On a consistency basis, and on the basis of their rugby culture, they absolutely do. But for those individuals with a sky-high ceiling, I'd argue other countries do that better
@@alexorjerry They can have their say at any WC semi-final or URC final. The hosts have agreed to give them all the time they need before that games...........If they make it - Brian O discord.
Here is something to consider. So for the first ninety years of the Springboks, rugby was a "white" sport due Apartheid. People of colour could play it, but funding, coaching and facilities was a giant obstacle. With ±10% of our population playing, we set up an incredible rugby system that fed the most dominant team throughout the entire amateur era. No team, not even the All Blacks, was as dominant for as long as the Springboks were. The players we produced even then are S-tier; guys like Danie Gerber, Mannetjies Roux, Frik Du Preez, Naas Botha, Jan Ellis, Gerald Bosch etc. Then came the end of Apartheid and we had to make shift - black representation was mandated and therefore initiatives were started to make the sport more accessible. This unfortunately went hand in hand with some political meddling, stern quota requirements and whatnot...but by hook or by crook, we got systems in place in order to development black talent and push them towards the formidable system we've built. Players of colour in especially the Cape provinces and the Xhosa people have taken to rugby. So basically, take the 10% of the population that produced Danie Gerber and Naas Botha and then add another 20% of the population that produced the likes of Kolisi, Nche, Am, Paulse, Kolbe and Habana. Zulu, Tswana, Sotho etc are less developed in their rugby cycle, but they'll get there. If we could dominate the way we did with only 10% of our population... Engaging the other 90 to feed into our rugby conveyor is a rather frightening prospect.
The saddest thing about the political meddling is that it actually turned out to be a blessing in disguise. I remember the post 1995 teams that the Springboks fielded, from the lily white team that lost to the BI Lions in 1997 under Markgraaff to the sheer tokenism of later teams where the bare minimum of non-white players were included, mostly on the wing "where they could do the least damage". The forced inclusion made us look at the 'other 90%' and we have reaped some fantastic rewards as a result, but I strongly believe that if it wasn't for the quota system, we never would have heard of Bryan Habana, Kurt Lee Arendse, Lukhanyo Am, Siya Kolisi, to name a few, because there would be no reason to include them in the first place. With our attitude of resisting black inclusion in the first place, and by that I mean systems and coaching, we lost out on some great players who could potentially have played a lot more than they ever did; Kennedy Tsimba, Kaya Malotana, Gobani Bobo, Solly Tyibilika.. all ended up on the fringes but we had the attitude of preferring the bigger Afrikaans boys, especially those from historic rugby schools.
I was talking to an English bloke on Facebook a few days ago, and this was basically the same position I held, we are going to do some magnificent things in Rugby when the ground structures are accessible to most of our population, currently it's still not easy to even play barefoot rugga for a significant chuck of our populace, the moment we get that and the culture and traditions established, Rugby might end up being as big, if not bigger than footy in our country. The governance of our rugby is certainly more proffessional than those clowns at SAFA.
@@eoinh3816Football is by far the most popular sport in South Africa, you obviously aren’t South African. And 65 mil, with half of them who don’t know when they’re going to get their next meal is not the same thing as being a first world country with that population. The fact that South Africa are a third world country makes it way more impressive as well.
Springbok 2nd XV vs 1st XV in brackets, you may switch a few around but theyre similar quality. But this team absolutely could beat the ABs 1st XV 1. Kitshoff (Ox) 2. Marx (Mbonambi) 3. Koch (Malherbe) 4. Nortje (Eben) 5. Snyman (Mostert) 6. Kwagga (Siya) 7. Dixon (PSDT) 8. Louw (Wiese) 9. Williams (Reinach) 10. SFM (Pollard) 11. Mapimpi (Kolbe) 12. Esterhuizen (De Allende) 13. Am (Kriel) 14. Moodie (Arendse) 15. Fassi (Willie / Willemse)
100% Credit to Rassie, but our 1st and second team is virtually the same strength. Nortje, Dixon, Louw is about the only players that is a level below. All the other ones have been at one stage equal to the number 1 in their position. (Faf is not even in your team and you have 3 fullbacks...What about Lood De Jager)
@@edrianluyt8735 I was including faf and de jager as they are long term injuries. I did however include those who were injured during this season. and im not sure the rankings at 15 so i had 3
The boks won and congrats to them but they were very close games IN SOUTH AFRICA. I doubt a second 15 team could beat the all blacks at Eden park, the first string boks team would struggle to beat the ABs at Eden park.
@@rugbyguy1rugby407 I think you might be missing the point. It's not that South Africa is so much better then NZ. We may easily lose to them playing our best team. It's that our top 30 players atm. Are about the same quality. You could swap out just about any player (or any combination of players) without the quality of the team dropping. The case are made that the second 15 are pretty much as good as the first 15. A majority of the second team, was at some stage the starting player in that position. Kitshof, Mapimpi, Am, Marx etc.
@@edrianluyt8735 my point is still valid to the OP’s opinion that the boks second team could beat the AB’s first 15. I simply stated that I doubt the boks 2nd string team would beat the ABs first team at Eden park when their 2 games in South Africa against both teams first string teams was so close.
As a Saffa and 1000% Bok supporter, Aaron Smith has been the best 9 in the world for over 10 years. Even though he has retired from international rugby, he is still the best 9 in the world.
@@jaycordner3890I would pick Faf over both, without even a second thought. There is no such thing as "the best". Instead, there is what fits you and your playing style. While Faf can play the exiting style and give the ball some air, he is an absolute maestro when it comes to managing a gritty and close game. And then there is composure. Picture this: World Cup semi-final. You are either trailing by a point, or leading by a point. It's rainy conditions and you've got a slippery ball. The players are tired and sore after an intensely physical encounter. You either need to win a penalty, or defend for your life. The question isn't which one of the three (Faf, Smith or Dupont) has the most talent; the question is which one of the three has the grit to see the game through?
In his prime George Gregan was great but I like a scrummie to have the build of a flanker- Fourie du Preez or Joost. Faf is my man, although he was a bit average this year, ❤ Faf but Aaron is a bit better.
I am a bok and can't answer this,both countries produce the best rugby players. The all blacks have produced incredible players as have the boks. If we look currently SA has the edge but if we look previously the ABs had the edge. Both produce incredible players.
We don’t produce better players. We’ve got the best top players right now but overall? NZ 20s, 18s, Schools are all either the best or right up there at every level. However we do produce an extraordinary amount of class forwards at the moment our 2-3 forwards still better then most nations
@@Edgycoo Such a dumb argument, every team got a chance to have two home games against one of the other teams. New Zealand got to play both games against Argentina at home, why didn't they win both games? Argentina play Australia twice at home, why didn't they win both games?
@@adrianpheiffer9960 argentina are lower ranked than they should be. But the top two seeds shouldnt see one get two home games thats ridiculous. Like to see how two games at eden park would go.
South Africa used 36 (something along those lines) of players for the TRC. They used 42+ if you extend for the June test. Just the TRC team (players who actually played), gets you 3 teams. Surely we are not even questioning the strength of the 3rd team's forward pack. Trevor N, Thomas Du Toit, can't even make the 3rd team. Hooker would be a genuine 3rd team player (the weakest link) - probably Grobbelaar or Venter. Locks would be Jean Klein, Moorat, or Nortje. World class. Etzebeth, Mostert, De Jager, Snyman are in the first 2 teams. And the loosies would be Marco van staaden, Elrich Louw or Evan Roos and Cameroon Hannekom. That pack is ridiculous, with one lossie and the hooker being the weakest position. Backline would be ridiculous - we have 5 world class half-backs (Faf, Reinach, Hendrikse, Williams and Morne) at the moment, Libbok would be 10, Moodie at centre, Fassie at 15, Van der merwe on one wing, and the other prob Grant Williams (plenty half backs to spare), and the final centre could be Hartzenburg, David Kriel. In summary, Hooker, one loosie and one centre would be the weakest positions (and only weak because the later 2 haven't any international experience) - for a 3rd team that is an impressive line-up.
@@beazjohnson9865 you've probably never player rugby so you probably don't understand that things like line speed, discipline, executing game plans are all skills. Im guessing NZ has a similar view to you regarding skills, where has it gotten you recently considering NZ are more skilled 🤣
Bok supporter here. I don’t agree with Danny that the Boks 2nds would definitely beat the ABs, but the fact that it’s a debate actually answers the original question. Here’s how to settle it: Who thinks the ABs 2nd team will beat the Boks? No debate there, which again, answers the question.
They hamstring themselves by that ridiculous policy, who are they trying to please? Same thing with Australia, they got serious sponsorship money, and pissed it down the drain instead of strengthening the structures and signing players to proper cntracts, it's mad. The 2 countries' rugby heads should be arrested and charged for weakening SH rugby.
That question about whether a second and third XV could beat most teams is a really good question. You wouldnt have an Eben, PSDT ot Kolbe but the quality of the players in many positions are pretty damn good for at least a second XV and quite a few for a third XV. Wings you have Mapimpi, Moodie, Edwill vd Merwe. Scrumhalves you have Williams, Reinach, Hendrikse. Centres you have Am, Esterhuizen. Flyhalves you have 2 of Libbok, Pollard, Feinberg-mgomezulu. Full Back you have 2 of Fassi, Willemse, Le Roux. We know the boks have at least 2 full packs without including players like Roos, Ben Jason Dixon, Ruan Nortje, Elrigh Louw. Considering all of that plus some URC players like Hanekom it does seem quite likely
I read recently that the fastest dying sports in NZ and Aus is rugby union. I can’t believe this. Is this true? That’s not good for both those countries, and equally not good for world rugby. As for SA, the supply of talent that’s been opened up in the rural areas is phenomenal. The beast is finally being unleashed. The future for SA rugby looks strong.
No debate South Africa produces better players. Furthermore look at the rotation of players currently being implemented by Rassie. 49 players used in the rugby championship. We don’t import any players from ”the islands” Our school boy rugby is off charts - just ask Tim from Eggchasers. The bok factory is in full flow and we are only destined to produce more and more talent. Where arguably rugby as a sport is dying in other countries, in SA rugby is growing. Boks for the next decade at least will be very difficult to beat
The only team nz was the first team to won back to back wc are u stupid or just playing dumb the bokke can never won the abs zero score event now while they building up a new team u must go and asked ur Jesus for help to think 😡
South Africa is currently in a good place with player choices. That doesn't make them better than any other country. They are however the current world champions and the current in form team.
Bok fan. I think SA and NZ are very equal these days, much more so than the past which was one sided. Also I don't believe England under deliver. Last 4 World Cups finals they've played 3...England also been top 2-3 in six nations. I do believe English media are the teams own worst enemy. They might not have won anything but they've been up there consistently. In reality, the are playing France and Ireland best ever and Scotland as well.
@@mattf1998 you have to go back 7 years to find some 'evidence' to disprove the statement? Not trying to poke the bear here mate, but have you seen what has happened in competition between the two since then?
More class from another Ruggas Player. Well spoken Danny Care on the A Smith topic. While i agree, A smith was a better player, i am not sure we would see him taking on a question like DC did. Kudos to you. From another irritating WC X4 Saffa :)
The Springboks are only going to get better. The new talent at their disposal that was blooded in this year bodes very well indeed. Hugo-Venter, Fassie, Dixon, Moodie, Williams, Mngomezulu, Van der Merwe, Louw, Roos, Steenkamp, Wessels, Grobbelaar, van den Berg, van Rensburg, Mchunu, Buthelezi, Horn, Nortje, Venter, Moerat. Man the list is long and very exciting! That’s 20 players! All with tremendous potential. The All Blacks just don’t possess the same level of high quality young stock.
Boks pull the Irish pants down, in both the world cups and head to head between the 2 teams🇿🇦🙂. Irish rugby are in the Boks shadow and always have been 👌🏻🙂
If NZ super rugby teams could play more competitive opposition they would be back to their own high standards and you would not have this discussion. Meanwhile SA who have 10 times more players got the luxury to take part in two quality competitions at the same time. Thats winning the lottery. And winning comes more regularly now that they don't have to play Nz teams anymore.
This is definitely their most difficult period of transition with the world getting their house in order and legendary players not rolling off the conveyor belt anymore. Still i hope they can get to a better place.
There is no such thing as a Springbok B team. The B team is called South-Africa A. When you play the Boks you play the Boks, regardless of who the players on the field are.
One thing to consider to is all the Springboks are born and bred in South Africa. The All Blacks have always dabbled in the other Pacific Island nations. Further, the depth argument at this point clearly in favour of South Africa.
South Africa have tradtionally used Zimbabwean players. Plus think of all the top players New Zeland produces for other nations. Bundi Aki, James Low,Gibson Parl, Antonio, Meafou.
@@BertFlashman There have been like 5 foreign born Springboks in the last 35 years. And 1 in last 15. That’s nothing compared to the All Blacks. To say they’ve traditionally always used Zimbabweans is an outrageous exaggeration. And the Springboks have also had a lot of great exports to other countries. Look at Scotland right now. England, France and Ireland have all had their share as well. Your points are moot.
I think NZ gets a lot of immigration from Samoa, Tonga and the like where rugby is very popular. I believe there are more NZ born players in the Samoan and Tongan teams at the World Cup. SA tends to get immigrants from countries where football (soccer) is most popular to play.
If the current All Blacks played last year, they would have essentially been considered a second team and yet they held up pretty well against the Boks in the TRC.
Yeah let's just forget how you take the cream of the pacific islands or the fact that 80% of South Africans are not interested in rugby ( but boy is that changing) and play football.
Good concept to apply to Rugby! A little shilling for the Bok fans thrown in. Got to admire it. The more complimentary you can be to Bok fans the quicker you'll grow.
Loved this lads… In the past 8years or so SA have been on the up, I think SA leaving the SR. Lead to the drop in form of NZL and Aus. . . They need replenish and rebuilding, as for producing quality players or athletes. I’d argue and say that the reason we see 7/3 or 8/2 split it’s because most current SA players are quite versatile! Danny raised a valid point about Andre . . . Lastly England have not been a consistent outfit, especially with the quality they’ve had over the years.
It's an easy debate. If.you picked a 23 out of SA and NZ right now youd have 15 Boks and 8 Kiwis. SA still getting a few players back from injury and a few new stars coming into the mix.
@@croissants1280 yeah but only won 10 out of the last 29 games against the springboks. How many world cups do they have? Zero Ireland is not as good as they think. Go win a world cup then you can talk boy.
@@lht1523 I disagree. It's not that our strongest team is invincible. We could lose against any team in the top 10. But, our top 30 player are pretty much the same quality. You could make up a team of any of our top 30 players and the quality of the team would roughly be the same. You could chose the weakest 15 and the strongest 15 from the top 30 and it would be a toss up on who would win if they played against each other. This is credit to Rassie for building squad depth like we have never seen in SA history. I think part of it his bomb squad system that the subs basically play half the game. No other SA coach have done that. Subs in the past, was generally seen as a way to experiment or bleed new talent, so they were not on par with the first 15.
@@edrianluyt8735 I hear you. And I agree that you guys have incredible depth. Kudos not only to Rassie but the whole coaching staff and system they are amazing. But the last 2 games showed that the All Blacks can handle whatever 15 SA chooses to field. It is the reserves that close out the game. In a imaginary scenario where there is only 15 men (which is the original point), the All Blacks beat them. That is my opinion
That first argument broke the second he said "to play their brand" because how many South Africans are playing across the rugby WORLD, his argument has no foothold because an argument can be made that the Boks are the most versatile side currently. It's been a minute since the world was excited about a NZ player 🤷
South Africa without first choice 15 in no one is injured: 1. Kitshoff 2. Mbonambi 3. Koch 4. Snyman 5. Mostert 6. Kwagga 7. Louw 8. Roos 9. Williams 10. Libbok 11. Mapimpi 12. Esterhuizen 13. Am 14. Moodie 15. Fassi, Willie, SFM
I am the idiot American that doesn't know anything compared to these men about Rugby, and I will say no way, freaking Argentina beat the Springboks when they played backups less than a Month ago!
for the record wheres all ur dan carters world highest quality doesnt come from convayor belts. nz is the best there is u know but acting like u dont know
@@BertFlashman New Zealand fans and pundits live in the past. They have that entitlement factor, thinking that they own rugby and only their team is the best never giving credit to Springboks. It really blows my mind. I think you are jealous of the our success and more importantly our coach.
It is very close but at the moment I think SA is ahead and if SA will have a second team who can consistantly play together then I agree that they might beat the All Blacks. I won't say will coz anything can happen on the day and that would be ignorant but a team with the likes of Libbok, Cameron etc is crazy to think of.
South africas second team has allready beaten the nz team earlier the year... And also all the SA players are sa players while nz players come from all over the pacific Islands... Not just nz
I dont think this guys understand. Come visit South Africa "Cape Town" and come watch school boy rugby and western privince Super League A rugby then you will understand how good SA really is.
SA pool their players from citizens. Apart from this, SA could have very bad, but give Rassie the accolade. I know everyone will go at me for that, but Rassie build the person!
Mmmh, im South African. Ive got massive respect for the kiwis. I think its a bit disrespectful to New Zealand. Our second team migjt get close. But i dont believe we are that much better. I think honestly of we had more money, its possible. We definitely have more players and the talent to do it. If we had the funds to help the players.
I think 1st, 2nd and 3rd team would get close. It talks to the depth and consistency of the squad. Whilst we do have a pecking order of 1 through to 3, I think they are pretty close. A 3rd team only starts looking light in 1 or 2 positions (Hooker and Centre). That is unbelievable!!
@@DoNotCareAboutYourOpinions 60million still have trouble beating a country that has 5. and can only win by apoint against 14 kiwis yah ur so much depth comments are screaming insecurity is looking more like ego babbling
Come on, Gents, please. Break it down. Lets name some players.... PSTD, Kwagga Smith, Ox Nche, Kolbe, Arendse, Etsebeth, Siya, Malherbe, and, and, and ..... SA produces the best players AND the best team. End of debate
So sad that the debate of the superiority of South African rugby players to those of all the Southern Hemisphere nations is being contested. Whats worse, is that England and other nations still doubt that and even dismiss the back to back World Cup prowess of the South Africans is still being debated. Watch them win RWC 2027 again and also RWC 2031 back to back. Thats whats in store.
@@DannyCareYT 2027 is a given... 2031 is still in sight, but depending on Rassie staying on until then, i think its a definite string possibility. My sense is you also have that gut feel for 2027 too.
No way the SA second team beats the NZ first team haha. But they do have more depth atm I think. Population a lot bigger though. Think theyre just trying to pull his leg.
well south africa as a whole are producing the best rugby players from youth age they ready to step in senior rugby with ease, the systems that is in place is remarkable, school boy rugby, craven week, varsity, currie cup, urc, international. look at the talent in the four urc teams, look at the talent in the boks team, and their so called second string is still as good as the guys starting, boks is by far more superior now, all blacks struggle to keep up and the rest as well. look how many options rassie got to choose from.
The 2nd v 1st XV , the only position where there might be a short coming for SA is replacing PSTD 2nd XV that will make it a 1 point game vs AB's 1st XV Kitshof , Marx , Trevor , Snyman,Klein , Smith , Dixon , /Louw , Williams ,Mngomozulu , Mapimpi , Esterhuizen , Am , E vd Merwe , Le Roux Considering a First XV Ox , Bongi ,Malherbe , Etzebeth , Nortje , Kolisi, Du Toit , Wiese , Reinach, Arendse,Pollard, De Allende, Kriel, Kolbe , Fassi Which 1 of those 2 teams won't beat NZ ? Then there has to be mentioned players left out Steenkamp , Mostert ,De Klerk , Libbok , Moody , D Williams , Wilco Louw , Hanekom , Hendrikse Brothers, Van Staden
Never forget SA uses its overseas players. NZ does not, so we are comparing oranges and apples. Similar case with Australia. Why not prove it. NPC v Currie Cup. Could be interesting. Still plenty of great rugby players in NZ. Just ask the OZ league scouts.
To all you Kiwis defending your beloved All Blacks, welcome to the years of excuses and blaming. Saffas have had our fair share of excuses, but lets be real. Your first 15 are on par with our second 15, point shown with our second string backline at twickenham where the springboks thumped your lads. Cant account for the forwards, because lets again be honest, south africas bomb squad (2nd team) still dominates the world stage. It sucks, and Saffas know how it feels but in reality we just have a much larger talent pool. NZ has let Rugby League gain traction which is dissolving the NZ talent pool. Peace to the rugby brothers, cant wait for next year Boks at Eden Park!!!
@@johnnysins4870 we have about 200 players playing outside of South Africa plus 4 URC teams plus another 10 professional Currie Cup teams that don't play in the URC. That's about 18 full squads. Of the 62 Million people about half are Male (we're talking about men's rugby here). Of that 31 Million about 80% historically prefer football. That leaves about 6.2 million which isn't much more than other countries. That is increasing though. Looking at the "Rugby players" SA produces you are talking about people like PSDT, Etzebeth, Ox Nche, Willie Le Roux, Duane Vermeulen, Cheslin Kolbe, Kurt Lee Arendse, Lukhanyo Am, Handre Pollard, Manie Libbok, Faf, Damian Willemse ... I'd say that's a pretty good selection regardless of how you choose to define it
@@mallencolly That is one of the dumbest arguments I've ever heard every country half the people are are male🤣🤣. Also if were going off popular sports. Despite football still being SA no 1 sport rugby is still much more popular in South Africa then every major country apart from New Zealand. SA produces amazing players. I'm just saying that SAins who try to say some teams are only good because they import players. They became good in the system of the country they play for. you have much bigger player base too choose from SA isn't punching above there weight, and your players are allowed to play over sees while still playing for there national teams.
@@johnnysins4870 I don't know ... Saying that players become good in the system they play for seems pretty dumb to me. Are you suggesting Bundee Aki or Duhan Vd Merwe (amongst others) weren't good players before? Take the South Africans (and New Zealanders) out of the other teams and there will be a noticeable drop in quality. That said I couldn't care less where players go play. I'd prefer qualification to be based on citizenship rather than residence but it's really not that important to me. The fact that SA selects foreign players certainly works in our favour. But like I said we have about 200 professional players playing outside of SA. That's 4, maybe 5, full squads or about 15 players for each professional team. Can you imagine each team in any professional league losing 15 players? The point is that SA does produce a lot of very good rugby players. "Better" is probably just a matter of taste.
Add this to your queue of DEBATABLE statements - Rassie Erasmus is the GOAT of International Rugby Union coaches.... or Andre Joubert and Marius Jonker are the worst products of South African rugby EVER.
When you say Andre Joubert, are you referring Andre Joubert the full back from the '95 WC-winning team? I hope not. A side story, watching a game between SA and Scotland, there was a classic Scottish commentator whose name i forget, but he described AJ in this way, with a strong Scottish accent: Built like a Rhino, but with the speed of a cheetah. :)
@@malcolmvanhilten125 lol, No, not the Rolls Royce of Rugby, no. I meant the bliksemse ref. I thought the juxtaposition of Joubert with Jonker would have been a clue!
Let me destroy Danny Care’s argument: AB’s first XV are BETTER than the Boks first XV. It’s proven. Both games in the Rugby Championship, even track back 10 games = AB’s are always ahead, starters vs starters. It’s actually been the biggest topic how the AB’s bench them down. Last 20! This is known facts lol that’s not even mentioning this is a REBUILD AB’s 👀 Secondly, let me remind everyone that a 14 man AB’s, (labelled weak by the media) score 3 times, with one disallowed and missed two kicks to lose the World Cup Final. The Boks couldn’t score ONCE and relied on Pollards 100% boot to win. These are all cold hard FACTS 😂 But the media will have you believe they are the greatest squad ever. Miles ahead that even their 2nd unit could beat the AB’s 🤦🏽♂️🤔
Did Danny Care not watch the game where the Boks needed a knock on try to scrape by the ABs? Lol even the second game was close. Ardie Savea being the current poty negates his other point as well. Both teams have players that would start in either side. He needs to stop pretending he knows SH rugby
The commenters who think NZ imports players also lack knowledge of NZ. Virtually every AB born outside of NZ still learnt their rugby in NZ. Virtually all of them have kiwi accents too. I bet alot of them don't realise alot of the pacific island teams have more NZ born players than locally born as well.
South Africa in South Africa at the peak of their powers just beat the All Blacks by 4pts & 6pts respectively hardly thrashings, and in the 4pt win they were awarded a try that was a CLEAR KNOCK ON. You would’ve thought they won both games by 30 🥴🥴🥴 by the way I’m not arguing that the Boks aren’t better right now (they are look at the trophy cabinet) but 2nd team beating the All Blacks best team? Nah not having it. Would loved to have seen the Boks play in NZ this yr cos I don’t think they win. They barely won in their own backyard.
South Africa produce better rugby players than New Zealand...STRONGLY AGREE or STRONGLY DISAGREE...comment please!
Agree.
disagree
On a consistency basis, and on the basis of their rugby culture, they absolutely do.
But for those individuals with a sky-high ceiling, I'd argue other countries do that better
Strongly agree craven week conveyor belt is frightening
Agree, because the structures are set up by SARU to develop aspirate rugby talent from school level....job creation 🏆🏆🏆🏆
SA used 49 different players in the rugby championship, not to mention the ones that couldn't be used due to injury. That's insane
Not quite - they used 49 (or thereabouts) for the TRC + June tests. They only used 36'ish in the TRC.
We produce better forwards
but athletes? I love the Springboks but New Zealand produce some wild athletes
Springboks is producing better players than All Blacks
Leinster academy would like a word
@@alexorjerry They can have their say at any WC semi-final or URC final. The hosts have agreed to give them all the time they need before that games...........If they make it - Brian O discord.
Our under 20s, 18s, don’t do as well as NZ.
We don’t produce better rugby players.
but we produce more physical, huge forwards that’s for sure
Here is something to consider. So for the first ninety years of the Springboks, rugby was a "white" sport due Apartheid. People of colour could play it, but funding, coaching and facilities was a giant obstacle. With ±10% of our population playing, we set up an incredible rugby system that fed the most dominant team throughout the entire amateur era. No team, not even the All Blacks, was as dominant for as long as the Springboks were. The players we produced even then are S-tier; guys like Danie Gerber, Mannetjies Roux, Frik Du Preez, Naas Botha, Jan Ellis, Gerald Bosch etc.
Then came the end of Apartheid and we had to make shift - black representation was mandated and therefore initiatives were started to make the sport more accessible. This unfortunately went hand in hand with some political meddling, stern quota requirements and whatnot...but by hook or by crook, we got systems in place in order to development black talent and push them towards the formidable system we've built. Players of colour in especially the Cape provinces and the Xhosa people have taken to rugby.
So basically, take the 10% of the population that produced Danie Gerber and Naas Botha and then add another 20% of the population that produced the likes of Kolisi, Nche, Am, Paulse, Kolbe and Habana.
Zulu, Tswana, Sotho etc are less developed in their rugby cycle, but they'll get there.
If we could dominate the way we did with only 10% of our population... Engaging the other 90 to feed into our rugby conveyor is a rather frightening prospect.
with a tenth of your population we kick ur arse way too reguluarly allblacks have the positive head to head to head so suck it
The saddest thing about the political meddling is that it actually turned out to be a blessing in disguise. I remember the post 1995 teams that the Springboks fielded, from the lily white team that lost to the BI Lions in 1997 under Markgraaff to the sheer tokenism of later teams where the bare minimum of non-white players were included, mostly on the wing "where they could do the least damage". The forced inclusion made us look at the 'other 90%' and we have reaped some fantastic rewards as a result, but I strongly believe that if it wasn't for the quota system, we never would have heard of Bryan Habana, Kurt Lee Arendse, Lukhanyo Am, Siya Kolisi, to name a few, because there would be no reason to include them in the first place.
With our attitude of resisting black inclusion in the first place, and by that I mean systems and coaching, we lost out on some great players who could potentially have played a lot more than they ever did; Kennedy Tsimba, Kaya Malotana, Gobani Bobo, Solly Tyibilika.. all ended up on the fringes but we had the attitude of preferring the bigger Afrikaans boys, especially those from historic rugby schools.
I was talking to an English bloke on Facebook a few days ago, and this was basically the same position I held, we are going to do some magnificent things in Rugby when the ground structures are accessible to most of our population, currently it's still not easy to even play barefoot rugga for a significant chuck of our populace, the moment we get that and the culture and traditions established, Rugby might end up being as big, if not bigger than footy in our country.
The governance of our rugby is certainly more proffessional than those clowns at SAFA.
South Africa doesn’t have to import their players 😅.
This reason wins hahaha
Congratulations. A population of 65 million, rugby the most popular sport by a mile along with cricket.
@@eoinh3816Football is by far the most popular sport in South Africa, you obviously aren’t South African. And 65 mil, with half of them who don’t know when they’re going to get their next meal is not the same thing as being a first world country with that population. The fact that South Africa are a third world country makes it way more impressive as well.
@@jameswyatt4443 So how are you so god awful at football then? Your probably the worst team on the continent of Africa
Football is u tart@@eoinh3816
Springbok 2nd XV vs 1st XV in brackets, you may switch a few around but theyre similar quality. But this team absolutely could beat the ABs 1st XV
1. Kitshoff (Ox)
2. Marx (Mbonambi)
3. Koch (Malherbe)
4. Nortje (Eben)
5. Snyman (Mostert)
6. Kwagga (Siya)
7. Dixon (PSDT)
8. Louw (Wiese)
9. Williams (Reinach)
10. SFM (Pollard)
11. Mapimpi (Kolbe)
12. Esterhuizen (De Allende)
13. Am (Kriel)
14. Moodie (Arendse)
15. Fassi (Willie / Willemse)
100% Credit to Rassie, but our 1st and second team is virtually the same strength. Nortje, Dixon, Louw is about the only players that is a level below. All the other ones have been at one stage equal to the number 1 in their position. (Faf is not even in your team and you have 3 fullbacks...What about Lood De Jager)
@@edrianluyt8735 I was including faf and de jager as they are long term injuries. I did however include those who were injured during this season. and im not sure the rankings at 15 so i had 3
The boks won and congrats to them but they were very close games IN SOUTH AFRICA. I doubt a second 15 team could beat the all blacks at Eden park, the first string boks team would struggle to beat the ABs at Eden park.
@@rugbyguy1rugby407 I think you might be missing the point. It's not that South Africa is so much better then NZ. We may easily lose to them playing our best team. It's that our top 30 players atm. Are about the same quality. You could swap out just about any player (or any combination of players) without the quality of the team dropping.
The case are made that the second 15 are pretty much as good as the first 15. A majority of the second team, was at some stage the starting player in that position. Kitshof, Mapimpi, Am, Marx etc.
@@edrianluyt8735 my point is still valid to the OP’s opinion that the boks second team could beat the AB’s first 15. I simply stated that I doubt the boks 2nd string team would beat the ABs first team at Eden park when their 2 games in South Africa against both teams first string teams was so close.
As a Saffa and 1000% Bok supporter, Aaron Smith has been the best 9 in the world for over 10 years. Even though he has retired from international rugby, he is still the best 9 in the world.
As A Saffa i agree right up to the last bit. DU PONT is the best srum half in the world
@@jaycordner3890I would pick Faf over both, without even a second thought.
There is no such thing as "the best". Instead, there is what fits you and your playing style. While Faf can play the exiting style and give the ball some air, he is an absolute maestro when it comes to managing a gritty and close game.
And then there is composure. Picture this: World Cup semi-final. You are either trailing by a point, or leading by a point. It's rainy conditions and you've got a slippery ball. The players are tired and sore after an intensely physical encounter. You either need to win a penalty, or defend for your life. The question isn't which one of the three (Faf, Smith or Dupont) has the most talent; the question is which one of the three has the grit to see the game through?
In his prime George Gregan was great but I like a scrummie to have the build of a flanker- Fourie du Preez or Joost. Faf is my man, although he was a bit average this year, ❤ Faf but Aaron is a bit better.
@@randomlyfactual1943 Only a Saffa would pick Faf over Smith and Dupont.
@@rockkid8306 Probably because we know that the matches aren't played on paper.
I am a bok and can't answer this,both countries produce the best rugby players. The all blacks have produced incredible players as have the boks. If we look currently SA has the edge but if we look previously the ABs had the edge. Both produce incredible players.
We don’t produce better players.
We’ve got the best top players right now but overall?
NZ 20s, 18s, Schools are all either the best or right up there at every level.
However we do produce an extraordinary amount of class forwards at the moment our 2-3 forwards still better then most nations
lets be real, the boks were unbelievably lucky to have both their games at home this year.
Springboks were lucky to win the world cup, helped out in the Quarter and Semi by a Kiwi Ref
So bitter that they changing the rules, cause SA is sooooo good..shame the rest always need 16 players on the field
@@dragonfire4957 youre ranked #2 not 1 😂
@@Edgycoo Such a dumb argument, every team got a chance to have two home games against one of the other teams. New Zealand got to play both games against Argentina at home, why didn't they win both games? Argentina play Australia twice at home, why didn't they win both games?
@@adrianpheiffer9960 argentina are lower ranked than they should be. But the top two seeds shouldnt see one get two home games thats ridiculous. Like to see how two games at eden park would go.
South Africa used 36 (something along those lines) of players for the TRC. They used 42+ if you extend for the June test. Just the TRC team (players who actually played), gets you 3 teams. Surely we are not even questioning the strength of the 3rd team's forward pack. Trevor N, Thomas Du Toit, can't even make the 3rd team. Hooker would be a genuine 3rd team player (the weakest link) - probably Grobbelaar or Venter. Locks would be Jean Klein, Moorat, or Nortje. World class. Etzebeth, Mostert, De Jager, Snyman are in the first 2 teams. And the loosies would be Marco van staaden, Elrich Louw or Evan Roos and Cameroon Hannekom. That pack is ridiculous, with one lossie and the hooker being the weakest position. Backline would be ridiculous - we have 5 world class half-backs (Faf, Reinach, Hendrikse, Williams and Morne) at the moment, Libbok would be 10, Moodie at centre, Fassie at 15, Van der merwe on one wing, and the other prob Grant Williams (plenty half backs to spare), and the final centre could be Hartzenburg, David Kriel. In summary, Hooker, one loosie and one centre would be the weakest positions (and only weak because the later 2 haven't any international experience) - for a 3rd team that is an impressive line-up.
It is true. Esterhuizen is now officially third pick. Lukhanyo Am is coming off the bench replacing De Allende in these last few games.
I would agree. South Africa are a better team but New Zealand have better skilled individuals.
Agreed💯
You are looking at skilled in a very 1 dimensional way 😊 an incorrect way
@@pauljansen6650 Truth hurts
@@beazjohnson9865 you've probably never player rugby so you probably don't understand that things like line speed, discipline, executing game plans are all skills.
Im guessing NZ has a similar view to you regarding skills, where has it gotten you recently considering NZ are more skilled 🤣
@@pauljansen6650 What on earth are you on about sunshine. Maybe look up the difference between team and individual skills before commenting.
Bok supporter here. I don’t agree with Danny that the Boks 2nds would definitely beat the ABs, but the fact that it’s a debate actually answers the original question.
Here’s how to settle it: Who thinks the ABs 2nd team will beat the Boks? No debate there, which again, answers the question.
No one in NZ thinks their second team could beat the Boks.
NZ should start to pick their foreign based playes. Game changer. The first thing Rassie got right.
They hamstring themselves by that ridiculous policy, who are they trying to please?
Same thing with Australia, they got serious sponsorship money, and pissed it down the drain instead of strengthening the structures and signing players to proper cntracts, it's mad.
The 2 countries' rugby heads should be arrested and charged for weakening SH rugby.
@@Ravens1300 Exactly.
Springbok proven themselves that the Are better than any team at the moment in 2024 Rugby Championship
That question about whether a second and third XV could beat most teams is a really good question. You wouldnt have an Eben, PSDT ot Kolbe but the quality of the players in many positions are pretty damn good for at least a second XV and quite a few for a third XV. Wings you have Mapimpi, Moodie, Edwill vd Merwe. Scrumhalves you have Williams, Reinach, Hendrikse. Centres you have Am, Esterhuizen. Flyhalves you have 2 of Libbok, Pollard, Feinberg-mgomezulu. Full Back you have 2 of Fassi, Willemse, Le Roux. We know the boks have at least 2 full packs without including players like Roos, Ben Jason Dixon, Ruan Nortje, Elrigh Louw. Considering all of that plus some URC players like Hanekom it does seem quite likely
At present strongly agree!!!
I read recently that the fastest dying sports in NZ and Aus is rugby union. I can’t believe this. Is this true? That’s not good for both those countries, and equally not good for world rugby. As for SA, the supply of talent that’s been opened up in the rural areas is phenomenal. The beast is finally being unleashed. The future for SA rugby looks strong.
The literal awakening of a sleeping dragon comes to mind.
SA 2nd team- Marx, Koch, RG Snyman, Elrigh Louw, K Smith, K Reinach, Pollard, A vd Westhuizen, L Am, M Mspimpi, D Willemse ….. ..just saying
No debate South Africa produces better players. Furthermore look at the rotation of players currently being implemented by Rassie. 49 players used in the rugby championship. We don’t import any players from ”the islands”
Our school boy rugby is off charts - just ask Tim from Eggchasers. The bok factory is in full flow and we are only destined to produce more and more talent. Where arguably rugby as a sport is dying in other countries, in SA rugby is growing.
Boks for the next decade at least will be very difficult to beat
South African Springboks - still the ONLY rugby team to ever win back to back Rugby World Cups AWAY from home.
The only team nz was the first team to won back to back wc are u stupid or just playing dumb the bokke can never won the abs zero score event now while they building up a new team u must go and asked ur Jesus for help to think 😡
South Africa is currently in a good place with player choices.
That doesn't make them better than any other country.
They are however the current world champions and the current in form team.
Agree
Bok fan. I think SA and NZ are very equal these days, much more so than the past which was one sided.
Also I don't believe England under deliver. Last 4 World Cups finals they've played 3...England also been top 2-3 in six nations. I do believe English media are the teams own worst enemy. They might not have won anything but they've been up there consistently. In reality, the are playing France and Ireland best ever and Scotland as well.
aye no way dude remember when u sent springboks2nd to albany auckland and lost 60 -0 dreamers
These guys are English not south African. Danny crane played in the semi finals in last years world cup
@@mattf1998 you have to go back 7 years to find some 'evidence' to disprove the statement? Not trying to poke the bear here mate, but have you seen what has happened in competition between the two since then?
Player pool in SA is now massive with a new DNA of athlete as players of colour are joining the sport on mass. The rugby structures are still strong.
More class from another Ruggas Player. Well spoken Danny Care on the A Smith topic. While i agree, A smith was a better player, i am not sure we would see him taking on a question like DC did. Kudos to you. From another irritating WC X4 Saffa :)
I'd like to SA play NZ in NZ
The Springboks are only going to get better. The new talent at their disposal that was blooded in this year bodes very well indeed. Hugo-Venter, Fassie, Dixon, Moodie, Williams, Mngomezulu, Van der Merwe, Louw, Roos, Steenkamp, Wessels, Grobbelaar, van den Berg, van Rensburg, Mchunu, Buthelezi, Horn, Nortje, Venter, Moerat. Man the list is long and very exciting! That’s 20 players! All with tremendous potential.
The All Blacks just don’t possess the same level of high quality young stock.
cant wait for spring boks to play Ireland in Ireland, home advantage and it was 1/1, Ireland have their number
But Ireland doesn't have the RWCs number 😂
Boks pull the Irish pants down, in both the world cups and head to head between the 2 teams🇿🇦🙂. Irish rugby are in the Boks shadow and always have been 👌🏻🙂
If NZ super rugby teams could play more competitive opposition they would be back to their own high standards and you would not have this discussion.
Meanwhile SA who have 10 times more players got the luxury to take part in two quality competitions at the same time. Thats winning the lottery.
And winning comes more regularly now that they don't have to play Nz teams anymore.
The coach Dr Rassie is mostly the difference in the two teams. The players are equally good. Stats don’t lie! Great show gents!
This is definitely their most difficult period of transition with the world getting their house in order and legendary players not rolling off the conveyor belt anymore. Still i hope they can get to a better place.
There is no such thing as a Springbok B team. The B team is called South-Africa A. When you play the Boks you play the Boks, regardless of who the players on the field are.
One thing to consider to is all the Springboks are born and bred in South Africa. The All Blacks have always dabbled in the other Pacific Island nations. Further, the depth argument at this point clearly in favour of South Africa.
South Africa have tradtionally used Zimbabwean players. Plus think of all the top players New Zeland produces for other nations. Bundi Aki, James Low,Gibson Parl, Antonio, Meafou.
@@BertFlashman Only Beast Mtawarira is a Zimbo
@@BertFlashman😂😂😂😂 just Beast my man, check the facts. Actually Zimbabwe and Namibia use SA players in their squad don't get confused please.
@@BertFlashman There have been like 5 foreign born Springboks in the last 35 years. And 1 in last 15. That’s nothing compared to the All Blacks. To say they’ve traditionally always used Zimbabweans is an outrageous exaggeration. And the Springboks have also had a lot of great exports to other countries. Look at Scotland right now. England, France and Ireland have all had their share as well. Your points are moot.
I think NZ gets a lot of immigration from Samoa, Tonga and the like where rugby is very popular. I believe there are more NZ born players in the Samoan and Tongan teams at the World Cup. SA tends to get immigrants from countries where football (soccer) is most popular to play.
Am Englisch Rugby Player,what do you exspect.
From an lrish Rugby Fan,i can Not wait for the next six Nations ,in Dublin🥰
Books are the complete rugby nation.
😂😂😂😂agree with Danny
If the current All Blacks played last year, they would have essentially been considered a second team and yet they held up pretty well against the Boks in the TRC.
This dude is melting
Population of South Africa 63 million, Population of NZ just over 5 million
Yeah let's just forget how you take the cream of the pacific islands or the fact that 80% of South Africans are not interested in rugby ( but boy is that changing) and play football.
@@jksinorbit Population of Fiji less than a million, Tonga 100,00, Samoa 118,000.Id say these three produce the best rugby players.
Good point. As a supporter of the world champions I have to concede this. NZ player management is unequalled.
NZ play predominantly rugby, RSA predominantly play soccer🤷
Plus Tonga plus Samoa plus Fiji
Good concept to apply to Rugby! A little shilling for the Bok fans thrown in. Got to admire it. The more complimentary you can be to Bok fans the quicker you'll grow.
Hee hee you learn fast
Kiwis will literally murder you for making that statement😂😂
This is why Danny isnt starting this weekend is it?🤣😆🤣🤣
Ahhh. Good point! 😑
Loved this lads… In the past 8years or so SA have been on the up, I think SA leaving the SR. Lead to the drop in form of NZL and Aus. . . They need replenish and rebuilding, as for producing quality players or athletes. I’d argue and say that the reason we see 7/3 or 8/2 split it’s because most current SA players are quite versatile! Danny raised a valid point about Andre . . . Lastly England have not been a consistent outfit, especially with the quality they’ve had over the years.
The fact that an newish all black team beat a ENGELAND TEAM TIMES and this one guy is more worried about the boks is KAK FUNNY
Yes because the Boks are better than the ABs so makes sense that he is more worried about the Boks.🙂👌🏻
The AB's are in a very dark place and need to short them self's out first. The big problem came with South Africa leaving the Super Rugby.
Nt so much leaving, as being pushed out, that was a foolish decision.
I don't know about better rugby players. SA has a very good coach
It's an easy debate. If.you picked a 23 out of SA and NZ right now youd have 15 Boks and 8 Kiwis. SA still getting a few players back from injury and a few new stars coming into the mix.
South Africa is number one. But their 2nd 15 does not beat the All Blacks or any other top team for that matter. Dumbest thing I’ve heard in a awhile
Ireland has won last 5/6 against S.A.. S.A. number 1?😅
@@croissants1280 yeah but only won 10 out of the last 29 games against the springboks. How many world cups do they have? Zero Ireland is not as good as they think. Go win a world cup then you can talk boy.
@@croissants1280 The best Ireland could ever achieve is quarter finals. LMAO
@@lht1523 I disagree. It's not that our strongest team is invincible. We could lose against any team in the top 10. But, our top 30 player are pretty much the same quality. You could make up a team of any of our top 30 players and the quality of the team would roughly be the same. You could chose the weakest 15 and the strongest 15 from the top 30 and it would be a toss up on who would win if they played against each other.
This is credit to Rassie for building squad depth like we have never seen in SA history. I think part of it his bomb squad system that the subs basically play half the game. No other SA coach have done that.
Subs in the past, was generally seen as a way to experiment or bleed new talent, so they were not on par with the first 15.
@@edrianluyt8735 I hear you. And I agree that you guys have incredible depth. Kudos not only to Rassie but the whole coaching staff and system they are amazing. But the last 2 games showed that the All Blacks can handle whatever 15 SA chooses to field. It is the reserves that close out the game. In a imaginary scenario where there is only 15 men (which is the original point), the All Blacks beat them. That is my opinion
Ok so in their argument of “better player”. What makes a better player? A guy with flashy passing or a guy winning a rugby game.
That first argument broke the second he said "to play their brand" because how many South Africans are playing across the rugby WORLD, his argument has no foothold because an argument can be made that the Boks are the most versatile side currently.
It's been a minute since the world was excited about a NZ player 🤷
Roigaard will change that
South Africa without first choice 15 in no one is injured:
1. Kitshoff
2. Mbonambi
3. Koch
4. Snyman
5. Mostert
6. Kwagga
7. Louw
8. Roos
9. Williams
10. Libbok
11. Mapimpi
12. Esterhuizen
13. Am
14. Moodie
15. Fassi, Willie, SFM
I am the idiot American that doesn't know anything compared to these men about Rugby, and I will say no way, freaking Argentina beat the Springboks when they played backups less than a Month ago!
I think this is self explanatory, but this is regarding the first topic..
u know more than these british guys mate
Argentina also beat the All Blacks best team in New Zealand. Consider that too.
To be honest... Second Springbok side, can beat anybody but not consistently. We would likely beat NZ 40% of the time
Springbok 2nd team couldn't beat Argentina.
And neither could NZ 1st team at home!!
😂😂@@DoNotCareAboutYourOpinions
@@DoNotCareAboutYourOpinionsexactly
Neither could New Zealand’s A team. At home! 😂😂😂
@@DoNotCareAboutYourOpinions But NZ is realistic about their depth unlike Bok fans.
considering NZ threw away their last two games against the boks, this is a ludicrous take
for the record wheres all ur dan carters world highest quality doesnt come from convayor belts. nz is the best there is u know but acting like u dont know
Newzealand bias is crazy 😂
We literally are back to back but still the disrespect is beyond belief
How? The neutrals are backing South Africa and the New Zealander is backing New Zealand. Where's the bias?
@@BertFlashman New Zealand fans and pundits live in the past. They have that entitlement factor, thinking that they own rugby and only their team is the best never giving credit to Springboks. It really blows my mind. I think you are jealous of the our success and more importantly our coach.
@@kurtfrancis6638 lol not jealous at all, NZ are the undisputed GOATS, nothing to be jealous of.
@ducksmad things have changed. Everything must change, as it should.
I don’t think an SA second team would beat the ABs at all. Interesting that this is even a talking point though
It is very close but at the moment I think SA is ahead and if SA will have a second team who can consistantly play together then I agree that they might beat the All Blacks. I won't say will coz anything can happen on the day and that would be ignorant but a team with the likes of Libbok, Cameron etc is crazy to think of.
South africas second team has allready beaten the nz team earlier the year... And also all the SA players are sa players while nz players come from all over the pacific Islands... Not just nz
How many players in the current All Blacks touring squad were not born in New Zealand?
I dont think this guys understand. Come visit South Africa "Cape Town" and come watch school boy rugby and western privince Super League A rugby then you will understand how good SA really is.
It’s a few points at best at home in both tests with a very average abs side against the best springbok side ever yer the hype train is full steam now
SA pool their players from citizens. Apart from this, SA could have very bad, but give Rassie the accolade. I know everyone will go at me for that, but Rassie build the person!
Mmmh, im South African. Ive got massive respect for the kiwis. I think its a bit disrespectful to New Zealand. Our second team migjt get close. But i dont believe we are that much better. I think honestly of we had more money, its possible. We definitely have more players and the talent to do it. If we had the funds to help the players.
I think 1st, 2nd and 3rd team would get close. It talks to the depth and consistency of the squad. Whilst we do have a pecking order of 1 through to 3, I think they are pretty close. A 3rd team only starts looking light in 1 or 2 positions (Hooker and Centre). That is unbelievable!!
@@DoNotCareAboutYourOpinions 60million still have trouble beating a country that has 5. and can only win by apoint against 14 kiwis yah ur so much depth comments are screaming insecurity is looking more like ego babbling
@@shanecriddle-z5h A win is a win. Look at the bok's trophy cabinet for 2024. Just a gentle reminder.
Come on, Gents, please. Break it down. Lets name some players.... PSTD, Kwagga Smith, Ox Nche, Kolbe, Arendse, Etsebeth, Siya, Malherbe, and, and, and ..... SA produces the best players AND the best team. End of debate
105 test matches played
NZ won 62
SA won 36. 🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️😳
Did Aaron Smith ever get 5 yellows in one season? Just not as committed as DC...
New Zealand or New Zealand and their academy islands?
So sad that the debate of the superiority of South African rugby players to those of all the Southern Hemisphere nations is being contested. Whats worse, is that England and other nations still doubt that and even dismiss the back to back World Cup prowess of the South Africans is still being debated. Watch them win RWC 2027 again and also RWC 2031 back to back. Thats whats in store.
@@thembamadi Love your enthusiasm. 27…& 31…now that’s bold!
@@DannyCareYT 2027 is a given... 2031 is still in sight, but depending on Rassie staying on until then, i think its a definite string possibility. My sense is you also have that gut feel for 2027 too.
Who is Nick Evans?
Easily would have been an All Black legend if Dan Carter didn't exist.
How many overseas based players will make the current All Black team? 3 or 4 at best. This is a weak argument.
I think Faf is better than Aron Smith .
No way the SA second team beats the NZ first team haha. But they do have more depth atm I think. Population a lot bigger though. Think theyre just trying to pull his leg.
well south africa as a whole are producing the best rugby players from youth age they ready to step in senior rugby with ease, the systems that is in place is remarkable, school boy rugby, craven week, varsity, currie cup, urc, international. look at the talent in the four urc teams, look at the talent in the boks team, and their so called second string is still as good as the guys starting, boks is by far more superior now, all blacks struggle to keep up and the rest as well. look how many options rassie got to choose from.
Ridiculous debate. South African players are just as good players as NZ if not better
The 2nd v 1st XV , the only position where there might be a short coming for SA is replacing PSTD
2nd XV that will make it a 1 point game vs AB's 1st XV
Kitshof , Marx , Trevor , Snyman,Klein , Smith , Dixon , /Louw , Williams ,Mngomozulu , Mapimpi , Esterhuizen , Am , E vd Merwe , Le Roux
Considering a First XV
Ox , Bongi ,Malherbe , Etzebeth , Nortje , Kolisi, Du Toit , Wiese , Reinach, Arendse,Pollard, De Allende, Kriel, Kolbe , Fassi
Which 1 of those 2 teams won't beat NZ ?
Then there has to be mentioned players left out
Steenkamp , Mostert ,De Klerk , Libbok , Moody , D Williams , Wilco Louw , Hanekom , Hendrikse Brothers, Van Staden
The funny is these European boys they can’t have sleep All Blacks and Springboks give them sleep less night.😂😂😂
sorry but their opinions are so wildly OFF!! Danny has no clue! Sorry!
All blacks lost the last two games against the Springboks…this oak needs a reality check
boks seconds lost to argentina poof on that mate
NZ first team couldn't do it too😂😂😂😂😂
nz first team lost to argentina, not to mention saffas first team absolutely mauled argentina in that 2nd test
You did watch the second game when The Boks fielded a first tier squad right?
Never forget SA uses its overseas players. NZ does not, so we are comparing oranges and apples. Similar case with Australia. Why not prove it. NPC v Currie Cup. Could be interesting. Still plenty of great rugby players in NZ. Just ask the OZ league scouts.
Bruh New Zealand second team use to beat every team in the world domt forget how good the all blacks were south africa.
Are we counting all the players NZ deem don't pick because they're playing outside NZ?
Athletes for their game plan. Game plan no fitness needed just stack team and bench with big boys...yawn
To all you Kiwis defending your beloved All Blacks, welcome to the years of excuses and blaming. Saffas have had our fair share of excuses, but lets be real. Your first 15 are on par with our second 15, point shown with our second string backline at twickenham where the springboks thumped your lads. Cant account for the forwards, because lets again be honest, south africas bomb squad (2nd team) still dominates the world stage. It sucks, and Saffas know how it feels but in reality we just have a much larger talent pool. NZ has let Rugby League gain traction which is dissolving the NZ talent pool. Peace to the rugby brothers, cant wait for next year Boks at Eden Park!!!
People saying SA doesn't import your players SA have 62 million people surely you should be producing better rugby players.
@@johnnysins4870 we have about 200 players playing outside of South Africa plus 4 URC teams plus another 10 professional Currie Cup teams that don't play in the URC. That's about 18 full squads.
Of the 62 Million people about half are Male (we're talking about men's rugby here). Of that 31 Million about 80% historically prefer football. That leaves about 6.2 million which isn't much more than other countries. That is increasing though.
Looking at the "Rugby players" SA produces you are talking about people like PSDT, Etzebeth, Ox Nche, Willie Le Roux, Duane Vermeulen, Cheslin Kolbe, Kurt Lee Arendse, Lukhanyo Am, Handre Pollard, Manie Libbok, Faf, Damian Willemse ... I'd say that's a pretty good selection regardless of how you choose to define it
@@mallencolly That is one of the dumbest arguments I've ever heard every country half the people are are male🤣🤣. Also if were going off popular sports. Despite football still being SA no 1 sport rugby is still much more popular in South Africa then every major country apart from New Zealand. SA produces amazing players. I'm just saying that SAins who try to say some teams are only good because they import players. They became good in the system of the country they play for. you have much bigger player base too choose from SA isn't punching above there weight, and your players are allowed to play over sees while still playing for there national teams.
@@johnnysins4870 I don't know ... Saying that players become good in the system they play for seems pretty dumb to me. Are you suggesting Bundee Aki or Duhan Vd Merwe (amongst others) weren't good players before?
Take the South Africans (and New Zealanders) out of the other teams and there will be a noticeable drop in quality. That said I couldn't care less where players go play. I'd prefer qualification to be based on citizenship rather than residence but it's really not that important to me.
The fact that SA selects foreign players certainly works in our favour. But like I said we have about 200 professional players playing outside of SA. That's 4, maybe 5, full squads or about 15 players for each professional team. Can you imagine each team in any professional league losing 15 players?
The point is that SA does produce a lot of very good rugby players. "Better" is probably just a matter of taste.
@@mallencolly South Africa statistically has a lot of more professional rugby players than New Zealand. Along with France it has the most.
Is 64million population
Danny Care's whole premise based on back to back cups. Negates nz playing against a one player advantage and Jordy Barrett missing a sitter
The second team beat new zealand before worlcup twickinum game
O, please Care !! You dont know what you are talking about .South Africa's 2nd team will not beat NZ .Dream on !!!
England under deliver !
Esterhuizen is a better Centre than any all black Centre currently and he can’t make the team
Somoa and Tonga are producing better players than New Zealand.
what a crock. SA only just beat the AB's twice. AB's would comfortably beat SA 2nd team.
Add this to your queue of DEBATABLE statements - Rassie Erasmus is the GOAT of International Rugby Union coaches.... or Andre Joubert and Marius Jonker are the worst products of South African rugby EVER.
When you say Andre Joubert, are you referring Andre Joubert the full back from the '95 WC-winning team? I hope not. A side story, watching a game between SA and Scotland, there was a classic Scottish commentator whose name i forget, but he described AJ in this way, with a strong Scottish accent: Built like a Rhino, but with the speed of a cheetah. :)
Let’s not forget the 300 players in Europe at the moment. The abundance of talent makes NZ look ordinary.
@@malcolmvanhilten125 lol, No, not the Rolls Royce of Rugby, no. I meant the bliksemse ref. I thought the juxtaposition of Joubert with Jonker would have been a clue!
Let me destroy Danny Care’s argument:
AB’s first XV are BETTER than the Boks first XV. It’s proven. Both games in the Rugby Championship, even track back 10 games = AB’s are always ahead, starters vs starters. It’s actually been the biggest topic how the AB’s bench them down. Last 20! This is known facts lol that’s not even mentioning this is a REBUILD AB’s 👀
Secondly, let me remind everyone that a 14 man AB’s, (labelled weak by the media) score 3 times, with one disallowed and missed two kicks to lose the World Cup Final. The Boks couldn’t score ONCE and relied on Pollards 100% boot to win. These are all cold hard FACTS 😂 But the media will have you believe they are the greatest squad ever. Miles ahead that even their 2nd unit could beat the AB’s 🤦🏽♂️🤔
Still salty😂
Blah blah blah. Woulda coulda shoulda!
Ifs, buts and what ifs.....scoreboard is what matters. Another 12months under Razor and this discussion can maybe change, but for now DC has a point
Looks at the scoreboard, mate.
Sure have a lot of ifs and buts in this argument 😅😅
Did Danny Care not watch the game where the Boks needed a knock on try to scrape by the ABs? Lol even the second game was close.
Ardie Savea being the current poty negates his other point as well. Both teams have players that would start in either side.
He needs to stop pretending he knows SH rugby
The commenters who think NZ imports players also lack knowledge of NZ. Virtually every AB born outside of NZ still learnt their rugby in NZ. Virtually all of them have kiwi accents too.
I bet alot of them don't realise alot of the pacific island teams have more NZ born players than locally born as well.
Tonga and Samoa create the NZ players 😂😂😂
South Africa in South Africa at the peak of their powers just beat the All Blacks by 4pts & 6pts respectively hardly thrashings, and in the 4pt win they were awarded a try that was a CLEAR KNOCK ON. You would’ve thought they won both games by 30 🥴🥴🥴 by the way I’m not arguing that the Boks aren’t better right now (they are look at the trophy cabinet) but 2nd team beating the All Blacks best team? Nah not having it. Would loved to have seen the Boks play in NZ this yr cos I don’t think they win. They barely won in their own backyard.
The best ever All Black side in 2015 won the semi against the Boks a mighty 2 points. What u going on about?