Absolutely agree on the Brake upgrade, currently riding with 4-pot XT's with Metalic Finned pads. Riding with 2piston brake is either strictly race-orientated or compromising with the fun on the descent. At least in my case :) Keep up the great work with the videos - it's astonishing your not having atleast 20-30k subscribers!
Couldn't say it better! Unless someone is fighting for the podium which makes some importance - I see no good reason to make that compromise :) How well the metalilc pads works? I plan to test them as well as 180rotor at the rear! As for the channel - thanks a ton, that means a lot. With that said - hope you are not afraid of no-gravity zone. Buckle up your belts - we are moving into stratosphere! :D
Congrats with bigger brake update! So far 4pot XT is the best brakes that I was using Power/Modulation/light lever actuation is just amazing... The bleeding process is easier and cleaner than cooking pasta (now trying to adapt to TRP DHR evo... way to linear and not bitty) *Bigger rotors is very important too especially in the mountains with prolonged braking events (bigger rotors cool down faster and brakes doesn't heat up so extremely) *Rotor thickness is important too! there is 1.8, 2.0 and 2.3mm rotors I think everything over 180mm needs to be 2.0mm + thick because of vibration/sound and robustness and better heat management. *Steel amount on rotor braking surface is very important too. There are some rotors that almost doesn't have material on the braking surface which leads to uneven braking/sounds/fading. I can ride with 10speed drivetrain, but will never skip on brake performance. Even I weight 65kg :D Powerful brakes - fast ride! Smagių nuokalnių!
Thanks, Karoli! As you probably had a chance to use SRAM's in more variety, or at least try them - whats the biggest difference SRAM vs Shimano wise? Lack of modulation? Stiffness? About the rotors size - what would be good factor to consider switching rotor one tier size up? I am thinking that if, for XT rotor, its becoming cooked on the sides, it might be good enough reason to switch. Great thoughts on the rotor's thickness and holeness, if such word exists, haha!:))
@@tom10crafted brake feel is very slippery thing.. everyone with their preferences.. In short(and in my opinion): Shimano is progressive you hit through free stroke and then brakes already start stopping it is only tiny bit of lever movement with your finger. Sram is more linear. You are pushing lever much more to get power. (And then bleeding time comes you push them to the bars...) I much more prefer Shimano because bite point is extremely defined by lever feel. Easy moving lever - free stroke, Hitting braking point - hard lever/just tiny bit of lever movement to modulate power. Colors on the rotors is sing of excessive heat. Too much heat - problems with brakes. Some heat - estetical problems on the rotor.. Testing bigger rotors is the easiest upgrade wheel out and 6bolts + adapter. Always easy to come back.
I am also considering upgrading my brakes, but I will probably go with Shigura. Shimano XT leavers with Magura MT5 calipers. This is not the lightest option out there, but it should work very well :).
We recebtly had a Customer in the workshop who had mt8 brakes on his spark. The caliper on the rear touched the seat stay and we were not able to adjust the caliper correctly…so we had to either set up the pistons unevenly or file down the outer side of the caliper 😅
My Oiz M Carbon came with Deore single pot brakes… they went straight off the bike, replaced with the SLX M7120 4pot brakes… 4 pot brakes are a massive upgrade in stopping power!!! 👍🏻
Absolutely! The only thing to consider is that not everyone needs 4pots - for example if majority of riding is not in trails, then it’s just extra weight being carried. Nonetheless, myself I love this upgrade so much!! Day and night experience in longer descents - nothing to compare
@@tom10crafted definitely, I’m a 85kg rider and do ride a bit of everything on my Oiz… reds and blacks… it’s such a capable bike! We also Bikejor so when being towed by a dog, we need that extra stopping power! 👍🏻
Thanks for this video, just what I needed. I'm not so happy with my XTR brakes on my Spark either. I find the XT brakes (on my hardtail) way better. Might try 4-piston (XT) instead of switching from 2-piston XTR to XT... Glad this video popped up, great idea! Thanks!
Great to hear its on time! As someone who came from 2pistons XT brakes onto 2 piston XTR's myself as well, I knew from the first decent they are weaker. Adding some issues with levers and even less power in brakes, no surprise looking elsewhere was needed, haha! By the way, XT vs XTR 2 pistons brake pads side by side are self explanatory on their own too - significantly narrower in width.
Oval is a tough question. There are no reliable data on efficiency or power gains. However i tend to think they give a better feel on mtb by shortening the time where you can't power the bike (dead spots) where you can loose balance or get less consistant traction. There are compatilbity and chain retention issue. At the moment i don't ride them anymore because it's simpler.
True that - while with no scientific proof, the feel it gives to the legs is there. Over time you get used to it and it feels like placebo potential, but then just try round on any given climb and the topic gets more interesting! :D
I've had several power or wear related issues with 2 pot brakes but quite often it's about the finding the right pads. Actually i'm running shimano 2 pots XTR and i think they are perfect. I've not had power or consistency issue. A few time on long steep dumb alpine (think ski slope) descent there was very small change in feel but those were very far and between and on the worst conditions for a brake. Then i'm a light rider 62kg.
@@tom10crafted i was scratching my head with pads ans power when i was using formula R1. When i had sram level after that power was better but feeling could be inconsistent at time. Now with XTR no issues, with the stock cheap pads.
To be honest, I never riden any HIGH END long enough apart from switches with friends. Nonetheless, from impressions I had the lever feel is a lot stiffer, less travel - more fingers power needed IMO. In addition, when it comes to Sram vs Shimano - it's like... Hard to pick proper analogy. If I say Samsung vs Apple.. Or Audi vs BMW? :D Let's just say it's a matter of... preference!
I was riding level ult for 3 years, new bike came with XT, Im already thinking about swiching back to Sram`s, with metalic pads - never had any problems and lever modulation is aweosome on those!
I had two-piston brakes on all my xc bikes and I never lacked power :) It seems to me that the tires had a greater impact on my braking. In fact, I would rather speed this bike up than slow it down😁
Speeding up on the descends is not needed at all when they are steep enough - pretty much gravity does it's job, haha! I never had 4pots myself in the past, but recently had a chance to try again XTR 2pots - don't wanna look back! :D
@@tom10crafted I would like to speed up the bike in general, not just on the descents. For me, the weakest braking point in XC bikes are tires that do not have the grip of trail tires. I would rather slim down the bike by 150g than increase its weight. Of course this is just my opinion.
@@gototrails isn't that a stone into Aspen's field, Piotr?! :D In regards to the weight penalty - yes, that is not what I would want in an ideal scenario. Thus first thing for someone having concerns on the brakes should be bigger rotors first.
Absolutely agree on the Brake upgrade, currently riding with 4-pot XT's with Metalic Finned pads.
Riding with 2piston brake is either strictly race-orientated or compromising with the fun on the descent. At least in my case :)
Keep up the great work with the videos - it's astonishing your not having atleast 20-30k subscribers!
Couldn't say it better! Unless someone is fighting for the podium which makes some importance - I see no good reason to make that compromise :) How well the metalilc pads works? I plan to test them as well as 180rotor at the rear!
As for the channel - thanks a ton, that means a lot. With that said - hope you are not afraid of no-gravity zone. Buckle up your belts - we are moving into stratosphere! :D
Congrats with bigger brake update!
So far 4pot XT is the best brakes that I was using Power/Modulation/light lever actuation is just amazing... The bleeding process is easier and cleaner than cooking pasta (now trying to adapt to TRP DHR evo... way to linear and not bitty)
*Bigger rotors is very important too especially in the mountains with prolonged braking events (bigger rotors cool down faster and brakes doesn't heat up so extremely)
*Rotor thickness is important too! there is 1.8, 2.0 and 2.3mm rotors I think everything over 180mm needs to be 2.0mm + thick because of vibration/sound and robustness and better heat management.
*Steel amount on rotor braking surface is very important too. There are some rotors that almost doesn't have material on the braking surface which leads to uneven braking/sounds/fading.
I can ride with 10speed drivetrain, but will never skip on brake performance. Even I weight 65kg :D
Powerful brakes - fast ride!
Smagių nuokalnių!
Thanks, Karoli! As you probably had a chance to use SRAM's in more variety, or at least try them - whats the biggest difference SRAM vs Shimano wise? Lack of modulation? Stiffness?
About the rotors size - what would be good factor to consider switching rotor one tier size up? I am thinking that if, for XT rotor, its becoming cooked on the sides, it might be good enough reason to switch.
Great thoughts on the rotor's thickness and holeness, if such word exists, haha!:))
@@tom10crafted brake feel is very slippery thing.. everyone with their preferences..
In short(and in my opinion): Shimano is progressive you hit through free stroke and then brakes already start stopping it is only tiny bit of lever movement with your finger.
Sram is more linear. You are pushing lever much more to get power. (And then bleeding time comes you push them to the bars...)
I much more prefer Shimano because bite point is extremely defined by lever feel. Easy moving lever - free stroke, Hitting braking point - hard lever/just tiny bit of lever movement to modulate power.
Colors on the rotors is sing of excessive heat. Too much heat - problems with brakes. Some heat - estetical problems on the rotor..
Testing bigger rotors is the easiest upgrade wheel out and 6bolts + adapter.
Always easy to come back.
00:50
I live by this!
Do we have another Shimano brakes fan out there?! :D
I am also considering upgrading my brakes, but I will probably go with Shigura. Shimano XT leavers with Magura MT5 calipers. This is not the lightest option out there, but it should work very well :).
Does Magura's calipers requires some custom post mount fittment on Spark? I believe there was some discussion about that in FB Groups:)
Not sure, I don't think so. I had Shimano breaks on my new Genius and switched to Magura without any problem.
@@omago1985 it's not like compatibility issue in essence, but mounting concerns on Sparks rear
We recebtly had a Customer in the workshop who had mt8 brakes on his spark. The caliper on the rear touched the seat stay and we were not able to adjust the caliper correctly…so we had to either set up the pistons unevenly or file down the outer side of the caliper 😅
@@urskapunkt9185 how does thr brake pads looked like? 😅😅🫡
My Oiz M Carbon came with Deore single pot brakes… they went straight off the bike, replaced with the SLX M7120 4pot brakes… 4 pot brakes are a massive upgrade in stopping power!!! 👍🏻
Absolutely! The only thing to consider is that not everyone needs 4pots - for example if majority of riding is not in trails, then it’s just extra weight being carried.
Nonetheless, myself I love this upgrade so much!! Day and night experience in longer descents - nothing to compare
@@tom10crafted definitely, I’m a 85kg rider and do ride a bit of everything on my Oiz… reds and blacks… it’s such a capable bike! We also Bikejor so when being towed by a dog, we need that extra stopping power! 👍🏻
@@Stickymicky25 glad that I am not the only one who sees benefit in 4pots on XC bike!:)
@@tom10crafted I think some XC weight weenies go too far… is that few grams really beneficial over performance?
@@Stickymicky25 maybe there is a flip side of this too... When you don't have good brakes, you are forced to go faster than you want, hahah!
Thanks for this video, just what I needed. I'm not so happy with my XTR brakes on my Spark either. I find the XT brakes (on my hardtail) way better. Might try 4-piston (XT) instead of switching from 2-piston XTR to XT... Glad this video popped up, great idea! Thanks!
Great to hear its on time! As someone who came from 2pistons XT brakes onto 2 piston XTR's myself as well, I knew from the first decent they are weaker. Adding some issues with levers and even less power in brakes, no surprise looking elsewhere was needed, haha!
By the way, XT vs XTR 2 pistons brake pads side by side are self explanatory on their own too - significantly narrower in width.
Oval is a tough question. There are no reliable data on efficiency or power gains. However i tend to think they give a better feel on mtb by shortening the time where you can't power the bike (dead spots) where you can loose balance or get less consistant traction. There are compatilbity and chain retention issue. At the moment i don't ride them anymore because it's simpler.
True that - while with no scientific proof, the feel it gives to the legs is there. Over time you get used to it and it feels like placebo potential, but then just try round on any given climb and the topic gets more interesting! :D
I've had several power or wear related issues with 2 pot brakes but quite often it's about the finding the right pads. Actually i'm running shimano 2 pots XTR and i think they are perfect. I've not had power or consistency issue. A few time on long steep dumb alpine (think ski slope) descent there was very small change in feel but those were very far and between and on the worst conditions for a brake. Then i'm a light rider 62kg.
Wonder what that 20kg difference does to the bike, haha! What pads do you use, considering its not original?
@@tom10crafted i was scratching my head with pads ans power when i was using formula R1. When i had sram level after that power was better but feeling could be inconsistent at time. Now with XTR no issues, with the stock cheap pads.
Yes!
Finally chainrings video coming up! 😂
Coming soon, ovals will rule the world, haha!
Why you don't like sram brakes? was considering to upgrade to sram level ult this season :D haven't tried them tho. what's wrong with them?
To be honest, I never riden any HIGH END long enough apart from switches with friends. Nonetheless, from impressions I had the lever feel is a lot stiffer, less travel - more fingers power needed IMO.
In addition, when it comes to Sram vs Shimano - it's like... Hard to pick proper analogy. If I say Samsung vs Apple.. Or Audi vs BMW? :D Let's just say it's a matter of... preference!
I was riding level ult for 3 years, new bike came with XT, Im already thinking about swiching back to Sram`s, with metalic pads - never had any problems and lever modulation is aweosome on those!
@@ArmandsPriede185 already thinking without even trying XT's, I assume? :D As you got the new Spark and probably haven't tested in the winter yet:D
I had two-piston brakes on all my xc bikes and I never lacked power :) It seems to me that the tires had a greater impact on my braking. In fact, I would rather speed this bike up than slow it down😁
Speeding up on the descends is not needed at all when they are steep enough - pretty much gravity does it's job, haha! I never had 4pots myself in the past, but recently had a chance to try again XTR 2pots - don't wanna look back! :D
@@tom10crafted I would like to speed up the bike in general, not just on the descents. For me, the weakest braking point in XC bikes are tires that do not have the grip of trail tires. I would rather slim down the bike by 150g than increase its weight. Of course this is just my opinion.
@@gototrails isn't that a stone into Aspen's field, Piotr?! :D
In regards to the weight penalty - yes, that is not what I would want in an ideal scenario. Thus first thing for someone having concerns on the brakes should be bigger rotors first.
@@tom10crafted Tire grip during braking is Aspen's weak point, but this is the price for a light and fast tire 😁
@@gototrails finally we reached to the conclusion that Aspen's are only for speed junkies! :D :D