Im often commenting "negative" stuff on your vids but i want to say that i do really like your content and appreciate the WF content and discussion it generates
thoughs on playing a magician souls package in a pure variant, it's something that's been working great for me, helps proc the toy cards, gives an extra extender as a worse case scenario and helps bait handtraps
@@sbylol8366 i consider that strictly win more because it only works if you draw it in combination with toys, but almost every hand possible will include either wf engine or wanted engine, so you already have interactions If for some reason you weren’t on the wanted engine it might have more merit but I thought it was still win more even then
I'm catching up on the videos in reverse, so it might be a bit confusing. The Nib/Veiler combo is amazing but I personally consider it win-more. The reason is, it's a combo that will resolve when you aren't already Drolled or Shiftered. If you aren't, the endboard is already pretty solid, despite not being as "unbreakable" as something similar to Yubel. The quality of those cards and the ability of Rciela to get Veiler when you wouldn't have any other more useful target (for example a heavy engine hand) can potentially make up for it. But the sheer value they provide as handtraps is undermined by the use of powerspells, since it's very unlikely to draw them together and Nib truly shines as the best "2nd handtrap" It's noteworthy that both are almost useless against Tenpai, the match I would be the most scared to have my board broken through 1-2 powerspells. Meanwhile the other meta decks (Fire, Yubel, Centurion) can be checked even better via something such as Black Goat. So not only we get more efficient non-engine, we also get excellent S/T fodder for the WF plays, and that's also a reason I'm not running ROTA.
You mentioned Super Poly that i also do in the next video :) My use-case is typically I have to use Silvia's negate on my turn, so I leave it in the GY and use Scourge to revive it turn 1 where Bystials are a bit more unlikely. The reason is I also run Dragoon and don't want to give the opponent a free Dragostapelia that will negate Zapper. If I see the opponent isn't on Super Poly I can confidently end on both, then use Scourge as the anti-DRNM/Droplet safety net and typically Dragoon will win the game on its own. Sidenote, Sol came up as a Super poly target as well, taking away a Caesar + Rabbit in 1 game, then getting back the discarded Wanted during the Standby I used for said Super poly. It didn't happen again and I'm heavily contemplating or replacing her for the 2nd synchro 10 you mention (I'm just not sold on anything yet, since I see a pattern of requiring 2 slots, for example Immortal Dragon + Genex)
debating nib is often quite speculative imo because as much as it may be true that its suboptimal on its own (i.e. you hard draw it), people rarely play around cards they say no one should be playing - especially when it becomes obvious that they are playing against a powerspell deck. in principle i dont consider the combo win more because most matchups still get fine value out of drawing either, but i take your point in the case of tenpai i do think though that the nib/veiler is meta dependent, and i rarely ever face yubel or centurion myself so i dont often feel the downside of drawing nib/veiler in those scenarios when id much rather have an extra goat/breaker
@@BimYGO what can i say... it really depends on your local area. Here for example I haven't seen a list not running Droll at 3 in the main for the last 2 weeks attending 3 locals a week. Rescue has been on the rise, especially by the really good players (ycs topcut/champion level) practicing for Bologna (they all disliked how FK has the built in weakness of Island despite recognizing the higher ceiling/potential compared to other Fire decks). Yubel Fiendsmith opts to Droll themselves giving up to 3 draws to the opponent then creating the unbreakable board. Centurion was mega-hyped 3 weeks ago but it has been declining (I believe it reached its peak because people myself included hated losing to themselves bricking) IMO Nib is the best when everyone says it's bad, it's been a long time since I wasn't playing it in the main. I would rather side it out game 2 than miss it game 1. But that's player bias on my part. And the fact it's glued to my hand adds even more fuel to said bias. The reason I said it's "win more" isn't due to its performance, on the contrary it's the best possible endboard safely hidden in your hand. My problem is this alternative end board has the same requirements (not getting Drolled mainly) while it suffers the most against the deck it tries to counter, Tenpai. Personally when facing WF with Yubel/Centurion (or the opposite) neither my opponent nor me piloting the deck ever needed Nib/Veiler when we had the opportunity to do that combo. Zapper on its own is so damn good (annoying) to win those games on its own.
Is Mu Rcielago really necessary in the deck? Just asking because it’s never really come up when I tested it. What I’m saying is that it seems like more steps just to get your Omni negate out.
in the combo i show (time stamped) you can get an extra body and option for wanted draw - instead of just ilia silvia. it is not mandatory but it is strictly superior in terms of resource economy
Granite/Nibiru to me isn't something to play, same thing with that many Thrust Targets in the Side. I like playing a small Fiendsmith engine (Moon, Requiem, Desirae, Sequence, Lacrima Engraver) but i can understand that you don't really find it interesting to play It allows to do something with the bodies u have with Diabell and the Toys or even some of the WF when u face 2/3 Handtraps
you would never play multiple thrust targets in the side on the assumption that you can only access one of them - you would only side them if you were fine with drawing them or needed more matchup coverage. that said, its debatable what targets you should have. the fs stuff loses to shifter and fuwalos even harder, but does play around droll better. regarding nib/veiler combo; if nib and veiler had WF in the name everyone would go bananas over the combo, but if youre not convinced by the explanations then just play what you prefer
@@Nooblet92Ca doesn’t fit with power spell ratios That said, card is broken, play it if you have it, though not every deck can main it, some have to side it
EYO i had the same idea with D Barrier in the main since we do play thrust and TTT anyway. Nice to see that im not alone on that pick :D Its a bad take to play fiendsmith currently, they are just win more and useless if you are under fuwalos
yes - they have az elzette, which is a substantial difference and also searchable off deception. not sure if i want to cover that in ROTA format but definitely will make a video on SUDA format
Even tho DBarrier is broken in itself, I believe it's not worth maining in this meta since the 2 out of the 3 best decks atm don't care about it for the most part Still worth siding tho
@@TheMarloncandace you can replace it with ddg and then your matchup spread changes where you can lose to tenpai but turn skip SE The core idea is just to have a turn skip trap, but I’m not sure what the best one is since daruma might also not have wider coverage
i would suggest playing 3 Silver, 1 Rcia and 2 Elzette, maybe two Tales, since you have 7 options to get to a spellcaster / illuson monster so tales is live
tales is probably the least important part of the entire deck, aside from needed another search target name or specifically opening silvy and no other names. so i dont consider it important to have main deck options to make tales live when youre already playing the entire wanted package plus rabbit
@@BimYGO you got me wrong. My idea is - because you have acces to Witch with 6 cards tales will be live almost always. Since there is no bridge between both engines pre SUDA (except Witch send soldier with box live) i want to increase my chances to see a white forest monster e.g. Tales.
@@Athelyn why play a card to search a wf monster when you could just play a wf monster - the topping lists in tcg and ocg have consensus that multiple tales is not good. it being conditional on witch doesnt make it much better, and anyhow elzette is the best starter in the deck aside from astellar specifically sending soldier under box
![Was Odion About To Defeat Joey? [Awakening Of Evil]](/img/1.gif)
Im often commenting "negative" stuff on your vids but i want to say that i do really like your content and appreciate the WF content and discussion it generates
Content is so good
thoughs on playing a magician souls package in a pure variant, it's something that's been working great for me, helps proc the toy cards, gives an extra extender as a worse case scenario and helps bait handtraps
@@sbylol8366 i consider that strictly win more because it only works if you draw it in combination with toys, but almost every hand possible will include either wf engine or wanted engine, so you already have interactions
If for some reason you weren’t on the wanted engine it might have more merit but I thought it was still win more even then
Have you tried playing with mannadium + white forest + toy?
the builds i tested seems just worse than other variants so didnt pursue it further
I'm catching up on the videos in reverse, so it might be a bit confusing. The Nib/Veiler combo is amazing but I personally consider it win-more. The reason is, it's a combo that will resolve when you aren't already Drolled or Shiftered. If you aren't, the endboard is already pretty solid, despite not being as "unbreakable" as something similar to Yubel.
The quality of those cards and the ability of Rciela to get Veiler when you wouldn't have any other more useful target (for example a heavy engine hand) can potentially make up for it. But the sheer value they provide as handtraps is undermined by the use of powerspells, since it's very unlikely to draw them together and Nib truly shines as the best "2nd handtrap"
It's noteworthy that both are almost useless against Tenpai, the match I would be the most scared to have my board broken through 1-2 powerspells. Meanwhile the other meta decks (Fire, Yubel, Centurion) can be checked even better via something such as Black Goat. So not only we get more efficient non-engine, we also get excellent S/T fodder for the WF plays, and that's also a reason I'm not running ROTA.
You mentioned Super Poly that i also do in the next video :)
My use-case is typically I have to use Silvia's negate on my turn, so I leave it in the GY and use Scourge to revive it turn 1 where Bystials are a bit more unlikely. The reason is I also run Dragoon and don't want to give the opponent a free Dragostapelia that will negate Zapper. If I see the opponent isn't on Super Poly I can confidently end on both, then use Scourge as the anti-DRNM/Droplet safety net and typically Dragoon will win the game on its own.
Sidenote, Sol came up as a Super poly target as well, taking away a Caesar + Rabbit in 1 game, then getting back the discarded Wanted during the Standby I used for said Super poly. It didn't happen again and I'm heavily contemplating or replacing her for the 2nd synchro 10 you mention (I'm just not sold on anything yet, since I see a pattern of requiring 2 slots, for example Immortal Dragon + Genex)
debating nib is often quite speculative imo because as much as it may be true that its suboptimal on its own (i.e. you hard draw it), people rarely play around cards they say no one should be playing - especially when it becomes obvious that they are playing against a powerspell deck.
in principle i dont consider the combo win more because most matchups still get fine value out of drawing either, but i take your point in the case of tenpai
i do think though that the nib/veiler is meta dependent, and i rarely ever face yubel or centurion myself so i dont often feel the downside of drawing nib/veiler in those scenarios when id much rather have an extra goat/breaker
@@BimYGO what can i say... it really depends on your local area. Here for example I haven't seen a list not running Droll at 3 in the main for the last 2 weeks attending 3 locals a week. Rescue has been on the rise, especially by the really good players (ycs topcut/champion level) practicing for Bologna (they all disliked how FK has the built in weakness of Island despite recognizing the higher ceiling/potential compared to other Fire decks). Yubel Fiendsmith opts to Droll themselves giving up to 3 draws to the opponent then creating the unbreakable board. Centurion was mega-hyped 3 weeks ago but it has been declining (I believe it reached its peak because people myself included hated losing to themselves bricking)
IMO Nib is the best when everyone says it's bad, it's been a long time since I wasn't playing it in the main. I would rather side it out game 2 than miss it game 1. But that's player bias on my part. And the fact it's glued to my hand adds even more fuel to said bias.
The reason I said it's "win more" isn't due to its performance, on the contrary it's the best possible endboard safely hidden in your hand. My problem is this alternative end board has the same requirements (not getting Drolled mainly) while it suffers the most against the deck it tries to counter, Tenpai. Personally when facing WF with Yubel/Centurion (or the opposite) neither my opponent nor me piloting the deck ever needed Nib/Veiler when we had the opportunity to do that combo. Zapper on its own is so damn good (annoying) to win those games on its own.
Have you seen the Wf/Sky Striker variant floating around in your discord? Any thoughts?
ill have a look
Is Mu Rcielago really necessary in the deck? Just asking because it’s never really come up when I tested it. What I’m saying is that it seems like more steps just to get your Omni negate out.
It's not needed, but it's nice to be able to do a bit more with the monsters available to you than just making Ilia Silvia.
in the combo i show (time stamped) you can get an extra body and option for wanted draw - instead of just ilia silvia. it is not mandatory but it is strictly superior in terms of resource economy
@@BimYGO yeah as I watched along I could see the benefits for sure
Granite/Nibiru to me isn't something to play, same thing with that many Thrust Targets in the Side.
I like playing a small Fiendsmith engine (Moon, Requiem, Desirae, Sequence, Lacrima Engraver) but i can understand that you don't really find it interesting to play
It allows to do something with the bodies u have with Diabell and the Toys or even some of the WF when u face 2/3 Handtraps
you would never play multiple thrust targets in the side on the assumption that you can only access one of them - you would only side them if you were fine with drawing them or needed more matchup coverage. that said, its debatable what targets you should have. the fs stuff loses to shifter and fuwalos even harder, but does play around droll better.
regarding nib/veiler combo; if nib and veiler had WF in the name everyone would go bananas over the combo, but if youre not convinced by the explanations then just play what you prefer
You don’t play mulcharmy?
@@Nooblet92Ca doesn’t fit with power spell ratios
That said, card is broken, play it if you have it, though not every deck can main it, some have to side it
@ would you side it then I have that same issue fitting it in WF
@@Nooblet92Ca yes i would side it for going second against almost everything besides centurion
@@BimYGO thanks bro
EYO i had the same idea with D Barrier in the main since we do play thrust and TTT anyway. Nice to see that im not alone on that pick :D
Its a bad take to play fiendsmith currently, they are just win more and useless if you are under fuwalos
Yeah it’s wild that Engraver was $100 just for it to be made irrelevant by Fuwalos like a month later
@@SkullServant98 hilarious indeed
awesome vid thanks bro love the deck
what wyrm non tuner you using for swordsoul sinister sovereign?
I was asking the same thing ???
berserker
The level eight synchro beserker
ah yes sure with all the lv 2 tuners in the deck right?
@@manuelbrocco5567zappper shrimp
Have you looked at the white forest snake azamina list that has been doing well in ocg
yes - they have az elzette, which is a substantial difference and also searchable off deception. not sure if i want to cover that in ROTA format but definitely will make a video on SUDA format
@ looking forward to it
Azamina Elzette is game changing for WF
Even tho DBarrier is broken in itself, I believe it's not worth maining in this meta since the 2 out of the 3 best decks atm don't care about it for the most part
Still worth siding tho
@@TheMarloncandace you can replace it with ddg and then your matchup spread changes where you can lose to tenpai but turn skip SE
The core idea is just to have a turn skip trap, but I’m not sure what the best one is since daruma might also not have wider coverage
i would suggest playing 3 Silver, 1 Rcia and 2 Elzette, maybe two Tales, since you have 7 options to get to a spellcaster / illuson monster so tales is live
tales is probably the least important part of the entire deck, aside from needed another search target name or specifically opening silvy and no other names. so i dont consider it important to have main deck options to make tales live when youre already playing the entire wanted package plus rabbit
Cutting an Elzette to add another Tales would be a wild choice. All Tales does is turn Silvy normal summon into a non-brick..
@@BimYGO you got me wrong. My idea is - because you have acces to Witch with 6 cards tales will be live almost always. Since there is no bridge between both engines pre SUDA (except Witch send soldier with box live) i want to increase my chances to see a white forest monster e.g. Tales.
@@amimagus8051 Elzette is not as good as silver if you combine it with wanted azamina imo.
@@Athelyn why play a card to search a wf monster when you could just play a wf monster - the topping lists in tcg and ocg have consensus that multiple tales is not good. it being conditional on witch doesnt make it much better, and anyhow elzette is the best starter in the deck aside from astellar specifically sending soldier under box