Even with Azamina, the White Forest gameplay still isn’t centered around OTK-ing, so I opt to main one of the monster traps and Rabbit simply because it genuinely does build pressure in the grind game, especially so if you have an established field. Granted I run the more “pure build” and not Fiendsmith, but if worse comes to worse, just discard the trap for cost if it is a dead card.
Was thinking about this. If you tech in the true sun god spell and guardian slime, you can search sphere mode. Slime triggers in gy, which you can do with witch and decpetion easily
i started playing true sun god after i made the video, but i would not play slime. in terms of ratios you could either max out on sphere/sungod or mix in lava golem depending on your expected matchups. sun god is the best draw possible in a wf version unless you get drolled
I dislike this idea. Your biggest problem here is that you become way more vulnerable to interruption on your engine. Also another massive issue is Tenpai, specifically when it shifters you. To solve this, I would personally go for the quickplay spell approach, and try to win the chainlink by stacking book of eclipse, droplets and imperms to eachother and your engine. Also I am currently testing albion + muddy mudragon to access the azamina engine when you manage to make sillouhatte + muddy. If you do not manage sillouhatte, you can just make dragoon/mechaba/millenium-eyes instead
"way more vulnerable to interruption on your engine" compared to what? playing more hand traps (less engine overall) is even worse for your engine. one of the main advantages of breakers is less non engine space required playing multiple engines that can work on their own or in combination is the opposite of vulnerability on engine, and its substantially easier to make a board than if you were on pure WF, for example regarding shifter, i think that unfortunately you have to accept that the deck doesnt have good plays around it. you mention droplet, but you cannot droplet under shifter. in my powerspell build, which ive covered before, the response to shifter is thrusting for d barrier post side. thrusting for woes after shifter wont save you
that will almost always be what tank is used for when you draw box. but since you have 3 engines in this version, it is not so important to ladder into diabell on your own turn - you can for example leave rciela on field and woes for another elzette to diabell on their turn, or you can diabell with solder/tank and silvy/rucia and not get the add back. the add back is less important in the azamina cycle once youve gotten deception to reset itself and preferably searched a debtors for a sol on their turn however, you can experiment with 1 astellar since you can search it. i find that silvy is enough in my testing, but really this build assumes you need ra/golem to break boards so you just cant afford tons of normals
Is it possible to make a build with only the Azamina cards , like WF Azamina + Toys or Millenium, or its only worth it to play Azaminas with Fiendsmith cards ? I know the Azamina cards are going to be expensive as shit , and I only have budget for either FS or Azamina, and like Azamina cards way more (for non gameplay reasons tho)
you definitely can - i might do a video going over variants and the deck theory behind it. the main benefit to playing both is that azamina combos by itself goes into closed heaven/necroquip lines to make wave high king so fyi if you only have budget for one id highly recommend azamina instead cuz itll last longer since itll be newer (ban list not likely to hit it soon) OR buy just a single FS engraver for the main deck so you can do the closed heaven line with azamina combo (ED cards are all cheap i think: requiem, closed heaven, necroquip princess, w. high king caesar)
@@BimYGO got it, so the ratios would be 3 diabellstar, 3 wanted , 3 deception , 3 tales ? And about Toy cards ? 3 box and 1 soldier and 1 tank would be good or we cut them off ?
@@H4kum3n_unlimeted if you are not playing any fiendsmith cards you may have space for a larger WF engine, in which case you could go 3 box 3 soldier 1 tank. if you are not on a large wf engine, then should be 3 box 1 soldier 1 tank because the wanted engine only bridges into wf if you draw box, not if you draw soldier the ratio of tales is basically dependent on how much space you have. if youre on hand traps you should be on 15, you should not cut hand trap space for more tales. if youre on breakers you should be on 10-12
with 3 different engines already our ED is extremely tight and we are missing stuff we normally would like as flex, like vorpgate/packbit or zapper shrimp. the branded ED commitment is too much on top of this. i think the branded versions are usually better if its very heavy on branded just splashing wf
thanks for the support fam im currently pausing coaching, but will resume in the future. ill announce when im resuming coaching in a video, but the easiest way to check in the future is @ing me on the discord. maybe from next month
I would swap the one Nib over Imperm since it works fine with Golem/Sphere and is a S/T. Subversion is great, especially in the side with Silvera trap helping you play under Fuwalos setting up both and omni as well as followup by triggering Diabel on their turn. I've stopped playing Tales and bumped Woes to 2 since it can give me engine and a quick synchro unlike Tales that most of the time was dead. Im a fan of a bigger Azamina package as well, but not Fiendsmiths here. Now with the Centurion Synchro I'll return to that build, it gets a lot of offensive power and becomes more flexible. In that build Rabbit will go for Apophis instead.
If you are playing FS, I suggest you have searchable removal on demand since you play the 2nd Tract by running at least 1 Santa Claws and Archfiend Eccentric. It works really well in the side.
@@babrad i have been testing the archfiend and the santa claws and found it to be okay, but only really as the first play of the turn the biggest benefit of the fs stuff in az imo is just that murcielago+witch can make closed heaven - i havent found any other link 2 thats remotely close to as good. rabbit is probably the next best but only when going first and its substantially worse than the closed heaven play. going 2nd ive found knightmare phoenix to be an okay placeholder link 2, possibly cerberus as well - though sp is more generic than both and gets the trigger cuz of the mats. i heavily dislike maining rabbit targets because of the dice roll, but i think its a big enough improvement from immediately going sp to where you probably have to. re the ra/golem strat, someone in disc pointed out that 'the true sun god' searches ra and then remains on field after so its both a wf send as well as more copies of ra, which is substantially better than golem vs the best decks. that said, ra is sometimes not live against lower tier decks and that is worrisome in a more diverse locals environment etc lastly, ive noticed that ra/golem sometimes forces floats or other triggers, so thrust/talents might not be bad to pair
@@BimYGO if you up Tract to 3 they are even more reliable but it depends on the deck (I play triple in Fiend piles). For FS in WF can you limit the engine to a single Engraver then? You almost always want to access it via Moon for the additional name anyway and the fiendsmith combo itself doesn't lead to neither Azamina nor WF anyway. My experience with the deck is sadly casual playtesting and not as competitive as I could go, because I'm already going with 2 different Yubel variants + Snakeless Fire Kings + Centurion I also dislike rabbit targets going second and in the above decks I don't play rabbit when most lists do. Here the only excuse I can give is having the trap as WF fodder. Very interesting, I like the "True Sun God" tech in concept. With lower tier decks there shouldn't be a problem anyway, only Memento is secretly OP. I've dropped to 1 TTT each and even with more Thrust I didn't like Tales in the end finally cutting it. And I haven't missed it. This is especially true in the Centurion build where I love the combination of Regained + Attri giving me draws similarly to a Fountain every turn. There I use 2 Lub + 1 Mag/Druis/Bald/Saro with both Regained (initially 2 then 1) and Beast. The centurion package was the typical 3 Standup + 3 Oath with 2 Primera + 1 Trudea, then 1 each the other names except Emeth although Cimelia is a bit wonky. For WF, I play 1 Astellar as the 3rd Primera, 3 Elzette, 1 each of the lvl4s and 2 Woes
perhaps you could take out sol and replace it with shrimp, and the take out debtors from hte main. but then there is no room for satellite, so i think youd use shrimp for chaos angel.
@@BimYGO is there a way to send you a list and do a discussion or save it for a deck doctor session? I play a SuperHeavy samurai version of white forest
@@JavierHernandez-vi9nc i was actually about to announce this for my next video - ill make a channel in my discord for the decklist submissions so if youre in the discord youll see it shortly
what scenarios specifically are you winning off bagooska? the typical scenario in my experience is getting shiftered, though you cannot guarantee it is possible to make bagooska based on your hand. against most decks that use shifter (like tenpai), half their deck is just outs to bagooska and you lose anyhow. if youre winning games off bagooska im curious what exactly your opponent is doing? re granite - ive explained this in previous videos so i dont want to type it all out now but wf plays under its own nib phenomenally well because of how the tuners recycle the synchros from grave. more importantly, good decks never have all their interactions in one place: searching nib+veiler in a reliable combo is an incredibly powerful two card interaction that most decks will lose to outright; if you have searched them on top of establishing your own field, your opponent has no silver bullets anymore (drnm, evenly, droplet, LS, etc dont protect them)
deck has suddenly became a 500-600$ deck that isn't even one of the best 2-3 decks.. and that's not even counting fuwalos in it... more than ever any budget attempt in yu-gi-oh is gone it seems..
best to play tenpai in terms of meta relevance on a budget. that said, the runick white forest deck is one of the cheaper meta decks because the runicks have all been reprinted, so the only semi expensive card is elzette. you do not need astellar for the runick version.
Even with Azamina, the White Forest gameplay still isn’t centered around OTK-ing, so I opt to main one of the monster traps and Rabbit simply because it genuinely does build pressure in the grind game, especially so if you have an established field.
Granted I run the more “pure build” and not Fiendsmith, but if worse comes to worse, just discard the trap for cost if it is a dead card.
Oh, this man cooking.
Was thinking about this. If you tech in the true sun god spell and guardian slime, you can search sphere mode. Slime triggers in gy, which you can do with witch and decpetion easily
i started playing true sun god after i made the video, but i would not play slime. in terms of ratios you could either max out on sphere/sungod or mix in lava golem depending on your expected matchups. sun god is the best draw possible in a wf version unless you get drolled
I dislike this idea. Your biggest problem here is that you become way more vulnerable to interruption on your engine.
Also another massive issue is Tenpai, specifically when it shifters you.
To solve this, I would personally go for the quickplay spell approach, and try to win the chainlink by stacking book of eclipse, droplets and imperms to eachother and your engine.
Also I am currently testing albion + muddy mudragon to access the azamina engine when you manage to make sillouhatte + muddy. If you do not manage sillouhatte, you can just make dragoon/mechaba/millenium-eyes instead
"way more vulnerable to interruption on your engine" compared to what? playing more hand traps (less engine overall) is even worse for your engine. one of the main advantages of breakers is less non engine space required
playing multiple engines that can work on their own or in combination is the opposite of vulnerability on engine, and its substantially easier to make a board than if you were on pure WF, for example
regarding shifter, i think that unfortunately you have to accept that the deck doesnt have good plays around it. you mention droplet, but you cannot droplet under shifter. in my powerspell build, which ive covered before, the response to shifter is thrusting for d barrier post side. thrusting for woes after shifter wont save you
So... How do you get the second level 2 to make diabell? Tank?
that will almost always be what tank is used for when you draw box. but since you have 3 engines in this version, it is not so important to ladder into diabell on your own turn - you can for example leave rciela on field and woes for another elzette to diabell on their turn, or you can diabell with solder/tank and silvy/rucia and not get the add back. the add back is less important in the azamina cycle once youve gotten deception to reset itself and preferably searched a debtors for a sol on their turn
however, you can experiment with 1 astellar since you can search it. i find that silvy is enough in my testing, but really this build assumes you need ra/golem to break boards so you just cant afford tons of normals
🎉🎉🎉
Is it possible to make a build with only the Azamina cards , like WF Azamina + Toys or Millenium, or its only worth it to play Azaminas with Fiendsmith cards ? I know the Azamina cards are going to be expensive as shit , and I only have budget for either FS or Azamina, and like Azamina cards way more (for non gameplay reasons tho)
you definitely can - i might do a video going over variants and the deck theory behind it. the main benefit to playing both is that azamina combos by itself goes into closed heaven/necroquip lines to make wave high king
so fyi if you only have budget for one id highly recommend azamina instead cuz itll last longer since itll be newer (ban list not likely to hit it soon)
OR buy just a single FS engraver for the main deck so you can do the closed heaven line with azamina combo (ED cards are all cheap i think: requiem, closed heaven, necroquip princess, w. high king caesar)
@@BimYGO thnks for the answer, and on the note regarding Azamina and such , Diabellstarr is better 1 or 3 copies ?
@@H4kum3n_unlimeted 3 because azamina is broken, so more starters is always better unless youre pressed for space. also it turns on tales
@@BimYGO got it, so the ratios would be 3 diabellstar, 3 wanted , 3 deception , 3 tales ? And about Toy cards ? 3 box and 1 soldier and 1 tank would be good or we cut them off ?
@@H4kum3n_unlimeted if you are not playing any fiendsmith cards you may have space for a larger WF engine, in which case you could go 3 box 3 soldier 1 tank. if you are not on a large wf engine, then should be 3 box 1 soldier 1 tank because the wanted engine only bridges into wf if you draw box, not if you draw soldier
the ratio of tales is basically dependent on how much space you have. if youre on hand traps you should be on 15, you should not cut hand trap space for more tales. if youre on breakers you should be on 10-12
What do you think about a little Branded Splash for azamina splash?
Also cutting Astellar is interesting
with 3 different engines already our ED is extremely tight and we are missing stuff we normally would like as flex, like vorpgate/packbit or zapper shrimp. the branded ED commitment is too much on top of this. i think the branded versions are usually better if its very heavy on branded just splashing wf
Can you make a azamina WF without fs?
you can but it wont be budget cuz deception is secret. i might make a video on variants of the deck without some engines
@@BimYGO i dont mind already bought the core but i cant find a good balance WF Azamina deck
And i love your vids with all the explanation
Subversion is so slept on
I’ve left comments on all of your videos. I’ve been watching your videos since you started RUclips and I wanna get coaching from you.
thanks for the support fam
im currently pausing coaching, but will resume in the future. ill announce when im resuming coaching in a video, but the easiest way to check in the future is @ing me on the discord. maybe from next month
I would swap the one Nib over Imperm since it works fine with Golem/Sphere and is a S/T. Subversion is great, especially in the side with Silvera trap helping you play under Fuwalos setting up both and omni as well as followup by triggering Diabel on their turn. I've stopped playing Tales and bumped Woes to 2 since it can give me engine and a quick synchro unlike Tales that most of the time was dead.
Im a fan of a bigger Azamina package as well, but not Fiendsmiths here. Now with the Centurion Synchro I'll return to that build, it gets a lot of offensive power and becomes more flexible. In that build Rabbit will go for Apophis instead.
If you are playing FS, I suggest you have searchable removal on demand since you play the 2nd Tract by running at least 1 Santa Claws and Archfiend Eccentric. It works really well in the side.
@@babrad i have been testing the archfiend and the santa claws and found it to be okay, but only really as the first play of the turn
the biggest benefit of the fs stuff in az imo is just that murcielago+witch can make closed heaven - i havent found any other link 2 thats remotely close to as good. rabbit is probably the next best but only when going first and its substantially worse than the closed heaven play.
going 2nd ive found knightmare phoenix to be an okay placeholder link 2, possibly cerberus as well - though sp is more generic than both and gets the trigger cuz of the mats.
i heavily dislike maining rabbit targets because of the dice roll, but i think its a big enough improvement from immediately going sp to where you probably have to.
re the ra/golem strat, someone in disc pointed out that 'the true sun god' searches ra and then remains on field after so its both a wf send as well as more copies of ra, which is substantially better than golem vs the best decks. that said, ra is sometimes not live against lower tier decks and that is worrisome in a more diverse locals environment etc
lastly, ive noticed that ra/golem sometimes forces floats or other triggers, so thrust/talents might not be bad to pair
@@babrad i will test cent stuff next. anything in particular you liked about it or ratios you have opinions on?
@@BimYGO if you up Tract to 3 they are even more reliable but it depends on the deck (I play triple in Fiend piles).
For FS in WF can you limit the engine to a single Engraver then? You almost always want to access it via Moon for the additional name anyway and the fiendsmith combo itself doesn't lead to neither Azamina nor WF anyway. My experience with the deck is sadly casual playtesting and not as competitive as I could go, because I'm already going with 2 different Yubel variants + Snakeless Fire Kings + Centurion
I also dislike rabbit targets going second and in the above decks I don't play rabbit when most lists do. Here the only excuse I can give is having the trap as WF fodder.
Very interesting, I like the "True Sun God" tech in concept. With lower tier decks there shouldn't be a problem anyway, only Memento is secretly OP.
I've dropped to 1 TTT each and even with more Thrust I didn't like Tales in the end finally cutting it. And I haven't missed it. This is especially true in the Centurion build where I love the combination of Regained + Attri giving me draws similarly to a Fountain every turn. There I use 2 Lub + 1 Mag/Druis/Bald/Saro with both Regained (initially 2 then 1) and Beast. The centurion package was the typical 3 Standup + 3 Oath with 2 Primera + 1 Trudea, then 1 each the other names except Emeth although Cimelia is a bit wonky. For WF, I play 1 Astellar as the 3rd Primera, 3 Elzette, 1 each of the lvl4s and 2 Woes
Would you consider playing zapper shrimp and satellite warrior for a pop 3 on the opponent’s turn
perhaps you could take out sol and replace it with shrimp, and the take out debtors from hte main. but then there is no room for satellite, so i think youd use shrimp for chaos angel.
@@BimYGO is there a way to send you a list and do a discussion or save it for a deck doctor session? I play a SuperHeavy samurai version of white forest
@@JavierHernandez-vi9nc i was actually about to announce this for my next video - ill make a channel in my discord for the decklist submissions so if youre in the discord youll see it shortly
@@BimYGO Im not may I get the link or name for an invite to join?
@@JavierHernandez-vi9nc is the link in the description not working?
Still waiting for white forest azamina without the fiendsmith package
Oh damn the deck looks too much expensive...
But Inunderstand the idea but I will not going that way
Id play Bagooska over Granite. Gooska wins games. Granite searches a nib. Id rather have a gooska lol
what scenarios specifically are you winning off bagooska? the typical scenario in my experience is getting shiftered, though you cannot guarantee it is possible to make bagooska based on your hand. against most decks that use shifter (like tenpai), half their deck is just outs to bagooska and you lose anyhow. if youre winning games off bagooska im curious what exactly your opponent is doing?
re granite - ive explained this in previous videos so i dont want to type it all out now but wf plays under its own nib phenomenally well because of how the tuners recycle the synchros from grave. more importantly, good decks never have all their interactions in one place: searching nib+veiler in a reliable combo is an incredibly powerful two card interaction that most decks will lose to outright; if you have searched them on top of establishing your own field, your opponent has no silver bullets anymore (drnm, evenly, droplet, LS, etc dont protect them)
deck has suddenly became a 500-600$ deck that isn't even one of the best 2-3 decks.. and that's not even counting fuwalos in it... more than ever any budget attempt in yu-gi-oh is gone it seems..
best to play tenpai in terms of meta relevance on a budget. that said, the runick white forest deck is one of the cheaper meta decks because the runicks have all been reprinted, so the only semi expensive card is elzette. you do not need astellar for the runick version.
@@BimYGO I hate runick 😁 but it's in general the same problem, decks that are tier 2 even 3 nowdays cost over 200-300€ which is totally stupid