When you first started this video I was completely lost, and by the end I thought that is very well explained and a awesome trick I’d never seen and think I could use as well. Thanks again for bringing the knowledge
Great video Joe. Can’t tell you how many journeymen I have worked with that struggle with finding zero with an indicator, even a hole! Please make a video that shows how to check “squareness” of an angle plate with an indicator.
As always, thank you Joe for sharing another fine technique. And more importantly, continue to challenge us to think and use available tools to solve various problems.
Good stuff Joe. Years ago, the machinist that mentored me was insistent on me buying a chair type edgefinder. Of course, I bought it, and blew about 100 bux on it, and there it sits in my box, pretty much un-used. I prefer using the method you describe here along with an out of spec gage block.
Joe, I enjoy watching your videos man. You have the heart of a teacher. Your video on turning thin parts aswell as the o-ring expansion tool for holding small parts helped me a lot. This comes from a millennial who absolutely hates asking the old guys at the shop for help. Most guys out there who know their stuff regarding machining principles tend to be entitled a**holes who act like they were always machining prodigy's and never made a mistake. Most of the younger generation of machinist really appreciate the old guys like yourself who offer detailed explanations on principles and why things work. And not just "here do it this way and dont ask why it works because i dont have the patience to help you think for yourself." Anyways a video on reamers would really help out. I had a situation where no matter what I did I couldn't indicate my turnout below .003". Turns out collet was bad. I was stuck for a good hour until I narrowed down the problem.
Thumbs up to the Lincoln County High School and their teacher for using your videos in their class, That is as good of a compliment as it gets to your videos.
Hey Joe, GM required this technique to pick up edges for mill work. Edge finders were forbidden due to inaccuracies. The method seems clumsy until you have done it a couple of times. Im glad you used the "shim" when you were on you last pickup. I actually keep a hardened block inside my interapid indicator case, thanks Joe Mike - Plus8Precision
@@Plus8Precision I am assuming you mean General Motors in an engineering development shop enviroment here. If you are being relied upon to make high tolerance parts for prototypes then I can assume you (you is a general term here) have the skill level required to produce a chair accurate to .0001. Did they allow shop made angle plates? Parallels? Vices? Sine Bars? Vee Blocks? A chair isn't that difficult. Especially if it is made in two pieces
@@mpetersen6 Yes, General Motors, first I didn’t say i agreed with the technique I said that’s what they required. And this was at a tool and die shop where the tightest tolerance held would be .001". This die shop produced large class “A” surface dies. It was definitely over kill for this type of die work. And it faded fast as a process for picking up edges or “J” corners. Processes come and go, somebody maybe an engineer says that this accuracy is needed so it’s done for a while or until that engineer moves on to another job. Then everybody goes back to business as usual. Doing what is needed to get and accurate pick-up on a detail. Back in the day Jig bores and Jig grinders were the most accurate machine tools in the shops. And what was used to pick up the details on those machines chairs. The machine intensive strategies used in today’s tool and die shops is dominated by CNC. Mike - Plus8Precision
Now with that known zero on the dial indicator, you can measure any edge location on your machined part with using the digital readout. keep watching Joe's videos and he will show you many more. It is possible even on a milling machine to accurately pick up an edge as close as the digital readout will repeat to ' the resolution of the readout'. good video Joe.
@@joepie221 yes. With the rotary encoders on the Moore jig gender that we had,the most accurate was still just dialing in one direction. Playing with 'tenth' dimensions.
Joe, Thank you for all the training and advice. I recently retired from a techncal career that never got me close to machining parts , always had to watch how parts was made for me to use. Bought a nice lathe and milling machine . Building Steward casting kit steam engines .. enjoying it!
Great video joe very good that your dedicated to supporting every level of knowledge and skill even though it may be just a refresher for some. I applaud your efforts Thank you
Its sometimes hard to judge what is too basic, but then its not basic if you don't know it. There will be some overlap of material, but someone will appreciate it. Thanks for all your comments.
Interesting video and technique, Joe! I always say (mentally) "positive" and "negative" when using the dial indicator with positive being clockwise on the dial. Also, it seems that clockwise, or "positive" always means more pressure against the ball regardless of which side of the ball is being "pressed". Not sure if that is the case on every brand of lever type indicator, however.
I have never had to do this but something similar quite often, finding the centre of a large shaft by touching up top and bottom and splitting the difference in readings in table travel so the dial test indicator reads the same top and bottom. It would be nice to have the luxury of an electronic edge finder that does not have to turn! A cheat lazy-man way on the dial test indicator system is to create a step equal to the radius of the edge finder with two gauge blocks which means the spindle is parked over the edge!
Tom L has a video about what he called "chair" type edge finders, which is a little block that registers against the edge of your work, and has a slot that you can center the axis on using a DTI. Then if you know where the slot is in relation to the edge, typically you would want it centered but there's no reason it has to be, you have your spindle located with respect to the work. It's a similar principle as what's shown in the video, but probably a bit more convenient if you do a lot of edge finding, also if the tool is accurately centered you don't need to worry about getting an accurate offset with the dials
Joe you have to be one of the best tradesmen I have seen. I’ve also had the advantage of working with a few. Your skill and abilities in the shop are truly amazing.
That's funny. He didn't Even explain that the "shim" must be flat and parallel on both sides. It's a must. Doing this method with a unparallel unflat shim will yield worse results than an edge finder. Basically you must use a gage block. Anything else will not be accurate.
Great video Joe. You should mention (if it isn't already obvious) that the side edge needs to be a finished surface and vertical. The closer the ball of the indicator is to the top plane when indicating either the true or projected surface, the less critical a true vertical surface becomes.
This was absolutely the best(most accurate) way to find an edge that I have seen on youtube to date, and I watch a lot of channels. Thank you very much. I look forward to seeing the rest of your up coming indicator videos.
Love this! The point made about being able to double check location with the dial after the initial pick up (as opposed to using an edge finder), is well made. I certainly see were this method may lend itself to more accuracy. If I could get my guys to watch your channel on a regular basis, it would save me alot of work! Keep up the good work and thank you!
Another great video as usual. I'm a little old and a little slow. You left me in the dust a mile back. I'll have to watch it a few more times. Thanks for sharing with us. Dan
Have you ever heard of a “machinist’s chair”? Hard to describe it but it can be held against the ‘inside back’ against a machined edge with the ‘legs’ sticking up. The ‘legs’ are two solid surfaces that are precisely ground to be both parallel to the ‘inside back’ and equidistant from it. You can tram the two inside surfaces of the ‘legs’ to precisely pick up the edge.
Chris Stephens I think it was something SPI sold at one point (80’s - 90’s). It was kinda pricey due the size of it so I only knew one tool maker who had one though a couple of guys made their own. Do you have a link for the item you mentioned? I hadn’t heard of it.
10:01 I've got an idea for perfect alignment. 1) Draw a line in the middle of the tape first (on the tape-roll itself, can be done by hand or by bending a ruler), 2) Cut off a piece of tape to cover both pieces to mark, 3 Cut the tape between the pieces with a razerblade/stanleyknife. Thanks for sharing and teaching your skills!
Am i the only one who desires an oversize test indicator wall clock now? I love quality measuring equipment,i collect older MIJ mitutoyo stuff and have amassed a pretty decent selection to date! A dozen or so calipers mostly dial, full boxed set of mics with standards,depth gauge,bore gauge and a few dial indicators to name just a few.I just grab stuff if it comes up at right price or i need it,being in a metric country makes the imperial stuff dirt cheap,suits me well as i can work with either but have switched to preferring imperial in my older years. I only have one test indicator and its probably my favourite little tool! It was given to me by a retired toolmaker, its a Swiss made Tesa 1/2 thou job.
@@joecnc3341 just measure the clock you will use grab a test indicator to measure once you figure the ratio just upscale the measurements from the indicator. or make a pantograph out of flat bar
@@joecnc3341Joe, did you ever get around to making a set of drawings for the Dial Indicator wall clock? If so where can I get them? Enjoying your videos.
In my day the best and only edge finder was a Starrett. the only indicator was the Starrett Last Word then changed to Interapid. Accuracy first speed second. The process explained used to be called Dead Zero.
Not so much when indicating but when milling it is important to be mindful of backlash so that the forces of machining are in the opposite direction you moved the table last. In other words always feeding the table towards your tool not away.
Mount your dti to a spindle tool and then you can just sweep one side, then the other. Turn the spindle to sweep and reverse sides. No mucking about with any projected planes. This would be for finding dead center. To find a hole do the same but to the inside instead of outside Er collets work well, interapids have a grab bar on the back.
Another Great Video, Joe Pie. What would be interesting to compare - is the accuracy of an edge finder versus the indicator? How close does an indicator really get you? My "gut feel" is probably 0.001"-0.003" - but we might be surprised. That would be interesting to compare
Think about it. Edge finder.....does it kick out at exactly the moment it should? ----does your table move exactly the distance you dial in? Then maybe you're over the edge. Indicator......Sweep until each surface reads the same value or zero. Done. Nothing has to move to the edge because you are already over it. I say the indicator is far more precise than an edge finder.
@@joepie221 - I totally agree with you - the indicator would be the most precise way of finding the edge (and I really appreciate you putting such great videos together showing the proper way to do these things). I guess my point was - How accurate is an edge finder in comparison? Is it typically out 0.001-0.005? or? with a skilled machinist, of course. It would be interesting to know how close an you get on average with an edge finder...
Great content Joe and thats great that a school uses examples of techniques that you use. You sure you didn't have an earthquake when stuff was falling lol that's how my day was
Dear Joe I sit here with a pile of end mills that are worn on the last 100 thou of the end, and perfectly sharp most of the length above that. This has gotten me to questioning the normal way most RUclipsrs show for roughing metal removal - sweep back and forth across the face taking a wide but shallow cut. I’m just going to give some ball park numbers here - not optimized for MRR, etc. I just wanted to get a few numbers on paper to illustrate what I mean. A typical value for a ¾ end mill might be .600 wide and 0.100 deep. That would remove 0.060 cubic inches per inch travelled. What about making a DEEP but narrow pass instead? How about 1.000 deep and a step over of 0.060 ? That would remove the same 0.060 cubic inches per inch traveled, but it would use more of the end mill’s cutting edges. I know that the numbers will need to be adjusted according to the HP available, material, type of cutter, number of flutes, etc… But right now I just want to ask why do people seem to favor wide and shallow instead of narrow and deep? What am I missing? Thanks Dan
I'm not sure exactly what you mean, but I DO see end mills often used for cuts they are not ideal for. Not the best tool for the job. Both manual and CNC, but the reason is.......I don't know. Probably to save time, but at the expense of wasting money and energy because they are expensive and not easy to re-sharpen. End mills are mainly for creating slots or irregular shape pockets. Or you can plunge cut also, tho for the sake of cost OR efficiency a drill is always superior, but then you'd have to change tools..... For any facing operation where a face-mill will fit, even a small one, then a face mill or flycutter is going to be the better and more efficient tool for that job. For taking heavy cuts on the side there are roughing end mills which work very well, but that would require a tool change again for a NICE finish. Easily I can imagine using 3,4 or 5 different tools to do the same operations a single end mill could do. People aren't doing that it is to save time, tho I don't necessarily blame them. I might too if I had enough money to burn.
Use a gage block instead of a piece of raw stock. Even that tiny piece of raw stock you set against the 123 block could have a dip in the middle of it in both sides. Raw stock usually does because of the cutting forces used to cut it. This is why when you stone a piece of metal (any kind) the edges are always scratched first because they are higher. Flatness is extremely hard to measure accurately and even cnc milled surfaces with sharp tools end up leaving a finish around .0005 to .001 flat on a piece that small. (Because of holding pressure). I guarantee that "shim" you used was at least over .001 flat. Every thousanth matters and I know I'm being picky. But there's all different levels of accuracy. I'm just putting a few add ons here. I've never been very good with etiquette however it is not my intent to offend. I just want people to not overlook anything. Everything affects accuracy.
The irregular surfaces you speak of are not always high on the edges on both sides. If the material is crowned on one side, then the edges will be high on the other. This extrusion deformity is not usually present on the bar ends and should not effect this technique. If NASA precision is required, naturally take the appropriate steps to assure everything is held to that standard along the way. No offense taken.
Simply wring a .1 slip against a 1 inch slip and hold this against the edge, then clock the centre of the 1 inch slip and move the table.500 inch.This will guarantee you are on the edge, it’s quick and the most accurate way.
You have helped me inprove my technick a 150 %. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. I now have a question about my chushman 3 jaw Chuck, the scroll part of the Jaws are flush with the hard Jaws,is this acceptable or should they be recsecd, The Jaws are Bell mouted and I am getting ready to grind the.
I'm trying to think of a situation where this is better than indicating a chair type edge finder. I guess with the chair you are still transferring your edge and are coupled to the accuracy of the chair.
Not at all surprised that a school follows you Joe. You are not only a great machinist but also a natural teacher.
When you first started this video I was completely lost, and by the end I thought that is very well explained and a awesome trick I’d never seen and think I could use as well. Thanks again for bringing the knowledge
Great video Joe. Can’t tell you how many journeymen I have worked with that struggle with finding zero with an indicator, even a hole! Please make a video that shows how to check “squareness” of an angle plate with an indicator.
As always, thank you Joe for sharing another fine technique. And more importantly, continue to challenge us to think and use available tools to solve various problems.
Good stuff Joe. Years ago, the machinist that mentored me was insistent on me buying a chair type edgefinder. Of course, I bought it, and blew about 100 bux on it, and there it sits in my box, pretty much un-used. I prefer using the method you describe here along with an out of spec gage block.
If the chair is accurate, it pretty fast. Give it a second chance.
Joe, I enjoy watching your videos man. You have the heart of a teacher. Your video on turning thin parts aswell as the o-ring expansion tool for holding small parts helped me a lot.
This comes from a millennial who absolutely hates asking the old guys at the shop for help. Most guys out there who know their stuff regarding machining principles tend to be entitled a**holes who act like they were always machining prodigy's and never made a mistake. Most of the younger generation of machinist really appreciate the old guys like yourself who offer detailed explanations on principles and why things work. And not just "here do it this way and dont ask why it works because i dont have the patience to help you think for yourself."
Anyways a video on reamers would really help out. I had a situation where no matter what I did I couldn't indicate my turnout below .003". Turns out collet was bad. I was stuck for a good hour until I narrowed down the problem.
Ever since I've watched you, Joe, I KNEW your videos are classroom material quality. And I'm now proved right. CONGRATULATIONS.
Thank you. I'm flattered by that.
I was studying engineering at college about a century ago. I wish my tutors explained as clearly and positively as you do.
Thumbs up to the Lincoln County High School and their teacher for using your videos in their class, That is as good of a compliment as it gets to your videos.
John Savoy well said sir👍
Joe, you are my go-to guru for engineering education and explanation. Another excellent video, thanks
Another Great Video! Thank You Joe Pie! A shop teacher taught me this many moons ago. But I'm glad you did a video of how to do this.
That is a cool technique, I've never tried edge finding with a lever DTI. Thanks for showing us, I'm going to try that one!
The use of the words Brown and Sharpe was a good, simple idea that I would never have thought to do. Always good tips in these vids! Thx..g
It will help.
The most epic thumbnail.
An indicator series? Awesome! Keep 'em coming!
Love all your videos. Thanks for talking the time to answer questions and respond to comments. Few do.
Thanks. I think its important to stay engaged. It shows you care.
I love that Texas size indicator. Thanks for the great information.
Didnt see the hands move when he moved the tip though. Might need calibration.
Hey Joe,
GM required this technique to pick up edges for mill work. Edge finders were forbidden due to inaccuracies. The method seems clumsy until you have done it a couple of times. Im glad you used the "shim" when you were on you last pickup. I actually keep a hardened block inside my interapid indicator case, thanks Joe
Mike - Plus8Precision
That's why you can use a Tool Makers Chair or Corner Block. My Corner Block actually has two magnets on it so it stays on the part.
@@mpetersen6 GM didnt want chairs used because some are shop made. A block is a block which leaves less room for error.
Mike - Plus8Precision
@@Plus8Precision
I am assuming you mean General Motors in an engineering development shop enviroment here. If you are being relied upon to make high tolerance parts for prototypes then I can assume you (you is a general term here) have the skill level required to produce a chair accurate to .0001. Did they allow shop made angle plates? Parallels? Vices? Sine Bars? Vee Blocks? A chair isn't that difficult. Especially if it is made in two pieces
@@mpetersen6
Yes, General Motors, first I didn’t say i agreed with the technique I said that’s what they required. And this was at a tool and die shop where the tightest tolerance held would be .001". This die shop produced large class “A” surface dies. It was definitely over kill for this type of die work. And it faded fast as a process for picking up edges or “J” corners. Processes come and go, somebody maybe an engineer says that this accuracy is needed so it’s done for a while or until that engineer moves on to another job. Then everybody goes back to business as usual. Doing what is needed to get and accurate pick-up on a detail.
Back in the day Jig bores and Jig grinders were the most accurate machine tools in the shops. And what was used to pick up the details on those machines chairs. The machine intensive strategies used in today’s tool and die shops is dominated by CNC.
Mike - Plus8Precision
Great topic Joe, I’m left scratching my head more often that not when using a test indicator so this really helps 👌👍
Stay tuned.
Another great video, thanks Joe!
Fabulous. Thanks Joe. I look forward to the rest of this series.
Now with that known zero on the dial indicator, you can measure any edge location on your machined part with using the digital readout. keep watching Joe's videos and he will show you many more. It is possible even on a milling machine to accurately pick up an edge as close as the digital readout will repeat to ' the resolution of the readout'. good video Joe.
Believe it or not, you can be .0008 out of location with a digital with .0005 resolution. .0004 either way before the value on the display changes.
@@joepie221 yes. With the rotary encoders on the Moore jig gender that we had,the most accurate was still just dialing in one direction. Playing with 'tenth' dimensions.
Joe,
Thank you for all the training and advice. I recently retired from a techncal career that never got me close to machining parts , always had to watch how parts was made for me to use. Bought a nice lathe and milling machine . Building Steward casting kit steam engines .. enjoying it!
I enjoy them too. Put 100% effort into every piece.
Watching Joe is always time well spent.
Great video joe very good that your dedicated to supporting every level of knowledge and skill even though it may be just a refresher for some.
I applaud your efforts
Thank you
Its sometimes hard to judge what is too basic, but then its not basic if you don't know it. There will be some overlap of material, but someone will appreciate it. Thanks for all your comments.
@@joepie221 thank you Joe, very much indeed
Interesting video and technique, Joe! I always say (mentally) "positive" and "negative" when using the dial indicator with positive being clockwise on the dial. Also, it seems that clockwise, or "positive" always means more pressure against the ball regardless of which side of the ball is being "pressed". Not sure if that is the case on every brand of lever type indicator, however.
Hi Joe. Good video, I've never used that method but it looks like a great one to have in the back pocket. Oh and nice wall clock. Cheers. Crispin
I have never had to do this but something similar quite often, finding the centre of a large shaft by touching up top and bottom and splitting the difference in readings in table travel so the dial test indicator reads the same top and bottom. It would be nice to have the luxury of an electronic edge finder that does not have to turn! A cheat lazy-man way on the dial test indicator system is to create a step equal to the radius of the edge finder with two gauge blocks which means the spindle is parked over the edge!
Joe, thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience. I loved the shop tour last year.
Tom L has a video about what he called "chair" type edge finders, which is a little block that registers against the edge of your work, and has a slot that you can center the axis on using a DTI. Then if you know where the slot is in relation to the edge, typically you would want it centered but there's no reason it has to be, you have your spindle located with respect to the work. It's a similar principle as what's shown in the video, but probably a bit more convenient if you do a lot of edge finding, also if the tool is accurately centered you don't need to worry about getting an accurate offset with the dials
Ive got the bell set so as not miss any of your great video content
Joe you have to be one of the best tradesmen I have seen. I’ve also had the advantage of working with a few. Your skill and abilities in the shop are truly amazing.
That's funny.
He didn't Even explain that the "shim" must be flat and parallel on both sides. It's a must. Doing this method with a unparallel unflat shim will yield worse results than an edge finder. Basically you must use a gage block. Anything else will not be accurate.
Great video Joe. You should mention (if it isn't already obvious) that the side edge needs to be a finished surface and vertical. The closer the ball of the indicator is to the top plane when indicating either the true or projected surface, the less critical a true vertical surface becomes.
Thats true. It does reduce any possible error.
This was absolutely the best(most accurate) way to find an edge that I have seen on youtube to date, and I watch a lot of channels. Thank you very much. I look forward to seeing the rest of your up coming indicator videos.
P.S. Happy Thanksgiving
Thank you very much. Same to you.
Love this! The point made about being able to double check location with the dial after the initial pick up (as opposed to using an edge finder), is well made. I certainly see were this method may lend itself to more accuracy.
If I could get my guys to watch your channel on a regular basis, it would save me alot of work! Keep up the good work and thank you!
Thanks Joe, another great tip! Best Regards Sarah
YOUR THE MAN, JOE!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you for another very educational video.
I've used edge finders decades. Now I've got a more accurate method (when required). BIG THANKS Joe.
Brown & share how simple, & the rest of the lesson just got better & better, with simple no quibble easy learning. just the best Sir Joe👍 thank you.
Another great video as usual. I'm a little old and a little slow. You left me in the dust a mile back. I'll have to watch it a few more times. Thanks for sharing with us. Dan
Excellent lesson Joe, looking forward to your upcoming lessons!
Man this is EXACTLY the thing I needed for today's project
It's great for you to share your wealth of knowledge Joe.I get something from every thing i watch of yoursas i'm sure others do.Thank You!!!
Watched twice, before I got it. I look forward to more on indicators. Thanks Joe.
OMG! I did understand and should, but then I did not. I will re-watch this great lesson until mastered. Thank you Master.
I remember seeing you Joe on the land of the giants! Great vid again thanks.
I’m always learning new things from You!
Thanks
Very nice.
Thanks for sharing with us Joe.
Thanks for watching.
Another great demo Joe. I do this method quite often works great.
Hey Randy, thanks for watching.
Thank you Joe! I learnt something new!
Have you ever heard of a “machinist’s chair”?
Hard to describe it but it can be held against the ‘inside back’ against a machined edge with the ‘legs’ sticking up. The ‘legs’ are two solid surfaces that are precisely ground to be both parallel to the ‘inside back’ and equidistant from it. You can tram the two inside surfaces of the ‘legs’ to precisely pick up the edge.
ogenmatic or perhaps Stefan Gotteswinter's "pacman" shaped gizmo.
Chris Stephens
I think it was something SPI sold at one point (80’s - 90’s). It was kinda pricey due the size of it so I only knew one tool maker who had one though a couple of guys made their own.
Do you have a link for the item you mentioned? I hadn’t heard of it.
The bigger the dial indicator the more accuracy it gets. Nice clock
Now theres the Abom of indicators! :) nice one Joe Thanks
I'll need a trailer for the Noga arm it connects to.
@@joepie221 that can be arranged :)
I want that wall clock! Thanks for another great demo Joe.
Look fwd to future items on DTI work.
I WANT THAT CLOCK TOO...TAKE MY MONEY!
He made that:
ruclips.net/video/aFRG7nI5ZVY/видео.html
Thank you for this. I love this tip
10:01 I've got an idea for perfect alignment. 1) Draw a line in the middle of the tape first (on the tape-roll itself, can be done by hand or by bending a ruler), 2) Cut off a piece of tape to cover both pieces to mark, 3 Cut the tape between the pieces with a razerblade/stanleyknife. Thanks for sharing and teaching your skills!
That would work.
Great idea Joe. I would be interested in one of those clock indicators
Am i the only one who desires an oversize test indicator wall clock now? I love quality measuring equipment,i collect older MIJ mitutoyo stuff and have amassed a pretty decent selection to date! A dozen or so calipers mostly dial, full boxed set of mics with standards,depth gauge,bore gauge and a few dial indicators to name just a few.I just grab stuff if it comes up at right price or i need it,being in a metric country makes the imperial stuff dirt cheap,suits me well as i can work with either but have switched to preferring imperial in my older years. I only have one test indicator and its probably my favourite little tool! It was given to me by a retired toolmaker, its a Swiss made Tesa 1/2 thou job.
Its a great addition to the shop wall. It just looks like it belongs there. Fun project.
@@joepie221 If you still have the sketches around - I'll make up a set of drawings for it
@@joecnc3341 just measure the clock you will use grab a test indicator to measure once you figure the ratio just upscale the measurements from the indicator. or make a pantograph out of flat bar
@@joecnc3341Joe, did you ever get around to making a set of drawings for the Dial Indicator wall clock? If so where can I get them? Enjoying your videos.
As soon as I saw the thumbnail I knew I had missed the episode where Joe was finally going to try out his shrinkray.
Have you and your love ones a very good Thanksgiving, with good health, love and prosperity.
Thank you very much. Same to you, and those special to you.
Good one Joe
Thanks for sharing
Another excellent video Joe. Thanks very much. . .. . . .. .Although I was disappointed that you didn't need to "unloosen" anything.😊😂🍻
I may get a 'T' shirt that says "unloosen it"
@@joepie221 Unloosening is simply removing the Abom torque. It's still tight but not so tight that it's like a double lockwasher with extra Loctite.
Thanks for the demo Joe.
Great demo Joe , Cheers .
Great job enjoy watching your videos thanks
LOVELY and inspiring.
Thank you sir!
great lesson...thanks
Thanks for checking in Chuck. Hope all is well.
Wow, awesome to see a professional on RUclips!
Thanks! 😃
Thanks for the Tip, Had to a few step backs, but I got it now.
good tip joe
Happy Thanksgiving Joe. Thanks for all you teach
Hi Joe, I liked your indicator clock so much I decided to make one of my own. I would have sent a picture of it, but I am not sure how to send it.
Its a fun clock to have on the wall.
Cheers Joe
Thanks Joe, another greight tip - think my edge finder is going away now!
Your wall clock is awesome! I would buy this if you offer them
Maybe Joe could make a set of prints available. I recall that he built the clock perhaps 2 years ago.
Great example Sr thanks
In my day the best and only edge finder was a Starrett. the only indicator was the Starrett Last Word then changed to Interapid. Accuracy first speed second. The process explained used to be called Dead Zero.
Thanks. I still have one of those last word indicators.
That is a huge instrument you've got there. 😁
Very good video. Even with a digital readout isn't it still good machining practice to keep your table movement in the same direction when indicating.
Not so much when indicating but when milling it is important to be mindful of backlash so that the forces of machining are in the opposite direction you moved the table last. In other words always feeding the table towards your tool not away.
very cool way to do it, thanks
I will have to say that was clear as mud. I will have to watch this a few more times to see if I can clear up the confusion in my head.
I found it very clear. Joe did an excellent job explaining and demonstrating the concept.
Thanks Joe... very nice tip ;)
I like that you picked up after yourself first at the whiteboard after things fell on the floor before proceeding.
Its a Virgo thing.
Good lesson Joe
Mount your dti to a spindle tool and then you can just sweep one side, then the other. Turn the spindle to sweep and reverse sides.
No mucking about with any projected planes.
This would be for finding dead center. To find a hole do the same but to the inside instead of outside
Er collets work well, interapids have a grab bar on the back.
Respectfully, your suggestion won't work when trying to pick up an edge as the video title suggests.
Another Great Video, Joe Pie. What would be interesting to compare - is the accuracy of an edge finder versus the indicator? How close does an indicator really get you? My "gut feel" is probably 0.001"-0.003" - but we might be surprised. That would be interesting to compare
Think about it. Edge finder.....does it kick out at exactly the moment it should? ----does your table move exactly the distance you dial in? Then maybe you're over the edge. Indicator......Sweep until each surface reads the same value or zero. Done. Nothing has to move to the edge because you are already over it. I say the indicator is far more precise than an edge finder.
@@joepie221 - I totally agree with you - the indicator would be the most precise way of finding the edge (and I really appreciate you putting such great videos together showing the proper way to do these things). I guess my point was - How accurate is an edge finder in comparison? Is it typically out 0.001-0.005? or? with a skilled machinist, of course. It would be interesting to know how close an you get on average with an edge finder...
Pie r square? No, Pie r not square, Pie r cool! Thanks Joe Pie! Learning a lot of cool stuff here.
Great content Joe and thats great that a school uses examples of techniques that you use. You sure you didn't have an earthquake when stuff was falling lol that's how my day was
I was truly flattered to get that message.
Dear Joe
I sit here with a pile of end mills that are worn on the last 100 thou of the end, and perfectly sharp most of the length above that. This has gotten me to questioning the normal way most RUclipsrs show for roughing metal removal - sweep back and forth across the face taking a wide but shallow cut.
I’m just going to give some ball park numbers here - not optimized for MRR, etc. I just wanted to get a few numbers on paper to illustrate what I mean. A typical value for a ¾ end mill might be .600 wide and 0.100 deep. That would remove 0.060 cubic inches per inch travelled. What about making a DEEP but narrow pass instead? How about 1.000 deep and a step over of 0.060 ? That would remove the same 0.060 cubic inches per inch traveled, but it would use more of the end mill’s cutting edges.
I know that the numbers will need to be adjusted according to the HP available, material, type of cutter, number of flutes, etc… But right now I just want to ask why do people seem to favor wide and shallow instead of narrow and deep? What am I missing?
Thanks
Dan
I'm not sure exactly what you mean, but I DO see end mills often used for cuts they are not ideal for. Not the best tool for the job. Both manual and CNC, but the reason is.......I don't know. Probably to save time, but at the expense of wasting money and energy because they are expensive and not easy to re-sharpen.
End mills are mainly for creating slots or irregular shape pockets. Or you can plunge cut also, tho for the sake of cost OR efficiency a drill is always superior, but then you'd have to change tools.....
For any facing operation where a face-mill will fit, even a small one, then a face mill or flycutter is going to be the better and more efficient tool for that job. For taking heavy cuts on the side there are roughing end mills which work very well, but that would require a tool change again for a NICE finish. Easily I can imagine using 3,4 or 5 different tools to do the same operations a single end mill could do.
People aren't doing that it is to save time, tho I don't necessarily blame them. I might too if I had enough money to burn.
Manual milling
I am just a beginner, but Titan Of CNC teaches to use the full length of the flutes whenever possible.
Anybody know of a milling or hiring machine big enough to take Joe's large DTI?.
Great tutorial Joe, thanks for sharing.
as always, thanks Joe
Thanks for stopping by Emma. Always good to get a comment from you.
Thanks Joe
More like picking up an indicator with an edge ... my, that was a big one! BobUK.
My favorite one.
This is exactly the way I split tenths on a jig grinder.
Use a gage block instead of a piece of raw stock. Even that tiny piece of raw stock you set against the 123 block could have a dip in the middle of it in both sides. Raw stock usually does because of the cutting forces used to cut it. This is why when you stone a piece of metal (any kind) the edges are always scratched first because they are higher. Flatness is extremely hard to measure accurately and even cnc milled surfaces with sharp tools end up leaving a finish around .0005 to .001 flat on a piece that small. (Because of holding pressure). I guarantee that "shim" you used was at least over .001 flat. Every thousanth matters and I know I'm being picky. But there's all different levels of accuracy. I'm just putting a few add ons here. I've never been very good with etiquette however it is not my intent to offend. I just want people to not overlook anything. Everything affects accuracy.
The irregular surfaces you speak of are not always high on the edges on both sides. If the material is crowned on one side, then the edges will be high on the other. This extrusion deformity is not usually present on the bar ends and should not effect this technique. If NASA precision is required, naturally take the appropriate steps to assure everything is held to that standard along the way. No offense taken.
Simply wring a .1 slip against a 1 inch slip and hold this against the edge, then clock the centre of the 1 inch slip and move the table.500 inch.This will guarantee you are on the edge, it’s quick and the most accurate way.
great lesson give example edge finder accuracy for comparison please
You have helped me inprove my technick a 150 %. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
I now have a question about my chushman 3 jaw Chuck, the scroll part of the Jaws are flush with the hard Jaws,is this acceptable or should they be recsecd, The Jaws are Bell mouted and I am getting ready to grind the.
Any jaw drill or laythe should not be "belled" grind or I would replace for the price
I'm trying to think of a situation where this is better than indicating a chair type edge finder. I guess with the chair you are still transferring your edge and are coupled to the accuracy of the chair.