Blaming "the gays" for surrogacy
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- Опубликовано: 14 дек 2023
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#shanedawson #surrogacy #parishilton 
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Let’s all just take a moment to remind ourselves that “parent influencers” are not representative of your average loving parents and never will be.
Kid is perpetually online.
@@bannedmann4469 She's criticizing the outrage being only targeted to gay surrogates. There is little to no outrage if you don't tell anybody...
Average parents are loving?
Only in the first two minutes of the video, you said "people want cute defenseless babies, not children" and that is SO DAMN TRUE and no one wants to admit it
I'd frame it more as - many people want to get as close to being biological parents as possible when conceiving, carrying, and birthing biological children isn't possible for them for whatever reason. If it's two women, more than likely one of the women will likely use an egg from either of the women with the sperm of someone who matches the race of the other woman. If it's two men, they'll use sperm from one of the men and the egg from someone whose race matches the race of the other man (if they're of a different race). If it's a man and woman and the "blocker" is being able to carry and birth the child, then they'll use their sperm and egg and the gestational carrier as a body to grow their biological child. Then the child is handed over right after birth and raised as one would be if birthed by their biological mother.
What all the examples have in common is that the goal is the get as close as possible to how a man and woman without fertility issues would conceive, carry, birth, and start raising a kid.
Yes, there are women who want to use a gestational career to grow and birth their babies because they're beautiful celebrities or whatever, but these women are *vanishingly* rare to the point that it's hardly worth discussing on a societal level beyond celebrity gossip.
@@razmiddle9410 I think you may have replied to the wrong comment, friend!
They want "cute babies to show off" Untill they have to feed them
Bathe
Hear screaming
Snot cuz sick
Poop and destroyed stuff
Cannot sleep cuz of them
The pay for existing
And then them growing up and being a person not a doll
@@gabriella19452 My response was to your comment that people don't want children, they only want babies. I don't think that's true - instead, it's that people are use surrogates and gestational careers are specifically looking to replicate the experience of biological parenthood as possible. That's why they're going through all this trouble and expense rather than adopting.
@@razmiddle9410 ah, well I wasn't really referring to surrogacy specifically- I was quoting what Kidology was saying around the first minute, that most people who choose to have kids (in whatever way they concieve it) want a baby in particular, not the human it will grow into. Ive seen it irl many times- once that baby becomes a child who can express its own opinions and develops personhood, a lot of parents lose interest or start to resent that the kid isn't a perfect little "mini me" and they can't dress it up and make it do exactly what they want, like a pet or doll.
It terrifies me to no end to think that someone with as well of a documented past as one of Shane Dawson, specifically being predatory and sxually inappropriate towards minors, negligent towards pets and agressive towards his friends, can get a surrogate and have two children given to him by the agency that arranged this. And his past is plastered all over the internet. To think of all the creeps that don’t have an online portfolio of their behavior patterns and are able to have surrogates …
biological males usually make conections with others through being sexual as well we are biologically that why and is a language which only biological boys males understand feel
It's just like people having biological kids. Anyone can do it, there's no regulation. The creeps and abusers of the world will pop out babies left right and centre, but if someone doesn't want to be a parent, they will often be shamed for it.
@@natasham4184 individuality
@@natasham4184 At the very least there is a little bit of a barrier to entry with first needing to find someone of the opposite sex who will willingly have sex with you to have children in the first place.
Sounds like any man
I’ve worked as a nanny, I’ve always loved children & I’m very good with them so it felt like a fitting job to me. One of the saddest realisations I’ve had while working as a nanny is how much people dislike children, including parents. People want babies/toddlers & once those kids turn 6 & begin having a personality of their own, the emotional & sometimes physical neglect began. It’s gut wrenching. I’ve taken care of children that were so deprived of affection it hurt. Some of these children at very young ages realised that they weren’t going to get that affection from their parents but they got it from me so they became very attached. Every time I had to stop taking care of them because I had to study or switch jobs the children & I would cry because there goes the person they get some affection from. It’s sad.
Sure, but that isn’t anywhere near close to “everyone” or “people”. Kid has got to stop doing that..
@@bannedmann4469me as a adult homosexual biological male without afection i start becoming bad harmful , afection relax me
@@bannedmann4469 💯 agree with you.
This made me angry
@@bannedmann4469 obviously no one is implying that every single human being on the planet hates children & if that’s what you got from the video then you either lack comprehension skills or you have somewhat of a guilty conscience.
I was literally having this exact conversation a few days ago. People are more 'concerned' about gay couples doing this and less about the fact that the elite rich /celebrities are shirking the risk of maiming or death onto poor women in countries with little to no regulation. Women's bodies, pregnancy, and child birth, and all the dangers included are being COMMODIFIED and that should absolutely make people upset.
I mean, this is the only conversation I hear in my circles, I'm not quite sure who people are hanging out with that the main contention is about just gay man using surrogacy. The horrors of surrogacy are obvious, you're purposefully creating a child that will be torn away from their mother despite the fact that children need to be with their mother for the first 3 years of life. Whoever the parents buying the child are doesn't matter. Any adult that pays into the ART industry is disgusting in my eyes.
Why would you put concerned in quotes? It is concerning. Gays abuse children at a massively increased rate compared to straight people. It's fun to pretend to care about something when it doesn't impact your social standing, I guess? Kind of pathetic hypocrisy on your end.
It’s more because Shane Dawson has admitted several times being sexually attracted to children more than the fact of him being gay I believe.
@@Devi_Seonait can easily be both
@@Devi_Seona Shane Dawson is not even gay, his bisexual
I remember watching a vice documentary about surrogacy in a poor country. Almost all the women that they talked to were doing this because they didn’t have enough money and had to keep it a secret because surrogacy was highly frowned upon in their country; a woman who was interviewed talked about how transactional it was and one thing she would have liked was to have met the parents who she was going to give a child to.
That is heartbreaking
Thank you for sharing. I will look into that when done with this video. I love vice
I'm not going to get into the moral ethics of surrogacy, but I do feel if you cannot be deemed eligible for adoption, you shouldn't be able to pay a surrogate either.
All children deserve good parents, not all "parents" deserve children.
Even if the adoption process discriminates against people, like gay people or people with aspergers etc?
@@catherinedufresne3543YES, adoption people do background checks and if somebody failed background checks because of their pdf file past 🤢 they should be having kids 🤷♀️
@@talkingtochaprithat’s not at all what this person asked
If a gay couple cannot make a joint decision to ask for a surrogate mother without government regulation then why do we permit straight couples to reproduce without government permission?
@@catherinedufresne3543 I can't answer that. It depends where you live in the world? In the US, there are many states that allow same-sex adoption. There are many progressive European countries that allow it. I'm talking about background checks. Red flags that would stop a person(s) from adopting.
That picture of Paris in a hospital bed reminded me of something straight out of Handmaid's Tale.
Yeah the Wife squeeling 'it hurts' and pretending to give birth.
I think people are using this particular situation to say why gays shouldn’t have kids. People are using Shane to generalize gays as pdfs. He said babies are exually attractive and went into detail about relieving himself on one. Then his past actions with small children all the way up to teens is abhorrent. I don’t think we can compare Shane to anyone else because of his past actions.
💯!
That's pure misinformation wtf, the *joke* was about a cat. I don't like Shane but you don't get to throw arround false claims of pdfilia like that because they affect REAL VICTIMS
Yes!
I don’t think that was a baby i think that was a cat
I mean that’s not better it’s just different
The Paris Hilton in a hospital bed part reminds me so much of the Handmaids Tale (the series anyway). I can not even explain how I feel about it. Worse than disappointment, I truly have no words...
I had the exact same thought. If you're going to be in the same hospital as the surrogate/bio mom you'd better be there to wait on her hand and foot, not to play dress up!
Can you talk me about this please? I don't know what happened
@@annamidkiff2460surrogate isn't the bio mom, two different things. I believe Paris used a surrogate due to violent vaginal trauma but I still don't believe using surrogates can ever be ethical same with sex work.
@@QTpatootie95violent vaginal trauma?
Wasn’t Shane Dawson accused of p3dophilia and b3stiality??
I honestly feel nervous for those twin boys growing up with him as a father- surrogacy aside….
Its funny how adoptions /governent has 0 issues giving kids to pdfiles or monsters
But doesent allow good infertile people.... .. Make it make sense
That’s the part that people refuse to talk about for fear of being called homophobic…the surrogacy is bad enough, but then, having two men, especially with that kind of reputation/past raising children, it’s honestly frightening.
If only people could separate bad actions from sexualities @@Vnm2207
Yup, not just the homophobia she claims..
Bu that isnt what ppeople go up about, like why focus on 2 dads.
And if people equite gay with being pdf, that would be homophobic.
As an orphan who was adopted at 5 days old. I wish these people would stop talking about things that aren't an issue. Let people adopt they'd be better off that way.
the thing that bothers me is the aestheticisation and glorification of the feminine process of pregnancy and labour, by often gay men in surrogacy process. things like proclaiming 'we are pregnant' - and not referreing to the surrogate woman in the biological process of pregnancy, doing gender reveal/baby showers in the absence of any growing unborn child (many keep a strict professional relationship with the surrogate, leading to their exclusion to these events - which begs the question for their necessity in the first place), the man climbing into the hospital bed disheveled and holding the newborn, cosplaying as someone who has just undergone the manual labor process etc. All distasteful and lacking tact, respect and decency to women and the process of life-giving/rearing that one gender holds a monopoly on.
It doesn’t offend me particularly, but it offends me in the name of all the women who have birthed humanity only to be mocked by gay men. I think that if you can’t conceive a baby in the natural sex process, you shouldn’t be able to reap what that act brings. Making pregnancy and women’s gift to be able to birth the next generation of humans into a stale process of egg and sperm and laboratory is wrong. Because even if conceived in a lab, a woman has to birth the child. We do not have artificial wombs. If you don’t like women, or find them gross or disgusting, you shouldn’t be able to have children. Because it inherently involves a female. Wanting what pregnancy brings without the female is crazy and irresponsible.
I was friends with a gay couple who adopted a baby from a teen mother. We wanted to give some gifts to the birth mother and we were told that wasn’t allowed. There were a lot of legal protections around the adoption process; the surrogacy contracts sound similar.
you do know pregnancy isn’t exclusively feminine? some trans men can get pregnant. it’s yall glorifying pregnant by treating it like some sort of feminine goddess shit. you don’t know other people’s lives
@@emiliabolsasdepends on the type of adoption. Sounds like it may have been a closed adoption
@@PossibleBatbro what are you on about
I find surrogacy so strange and just unnecessary. There are so many unwanted children out there, due to tragically losing their parents or them simply not wanting them and abandoning them. If you really want children and a family, why not adopt one? If you can’t because they won’t let you, you shouldn’t have access to a surrogate either. Babies are not accessories. They are people that are going to grow into adults and be a LIFE LONG commitment.
Adoption has dramatically dropped due due to IVF surrogacy
Because people want a biological connection to their child. This is a natural, biological instinct that most people have. It’s not wrong to want a biological child. I agree that those who are denied adoption (for good reasons) should not be eligible for surrogacy either.
Just because someone obtains their child through surrogacy, rather than adoption, doesn’t mean they want accessories. There are plenty of amazing parents who are devoted to the well-being of their children and had them through surrogacy.
@@merve8461 Buying babies is morally wrong. Exploiting the financial hardship of women is wrong. Surrogate babies have been abandoned with their birth mother for disability or other reasons.
It’s sucks to be infertile but people aren’t entitled to children. Even when it comes to adoption. It’s not about what wannabe parents want but what’s best for the child
@@AliciatheCho I disagree with your language. Can I ask why you think surrogacy is about “buying babies”? Even if there are well-regulated surrogacy agencies that protect the legal rights of all involved parties?
Not all women who become surrogates are in financial hardship. Many of those women don’t need to become surrogate, as there are other financial avenues for them.
Again, it’s a shame that it happened but that doesn’t represent the common surrogacy experience. It does suck to be infertile, and it’s easy to say that no one is “entitled” to children. It’s true in principle, but does not mean that the emotional need for children should be minimized. Many people derive purpose and fulfillment from children and that’s not a bad thing.
We can talk about what’s wrong with surrogacy, without pretending that is inherently bad.
@@merve8461 What woman is getting pregnant for just to hand a baby over to a couple/individual for free? Just he goodness of her heart?
Babies need their mother. Deliberately creating a child with intent to deprive its mother is wrong. It’s deeply selfish.
No offense but you’re a stranger on internet and I’m not inclined to spend all Sunday trying to explain how doing is wrong and creates trauma for the child. Babies don’t remember that moment consciously but their body remembers. You almost certainly don’t understand how the pregnancy changes not only a woman’s but her mind. A mother is not interchangeable with just anybody.
You are free to do your own reach as to why it’s is wrong. Moreover, other problems that comes from buying buys and deliberately separating them from their mother.
I just REALLY hate the idea of Shane fucking Dawson specifically becoming a parent. I can already foresee many far right talking heads digging up dirt on him, and using his bad behavior as evidence that no gay couples should have kids. It makes me mad even thinking about it.
I personally think that surrogacy as an option for gay couples is fine, or at least should be treated the same as surrogacy for a straight couple.
I totally agree. He's fucking ghoulish and I can forsee everything you say happening😔
I'm 100% against Paris Hilton using a surrogate, too!
Same. I think she robbed her fans of some "leaked" preggo action 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I want to adopt when I get married (I am gay btw) but tbh I think there's a lot of unadopted kids who need homes. So I kinda don't wanna do surrogacy, but I think it's just my outlook and not an objective thing.
The homophobia in this comment section is insane. And the fact that it's in the name of feminism is a real problem.
Homophobia has been a staple of feminism for a long time. Not that I'm against feminism completely, but this is true. Gay men get treated like trash for being gay and wanting to experience fatherhood, and lesbians get constantly erased by people who think our sexuality is "fluid" and that we don't really exist, so of course they see us as capable of having a family "the natural way" and approve of what they see as "lesbian mums". If you step outside of their expectations, you're out.
The mask is falling off. Feminism has never been about equality between the sexes.
AFAIK, the reason people are disgusted that Shane Dawson, in particular, is around any child, is because he has made a lot of pedophile jokes, looked at child porn, and made minors show him their naked bodies. Has very little to do with his sexuality, and a whole lot to do with him not being safe around children.
HUH😨
That has everything to do with his sexuality. Most pedos are gay men.
Yeah exactly 💯 like this would be a great vid if there was a different comparison. Because it's literally the things that Shane has said out of his own mouth that is beyond disgusting!
Like you say, Shane shouldn't be around *any children* , not cos he's gay- But because he frankly has a twisted mind, the bestthat can't be trusted!
But otherwise the takes on the vid we're very interesting.
It's a shame about using Shane as an example, without knowing/mentioning the relevant history. Because that's what 99% of the hate was about.
For me, seeing it not brought up was very distracting.
But hey I like watching stuff, even if it doesn't align with my way off thinking completely. It's always great to hear a range of views and opinions on different topics!!❤
Men who aren't present in their children's lives are encouraging other straight men to have kids, but are very concerned about kids with 2 dads because they won't get any parental love?! So much for wanting to protect kids and do what's best for them
No, because gays cannot raise healthy children. The situation is effed from the start. That and they are all abuse victims and most of them abuse others.
i don't think the payment from surrogacy would even cover half of what you said. the problem with the consent argument is that money is a form of coercive control, so when it's present "consent" becomes muddled. If the money were not a factor, would people be doing this? I doubt it.
Getting a commercial surrogate in the US is like $150k+. Money affects a lot of the decisions you make in your life. Would you keep doing the same job or buy the same set of goods and services if money were not a factor? Are you exerting corrosive control over the people you pay goods and services for? Would you consider your employer to be exerting corrosive control over you?
One of my concerns is about postpartum. I feel like there’s probably a lot of women that feel empty after giving up the baby. They carry a baby full term and then went home with no baby, plus all the crazy hormones that your body is producing to feed and connect with the baby. I feel like a lot of these women are a mess after and I hope the parents paying these women for the baby help them through it at least financially.
Yeah like the cheapest you can get a surrogate is like $40-50k in Africa. In a developed country you’re talking like $150k+. The women are getting paid multiple years worth of income, so they are definitely being helped financially.
It shocks me when, all too often, someone says “I hate children” when it’s completely taboo to say that about any other social group. It’s either a good thing and demonstrates someone is preventing themselves to reproduce or when said child is born, it demonstrates a worrying level of cognitive dissonance.
People hate on Chelsea Handler for being proudly child-free, but due says she would not be a good mom and therefore will not have kids. I respect the hell out of that!! We need more women like her that will admit when they would not be good mothers and therefore refrain from having children they will hate.
@@youtubeposter3814 Completely agree, I really don't know why people are concerned with convincing others who say they don't want kids to consider it. I think some think they're going to help someone who is on the fence not miss out on one of the greatest things you can experience as a human being, but if you end up childless at 50 and regret that, that's on you. The joys of having children are apparent as far as I'm concerned. If some people see that and go "nah, not for me," so be it.
@@youtubeposter3814Being proud to be an evolutionary failure is just gross. Your respect for her is also gross. You're all gross. Get off the internet. Don't have kids. Don't leave your house. Just leave the normal people in peace.
@@MB-yl9hm
It's worse to have children you don't want or like rather than wish you had children
When I think about gay surrogacy in particular, I wonder, why not just adopt? I mean it not just to give a home and protection to existing children, but also to embrace unique position of queer life.
Queer people have to form familial bonds outside of blood. For one, most queer couples are the same sex; they choose to co-habitate and love each other knowing they cannot reproduce. Also, we will encounter people who have been estranged from their biological families -- or be those estranged people ourselves. That community spirit helped people survive the AIDS crisis. If non-blood relations can be cared for, protected, and valued more than some people regard their blood relations, adoption should be a consideration.
Most people have a natural desire to produce offspring. From my own experience, I believe that people who don't have it -- like myself -- actually, slightly do, in the sense that we desire to care for things and leave legacies. (And we're also unfairly biased towards hot people. Sorry.) I only know enough about evolutionary biology to know that 'helper in the nest' explanations for homosexuality's endurance amongst multiple species is contested. But if you find meaning in theorising about those matters and believing you live in accordance with nature, adoption is a very worthy consideration.
I'll come back to it because it is important: there are actual children who exist right now, who lack parents, who would be happy to have a home. Being an adoptive parent is difficult and involves great sacrifice -- but so does biological parenthood; there is no guarantee that one will survive the hardships of pregnancy. Surrogacy just displaces the risk.
If a close friend offered to carry a child for me, I would be honoured by the love that expresses but still decline. Asking that of a stranger, and one who may not be able to make responsible choices because of economic exploitation or such, is terrifying.
Revisiting this after thinking about it.
A friend volunteering to be a surrogate for men who could not individually pass as straight could have been an effective strategy in areas with bigoted adoption policies. None of these things apply to Shane and Ryan, who really don't deserve anyone looking up to them, not least two children.
You've put it perfectly!
If its REALLY about raising and caring for a child then ADOPT a child that needs help that ALREADY EXISTS.
At the very least its suspicious to me to not even LIKE women and then be willing to buy /rent one and control her eating, physical, medical, and recreational habits for the next 9 months.
Its giving mysogyny, its giving handmaids tale, and thats not an industry i can support.
Because bodily autonomy is a thing?
I agree about adoption in general, but also if queer people who are biologically capable of reproducing want to do so? Frankly, it’s not anyone’s concern. Much the same are people who choose to be childfree isn’t anyone else’s business. Some people want biological kids. I say this as a person who was adopted by my stepdad.
Also: it’s cheaper and easier in most cases to have biological kids if you’re a lesbian or a trans guy. Adoption costs money and takes a lot of time. Why would I spend thousands of dollars to become a parent when I have functional reproductive organs, and going a sperm bank is way cheaper (in the US, I can’t speak for elsewhere) than adopting a baby.
@@teddiiursulaThis is *ridiculous*
It’s baffling to see people digging for malicious intentions to otherwise reasonable actions.
Gay men, like others, want biological children. Thus, a woman is needed. They’re not going to have sex or be in a relationship, so the fact that they’re gay and haven’t been with women is irrelevant.
Gay men only want to make sure that their children are okay. That’s not a malicious thing. And I hardly believe that the level of control is excessive, to the point where you bring up Handmaid’s Tale. The woman herself will likely be controlling her own diet and I imagine that conversations will be had.
I can’t believe I have to explain this.
As a person who's never found babies cute, but rather shit-dispensing little rasin-creatures, and who used to work as a teacher; teens are way doper. Humans don't get truly interesting until they hit 13ish and the most appealing part of having children imo is seeing them grow into their own individuals, showing them the world and watching them spin as they try to figure stuff out.
When I had my son, my first thought was, "can't wait until he's old enough to have opinions on movies or go out for drinks."
People like you interest me for many reasons, I've just been going through the comments informing people that Shane is a predator, I've found many interesting takes doing this. This is one of them. Mainly because this is something I thought in middle school, that little kids aren't interesting and don't have much to offer etc.
Though, it's amazing how quickly that changed with experience and self awareness. I will say, children definitely pick up on the attitudes that adults have towards them consciously and subconsciously. Though you may not hear about until years later if at all. As a older teenager I honestly think we're pretty lame for the most part, watching a teenager maybe fun, but actually being one is mix of making peace with your fading childhood while struggling to become an adult. Which is way harder if you didn't get a chance to be a kid.
I think you're a bit too pessimistic about parents.
My parents weren't perfect, but I have/had a very good relationship with them. I know now, as an adult, that they were human and made mistakes raising me, but I do not have a feeling that they had me in order to have a cute baby for a while, but because they wanted to have a family, and that they love/d me genuinely. My mother passed, but my relationship with my father is now one of the most, if not the most, important and deep relationship I have.
When I think about having kids, I don't think about babies, but I think of there being an entire new human being in my life I will be responsible for.
Thank you! Her saying that about ALL parents was rash.
Right? My parents for example didnt even like the infant stage, and my dad said we only got fun after we were two years.
They definitely made sure from an early stage we could be independent but they loved teaching us
@@cicooooooo a lot of parents don’t like the infant stage. I have three kids and always look at that first year as a slog. Once they hit 18 months is when the fun starts.
Strangely, most people have watched The Handmaid's Tale. Now we get to live it for real.
The handmaid's tale isnt a religious far away reality. It is Americans minding their own business.
3:30 That's a very, very good point. I'm reminded of Fantine from Les Misérables. It's not an exact comparison by any means, but it's horrifying that anyone would have to sell their own body parts to make end's meet.
Paying for surrogacy is illegal where I live. The wider issue is that people feel entitled to have children, especially biological children, wether they can or not or are up to the task.
First, I just want to say that even though we can't remember our first experiences in this world (0-3ish years), doesn't mean they didn't effect us. (In response to 15:15)
Second, Kid I love your videos and love this framing you have proposed here. It does seem gay men using surrogates get people's panties in a bunch wayyy more than straight people using them.
I also think the framing of having a child specifically being a *vanity* project just put having children in a clearer perspective, so thanks for processing, Zee
To suggest that gay men are trying to make people upset by starting a family reeks of homophobia.
But it has to be based on science. No academic paper has ever suggested that a baby that is directly taken from the birthing mother experiences anything bad or trauma.
@@Tsukonin I'm not making a claim about surrogacy. I'm just responding to kid's claim that "I don't remember the details of my early childhood so it doesn't affect me" -- it *could* affect you even if you don't remember it.
@@Tsukonin so my response could have implications for surrogacy, but not necessarily, if like you're saying, the science doesn't show harm. I would be skeptical though that surrogacy doesn't on average produce a negative on the child, relative to non surrogate children. I mean just not being breastfed seems important.
@@Tsukonin I know you're joking, but for anyone intrested: Psychobiological Roots of Early Attachment (Hofer, 2006). Early mother-child separation, parenting, and child well-being in Early Head Start families (Howard, 2011). Early Contact versus Separation: Effects on Mother-Infant Interaction One Year Later (Bystrova, 2009). Effect of mother-child separation and birth order on young children's responses to two potentially stressful experiences (Vernon, 1967). Attachment patterns of infants separated at birth (Rode, 1981). Parental separation at birth and depression in adulthood: a long-term follow-up of the Finnish Christmas Seal Home Children (Veijola, 2004). Temporary parental separation at birth and substance use disorder in adulthood: A long-term follow-up of the Finnish Christmas Seal Home Children (Veijola, 2007). Maternal separation at birth and schizophrenia-a long-term follow-up of the Finnish Christmas Seal Home Children (Maki, 2001). The Primal Wound: A Preliminary Investigation into the Effects of Separation from the Birth Mother on Adopted Children (Verrier, 1987). And of course there's hundreds more.
This is something that I’ve thought and gone back-and-forth about as a gay man who wants children. It would be nice to have (or for my husband to have) a biological connection to our children, but there are also children who need adopted and I have some of the same ethical concerns about it that you addressed. This was a great video!
As a gay with no intent of having kids, I can understand wanting a child with a biological connection, but surrogacy isn't just used by the gays so it's not really our fault that it's a viable option for many. Paris Hilton, the Kardashians, etc. I think the backlash to Shane specifically is because of his character and public persona (which is dog shit, basically). While I think adoption is the more ethical and moral route, surrogacy exists and people (gay and straight) use it. I would just hope they would be generous and caring towards the surrogate and passionate about parenthood, at the very least.
Surrogacy is completely outlawed over here (Germany), it's illegal to implant an egg cell that doesn't come from the woman that is going to bear the child. For a male gay couple that wouldn't matter (none of them has egg cells (usually)) but additionally contracts saying "ok it's your egg and you're going to carry the child, but you'll have no parental rights" are null and void. To me, commercial surrogacy in particular is just capitalist realism: Everything is for sale, nothing whatsoever is exempt.
I can also understand not wanting to adopt, but what about teaming up with a lesbian couple? No need to be lovers, you only need to be a tribe which generally should be doable. Or maybe like raising a kid with your sibling or cousin.
@@aoeuable I agree. I wouldn’t feel comfortable using someone else’s womb to give me a child. It doesn’t change that people do it (in the US at least).
@@aoeuable Agree. And the moms don't even have to be lesbians. I know two single hetero women who are co-parenting with a gay couple. In each scenario, the guys picked among themselves who would "take one for the team" to do it the natural way, lol. The families are still together and if one dad is good, maybe two are better, ha!
Paris and the Kardashians did get some backlash. Particularly when they indicated they had trouble bonding with their babies.
As a another geman I disagree. Adults should be able to exchange services as they please as long as all parties are legal consenting adults and do no serious harm to the life, property or ability to to life a free life. Also if you are living in germany you really dont need to be a surrogacy mother if you are poor you can relatively easily get handouts from the goverment in the form of Bürgergeld. Also why should a woman be able to kill the fetus but not be able to sell it? That makes no consistent sense. I am by the way pro choice as I dont think fetuses are equal to humans jsut as I dont believe animals are, but it makes no sense to outlaw buying the fetus but allowing killing it. Its like saying its complettly ok to establish the death penalty for bad inmates but letting inmates do work without real pay is slavery. @@aoeuable
Thank you for making this video! I am very against surrogacy for both straight and gay couples and HATE how it turns into a 'gay cant be parents' discussion instead of a 'stop exploiting women' discussion!
One things that is not specifically touched on in the video is that there are different types of surrogacy: commercial surrogacy (as mentioned in the video), and altruistic surrogacy (where the surrogate cannot be paid a fee). In the UK, only altruistic surrogacy is legally allowed. Other countries like India and Thailand have either banned commercial surrogacy, or banned surrogacy for non-nationals.
For me, it is not about whether the intended parents are a gay or straight couple, it's the possibility for abuse and manipulation that comes with commercial surrogacy. I'd personally like to see commercial surrogacy banned worldwide for everyone.
I think if only altruistic surrogacy was allowed then people would just pay an “altruistic” surrogate under the table. What kinds of abuse and manipulation happen with commercial surrogacy?
It's deeply disturbing to me how people view babies or children like commodities or bucket list items
Most maternity wards require everyone associated with the baby to have a bracelet to prevent someone walking off with someone else's baby. They usually are associated with the automatic doors and alarms and stuff.
1. I don't know who you've been speaking to but I couldn't wait for my kids to reach the age where I could talk to them, teach them, and show them the thing I love. My middle child recently learned to dive; it's great being able to share that with him.
2. Unlike Shane, Paris was never credibly accused of pedophilia.
3. Everyone I know who opposes surrogacy does so across the board. Have your own or adopt. This is only "inevitable" because we allow a market in human being to exist in the first place.
I agree with most of what you have said expect the dismissal of the argument that the distress the child and surrogate feel when they're being separated being unimportant. Of course not everyone whose pregnant is going to love and care about their baby but the bond created in pregnancy in undeniable. I imagine it would be very distressing to a child to be separated from the woman who gave birth to them. Whether or not they remember it when they get older doesn't dictate whether it affected them or not.
I think the issue with so much of surrogacy, adoption, and other ways that people get children could be remedied with a cultural shift. No one is entitled to a child's life. Not everyone who wants a child can have a child, and that's okay. Children are not FOR their parents, they are not commodities, they are human beings, and you are not entitled to raising a baby just because you want to. I'm not anti-natal, I don't think everyone should stop having children, but I do think that it needs to be far more normalized to not want children or even to want children but decide not to have them. This is something I've been coming to terms with, as a lesbian--I want to be a mother, but I also have valid ethical concerns about the adoption and surrogacy industry, and I'm not going to participate in something that harms children and biological mothers just because I want to experience motherhood. Motherhood is something that may work out for me later in life in different ways, but it is not something I'm entitled to, and I have come to terms with that.
I wish that, instead of turning to sketchy industries, people who want to be parents but can't would turn to other ways that they could support children. They could become foster parents or teachers, they could volunteer with organizations that support children living in low-income areas, or they could donate money to any of the many charities that provide for children. But of course, many of them don't actually want to help children--they want to have living accessories.
I suppose the conclusion here is that people need to sit down and examine WHY they want children, and if their motivations are entirely selfish, perhaps they should get a turtle.
im going off the title (and probably on a tangent) since i haven't watched the video yet, but i've been on twitter for too long lately (never a good idea) and i have found fascinating that the people tweeting about how much surrogacy is horrible and disgusting (which i agree), always use a gay male couple as the poster child for it... it's almost as if the problem these people have is with two men renting a woman's body and buying a literal human instead of the "normal" man and a woman. there has been on twitter a lot of people trying to paint gay men as inherently perverted and disruptive to society by retweeting the same 3 cases of gay couples who adopted boys and abused them horrendously and also the surrogacy thing and it just messes with me, because no one even dares question whether or not straight men deserve human rights when they commit the same horrible crimes.
Edit: typo
18:28 the same woman that said we are living in a time of post patriarchy highlights this patriarchal conversation. Make it make sense.
The conversation has patriarchal themes, sure, but that doesn't mean the entire society is run by men. Read a dictionary.
@@yayayacutlikethat you strike me as someone who cannot see the forest for the trees buy a clue
@@yayayacutlikethatthe entire society is not run by men, but it's governed by institutions which were created by patriarchy, thousands of years ago. It may not be strictly patriarchy, already in America, but it is patri linearity, and patriarchy has ruled the earth as the most widespread and violent institutions since the birth of civilization itself
Facts 🎯
History isn't a straight line bruh, this is just crapitalism
I am not a Shane fan but the most bizaare comment ive seen was one calling them misogynistic for have twin boys and not girls.
Could you do a video on your research process before a video, or how you keep up with reading on topics, do you keep any note systems or anything? Would be fun to see!
The main issue I take with surrogacy is that it is the ultimate last step to capitalize a woman's body. So far it was possible through sex work. If she got pregnant however it was up to her to keep the child or give it away (or in some countries to also abort). If she kept it people had to help her, and it was accepted that she had done all the important work and needed, love patience and care, money and support (like if a guy got her pregnant he would have had to pay and she would have been allowed to take care of the baby).
Now with surrogacy a woman capitalizes her body and makes pregnancy and birth a service. It is kind of similar to the discussion of paying stay home mothers and mothers in general for giving birth.
I am having a hard time to view pregnancy and birth as a service. It should be something that is entire done selfless and not something to make direct money from. Yes, if a woman married rich and gave birth and then got divorced she kind of got pregnant for money, but she was also stuck with the baby and it was not the norm.
I also feel quite strongyl that if someone wants to have a child then they need to either be willing to go through prgnancy and labour or find someone who does it with them and then also has equal say in how the child gets raised. As for gays that would work through teaming up with lesbians and being kind of like more functioning divorced parents (not ideal but the status how it is for many people).
I also don't see a reason for infertile couples to go for surrogacy. I understand it is difficult to not be able to have own's own genetic child, but those few cases don't excuse the bigger problem of surrogacy. So infertile couples should consider adoption.
With women using their body to breed babies I get big farm house cow vibes. Women should be outraged by the idea that another woman is carrying their child. WOmen should be proud of the gift that they can carry a child themselves and that this gives them a natural bond with the baby and an ancient right to the baby. Obviously she needs to be ready and needs to want it. But those factors out the way a female body shouldnt be a birthing oven.
A female body should not be up for capitalization. No sex for sell, no sexy nudes and sex images for sale, no womb for sale, no breast milk for sale and no eggs for sale. All this comes with the deal of having someone investing into the woman, and through pregnancy having to invest into her until she dies and into the offspring. And if you want to be sure the person isnt using you, only do it with someone who loves you and not someone who wants to do business. That way you are less likely to get killed once you gave them what they wanted.
and I say this as a researcher who works with gene editing and see's the future in a new human based species through gene editing. But all of this is not yet something that should be implemented as it will have grande scale impact and change the whole human narrative. For now enjoy having a biological mother who also birthed you.
Rights should be made for the surrogacy at least: only the biological mother can be a surrogate. The surrogate decides when the baby is given away. She is allowed to bond with the baby and be a vital part, up to raising it full term. She has the right to change her mind if she feels to strong about it. If the eggs of another woman get implemented she still has the right to keep it in case the bond feels to strong for her.
the future sounds scary
That's the same for men though. Men also get money for sperm donation and to not have a right to a place in their childs future. They also get coerced into prostituting themselves or selling their bodies as cannon fodder in rich people's wars or selling their bodies as sportspeople so rich people can swap them between clubs like playing cards or selling their bodies to do physical and dangerous labour in mines or on oil rigs or whatever, and when they die doing these things their sacrifice is often converted into a payout for their family as if they sold him as a cow to be slaughtered.
I never liked surrogacy. If you can’t have kids there’s plenty of kids to adopt in the foster care system. It seems selfish to need a baby and to need that baby to have your dna.
I don’t like or care for Shane but people trying to claim he’s attempting to breast feed the child are awful. If you know anything about children it’s recommended to have skin to skin with baby with BOTH parents. It’s a bonding thing.
Are you really going to pretend like he didn’t use that baby as a prop and put it against his nipple? Absolutely disgusting.
Don't people usually hold babies like that?@@ironmountain7907
Upon birth it is only important that the child be skin to skin with the mother. It's a baby for crying out loud, do you really think it knows where the sperm used to fertilize their mother's egg came from? My husband had a hard time accepting this as well during the birth of our first child, but eventually he got it: that baby doesn't give a rat's ass about their dad during those first few months. Their father might as well be a stranger, because effectively they are. All they know and want is the woman they had been calling home for 9 months.
@@MB-yl9hm This is your experience and not everyone’s. It isn’t the case with all babies and their dad. My brother has been heavily involved and bonded with his two infant sons immediately post birth. Research says ALL partners benefit from skin to skin with the infant.
@@ClementineDaydream This isn't about my opinion or experiences, this is about the physiobiological reality of how infants' brains develop. I guarantee your nephews are not some neurological miracle. Of course it's important to have fathers present and holding their children from infancy to establish a connection with them on the adults end, but from the perspective of the infant they don't know who anyone around them is except for their mother. My husband also said he was bonding with the baby at like 2 months. Sure, let the men think what they want, it doesn't hurt anyone, in fact it's probably beneficial that they think that. But the truth of the matter is, barely any of the baby's neural pathways have formed. They won't really start recognizing who their dad, grandma, sister, etc. is until maybe around 1 year. This is just to highlight how crucial the role of the mother is to healthy child development.
I once did a parental survey of my diverse group of friends. I found that many, probably most, parents are pretty horrible. But most of my friends are caring and decent people. So please don't feel bad, don't despair.
Most parents arent horrible lol y’all are chronically online and it shows. Abuse and neglect are the exceptions, not the norm. I work with parents and even the abusive and neglectful ones do they best, but their best is shit. Of course im not talking about extreme or sexual abuse
@@alexterieur8813 The fact that you work with parents filters out a large percentage of parents in this world. And yet you said the best for some is sh*t. There you go.
@@lkae4 « i found that many, probably most, parents are pretty horrible ». To which i replied abuse and neglect is the exception, not the norm, which is a direct counter argument to yours. I wonder which one of us has the biggest sample size 🧐
@@lkae4 the fact that i work with parents filters out a large percentage of parents in the world , but somehow your « observations » dont filter out a a large percentage of parents ? Don’t weaponize being dense to win arguments pls
@@alexterieur8813 Your sample size are the parents who meet with you. Do you understand how incredibly privileged and Eurocentric that group is compared to the rest of the world? SMH.
Personally, I really dislike the idea of a child being intentionally separated from its biological parents. I can also imagine that having your baby taken from you, even voluntarily, has to be pretty psychologically damaging for the mother.
I assume you're aware this practice is mandated by law in US States that have outlawed abortion. An expectant mother who for any reason is unable to support the child after birth is required to give it up for adoption.
@@lishlash3749can you cite the states and laws? I'm trying to find that online and can't find anything
Theres also been evidence that kids born from surrogacy have increased risks of chilhood cancer
Its almost setting up the baby for failure without the mothers natural bacteria and a weakened immune system from the frozen eggs
Not everyone who is pregnant wants kids
@@soapy6 then try not getting pregnant or get an abortion, and I still think that even if you don't want the child there has to be some subconscious bond
Just came back from the Intimacy video! It was so good
My thing is...adoption and surrogacy is literally the same thing. Adoption is iust when the baby is nearly born or have already been born. Both includes mothers consenting to giving their child( whether egg or developed baby) away. I personally dont have a problem with neither(when it comes from a good place). But i do understand that kids should atleast know their birth parents and that if there is a gay couple. A child needs to have an adult figure of the opposite sex around. Male and female presence is important. But just my opinion.
I don't agree, people do care about their children, but sometimes life happens needs more context it also depends on the the people and why they have children
You are exactly right, she sounds like a bitter angry woman that either had a horrible childhood, or just really isn’t is knowledgeable about the subject then she thinks she is. I don’t know if she gets all of her information from social media and that’s how she makes her judgments, but to say People just want cute little babies and they look at them like they are pets is just a ludicrous way to look at things, unless like I said, she basically lives online and doesn’t get out much
@@girodeitalia2259 yes she's hurt and want to be understood but haven't found the right people to move forward with her trauma, that quite sad, but the world is not only evil and misery and her current mindset is not good at all, but some people just need more time, well shit happens
Yes, this is a topic where I think Kidology's bias due to her upbringing really comes through in her videos. I know people who prefer the baby stage and who prefer the child stage(s). I'm more in the child camp. Watching people develop and become full fledged adults in real time is amazing! The personal growth is much more apparent in children and teens than adults, which makes it more wonderful to both observe and support. But I have enough experience with infant care to handle it when the time comes. I suppose my bias is that, despite personal flaws everyone has, my parents and the family and friends they chose to surround me with growing up were mostly on the mediocre to good side of parenting.
I have nothing against surrogacy, but hearing there are not enough protection laws (i didn't know about it before) makes me feel weird. I treat it like adoption, with some more steps. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ If we come to the point when there are enough protection laws of it, I can see it being a good way to have kids.
I agree with your points. Blaming same gender couples is dumb and just wanting to spread more babies is a shitty move. if you're not ready for another induvial in your family, don't get them. at the same time I'm happy for your existing.
I'm gay and an antinatalist partly because I agree with EVERYTHING you said about people having children for ego, commodifying children, 99% of parents being extremely vain narcissistic etc. It's the homophobia for me. I find myself in the position of wanting to defend gay men who use surrogacy as an option, but not because they indulged in their own vanity project. I find myself pushing back because there is such a massive double standard. To me, surrogacy is the issue, not specifically gay surrogacy. People commodifying children and not treating them like humans is the issue, not specifically queer parents doing so. Thank you for threading that needle.
I thought I would comment as my wife and I had twins via surrogacy this year due to my wife being infertile due to endometriosis. I’m British and she’s Nigerian. The surrogate was from Nigeria. The stigma around infertility, particularly for women in west African culture is brutal. The thriving surrogacy industry in Nigeria and Ghana is mostly for heterosexual African couples who have emigrated to the west. Nothing to do with homosexuality as it’s illegal or socially unacceptable in these countries. The money we paid was pitiful by western standards but will allow the surrogate to fully fund a medicine degree and ultimately move to the west likely lifting her whole family out of poverty. I’m aware this does little for west African society as a whole.
I have a lot of discomfort about this myself. I wasn’t able to go to Nigeria for the birth, so my kids just arrived n a plane at 6 weeks old and I feel that a part of the experience of being a father was denied me. I also feel uncomfortable about the exploitative nature of the surrogacy but we aren’t rich and famous and could not have afforded it any other way. I am very concerned by the fact that my wife has made out the twins were live birthed to all Nigerian people other than her mum, and I think she intends to tell them they were born naturally even though they biologically have no relationship to her.
However I strongly take issue with the idea that people want babies not children. I personally can’t wait for them to grow up into people I can talk to and possibly one day share kidology videos with ( probably what the internet was like in the olden days by then…)
15:10 Not that I am agreeing with the woman but your argument doesn't exactly stand here given that we do know that events and stressors during early childhood that a person does not remember still have an impact on the child's future temper, behaviour and even health outcomes, it is scientifically proven.
Imo commercial surrogacy should be illegal, regardless of the parent's sexuality. If you have a friend or family member who will offer to carry the kid to term that's another matter
I can't wait for lab grown babies and artifical wombs
You're in for a long wait...
1:37 i hate babies and like children. it blows my mind that the majority of people want a fragile, completely dependent being. babies r annoying they just cry and shit, what is fun about that?
Yea do people really like babies? All they do is cry, drool and poop.
Yeah i was very confused, the baby stage is awful. If i didn't know that they will became a normal human being i don't think that i would consider this at all. Who likes this extremely exhausting part?!
Man, i mean i agree that most people want babies for the baby part and not the children part i feel very weird for being the opposite. I have zero desire to be pregnant and i dont particularly want babies but i do want to be a mom and i want children. I'd very much like to adopt. Its still probably for selfish reasons. I'm probably blind to my own biases there. But it feels like i just want to participate in helping them grow and learn to be people and give them all the love. Maybe part of it is looking at how i feel like my mom treated me as though she was living vicariously through me while also wanting me to be her perfect little project for her to mould. Which obviously didnt work... its often felt like i was more of a reflection of her than my own person.
Thanks for explaining your thoughts on the topic, I totally agree with you.
You are the best discovery I had on youtube in many years.
I want children, not babies. I know how to interact with children but babies are intimidating. As soon as they reach 4 and can function independently at a basic level - that is the stage I would like to skip to if i had the option.
looking so gorgeous kidology…you are a beauty for the ages…luv from a random gay boy fan
Being a lesbian has been a bigger blessing than I realized. I didn't even think about surrogacy, me and my gf only ever talked about who is going to be pregnant...
@@-...-zed-...- BRUH idk that's up to the kid and the dad to decide. If they want to know I'll give them all the info I had on the guy 🤷♀️ and if they don't then that's that. My choice is having a child and raising them to the best of my ability.
My child's relationship with the father isn't for me to decide. I was separated from my biological mother since I was six months old and getting to know her in my 20's has been amazing. If my child wants that in the future I won't stop em 💕
I get you want a heteronormative family unit but I was raised that way and was brought up without a mother anyway.
It is what it is.
Besides my brother and grandfather will be around if the child requires strong male role models. So we all good 👍 thanks for the concern ig????
What does being a lesbian have to do with it? If you, or even you and your child fall on hard times, being a surrogate would still be on the table for both of you, and then you'd have to contend with it
@@kafkaesqueeethe way sperm donors work you may not have that option for your child. Sperm donors are typically anonymous. Unless you use a male friend as a sperm donor your child likely won't be able know their father.
@@kafkaesqueeeWho ever doesn’t have a close male relative. 😊
@@kafkaesqueeeall strong male role model support wars as normality , war is a biologicall behaviour created in females , females created the hunter animals which kill peaceful animals beings
That other video about pearls mom was suggest to me :)
i don't have a problem with surrogacy in concept but i think it needs to be extremely highly regulated with serious protections for the surrogate. and honestly i think there shouldn't be any financial incentive at all. the surrogate should have medical bills covered imo and should get maternity leave to recover after giving birth with the associated pay but the second you start paying people to be a surrogate you're creating a system where poor women are going to be exploited. i don't think being pregnant and giving birth should be a way of making money. saying this as someone who would 100% do it for enough money
I'm strongly against surrogacy, either done by gays or hetero couples, mainly for the economic and contractual exploitation that's behind it; I'm also strongly against prenatal murder, and for those who want but can't have children the best alternative is adopting the son of other unwilling parents (even if, since nobody is born as a blank slate, there's still a separation trauma)
100% agree!
That's like fighting against homelessness by making it illegal.
@@Rig0r_M0rtisif you are you referring to people who recur to abortion due to poverty, that's not what I was primarily talking about; in their case the solutions would be of economic nature
Pretty much agree with you. I don’t really approve of surrogacy generally whether it’s straight or gay couples. I’d rather people who can’t have children adopted and that we made adopting easier somehow. Still, I know it’s complicated but it shouldn’t be easier to buy a kid than to adopt. That is kinda vulgar. I get why people do it, cos adopting is a bureaucratic nightmare.
I would disagree with you on the idea that just because you can’t remember your mother’s voice being separated had no impact on you. Please look up the work of people like Bowlby, Ainsworth, Main and Siegel; attachment is one of the most robust and evidenced psychological theories out there. Your early pre-verbal (and hence pre-explicit memory) times are pivotal in the way you will then approach the world.
Yes, kids can and do form new attachments and can form attachment figures with any caregiver but what the woman says is true to a degree. Babies do have an implicit relationship with their mother before birth and do then reach for her the minute they are born. I don’t agree with the homophobic undertone to what she said at all though. And like I say, kids can move past this over time but to say it has no impact is patently false.
I thought your pivot to talk about abortion was a bit of a fudge tbh. You didn’t adequately address her point.
I’ve said this before and maybe it’s because I’m a therapist but Zee, I think when you’re ready to have therapy with someone you might find it really helpful. Don’t wanna appear patronising but just thought I’d say that.
I’d rather blame the Kardashians for surrogacy. 😂😂🤣
LOL Paris one is just funny, she can adopt she knows that right. Hopefully they all will be loving and caring parents since they have the financial support. However parenting takes alot
Paris did the absolute *most* with that wheel chair. Lmao 😂
People are up in arms about Shane, when convicted p43d0s can commision kids.
Baby Gammy - 60 Mins Australia, it is one of the best interviews I have seen.
I don't believe that Shane is a p43d0 or that he violated his cat, but the photos of Ryland looking exhausted when he did nothing except drive to the hospital...
It is off-putting.
Surrogacy is corrupt to the core. The babies suffer.
There's documented evidence of Shane being a pedophile, Mr Snowflake did a great series on it if you're interested.
I’m so excited for this 😆😆😆 I’m only 6 minutes in so I’m not sure if you touch on it, but I thought it was pretty disgusting that Kim Kardashian had at least 2 of her kids by surrogates… for a multitude of reasons, but to name a few 1)she was already able to have her own biological child 2)she’s already paying other people to raise her kids 3)in my opinion it’s greedy to bring more life into the world when there’s so many kids growing up in foster care and as hard as is it is to adopt babies (bc ppl who are able to adopt don’t seem to want them when they’re not babies anymore) with money like that it’d be easy… and yeah I’m just going to finish this video ❤
I have to make a correction: the main woman spearheading the hate campaign against Shane Dawson is Jeanna Hoch & yes, she ABSOLUTELY has savagely criticized Hilton, et al.
Oh yeah even to this day PH gets snark about not carrying her children that it doesn’t make her a “real mother”
Kid really didnt do much research when making this one did she
"People don't want children. They want babies." Interesting. I don't want to have kids because I don't want to have babies, I want chilren - like, a family
It’s a generality. Most people talk about having kids as “having a baby,” about wanting kids as “I want babies.” But deep down many want their kids to be independent. Losing yourself and your interests is a big part of postpartum depression.
I don't want a forever baby, honestly. When I have kids, I'll be very excited for my kids to leave the baby stage because children are more independent than babies, less loud, and less smelly. They also develop their own personalities, and that's a wonderful thing to see for your children. I don't understand the obsession with babies over older children. You can reason with older children. You can't with babies.
Danke für die Denkanstöße. Thanks for the food for thought.
I will just weigh in on the hospital bit with Paris. IP's (intended parents) are given their own room, which is always a single bed, because babies usually stay 24 hours and the birthing woman has another room since she medically had the enormous experience. With legal docs drafted, everyone pre-agrees to how the 'hand off' goes, who is in the room at the moment of birth, if the surrogate gets to hold the baby or not, etc. And yes, the IP's get a hospital bracelet for identification. You don't just hand a newborn to anyone sitting in a random bed. :)
Does the mother get to change her mind if she revokes her consent? It probably depends on the country and state
@@trianglesandsquares420that depends on a number of factors, the state you live in, & whether the surrogate’s own egg was used to make the baby. I believe a lack of genetic ties to the child is a huge factor.
"The birthing woman." Lol, do you hear yourself?
11:26 The way Zee laughed at the realization of Paris having the hospital bed and not for the baby and the surrogate 😭🤣
Also it's weird, but in my country, surrogacy is generally badly viewed, but I think it's worst viewed in hetero couples. Because hetero couples more often than not can carry their own babies and have it easier to adopt in most countries. I think what's worst is when celebrities try to normalize surrogacy or act proud about it. In my country we have a gay actor who's known to have gone to the US to have a surrogated baby, but no photos of the process have ever been shown, and he barely speaks about that or anything in his private life. In comparison we have a celebrity 68 woman surrogating a baby with his deceased son's sperm to be a grandma/mother on a whimp, making lots of photos, even in a wheelchair out of the hospital as if she had have the deliver and couldn't walk adter it.... I'm sorry but that's nuts.
I just love hearing you talk…..
I don’t know if this is ironic, but one day I would like to have a child, but the turn off is the baby part: I find babies grotesque and boring lmao. Can’t show a baby Toy Story, so what’s the point?
Anyway, great video as always, you offer a much needed nuance and humanism to the conversation.
Same. Babies are disgusting but after elementary school the kinda sound a lot more fun. Maybe look into long-term fostering?
Fantastic video as always!
You make so many good points and children are often seen as extensions of parents. It goes to show intrinsic bad traits don’t change..unless you work to change them. I am determined my daughter should be her own person.
Its easier for us as the actual parents of our children to say that though, afterall, we didn't need to pay for our children like a dog.
Great video! I’ve been really trying to reckon with my views on the whole surrogacy thing and it’s unfortunate how the conversation is being muddied by homophobia.
The bed is probably because of the damn reality show...They want things to look a certain way.
Apparently skin to skin contact between father and child doesn’t exist anymore 🙄
17:35 this is why legal child support is so important.
Any market is a slave to our thoughts and feelings. Money changed nothing excluding the efficiency of exchange.
I think that people care about their children and don't think personalities are necessarily the barometer for the approaches of people with similar views.
First of all, how old is that discussion that includes Andrew Tate? The thought of him expressing his misogyny within a group not only makes my skin crawl but is the making of a horror film. As far as surrogacy goes, my closest male couple used this method to birth both a son and daughter along with a female couple in another country. All four parents are raising these beautiful and successful children. On the other hand, I do recall an extremely wealthy woman that traveled to a country so poor that the mother was over the moon to be given such as sizable contract to do what she did for free with her worthless husband. Long/short, the husband decided to stall the process through extortion. After finally satisfying his greed, the child was brought to the US and given the world but not the love he needed. The mother finally had to ship him off to boarding school, provide private tutors, after he was suspended from high schools throughout the US. She wanted the idea of a child. But not the actions it took to raise one.
cute hairstyle & look today Zee. Loving the reds 👌
Kid I have to disagree. People care about children. Every day of my life I see children being cared for and loved. People adore children. I’m sorry if your upbringing made that difficult for you to notice or appreciate. Best wishes.
I disagree. People don't care about children. I see it every day since i am 4 years old. What now?
@@vivvy_0
Your trauma isn’t a replacement for knowledge of the world.
I mean bhad babie is going to have a baby and I feel the same way about that as I feel about Shane dawson and hers is not thru surrogacy
I must be weird, I don't like pets or the idea of an "ethernal baby", that sounds completely uninteresting to me. I like children a lot. I even like teens. I've always enjoyed to see my younger cousins develop, change, go through every stage. If I were to have children my greatest joy would be to see them develop, walk, talk, learn, become more intelligent, have hobbies, have thoughts of their own, see their first philosophical attemps as human beings, maybe see them fall in love for the first time... for me that's the beauty or appeal of having children, and therefore, liking them at an undeveloped stage more than not sounds... really bad to me. Basically, for me the beauty of a baby derives from their pontential.
I'm sure these youtubers and celebrities might not be great parents, but not because of their sexuality, but because of their personality. It's actually sad that there are people who are fit to be parents that can't afford to have them or adopt them, and people like this guy or Paris Hilton can go buy babies on a whimp like they're pets or toys.
I feel like hatred of Shane Dawson being portrayed as homophobia just feels a bit inaccurate. People don't think he's a predator because he's gay, he's a predator who happens to be gay and people don't think he's fit to have children. Tbh I feel like there are people who didn't even want him to have more pets 😭
Watched it!
Hi Kid, I do love you and your views. I agree shane and this sitch are not being fairly addressed however you did mention that you do not remember your bio mom and it doesnt affect you... however I would argue that you have mentioned in prior videos that you do not feel deserving of pleasure. I think this comes from your abandonment. This is not an attack but something I would argue worth reflecting further.
Kid, this isn't about gay parents, this is about you finding a way to talk about something you feel personally wronged by. When that lady is talking about how a child only knows their mothers voice, smell, heartbeat, etc. at birth, this isn't "stupid," this is a biological fact. I'm really surprised by your just complete dismissal of this without clearly doing any of your own research. Of course you're not going to remember your mother's voice in the womb now, you literally didn't start developing memory until you were around 3. But when you were just born, the only person in the world that you had ever known in the approximately first 9 months of your life was your mother, and it was only your mother who could sooth you after the trauma of being born because, as it is, humans are actually born too early and need to stay close to the womb, so to say, for at least another 6 months.
If you want to claim that this early spike in cortisol levels and lack of emotional regulation didn't effect you in the long term, whatever, you can say what you want, but don't just wipe your butt on nearly a century of child development and psychological research without looking into this. Your adoption was a horror show, and no child should have been made to endure that, but most adoption agencies are cognizant of this, and we should all be fighting for adoption agencies to place orphaned children with stable parents as soon as possible, because frankly to do otherwise is child abuse. You're right about the horrors of modern adoption, but you lose the plot quickly when comparing it to the unique horrors of surrogacy.
The health concerns related to surrogacy aren't just the obvious post-birth effects for mother and baby, but the health concerns created upon the child's conception. Our bodies have undergone millions of years of evolution for this very purpose of reproducing, it's more complicated than just jamming two sex-cells in a petri dish and turkey basting the embryo up some lady's vagina. There are so many complications with artificial insemination and implantation that not only increase the surrogate mothers chances of developing breast and ovarian cancers (among other health concerns), but also increases the child's risk of birth defects.
And this whole "forced" to give birth argument with abortion, as if we are also "forced" to have our periods each month since technically their are pills and treatments that can stop that as well if we wished. Life is not so simple that a woman who says she doesn't want a child during pregnancy will continue to feel that way when she holds the child for the first time, nor do women who initially want a pregnancy always find themselves enthused once the child is born. Look up the Turnaway Study, nearly all women who weren't able to have access to an abortion and ended up giving birth to their children do not regret this. Which isn't surprising, holding your own child profoundly changes most people. Regardless of the wants of the mother, the child exists. This isn't ancient Rome, we cannot just kill people because life is unfair and systems are broken. I really thought you were so much smarter than this.
Are you anti-abortion? If you are, I'd like to see the studies you're referencing.
There's a big problem with what you're saying though. There's literally no way of knowing if a mum will "change her mind and be ok with having a baby". We can't know which ones will change their mind upon holding the baby, and which ones won't. And even if she is OK with having the baby in the end, this doesn't mean she is going to be a fit parent, magically recover from the trauma that pregnancy and its context might have caused, etc. Most women who get pregnant by accident (or worse) don't have the means nor emotional maturity to take care of the kid. They don't have a career or economical stability. A lot of mums also get post partum depression, or don't feel bonded with the child when holding her/him. What should these mums do? I can see how this attitude of "you WILL love your baby" makes their feelings of rejection and disgust towards their young to grow even stronger. Things get messy, women are human.
I find your comment is very rose-tinted, thinking most women can just "get over it" if they have a pregnancy they don't want. It sounds like you're disregarding women's feelings when it comes to pregnancy, their bodies and their lives. There's a reason why women with unwanted pregnancy or post partum depression are more likely to kill their kids.
Having said that, I agree with you about in vitro. I think IUI should replace in vitro in cases where both bio parents are healthy (you literally only need a syringe too so it's way more simple).
@espinabrau6672 Yes, I am against abortion. And I'd happily list any studies regarding child development and obstetrics. Though I'm not sure which point you're referring to. I just brought up the Turnaway Study to point out that the act of giving birth fundementally changes the way we view the world (obviously, lol). There will always be abuse and suffering in the world, with abortion or not. To pretend that abortion is somehow a tool of mercy for the masses instead of the presumptuous ending of a human life is the rose-tinted view in my opinion.
Turnaway was an admittedly poorly designed study based on the accounts of more than 700 women who had received abortions and just over 200 who had been denied an abortion between 2008 - 2010. JAMA Psychiatry has a 2017 paper reviewing the 5-year data, and a book about the full 10-year study just came out in 2021. I apologize for not linking anything as I'm on mobile, but these should be fairly easy to search for.
The authors would have you believe that the main takeaway from the data is that denying women abortions is "harmful" and that women who received abortions were "happier." Yet when you actually read through their findings it is revealed that while women who were denied an abortion were initially more prone to anxiety, depression, etc. than their post-abortion counterparts, when you follow up with them post-birth they are just as satisfied with their lives as the post-abortion group, if not more so since I don't imagine that a study like this can properly measure the impact of having a child on one's life.
I am not saying that women will always become amazing responsible mothers upon the birth of their child. Of course not, I think it's evident that the world is full of all too self-absorbed and unsuitable mothers. But I think it's also evident that most women understand their obligation to their children. And even then, regardless of whether a mother can recognize that (should that be due to PPD or some other factor), that shouldn't have any bearing on that child's basic human right to life. I think it's dangerous to suggest otherwise.
And i'm not quite sure what point you're trying to make by bringing up the fact that there are women who kill their children ex utero. It's awful, it's all awful. I can be against murder without also having to personally account for every case where life goes horribly awry.
Interesting little fact about the Roman part, some women took well to Christianity, due to being heavily traumatized by infant mortality and forced abortions. It actually seemed rather “progressive” to them. Interesting how times change.
It was a good and important video.