My CRAZY 36 Key 5x3 Moonlander Layout (But It Works!)

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  • Опубликовано: 14 июн 2024
  • This video is a walkthrough of my new 36 key layout (almost 30%!) that I'm using on my Moonlander split ergonomic mechanical keyboard. It also adapts well to the Planck EZ and of course any other customisable mechanical keyboard.
    I actually removed all the keys that I'm not using from the keyboard here which is a pretty interesting way to set up the Moonlander. The advantage of having the keys removed completely is that it avoids the chance of your fingers hitting the keys accidentally as well as making it easier to 'find' the keyboard and have your fingers land on the right keys.
    There were several failed attempts that came before this in my pursuit of avoiding having any key more than a single place away from the home keys, including for the thumbs.
    Most of the issues arise from setting up a layout and then finding some kind of keyboard shortcut isn't possible. This layout, at last, doesn't seem to have any of these compromises.
    It still supports all the common use-cases like command clicking, various multi-modifier keyboard shortcuts and has lots of neat productivity boosting features added in too like super fast access to awkward keyboard shortcuts like force quit and copy screen selection etc.
    Here is my keyboard layout featured in this video:
    configure.ergodox-ez.com/moon...
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Комментарии • 223

  • @BenVallack
    @BenVallack  Год назад

    Subscribe to my new custom keyboards channel! www.youtube.com/@BenVallacksKeyboards

  • @drashna
    @drashna 3 года назад +22

    I like having the outside column, honestly, but yeah, love the small layout.

  • @cloudyphiz
    @cloudyphiz 3 года назад +2

    Many thanks Ben, excellent video and this gives me some great ideas on how to simplify my layout (even though I'll likely keep the number keys in place)

  • @999samus7
    @999samus7 3 года назад +17

    just wanted to say Ben, I see this video as a birthday gift from you to me, great, I didn't know you were going to come up with a 30% configuration so fast, I'm pretty sure this is not the final form, really liked it.

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  3 года назад +1

      Happy Birthday!

    • @999samus7
      @999samus7 3 года назад +1

      @@BenVallack thank you :)

  • @Failware_
    @Failware_ 3 года назад +9

    Something I have done and recommend you to try, is to move the pinky keys down by one row. So in your case that'd mean '/' goes down, 'o' takes its place, and backspace moves as well (same on the left).
    The home position of your right pinky would follow the 'o' and now it should be possible to align your keyboard with your arms and still reach the backspace nicely.
    It's certainly worth a try.

    • @dflynn
      @dflynn 3 года назад +1

      I'm with you, as I share here: ruclips.net/video/h5PwhzI_6PI/видео.html

  • @sirfer206
    @sirfer206 3 года назад +10

    This is some great work.

  • @TheStereoField
    @TheStereoField 3 года назад +4

    This is nuts! I just got my moonlander yesterday and it’s my first split, and first non-staggered kb. I gotta say it’s been a HUGE challenge but you’re giving me some great ideas. My main issue is that I switch between a MacBook Pro for work and a custom gaming pc for play. I’d like to be able to use the moonlander for both but it’s really tough to come up with layouts that work for both

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  3 года назад +4

      Ah yeah interesting, I'm sure you'll pull it off. A lot of people set up a dedicated gaming layer that you can switch to. So you could do that and then have your mac-centric stuff on normal layers.

  • @mathisve
    @mathisve 3 года назад +2

    That is insane, love it!

  • @gorudonu
    @gorudonu 3 года назад +1

    good video I'm also inti ergo keyboards. Got a question though, have you tried miryoku layout? Seems like what you're looking for, I'm also tempted to try it but havent tried yet

  • @MeriaDuck
    @MeriaDuck Год назад

    Have just ordered one. If I'd go this route, I'd probably 3d print squares to ose rhe openings, which would be translucent, letting the led light shine through without blinding. Inspiring!

  • @jeffreyseverino4486
    @jeffreyseverino4486 3 года назад +5

    I tried using tap dance but the delay was way too hard to dial in to the right timing so I couldn’t cope with it. Maybe as I get more comfortable with the moon lander I’ll give the ctrl+key combo a try one key at a time

  • @brianfox340
    @brianfox340 2 года назад +3

    This was a great video, and an interesting concept. I would love a video showing older versions to get both ideas of problems driving changes, and to get ideas about a slightly less aggressively minimalist layout. While I have the utmost respect for such an extreme design, I finished my first programmable keyboard last week, and I'm not ready for such a drastic shift from my 104 key safe space. That said, I am already making changes to my layout with ideas from this video.

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  2 года назад +6

      It never stops heh! I have made some more changes since this too so a new layout ideas video would be great. Will see what I can do.

    • @jeffreyjflim
      @jeffreyjflim Год назад

      @@BenVallack would that be ruclips.net/video/WA_GUYS8UJg/видео.html ?

  • @MicCheckOneTwo12
    @MicCheckOneTwo12 3 года назад +5

    You clearly need a Corne Keyboard. I've been through dozens of keyboards and I landed on the corne specifically for the reasons you've described in this post. Also, you can make a Corne Split Keyboard fully wireless if you have the DIY mentality. Layers and all that good stuff work with ZMK. I have to hand it to ZSA though, the tap dance features are great!

  • @BlueyMcPhluey
    @BlueyMcPhluey 3 года назад

    very innovative, lots of good ideas here for Windows as well

  • @echonuim
    @echonuim 3 года назад +1

    Man this keyboard is fantastic. Glad I found them through you. Got mine last month and have to say it is amazing for both gaming and general productivity. My rsi issues are near gone after having switched. Also what made you go to colemak?

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  3 года назад

      I hit a ceiling with Workman. Will look at this in another video too.

  • @disastrousemouse
    @disastrousemouse 2 года назад +1

    Tap dance seems great for em dashes (a three key chord on Mac), cut/paste/copy can all go as long presses on the corresponding key. I… think I need this keyboard.

  • @shogun0420
    @shogun0420 3 года назад +3

    This is a great idea for a layout, thanks for the demonstration! I tried it on my own moonlander though, and I get a very noticeable delay on single tap for all tap-dance keys... Have you noticed the same? Is there some trickery in the advanced settings that can make it better? Obviously I could reduce the hold time significantly but that would cause a lot of clashes between hold and tap.

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  3 года назад +3

      Thanks! Stick with it, it's super strange initially but I found my brain just learnt to ignore it!

  • @GHSTGHST
    @GHSTGHST 3 года назад +9

    EDIT: You need a Minidox! They should make a Minidox EZ.

  • @RobertGardnerEngineer
    @RobertGardnerEngineer 2 года назад +2

    As a question, why not have tap dance on the shift, so you have enter normally, and shift on hold? Given that you usually want to hold it for shift anyway?
    Also, I really love this idea, but man, I swap from windows to mac a lot, and it drives me batty that everything that's cmd+ on one is ctrl+ on the other.

  • @alfredomenezes8814
    @alfredomenezes8814 Год назад +4

    Hi! Thanks very much for this video, it helped me a lot to plan my own 36 keys layout!
    Could you make an updated video of your layout? I'm sure it must have changed substantially since this video :)

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  Год назад +3

      Hope you’re sitting down 😆 ruclips.net/video/5RN_4PQ0j1A/видео.html

  • @goxcpre
    @goxcpre 3 года назад +2

    I'm using a 34 key ergo board called Le Chiffre. You should check out some 40% ergo boards

  • @Matonias
    @Matonias 3 года назад

    Thanks for this man, amazing

  • @michielnuyts7187
    @michielnuyts7187 3 года назад

    Great video! Subscribed :)
    Would this work well in a QWERTY layout? What layout do you use in the video?

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  3 года назад

      Thanks! Yeah it should convert to qwerty fine I think. I switched to colemak :)

  • @Quot_
    @Quot_ 3 года назад +1

    If you are ever looking for a new keyboard to review, I would love to hear your thoughts on the CRKBD keyboard. I'm considering it as my next keyboard, and it seems pretty similar to what you've made here. I'm going to have to give your layout a try to see if that's something I enjoy. It looks very comfortable.

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  3 года назад +1

      It's on my radar for sure!

  • @the_adamtaylor
    @the_adamtaylor 2 года назад +2

    Great video! This gave me a ton of inspiration for my new moonlander. Question though: Can you make the “Hold” action for Tap Dance NOT repeat? For instance, if I hold “T” I’m going to get tens of new tabs 😂

    • @liviucomercial
      @liviucomercial 2 года назад +1

      I’m interested in this too… This feature would be nice, cause at the moment, 06.19.2022 there is not…

    • @TsuharesuLuciel
      @TsuharesuLuciel 3 месяца назад

      My thoughts as well.

  • @marcello4258
    @marcello4258 3 года назад +1

    we need the Ben Vallack edition.. I was still thinkin well the Planck as a split would be perfect.. and here we go..

  • @mbarton98
    @mbarton98 3 года назад

    Nice. I will have to check out the layout. I missed when you switched from Workman to Colemak. I’ve been using the PlankEZ with Coleman from the start and after your tap dance video, tried assigning brackets, braces, parentheses to the same keys. I’m hesitant to assign q and w hold to perform cmd versions as if I type a little slow I could close or quit something and lose data. I’m liking the c,v,x, and a hold versions though so I may try more.

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  3 года назад +1

      Yeah Q and W is a bit risky. Switched to Colemak-DHm as I felt like I was hitting a ceiling with Workman. Switched to it at the same time as adopting this layout actually.

  • @dflynn
    @dflynn 3 года назад +1

    Love your videos. Thanks for sharing this. I couldn't find your layout at Oryx; would you be willing to make it public there?

    • @dflynn
      @dflynn 3 года назад +1

      Just saw the link below your video, thanks!

  • @dilipkrishnan3713
    @dilipkrishnan3713 3 года назад +1

    @ben how did you get the chorded keys to be configured to get you to layer 3? Moonlander newbie here. Great ideas and Great layout BTW!

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  3 года назад +2

      It‘s not quite a chord, just that the second key takes you to layer 3, the first key puts you in the layer where that key does that. However, check out this which avoids they on-hold layer keys altogether: ruclips.net/video/WA_GUYS8UJg/видео.html

  • @defipunk
    @defipunk 2 года назад

    Thanks for posting all these. I'm a new subscriber, but I am wondering what you do for a living? As an active programmer / design doc writer with some keyboard-induced back issues, I'm looking for improvements continuously.

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  2 года назад +1

      Programmer too. I am constantly trying to prevent and limit health issues too. I am exploring treadmills/cycle desks at the moment so will definitely share my findings. I’m pretty happy I’m not going to get any issues from my keyboard now though, I hover type so no pressure points and have drastically reduced finger movement. Take a look at some of my more recent videos.

  • @KOST657
    @KOST657 3 года назад +4

    @Ben, where did you get this delete, control and alt key caps 😮 they’re gorgeous ! I need them for my moonlander!

    • @finndriver1063
      @finndriver1063 3 года назад

      Could be wrong, but I think they're from the Planck EZ set

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  3 года назад +2

      Yeah I stole them from my Planck EZ - they sell spare full sets of the Planck keycaps if you want them!

    • @rfragoso1000
      @rfragoso1000 2 года назад

      @@BenVallack I don’t see that option anywhere :(

  • @maxwellclarke1862
    @maxwellclarke1862 2 года назад

    cool having the shoutout in the new moonlander hole covers announcement (the zip kit)

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  2 года назад

      They are sending me the kit so I will be doing a video on that soon!

  • @hueykablooey9825
    @hueykablooey9825 3 года назад

    Very interesting layout! Looking forward to trying it on my Moonlander when it gets here. I’m curious, would there be any advantage to removing the legs and thumb clusters completely and then swapping left and right boards and mappings? I know you’ll lose the tenting but might get the thumb row a little tighter? Plus might make the whole board a little more portable?

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  3 года назад

      This is an amazing idea! I've just set it up here, typing this on it now. configure.zsa.io/moonlander/layouts/VYNpM/rdlBb/0 The thumb keys are better like this I think. Might have to make a video on this!!

    • @hueykablooey9825
      @hueykablooey9825 3 года назад

      Nice, I would love to see a video! It might help curb my curiosity while I wait for my Moonlander to show up. Is removing the thumb cluster rather easy? Maybe you could show the steps to completely strip down the Moonlander? I can’t seem to find any videos on removing the thumb clusters.

    • @MarijnvdZaag
      @MarijnvdZaag 2 года назад

      🤯

  • @PeterElroy
    @PeterElroy 3 года назад +2

    Interested in mapping this to an Ergodox EZ layout and give it a shot. I don't think there's a script for that, but hope to get around to it soon.

    • @iandunn206
      @iandunn206 3 года назад

      Did you get around to it? I'm also interested in that.

  • @MarkusBurrer
    @MarkusBurrer 3 года назад +1

    Did something similar. I build a core keyboard and add additional keys just for convenience

  • @pkfilseth
    @pkfilseth 2 года назад

    Hi, Ben, love your videos! Question ... am I missing it, or is there no question mark key in your layout?

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  2 года назад

      Thanks! I think I was using the shifted forward slash for that on this one.

  • @metalnwood
    @metalnwood 3 года назад

    I am also going through configuring my new keyboard which is the ergodox EZ. I am getting used to and liking the homerow mod which puts win/alt/shift/ctrl
    on the ASDF keys and mirrors it on the jkl; Like anything it takes time to get used to but certainly helps avoid the little finger jumpting all around the place. Now I suggest we both find a youtube video on how to better organise our inbox

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  3 года назад +1

      Haha!! Yeah that is one of those things I have to fix. The issue is it's faster to ignore an email than delete it! Interesting idea with home row mods!

  • @nilshaberstroh2705
    @nilshaberstroh2705 3 года назад

    My Moonlander is coming tomorrow 🤩 So this is another fantastic video of yours to collect ideas.
    I wonder about two things though:
    1. What kind of letter-key layout is this. This is not workman anymore.
    2. Do you use vim? And if so, how do you map regular homerow-movement (normally hjkl) keys and ESC?

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  3 года назад +1

      Thanks for your comments.
      1. Yeah I switched to Colemak DHm as I seemed to hit a ceiling with Workman.
      2. Yep. This is basically the gist of mapping it for VIM. This started off as my Workman maps so it might still need more work for Colemak.
      noremap n j
      noremap e k
      noremap m h
      noremap i l
      noremap k n
      noremap h o
      noremap o i
      noremap j m
      noremap K N
      noremap gn gj
      noremap ge gk
      noremap gm gh
      noremap gk gn
      noremap gh ge
      noremap gl go
      noremap gN gJ
      noremap gY gH
      noremap gK gN
      noremap gH gE
      noremap gL gO

    • @nilshaberstroh2705
      @nilshaberstroh2705 3 года назад +1

      @@BenVallack Awesome! That's really handy to know. Thank you very much for sharing.

  • @Lars-ju9pw
    @Lars-ju9pw 3 года назад

    this layout looks like it would work well on the Corne 42 key keyboard, which adds the outside row to the left of the home row, but otherwise mimics your physical layout.
    mine is coming soon, I was thinking about tackling workman, while also learning to work with a dramatically reduced number of keys.

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  3 года назад +1

      I have switched from Workman to Colemak DHm now. Seems much nicer to use and reduces same finger bigrams compared to Workman. I have a 36 key Corne on my desk which is a very cool setup, videos to come. Built for me by www.3dkeeb.com - really top notch service making custom keyboards much easier to get hold of.

  • @AdamHillikerLikesRobots
    @AdamHillikerLikesRobots 3 года назад

    This looks great; I wonder if there are some blanks you can apply to the empty switch areas. Like a switch base without the box...

    • @Cons-Cat
      @Cons-Cat 3 года назад

      That's what I did with my 30% layout on Planck. Got blank flat keys from F10. They look great next to Cherry profile keys I actually press.

    • @MarijnvdZaag
      @MarijnvdZaag 2 года назад

      They sell a Zip Kit now, which includes smaller blank key caps

  • @tnksknt
    @tnksknt 3 года назад

    Hey, looks like you got some keycaps in addition to what comes standard with the Moonlander. What did you settle on? I did a look, but didn't find what you found.

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  3 года назад +1

      These are ones I stole from the Planck!

  • @ac27934
    @ac27934 2 года назад

    How do you do Ctrl-Shift-letter? This seems problematic with both of those modifiers assigned to the right thumb.

  • @ajmash9745
    @ajmash9745 Год назад

    love it, love it, love it but did you miss the hash key?

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  Год назад

      Should be on there somewhere - might need an alt key though.

  • @asthmaticrhino
    @asthmaticrhino 2 года назад +1

    up next: Ben tries a ten key keyboard and learns ASETNIOP

  • @LeeKennedy_LJK
    @LeeKennedy_LJK 2 года назад

    Just waiting for my moonlander to arrive. Have you changed your layout since making this video?

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  2 года назад

      Just a bit 🤪 ruclips.net/video/5RN_4PQ0j1A/видео.html

  • @singingtree9862
    @singingtree9862 2 года назад

    Hey Ben, how do you remove the big red thumb buttons safely?

  • @phillipspc
    @phillipspc 3 года назад

    I'm curious how you deal with the input delay that is added by tap dance... is this just something you get used to? I found it very distracting from my brief testing (and then I promptly disabled it)

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  3 года назад +1

      I look at this in a bit more detail here: ruclips.net/video/pTMbzmf2sz8/видео.html basically though yeah quite easy to get used too, in fact I tested something else with it turned back off the other day it seemed really strange the other way around!

  • @xz55000
    @xz55000 3 года назад +1

    Are you considering getting a custom 36 key split keyboard?
    Also, are you using a similar layout on the planck?

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  3 года назад +2

      Yes (stay tuned) and yes. Switched the alt key for shift (due to not having the other thumb key) then pulled out all the others :)

  • @nssSmooge
    @nssSmooge 3 года назад

    Which one do you use as daily driver, which want do you prefer - Moonlander (split keyboard) or Planck. I got a very weak left pinky and ring finder (ulnar nerve damage, cannot use pinky and ringer finger that much or they grow more and more numb and cannot move with them till i rest), So i was thinking of getting a new keyboard with light linear switches. Split sounds great for the body and overall, but not sure if you can use PALM to press CTRL as you showed in your Planck review (I do it on my current keyboard all the time). PS i got small hands

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  3 года назад

      Moonlander for the fulltime work on a desk, Planck for use on iPad when in a car/away etc. But if you only had one and still needed it to be portable I think the Planck would work full time too. Yeah I'm moving towards lighter and lighter switches too. The palm pressing thing does seem easier on the Planck although not quite sure why! One thing you might want to explore is changing the layout to reduce pinky usage. i.e move backspace to a layer, and move Q to where comma is, Z to where full stop/(period) is etc. Custom layouts is where these things really get fun!

    • @nssSmooge
      @nssSmooge 3 года назад

      @@BenVallack Also with so few kes and use of layers, didnt you think of using some DIY keyboard like Gergo, lily etc.?

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  3 года назад

      I'm getting there :) I'm actually coming at all this in the pursuit of productivity (and reducing effort) so spending ages building and programming keyboards isn't really ticking the boxes. Although I'm sure it is fun! But, Corne and Gergoplex are very much on the horizon in pre-built form.

  • @jeelliovuscow5522
    @jeelliovuscow5522 2 года назад

    As you started down this rabbit hole, did you use any default layouts, websites, blogs, etc. as "research" for how you started? Or was the particular layout (outside of Colemak-DH) trial and error based on your own usage?

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  2 года назад

      The ZSA blog and newsletter are good for shared layouts to look at, they’re good for inspiration! Then yeah lots of trail and error!

    • @jeelliovuscow5522
      @jeelliovuscow5522 2 года назад +1

      ​@@BenVallack Signed up! Thanks. As I've started to think about where to put things (for letters I feel good with Colemak), I wanted to see how much I actually used certain symbols, numbers, and combos. I tracked my own key usage to see and it's kind of wild to see the data first hand. For me, the 8 Colemak under-finger, home-row, lower-case letters (a, r, s, t, n, e, i, o), plus , , and + account for 54% of all my keystrokes! (That's after tracking approximately 100K keystrokes during everyday, work + personal computer usage.) I was kind of blown-away by how much is accounted for by just those eleven items (plus, how much I'm app-switching/multi-tasking! Alas). I'm using the results to determine where I'll put certain symbols (e.g. "How much do I really use '_' versus '-' versus ") and whether they're "worthy" of base-layer placement, home-row placement on a layer, etc. github.com/Ga68/benign-key-logger

    • @majorhuman
      @majorhuman 2 года назад

      @@jeelliovuscow5522 Thanks for this!

  • @albaeivanp7493
    @albaeivanp7493 2 года назад

    Hi ben! Whats your favorite layout ?

  • @KimonFrousios
    @KimonFrousios 3 года назад

    The possibilities are pretty staggering if one is willing to forgo ease of transition between a custom-optimized ergo board and conventional ones!

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  3 года назад

      Yeah exactly, that‘s the bottom line.

  • @ar3568row
    @ar3568row 14 дней назад

    What's the layout you are currently using ?

  • @mbarton98
    @mbarton98 3 года назад

    I was looking at adapting this to the Planck, but the two thumb cluster keys you use would map to the single "space bar" on the Planck. I would probably make both those keys space/shift and forego the tap dance hold for Spotlight, to make switching to the Planck easier. You at least have a backup keyboard. I'm starting to realize that it will be painful if something happens to my one Planck considering how long it takes to get a replacement. I did notice that I had problems with the "space bar" being the hyper key with tap dance, but it works fine for the normal key programming with the dual function hyper and space as the command. I tried selecting shift in tap dance hold and adding the other modifiers, but there was a problem with the order of the key codes sent to the OS that did not look like a hyper key was pressed. I like the concept you are doing as I found it hard to leverage that bottom row of keys without moving my hands or worse looking at the keyboard. So restricting it to the three keys on each side is easy for my thumb to reach.

    • @demetrismina
      @demetrismina 3 года назад

      you could try this layout github.com/manna-harbour/qmk_firmware/blob/miryoku/users/manna-harbour_miryoku/miryoku.org#planck_mit
      some very interesting ideas in there.

    • @mbarton98
      @mbarton98 3 года назад

      I gave it a try with the Planck moving the ctrl and opt keys to the thumb positions, but I found I like them better on the home row where I could use the opposite hand. With Emacs and default bindings, I use ctrl and meta/opt a lot. Using the Oryx dual function keycode I can set all the modifiers on the home row. from inside out each hand gets alt, ctrl, cmd and shift. I kept the tap dance for copy, cut, and paste with the Colmak-dhm layout.
      Are you still palming the bottom corner keys like in your Planck video? I think if I do end up removing the need for the pinkie to stretch to the far column, I would use the layout @Demetris Mina mentioned and shift the keys towards the outside of the Planck to give more hand separation.
      Maybe you could do a video revisiting the Planck once you get the Moonlander dialed in.

  • @AngelCerveraClaudio
    @AngelCerveraClaudio 2 года назад

    Thanks

  • @bc4198
    @bc4198 Год назад

    I'm drawn to using a layout like yours for typing, then filling up the rest of the key spots with macros. That would suit my work well 🤔

    • @Ce_Lazca
      @Ce_Lazca Год назад

      I just got mine yesterday and my shoulders are thanking me already. Love my 60% keychron but posture and ergo make a difference as much as these awesome keymaps and layouts do

  • @Hendori3
    @Hendori3 3 года назад

    Very inspiring. Especially the tap dance with the cmd key. What I wonder however, did the tap dance mess up your typing? This looks very much like a mini dox keyboard

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  3 года назад +1

      It caught me out a bit at first but I increased the hold delay a bit and became aware not to linger quite quickly, haven't accidentally fired them for several days now.

    • @Hendori3
      @Hendori3 3 года назад

      @@BenVallack I would like to thank you again for this video. You inspired me to go to a 36 layout on my current preonic. I plan to build a new keyboard with 36 keys called the gergoplex. I didn't do what you suggested and use the tap dance feature, but I am using the combo's feature in qmk to execute common commands. I think it is less error prone. For instance I use 'op` for escape or 'qs' to make quotes and enter text in them. I think this isn't possible with oryx, but qmk is quite powerful, but programmer heavy

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  3 года назад +1

      You're welcome! I have a Gergoplex on its way too!

    • @Hendori3
      @Hendori3 3 года назад

      @@BenVallack did you order a kit? Or are you going to solder it yourself? I ordered a kit, so I wonder if I can do the soldering myself, but even that should be a nice challenge

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  3 года назад

      I almost went for the kit but decided I didn't have time for soldering! Let alone the fault finding etc when I mess it up! Def a good option if you have the skills though!

  • @sommeone
    @sommeone 3 года назад +1

    At this point why not buy a corne or GergoPlex board?
    (Oh, wait, you need custom cases for those if you want to tent them...)
    Still, could be something fun!
    Seriously though, great job with this!! Loved the video!

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  3 года назад +1

      Stay tuned :)

    • @sommeone
      @sommeone 3 года назад

      @@BenVallack Ooh, will do!

  • @GirdEmUp
    @GirdEmUp 3 года назад +3

    Time for you to build yourself a corne, Ben!

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  3 года назад

      Was very tempted but wanted to work without the side colomns.

    • @GirdEmUp
      @GirdEmUp 3 года назад

      @@BenVallack Did you know you can snap off the side columns of the corne pcb? This leaves you with the exact layout/number of keys you are working with now. The side columns are completely optional!

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  3 года назад

      @@GirdEmUp Ah no I didn't realise that!!! Very interesting.

    • @GirdEmUp
      @GirdEmUp 3 года назад

      @@BenVallack I started off with an ErgoDox EZ from ZSA, but 7 keyboards later, I'm clear down the rabbit hole. You seem like the kind of guy who might enjoy building your own keyboard, but if you'd rather not, I'd be happy to build you a custom keyboard and ship it over to you. Maybe you could even feature it in one of your videos.

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  3 года назад

      Can you drop me an email via the link in the about tab - lets chat about this a bit more, cheers!

  • @mvargasmoran
    @mvargasmoran 2 года назад

    I bought a Corne keeb :D
    I have something like this layout but I'm still on qwerty and no tap dance.

  • @yhevrah
    @yhevrah 3 года назад

    You should look into trying out Corne keyboard coupled with the Miryoku layout. It feels like that's the direction you're going into.

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  3 года назад +1

      Have one on my desk right now. Sent to me by a really amazing guy with a new custom keyboard website www.3dkeeb.com
      Miryoku does look interesting but it relies on home row mods which makes me very nervous, I can’t seem to get them working in a way that lets me type fast rolls.

    • @yhevrah
      @yhevrah 3 года назад

      @@BenVallack Oooh. I'm using a Lily58 pro with a rotary encoder (mapped to mouse scroll and media volume). I took inspiration to Miryoku but didn't quite end up exactly with it.
      Will you upload a video regarding Corne? I've been thinking of getting myself one as well. But I wanted to know what you think and in what way (layout, etc) you'd end up using it.
      I like your videos btw! Been watching since day 1. lol.

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  3 года назад +2

      @@yhevrah Yep definitely will do some videos on the Corne. Rotary encoder sounds cool! Awesome thanks for your comments!

  • @mvargasmoran
    @mvargasmoran 3 года назад +2

    OK Damn it! I'll subscribe... gosh..

  • @DanielASchaeffer
    @DanielASchaeffer 2 года назад

    Why did you choose Colemak over Dvorak?

  • @OlivierHubaut
    @OlivierHubaut 3 года назад

    Am I missing something or there is no mapping for the function keys? As a dev, I use them all the time on my Mac.

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  3 года назад

      Yeah I have never found a use for them - I would say another layer that you get to from my layer 2 - so it behaves like a modifier to turn the numpad keys into their f key equivalents, could work quite nicely in this layout.

  • @TheAntcubing
    @TheAntcubing 3 года назад +1

    Where do you get those alt/ctrl/backspace keys?

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  3 года назад +1

      Stole them from the Planck!

  • @sommeone
    @sommeone 3 года назад

    I mentioned a couple DIY boards, but I could actually 100% see you getting a corne-ish zen to replace your Planck EZ for on-the-go use, since it basically has this layout, is insanely portable, and has bluetooth! It uses low-profile (choc) switches, which actually fit a bit closer together than mx switches since they take less room on the board (and have slightly smaller keycaps to match!) The group buy (basically, the period where you can buy them) ends on March 31st, though!! Take a look soon if you're able to!

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  3 года назад

      Do you have a link?

    • @sommeone
      @sommeone 3 года назад

      @@BenVallack I do, but it seems like RUclips won't let me send it... Weird...
      Either way, if you google "lowprokb corne-ish zen" it should be the first result!

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  3 года назад

      @@sommeone That is so tempting! I already have a few new keyboards on their way to me so I will pass this time but it‘s an amazing looking thing!

    • @sommeone
      @sommeone 3 года назад

      @@BenVallack Fair enough! I felt like it fit the channel and your workflow pretty well, and would allow for an interesting discussion about layouts using the adjacent-key tap chords that become possible with close-set choc switches and light springs (If you look up gchoc switches, they're 20g switches that only work with low-profile boards, and they're super cool)
      That being said, they're very expensive and not super accessible (since they'll be sold out/unavailable by the time you make a video on them)… I'm personally not getting one because I'm literally building a choc-spaced corne board right now, so it would be a bit redundant (aside from the Bluetooth… Dang, that Bluetooth is impressive!)

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  3 года назад

      Yeah totally, I'll be looking at all that stuff when my Gergoplex arrives :)

  • @AdamPflug
    @AdamPflug 3 года назад

    I know it's a weird takeaway for this video... but where did you get the ctrl and alt keys that match? My moonlander didn't come with those. Stolen from the Plank?

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  3 года назад

      Yep :) They do sell the Planck keycaps separately too though.

    • @AdamPflug
      @AdamPflug 3 года назад

      @@BenVallack ah cool, I didn't realize they did - you just need to ask support ($50 + $20 for shipping though, ouch). Thanks!

  • @nathanhyland
    @nathanhyland 3 года назад

    What about repeating command keys? Eg command+d to scroll down on vim. I would imagine it might get a bit annoying waiting for the tap dance?

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  3 года назад +1

      I use ctrl+d in Vim - I don't think I have found any situations where I've needed to repeat any of the command keys yet but definitely something to keep an eye on.

    • @nathanhyland
      @nathanhyland 3 года назад

      Gotcha. Thanks Ben.
      Another q: have you thought about moving your pinky row down one since you have the space now? You talked about those issues with reaching keys. Maybe this will help.

  • @derekdwhite
    @derekdwhite 3 года назад

    I briefly had every key assigned to a tapdance function, but really didn't like the feel of letters appearing on screen on the upstroke rather than downstroke.

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  3 года назад

      Yeah it's really strange at first but now I don't even notice it. You definitely get used to it.

    • @derekdwhite
      @derekdwhite 3 года назад +1

      @@BenVallack that's really good to know! I'll have to give it another shot.

  • @Vreth6
    @Vreth6 3 года назад

    ZSA needs to make a moonlander with less keys 😍😍😍

  • @benjaminsgs5799
    @benjaminsgs5799 2 года назад

    I‘m trying to do something similar but one-handed (need one hand to hold the baby, pet the dog, use the mouse..) but i can‘t find any option with bluetooth. Koolertron makes small keyboards, that are even mechanical, but they need a cable.. do you know an affordable, small keyboard with at least 24 keys that has bluetooth and be connected to at least three devices?

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  2 года назад +1

      Yep, if you check out my latest video you can make one yourself with relative ease!

    • @benjaminsgs5799
      @benjaminsgs5799 2 года назад

      @@BenVallack oh nice! thank you

    • @benjaminsgs5799
      @benjaminsgs5799 2 года назад

      @@BenVallack i‘m afraid that‘s more than my skills and my time can offer as a first try. do you know another wireless solution? or something like a wireless planck?

  • @HK-xs9yg
    @HK-xs9yg 3 года назад

    Is it more ergonomic for the thumb to extend outward or inward?

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  3 года назад

      both feel pretty awkward to me, I basically want to have to move my thumbs the absoulte minimum distance away from their neutral position

    • @HK-xs9yg
      @HK-xs9yg 3 года назад

      @@BenVallack hmm interesting. Do you consider the key on the thumb cluster the neutral position? I asked that because I’m currently using the same layout as you but with 6x3 on the home rows instead of 5x3. I rest my thumb on the thumb cluster key and extending them inward for those two bottom keys feels kinda awkward. Didnt see many ppl talking about the ergonomics on the thumbs so wanted to bring that up. I know thats a pretty popular layout

  • @fddshasn
    @fddshasn 3 года назад

    How did you get alt keys, and other custom keys?

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  3 года назад

      Stole them from the Planck!

  • @RoamingAdhocrat
    @RoamingAdhocrat 2 года назад

    36 keys, and three of them are F.
    Respect.

  • @LadyTink
    @LadyTink 3 года назад

    they should make a smaller version of the moonlander

  • @DanMossa
    @DanMossa 3 года назад

    I'm curious as to how you go about using function keys?

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  3 года назад +1

      Personally I’ve never had a use for them so I left them out here. An alternative might be to recreate the numpad layer with all numbers along the home row and function keys along the top row.

  • @richardbagshaw929
    @richardbagshaw929 3 года назад

    I really like this but the command tab is clunky from what I can see, if I want to select a particular app by holding down tab and using the tap dance feature, it just scrolls through all my apps super quickly and I would need ninja like reflexes to land it on the app I want, I am still trying to evolve it though to see how I can fix that.

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  3 года назад +1

      Yeah that tap dance version is really just for the quick jump to last app use-case. To use the actual app switcher you can use the command key on that layer and tap tab as normal - however that is also pretty clunky as it's three keys. What I'm really trying to do is to use the dedicated app launcher keys (via Keyboard Maestro) for almost all of my app switching.

    • @richardbagshaw929
      @richardbagshaw929 3 года назад

      @@BenVallack everything else is near perfect though, it's a really interesting idea, my only other very slight issues were around the slight delay on all the keys because of the tap dance feature, really minor but I reckon I could get used to that. another one was when I press and hold W to close a tab, if I hold it too long it nukes all my tabs super fast hehe.
      My final issue is that it highlighted some bad habits in my VIM workflow, for example, if I hold HJKL down to move around a few lines or characters, it sends me into CMD HJKL
      Thanks for sharing this though, it's a super interesting concept that I might try and tweak a bit more for my own workflow

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  3 года назад +1

      Yeah I found all those issues too actually! Didn't take me long to iron them out though. Thanks for your comments!

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  3 года назад +1

      Did you see the other video I did on tap dance specifically?

    • @richardbagshaw929
      @richardbagshaw929 3 года назад

      @@BenVallack thanks for sharing, love your videos, keep up the amazing work. I have the ergodox ez, I want the moonlander but don't see much point with what I have at the moment.

  • @finnk1289
    @finnk1289 2 года назад +1

    Personally, I think a 42+ key layout is probably better for the average person, I'd never recommend this level of minimalism.
    My first ergo will have thumb and pinky mods, and 2 additional layers.
    If I make a 36ish key board for portability, I might do something super minimal, but will probably leave out essential keys to keep it simple.

  • @iandunn206
    @iandunn206 3 года назад

    Are you still using this layout today? If so, have you changed anything from the video?

    • @iandunn206
      @iandunn206 3 года назад

      Ah, it looks like there's a new version with some significant changes: ruclips.net/video/WA_GUYS8UJg/видео.html

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  3 года назад

      Yep that’s it, same basic layout but removing the on−hold layer toggles.

  • @BenVallack
    @BenVallack  3 года назад +8

    This works beautifully on the Planck too! ruclips.net/video/vv98LPMA7-M/видео.html

    • @bc4198
      @bc4198 Год назад

      Your split Planck setup is very compelling!

  • @SirFudge445
    @SirFudge445 3 года назад +1

    you might like the corne split keyboard

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  3 года назад

      Hoping to give one a go soon!

  • @MrSamucbr
    @MrSamucbr 3 года назад

    Hi man! why did yo switch from workman to colemak?

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  3 года назад

      It seemed like I was hitting a ceiling and I think it was because of the issues discussed here: www.reddit.com/r/Colemak/comments/j9pxcb/colemak_dh_vs_workman/

    • @PotentChr0nic
      @PotentChr0nic 3 года назад

      @@BenVallack my comment got marked as spam since it didn't get posted, probably because I included a link. But wondering what your thoughts are on Shai Coleman's own Colemak mod to reduce center column usage. Was it something you considered but decided to go with Mod-DH instead?

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  3 года назад +1

      @@PotentChr0nic This is news to me, I will check it out thanks!

    • @Cons-Cat
      @Cons-Cat 3 года назад +1

      Colemak DH is objectively more efficient that Workman by every well-regarded metric in the keyboard community.

  • @eric9964
    @eric9964 3 года назад

    I’m surprised you took off the other two thumb buttons on each side. I would prefer hitting those with my thumb over bringing my thumb inside

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  3 года назад

      I did actually try that - if I had the thumb cluster nearer I think it could work but felt like a bit of a stretch for me in full tent mode.

  • @chrisc8586
    @chrisc8586 3 года назад

    So when are you getting a Corne?

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  3 года назад +1

      With a bit of luck hopefully soon!

  • @_taste
    @_taste Год назад

    My reticence for doing something like this, especially the vim key bindings, is making it so you can’t use a normal keyboard.

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  Год назад

      Yep definitely a case of all in. I can’t use a normal keyboard at all now.

  • @ashtonwhitcomb3217
    @ashtonwhitcomb3217 3 года назад

    Are you going to saw off the unused key slots

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  3 года назад

      I wondered if that would work, is it possible?

  • @problem.solver
    @problem.solver 2 года назад

    DOES ANY ONE KNOW HOW TO SAVE CUSTOM MOONLAND ONLINE?

  • @youngwanify
    @youngwanify 3 года назад

    Nice keymap. don’t you need f1, f2, …, f12?

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  3 года назад

      Nope not needed them so far!

  • @dgaa1991
    @dgaa1991 3 года назад

    Ben Vallack, you need to put "moonlander" in the title :) How else should a non-subscriber with a moonlander keeb find this!

  • @masasmasas4799
    @masasmasas4799 2 года назад

    difficult to thumb key to 2byte language people , we need thumb key assign lang change

  • @foyrees
    @foyrees 3 года назад +1

    is that a 3rd party set of caps? my moonlander just came with the alphas and arrows....

    • @nathanhyland
      @nathanhyland 3 года назад +1

      He has a Planck as well

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  3 года назад

      Yeah I stole them from my Planck EZ - they sell spare full sets of the Planck keycaps if you want them!

  • @ruiyuliu4173
    @ruiyuliu4173 2 года назад

    Jesus, at this point you've basically installed VimOS on your Mac.

  • @Ati930804
    @Ati930804 3 года назад

    Take a look at Draculad keyboard = )

    • @BenVallack
      @BenVallack  3 года назад

      Oh boy, def love the look of the key positions on that one.

  • @ZergYinYang
    @ZergYinYang 2 года назад

    Just noticed you have 3 or more F keys... lol

  • @alij5668
    @alij5668 Год назад

    waste of space

  • @lifebarier
    @lifebarier 2 года назад

    This is just making things more difficult. Must be a mac thing - one button on mouse, one button on keyboard...