Michael Jordan vs. Chris Webber: The RewatchaBulls | The Ryen Russillo Podcast
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- Опубликовано: 6 май 2020
- Ryen Russillo is joined by Bill Simmons and Joe House for another installment of 'The RewatchaBulls' in which they revisit Game 2 of Round 1 of the 1997 Playoffs between the Chicago Bulls and Washington Bullets. They discuss Michael Jordan scoring 55 points in the game despite not really hogging the ball, why this game is embodies the potential and disappointment of Chris Webber's career, and why the Bulls defense made them an all-time great team.
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It's honestly ridiculous that Jordan had more playoff games where he scored 50 or more than he had games in which he scored less than 20.
Lol thats insane. He was the most dominant player I've ever seen, not Shaq.
@@elbowgang9715 mj is skillfully dominant while shaq is physically dominant, were comparing sports cars vs bulldozers here.
@@ghostgurl17 dominance is dominance I don't care if it's through pure muscle or skill results are the only thing that count
i know, and what's funny is that somehow that is still not enough to make jordan the goat all time. For people who say jordan isnt the greatest. I ask what else more could he have done. Imagine if he retired n 93 and never came back. He probably wouldnt be in alot of peoples top 5 all time list. lol
@@elbowgang9715 nobodys saying shaq is the most dominant,successful whatever overall, they just say hes the most physically dominant basketball player, why so bitter with the dude? cant you compare mike to somebody else proper like ali or tigerwoods?
Michael Jordan is just a once in a planet’s lifetime player.
And piss is yellow and sky is blue.
House sounds like Harold Ramis, Russillo sounds like Brian from Family Guy and Simmons sounds like Nick Cage in Peggy Sue Got Married.
1:01:00 That conversation about MJ taking half the shots but not looking like a ball-hog is spot on. I think part of the reason is that MJ was usually very quick and decisive with his offensive game; he'll catch it in the block and immediately go to work for a pass or shot. No standing and dribbling, no wasted time. House nails it at 1:03:30.
Took a lot of shots but he never held the ball for long. A chucker is nowhere near as bad as a ball stopper
It's the Dean Smith thing. He got a lot of crap for "holding MJ back" but that style was key in his development. Plus he was sharing the ball with 3 other 1st round picks so hogging/stopping the ball just wasn't an option. He learned to get to his spots quickly and he took that with him to the league
Yeah, he was the best option.
It's like being a quarterback and you have that wide receiver or tight end who always makes the catch.
I hope they do more of these Jordan/Bulls deep dives.
the bulls destroying a team defensively for a quarter is the equivalent of the warriows going on their classic 3rd quarter runs offensively
The 12 and 13 Heat defense was very simular
Masco 24 2011 bulls v heat was the best defensive series of the 2010s by far.
wish more people would give credit to lebron and wade from 2010-2013 ..they reminded me of pippen and mj especially in 2010-2011 where they had no help at times and just won 22 of 23 games with defense and won the celtics and bulls series with defense heck vs Indiana they had no bosh in 2012 for games 4-6 and they just ripped their hearts out with basically chalmers haslem and bench guys getting 2-3 ppg….it was insane to rewatch how james and wade killed the pacers with like 2 guys and a bunch of spare parts combining to be a bench and not really a 6th man or 5th option just a bunch of 8th men out there around 4 dudes
Used to call it "The Quarter from Hell"
Warriors put the clamps in too.
Joe House got that fat John Wall team USA pic in the back lmfaooooo
Lol
hes the best kind of fan the bullets have had some of the worst luck since stealing a title in 78 ...its depressing to look at their playoff history from 1988-2004 and see one series and no wins for that long for a proud franchise before and since......like what?..how did they suck that bad for so long with the talent they had?..it makes no sense...they had big ben sheed c webb rip mj rod and juwan in that time ...the pistons built their core from this poor wreckage of spare almost bullets parts..
@@razkable Then John Wall ruptures his Achilles tendon at home smh, hopefully he's got some quickness/explosiveness left when he comes back.
Thank god for this content. Only reason I’m getting through quarantine.
My favorite part of rewatchabulls is the marv slander for Jordan lmaooo this man is so unimpressed MJ 😂
Dirk Nowitzki was the other power forward you were thinking of Bill goes to show how Underrated he was
how did all three of them forget about him . . .
Also Pau Gasol was not chopped liver either...
He gets slept on far too much considering how he destroyed all the other ones in the playoffs save for Duncan
No one was talking about Dirk in the vein of KG, Duncan, Webber for a reason. McDyess was a better PF at the time than Dirk
Huan Do didnt he beat duncan in a game 7 in san antonio in 2006? yes he did
49:34 funny how they're waxing poetic about MJ's incredible midrange game when earlier it was "the worst shot in basketball". Thats the part stat nerds don't realize...a lethal midrange game makes you unstoppable everywhere.
@Thulsa Doom they do utilize it. KD and Kawhi fucked shit up with it in last year's playoffs
It's a good shot if the player can reliably make it and also make plays off it. Jordan is different because he commands the attention of the defense at which point he can shoot anyway or pass to a wide open guy. This is why elite PGs today are so important--they can make their shots from anywhere and make their passes. Today MJ is probably a giant point guard.
Yea those 2 have mastered the mid range game. Anthony Davis needs to utilize it more with his length and shooting touch.
@Thulsa Doom I mean kawhi and KD should use it but what they're saying in the video is about players who are not as good at it. Like if you're not elite at the midrange just take a couple of steps back and shoot a 3
You guys should compare 1st Team All NBA teams from year to year (or decade to decade) etc.
Boooy, were you drinking good-idea-juice before you posted!?
2011. Drose. Bryant. Lebron. KD. Dwight
'88 - Magic, Jordan, Bird, Barkley, Hakeem. No one's beating that team.
Retro Tube lmao that’s a nasty lineup, my god
@@RetroTube1982 2003 all nba 1st team can def give them a run for their money
TMAC, KOBE, KG, DUNCAN, SHAQ
The rewatchaBulls is my favorite thing on RUclips. Keep doing more MJ and 90's stuff, I love this. Also, loved Sonics vs Suns.
Webber is quietly one of the bigger wasted potential stories in NBA history. Webber not being in the HOF is as egregious as Sidney Moncreif and Kevin Johnson not being in.
He was great until his injury....he should be in the HOF
Webber did get robbed in his prime
Xalpha23 are you referring to his impropriety off the court or his game on the court?
@@swpdisciple what did kj do?
Lord Duperb he showered with an underage girl when he was mayor of Sacramento
Marv's commentary on NBA on NBC is synonymous with Jordan's career and it only enhances his legacy.
Webber had a five year peak in Sacramento from '99 to '03 and was a legitimate All-NBA franchise player. If he brought that type of effort and maturity in his first five seasons, then he would have made the HOF on the first ballot.
Webber was more suited to be a HOF second banana to an alpha HOF closer.
I agree. To me, Webber was HANDS DOWN a HOF talent. I don't think he QUITE had a HOF CAREER. That is, if the basketball HOF actually had REAL standards. His greatest version of himself as a player was 99-03 in Sacramento, before tearing his ACL in the 03 playoffs and effectively ending his prime. He had a tremendous rookie season in which he was the best player on a 50 GS team. But his Washington stint from 94-99 was basically a disappointment for a number of reasons. C-Webb WAS great, but he also slightly underachieved in his college and pro career.
Interestingly, Chris Webber's career individual stats are better than KG, Duncan and Dirk's.
I look forward to these every week... You guys HAVE to keep this format, even after things return to normal. Just pick a random game from the 90s every week.
Michael has three colossal shots in this game: 1) the three to take the lead in the third after Rodman has taken over the boards and energized the crowd 2) the hanging fade along the baseline in the 4th 3) the layup in the final minute after breaking the double-team
MJ was the antithesis of empty stats and unimportant shots. The timing of his scoring often swung the game for the Bulls.
Please Please upload Chris Webber Book of Basketball Episode
Russillo's podcast.
Taken over by Bill.
Honestly i didn't know it was Ryen's podcast until the end.
By the way, that trade for Mark Price costing them a 1st round pick in 1996. It ended up being for the 12th pick in that draft, they took Vitaly Potapenko. The next pick was Kobe.
Chris Webber should be in Hall fo Fame. He had a career just as good or better than Grant Hill.
the crazy thing is, webber also never gotten better on broadcasting games.
moresources the worst
All this 90's basketball content is great
Let's go! These are better than regular season analysis.
22:40 DIRK
same thing I said
I was screaming it
Yea. That really bothered me.
2001 Dirk was just breaking out and not an all star
Jermine Oneal was a beast
We need more re-drafts
CWebb put the Kings on the map...Unfortunately, it was the same time of Shaq, Kobe and Duncan.
Still should have beaten the Lakers in 02. Still feels wrong to this day.
I think bibby taking the big shots at the end of games took the pressure off cwebb
And the time of horribly crooked referees...
The 2002 refs were unstoppable.
These podcasts make my day everyday lmao
Dear God I needed this, thank you
We were so hype in Philly when Webber joined Iverson in '05. Still burns that nothing came of it.
To be fair, that was after his horrific knee injury in the 2003 WCSF against Dallas. He didn’t come back until January or so the next season and was not the same. That was the version that Philly got at the trade deadline in ‘05. He was still a solid jump shooter, decent passer, but nowhere near his prime with the Kings. If that injury had not happened, there’s a really good chance the Kings beat Dallas in 6 in the second round in ‘03 (because the Kings/Mavs series went the full 7 without him), beat the Spurs in the WCF (in 6 or so; would’ve been a hard-fought series), and beat the Nets in the Finals in 5 or 6 (I think the Nets would’ve been easier for the Kings than they were for the Spurs). Now, that probably means that the Kings wait to break up their core longer than they did, and Webber stays with the team until near the end of a longer version of his career. I wish we could’ve had that instead. The Kings were the true champs in 2002, and deserve to be known as such. They were true contenders for the next two seasons after, and deserve to be known as such. They are the greatest team to never win a title in NBA history (due to shady refereeing in the WCF against the Lakers, who the league wanted to win due to them generating better ratings and making more money overall), and should be known as such. Chris Webber should be in the Hall of Fame, and it’s a damn shame that he hasn’t been voted in yet.
This is an amazing podcast I'm thinking about the bullets they could have had Kevin Garnett. As a kid the bullets frontline never made any sense
Listening to them talking about their college days is surprisingly more entertaining than listening to them talk about sports.
I enjoyed it
The end of the podcast was just awesome.
"Roof looks!"
Ground Round. Burlington, VT. I miss it. The best. Their wings were amazing. Glad y'all mentioned it.
These analyses of old games are amazing. Great job.
0:56 had that incident in the second round did not happen between the Knicks and the Heat, we might have seen one of the best CF of all time when the 97 Knicks went up against the 97 Bulls because they had Larry Johnson and Allan Houston now, so that would have been cool to see
KD always had that silent 40+ games. They were not ball hogs. They're just efficiently choosing their shots.
So many interesting potential RewatchaBulls for the 98 season....I kind of hope they do Game 3 of the NBA Finals where they beat the Jazz 96-54. There's all sorts of comedy elements, and incredible defense obviously by the Bulls. Do that one!
one of the late 90s Bulls greatest moments. Holding Malone, Stockton Utah to 54. The 98 Bulls @ that.
The end of that was phenomenal.
House adds great balance to this dynamic. Without him, Simmons and Russillo tend to feed off of each other's edgy, intellectual takes a bit much, forming a kind of feedforward loop. House isn't nearly as insightful from historical and analytical frameworks, but he adds a simpler, more intuitive "heart" that tends to fall between the cracks in these pods. Great stuff either way, though. Love you three.
What the hell are you saying homie hahaha? 😂🤣
In Webbers defense, when he poked that ball out of bounds after MJ beat him and was doing the "Not on me" head shaking thing Simmons was bitching about, the score was like 22-21, so it wasnt that ridiculous of him. I, too, was very good at that wrap around- arm swing-poke the ball out after getting beat. I had long quick arms and hands but slower feet and Im 6'4" so guards would cross me or dribble hard to one side and it got to the point that I would actually kind of bait people into beating me to their right and already be swinging my arm around to poke ball out of bound or to the post help defender rotating off to help me, My boy Chris and I used to do that all the time playing pick up when we were both at UNC.(99-2003) In the same way I would slow down chasing a break away dribbler giving them a sense of confidence they could make the right hand layup and as soon as they crossed 3point line and started their two step layup motion I would take two huge steps and honestly 80% of the time either pack their shit out of bounds or pin it on the back board. My absolute favorite bball associated sound is getting your full hand cleanly on someones layup and absolutely destroying their layup 30 feet out of bounds and the reaction that would get from bystanders. Ahhh..to be young again... Alas....no mad, amigos....great Pod fellas, love when House joins.
Post Edit: Speaking of Webber: Time Out Chicken on UNC campus (Franklin Street) was our late night food place (and Gumbys Pizza) and I used to crack up everytime we went in there and the HUGE Photo of C-Webb calling TO in 1993 NCAA Final on the wall. I too loved the (Jalen Rose mainly)Fab 5 (and The Orangemen ((Go John Wallace & Lawrence Moten!!)) in HS and never would have thought I would end up at UNC when I was watching that game live at 12 or however old I was. Bill is right...Webber is a huge disappointment and a HOF. And from what Ive seen from hia actions concerning his UM days, a total bitch.
they're right about rodman being playyyyed out and I'm a rodman stan, and thank god for joe house for bringing it back to the basketball at the end of the conversation because rodman was so god damn important in stretches of these 3 seasons cuz they faced so many teams with important post presenses... also, the offensive rebounding of this team was insane w him... so fun going back to these games
The Triangle offense isn't designed for one guy to pound the ball for ten seconds before shooting, get fouled, turning it over, or fishing for an assist. That's why Jordan doesn't seem to be hogging it on offense compared to Harden and Westbrook.
You can't leave Rodman open without the ball, because hes already too difficult to control on the offence glass.
With the ball you could sag, but when he does a hand off and screens the receivers man, the big sagging off Rodman can't challenge the guy receiving the hand-off. Which in this game is an open Jordan mid range jumper.
The waiter opened the game for the bulls vs sonics gm1. MJ had a great gm7 vs pacers 98. But kukoc saved the bull that game. Trust me. Watch it
It's funny that Bill makes the comment about playing with Marv Albert's prostate, since this game happened around the time when the story came out about Marv's sexual assault allegations (which some he plead guilty to), with Marv once being found in panties and a garter belt. I listened to a lot of Howard Stern during that time, so it was constantly mocked - otherwise, I wouldn't even remember any of that.
Chris Webber, was one of the most talented players I have seen, He was awesome in Sacramento.
It’s crazy Rod Strickland never made an all star team. Also crazy that Yao Ming is a first ballot hofer for playing eight seasons, while Webber might not ever get in with much better numbers
He didnt make the all star team because the 90s was extremely loaded and locked down at certain positions. Yet, todays era suppose to be was more talented. Just look at the all star teams back then and all the players left off them.
Shout out to the Papa Gino’s reference, man I miss when it was really good
Is Russillo the voice of Brian from family guy?
Next time Bill is talking about the 90s Bulls versus the 80s Celtics and he’s focusing on offense, someone really has got to remind him of what he is saying in this video and the previous video about what the Bulls do on defense.
39:20 House's response is every wizards fan and we are him.
Calbert Cheaney = Rodney Hood
I had the same thought while rewatching this game lol
Julian Mihdi crazy
Scottie is defending Webber well. If he played in today's NBA, he is a bigger Draymond Green who can score.
Oliver g More like a rich mans iggy draymond didn’t have pippens athletic ability and agility
I guess we just saw the clippers trade they’re big time second year player Shai gilgeous Alexander in pg trade but ya that is looking like the exception
back in ‘78, clippers who were the braves at the time, traded adrian dantley after his rookie year and he won rookie of the year too lmao
They are going to die on that Rodman take and nobody is fucking with them on it 😂😂😂
the marv albert take is hilarious
95% of Bill's analysis in 2020: "He just WASNT..... sorry, he just WASNT" Also applies to "He just WAS... like if you watch it, he just WAS" That's why they pay you the big bucks!
Top 6 or 7 for that time......
I remember watching some of the house eats series on Grantland back in like 2012-13ish and man these guys look 20 years older lol
Kukoc ran very hot and cold. He could score 20 with 5, 3-pointers or go 1-9 from the field and get lit up on defense. If they watch Game 7 vs Indiana in 98, Kukoc was a killer in that game.
And he usually shot better when the Bulls played at home.
Yeah, he did!
An 18 foot jumpshot isn't close to the worst shot in basketball. Larry Bird and Jordan were murder in the midrange.
Thomas Crown III facts midrange isn’t terrible long 2 twos that are like a step inside the 3 pt line are.
@@KimarKurosaski A shot is only terrible when the person taking them can't make them.
Thomas Crown III I personally disagree if your in the corner and taking a 20 ft jumper literally take one step back and shoot a 3 it’s just good basketball.
@@KimarKurosaski Bird beat the Hawks, in Atlanta from the corner, one step inside the 3pt line. The play KC Jones drew up in the '85 Finals in game 6 for Bird, was a flare to the corner one step inside the 3pt line. A shot is only bad when the person taking it can't make them. If you don't need a 3, that shouldn't be your focus, taking a good, makeable shot is good basketball, regardless of where it is on the floor.
Thomas Crown III you’re talking about basketball over 35 years ago the game has changed. In the modern day bird would’ve been shooting 7-8 3s a game bird can make a shot from anywhere on the floor but if you’re taking a shot with your heel touching the 3 pt line then your shooting from 3 pt range without the reward of the extra point. That should tell you to either step back and shoot the 3 or step forward to 15-18 foot range and shoot the high percentage midrange jumper. It’s statistically been proven the 18+ midrange is by far the most inefficient shot in basketball with worst shooting percentages than 3pt shots.
Slight push back on the Jordan never seeming to hog the ball argument...when you only rewatch his very best games, of course it's going to seem like all of his shots were justified.
Jordan did not bog hog. His shots came within the offense. The Bulls had no other one-on-one player. Iverson ball-hogged so does Harden and Westbrook. Lebron stat-pad in the last few minutes of a game.
The only times you could really say he was ball hogging is those early Doug Collins years when the supporting cast was BAD. Collins offense was give the ball to MJ and everyone get out his way. And even then he would still rack up a lot of assists
they gotta give the rodman thing a rest
Connor Mariott right
straight up. There is nothing they can do to sway our opinion on Rodman lol. No matter how they frame it, repeat it, etc....
to be fair to rodman like ben wallace he may score 4 points but its going to matter and he will get you 15 rebs and play great defense so...
Asmosis Jones imagine Rodman on that 05 pistons team coming off the bench they would’ve definitely won game 7 against the spurs
I still have the remains of a pair of mid-high Air Flight Lights.
This one was pretty good
Bill: the 18’ jumper is the worst shot in basketball
CJ McCollum: but I’m getting paid
42:10 it's because Rodman is a FANTASTIC passer. Highly underrated.
"Assist numbers" - somebody
There is no hockey assist in the NBA.
Great Podcast. My comeback to the Jordan never looked rush would be like well who else was gonna take that shot. Basically just him or Scottie, and the team was so well formed that literally every other whole defensively and rebounding wise was taken care of. Not taking anything from Jordan's greatness but he was always and almost exclusively the best offensive weapon on his team. That's not been the case for the last little bit of Lebron's career. Unlike harden where, they got some serious defense issues and there is no structure cuz he just does what he wants. In terms of pure roster construction its hard to imagine a team that's ever been better constructed than those bulls teams.
29:27 ben wallace sighting!
The last 7 minutes are the best part
43:30
Yeah it’s pretty hard to get like 10 offensive rebounds but only around 5 points.
No offense, but House isn't in the same league in basketball deconstruction as Simmons/Russillo.
You guys not doing anymore re drafts?
The Wiggins deal did happen tho, #1 overall pick traded before he even played.
And it turns out trading him was the right move
Part of the era in which a team basically picked their best retired player available to be their head coach. Plenty of ex player coaches now but a lot more of them are of like the Kerr or Walton type. Like their coaching hire certainly has something to with their ex player status but they aren’t being hired because they were these great players.
I think the bullets had an impressive win against the Lakers earlier in that April but I might be mistaken
16:38. Thought y'all were going to talk about Jamison. Legler (I think) said Richmond had the worst attitude he has ever seen in his career in Washington.
C web was a standout power forward in an era of outstanding power forwards. Shame he’s not in the HOF
agreed. He was a HOF talent. I used to love watching him play for the Kings.
He will be
Cool!!
Huge point about MJ scoring within the flow of the offense people dont understand that , he still averaged like 31ppg in the 90s and it was all in the triangle within the flow of the game
Dennis rodman is an all time great. But 97 is tge start of the decline. But his decline is still better than a whole lot of people
Martin Man people forget he was like 35 in 97 he was the oldest guy on the team still out hustling guys
55 points on mid-range jumpers, wow
ReWiz-a-Bullets
Totally forgot how Rodman used to pass up wide open layups lmao
Bill killing Chris Webber absolutely hilarious 😂😂😂
I agree though Webber underachieved imho
If the Washington bullets would’ve gotten Jalen Rose, you just gotta let Ray Jackson and Jimmy King be 11th and 12th man on the bench for the hell of it
Bill said it best about Webber WAY more talent than actual production...on skill Webber could have been the greatest PF of all time, but mentally never locked and would shy away from physicality...Mentally not as sharp as he likes to present himself. Just not all there...all those gifts and no ...stats aren't so impressive either...low scoring and low shooting percentage and rebounding in too many spots...I was upset on surface at him not being a HOF, but him being on the bubble makes more sense...
Also was his injuries due more to that immaturity and not being a focused professional or bad luck? That's where guys like KG, Duncan, Malone, even Dirk have to lauded as they put that work in and maintained their bodies through the runs
10+ 20ppg seasons is hard to piss on tho...but 5 allstar games in 14 years?? Tough...he should have been an all time great
Pfft i loved Rodman. Of course I was middle school-high school. My teammates always argued over who was 33 and 23 but I always picked Rodman because dude played my position and was just filled to the brim with energy, competitiveness and hustle but was also deeply cerebral when it came to defense and it was such an inspiration. I was probably the shortest 4 in the state and always got assigned the tallest toughest dude on defense because I revelled in the challenge like my hero did.
I copied every dirty trick and move Rodman had like rarely boxing out because the taller guy could just pluck the ball from above me anyway so I'd tie them up so if they went for it they'd tumble then get the rebound myself as I disengaged my length. Great offense always beats great defense so my goal was to just make great scorers pay for every single bucket like Rodman did webber this game. Get in their head. If I ended a game without getting at least 3 fouls I felt like I wasn't trying hard enough.
Loved Rodman and never minded the off the court crap either, truly one of my role models because it was obvious he just wanted to be happy and had a much deeper side that people didn't get to see if they got caught up in the theatrics.
I see Bill got an illegal quarantine haircut
Boomshakalaka!
96-97 3rd QTR was absolutely no different than the 8 years before.. They destroyed everyone in the 3rd Qtr for a decade... you could basically set your watch to Gary Glitter coming on mid-way thru it to the opposing team calling a time out after getting completely blitzed out of half-time...
45:36 😂😂😂
Thank you for that time stamp, that was hilarious.
Tracy Murray would have been a star in the modern NBA.
22:36 Bill: "Duncan, Garnett, and uh... tail end of Karl Malone... Who was the other great forward?"
Bill, you're missing Dirk Nowitzki... It's ok, you didn't exactly write "the book of basketball" or anything.
Garnett closer was sam cassell and later became paul pierce
Different situation but the clips traded SGA after his first year and he was really promising like Wallace
Good example, but I still think it's super different. If they had traded Wallace for someone of the caliber as PG it's a different question.
Darrin Everage SGA?
@@swpdisciple Shae Gilgeous Alexander
So marv was MJs Skip Bayless. They didn’t have the shows on consistently but it was live at the game
Webber was a straight up G.
It was Dirk bill, Dirk.