Let us know any changes you might make if you were running a 5e sorcerer & don't forget to subscribe :-) For more videos on magic in D&D 5e, check out our playlist! ruclips.net/p/PL6dmrZg4pm2p8oujjj-vdFJaks8a6yHyT
It looks like you guys put a load of time and effort into researching all of the options. Thank you for the timestamps, its such a long video I don't know if I would be able to finish it without them.
We just want to help people get the most out of their games and the Sorcerer felt like it needed some love. If you ever come across a video of ours and have an idea on how we can make anything easier for you, please don’t hesitate to let us know!
Loving the approach you guys have taken. If i had one overall comment, it would be to maybe mix in a bit more utility/buff/debuff/control spells into each of the lists. One thing i am finding playing an Aberrant Mind Sorc is that the granted Psionic Spells are mix, with very few pure attack spells. Providing a blend of spell types would also lend more freedom to a player who wants to build a character against type (e.g., a gold Dragon Sorc who is a controller focus). With a good mix of spell types, you may wind up with fewer spells to actually swap out as you level, especially since you can only swap out 1 general Sorc list spell and 1 sub-class-specific spell per level in the class. Also, both the Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul are fairly limited in the spells they can select from when swapping their sub-class specific spell lists. For Aberrant Mind you can select from any Wizard, Sorc, Warlock spells of the same level from the enchantment or divination schools. This sounds like a lot, but it can be a very limited list of options. For third level spells, if you want to swap out either of the psionic spells, there are only 4 enchantment or divination spell alternatives between the 3 classes at that level. The Clockwork Soul can only replace their clockwork spells with Wizard, Sorc, Warlock spells of the same level from the abjuration and transmutation schools. You might give some thought to how you might similarly limit the other subclasses in their swapping options, otherwise you will wind up with easily min/maxed spell lists. I suspect this is one reason why we didn't see a whole class overhaul for the other Sorcerer subclasses in Tasha's, as balancing the limitations is challenging. Anyway, great video, as usual. Cheers.
One last thing, take a swing at revising the Clockwork Soul's Clockwork Spell List. One reason I chose Aberrant Mind over Clockwork Soul is because the class design felt more cohesive. It is easy to lean into influence/ties to the Far Realms or psionics, as the spell list feels like it exemplifies the themes. The spells for the Clockwork Soul do not seem as well meshed with the underlying concept. Order, Balance, and Law may be more difficult concepts to capture through available spells, but Tasha's introduced a fair number of spells specific to the psionic sub-classes (e.g., Tasha's Mind Whip, Raulothim's Psychic Lance) that target INT saves. Seems like WotC could have provided a few new thematic spells for the Clockwork Soul. Still it is a strong (if not the strongest subclass) because of the spells it can access.
The concept behind all of it was definitely just keep things simple and on theme. Sorcerers just don’t get enough spells. They shouldn’t in comparison to a Wizard but we just wanted to give them a little boost. Like Josh says in the video, we’re pretty much cool with whatever options a character wants to choose for them. As a side note, control spells are some of Jake’s favorite options to choose!
@@JNJTabletop I appreciate keeping things simple. I'm really just throwing out my comments more as aspects to keep in mind for those DMs who may want to go down this route in their own campaign. I think your approach is a great starting point, but would caution loading too many evocation spells on their subclass lists and to exclude evocation as a school from which any sorcerer can draw alternatives for their subclass spell list. I know the conventional wisdom is that Sorcerers make good blasters, but I think they make the best controllers, especially the Aberrant Mind.
I ended up just clicking through to the slides since the video runs long for my taste. I used to play Dungeon Dudes at x1.25 speed until they tightened up their scripts. I took the lazy way and only made one list for dragon-blood and one for divine soul - to be honest, it hadn't even occurred to me to split them by alignment, so interesting take.
We do tend to enjoy a more podcast-like format, but certainly see the value in being more concise with our words. Thanks for the feedback and for watching!
great video guys - subscribers of dungeon dudes were having a discussion about this issue after their tier rankings of TCOE's sorcerer subclasses video this week, and this is just what we were looking for! thanks
@@JNJTabletop I supported their Drakkenheim kickstarter and think that Dungeons of Drakkenheim is going to be one of the best ever 5e campaign modules. Their live streams are fantastic and their "how to" videos are endlessly helpful!
Now that Fizban's Treasury of Dragons has come out, the white and silver Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer could have Rime's Binding Ice as their second level ice themed spell.
@@mellowtron1166 That's true! We were hoping they would add spell lists like these to the sorcerer but perhaps they will make up the difference when 5.5/2024 rules update comes out.
@@JNJTabletop Yeah, I'm bummed how WOTC didn't add any official expanded spell lists for the non Tasha's sorcerer subclasses and some of the earlier ranger subclasses. Given how Tasha's updated the Beastmaster ranger, I'm kind of surprised that Fizban's didn't at least make an expanded spell list for the Draconic Bloodline sorcerer.
Let us know any changes you might make if you were running a 5e sorcerer & don't forget to subscribe :-)
For more videos on magic in D&D 5e, check out our playlist! ruclips.net/p/PL6dmrZg4pm2p8oujjj-vdFJaks8a6yHyT
It looks like you guys put a load of time and effort into researching all of the options. Thank you for the timestamps, its such a long video I don't know if I would be able to finish it without them.
We just want to help people get the most out of their games and the Sorcerer felt like it needed some love. If you ever come across a video of ours and have an idea on how we can make anything easier for you, please don’t hesitate to let us know!
Loving the approach you guys have taken. If i had one overall comment, it would be to maybe mix in a bit more utility/buff/debuff/control spells into each of the lists. One thing i am finding playing an Aberrant Mind Sorc is that the granted Psionic Spells are mix, with very few pure attack spells. Providing a blend of spell types would also lend more freedom to a player who wants to build a character against type (e.g., a gold Dragon Sorc who is a controller focus). With a good mix of spell types, you may wind up with fewer spells to actually swap out as you level, especially since you can only swap out 1 general Sorc list spell and 1 sub-class-specific spell per level in the class.
Also, both the Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul are fairly limited in the spells they can select from when swapping their sub-class specific spell lists. For Aberrant Mind you can select from any Wizard, Sorc, Warlock spells of the same level from the enchantment or divination schools. This sounds like a lot, but it can be a very limited list of options. For third level spells, if you want to swap out either of the psionic spells, there are only 4 enchantment or divination spell alternatives between the 3 classes at that level. The Clockwork Soul can only replace their clockwork spells with Wizard, Sorc, Warlock spells of the same level from the abjuration and transmutation schools. You might give some thought to how you might similarly limit the other subclasses in their swapping options, otherwise you will wind up with easily min/maxed spell lists. I suspect this is one reason why we didn't see a whole class overhaul for the other Sorcerer subclasses in Tasha's, as balancing the limitations is challenging.
Anyway, great video, as usual. Cheers.
One last thing, take a swing at revising the Clockwork Soul's Clockwork Spell List. One reason I chose Aberrant Mind over Clockwork Soul is because the class design felt more cohesive. It is easy to lean into influence/ties to the Far Realms or psionics, as the spell list feels like it exemplifies the themes. The spells for the Clockwork Soul do not seem as well meshed with the underlying concept. Order, Balance, and Law may be more difficult concepts to capture through available spells, but Tasha's introduced a fair number of spells specific to the psionic sub-classes (e.g., Tasha's Mind Whip, Raulothim's Psychic Lance) that target INT saves. Seems like WotC could have provided a few new thematic spells for the Clockwork Soul. Still it is a strong (if not the strongest subclass) because of the spells it can access.
The concept behind all of it was definitely just keep things simple and on theme. Sorcerers just don’t get enough spells. They shouldn’t in comparison to a Wizard but we just wanted to give them a little boost. Like Josh says in the video, we’re pretty much cool with whatever options a character wants to choose for them.
As a side note, control spells are some of Jake’s favorite options to choose!
@@JNJTabletop I appreciate keeping things simple. I'm really just throwing out my comments more as aspects to keep in mind for those DMs who may want to go down this route in their own campaign. I think your approach is a great starting point, but would caution loading too many evocation spells on their subclass lists and to exclude evocation as a school from which any sorcerer can draw alternatives for their subclass spell list.
I know the conventional wisdom is that Sorcerers make good blasters, but I think they make the best controllers, especially the Aberrant Mind.
So many good options!
Thank you, Violet!!
Oh man. It would have benefited me to have this video before we had started that game, I love your Draconic choices!
These are some of the best ideas for sorcerer that I have seen!
Thank you! We really feel like it would make the sorcerer that much more satisfying to play
@@JNJTabletop I genuinely feel it would make me enjoy the class.
Mission Accomplished 😊
I ended up just clicking through to the slides since the video runs long for my taste. I used to play Dungeon Dudes at x1.25 speed until they tightened up their scripts.
I took the lazy way and only made one list for dragon-blood and one for divine soul - to be honest, it hadn't even occurred to me to split them by alignment, so interesting take.
We do tend to enjoy a more podcast-like format, but certainly see the value in being more concise with our words. Thanks for the feedback and for watching!
You used the catchphrase beautifully, my lads! Haha
Solid video!
great video guys - subscribers of dungeon dudes were having a discussion about this issue after their tier rankings of TCOE's sorcerer subclasses video this week, and this is just what we were looking for! thanks
Thank you! We love Kelly & Monty and felt the same way after that exact video 😊
@@JNJTabletop I supported their Drakkenheim kickstarter and think that Dungeons of Drakkenheim is going to be one of the best ever 5e campaign modules. Their live streams are fantastic and their "how to" videos are endlessly helpful!
We completely agree with you and will also be supporting their Kickstarter very soon!
Now that Fizban's Treasury of Dragons has come out, the white and silver Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer could have Rime's Binding Ice as their second level ice themed spell.
Oh absolutely! These lists can be updated and swapped/substituted for anything, really
@@JNJTabletop true, and to be fair, Fizban's hadn't come out when you two made this video.
@@mellowtron1166 That's true! We were hoping they would add spell lists like these to the sorcerer but perhaps they will make up the difference when 5.5/2024 rules update comes out.
@@JNJTabletop Yeah, I'm bummed how WOTC didn't add any official expanded spell lists for the non Tasha's sorcerer subclasses and some of the earlier ranger subclasses. Given how Tasha's updated the Beastmaster ranger, I'm kind of surprised that Fizban's didn't at least make an expanded spell list for the Draconic Bloodline sorcerer.
So many missed opportunities!
The very limited spell choices for 5e Sorcerer is one of my many complaints about 5e.
Seems like they wanted to address that a bit but it’s weird that they didn’t add lists like this to all the subclasses
Dimension 20s homebrew gave a method where the number you need increases each time you cast a spell
I actually might play a sorcerer for the next character I make... maybe Storm??
Nah, dragon sorcerer!
@@bluedragonguild which one would you pick??
@@JnJake the copper dragon. They are my favorite of the metallic dragons.
@@bluedragonguild If you were a city guard, could you guess what your nickname would be?
@@bluedragonguild Wild Magic for me!!!