A Sunday morning basic drive to see if PHEVs can truly be driven in electric mode! I probably want to adapt this test to include one or two exits of highway driving, but the idea still stands. Panamera is a PHEV that doesn’t make electric feel terrible, which can’t be said for many PHEVs! Keep an eye on more in-depth videos with this car coming soon, mostly on my channel “Kyle Conner”. What plug-ins would you like me to bring on these coffee runs?
Bought a Volvo S60 recharge PHEV last fall, absolutely love it. 150Hp electric motor and 40miles electric range is more than enough for me to drive around local in Boston area without turning out the gas engine, and even cruise on highway at 70+ mph.
I've owned three PHEVs from three different automakers (including a 2018 Pan4 E-Hybrid with the smaller 14-kWh battery pack). The RAV4 Prime and the 2022 XC60 T8 ER both have similar-sized battery packs to this Pan4 E-Hybrid that you reviewed here, Kyle, but they get much more range (we get 50 and 40 miles of all-electric range, respectively, in city/town, non-highway driving, < 45 mph). I suspect that the biggest reason for the discrepancy with the Panamera (and Cayenne) E-Hybrid is the having the electric motor put before the transmission so that it powers all four wheels. Toyota Primes and Volvo ER PHEVs put electric motors decoupled from the transmission onto each axle (with the Volvos having electric motors only on the rear axle). So you get better AWD performance in the Porsche E-Hybrids but poorer all-electric range. The other comment I'll make as an avid PHEV owner is this: we drive most of our local miles in all-electric, and mostly on city/town streets at speeds < 40 or 45 mph. This is how PHEVs really are designed to perform: electric-only at speeds < 45 mph or so, and hybrid (electric + ICE, but mostly ICE-only) at speeds > 45 or 50 mph. Driving PHEVs in electric mode only at highway speeds until the battery is depleted is not only stupid, but it's just now how seasoned PHEV drivers drive their PHEVs. So the only thing that makes sense in testing electric-only range on PHEVs is driving them only at speeds < 45 mph. The point is that electric driving is superior to ICE driving in stop-and-go traffic, whereas ICE driving (or hybrid driving) is superior at highway speeds (especially > 50 mph). PHEVs are not BEVs, and aren't driven the same. By the way, I rarely drive my PHEVs until the traction battery is depleted (i.e., < 1 mile estimated range on the car computer), ever, even on long road trips (when I manage my driving and change from hybrid mode to electric-only mode when moving from highway speeds to stop-and-go traffic, and use the ICE to recharge the traction battery when needed); driving in stop-and-go traffic with a PHEV and the ICE on is just absurd, and there isn't much gasoline loss in charging the battery with the ICE vs. driving with the ICE on and traction battery depleted in stop-and-go traffic.
In December I traded my Mach-E for a 2023 Audi Q5 55 TSFI e and love it. Most of the time I drive in all EV mode and not having to stress out when I do a long day trip and even longer travel trips makes traveling more enjoyable.
I think PHEVs are a good option for people that dont want to worry about charging while they are out and about but there are drawbacks. If you can do your daily commute on EV power and then just use the gasoline engine on road trips its a good solution instead of owning two cars.
I love our Pacifica phev. I use electric for 95% of our daily drives and I get the convenience of quick gas fill up on extended family trips, not have to worry or waste time ev charging when we decide to take a spontaneous detour.
I drive an EV6 now but still kept my Clarity PHEV. That thing was my grocery-getter during the pandemic and I filled up once, maybe twice a year. 47 miles of electric range with that back-up gas engine makes it a very useful, no-stress 2nd vehicle.
I used to have a 2020 Audi Q5e and it was awesome. Really powerful electric motor, a pretty good range (if you were cognizant about not slamming your foot down), awesome driving position etc. Ultimately moved to a full EV. PHEV's are great in theory but kind of annoying in practice to keep them plugged in 24/7 (when not driving) and then having to haul around a heavy battery when you've used up all the range.
Kyle, we just took delivery of a 2023 Cayenne EHybrid. Your review of that car helped confirm that the hybrid system was a gem, and it is. We have 1,600 miles on it and 941 of that have been in electric mode. It’s plenty quick, although the extra 40 HP and 7 kWh in the 2024 will be even sweeter! It’s amazing how seamless it is. Truly. On,y thing is the braking to a stop is a little lumpy. Our only complaint. Addressing your “bad”…I’ve never felt any kind of weirdness during power requests when shifting. Also, there is ZERO motor noise in ours, like the Panamera you are driving. I think the Cayenne you had must have had an issue as the used Cayenne we tested before buying ours didn’t have any motor noise either. Way quieter than my Model 3 was. The one bad thing is that it’s not an EV when you want to hoon it. It’s so smooth that you want that Taycan-like acceleration but then you realize you have half the power of a Taycan RWD.
I reeeeeeeally dig this car, I was actually checking them out online recently. Imagine having top notch build quality and materials, with some green driving around town and zero range anxiety and lots of power on the road. Will you have more vids on this? Testing out the ICE/ PHEV parts? Range test etc.
God the amount of clutter in the steering wheel, dash, center console is crazy. I don’t think it would have bothered me in the past, but after having a Rivian for a couple of months I am so impressed with how they pulled off such a clean look with just the right number of hard buttons and one steering wheel stock.
You're always talking about hitting the throttle hard with a cold engine as a negative of PHEV's. A couple points about that. Any ICE engine begins the trip cold and you probably shouldn't go WOT at that moment. PHEV's have the added ability to gently ramp up load on the ICE as it's warming up. My Wrangler PHEV does exactly this. I can easily pass the Starbucks test in my Jeep Wrangler 4xe, which I'm guessing is among the least efficient PHEV's on the road.
My RAV4 Prime has a cycle when you start the ICE it still runs off the electric and runs the engine RPM low while it warms up for a couple of minutes. I think the idea of going full throttle on a cold ICE in a PHEV is a non-issue as software controls this stuff, it doesn't let the engine go to redline during warmup anyway.
It's tough to see the point of an expensive, performance PHEV. Plugin hybrid are fantastic financially and just as green as an EV. That's where they make sense.
I've had this car for a couple years now, I used to use the EV a lot to work and back and errands, and i would get 1200 miles more or less on each tank, its a wonderful car, though its too fun to not kick it out of EV and let it growl, the performance on EV alone isnt so good, it is just a comfy silent ride though, all in all i love that car
You make valid points. PHEV is great for the average driver that has less than a 40ish mile total daily need. A driving enthusiast is likely better off with EV or ICE, because they would deplete a PHEV battery rather quickly.
The new 24 Cayenne phev gets an all new upgraded powertrain and battery. It goes from 17 miles of electric only range to around 30 miles. I wonder if they'll do the same with a new Panamera.
So the engine can charge the batteries when parked, but is it more efficient to charge like this than it would be to just drive on gasoline? Any idea how much electricity you could get from a gallon of gas, vs how far that gallon would drive you down the road?
The gen2 Volt had around 100kW of max power, which was perfectly serviceable; not sure why it's stressed so much here. What attracted me to that was at the time, no other plug-in had equal performance on electric vs hybrid. One could say performance was left on the table then, as hybrid should result in more, but at the same time, usually it was the electric performance that was nerfed to the point of barely usable in plug-in vehicles. More recent plug-in hybrids have decent electric power, which is nice; the Rav4 Prime is a prime example of excellent e-power with even more on tap for hybrid mode.
I've had a RAV4 Prime over 2 years now, LOVE PHEVs. It has lots of EV power and lots of EV range. I traded my Tesla in for it and NO regrets whatsoever. Had too many quality issues with the Tesla, got tired of 5 service visits per year.
Kyle has made a lot of negative comments about PHEV’s in his video and I’m always wondering if he understands the RAV4 Prime. The range is good, the transition from HV to EV is seamless, it has good EV horsepower and very good horsepower in HV mode. The Panamera is a cool vehicle but not terribly relevant for most of us due to the cost. But I’m here because I like Kyle’s videos and it’s interesting to see him say something positive about a PHEV. Seems like he’s got a cold today.
I owned a Rav4 Prime and he never talks about it in his reviews. All his cons like only 20-30 miles of range, lackluster power, and it turning the ICE on when flooring it are not at all relevent to the Prime. I could get 45-50 miles of range, and if you have it in EV mode you can floor it and it will get up to speed quick and the engine doesn't kick on.
I have the same engine in my Q8; i love the car but the difference in the winter vs Summer with the battery is ridiculous. i range from 15 miles to 30 miles depending on the weather! Weird you said the engine is quieter, i have never heard the electric motor in my Q8.
For the Cayenne, I heard an 80% increase in range. It was around 17 miles, so that's 30 miles. I still feel that's a bit low. Kind of the bottom end of acceptable.
@@jeffs6090 Right. Still largely unacceptable, but we learn to take what we can get from Porsche! The performance makes up for the rest. On mine, the 13-15 mile EV range is enough to go to the store and back. 30 miles of range (if that is the case on the new one) feels like a real luxury. haha
People like myself are skeptical, still not enough charging stations !!! Plus alot of them don't work, to get a big enough ev like the x is way to expensive for the average income. There will need to be something like palisade size at a 50 to 60,000 price range. Most people don't want an other mortgage payment.
Depends on what you define by driving pleasure. The Taycan handles far closer to a 911 than the Panamera, but the Panamera feels a little more like a Grand Tourer in terms of that elegant, boat-like driving experience compared to the Taycan's more nimble playfulness. If you have home charging I'd go with the Taycan when it gets its refresh if you're looking for driving experience, but that's just my personal take.
A lot of the things you brought up that you would look for in a PHEV are things the Chevy Volt has had since the refresh in 2016. I still have no idea why Chevy discontinued the best PHEV ever made.
Maybe this is blasphemy to say, but the Panamera Hybrid really looks like a larger, fancier Model 3. Especially in that blue. They have similar headlights, three hole front bumper, the “fastback but a sedan” sloping roof that meets up at the tail without the typical trunk line. Similar body lines on the doors, windows and hip line too.
Yeah I live on the east coast and can definitely say EVs are far more rare than what I see on your videos. Rarely do I even see one on the road with maybe two or 3 Teslas a week. Ever since they came out, I've only ever seen a single Mach E and a single Ioniq 5. Otherwise for the most-part they're nonexistent.
Depends on your state. I live in NC around Raleigh area. I see Teslas everywhere. Often see ID4, often see Bolts, starting to see a lot of Kia EV6, a few Mach-e, starting to see several Ioniq 5, and even the occasional Porsche Taycan. Never seen Polestar though and very rarely have I seen an I-Pace
![[DRAGON BALL LEGENDS REVEALS ＆ STUFF] LEGENDS FESTIVAL 2024 Special Edition Part 2](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/af0phKxitX8/mqdefault.jpg)
A Sunday morning basic drive to see if PHEVs can truly be driven in electric mode! I probably want to adapt this test to include one or two exits of highway driving, but the idea still stands.
Panamera is a PHEV that doesn’t make electric feel terrible, which can’t be said for many PHEVs! Keep an eye on more in-depth videos with this car coming soon, mostly on my channel “Kyle Conner”.
What plug-ins would you like me to bring on these coffee runs?
What about the RAV4 prime, there is even a Mercedes PHEV with almost 100 miles of range
BMW X5 45e
Outlander phev with chademo test lol!
Any Volvo T8!
Jeep Wrangler 4xe
In Europe we have MB GLE 350de and 350e. 26kW battery, 100km of range in summer, CCS2 60kW charger
Bought a Volvo S60 recharge PHEV last fall, absolutely love it. 150Hp electric motor and 40miles electric range is more than enough for me to drive around local in Boston area without turning out the gas engine, and even cruise on highway at 70+ mph.
Eh it's a Volvo
I've owned three PHEVs from three different automakers (including a 2018 Pan4 E-Hybrid with the smaller 14-kWh battery pack). The RAV4 Prime and the 2022 XC60 T8 ER both have similar-sized battery packs to this Pan4 E-Hybrid that you reviewed here, Kyle, but they get much more range (we get 50 and 40 miles of all-electric range, respectively, in city/town, non-highway driving, < 45 mph). I suspect that the biggest reason for the discrepancy with the Panamera (and Cayenne) E-Hybrid is the having the electric motor put before the transmission so that it powers all four wheels. Toyota Primes and Volvo ER PHEVs put electric motors decoupled from the transmission onto each axle (with the Volvos having electric motors only on the rear axle). So you get better AWD performance in the Porsche E-Hybrids but poorer all-electric range. The other comment I'll make as an avid PHEV owner is this: we drive most of our local miles in all-electric, and mostly on city/town streets at speeds < 40 or 45 mph. This is how PHEVs really are designed to perform: electric-only at speeds < 45 mph or so, and hybrid (electric + ICE, but mostly ICE-only) at speeds > 45 or 50 mph. Driving PHEVs in electric mode only at highway speeds until the battery is depleted is not only stupid, but it's just now how seasoned PHEV drivers drive their PHEVs. So the only thing that makes sense in testing electric-only range on PHEVs is driving them only at speeds < 45 mph. The point is that electric driving is superior to ICE driving in stop-and-go traffic, whereas ICE driving (or hybrid driving) is superior at highway speeds (especially > 50 mph). PHEVs are not BEVs, and aren't driven the same. By the way, I rarely drive my PHEVs until the traction battery is depleted (i.e., < 1 mile estimated range on the car computer), ever, even on long road trips (when I manage my driving and change from hybrid mode to electric-only mode when moving from highway speeds to stop-and-go traffic, and use the ICE to recharge the traction battery when needed); driving in stop-and-go traffic with a PHEV and the ICE on is just absurd, and there isn't much gasoline loss in charging the battery with the ICE vs. driving with the ICE on and traction battery depleted in stop-and-go traffic.
In December I traded my Mach-E for a 2023 Audi Q5 55 TSFI e and love it. Most of the time I drive in all EV mode and not having to stress out when I do a long day trip and even longer travel trips makes traveling more enjoyable.
I think PHEVs are a good option for people that dont want to worry about charging while they are out and about but there are drawbacks. If you can do your daily commute on EV power and then just use the gasoline engine on road trips its a good solution instead of owning two cars.
I love our Pacifica phev. I use electric for 95% of our daily drives and I get the convenience of quick gas fill up on extended family trips, not have to worry or waste time ev charging when we decide to take a spontaneous detour.
I drive an EV6 now but still kept my Clarity PHEV. That thing was my grocery-getter during the pandemic and I filled up once, maybe twice a year. 47 miles of electric range with that back-up gas engine makes it a very useful, no-stress 2nd vehicle.
One day I WILL own a porsche. Perhaps when I retire.
I used to have a 2020 Audi Q5e and it was awesome. Really powerful electric motor, a pretty good range (if you were cognizant about not slamming your foot down), awesome driving position etc. Ultimately moved to a full EV. PHEV's are great in theory but kind of annoying in practice to keep them plugged in 24/7 (when not driving) and then having to haul around a heavy battery when you've used up all the range.
Have you driven the Toyota PHEV? 50 mile electric range and a 2.5 litre Atkinson cycle petrol engine, a great PHEV for everyday use.
Kyle, we just took delivery of a 2023 Cayenne EHybrid. Your review of that car helped confirm that the hybrid system was a gem, and it is. We have 1,600 miles on it and 941 of that have been in electric mode. It’s plenty quick, although the extra 40 HP and 7 kWh in the 2024 will be even sweeter!
It’s amazing how seamless it is. Truly. On,y thing is the braking to a stop is a little lumpy. Our only complaint.
Addressing your “bad”…I’ve never felt any kind of weirdness during power requests when shifting. Also, there is ZERO motor noise in ours, like the Panamera you are driving. I think the Cayenne you had must have had an issue as the used Cayenne we tested before buying ours didn’t have any motor noise either. Way quieter than my Model 3 was.
The one bad thing is that it’s not an EV when you want to hoon it. It’s so smooth that you want that Taycan-like acceleration but then you realize you have half the power of a Taycan RWD.
Wonder how sarcastic Kyle was: "Guys from high school still working there, so that's pretty cool" 😂
pretty rude
What do you think of the bmw X5 45e?
I reeeeeeeally dig this car, I was actually checking them out online recently. Imagine having top notch build quality and materials, with some green driving around town and zero range anxiety and lots of power on the road. Will you have more vids on this? Testing out the ICE/ PHEV parts? Range test etc.
God the amount of clutter in the steering wheel, dash, center console is crazy. I don’t think it would have bothered me in the past, but after having a Rivian for a couple of months I am so impressed with how they pulled off such a clean look with just the right number of hard buttons and one steering wheel stock.
this vehicle is absolutely gorgeous
Electric motors make full torque at any RPM (in principle). Torque depends more or less linearly on current through the motor.
You're always talking about hitting the throttle hard with a cold engine as a negative of PHEV's. A couple points about that. Any ICE engine begins the trip cold and you probably shouldn't go WOT at that moment. PHEV's have the added ability to gently ramp up load on the ICE as it's warming up. My Wrangler PHEV does exactly this. I can easily pass the Starbucks test in my Jeep Wrangler 4xe, which I'm guessing is among the least efficient PHEV's on the road.
My RAV4 Prime has a cycle when you start the ICE it still runs off the electric and runs the engine RPM low while it warms up for a couple of minutes. I think the idea of going full throttle on a cold ICE in a PHEV is a non-issue as software controls this stuff, it doesn't let the engine go to redline during warmup anyway.
It's tough to see the point of an expensive, performance PHEV. Plugin hybrid are fantastic financially and just as green as an EV. That's where they make sense.
I've had this car for a couple years now, I used to use the EV a lot to work and back and errands, and i would get 1200 miles more or less on each tank, its a wonderful car, though its too fun to not kick it out of EV and let it growl, the performance on EV alone isnt so good, it is just a comfy silent ride though, all in all i love that car
You make valid points. PHEV is great for the average driver that has less than a 40ish mile total daily need. A driving enthusiast is likely better off with EV or ICE, because they would deplete a PHEV battery rather quickly.
The new 24 Cayenne phev gets an all new upgraded powertrain and battery. It goes from 17 miles of electric only range to around 30 miles. I wonder if they'll do the same with a new Panamera.
So the engine can charge the batteries when parked, but is it more efficient to charge like this than it would be to just drive on gasoline? Any idea how much electricity you could get from a gallon of gas, vs how far that gallon would drive you down the road?
And it starts at only $109,000.00
Yup … I will never own one 😢
That's nonsense. Just get an EV at that price.
And the base spec doesn’t even come with blind spot monitoring or adaptive cruise control. An acceptable spec car is easily over 120k
Kyle the 2016 chevy Volt will stay in ev mode
What's the point??
Have you looked at the RAD4 Hybrid and the Prius and given a review?
But if maximum PHEV economy/range is the goal, would you even get a Porsche at all? Who is the target market for this car?
The gen2 Volt had around 100kW of max power, which was perfectly serviceable; not sure why it's stressed so much here. What attracted me to that was at the time, no other plug-in had equal performance on electric vs hybrid. One could say performance was left on the table then, as hybrid should result in more, but at the same time, usually it was the electric performance that was nerfed to the point of barely usable in plug-in vehicles. More recent plug-in hybrids have decent electric power, which is nice; the Rav4 Prime is a prime example of excellent e-power with even more on tap for hybrid mode.
I've had a RAV4 Prime over 2 years now, LOVE PHEVs. It has lots of EV power and lots of EV range. I traded my Tesla in for it and NO regrets whatsoever. Had too many quality issues with the Tesla, got tired of 5 service visits per year.
Kyle has made a lot of negative comments about PHEV’s in his video and I’m always wondering if he understands the RAV4 Prime. The range is good, the transition from HV to EV is seamless, it has good EV horsepower and very good horsepower in HV mode. The Panamera is a cool vehicle but not terribly relevant for most of us due to the cost. But I’m here because I like Kyle’s videos and it’s interesting to see him say something positive about a PHEV. Seems like he’s got a cold today.
I owned a Rav4 Prime and he never talks about it in his reviews. All his cons like only 20-30 miles of range, lackluster power, and it turning the ICE on when flooring it are not at all relevent to the Prime. I could get 45-50 miles of range, and if you have it in EV mode you can floor it and it will get up to speed quick and the engine doesn't kick on.
I have the same engine in my Q8; i love the car but the difference in the winter vs Summer with the battery is ridiculous. i range from 15 miles to 30 miles depending on the weather! Weird you said the engine is quieter, i have never heard the electric motor in my Q8.
my concern, being an e-hybrid porsche owner, is the range. I am hoping the range improves on the 2024s
The Taycan has good electric range.
For the Cayenne, I heard an 80% increase in range. It was around 17 miles, so that's 30 miles. I still feel that's a bit low. Kind of the bottom end of acceptable.
@@jeffs6090 Right. Still largely unacceptable, but we learn to take what we can get from Porsche! The performance makes up for the rest. On mine, the 13-15 mile EV range is enough to go to the store and back. 30 miles of range (if that is the case on the new one) feels like a real luxury. haha
I waited SO LONG to find an i7 with all the packages I wanted, including automatic doors. They ... indeed always fight me.
People like myself are skeptical, still not enough charging stations !!! Plus alot of them don't work, to get a big enough ev like the x is way to expensive for the average income. There will need to be something like palisade size at a 50 to 60,000 price range. Most people don't want an other mortgage payment.
In terms of Driving pleasure, is Panamera better than Taycan ?
Depends on what you define by driving pleasure. The Taycan handles far closer to a 911 than the Panamera, but the Panamera feels a little more like a Grand Tourer in terms of that elegant, boat-like driving experience compared to the Taycan's more nimble playfulness. If you have home charging I'd go with the Taycan when it gets its refresh if you're looking for driving experience, but that's just my personal take.
A lot of the things you brought up that you would look for in a PHEV are things the Chevy Volt has had since the refresh in 2016. I still have no idea why Chevy discontinued the best PHEV ever made.
Maybe this is blasphemy to say, but the Panamera Hybrid really looks like a larger, fancier Model 3. Especially in that blue.
They have similar headlights, three hole front bumper, the “fastback but a sedan” sloping roof that meets up at the tail without the typical trunk line. Similar body lines on the doors, windows and hip line too.
I say try another German, like a Q5 e. Or one of the Volvo wagon PHEVs, provided you can find one lol
we should all be using narrow tires so insects don't squish
I wonder if it's possible to have a horse-and-buggy hybrid, so it can also do just electric driving.
I dare you to try a Prius Prime
Like the car. BUT quality from Porsche? Just wait till you get the first repair bill!
PHEV need to be fully powered electric driving system and basically a small gas generator just to charge the battery while driving
Lmao
Ooft the 360p
Where is Alissa?
They broke up. He has a new girlfriend. Made me sad even though it’s none of my business.
Read his most recent video on his channel, he comments about it.
He's finally happy now!
Yeah I live on the east coast and can definitely say EVs are far more rare than what I see on your videos. Rarely do I even see one on the road with maybe two or 3 Teslas a week. Ever since they came out, I've only ever seen a single Mach E and a single Ioniq 5. Otherwise for the most-part they're nonexistent.
Depends on your state. I live in NC around Raleigh area. I see Teslas everywhere. Often see ID4, often see Bolts, starting to see a lot of Kia EV6, a few Mach-e, starting to see several Ioniq 5, and even the occasional Porsche Taycan. Never seen Polestar though and very rarely have I seen an I-Pace
What a waste. My girlfriends vibrator has a bigger battery