I built a DEF transloading facility in Canada we received DEF in rail cars unloaded it and packaged it in drums and totes. Out of all the engine manufacturers I believe Volvo has the least issues. That’s because it was in use many years earlier in European trucks.
I've seen Volvo powered motorcoach busses, I've always thought it would be cool to have a Volvo powered motorhomes as Europe built vehicles are usally more reliable in general.
Yep...DEF...Overpriced urine...I'll keep my 05 C13 Cat pre-def...Nothing to fix...Nothing to trick...There is enough to stay on top of...This is just more stuff to worry about...Thanks Andrew for the videos...I appreciate them so much...
Thanks for highlighting this issue. Please contact Cummins and the other engine manufacturers and ask them to comment. They should give us the option to ignore the sensor so that we can get home and fix it properly. This is allowed for ambulances and fire fighting trucks, why not us
Chong (sp?) the diesel tech, admire techs who become experts in their field. He is someone to keep happy on the payroll. Also someone I wish I knew, lol. Cheers 🍻
Great video! Some dealers like you said would not want this video to be published for everyone to see. But quite opposite this video makes me want to buy from Motor Coach Store or get service on my coach from them. Anyone with a diesel engine after seeing this should feel good about this company.
Great video, very informative. I'm so glad I'm still pre def area though. I still get caught up looking at the newer models, but still remaining content.
That’s why I’m sticking to gas from now on. If you are on a 2 week vacation and it goes bad, enjoy sitting at Cummins on the freeway for 1 of you two weeks. I know, I lived diesel emissions with a 2009 Cat C9 with emissions crap. Vacations were spent at a heavy truck dealer. I’m done. Yes a gas motor can break too but usually I can fix quickly. You have to have special computers and software to fix the diesel.
I had the DEF sensor failure in mid-June. The DEF sensor is actually $350. The chassis was still under warranty so my cost was $0. My coach didn’t derate which is really rare. Not sure why but I’m glad it didn’t because I was 100 miles from the nearest Cummins service center. The EPA needs to allow Cummins to eliminate the “derate” function from their software until a reliable DEF sensor can be developed. Derating an engine can be dangerous particularly like in our situation we were on a major interstate but in the middle of nowhere.
We had 5 Duramax chevy dullys for work and parts chasing 1yr in and we had to spend around 5 thousand and the dpf isn't covered by warranty and the dpf tanks have a heater that goes bad regularly we traded them in for dodges and 7 yrs later the truck's just keep on running, you can't beat a Cummins
A few thousand for no more than 4.5 hours of mechanic time and I doubt the parts cost more than $500. It seems to me a little steep, someone would probably be capitalizing off of this issue that you have no choice but to fix.
@@calebbyers I agree with you, like a lot of people have said on here, buy a Pre Def MotorCoach. These new MotorCoach's and Vehicle's are built to drain the money out of people's pocket's.
@@franklogan494 or delete the def system out of a newer coach. Older diesel engines are the best but sometimes newer features and technology above the chassis are nice to have.
I see this A LOT. Actually, I see a lot of people drive them beyond de-rate and they "try to make it back" but they will eventually not run at all. If you ignore de-rate, they shut down.
With all accreditation do it used to be to be a diesel mechanic you had to be able to spin wrenches but now you need to be a computer and electronic genius. Scan tools and EDM devices become the bulk of your toolbox. Thomyt
This guy cracks me up. He says, issues will happen, just deal with it. Easy for him to say. What is you are in the middle of nowhere and this happens and costs thousands of dollars to fix. Just Deal with it. This DEF should be completely redesigned by whoever is creating this DEF. Come on, you know it will fail and nobody is working on a fix?
Happened to me while driving a semi truck. Don’t like it. Not going to change it as he said you are going to have to deal with it. Can’t buy old stuff forever.
Our government... one more thing to have to deal with. I'll be buying a pre-def coach. Might be a good idea to do a DYI video on how to change the sensor and fill us in on whether we can download an app that'll let us program the ECU
@@RVingwithAndrewSteele, that's what I expected actually, just as closed a system as many autos/trucks/tractors, etc. I viewed a couple videos after yours to learn a bit more about the cost and problems with DEF, and I found that most def head sensor mfgrs won't ship parts, especially to CA. This is really costly and troublesome for coach owners. Anyway, keep up the good work. (Do more o n DEF)
❤ When it goes in limp mode, I have heard what causes it is when coming off the highway hot to get fuel and turning the engine off as soon as you stop. You should let it idle for a few minutes. Big trucks have a re-gen button as an over ride.
with this issue will it throw a code. i have having a issue with my new 24 dynamax 6.7 . 2000 miles on it. all of a sudden no get up and go. will get to speed. but not like day i got her
My understanding is that each motor manufacturer is using the Cummins designed DEF system. Def was in Europe first but got banned, because it is not good for the environment or atmosphere. California brought it to North America and I understand that they are trying to figure out how to get rid of the Def sytem without getting their butts sewed off
What causes them to fail? Is it running with low DEF or just 'time' , or poor quality electronics, power spikes to that system? What? Or is it caused by drag-racing them off a dead stop? (just kidding)
mostly stale def fluid. DEF fluid that sits for months goes bad. Some guys will just use enough to get them through if they know the Coach will sit for a few months in storage. Don't know if you can drain the DEF out but that would be something that would be nice.
DEF is considered the enemy of ALL diesel Engines no matter the engine nor vehicle manufacturer. That's why pre emissions engine semi trucks and pickups are ask for commanding prices. That's the major reason why CAT got out of supplying big rig manufacturers with engines and decided to buy ElectroMotive locomotives from GM. The CAT dealers will still work on truck and TV engines.
A couple thousand bucks. Yeah, I have that stuffed in my in my sock. Really! A couple thousand dollars. In this new economy, the consumer is getting the shaft. I will be doing a stealth delete kit. screw the EPA!
my question is, if the DEF head is known to short out (go bad) why doesn't the manufacturer cover the cost of replacement. Screw 5 years it should be 100,000 miles regardless of age. As an ASE master truck tech, I'm going to find a workaround. What a bunch of bad engineering shit.
"just roll with it and fix it as things come". That attitude pisses me off! He obviously doesn't own one. Rule of thumb. If your high-dollar coach costs 250,000 dollars or more. Put 30,000 dollars in the bank to keep it running for 8 years. I sold my house and bought one so I could travel thinking, "It will last me ten years". Wrong! I'm about to go bankrupt (A 2018 Newmar 4311 wheelchair-accessible coach). Changed both ACs twice (Dometic Penguins). Two slidout motors quit (and I rarely use them). Black and grey Tank Sensor issues. So disappointed! The Freightliner chassis seems okay except for the EPA DEF crap. and the Cummins is always a good bet. And BTW, I forgot more than these guys know. My background is - ASE master truck tech, Aircraft maintenance tech - learjet, challenger, Raytheon King Air, BAE Hawker, and Piper Cheyenne 3A. So I know my stuff and we consumers need to demand better-engineered equipment for the money. Once they got your money, you're nobody! Can't even get my dealer to call me back, with a warranty.
Don't blame the government. Blame the engineers who design these systems. On automobiles the pollution control systems are warranted for 2 to 8 years dependent upon which parts fail. Major components are covered for 8 years BTW. DEF reduces the amount of pollutants in the air that is a fact and dirty diesels are a huge contributor.
I built a DEF transloading facility in Canada we received DEF in rail cars unloaded it and packaged it in drums and totes. Out of all the engine manufacturers I believe Volvo has the least issues. That’s because it was in use many years earlier in European trucks.
I've seen Volvo powered motorcoach busses, I've always thought it would be cool to have a Volvo powered motorhomes as Europe built vehicles are usally more reliable in general.
Yep...DEF...Overpriced urine...I'll keep my 05 C13 Cat pre-def...Nothing to fix...Nothing to trick...There is enough to stay on top of...This is just more stuff to worry about...Thanks Andrew for the videos...I appreciate them so much...
Thanks for highlighting this issue. Please contact Cummins and the other engine manufacturers and ask them to comment. They should give us the option to ignore the sensor so that we can get home and fix it properly. This is allowed for ambulances and fire fighting trucks, why not us
Chong (sp?) the diesel tech, admire techs who become experts in their field. He is someone to keep happy on the payroll. Also someone I wish I knew, lol. Cheers 🍻
Andrew I really respect your transparency, and you keeping it real with your audience 💯💯💯
That’s what I like about you Andrew you tell it the way it is. No flowers and puppy dogs just real info!
This is why I'll always stick with a Pre DEF coach!
Great video! Some dealers like you said would not want this video to be published for everyone to see. But quite opposite this video makes me want to buy from Motor Coach Store or get service on my coach from them. Anyone with a diesel engine after seeing this should feel good about this company.
This is not mhsrv, this is the Motorcoach Store
My '87 NEWMAR Dutch star is Pre def and I love it !!8.3 Cummins ! turned up from 300hp to 425 for $100 . Love it!!!
Great video, very informative. I'm so glad I'm still pre def area though. I still get caught up looking at the newer models, but still remaining content.
That’s why I’m sticking to gas from now on. If you are on a 2 week vacation and it goes bad, enjoy sitting at Cummins on the freeway for 1 of you two weeks. I know, I lived diesel emissions with a 2009 Cat C9 with emissions crap. Vacations were spent at a heavy truck dealer. I’m done. Yes a gas motor can break too but usually I can fix quickly. You have to have special computers and software to fix the diesel.
What I love about Expets is that their own humble to eath, this guy sounds and look nice guy.
I had the DEF sensor failure in mid-June. The DEF sensor is actually $350. The chassis was still under warranty so my cost was $0. My coach didn’t derate which is really rare. Not sure why but I’m glad it didn’t because I was 100 miles from the nearest Cummins service center. The EPA needs to allow Cummins to eliminate the “derate” function from their software until a reliable DEF sensor can be developed. Derating an engine can be dangerous particularly like in our situation we were on a major interstate but in the middle of nowhere.
We had 5 Duramax chevy dullys for work and parts chasing 1yr in and we had to spend around 5 thousand and the dpf isn't covered by warranty and the dpf tanks have a heater that goes bad regularly we traded them in for dodges and 7 yrs later the truck's just keep on running, you can't beat a Cummins
dpf or DEF?
Another great video, thanks Andrew!
ANDREW UNDE SANT MASINILE UNDE ESTE BEN CA VREAU SAL BAG LA PUSCARIE
Nice share Andrew!!!!
Congratulations and give a TIP!
Great to see, an know, a little bit of wisdom can go a long way. Thks bro
Nice honest review- and seems like a trustworthy dealer 🍻
Great video Andrew!! Brad say's don't worry about it, just throw a few thousand at it. I guess if you own one of these money grow's on tree's.
A few thousand for no more than 4.5 hours of mechanic time and I doubt the parts cost more than $500. It seems to me a little steep, someone would probably be capitalizing off of this issue that you have no choice but to fix.
@@calebbyers I agree with you, like a lot of people have said on here, buy a Pre Def MotorCoach. These new MotorCoach's and Vehicle's are built to drain the money out of people's pocket's.
@@franklogan494 or delete the def system out of a newer coach. Older diesel engines are the best but sometimes newer features and technology above the chassis are nice to have.
@@calebbyers You are right, it would be pretty hard to argue against that Caleb.
Great honest, informative post Mr Andrew....keep'em comin'
Another well done Brad funded infomercial. Great job Andrew!
DA AXTEPT SA PRIMESC MASINILE
I see this A LOT. Actually, I see a lot of people drive them beyond de-rate and they "try to make it back" but they will eventually not run at all. If you ignore de-rate, they shut down.
The hell of it is there are no DEF heads available for repairs.
I'm doing a delete and screw them.
One more spare part to have on hand lol!
With all accreditation do it used to be to be a diesel mechanic you had to be able to spin wrenches but now you need to be a computer and electronic genius. Scan tools and EDM devices become the bulk of your toolbox. Thomyt
This guy cracks me up. He says, issues will happen, just deal with it. Easy for him to say. What is you are in the middle of nowhere and this happens and costs thousands of dollars to fix. Just Deal with it. This DEF should be completely redesigned by whoever is creating this DEF. Come on, you know it will fail and nobody is working on a fix?
It's no secret this RV game is not for the weak hearted or those those with shallow bank accounts.
Happened to me while driving a semi truck. Don’t like it. Not going to change it as he said you are going to have to deal with it. Can’t buy old stuff forever.
The solution...buy a pre DEF Motorcoach...rolling with the oldies but goodies
Awesome INFO thanks for sharing 👏👏
I’ve had that go bad in my Newell.
Our government... one more thing to have to deal with. I'll be buying a pre-def coach. Might be a good idea to do a DYI video on how to change the sensor and fill us in on whether we can download an app that'll let us program the ECU
Programming has to be cone through cummins
@@RVingwithAndrewSteele, that's what I expected actually, just as closed a system as many autos/trucks/tractors, etc. I viewed a couple videos after yours to learn a bit more about the cost and problems with DEF, and I found that most def head sensor mfgrs won't ship parts, especially to CA. This is really costly and troublesome for coach owners. Anyway, keep up the good work. (Do more o n DEF)
❤ When it goes in limp mode, I have heard what causes it is when coming off the highway hot to get fuel and turning the engine off as soon as you stop. You should let it idle for a few minutes. Big trucks have a re-gen button as an over ride.
with this issue will it throw a code. i have having a issue with my new 24 dynamax 6.7 . 2000 miles on it. all of a sudden no get up and go. will get to speed. but not like day i got her
Roving reporter work excellent info
My understanding is that each motor manufacturer is using the Cummins designed DEF system. Def was in Europe first but got banned, because it is not good for the environment or atmosphere. California brought it to North America and I understand that they are trying to figure out how to get rid of the Def sytem without getting their butts sewed off
Thanks for the heads up. What was the code it threw?
Very neat educational...if you want a newer coach......c'est la vie. Great video.
is def like a bong?
Unfortunately, the Kelly Johnsons are no more.
As a consumer, I feel like being held captive by a South American rebel cartel. Pay the ransom!
Brett is the man
How can I reach the mobile r v repairman you use, I am getting a new Tiffin r v and want to have that on case,thanks.
I bet if a regular customer came in with the same problem it wouldn't get fixed as quick.
Those Are Amazing RV
And then dealerships are laughing all the way to the bank.
What was the engine code?
What causes them to fail?
Is it running with low DEF or just 'time' , or poor quality electronics, power spikes to that system? What?
Or is it caused by drag-racing them off a dead stop? (just kidding)
mostly stale def fluid. DEF fluid that sits for months goes bad. Some guys will just use enough to get them through if they know the Coach will sit for a few months in storage. Don't know if you can drain the DEF out but that would be something that would be nice.
When that happens just disconnect the speed sensor and you could drive home as fast as you want
That doesn’t work
Agree! Please don’t give out this false information without researching it first.
You don't know what you are talking about!
Pre DEF ONLY for me!
Gubmt doin what they do!
DEF is considered the enemy of ALL diesel Engines no matter the engine nor vehicle manufacturer. That's why pre emissions engine semi trucks and pickups are ask for commanding prices. That's the major reason why CAT got out of supplying big rig manufacturers with engines and decided to buy ElectroMotive locomotives from GM. The CAT dealers will still work on truck and TV engines.
A couple thousand bucks. Yeah, I have that stuffed in my in my sock. Really! A couple thousand dollars. In this new economy, the consumer is getting the shaft. I will be doing a stealth delete kit. screw the EPA!
my question is, if the DEF head is known to short out (go bad) why doesn't the manufacturer cover the cost of replacement. Screw 5 years it should be 100,000 miles regardless of age. As an ASE master truck tech, I'm going to find a workaround. What a bunch of bad engineering shit.
LOL Just a couple thousand bucks
No no no no no. I no want DEF. I got enough to keep the Cummins moving. One fell from the sky, maybe 🤔
And this is why I hate electronicized vehicles. The less electronics, the less shit to go wrong.
DEF really sucks…several thousands of dollars involved!!!
Don’t go into LIMP MODE in the bedroom
😂😂
LMAO
"just roll with it and fix it as things come". That attitude pisses me off! He obviously doesn't own one. Rule of thumb. If your high-dollar coach costs 250,000 dollars or more. Put 30,000 dollars in the bank to keep it running for 8 years. I sold my house and bought one so I could travel thinking, "It will last me ten years". Wrong! I'm about to go bankrupt (A 2018 Newmar 4311 wheelchair-accessible coach). Changed both ACs twice (Dometic Penguins). Two slidout motors quit (and I rarely use them). Black and grey Tank Sensor issues. So disappointed! The Freightliner chassis seems okay except for the EPA DEF crap. and the Cummins is always a good bet. And BTW, I forgot more than these guys know. My background is - ASE master truck tech, Aircraft maintenance tech - learjet, challenger, Raytheon King Air, BAE Hawker, and Piper Cheyenne 3A. So I know my stuff and we consumers need to demand better-engineered equipment for the money. Once they got your money, you're nobody! Can't even get my dealer to call me back, with a warranty.
Just a couple thousand bucks…
It's a problem on All diesel motors. Def is nothing but a pain.
This right here is what makes newer diesels so unreliable.
🤣 LMAO, really!!!
What a JOKE, spend THOUSANDS on a Rig like that and it does this shit? DEF is an absolute joke.
As per usual, brad is one cocky dude. 🤦🏻♂️
Ame khalid whalcam bak
My Mercedes sprinter is in limp mode 3 times a year. its a god awful system. just a money grab.
Sorry for the rant but this crap pisses me off. I paid more than a quarter mill for this piece of crap and it is nickel and dimeing me to death..
I will find a workaround and cheat.
UNDE SANT MASINILE ANDREW LEA VANDUT BEEN PUN POLITIA PE RL ACUMA .
#delete
Too bad so many guys are getting hit with big fines for performing the delete. Many big RUclipsrs have been hit.
@@RVingwithAndrewSteele loose loops sink ships.....And I've traded deleted units in and they never even ask.
But I get it.
CovidImages need to be invested more than half19
Don't blame the government. Blame the engineers who design these systems. On automobiles the pollution control systems are warranted for 2 to 8 years dependent upon which parts fail. Major components are covered for 8 years BTW. DEF reduces the amount of pollutants in the air that is a fact and dirty diesels are a huge contributor.
Don't think you understand Diesel technology