"SO DISRESPECTFUL!" | The Breakaway React To Primoz Roglic Stage 17 Interview | Eurosport
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2023
- The Breakaway team analyse Primoz Roglic's post race interview fromm the stage 17 Vuelta a España race.
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In that same post race interview Roglic even recalls that he didn't have that much fun the last time he was on this climb. Did he just forget who waited for him that day in 2020, saved him that day and probably allowed him to WIN the Vuelta by 24 seconds in 2020? Sepp SAVED him that day.
I know, but by his own logic sepp should have ridden away if he felt stronger😂
Situations couldn't be more different, also we don't know what the deal was yesterday. In addition, Primož is not a threat to Kuss. So I am not sure what you're talking about.
@@bojandolinar1535 both Jonas and primoz are a threat. The fact that they both rode away and not pulled the leader of a three week tour is disgusting. The team is dysfunctional at best or sabotaging their own leader at worse. And please elaborate on what you mean also
@@Joseminario You are making up drama, you don't know what's going on inside the team and you judge as if those were facts. Pathetic.
All this novel drama is pathetic, the team is already winning it doesn't make any difference who wins. I doubt Pogacar agreed to let Adam yates be new leader and work for him because he got the yellow jersey first in tdf.
@@Joseminario afaik Jonas was not tied to Primož, there was no reason to follow him.
My point was that comparing this with Angliru 2020 is just wrong.
The only reason people were (are still) losing their minds was that Kuss suddenly had just a few seconds left, but he had them over Jonas. Primož was still far behind.
Well, Primoz is still more with one minute behind Sepp, and this so-called experts never said anything about Jonas when he attacked and came back from more then 2 minutes only to 8 seconds down. Primoz won the king stage of the Vuelta, and the red jersey is still on Sepp. Honestly, I see no reason why he should let the Angliru to be won by someone else. I think so-called experts should start to think first, talk after. And they should definitely look in the mirror.
I remember when Carapaz had Roglic on the ropes on the same climb a little while ago. Guess who came to the rescue?
It was Team Movistar at this time
Sepp kuss
Which was his job
I really dislike this stupid woman. In fact, I Don't like this post.
Vingegaard and kuss
i think everyone should understand that it is a big mental shift for these guys to go from giving their all to win the race to giving that up to work for an unexpected teammate. i would say this is especially true for roglic, who I assume prepared the most for this race, and targeted it the most.
yeah it’s very easy for ppl to paint these narratives of loyalty. and of course we were all happy for the domestique, who let’s face it, only this year people started calling him a super domestique, to all of a sudden be GC leader.
but, but, but, this was a very soft Vuelta, because all the other teams came with either the wrong crew or the wrong strategy; and the other teams were tactically bad so often, that Jumbo Visma really didn’t have to push that hard. They dropped the only real competition, Remco, without even trying. Remco and Quickstep dropped themselves basically.
So let’s rewind for a sec, and ask hypothetically if there was any significant competition from the other teams, what would the directeur sportif say to Sepp? the team would’ve made orders for Sepp to die on the cross for Primoz (again, and as hired to do). It’s the lack of competition from the other teams that allowed Jumbo Visma to play the (imo cynical) narrative of the helper finally winning (cynical because he’s American and in their minds this is lucrative market for sponsors etc)
What about Vingegards attack day before, how is that any different?
Open your eyes, you might figure it out. Or watch The Breakaway from the day before will help you.
2 days ago Jonas jump for stage win and Roglic stay back and lose his second position, but yesterday Roglic jump for stage win and Jonas also jump. It is clear that Jonas has to stay with Supp yesterday. It is his 100% shame, not Roglic one. Why everyone attacks Roglic, lol.
Yep, I lay this on Jonas' doorstep, too.
Sepp has been the primary climbing domestic for both of them for five grand tours in a row. Not to mention all the other stage races he has helped win. It’s a pity that these teammates don’t understand that they didn’t do it by themselves. It’s even worse that management is blowing apart the team they fought so hard to build. Maybe because Jumbo Visma is not sponsoring in the future, the team won’t be able to pay Sepp, Jonas and Primos, so they are willing to burn a promising American, to keep one star.
The worst part was, yesterday was Sepp’s birthday!
Happy Birthday Sepp Kuss!
@@simonrudbech1792 Looks like they got the word before today's stage. Social media has destroyed them. yesterday was quite diferent, and you have to be blind not to see it.
@@simonrudbech1792 where do you get the drugs you’re smoking I’d like some
Lest not forget he's made them millions.
Who wears the red jersey? Kuss. I see no reason why should Roglic give him the Angliru win. But here's your cheance, explain me.
@@Melee973 No one said to give Kuss the win, only that attacking and taking time off him was completely against all pro cycling unwritten rules.
To those who argue that, “the best man should win”, remember all the times that “domestiques” have slowed down to support the “team” leader even though they were the “better” riders. Let’s see if they support Sepp Kuss on the last mountain stage, now that all have better time differences to the next teams.
This is not the same. They might have sacrificed a stage win for something bigger. This is a different story.
uhh, nope.@@nultianeks
@@nultianeks Nope. Want to have loyal teammates? Then do the opposite of what Jonas & Primoz are doing. This has happened in other teams previously and those teams completely changed staff as a result.
You race to win. Would you want to win a grand tour knowing that there were 2 guys who gifted it to you? I have nothing against Sepp, but the best should always win.
If Kuss decides not to be loyal in the future, he will loose his job. That simple. As it should be. He's paid to be a domestic. If he's stronger than the leaders, he will win. If he's not, he shouldn't. @@davidfrye7713
Sepp Pulling them all the way up, he rode in front of them as he usually does, even though he's in the red shirt.Instead of honoring him, they chose to humiliate him. The situation was created out of the team's strategy, he has a chance to win after he has helped them so many times and will help more, so why are they throwing him to the dogs?
Exactly, very disgusted by the teams actions
They don't know what tempo he can follow, so it is easier to let him set the pace himself. Roglic should not have started pulling though. They should have continued to see what tempo Kuss could make.
@@holmbjerg well they do have radios. He can literally tell them to slow down or speed up a bit. That team is a mess right now
Because that's his job. Don't be a romantic. This is professional sports and business. I would never want to win knowing I wasn't the best.
@@WillemOlivier2012 it's about being professional. They put him in a position to win and then go back on their own tactics, that are working btw. Please don't tell me what you are watching on TV looks professional
Primoz has been supporting Sepp for red since before the start of the Vuelta. He is the one that got screwed by the team when they made him sit back and let Jonas go up the road solo, twice. Primoz could've followed and likely was even stronger on the Tourmalet especially (Sepp also appeared stronger that day). If the team treated its two outright leaders fairly, Primoz would be second and Jonas third, and Sepp would still be in red if he had also had the freedom to chase Jonas on stages 13 and 16.
"I never again want to receive the assistance I'll need to win a major stage race"
-- Primoz Roglic
How dare some Slovenian go for the stage win with no chance of overtaking Sepp in the overall cllacification while Jonas attack and almost wiped out Sepp's 2 minute lead in stage before!
@@Kintabl, so, support Sepp against Jonas? Another teammate?
Whatever people's opinions on this, there's absolutely no doubt that this is going to create a lot of bad feeling within the team. Jumbo Visma have been the strongest team over the last few years, but this could be the beginning of some problems for them.
Maybe somehow it brings out glossed over unspoken conflict. They've given smaller races for Sepp to win with very little or no help.
What problem? Because white shirt guy disagrees? In any sport domination has challenges. Look at F1. But I don't think 'Jumbo' will have any negative business impact in the Netherlands with this dominance. And that's their market. It will only be positive for them.
@@WillemOlivier2012the team lost both of its title sponsors. Both Jumbo and Visma are not renewing their money going forward. That’s an issue already without the rider drama
Jumbo just needs to get rid of Roglic.He is envy and the attack made him even more a selfish fool.Let him go and let Jonas and Sepp do the winning.
The problem is between Primoz and Vingegaard. Vingegaard attacked and lapped Roglic because of the lack of pulling from other teams, twice. I think Primoz tried to drop Jonas more than Kuss, because it can't be funny to be behind Jonas when he raced a better GC in general.
Funny yes, except that Roglič is behind because he stayed with Kuss. He even let Kuss launch before him once.
@@bojandolinar1535 yes i think that's why he went for it yesterday, if not, probably Jonas would hahaha
If these two so-called champions will disrespect Kuss while fighting over 2nd & 3rd places, then maybe they both need a slap across the face to wake them up.
@@markdwelchforcongress4456 No. Kuss should be better. Otherwise he doesn't deserve to win. The best rider deserves to win. Which clearly isn't Kuss
@@WillemOlivier2012 Then why have teams ? Whjy not just 200 individual entrants
really if you want answers you should be asking the manager of the team what is the instructions to the three amigos.
It actually doesn't really matter what managers say at this point, if they smart then Roglic and Vingegaardare perfect domestiques tomorrow. Otherwise they do more damage for their brand than they can reverse. This #GCSEPP has blown up more than any tour win, only question is how they choose to handle it.
So it’s was ok for Jonas to take a minutes out of Sepp, but not ok for Primoz to take seconds.. you all love the skandis
Yeah, I am pretty sure that with these mental gymnastics, it's probably Primož's fault that Jonad is so close to Kuss. Actually, that is exactly what they are saying.
Cmon guys. You are talking about primoz who attacked 2 km to the finish line and he was 1.30 behind kuas. Vingegard attacked twice and no one was pulling from jumbo visma. Primoz allways staid with kuss as long as he could even tho vingegart took his 2nd place from him. He only went for stage win today and he slowed down when he saw that vingegard is behind him.
Both situations are ok! I want a real winner on the road!
@@pedrom1619
You can look at this from two perspectives. "Strongest man wins" perspective is totally fine but then you make this policy from the start and it should apply to all team members equally. "You don't attack team mate's red jersey" or "Sepp deserves it" is also fine, but then the third placed rider stays with the red jersey when second placed rider attacks.
I am actually fine with both perspectives, but I can't understand how in any of them they try to paint Roglič as the bad guy.
@@pedrom1619 Ok then give back all the wins from Roglic that Sepp saved. And all the other riders' GT wins when the team played a role. In fact, let's end with the teams and have it as an individual sport at last
You don't understand but in competitive cycling there are leaders in the teams! And they are called upon to win or at least fight for it! @@claytonmuller21 Hence why the team is allowing them to compete with each other! Having said that, I understand and agree that Sepp would be a deserving winner! But you are asking the other two guys to remain still after the first week and half of Vuelta, when they were not able to go on a breakaway, yes because Sepp was allowed not only by his team but by the others as well (since he was not seen as a threat).
💯
You are being unfair towards Roglič. He stayed with Kuss on previous stages when Jonas jumped but when Primož went, Jonas couldn't resist.
"By many accounts - The US Postal Team is the most hated bicycle racing team in history". Jumbo Visma- "Hold my Bidon (BEER)"
Well Jumbo is Postal 3.0. Guess Sky is happy Jumbo has overtaken them on the hated list.
Jonas and Primoz are substantially indebted to Sepp and selfishly dropped him to pursue their own ambitions, particularly Jonas. Jonas did not have to go with Primoz, it was done deliberately to gain time on Sepp. If it wasn't for Mikel Landa, Jonas would be in red. Jumbo Visma have gone from a PR gold mine, to a PR disaster in one stage due to selfish ambitions from 2 riders 😐
It was Primoz who set the tempo. It would have been weird for Jonas to stop following the wheel. But Roglic probably should have slowed down.
I think it comes from the DS, but I'm just guessing here. Not that primoz or Jonas don't have an option either. I know they have to follow orders but if I was either of them I'd probably say my legs aren't feeling too snappy to attack and just help out sepp, but at the same time I'd be chasing a teammate if one is up the road, it's a very weird situation. They should really be protecting the leaders which is kuss
Good or bad PR, it's publicity. And probably fo4 years to come, people will talk about JV
@@harimathur2191 you do have a point. For me it's horrible pr and it looks like roglic doesn't like it either unless he is pretending. Do not know about Jonas though
@@holmbjerg I understand Roglic was going for the stage win but Jonas didn't need to follow him in my opinion. He should've stayed with Sepp and paced him.
This is a unprecedented moment for a cycling team… no team in history has been in this position… they are nothing to compare or to judge it. This drama is clouding the historic event that is occurring… once again the media is hampering the athletes from being athletes and making them into drama actors… this is cycling in the highest level… not a Netflix show…
If you look at history of cycling there has ALWAYS been dramas
The drama IS the history
Drama IS a part of the sport, as well as it being a TEAM sport. Your comment really doesn't make sense.
Jonas made a huge deal when Wout Van Aert went for the stage win in last’s year tour of France leaving him behind. Now, he is not even winning the stage and leaving his teammate behind.
Proof? I never saw Jonas make a huge deal of it.
The analysts did... just like in this case... (whether you agree or not).
Where did he make a huge deal out of WvA winning? I don't think you will be able to find him saying anything non-supporting about WvA.
Roglic needs to go to Ineos or Bahrain as a Captain and go all in for the TDF 2024...
Replying to this comment now because you were right.
@@HeidiLandRover I am not to disappointed with Bora but I was hoping 4 Ineos...
The egos of R & V is far greater than their respect for Kuss, even if he's helped them both beyond all measures.
The team d.s is ultimately at fault.
It seems the top guys a bit spectrum-y
You may be 100% right! But, I heard the radio communication was terrible half way up, there may be no communication at that point! They could of slowed down for 10 seconds on the 1 km downhill section, just to make sure he is as near by!
Yeah that guy Plugge was so wishywashy. He sounded like he backed up Roglic - man to man, right. Hope he looking for another job cuz he is doing Jumbo Visma bad leadership, bad decision.
Really? Explain me why should let them win Kuss the king stage, the Angliru, when they are still behind him. You can also explain me what happened on stage 18. Go on.
It's amazing how fans can influence Jumbo Visma's strategy through social media
It's more than fans, other riders, retired riders, etc.
It’s amazing how the negative vibes were generated so quickly and made their way to the sponsors and upper management. Hope they’re looking for a better sports director cuz this one let down the whole team!
If you can't see how this would destroy team chemistry then you are an idiot.
It's amazing how they rode so poorly that it sparked a massive online outcry to wake them up from their selfish craze.
This is an overall grand tour win, not a stage win. The team leader/leaders are clearly within striking distance, they should not be gifting a grand tour overall win to one of their underlings, no matter how it makes any of you"feel". It is a team sport but let's not forget that the sport labels them as domestiques, by definition they are there to support the team at the expense of their own placing. The team is going to finish with all top 3 placings, Kuss is a great rider but his timeline on that team age wise is overlapped with Jonas and to a lesser extent with Primoz. If Kuss wants to compete for grand tours then he should probably move to a team where he would be the obvious leader. The trade off for him would most likely be to a lesser team, which undoubtedly leads to lesser placings on a non winning team. It is a meritocracy sport and Jonas and Primoz have earned there placing at the top of their team. Sepp was hired for a specific job and it was not to compete for grand tours, it was to be in support of them. If they gift this to him he will always know that he did not really win it. I believe he would have been passed by both and maintained 3rd place. It is a joke to argue that they should give him an overall grand tour win, stages are given in respect to domestiques, not grand tours.
It wasn’t for Roglic to wait, it was for Jonas to wait with Sepp
I agree with that 100%
Both
Primoz deserved that stage, he was not going to take red especially if Jonas paced Sepp.
Jonas should have stuck with him and let Primoz go because he had already attacked and won previous stages.
Getting all three of them within the closest gap would have been best.
People seems to forget the roles of each rider in the team. Kuss was hired and is payed to be a domestique. That's his job. The team determines if his role has changed and they are not saying much in that respect. Unless the team say Roglic and Vingegaard should ride for Kuss to win GC, I completely understand the frustration of Roglic and Vingegaard. They are co-captains of the team and the stronger riders.
Let the bidding wars begin... cant wait to see Sepp riding with Tadej or Remco!!!
If you had asked me about something like this in April or May I would’ve said absolutely not… Now I’m praying for it!
Sepp took a 3 year contract until 2025. So the other team would need a buy out. Also Sepp is exceptional, but not a top 15 TT guy. So the acquiring team would have to target stage races with low TT miles. JV could manage this easy running Sepp as leader at the 1 week races, while Primoz and Jonas tune up for the GT's. Sepp really knows himself.
@@mikemassaro6576announcers mentioned Sepp was barely on his TT bike this year. He also usually takes it easy in the TT. I'm sure if he focused he could improve. Maybe not top 10 or 15 but still improve his time trial.
4:18 "One rider crosses the line with his hands in the air." It's telling that after Roglic won after attacking Sepp, no celebration, no hands in the air. Empty victory.
Eurosport turning cycling into wrestling.
more entertainment equals more clicks and more money. no one could blame them. next season riders will wear funny costumes and masks and have their own song and finishing move
No, Jumbo-Visma are doing that.
Eurosport are normally way too up the cyclists to criticise them. This is about as one-off as it gets, because what Jumbo are doing is so egregious to what cycling is.
Obviously there are a couple of Nicks here that know nothing about professional bike racing.
Before anyone says that Sepp deserves a shot at winning the Vuelta, I would argue he has earned the right to ATLEAST have a shot. Forget all the help that he has given to Roglic and Vingegaard and look at this situation: a rider who rode himself into the leader's jersey, has done a decent enough TT to keep it, and has kept himself in contention for the overall; Sepp has earned the right to have a shot.
Also, I find it unfair that the riders are getting so much heat, the DS's and TJV themselves put themselves into this mess. The riders can only do so much decision making during the race.
The commentator said it! Roglic wasn't ever going to take Red over Sepp. But why did Jonas follow Roglic? He wasn't tied onto him. Jonas could have pulled Sepp up. Turns out he did just that one stage later. Weird times, but Samen Winnen in the end! Go Sepp!!!
they never spoke about jonah like that like wtf????
This was Primož's race. Then the team called Jonas for no reason. They happen to found a compromise with Sepp. Why did Jonas put over one minute into Kuss the other day?
Some of you may find it beneficial to detach names from this situation and view it purely as a team sport, with riders united in supporting the Red Jersey. Teammates shouldn't engage in internal conflicts over the jersey. In fact, when I initially looked at the lineup for this Vuelta, I wondered who Jumbo-Visma had in mind for the red jersey. Jonas and Primoz were the only two riders I even considered. When it ultimately went to Sepp, I believe many of us rallied behind him and started cheering for the 'underdog,' so to speak. I think it's because people can relate more to these 'normal' (though still incredibly talented) riders like Sepp, who don't receive the same level of stardom that Jonas, Primoz, Tadej, Remco, and others do.
Who is Primos?
We've seen Jumbo give Pogacar the Jumbo one two attack - but who would have thought that Jumbo would give Sepp the same one two attack!
It’s so weird how in the interviews primos and Jonas are talking like they’re not teammates with sepp just good friends or something
Sepp Kuss has contributed for most their victories. I think he should get this one and only chance to win the GC of the Vuelta #respect
Yeah the stronger riders should definitely hold back to give a GT win away. I bet Sepp would feel very accomplished knowing that he got rewarded with a win for doing his job as a domestique
Yes and while they are at it how about at next years TDF the strongest riders on TJV hold back and pull for Wout and give him the chance to win as well and reward him for all the work he has done as a domestique. No need for multiple time GC winners or captain's.🤦♂
The difference is that they were the strongest riders in their victories. Sepp Kuss is not the strongest rider and everyone knows it.
@@dpcater And that's what people remember Bradley Wiggins for, to be gifted a triumph he never deserved
@@KILLTHEREDDITOR No. He's paid to do his job. The stronger rider should win. I'm getting so tired of this romantic BS. Go and watch Hollywood movies. This is sports and business. If Kuss is the best, he should be 'rewarded'. If I were Kuss I would feel very unrewarded being given a win, knowing I wasn't the best.
these talking heads miss the mark! they should talk about Jonas threatening Sepp... Primus is still one minute back.
Why did it take Jumbo Visma management two, almost three, days to tell the two bigheads that you do not attack a teammate in the leader's jersey, particularly when that teammate has done so much for you, so often. I think Kuss should leave Jumbo Visma, surely lots of teams would want him and would treat him better.
Im pretty positive Sepp said on the radio something along the lines of "Im gone guys, go race", so your point makes absolutely no sense.
Agree...
“I’m pretty positive”. Oh ya? How do you know that?
@@Scott-iz2yt alright scott
I’m sure he didn’t, there was no threat to the GC, Ayuso was already dropped. Jumbo is probably going to fall apart after this, or they’re going to have to pay riders a lot more to put up with the lack of respect and loyalty.
You clearly don’t understand what Kuss has done for them both over the years and the next rider is 4 minutes behind them. They should of both waited and brought Kuss home as he’s done for both of them over the years.
Great commentary by people who really know this sport. I feel Iike I've been taking crazy pills the last two days watching teammates attack the leader with no other team up the road. They all have stage wins. The team will win it's 3rd GT in one season. What more do you want/need? Sepp has another year in his contract and will destroy himself for Primoz and Jonas next year like he has for 6 prior GT victories. Everyone just shaking their head.
You're wrong, this is poison from people who hate TJV. If would be commentary they would explain why should Roglic let Kuss win the king stage of the Vuelta when he's still with more than a minute behind. We all know there's no explanation for this. But you can do that.
@@Melee973because that stage will mean nothing. It showed how selfish they all are, going for meaningless victories while letting your leader suffer. Maybe Sepp had legs many times when he couldve gone for stage win, but he waited.
So better stfu with your soyboy views about this situation
Yep. And reading all these ridiculous Cat 6 comments
Easy to check your predisposition. Reverse the roles. Sepp attacking late stage with Primoz up by 30 sect. Or Jonas. All good? or would Sepp be shredded in the media? @@Melee973
@@mikemassaro6576 well I do not remember complaining on a team member for taking stage a victory when the overall leader still had a considerable lead. GC-s sometimes give stage victories to the team. Here everything is about the previous ten days when everybody was guessing whether will be Kuss let win the GT or the GC-s will claim the overall win. Now we know who won the GT.
Is it respect for Sepp Kuss that is the issue or rather the competition between Roglič and Vingegaard with Kuss as collateral damage?
you are correct. Roglic will have to leave even though he was responsible for their years of success.
Jonas - Egoist.........Primož - Respect
I guess it is team tactics unless an American is in the lead. Also, if I were Sepp Kuss, I would definitely leave Jumbo-Visma as soon as the contract allows. His stock way up. This is supposed to be a team sport after all. That is, only while Kuss supplies the support for those other two these last few years. Strongest rider should win? The optics, however really stink. If they don't help Kuss, I will no longer support either one of those guys.
Interesting what Sean said at the end: Sepp talking to other teams. We’ll have to stay tuned…
In his latest interview Sepp said: In his opinion: he "for sure would" like the team to start defending.
He thinks the "desires and whishes in the race are by now all satisfied" in his opinion he wants to go "to the next stages in a more defensive way"
I hope Sepp can stand his ground in the Team Meeting this evening or tomorrow.
I think Roglic has to be convinced of this opinion...
Everyone attacking Primoz now but everyone is alright with what Vinegard did yesterday? And today? He didn't look back, he followed Primoz without hesitance. I think a race like the Vuelta should be fought for, not given away as a thanks for services to the team.
They should first discuss stage 12 and stage 16 and afterwards, the crazy decision to let the two leaders battle it like that. The directors should be put on the spot and scrutinized for jeopardising the team's cohesion. But I am afraid that is all gone, the trust is no more.
@@yspegelالخيانة من فينغنغارد
Roglic is a minute behind, Sepp can defend that. It's Jonas he has to worry about. But for some reason everyone likes to dunk on primoz...
@@williamric-hansen3983I am also puzzled by this.
Weird interview with Rog, love to see a psychologist analyse that, face and body language was bizarre.
Indeed, he was cornered, betrayed, and left to defend what others (Jonas) did in stages 13 and 16, but nobody questioned Jonas about it, cause he masked it with crocodile tears... Primoz clearly defended the jersey up until stage 17, but Jonas in the meantime was going to win the GC, so Primoz had to leave Sepp behind and go selfish. Sad.
Exactly! It all started when JV got those ''moments" with his daughter and his buddy despite confirmed agreements prior each of those two stages ...
There is no story"for the press?!? So let's turn JV guys against eachother?!😮by the way what happened with Remco
The riders dont drive against each other.......it just looks like it for the spectators, all riders are ridning against their selfes and against their own incability...
Remco burnt all his matches securing enough points for the mountain jersey on the first 2 climbs (rode the 2nd climb solo).
@@Milo-wl2if sad, i really wanted him to at least try to go for the win. With such stuff he just shows he is not (yet) gc material. he is the defending champion and not ciccone riding for a newly sponsored team.
never attack a team mate in red. never. never. huge tradition. complete disrespect for SK. shame on PR and JV.
Vingegaard is the real culprit here; forget Roglic.
JV covering themselves in bad PR, which may well over shadow their dominance of this race. Interesting to see how Jonas sat up and let Sepp get some time back in stage 18, he clearly realised the errors in his ways on the two previous stages.
If Vingegaard and Roglic were 10 minutes down on GC, they wouldn't be attacking Kuss like this.
Ergo, they're riding to take the victory from him, not about stopping the other teams catching.
Unlike other sports, team cycling does give "gifts" to show appreciation to teammates who have helped them win in the past. It's part of the sport and should stay that way.
The gift has never been a Grand Tour before. Individuel stages and races YES of course, but never before have an entire Grand Tour been gifted to a domestique.
same situation, but worse in this case,similiar to Astana Team when Lance made his comeback and Contador was the number one in the team,this kind of situation is bad when you have two grand tour winners and a redjersey in the same team,they never speak the true in the interwie, but they show in the race what is going on inside...i hope Sepp can maintain his advantage until sunday,i will be there to witness💪💪👍
I don‘t want to judge Jumbo Visma now because there are a few days left. To be honest, Sepp barely lost time on the others, only on the team mates. I could imagine that they wanted to secure their positions and win stages. Now they can go full gas for Sepp.
As soon as Sepp looses positions I will critisize Jumbo heavily. But don’t judge them in advance.
By the way: I think that if Sepp dont win the vuelta he should and will leave JV and thatbwouls be a great loss.
Sepp would not be a big loss because they will just get another climber and juice him up with the jumbo juice
@@dev1ce888 my dad thinks the same way as you do 😄
If Jumbo does illegal stuff the others do to, maybe not in the same extend but I see no reason why they should be different from the rest.
Zopet je Primož problem, ne Vinegard, ki je že dvakrat z idiotskim izgovorom pustil Sepa na cedilu, Primož je še včeraj pokrival Sepa, danes je želel zmagati etapo, zakaj Vinegard ni počakal pri Sepu?
Točno tako.....Jonas...je egoist
Zmenjeni so bli da zmaga Primož..niti približno nevaren Seppu..edina podlasica tu je Jonas..
This is what happens when the team DS leaves it open within the team. Chaos!
I haven’t seen the entire post race show but it’s disappointing that in this video segment none of these guys blame the approach taken by the DS until the end of the Angliru’s stage.
No one has done an ounce of work for Sepp this Vuelta except Landa.
Why did Jonas go after Primoz. Jonas should ride with Sepp as did Primoz day before.
If that is your excuse Primoz, why didn’t you tell Sepp to go for it every time he drops back to save you while you race? Clearly your ego is so large you cannot support another rider. Any domestique that wants to race for Primoz and Jonas in the future is a fool, and deserves to be treated like garbage from these two traitors.
This is where their positions come into play. Both of them are leaders and Seppy is a domestique.
But that Can help him win if they want……
You aren't a domestique in the leaders jersey on Stage 17.
Guess who's leading the race now? That is the leader and he is more than capable of winning. This is sooooo disrespectful towards kuss and the team. Kuss should be looking for another team tbh, it doesn't look like he will
@@JoseminarioHe's having that jersey because he made a breakaway with 3 minutes lead, if he wasn't in team jumbo visma and never made that break then he wouldn't be leading the race, for the opposite he would be like everyone else and be +5 minutes behind. Roglic and Vingegaard would have attacked seriously in tourmalet, angliru and today. Today they rode and finished completely fresh, wasn't even worth to finish with the group because they already decided kuss is winning.
@@Queen-be6md Exactly, they created a tactic that worked perfectly and now appear to be acting like children trying to take it away from kuss. If you want a mano a mano a mano between all three, bring it on. It's unprofessional and moronic but ok, lets. Then sepp kuss should have the freedom to work with other riders when his own team attacks him. What you are asking for is for him to fight with one hand tied behind his back against his own team. The team looks as bad as movistar at this point
Rog is too far behind to catch Kuss. But Kuss could sneeze and Vingo could accidentally pull ahead.
I wonder what would happen if WVA was on this Vuelta team. I wonder what he would have to say on the team bus.
Sepp proves he can compete for grand tour GC podium...now he needs to find a team...it clearly isnt Jumbo
Do you really think he would have won the GC without Jumbo? I don't. He would become a Mas or Landa for the rest of his career. Just participate. Finish 5th in the GC, but win nothing. Much better to be a domestique and be part of a winning team and history
@@WillemOlivier2012 Yes, also most don't understand the position he entered the race, he started the race as a domestique and everyone thought so, that is probably why they didn't chase the breakaway that eventually made it and he found himself in 3 minutes lead, people realize that if he entered the race as a leader he probably wouldn't have made it that far, also as you mentioned Jumbo controlling most of the stages, he wouldn't have been able to stick to his ambitions with a weaker team. It's all on the team.
@@WillemOlivier2012 OK Capt. Obvious. It obviously takes a team. You think Roglic or Jonas win without Jumbo?
The professionals in the studio see this for what it is 100%. Disrespect of their race leader.
I think that deep down Sepp knows that if he was gifted the race by his team mates it would be a hollow victory. These are professional athletes who are in it to win it and to win a Grand Tour is every cyclists dream. I think many of us would like to see Sepp win especially after the work he has done for the other two in previous GTs but, I think he would like to win it and not be given it.
You dont understand whats happeninh here. sepp was already in the lead so its not a gift. he earned that and the teams should respect it
@@BenjaminUbayyed-po9tcbut hes not the strongest....
If he was hed have matched the attacks..
So it would be a hift to let him win
Son, it's called team orders. One have to obey, otherwise they won't race again. Theoretically will we see Kuss being say 6th in general on TdF, 2mins down, attacking Vingo and dropping him? We will not see that. It would be the end of Kuss in TJV
So they are screwing Kuss basically
So were Roglic and Vingegaard "gifted" their GT wins thanks to Kuss? Sure, he gets paid to work for them but when things turn around and they might work for him as part of the TEAM. (as the team management said with "All for one...")..how is that a "gift"?
Mr. Kelly just said what I been thinking for a couple of days now . 📳 “Hello Sepp’s Manager. This is DS So-n-so from Team This-That.” 💶
I was a fan of Roglic, a humble & family man but now I should re-thinking it again...
My guess is it's coming from the DS. I mean I saw shame on the victory salute in stage 17 was it? But again just guessing
PR wanted a stage win and he is totally out for himself
Should rename this The Tainted Tour
This snowflake mentality has got to stop. This is a race, these are warriors fighting each other. They all want to win. Sepp Kuss even said it himself, he wants to win, but not to be given the win. He has integrity, so show him the respect that goes with it.
Do you understand cycling? Kuss has been riding support and still managed to put himself in winning position. That alone makes him the best rider of the tour. Now his teammates should support him, like he has supported them. You always help your teammate if he is in position to win.
@@Sobieskichargeeven Sepp Kuss would disagree with your flawed reasoning
Virtually all riders who win grand tours have bad days where their team mates drag them to the finish. Supporting your team leader is something that is as old as cycling itself. Add to that the countless times that Sep has given up a chance at stage glory for his team mates. This was really bad form I’m afraid. I like Primoz but this was not his finest hour. Nor Jonas.
Also if you knew anything about cycling you’d know that these guys are the least snowflake’y athletes you could ever imagine. Why don’t you go try your hand at a C grade race and see how you go.
@@davidbentley4731 it seems even Sepp disagrees with you on that one
So silly s discussion... Because by such logic kuss should have stayed with vingegaard on stage 6, since VG wss better placed.
The legs decide the day.
Thats why kuss gets to go one day, vg another day or roglich another... And everybody wants to put time in the bank.
That strange feeling is guilt and sham buddy.
Surely its up to Jumbo Visma to decide who is the team leader...and direct that
Lantern Rouge: "There is no Sepp Kuss for Sepp Kuss".
Roglic went for stage win, Vinegaard should tow Kuss in but he was paranoid that Roglic would take too much time out of him on GC. Judas wants to sneak a gt win here, I think he is the snake
Just be glad your idol got gifted a grand tour by vingegaard and shut up. Vingegaard is the Worlds best rider and have won the tdf twice he dont have to tow anyone unless he wants to. Vingegaard and Roglic is captain on jumbo visma and kuss is just a helper. Kuss only got the the red Jersey because JV and Roglic let him go in a break away so he could help them later in the stage then he ended up getting alot mins on them. I Think it is a Big scandal that the third best rider is gifted a Grand tour because of cry babies on the internet
Some things are more important than individual glory. The benefit of the Team is a higher calling. These younger guys just don't see it yet..
Jumbo used to be my favorite team. I will never cheer for them again.
Maybe Jonas is looking to get the tripple grand tour crown in a row.
Cinderella story! This super-domestique was never supposed to be at the ball. Step sisters are fuming!
These guys have lost the plot. I mean the commentators. Yesterday Adam Blythe said Jonas wasn’t attacking and just wanted to win the stage for his buddy. Today he thought Kuss was on the radio to encourage his teammates when he got dropped. Finessing a grand tour as a ‘gift’ is the goofiest thing I’ve ever heard. Kuss should be able to hold the wheel tomorrow and win, but this cringe ‘gift’ they’re all cheering for, while totally disrespecting two of the best riders in the world, is really a shame.
No mate, YOU have lost the plot. When you have a teammate in the leaders jersey and he can easily win the race if your defend him, you dont go and attack him. Its not a gift, its simple logic and ethics. Insanely disrespectful from Roglic and Jonas, disgusting
@@hiimrezgaming9885 Kuss has this race in the bag easily, the others know this as does Kuss and with that advantage it is whoever is strong enough to win.
No, Jumbo have just destroyed their popularity and reputation in one tour.
At the time they should be flying high, even their own supporters are jumping ship and turning off them.
No Gift = No Domostique
The result just proved you so wrong
JV just covers the podium. Do you journalists understand cycling?
Don't Vingegaard, Roglic and Jumbo realise, everyone who likes them, likes Sepp Kuss too.
Nobody likes what you're doing.
I love Sepp. I want him to win, but this is a race, right? I’m conflicted. Shouldn’t it mean less if they back off the pedals so he can win? I also think that Sepp at 29 should find a new team. He’s definitely ready for the GC role and would do well to have his own team supporting him.
Yeah, I'd bet his agent received a few phone calls after he held his own in the TT.
If the roles were reversed, Primoz leading, Jonas leading and Sepp attacked them, is that ok? No.
So many domestics have tried that. GC winners are very scares. At 29 it's much better to continue to support, and once in a while take a nice win. As GC contender you won't win cool stages, and eventually only finish anonymously 6th in the GC.
No because Sepp is the far inferior rider and is paid to pull the team leaders to victory@@RB..1
@@harrismazari5484no
Don't be too hard on him. I can totally understand him. He tested Kuss that day, but he didn't break. In that knowledge it's going to be easier for Roglic to give Kuss the win.
Mano a mano does not mean “man on man”!!!
Complete disrespect 😤 I wonder if Pogacar would have done that.. Go Sepp Kuss!!!
I so disagree on this but I don't have any of these people talking here in high regard. It still is the vuelta! It's very clear Primoz would love to see Sepp win but it's not just any race, you don't just give away a chance to win the Vuelta, that would be ridiculous!!
As a former pro this is not how we play as a team. Horrid. We support each other. And their is payback shame on them shame on
? Roglič is not a threat to Sepp. Jonas is. Jonas should wait...
Anyone that thinks what Primoz did was acceptable, go back and watch the 2020 Angliru stage.
Hopefully Sean is correct that Kuss' manager will be on the phone with other teams asap.
Everybody is allowed to go for the win, is what the sport director said today in an interview. Vingegaard wants that
Sepp would win this race and it is him who now is +8 sec behind Sepp.
Earlier Sepp said may the strongest rider win the race. When Sepp supported Vingegaard, it seemed that
Vingegaard was the strongest man or rider in Tour de France.
I think they will definitely work to keep the leading position from the other teams and then we will see
how it ends this week. They definitely will be glad and enjoy that they have won all the grand tours this year
Sepp is a gentleman, the others, not so much.
Jonas is far more dangerous for Kuss but they talking about Primoz lol
Sean summed it all up the his final statement, you won't see Sepp in a JV jersey next year, even if he wins this Vuelta, which he won't ... I cant see it, not Primoz but Jonas... Tonight has breakaway written all over it, the closest guy on GC is over four minutes down, three minutes to Primoz... They all just have to ride together and can afford to let the break go and let others get some glory and show team solidarity for once and allow Sepp to finally have some respect for his years of selfless work ... That alone would be a incredibly fitting end to such a incredible season for JV, instead of making either Jonas or Primoz look like heartless assassins ...
Totally agree
I am here to race, 100% agree
Primož Roglič is not a 'Super - Domestique' - rather, he's a Super GC Rider, who's won four grand tours, and is only missing the TDF in this category.
His conflicted feelings during the Vuelta appear fully understandable to me - even more so, now, with the benefit of hindsight, since he's officially moving to Bora - where, I assume, he'll be given an unencumbered chance, with no (same team) co-leaders, to take the Tour de France (obviously no guarantees).
He's in a very exclusive GC club, with currently only several other riders, at, or above his level - Vingegaard,
Pogačar, maybe Evenepoel, maybe Kuss, maybe a few others - that's it.
He'll have his chance next year with Bora, but to accuse him of selfishness, disloyalty, lack of respect ... is a little over the top, given his level of competitiveness and talent.
Next year's TDF should be very interesting, including
Cav's run for a 35th stage win!
It is the craziest strategy by any team ever! They will destroy the powerhouse built on Primoz cause they can not keep Jonas in check. And now this is all Primoz's fault and disrespect? Not in a million years!
It was roglic who attacked today??
He could for the stage win...jonas should have stayed with sepp
no@@Gomi9
That would be dumb. So now we give a way grand tours out of sympathy?@@Gomi9
@michaelstephan421 who attacked yesterday and on stage 12? Was that too disrespectful?