WAS IT OVERHANGING OR NOT? - Golf Rules Explained
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What to Do If Ball Overhanging Hole Is Lifted or Moved Before Waiting Time Has Ended
If a ball overhanging the hole is lifted or moved before the waiting time under Rule 13.3a has ended, the ball is treated as having come to rest:
The ball must be replaced on the lip of the hole (see Rule 14.2), and
The waiting time under Rule 13.3a no longer applies to the ball. (See Rule 9.3 for what to do if the replaced ball is then moved by natural forces.)
If the opponent in match play or another player in stroke play deliberately lifts or moves the player’s ball overhanging the hole before the waiting time has ended:
In match play, the player’s ball is treated as holed with the previous stroke, and there is no penalty to the opponent under Rule 11.2b.
In stroke play, the player who lifted or moved the ball gets the general penalty (two penalty strokes). The ball must be replaced on the lip of the hole (see Rule 14.2).
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#GolfRules #GolfRulesQuestions #nellykorda
Any amateur golfer knows never to mess with an opponent’s ball wherever it lies.
I've played golf for 50 years I've never touched my opponents golf ball never
I have never touched other guys ball in my life.
ik that wasn’t very smart by the europeans
Never help anyone. Never speed up play.
@@nillejoslin I concur. I pay to play 18 not 4 hours and 15 minutes. And you only touch a different ball if the owner of that ball asks you to. Even then you have the right to tell them to piss off. 😆
Have you played the Ryder Cup?
Just don't touch your opponent's ball
Right
ignorant
They're conceding the putt the players next putt.. It's up to the opponent to decide to concede the next putt or not. Regardless, it's irrelevant if the ball isn't going in because USA couldn't win the hole.
@@ryanokeefe12 Yeah we know they were conceding the putt, nobody is confused about the rules of match play, but he's saying to avoid any issue like this just tell your opponent it's good and let them pick it up themselves, don't pick up your opponent's ball. If you're in a friendly match with friends sure, knock their ball out of there if you want, but in serious competition, just let them grab it themselves to avoid this kind of crap.
@@AbleAnderson Go and tell that to the Professionals that have been doing this for a living their hole lives.
It's borderline rude to be near your opponents ball, give them the putt and then just leave the thing there.
Whether the ball was overhanging or not was a legitimate question. But you can’t let one’s opponent make the determination unilaterally by picking up the ball and removing any opportunity for officials to make the call.
That's a new rule: "If a referee can possible think a ball is overhanging the hole, a putt must not be conceded and the ball picked up". Btw, the referee was able to make a call anyway, and decided the ball was overhanging.
I'm no expert, but for me it looked overhung. But it's very simple, nobody should ever pick up another team's ball within 10 seconds, then it's clear.
Except that 10 Seconds is still too quick. You aren't taking into account "the reasonable amount of time to reach the Hole" BEFORE the 10 Seconds countdown even starts.
Nelly had a 30 foot Putt and would have been allowed at least 20 seconds to first get to the Hole.
Just don’t touch opponent’s ball until official counts it. That is it, clear and simple. I’m not an expert, but what’s the hurry anyway ??
Put an end to the gimmes . Put it in the hole, do not touch the opponents ball. End of controversy.
That will take a huge part of the psychology used in matchplay.
You're just salty.
ignorant
@@christopherprang387 I know. Ron made a very ignorant statement!
@@christopherprang387 I know. Ron made a very ignorant statement!
Sure seemed hasty to grab an opponent's ball. Why on such a close call would someone lift another player's ball???
To speed up play.
Yeah, it was probably innocent, but it just as easily could have been strategic. They knew it was close and wanted to pick it up as quick as possible to make sure it doesn't go in. Just don't touch it. Even when playing with friends, I hesitate (and I think most people do too) before touching/moving their ball, in case they want to still putt it for practice or maybe my mind is somewhere else and there was still a reason for them to putt it.
@@s1dest3p Yeah, it was strategic. The ball *could* defy gravity and travel up the slope and drop into the hole. Golfers should know *never* to do anything that can speed up play.
@@nillejoslin What a ridiculous reply. Perfect time to save 10 seconds of play time right, when a ball is right at the edge of a cup and could have waited 5-10 seconds for Nelly to walk over and grab it. Stupid, just stupid.
@@s1dest3p It happens all the time in match play that a player gives a short putt, picks up the ball and throws it to the opponent. The idea is to save time, especially when one player has a long putt and the other is around the hole. This was nothing different. Nelly Korda didn't react. The referee was the only one that saw an "issue".
I would say that it looked like it was slightly overhanging but unlikely to drop in, which isn't the point. A rule's a rule.
@Michael Olive - Have to agree. Besides, the rule says "Any part of the ball" and from two angles, it looks like at least a small part of the ball WAS over the hole. But as you say, it isn't the point. It is the player's option, not the opponent's option, to decide that the ball isn't going to fall in. And THAT is the point.
2 key mistakes. The player is accorded the 10 sec. rule and regardless of how much or less of the ball is hanging or hovering over the hole. The Europeans pickup the ball before the 10 second rule expired. 2nd mistake was conceding the putt. Match play as close as this, when putt is conceded, only the player of that ball should pick it up. Its not yet a rule but it basic golf etiquette, don’t touch or hit your opponent’s golf ball.
"We don't do shit like this"...... caddy was right.
What is the definition of overhanging? I will assume it means even the slightest bit of the ball over the edge of the cup which the second angle clearly shows. Definitely err on the side of the player on this one since it was odd for the opponent to rush in there and get the ball for her with the impression she wanted to pick it up quickly before it might fall in.
Rule 16-2 states that when any part of the ball overhangs the lip of the hole, the player is allowed enough time to reach the hole without unreasonable delay and an additional ten seconds to determine whether the ball is at rest. If by then the ball has not fallen into the hole, it is deemed to be at rest. That second camera angle shows that a part of the ball was overhanging the lip of the cup and the European player picked it up after only 7-8 seconds.
Similar to Football (as in Soccer) where, to be out of play, the whole of the ball must be over the whole width of the sideline. So in golf, the whole of the ball must be outside the edge of the cup - if any part of the ball is over the edge of the cup, then it is overhanging.
She didn't "rush in there". She saw the putt missed, and the hole halved, so was just getting everyone moving on to the next hole.
@@interestedbystander196 that’s not what the rules say. It was not her place to pick up her opponents ball. She screwed up.
@@dzl8596 She absolutely has the right to pick up the ball once she has conceded that the next putt won't be missed. She awards the gimme.
Not normally an issue to pick up an opponents ball to concede the putt, but in this instance it was, as it was definitely close enough that an opponent should not touch the ball. By picking up the ball the opponent didn't allow any chance for the player to see if it would go in. Even if it wasn't much of a chance, the opponent doesn't have the right to make that call for the player. It's up to the player to make that call.
It doesn't matter if the ball appeared if it was going to drop or not. The Euro player didn't allow 10 seconds and should have, and the rule is very clear here. It was the right call.
It does matter. The 10 seconds applies to a situation where the ball is overhanging. It looks like it was close, but I trust the woman who was literally on top of the ball to make that call. The fact that it was never going to drop is equivalent to it was not overhanging.
@@tutu1547 You are 100% wrong
@@jimstick690 No I am not. I am, however, 100% a better golfer than you will ever be. But that is neither here nor there.
One of many reasons that I love golf is that the game is self-officiated, and based on integrity. The person who in this case had the best vantage was the person who picked up the ball. She explicitly states that the ball was not overhanging. There is no camera angle that shows that it was, so why are we not believing her?
The reason that I am so unhappy with this ruling is that it, along with many other high-profile rulings in the past several years, contributes to an erosion of the trust granted to the players to carry out the competition according to their judgment. The issue here was a matter of disagreement of judgement, not a question about the rules themselves: was the ball overhanging or not? In this instance I am appalled that the rules official overruled the player.
@@tutu1547 though I fully agree with you that the person with the best vantage was the person who picked up the ball, rule 20 says that the referee's decision is final. The fact that it was never going to drop is not equivalent to not overhanging because overhang is clearly defined in the rules as having any part of the ball over the lip. From the first video, I was very sure that it was not overhanging. But the video towards the end makes me doubt that it wasn't.
@@tutu1547 so an Opponent gets to make Decisions about your own Ball.
Yeh, right???
And you need to learn that a Referee *ASSIGNED to a Match* has the Power to act upon any Infraction the Referee witnesses.
You shouldn't be able to touch an opponent's ball unless they ask for it.
I live my life by that rule.
I picked up my wife's ball one time and she still reminds me of it from time to time. I learned my lesson. Don't touch someone else's ball! In my defense I thought it was someone else's ball from a previous round or group. The exception to this rule I have now is if you find a ball that was abandoned by another player while searching for your own in the woods or a hazard/OB area then feel free to scoop it up haha.
It’s match play and she’s on her knees. Common sense should always be applied. It’s a gentleman’s game.
This is not good advice. Every single good golfer that I know picks up his opponents ball to speed up play. This was a freak scenario, and a misapplication of the rules in my view.
@@pigs6486 exacty
I’d been pissed if I was Nelly. Why in the world would the opponent even touch another opponent’s ball?? It just looks suspicious. They’re all professionals and know better.
No, it’s not overhanging the hole… it’s a curtesy to tell her she doesn’t need to make her next putt, she knew it wasn’t going in, shocking
The Golf Gods know the truth! Karma was served!
yes we won happy days
On a related note, I’ve always thought that the practice in match play of “giving” your opponent a putt is a silly practice. Just putt everything out and never touch your opponent’s ball under any circumstances.
This and other similar cases would never occur if the rule simple stays that balls will never be conceded. In your sunday game you concede a 30 cms ball and then realize that even profs may fail in a similar situation
I remember a British Boxer saying, if you wanted a draw, you needed to knock your opponent out! It was his way of saying fair isn't always fair!
Clearly the European player made a mistake by grabbing the opponents ball if it was never going in let the other player walk up there and stand there 10 seconds and pick up the ball. Even if it wasn’t overhanging she deserves the 3 because the opponent should have just left the ball alone. Just make a new match play rule that says you cannot touch opponents ball
What if she did that for a 5m putt ? you would have say "wah this player is awesome!"
A great suggestion. Will benefit slow play enormously!
I didn't see this when it happened live, but it's interesting on the comment board here how so many different people see things so differently. In my mind, it looked like the ball was just barely overhanging the hole, triggering the 10-second rule. And I ALSO believe that the ball had no chance to fall in, determined by where i could see the ball's center when the EU player picked it up. HOWEVER, the rule is there for a reason. I thought it was very odd Korda's opponent got in there so quickly to pick that ball up. It was weird, and it's probably going to do that EU player good in the long run to get hit with a ruling like that. I just don't know any experienced golfer (and i'm fairly avid myself) that would go in and pick up an opposing player's ball sitting on the edge of the hole, primarily just to be sure NOT to cause any ruckus.
“Got in there so quickly”! 😂 She doesn’t start walking until after the ball had come to a stop. And she didn’t exactly race to it either.
Sour grapes. 🙄
@@SLAMDOG0125 I agree. Ball was at rest for 6 seconds and Nellie was on her knees, had she been standing or walking toward the ball this would not be an issue.
@@SLAMDOG0125 You don't go to the hole to round up your opponent's ball without them taking a look-see for themselves, not when it's that close. That's poor sportsmanship, and whether she meant it or not, it had the appearance of the EU player hurrying up "just in case" the ball fell in. I don't have a dog in the fight, that's just how i see it. And we've all seen these pro golfers on TV slow-walking to the hole. They're allowed that time, and THEN once they get to the hole, that's when the 10-second clock starts ticking. I've seen balls fall in beside the hole that i didn't think would fall before, and they took 5 or 6 seconds. Just my humble opinion.
Ref took a decision without evidence. That's the only "scandal".
@@nillejoslin Like that hasn't happened before on the tour
If the overhanging is in question and the opponent prevents the officials from seeing whether it is or isn't you have to assume it is.
Never ever touch an opponents ball.
Right
ignorant
I'd be like, why'd you touch my ball b
@@suryavaraman.4277 Because you have lost the whole. The ball was at rest and you can no longer win. The ball is no longer in play.
Absolutely correct. If you are giving the opponent the putt, all you have to do is say so, not pick up the ball. I bet that is the first time she has actually picked up an opponents ball in order to give the opponent the putt. She almost ran out there to pick up the ball. I don't think it would have gone in, but she wanted to make absolutely sure.
Definitely picked up to avoid it from falling in… not in good faith and not to speed up the pace of play. It had only been 7 seconds… player has absolutely no business picking up another player’s ball when it’s so close to the hole. Point was correctly awarded.
If you look at it the ball was going right to left then hit something and was going right. Was never ever going to go into the hole.
Idk why I am just seeing this now, but its clear to me it is NOT overhanging. Look at this view @3:54, the left side of the ball is lined up with the edge of the cup, I don't even need it to be in HD to see it. Its not overhanging its lined up with it. Also Korda didn't seem to think it was going in either. Lastly, I don't get why all the comments are saying your not supposed to touch someone's ball. Putts are conceded all the time in match play and its VERY common for the opponent to pick up the ball.
If you look upon Solheim Cup as a friendly golf tournament between US & Europe & embrace the spirit of it, you wouldn’t want to challenge something as trivial as this. It’s through friendly gestures that the European player on seeing the ball not going in, pick up the ball without giving a thought about rules. US officials clearly showed their lack of sportsmanship by challenging it.
100%. Left a bad taste in everyone’s mouth
Friendly golf tournament or not, the rule is that the player is allowed reasonable time to approach their ball, be able to wait 10 seconds and then pick it up. The opponent should NEVER!!! pick up an opponents ball let alone before the 10 second time rule.
@@jakethehud do you play golf? In match play that happens all the time.
@@swisstrader I do play golf, which is not the point. Rule 13.3(a) states that a player has a reasonable time to approach their ball and wait out the 10 second rule. As she did not approach the ball in a reasonable time, the player is still given the 10 seconds. She forfeited the time she spent lying on the green but she still had the 10 seconds, should any part of the ball be over the whole. A picture showed it was. In match play if an opponent deliberately lifts the ball, the player's ball is considered holed with the previous stroke.l The opponent is not penalized. Look it up.
They showed incompetence. Though sportsmanship does bot override any rules.
Agreed the European shouldve knew the rules but she was being polite handing nelly back her ball she will learn from it that said she could've waited TEN YEARS it wasn't going to drop glad it didn't matter in the end of the day could you imagine USA won the event by a single point now that would be very harsh on Europe
part of the ball must be overhanging for that part of rule 13 to apply...Doesn't look like it to me.
Yes. This ball was not even close.
If the margin to determine whether the ball is overhanging or not is that slim, and more importantly, the ball has obviously come to rest on the high side of the hole, it definitely should not have been picked up. It was an error in judgment for whoever picked it up. The right call was made.
3:18 this lady gets it.
Exactly.
I am a competitive player, and I have a semi's club match @ scratch tomorrow morning. That wasn't overhanging and never dropping; even if you casted a shadow over top of that ball on the sunniest day that thing was never dropping!
It was absolutely overhanging and they got it right. I don't think it was falling, but it was sitting right there on the edge which is most certainly overhanging and the rules are the rules.
@@christophersiegert8035 No it was not!!!! The woman who picked it up is a f***ing pro golfer!! There is no way in a million years she would pick up a ball that was actually overhanging. In my book, if a professional golfer standing over a golf ball thinks it is not overhanging, it is not overhanging.
It's for the person who played the shot to decide. they have 10 seconds and in a competition at this level I would have thought an opponent would not touch that person's ball without asking if that was OK, especially if it was near the hole.
I was barracking for Europe but it was a dumb thing to do.
@@tutu1547 watching that video and the conversation with the referee, I am not convinced that she was aware of the rule. She argued first that it was never going in, and then only later she said it wasn't "hanging" over the hole.
I think it was a good call from the rules official. The rule is as it is. The TV coverage showed that the ball is (my opinion) not overhanging. Good: They called it directly and not a whole or two later.
Lessons learned: Never pick up you opponents ball. Just give it and walk away.
My HD TV showed it to be Overhanging and the Reverse Angle replay made it even more clear.
Sagstrom didn't really allow Anyone to take a close look at the Hole and the Ball.
Nelly was 30 feet away when she putted for EAGLE.
How can the call be "good" if the ball was not overhanging (definition: some part over the edge of the hole) and especially if there was no evidence?
"Never pick up you opponents ball" Will mean slower play. A player that lag putts from 50 feet to 5 inches will react for 5 seconds, acknowledge the applause for 5 seconds, inspect the putting line for 5 seconds, then walk and pickup the ball for 10 seconds. Then the next player can prepare for the next shot.
@@nillejoslin The difference is that you still give the ball. Your opponent picks it up.
@@henningwinter9751 That means slow play. You have things to explain when you think the call was good but think TV coverage shows the ball was not hanging.
I’ve had my golf ball close to the hole and before I picked it up, it fell into the hole so Nellie definitely gets a 3. The rules are the rules. Discussion done.
😂😂
It missed
Don’t touch the ball...
That was never going to drop in, ever. One of the worst bullshit calls in sport I’ve seen in my life.
@@jswaggart01correct!! that ball actually went past the hole
For everyone complaining about he touching the opponents ball, it’s a normal procedure during match play to speed things up for men and women. This particular case is just different since it may have gone in…
Thank you. Who are all of these people saying you should never touch your opponents ball? The rule states that once you concede a putt the ball is removed--- doesn't mater who does it.
I
For the love...what's 10 seconds????
@@utubchnnl jeez, that's why the rules say wait 10 seconds. God, you're dim
Was looking for this. Thanks for posting
No problem, feel free to subscribe.
@@GolfRulesQuestions I am subbed !! Have been for some time. Love the content.
I heard about this but didn't see it. Now that I do see it that ball i nowhere near going in. Such a dirty thing to do calling the ref on that.
In all fairness, the players didn’t ask the ref. As far as I know, the ref made the ruling on her own. I still think it was silly of Sagstrom to pick it up even though that ball was never going to fall into the hole.
I have played a lot of match play and never touched an opponents ball. You give them the put and they pick it up.
In the Ryder cup it happens often, especially if it's a long put and stops a few inches away from the cup. That ball was to close to be touched though. I don't think it would have dropped but it may have.
SKY CAMERAS were able to zoom into the ball so closely to see Lexi Thomson and Paddy Harrington mis mark their balls, YET no camera shots available here !!! The Solheim Cup went to the winning team with integrity.
Sagstrom didn't really allow for those cameras to "zoom in", now did she?
The Player, and/or the assigned Match Referee, makes the determination of Overhanging or Not.
The Opposition CAN'T make that call.
My HD TV showed the Ball to be OVERHANGING, and the Reverse Angle of the Putt made this even more clear.
What got me a little perturbed was the interview with Korda and Ewing afterwards, Ewing actually stated that the ball was moving which it clearly wasn't.
I believe it was obvious that Korda brought it to the attention of the official and the European team knew it hense no embraces after the match.
But karma won the day, Korda and Ewing were thrashed the next day, in the first match by Maguire and Reid. I believe Korda had a guilty conscious and Maguire was gunning for her, you could see it in her eyes.
Sagstrom got her just reward by winning the cup.
All Korda had to say to the official was that it wasn't moving and the spirit of match play would have been preserved, hopefully young Nelly will have learned a lesson of integrity from this episode.
Bullcrap. It was a simple ruling. Do you play golf or just spew hatred?
@@calcimagnes9124 ohh will you stop with the sensitivity bs, nobody is spreading hate, this is what happens when people are caught out, they play the "hate speech" card.
The world knows what happened, it wasn't a hanging ball and it certainly wasn't "moving" as Ewing and Korda suggested.
It's such a pity our European fans weren't allowed to travel, they would have made their opinions vocal.
And yes I played and was a representative for RAM before moving Stateside.
Looking forward to Ryder Cup, enjoy your golf.
@@patrickfarrell5092 so, if you're so correct, are you saying that the refereeing was wrong? Do you actually play by the rules ?
@@patrickfarrell5092 I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment.
Great comment. Everything you wrote was spot-on. I live in the USA, and I am embarrassed by many comment saying the ball might have gone in. I too wondered why Korda simply did not acknowledge that the ball was not going to go in. It is difficult to respect Korda now.
Even as an 🇪🇺 I must admit that the ruling was correct by the rules, although not by common sense. I see the ball as overhanging (meaning that if you would look at the hole straight from above, its circumference was interrupted by that of the ball (compare judging in shooting events). And that is enough for the rule of 10 seconds to be in play. Would it have dropped in? No f-ing way. But sadly, that has no meaning. The euro player should have been cool enough to let Korda pick it up, but mistakes happens
Is "overhanging" defined that way precisely in the rule book?
I propose a better definition, that happens to be the one that every single golfer employs:
A ball is "overhanging" if the probability that it falls into the hole some time in the next 24 hours is not zero. This ball clearly fails my test.
@@tutu1547 Definition: rule 13.3a: If any part of a player’s ball overhangs the lip of the hole. And sadly, that was the case here. Your definition is better from a practical perspective, but to fulfill that, you would need to wait 24 hours or at least pretty close to it, and that is of course not possible. Unfortunately, I think, that this is one case where rules cant cover everything, and we, as golfers, just should learn to never touch the opponent's ball.
I agree with your take except the claim that there is no way it might fall in eventually. It was coming in on the high side and though it appeared to be "stopped" I have seen in person and even more often on video cases of balls that fall well after appearing to be stopped espcially when overhanging and on the high side of the hole.
@@PatrikNilssonSax According to the frequentist interpretation of probability, you would actually need infinitely many 24 hours intervals-- :). I guess what I should have written was: an experienced player's estimate of the probability that the ball falls into the hole is not zero. This was zero!!!
@Morten Kristensen But it wasn't done so in this instance!!! Did the referee have a bird's eye view? Did we see a bird's eye camera angle? The person with the best vantage was the person who picked it up, and she said it wasn't overhanging!! Do we really think she would lie about something like that?? She is an effing pro golfer!
This ruling was poor not just because it was wrong, but because it undermines in a public way an important component of the game of golf-- it is a self officiated sport. The players are entrusted with the responsibility to apply the rules using their judgement. In this instance, the woman who picked up the ball did not deem it to be overhanging-- SHE EVEN TOLD THE RULES OFFICIAL THAT!!.
Japan Golf Association's translation of "A ball overhanging hole" is "A ball pushing out of the lip of the hole." I wonder if this translation is due to the interpretation advised by R&A/USGA....I think it is a wrong translation.
Sometimes Language doesn't translate well. The Cup Liner travels up and down the Vertical Plane of the Hole, so imagine a cylinder rising out of the Hole. If the Ball touches or breaks through the Imaginary Cylinder then it is "Overhanging the lip of the Hole".
ALL Balls that Fall In the Hole were at one point momentarily Overhanging the Hole.
There is another scenario (which could also be confusing) where a flying Ball will land hitting the Edge of the Hole and Embed there partly in the Hole and partly in the Green surrounding the Hole. (I can't find this Situation in the Rules at the moment.)
@@apaulmcdonough2170 I want R&A and USGA to clarify the interpretation of "Ball Overhanging Hole" with a few kinds of the illustration.
@@MinoruMikeAoki take a Ball, Find a Hole, Place the Ball on the Edge of the Hole. IF the smallest portion of the Ball is in the Air over the Hole then the Ball IS Overhanging.
Looking straight down at the Ball, IF You can see Grass completely surrounding the Diameter of the Ball, IT is NOT Overhanging.
If the Center of the Ball is 21 millimeters or less from the Edge of the Hole, then the Ball WILL BE Overhanging, since a Golf Ball is just over 42 mm (1.68 inches) in Diameter.
If that's over hanging im one putting way more than I think and robbing myself of shots galore. From what I can see the whole ball is out the cup! Add in golf is a game of honesty and Europeans said it wasn't going in you take their word. Once again Americans making a mountain out of a mole hill in the Solheim Cup...
The putt was still active, by the Rules involved. Picking it up was no Different from picking up a rolling Putt.
The Opposition CAN'T make the determination that the Ball is OVERHANGING or NOT.
Player's, and/or assigned Match Referee's, call.
She was real fast to walk over there and prevent any chance of that ball going in
For me in the first picture, it did not look like it was overhanging. This is not some weekend pick up game between friends, so why are you picking up someone else's ball...DUMB DUMB DUMB. They should give the shot just for that.
It's crazy eh! The gimme conceded putts during the entire competition absolutely blew my mind! It's so odd.
That's precisely what did happen.
Sagstrom's picking up the Ball far too soon *made Nelly's EAGLE Putt Good,* which beat Europe's Birdie on that Hole.
The Penalty wasn't "Loss of Hole".
Eagles beat Birdies.
I would never think to touch my opponent's ball.
She was quick to grab it, seems like she was deliberately grabbing it by any chance it did eventually fall in. I gasped when she grabbed it too, why would you ever touch your opponents ball?
Very unsporting to touch an opponents ball when it is that close to the hole, correct decision.
Do you even play golf? It’s actually VERY common to hit an FCs ball back w a putter or toss it back if the putt has been conceded.
@@swisstrader Yes, I do play golf and I play to the rules. The ball was hanging over the hole so the player is allowed time to get to the ball plus 10 seconds before playing the next shot. Her opponent obviously picked the ball up quickly because she knew there was a possibility the ball would fall, very unsporting and the correct rule was applied.
@@geoffdrew5207 there’s a reason there’s a big uproar over this and the uproar is about an idiotic rules official that simply got it wrong. I saw that ball from every possible angle and it would NEVER have fallen in. Not within 10 secs, not within 10 mins. Nope!
Was replying to Geoff Drew by the way.
If picking up your opponents putt after they’ve missed a putt is unsportsmanlike then I need to take up a new sport!
Jesus wept! 🙄
Well, it’s one way to get a win, but the only way that ball was going to drop was by the use of a putter…………..
Keep your hands off your opponent's ball!
Sure, but there is also a rule in there that was in fact broken. Golf is pretty stringent.
@@John-ej2oj I played a game where my opponents and my balls were touching on the fairway 😳
@@mikejones-go8vz This is not an age-restricted channel... Careful with that kind of talk :-D
This ten second rule applies only to an overhanging ball and there was clear space visible between the ball and the hole
As soon as you Call It the "10 Second Rule", you give yourself away.
More reading and less pontificating will do you a world of good.
@@apaulmcdonough2170 When you learn to use capital letters appropriately, you'll be worth listening to. Until then, more grammar reading will do you the world of good.
@@charcolew Emphasis, since I don't have ITALICS.
It got your attention.
Nice objection to style of delivery.
(Step Two in modern "debate", used when you cannot validly argue the point.)
*Good Job!*
So it's the Capitalization that the USGA and R&A use in the Rules of Golf that puts you off the Rules? Got it.
PS: You're also back to Pontificating.
Yes from now on let them bend down and pick their own ball up. Just tell them they can have the next putt. Still the European girls still thrashed them. There seems to be some sort of controversy from the USA at most of these competitions when they are losing.
The European player grabbed the ball too quickly. She probably thought it was going in. Tip: Never touch a ball if there is a remote possibility of an overhanging ball. Note - It was definitely overhanging!
Another great rules situation by GRQ - one you don't see very often in match play. It is incredible to think the offending team in this instance lost 1DN.
It was a swinging right to left putt that obviously came to rest short on the high side of the hole. Would it have dropped? Probably not. But since it was that slim a margin and obviously on the high side, it was an error in judgment from whoever picked it up.
You spelled "offended" team incorrectly.
Solheim Cup has a good history of providing us with GRQ scenarios. Why did ref get involved? Did US ask for ruling?
It would appear they did, but even if they didn't, as the referee was the allocated ref, it was her job to make the call. Roving referees in match play play a different role.
It was obvious that Nelly was a little bemused by the actions of her opponent - you could tell by her demeanour as she was walking back to her partner. I suspect if there was a referee right there greenside, she would have asked the question straight away, which may have led to the ruling. I am only speculating.
The European player shouldn’t have gone next or near the ball
@@GolfRulesQuestions Nu, check your sources. I have one from the one who was closely involved. This was something the referee decided herself, much to the player's surprise. (At least that is what they said to their teammates, in this case, just the one who is my source.)
You are also wrong according to what the referee has the authority to do. She can only rule on this if SHE sees that the ball really was overhanging. The angle see had given her absolutely no reason to think that. (She was too far from the ball to make any determination.) That fact alone doesn't prove that the ball was overhanging. (She ruled on her own assumption that the ball is overhanging until SHE can see it wasn't or 10 seconds has passed.) That's pretty obvious if you look at the event as it plays out. She can only rule if she really sees that the ball was overhanging. (Look at where she stands. Do you really think she even had an unblocked view?! (Even if it was unblocked, could she see anything from so far away?!)
@@ExbotHero Right on.
Rule states the player has a reasonable amount of time to walk to the hole, THEN wait 10 seconds. She could've waited 10 minutes, that ball was never going to drop.
All that being said, it’s common enough for an opponent to hit a ball back to an FC with their putter.
There was ZERO chance that ball was going to drop BTW
Ball was above the hole. Still had a chance to fall. Watch the last angle.
Regardless, if it’s hanging over the lip, you still have to wait. Error by the Europeans and it was the correct ruling.
ZERO? BTW, I guess being in NYC you've never seen a gust of wind.
@@anthonyparkinson5820 would have to suddenly hit a hurricane wind gust of about 80 MPH, while on the day winds were between 6-8 MPH. 🤔
@@swisstrader 80 mph hurricane wind would pick up a player. A puff of air from a child would have put that ball in the hole.
@@anthonyparkinson5820 you’re kidding me right? I saw that ball from every angle and you could literally put 2-3 fingers between the ball and the hole. Zero chance that ball was going in. Zero
In the end justice was served! The bad guys/girls lost. Haha
The Blue player had no bloody business touching her opponent's ball in the first place. Unless, one could argue, she herself feared it might drop in. I doubt she had malign intent, but she should have kept her hands to herself and avoided the appearance of evil.
Red had no business being on her knees delaying play
Come on! That´s ridiculous! The ball was not even close to go in!
@@laidbackmedia Are you joking?
Craig Mooring do you even know the rules of match play? You clearly don’t know what you are talking about.
@@laidbackmedia Even though she was on her knees and not approaching her ball in a reasonable time, the 10 second rule still applies. An opponent should never touch an oppositions ball, period!
As much as I love the European girls, this was an error by Sagstrom. Before the Solheim Cup every Captain should just reiiterate and explain to the team what the policy is when giving putts to your opponent. The rookies especially in this the highest level of Womens matchplay golf should all be fully aware you dont mess with you opponents ball when it appears to be overhanging the hole. This was a tough one but the right decision was made by the officials and the game of golf and the integrity thereof was upheld even if it did appear tough cheese for the European pair.
They made the right call. Thanks for the clip.
The camera footage is inconclusive. Nanna should have left the ball there. It was never gonna go in, but the ruling was correct. It looks like it's overhanging if only slightly. most people say it was so the evidence points toward that. No it was never going in, but the rules are completely square in this situation.
the cup was decided by this discusion was it ???
Any part of the golf ball.... I'm positive at lease one atom of the golf ball was over hanging the hole... end of debate.
Rule 16-2, the player must go to their ball without unreasonable delay. She was on her knees for 6 seconds before the ball was picked!!! That's not reasonable.
I would disagree, in this moments of a big putt, just at the lip… 6 seconds is not unreasonable.. the fact that the ball was picked up after only appearing to stop for 7 seconds, it was well within then time when the ball is not considered at rest. Easy ruling.
the rule explained was time for the contestant to reach the hole PLUS TEN seconds. I'm not good at math, but I think 6 is less than 10.
It's now Rule 13.3a which states a Player has a reasonable amount of time to reach the Hole PLUS 10 Seconds.
The Interpretations of the Rules considers Emotional Reaction to be Reasonable.
Generally a Player is given 2 Seconds per foot of Original Shot Length.
Start measuring your own Approach Time to the Hole after attempting 30 foot Putts, and then there is still 10 Seconds left.
Tiger’s chip at the Masters that sat for quite awhile before dropping
Above the hole so gravity could make it fall in. Balls don’t roll uphill
@@tatchy1001 did you even see the putt? It was clearly breaking towards the hole as it stopped. It was never going to fall in no matter how long they waited though.
Tiger's ball was coming downhill and was above the hole with the likelihood it could drop. Korda's ball went past the cup on the lower side and was NEVER going to go back uphill. No chance. Never mind, the final result of the Cup is what counts.
@@iangodsell9073 well said
@@R6united it was behind the hole, are you suggesting it would have rolled back up hill 😂
3:30 Doesn't matter if an overhanging ball is still moving. When the 10 seconds are up you must tap it in. That rule was put in place because players were hallucinating that the ball was still moving and would stand there forever waiting for it to drop. Mostly this was a problem in windy conditions.
You never touch an opponent’s ball. Period !!
Bobby Jones did. Hogan did. Nicklaus did. It's customary and shows courtesy 99.9% of the time. The other purpose of doing it is so that there is no misunderstanding, since verbal concessions can be misconstrued from time to time.
I’ve played plenty of match play and I let them pick up their own ball. Not a rule but just how I approached match play.
Absolutely agreeable!
@@tashawn2222 Yes. I cannot believe how many fake golfers in the comments here are discouraging people from touching their opponents ball in match play. I suppose good advice is: don't touch your opponents ball if there is a risk that a very bad rules official will mistakenly say that the ball was overhanging.
@@tashawn2222 This particular Rule 13.3a first went into the Book in 1984, (which eliminates Booby Jones, Hogan, and most of Jack's career also) and allows for much more than simply "10 Seconds", since the 10 Seconds Don't Start until AFTER the Player gets to the Hole and Ball.
Sagstrom's picking the Ball up so quickly didn't allow for "those Cameras" to zoom in, or for the Ball to be legally "at rest" either.
As to OVERHANGING or NOT, this isn't the Opposition's call. Only the Player, their Side, and/or the *assigned Match Referee* can make this assessment.
What if the ball falls in after 10 secs? Is it re-placed on the edge?
Yes, or the concession would stand.
There’s a reason she picked it up I’ve never touched an opponents ball that close to the hole
The reason appears to be her opponent never made her way to her ball to check if it was going to drop. She dropped to her knees resigned to the fact it was not going to fall into the hole.
Had she made her way to her ball as she should have been doing, her opponent would not have picked it up.
So you're basically saying the European player cheated. Shame on you
All these people saying she shouldn’t have touched the opponents ball, watch the upcoming Ryder Cup, you will see lots of this. This is an accepted part of match play golf. Get off your high horse and stop being so judgemental. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
She picked it up because they had been placed on the clock for slow play. If she waited for korda to finally get to her feet before walking to the hole and getting her ball it would have added vital time to their length of play when they were supposed to be speeding up. The referee hadn't ascertained if the ball was overhanging ( the key point of the ruling) before making a judgement. The American pair knew the call was dubious yet still celebrated as if they had actually holed a long put to win a hole, not to mention the heckling and boos the European team had to endure directly linked to the ruling. The do anything to win approach to solheim Cup and ryder cup is totally against the spirit of the game. Ask Jack Nicklaus and Tony Jacklin.
@@jswaggart01 learn Rule 13.3b
It is about golf fairness and reality:
I am hcp + 2,5 and I have played multiple match plays in this format... If the opponents don't complain it is in my book settled. The ball is NOT teetering!! when you are as good as these players and have played golf on a high level, you know, that no one would pick up an overhanging ball!!!!! Illustrated by the movement of Korda as she had puttet. She would never go down on her knees if the ball was overhanging. She would have waited and kept her stand-up position to follow the movement on the ball, and she would evidently have reacted to the pick-up...She didn't => she understood that the ball was not close enough to the hole for it to teeter.
I hate the comments: "
do never touch an opponents ball - only high handicappers and/or ignorant golf fans/players react like this because they have no clue about such a golf situation/knowledge/high-level fairness when it comes to an overhanging ball.
BUT the rules are as follows: Even if the ball is not teetering - when a small pct of the ball is overhanging. the rules don’t allow an opponent player to hit/pick up a moving ball. Rule 13 gets invoked, when even a tiny part of the ball is hanging over the lip (also when it lies still as in this ex) - and an opponent player picks it up. = penalty 1 stroke EU -> USA wins the hole with a par.
BUT this rule should never have been accepted by the American players. I would never claim a winner hole for this.
When the ball was thrown back to her, she immediately turns her head and asks another teammate, what I thought to be something along the lines of “was it overhanging” I think assuming what she would have or should have done is wrong, you or I have no idea what she would have done, we can only ever see what actually happened. And unfortunately with no way to confirm if the ball was overhanging, the European played picked up the ball to quickly. An extra few seconds to ensure it was at rest, or to ask to pick up the ball is all that would have been required. Did it change the outcome of the tournament? If not, it is a simple lesson that everyone will remember, with little to no consequence.
The "Penalty" was Sagstrom making *Nelly's EAGLE Putt GOOD.*
Eagles beat Birdies, that's how they Won the Hole.
Christopher, no ball is ever "teetering". No ball, sitting on the edge of the cup moves forward and backward and forward and backward. Balls do, however, sit on the edge and overhang the cup. And it isn't the centre of the ball that has to overhang the edge (because it would then go immediately in thus making the rule meaningless), it is if any part of the ball is passed the perpendicular of the edge of the cup (which this ball definitely was). They may then fall in or not. Hence the reasonable time to approach and then the ten second rule. The opponent picked up the ball without allowing reasonable time to approach then the additional 10 seconds. From start to finish it was seven seconds. As a side note, i've never seen an opponent slink in so quickly to pick up an opponents ball in my life, whether on tv or the local course.
I never played match play....but I damn sure not touching someone else's ball, ever.
That would be considered rude in a lot of cases.
I don't no much of golf but thats a CLEAR no no
Both teams were told before the cup in their rules meetings that any ball that close to the hole don't pick it up give it the 10 seconds. There's no need to argue if it was over the lip or not. It was close enough for the Americans to be allowed their 10 seconds and they were not. So ball is deemed to be holed. That's the rules.
Bottom line is that the player shouldn't have touched her ball.
It's match-play, not stroke play. The whole was over. Learn the rules.
@@ryanokeefe12 I know what match play is; getting the putt won the hole. You learn the rules.
@@MrJeffinLodi What are you talking about?
You say that the player shouldn't have touched the ball.
The ball wasn't going in and therefore, it was impossible for USA to win the hole because Europe had already holed out in less strokes.
If the ball wasn't going in the whole, USA were not going to putt the ball again because they had already lost the hole.
@@ryanokeefe12 Yes, I understand that part, but you don't pick up the ball. I understand the premise, and the logic is sound, yes, the ball wasn't going to go in, BUT, the opponent shouldn't have touched the ball, and, as it turned out, it cost them the hole. that is my only point. It's not up to them to pick up the ball, regardless of their intention. But, yes, to your point, the ball was not going in, and shouldn't matter. But it did. I appreciate your comment.
@@MrJeffinLodi This was a (light) grey area of the rules.. USA shouldn't have questioned the ball being picked up.. it was an unsportsmanlike thing to use a rule to win a hole that they wouldn't have won.
If the ball is an inch or more away from the hole, there is ZERO issue with picking up the opponents ball once it has come to rest.
It did not look like it was close enough on the edge to actually fall but the action from the opponent team player seemed to be in hurry just in case the ball falls. Usually players would say "its good" and let the player pick up the ball. However as it was just enough to be hanging over the hole, official was correct about the call.
It’s common courtesy to pick up opponents ball or marker if you are closer to it than them ☺️
I have seen a ball a half revolution (or so) from going to in, fall in all be itself after a complete stop, to everyone's amazement. She should get the 3.
@@evannahynd6431 no it isnt. Not in that type of situation. Only if it was a gimmy and was a foot away.
I think the official's judgment was wrong. Why should we accept the European player's opinion that the ball was 'never going in the hole' when she has just committed a violation of the rules by lifting her opponent's ball?
It was definitely overhanging the hole. If the grass on that side of the hole was damaged by previous play and sloping toward the hole, the ball may have released and dropped in. It does not have to be 50% over the hole for this reason. Don't pick up someone else's ball when any part of the ball is overhanging the hole. It could cost you the hole or you could even lose the game by a stroke. Simple.
That ball in no way is overhanging. Also the golfer kneeled to the ground after the ball stopped. Once the ball stopped it took the other golfer 7 seconds to walk and pick up the ball. There is no way the ball would of went in. It appears to me the golfer that missed the ball also agreed the ball wasn’t overhanging because she didn’t raise the issue the issue was raised when a spectator said something. When does reasonable time to get there start when the golfer is kneeling on the green the also delayed the process.
It does look overhanging in the video. If you hold an object vertically to the side of the ball, you can see part of the hole on the other side. Regardless, it was close enough that the opponent should not have touched the ball. They don't have that right to decide whether it's overhanging or not, or to pick up their opponent's ball. This would have been avoided, if they had left the ball for the player to either putt out, or pick up if the putt was conceded.
I'm just wondering why you are touching the opponents ball to start with?
Because conceding opponents putts is commonplace in match play
That’s been the case for over 100 years, it is normal, but in this case I would have left it and waited for the player to check it, lesson learned
@@utubchnnl when they aren’t going to roll uphill into the cup they have
Let me help you out there and pick that up before it accidentally falls in the hole, after all we wouldn’t want that would we?
Ball does not appear to be overhanging he hole. Rules official determined interference and then ask if the ball was overhanging.
I guess we learned not to touch or kick one back. Hell, mark it or put it out. No conceding puts until the whole has a clear winner. Just my .02
That ball had ZERO chance of EVER going in!! And I’m American.
That's irrelevant to the rules
@@johnnybgood7442 highly relevant. Otherwise you could claim that EVERY ball has a chance of going in. You could be 10’ away and say it had a chance.
@@swisstrader highly irrelevant actually. The rules state that the ball must be "overhanging" to be given that time frame. Pretty sure it can't be overhanging and also be 10 feet away. Nice try though.
@@johnnybgood7442 you just proved my point. That ball was NEVER overhanging and hence, would never have gone in the hole. End of story
@@swisstrader yeah except it was deemed to have been overhanging. I'm sorry that you can't grasp that, but that's the ruling. And even if it wasn't, that still doesn't add anything to your other point of being able to claim that "every ball" has a chance to go in 😂
If your opponent accidentally drops the ball in the hole while trying to pick it up, what is the ruling?
If they have already conceded the next stroke then it doesn't matter if it falls in the hole.
they knew what they were doing
The ball was clearly at rest and not going to drop. This should not have been an issue but for the unnecessary intervention by the match official.
Still, despite this the US lost, good job Europe!
You should look up some videos of balls in similar situations dropping. And even it wasn’t going to drop, the rule states that you must wait. Or just let the opponent tap it in.
@@yeshuagoodman8519 The ball clearly was not going to drop in the remaining 3 seconds. It should not have been an issue but for the intervention by the referee without being asked as far as I could see.
Still, Europe achieved a rare away victory so it didn't matter.
@@mrradman2986 A Referee ASSIGNED to a Match is supposed to act immediately upon witnessing any Rules infraction.
And a Player is allowed much more than just 10 Seconds before the Ball is deemed "At Rest".
30 Feet from the Hole to walk, and the Interpretation of Rule 13.3a allows for "Emotional Reaction".
Rule 13.3b prohibits the Opposition from denying the Player his/her FULL Allowable Time.
@@apaulmcdonough2170 They could have waited all day, the ball was at rest and was not going to drop. That's why it was given.
You are allowed to wait ten seconds after the ball becomes at rest so there were only 3 left anyway. No reason for a referee to get involved if the player does not complain which Korda denied doing.
It's no big deal and should not have resulted in loss of the hole if proper sportsmanship was being observed.
@@mrradman2986 unfortunately, you are totally wrong. *A Player is allowed a reasonable amount of time to get to the Hole, and THEN the 10 Seconds START.*
The 10 Seconds *Doesn't Start WHEN the Ball arrives at the Hole.*
And the Ball is NOT at Rest until the entire allowable time expires.
*The Purpose of Rule 13.3a is to determine WHEN the Ball IS Officially AT REST.*
Less RUclips "education and pontificating" and more actual comprehension of this Rule is greatly needed on your part.
A simple change in rules, only putter, or the putters teammates, can pick up the ball...End of controversy.
That being said, overhanging or close to overhanging, wait the ten seconds, avoid controversy or a possible penalty.
It's not like she picked it up straight away. 7 seconds actually passed, so she misjudged by 3 seconds. I challenge you to count 10 seconds in your head accurately while under pressure.
@@davidjames3080 well that in it self is also questionable, when does the timer start? When the ball is completely stopped? and who determines that? Just allow the putting team the right to pick up the ball exclusively...problem solved. Of I'm the opponent, I should be looking to avoid controversy of any kind.
@@davidjames3080 you are immediately INCORRECT when you limit this to simply 10 Seconds.
Find and read Rule 13.3a.
Then find the Interpretations of Golf relating to Rule 13.3a
Finally, the Opposition CAN'T make the determination of OVERHANGING or NOT. This is the Player's, and/or *the assigned Match Referee's* call to make.
@@lukenovotnak3909 first of all the Player is allowed "a reasonable amount of time" *to reach the Hole and THEN the 10 Seconds of waiting time Starts.*
Nelly's Eagle Putt was from 30 feet away. *Sagstrom was a lot more than "3 Seconds" too quick.*
Find Rule 13.3a IN The Rules of Golf, then find the Interpretations of the Rules concerning Rule 13.3a
Plus OVERHANGING or NOT was never Sagstrom's Call to make.
It would have to fall backwards uphill 🙈🤷🏻♂️
Not really. The putt was breaking right to left so it definitely stopped on the high side of the cup.
It clearly was overhanging. Slightly but clearly. It sure AF wouldn’t go in but, it sure AF was overhanging.
PS: WHY THE F* WOULD YOU TOUCH THE OPPONENTS BALL? Really. Deserved!
Yes, the opponent doesn't have the right to decide that the ball will or won't fall in, or can be picked up.
why is anyone surprised by this from an American ? not in the spirit of sport , not in the spirit of golf , totally in the spirit of win by any means fair or foul
I thought maybe she was trying to do her a solid to get the point or something, but contesting it after.....nahhhhh. Don't touch an opponent's ball, dork.
3:15 "it might have been it might not have been" - no shit.
I personally dont think that ball was overhanging but I also wouldn't ever pick up the opponents ball unless asked to.
Isn’t it common practice to never touch an opponents ball? In particular a ball that is so close to having a chance to fall in (even if a remote chance). The referee made the right call. Leave your opponent’s ball alone.
The referee would never have called this rule against the American team…..Here in the UK it’s called ‘bias’. In America it’s called ‘ go USA!!!!!!
Why didn't they zoom in? European player shouldn't have touched that ball. Leaning experience for her.
Sagstrom really didn't allow much time for Cameras to Zoom In on the Ball, considering they were focused on Nelly and her reaction.
While the ruling favoured the Americans, and Karma played a role, watching the replay over a few times, a seasoned golfer like Sagstrom, seemed to be over eager to pick the ball up too quickly, and should have been the focus of the lesson. It wouldnt have harmed anyone if she left Korda pick her own ball.. or wait a few more seconds. Id say that was the cause of the controversy. Going by her judgement, the referee overstepped her neutrality by using the overhanging angle to make her point. The speed at which the European player got off the blocks and picked the ball is enough for me to award the hole to the US. That is KVC.
Im salty because this happened to me once. Except my opponent followed my ball to the hole and lifted it off the edge before it stopped moving from my perspective. He swore up and down it wasnt going in and was as least an inch from the hole but didnt give it 10 milliseconds let alone 10 seconds. Fuck you burton.
So…it’s OK to let your opponent determine if the ball was overhanging the hole. If the definition of “overhanging” is whether or not any amount of the sphere of the ball has broken the plane of the cups hole traveling vertically toward the sky…well, the it was overhanging. Even a gust of wind or breeze could have sunk the ball…so how about you don’t touch your opponents golf ball. It’s in the rules…sorry Europe, you shouldn’t have touched the ball…if there was no chance of it going in, why did you rush over and pick it up. Sure looked suspicious to me.
Shold Nelly go to the ball. She didnt try to go there within «reasonable ampont of time». I am confused. She did not go to the ball. She could have got there in the time she sat on the green. I am still confused about this rule.
The main subjectivity about a ball overhanging the hole, is in determining when the ten seconds starts.
The Rules state that the player must not delay their play in getting to the hole, other than the permitted allowance for emotional reaction, if they do take an unreasonable amount of time to get to the hole, the ten seconds would have already started and may have already finished.
Definitely overhanging if you imagine a cylinder same size as the cup extend it up over the hole straight up it’s definitely going to touch that
It would never ever will go in, but the golden rule do not touched opponent ball.
Korda was making no effort to approach the hole to start the 10 seconds, so I assume she thought she had simply missed an otherwise excellent put.
Whether it was overhanging or not, the lesson for me as an opponent is not to pick up the ball and invite controversy, but to concede immediately and invite the player to pick up. It would then be up to them to approach the hole and remember to wait the 10 seconds.
@@utubchnnl Don't talk rubbish, you could have waited ten minutes, it was still never anywhere near dropping in.....
@@G.5.B.H.M you're the one talking rubbish. The Rule allows a reasonable amount of time for the Player to approach the Hole, and then 10 Seconds. The Rule determines when the Stroke is over.
The Stroke was still active when Sagstrom picked the Ball up.
@@apaulmcdonough2170 Yeah yeah, whatever.....rules, rules, rules.....😇.
@@G.5.B.H.M if there are no rules, then there is no game or sport.
@@stupidas9466 That's fair enough. In that case, "gimmes" should be done away with and hole out every time. Then that will stop the likes of DeShambles (miss-spelling intended) and Justin Thomas crying about having to make a three foot putt in the Ryder Cup last week. Congrats to the yanks by the way.
Pretty clear it wasn’t overhanging. However it goes back to the old “never touch your opponent’s ball”.
Yeah, by the definition of "overhanging" it was.