen.
He got stuff optioned, so he did at least sell the option to make them. But then again, I also heard he was a total a-hole at his seminars. Like just berating people who questioned his stupid diagrams and stuff, lol. He berated someone so bad that during the lunchbreak someone wrote an anonymous note to him chiding him for his loutish behavior and suggesting he apologize. It all sounded very hilarious, what a clown. I didn't hear this story from some nobody either, it was from Chuck Dixon, who I believe is the world's most prolific comic book writer. He used to write Batman for DC and the editors sent him on the McKee course because there was so much hype around it/him.
Hello sending my support from suzzette
We've got a new tongue twister on our hands. 1:04:06
...that line trying to kind of salvage the work of alchemists was quite funny. I don't think it was the intent, but it ended up sounding like, "those people, they were wrong about their main idea, but they were right in things that they didn't come up with, that everyone else knew about." At least AFAIK. Maybe a better alternative to "defend" early/original alchemists is how part of it sort of split into chemistry. But to defend those who remained alchemists is more difficult. Maybe they have an admirable persistence, even though ultimately it's more of an example of how persistence to a dead end doesn't do any good.
Man, that "seashell" tongue-twister from Vandruff is something I don't even have any hope of ever getting even to the half of it. But "show her your uvula" isn't really anything, it really sounds more like it's kind of just setting the stage for the other person to say, "to show someone's one's uvula is more of a tongue-stretch than a tongue-twist."
You guys have been discussing art in western tradition we need the opposite side which is eastern tradition including animeee yeaaaaaaahhh,
mm but i don't know how useful that would be considering they don't seem to know a lot about anime
Betty bought a bit of butter, but said she, this butter's bitter. If I put it in my batter it will make my batter bitter. So t'was better Betty bought a bit of better butter to make her bitter batter better.
Everyone in the romantic period would absolutely hate Stan and his outlook lmao
Who/what is Nickladies?
google Kimon Nicolaïdes
Garbage Truck Day!!!!
How on earth do you read two copies of the same book? That sounds like a feat of Herculean proportions.
That thumbnail.
Ahaha Proko you don't even know Mandelbrot!? Ha! You are so prosaic Proko, so quotidian. You're humdrum!
Marshall's Finding Nemo in out of print books since 1990s... come on.
I feel like all marshall does during his freetime is read. Which isnt a bad thing but i dont see how else he is able to read so many books.
All of those books are pretty short. I've also read most of the books he mentioned: Stephen King's book, Ray Bradbury's book, Robert Mckee's book etc etc in a weekend. Also if you don't have time you can just listen to them on audible. I did that with War of Art and Art and Fear books.
Anyway, all the books Marshall talks about are great and worth reading. (I didn't really like War of Art, Robert Mckee's book, or Stephen King's book, but all of them gave me a better idea of where I wanted to go)
@@karakurie I listened to war on art for free on youtube. I dont rly have the money to buy the books either so if i ever happen find another book he reccomends online for free (that doesn't sound too robotic) then ill try to listen to it sometime.
Will you ever interview loish?
no. lol jk jk it'd be cool to hear the social media insights, always a fascinating topic, id like to hear what Marshall has to say on it, but there has already been an excellent bobby chiu interview im sure you've seen. I think it'd be awesome if they got some of the other popular RUclips artists on here, or even better more masters like James Gurney, i.e Iain McCaig!
@@TaterProduction They've already made a vid with james. Yeah I've seen the bobby chiu, it's good but it's more of a life style. In draftsmen there's usually a topic and a lesson (Not saying the Bobby Chiu doesn't have one) so it will be cool if they get Loish. Not just because Loish is very popular but because Loish is definitely one of the best illustrators today imo.
@@orpheus6398 they said "masters like james gurney ie iain mccaig", so he means people that are on his level (not that loish is bad ofc, i love her art
@@alfiemarshall9224 oof haha
Clustering method sounds a lot like lateral thinking
Haven’t watched this yet, but I got the most invaluable inspiration from Stephen king. Well, technically the inspiration is cocaine, but Stephen king gave me the idea.
"I'll just put Marshall instead of "show her your Uvula" 😂
Maybe Marshall should do his book reviews by himself... It's tough when Stan interrupts sooooooo much
i like them better together they are a great team
Okay, uvula...
i like how marshall pronounces gabriele lmao
He'd chuck as much wood as a woodchuck would chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood
I bet that if you ask Marshall what brand of toilet paper he uses he will reach for a book, talk about it excitedly for 45 minutes, recommend a great courses plus course and then say he talks about toilet paper in his composition course.
these thumbnails man 💀💀💀💀
These thumbnails are getting increasingly disturbing
you guys need to research better help a little better
Marshall needs some self-awareness about his limited "wisdom"... and comprehension (reasoning). Regurgitation of random quotes is just being opinionated.
he probably doesn't have any formal education in logic. denying the law of non-contradiction is obviously bs, but I think it has some place in this discussion about creative thinking as it is often useful too steer away from evaluating propositions and instead freely exploring associations and being playful about it.