Polygamy - The Beginnings
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- Опубликовано: 15 окт 2024
- This video discusses the beginnings of polygamy in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. While we often avoid this painful topic, faithful members who seek a better understanding of it, will have tools to answer the avalanche of criticisms leveled against us regarding this charged and sensitive topic. This video explains why polygamy was practiced, how to avoid judging its history through our present day eyes, better understanding for the criticisms leveled against Joesph Smith for how he started the practice, and how participants who struggled to live it were buoyed up by miraculous manifestations leading them to know it was, indeed, from God for that particular time, and for His particular purposes. The next video, part 2, will discuss the endings of polygamy in the church and what the afterlife might look like with regard to this principle (hint: would God require us to live an Abrahamic sacrifice throughout eternity?).
HERE IS A DIRECT LINK TO THE TRANSCRIPT OF THIS VIDEO FROM THE WEBSITE
latterdaysaint...
Resources
Websites:
LDS.ORG Gospel Topics Essay: Plural Marriage in Kirtland & Nauvoo
www.lds.org/to...
Brian & Laura Hales Website Joseph Smith’s Polygamy:
josephsmithspol...
Fairmormon - many subtopics covered
www.fairmormon...
Podcasts:
Hales - series of podcasts on their own channel - titled Joseph Smith’s Polygamy
josephsmithspol...
LDS Perspectives Podcast Interview - Tough Questions About Mormon Polygamy
www.ldsperspect...
RUclips Videos
The Interpreter Foundation - Special Roundtable Discussion: Polygamy
• The Interpreter Founda...
Joseph Smith’s Polygamy: Toward A Better Understanding - Brian & Laura Hales
• Joseph Smith's Polygam...
Books:
The Persistence of Polygamy - Joesph Smith and the Origins of Mormon Polygamy by Newell Bringhurst & Craig Foster
Joseph Smith’s Polygamy - Toward A Better Understanding by Brian & Laura Hales
Wiford Woodruff’s Witness: The Development of Temple Doctrine by Jennifer Ann Mackley
Brother Roundy, this is not the first time that you have been told this, and it probably won't be the last. But I would like you to know that I admire your courage and being upfront with this topic. It is a difficult subject for many of us, and I am not very well versed in our history with polygamy. But it has been my understanding that Joseph Smith did not want to do it. From what I have found, he begged to not do it, but in the end it had to be done. Looking at the results today, it does appear that it was to our benefit.
Thank you
Is there any chance that you will make more videos? I have really enjoyed these.
Thank you for the comment and support! The library of content I set out to build has been completed. I have left the door open if the need arises to address something that I haven't already covered in some fashion. I continue to stay involved by answering comments and emails on a daily basis.
I really enjoyed hearing the statments from the men and women who imbrased the practice.
Thank you - I too find them very helpful!
I am member of the Church for 28 years and I did prayed to know if the lds was his restored gospel and Heavenly Father answer my prayers strongly so that's enough for me , I love this gospel!
Thank you for sharing your experience and testimony!
Polygamy was accepted and sometimes commanded in the Old Testament. It was forbidden in some of the New Testament (or all, not sure). Therefore, the only church who fully believes the Bible, is a church who acknowledges a God who forbids, commands, and allows it, depending on the time and the current instructions related to that time. What people often use (polygamy in Joseph Smith's time) against the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints to claim they are wrong, is actually an argument of the validity of the church, ironically.
Well said! Thanks for the comment
I was impressed, you did not avoid the issue , like many of today's LDS. The church has publicly acknowledged the prophet practiced plural marriage
There is absolutely no shame in polygamy not the practice thereof. As you stated, much of the world continue to practice polygamy.
The most progressive, intellectual and well educated LDS women Eliza R. Snow fully embraced polygamy. She was more keen than the average person. Thanks for the honest treatment.
Truly appreciate your comment - thank you!
Thanks for covering this subject!
Thank you
Really appreciate your videos👍🏼
Thank you
Thank you brother! I love your videos and I admire your courage and valiance. Love and prayers coming your way!
Thank you!
Thank you for the well thought out and researched video. This should be required watching for anybody, before commenting on the subject.
10 of my GG or GGGrandfathers practiced polygamy in Nauvoo, IL or in Utah.
Excellent video! My question for the Saints is what is the challenge in practicing polygamy? I think it would be a great blessing to share a life raising children with other women! It is a lonely world we live in! I would welcome the practice today. Those who practice around the world in most every culture, embrace it. The few cultures who don't, live a difficult life for the most part there is cheating in adulterous lifestyles. There was a lot of death in giving birth in the 1800's. Both mother and babies would often die. In a polygamous relationship, there is support in grief and surviving children do not suffer as there are other mothers to step in.
To point out the obvious, many of us are perfectly happy in a monogamous marriage and do not wish to share our spouses with any other person. Undoubtedly, polygamy was difficult for the early Saints and I’m honestly glad it’s not asked of us anymore.
Amen
Benjamin Johnson is my great great grandfather. I know that story well! His book is amazing also
Thanks for sharing - I didn't realize he had an autobiography! Looks like that would be a great read as I know he had quite a fascinating life!
@@latterdaysaintsqa yes, but as I can remember, I believe copies were made just for family members.. I can try to track one down and send it to you if you’d like. Has a lot of good i sights on Joseph Smith and his personality/friendship with ‘Beni’ as he called him 😀
It looks like there may be some copies available on Amazon.
Is this the book? www.amazon.com/MY-LIFES-REVIEW-Benjamin-Johnson/dp/B00BJ8BMHC/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=benjamin+f.+johnson&qid=1638850525&sr=8-2
@@latterdaysaintsqa yup, thats the one
And he is my Great great great grandfather and whom I am named after. Nice to meet you cousin!
Question: How could Joseph have had a marriage with Fanny Alger if he didn’t have the sealing authority until 1836?
This is a good question and I do wish I discussed this briefly on the video during that segment. There are two potential answers to that question, based upon the dating of the marriage, because the dating isn’t clear today from the scant documentation we have.
The marriage may have occurred sometime in the spring of 1836. Elijah came on Apr 3, 1836, so the sealing power may have been restored prior to the marriage.
If the polygamous marriage happened prior to Elijah coming, it would have been administered through the power of the priesthood, but as a time only marriage. The marriage was preformed by Levi Hancock. When Joseph Smith was marrying Newell Knight to Lydia Bailey in Kirtland on Nov 24, 1835, he is quoted saying:
“Our Elders have been wronged and prosecuted for marrying without a license. The Lord God of Israel has given me authority to unite the people in the holy bonds of matrimony. And from this time forth I shall use that privilege and marry whomsoever I see fit. And the enemies of the Church shall never have power to use the law against me” (Lydia Knight’s History: The First Book of the Noble Women’s Lives Series, by “Homespun,” [Susa Young Gates] (Salt Lake City: Juvenile Instructor Office, 1883), p31).
Here is also a helpful link from Brian Hales addressing this topic:
josephsmithspolygamy.org/common-questions/fanny-alger/#link_ajs-fn-id_14-82
@@latterdaysaintsqa thank you for taking the time to give my questions such a detailed and thoughtful reply, I especially appreciate the attached source
I’m so happy to find this video. I’ve only read my great grandfather’s text on this subject. I wanted to hear Joseph Smith or the church reviews. I Do believe my grandfather very against this practice. (Benjamin Winchester. Thank you p.s. if you a any books I would love to read.
Thank you for your comment. You can find some book recommendations underneath the video description in the "resources" section.
You handled that well.. this is a very touchy subject.... I guess I am like Emma in a way. I know it is right but I am a very jealous woman and do not understand it totally. But I do know it came of GOD!!!!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts
We thank thee o GOD for a prophet to guide us in these latter days and we thank thee sending the restored gospelto lighten our minds with its rays will follow him by day and by knight thank thee father for all your blessings, n and through and of him your holy son JESUS the CHRIST a,men
Hello! You gave dates in 1834 and 1838 when the Angel appeared to Joseph. Can you give me references on those? Thanks!
Brian Hales published an excellent referenced article on this in Mormon Historical Studies. The piece was entitled “Encouraging Joseph Smith to Practice Plural Marriage: The Accounts of the Angel with a Drawn Sword” - here is a direct link to the article:
ensignpeakfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Encouraging-Joseph-Smith-to-Practice-Plural-Marriage-The-Accounts-of-the-Angel-with-a-Drawn-Sword.pdf
Ah thank you!
Thank you for this presentation and all your diligent research of the facts, what we know, and what we really don't know. Joseph Smith was a true prophet, even though I don't fully understand this. My thoughts and ways are not God's thoughts and way, for sure.
Thank you for the comment!
Can you please provide evidence from the Bible that God commanded polygamy? There are people in the Bible that did it however is there a verse that states that God required it or commanded this practice?
Here are a few helpful articles (see below) addressing various aspects of the question. I would also add that it is hard for me to reason that people such as the greatest patriarch of all time - Abraham, or Jacob (Israel) the father of the 12 tribes of Israel, would live their lives continuously in sin, seemingly demonstrating that this practice was not in conflict with God at that time and in those circumstances.
Also note particularly in these articles the discussion on levirate marriage (Deuteronomy 25:5-6) - there was no prohibition if the brother-in-law was married, and if he didn’t take on his childless brother’s widow as a wife it was considered shameful, making polygamy very much allowed, or in a sense could even be considered “mandated” if an Israelite was to be faithful and found in these circumstances.
Also note the Lord's instruction to men who enter into polygamy - see Exodus 21:10 & Duet 21:15-17
www.fairmormon.org/answers/Joseph_Smith/Polygamy/Not_Biblical#Question:_Was_there_no_biblical_mandate_for_plural_marriage.3F
www.fairmormon.org/answers/Question:_Does_the_Bible_forbid_plural_marriage%3F
@@latterdaysaintsqa It was in conflict with God's plan. From the beginning Genesis 2:24 God said that a man should leave his parents and him and his wife (not wives) shall become ONE flesh. One man and one women.
Regarding Dueteronomy 25:5-6. The key phrase is "If brothers are living together". In the historical context, two married brothers would not be living in the same household. Meaning that one brother would have not been married.
I feel it is important to respond back to your specific statements. First of all, I agree with the statement made to Adam and Eve of being one flesh. I also view for example, the father of Israel, the great patriarch Jacob, as somebody who would not live his whole life in deep sin, committing adultery continuously. Therefore, although we don’t have any verses showing when or how they were commanded, some of these great men of the Bible practiced polygamy, so I believe if God wanted to give an exception to the instruction on monogamy for certain reasons or circumstances (just like he did under the Levirate marriage command), He is free to do that, and reason tells me that is what occurred.
Now with regards to your statement about levirate marriage only being with unmarried brothers “because they were living together.” I believe you may have a strong misunderstanding of the Israelite household culture. Ancient Israel was a patri-local society. When a bride married, she typically came to live physically within the father-in-law’s household. The concept from Isaiah about “enlarging the place of your tent” was a call to enlarge the followers of God through ministry, but the phrasing resonated since it was a literal desire for a head of a household to increase the size of their physical household compound by increasing the sons who were married (because they would live with you) and bringing about the resulting posterity, all under the same general household (“tent”).
Here is a link to the wikipedia article on Patrilocal residence:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrilocal_residence
And here is a copy/paste from that article for quick reference here:
“In a patrilocal society, when a man marries, his wife joins him in his father's home or compound, where they raise their children. These children will follow the same pattern. Sons will stay and daughters will move in with their husbands' families. Families living in a patrilocal residence generally assume joint ownership of domestic sources. The household is led by a senior member, who also directs the labor of all other members.”
The form of levirate marriage found in Judaism is called Yibbum. Here is the link to the Wikipedia entry describing this practice.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yibbum
I want to highlight one paragraph particularly, by copy/pasting right here - notice the middle of this paragraph acknowledges that Israelite practice of levirate marriage resulting in polygamy, though not appealing, especially to our modern-day thinking, was seen as a merciful alternative. Point being - straight up acknowledgement of polygamy in these cases which could and did occur.
“Although the stated intent of the levirate law as expressed in Deuteronomy is to provide an heir so that the deceased brother's name "will not be obliterated from Israel" (Deuteronomy 25:6), such laws effectively provided protection for widows as well. At the time the Torah was written, if a woman did not have a husband because of widowhood, she had no one to provide for her any longer and she would be disgraced, if not likely die of starvation. Children were also a means of continued provision, since they are commanded to care and show respect for the elderly as they move further along in years. A childless widow was without both means of provision. Although quite contrary to our modern day dilemmas, even becoming a second wife to a brother-in-law, as indicated in Deuteronomy 25:5-10, was better than living on the streets at the mercy of those around her. Under Torah, men had a responsibility to the women around them, which included life-sustaining provisions (i.e. food, shelter, and comfort). Those of honor were beholden to their responsibility to protect the defenseless.”
Also if you go to the specific criteria of when Yibbum applies - among the 6 conditions that must be met by the brother, not being married is NOT listed as a criteria.
This was a good video. I'm open to the idea that polygamy was about more than sex for Joseph Smith. I base this on my own people the Māori. Traditionally we practice polygamy. This was reserved only for chiefs. Chiefs were expected to remain virgins until marriage and to stay faithful to their wife or wives. This was to protect bloodlines from contamination. It was also considered a measure of that leaders character. Polygamy was done to connect bloodlines. A woman must wait nine months at a time whereas a man can impregnate multiple women at once. As such polygamy was a to connect multiple bloodlines. The first Māori King Potatau Te Whereowhero had four wives. His son King Tawhiao had two wives. Interestingly he himself was a Mormon! Converted by missionaries. Because of this cultural background I'm definitely open to other explanations. Polygamy isn't necessarily simply about sex. Thanks for the video!
Kia ora from Aotearoa (New Zealand).
Hello. I have talked to a member of a group of ex members of the LDS church who have been excommunicated. They insist Joseph never practiced polygamy because some documents apparently say that he never did and because Emma denied the practice. Thus, they say Brigham started the practice. Can you help me understand that?
This is a very helpful research piece written by Brian Hales, who has researched this maybe more than anyone, and it should cover your questions in depth:
journal.interpreterfoundation.org/joseph-smith-monogamist-or-polygamist/
Also note that the Joseph Smith Papers Project just released the 10th volume of documents, which had some additional documentation showing the practice of polygamy by Joseph in Nauvoo. Here is a link to a story about this:
www.thechurchnews.com/history-revisited/2020-05-04/joseph-smith-papers-documents-volume-10-nauvoo-john-c-bennett-plural-marriage-183040
Also here is a link to the main summary page at Fairmormon on this topic, which has many different sub-topics and links:
www.fairmormon.org/answers/Joseph_Smith/Polygamy
You may also like this (rather lengthy) article by Jacob Vidrine entitled “Joseph Smith’s Polygamy: Fact or Fiction?”:
www.oneeternalround.org/files/18-JosephSmithsPolygamy.pdf
Brian Hales also has an amazing website he has put together called josephsmithpolygamy.org - here is the direct link to the main page of his site:
josephsmithspolygamy.org/wordpress/
Brian Hales also manages a huge repository of all the documents in church history related to polygamy (over 3,000):
mormonpolygamydocuments.org/
At this website - there are also some articles and videos linked that you will find on the main page - I will highlight several key ones here related to your question:
“D&C 132: A Series of Questions & Answers” (RUclips video):
ruclips.net/video/PMBWxnHVIuU/видео.html
“Provenance of D&C 132 - Joseph Smith is the Author”:
mormonpolygamydocuments.org/provenance-dc-132-documented/
“Denver Snuffer: Polygamy Reductionist” (RUclips video):
ruclips.net/video/ZpxbfPCP2b8/видео.html
And I can’t leave off the official essays on the church website:
www.churchofjesuschrist.org/topics/plural-marriage-in-kirtland-and-nauvoo?lang=eng
He never practiced spiritual wifery. Not to be confused with plural marriage. Both are polygamy, but one is of God and the other is a counterfeit.
I enjoyed this video. I'm excited to watch part 2. Thank you for making these!!
I think you are really well spoken and this was put together very well... But, much like most men in the church and those with Fair Mormon, it is very apologetic to the history of the church. I'm going to assume you are an active member, which would be why this isn't a very neutral look at polygamy. I would recommend that if you have a wife, daughter, sister, mother, aunt, etc... Listen to what the women actually went through. Check out the podcast: Year of Polygamy. Read the journals of the women and the children involved first hand... Then have an open and honest discussion about it.
Thanks for your comment. I am familiar with the Year of Polygamy podcast and have listened to a number of episodes. I am married and have 4 daughters and acknowledge strongly that polygamy is inherently unfair to women - in the video I did ‘Polygamy Part 3 - The Afterlife’ I focus on the description in D&C 132 describing polygamy similarly to an Abrahamic sacrifice. That being said, I do believe that polygamy was sanctioned by God at times in the Old Testament and was restored for a time in this dispensation (in the video I discuss the reasons given scripturally along with many other speculative possibilities). Because of the nature of what was involved, this was extremely challenging to implement successfully (and it appears Joseph was left without a lot of specifics). One of the most comforting things for me is the number of women who recorded their own spiritual witnesses (or divine manifestations like I talked about in the video). My speculative way of thinking makes me feel like the women who were asked and accepted the practice of polygamy, are getting a ‘double portion’ in the next life!