LGBTQ - Seeking Understanding
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
- In January 2020, the Methodist Church announced they will be splitting in two because of discord over LGBTQ issues; local congregations will vote on with which church they will affiliate. This video reviews The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints’ progress in understanding LGBTQ issues , but also many of the challenges we are still trying to navigate. One of the most important takeaways is our need to increase love and outreach to any LGBTQ members, as Elder Ballard said, "We need to listen to and understand what our LGBT brothers and sisters are feeling and experiencing. Certainly we must do better than we have done in the past so that all members feel they have a spiritual home…"
HERE IS A DIRECT LINK TO THE TRANSCRIPT OF THIS VIDEO FROM THE WEBSITE
latterdaysaint...
Resources:
Books:
Tom Christofferson, That We May Be One, A Gay Mormon’s Perspective on Faith & Family
Fred & Marilyn Matis & Ty Mansfield, In Quiet Desperation
Dennis Schleicher, Is He Nuts? Why a Gay Man Would Become a Member of the Church of Jesus Christ
Many authors, Common Ground, Different Opinions - Latter-day Saints and Contemporary Issues
RUclips Videos:
Faircast interview with Fred & Marilyn Matis (co-authors of In Quiet Desperation):
• "In Quiet Desperation:...
Deseret Book: That We May Be One Roundtable Discussion with Tom Christofferson, along with his past Bishop & Stake President:
• That We May Be One Pan...
Faith Matters Foundation: Interview of Tom Christofferson by Terryl Givens; A Gay Mormon’s Approach to Faith, Family, & Discipleship:
• A Gay Mormon's Approac...
Faith Matters Foundation: Discussion on LGBTQ Policy Reversal with Bill Turnbull, Patrick Mason & Tom Christofferson:
• Tom Christofferson and...
Ty Mansfield - 2014 North Star International Conference, North Star Mission & The Language of Eternity -- • 2014 North Star Confer...
Ganel lyn Condie - Keynote address at 2019 North Star International Conference:
• Tom Christofferson and...
North Star International RUclips Channel: / northstarlds
Elder Christofferson TV interview, from which clip came shared in this video:
kutv.com/news/...
Latter-day Saints Q&A Video on Sustaining Fallible Prophets: • Sustaining Fallible Ch...
Websites/Articles:
mormonandgay.churchofjesuschrist.org
Church gospel topics essay on same sex attraction: www.churchofje...
Church gospel topics essay on same sex marriage: www.churchofje...
Fairmormon link to numerous sub-topics: www.fairmormon...
Fairmormon link to numerous sub-topics related to the Proclamation on the Family: www.fairmormon...
Fairmormon Q&A on Receiving Revelation that Contradicts the Prophet: www.fairmormon...
North Star President Letter to Members - Awake & Arise: A Call to Action: static1.square...
President Nelson’s address at BYU in Sept 2019: www.thechurchn...
Elder Holland’s Ensign Article on how to Help those struggling with Same-Sex Attraction: www.churchofje...
Fairmormon Essay by Gregory Smith on LBGT Policy Reversal: www.fairmormon...
PBS Article mentioned in the video on the largest study ever done on science behind the ‘gay gene’: www.pbs.org/ne...
Faith Matters Foundation article by Tom Christofferson, A Place For Our Fellow Saints: faithmatters.o...
Faith Matters Foundation article with a number of links - What about our LGBT brothers and sisters? faithmatters.o...
Church Public Affairs interview with Elder Oaks and Elder Wickman on same-gender attraction: newsroom.churc...
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I'm a very happy member of the church and gay. I was baptized in October 2017. Thanks for your treatment of this topic. I thought it quite balanced.
I cherish your comment and feedback! Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!
Amen to your statement Graig Newsome.
Thank you so much for all your research and sharing on this issue. As a mother of a 17-year-old gay son who plans to serve a mission and asks me all the questions on this topic, your presentation is a lifeline. My husband and I appreciate so much the thorough treatment of the information and your willingness to share it!! I’ve screen shot many quotes from it and am keeping the transcript on my desktop. My husband and I are deeply grateful.
It made my day to read your comment - so grateful you found the video to be helpful, particularly given your current family circumstances. God bless you and your family in the journey ahead!
These are best videos to understand policies of the church.
This is a very well put together presentation that helps us all become more understanding and less judgmental. I appreciate this very much. Thank You!
Thanks for the comment!
It very well presented that actually teaches us to have compassion and show love to our fellow beings no matter what. I love your “youtube” presentations and hope that the viewer numbers will increase.
Thank you!
We are called to Agape love all the citizens of Idumea, Because Jesus 1st loved us.
Brother this was the most exceptional video on such a charged and emotional topic I have ever seen! As I’ve said before Brother, this is your calling! I can’t imagine the time, and resources you’ve had to search out in order for your videos to be done so well. I told my Bishop about your videos. On his trip out of state he’s taking, he’s going to watch your videos! Blessed are all who takes refuge in our Lord and savior Jesus the Christ. Amen.
Thank you!
Well said!
It's not my business. Why we think it ought too, be? Is bezoar to me. Christ turns no one away.
These lovely people from our Heavenly Father? Are not broken..... We need to stop acting as, they are!
For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others-and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”Matthew 19.
We are sealed unto the day of redemption- Ephesians 4:30. No on can be removed from the hand of God- John 10:28.
Can a Gay Person Go to Heaven?
If you are gay, lesbian, bisexual, or transgender, and you are concerned about whether you will go to heaven, this is for you. You don't ever need to be afraid. You are beloved! Today’s religious leaders tell kids, and adults, that they’re not going to heaven because of their sexuality or identity - that they didn’t choose and can’t change? They are shutting off the kingdom of heaven to them. Yeah, it’s not okay. The key is to understand that these words of condemnation and judgment, have nothing to do with you. Nothing to do with God! You are all good!
We are all broken, why else would there be need for repentance? Christ does love everyone, just not Sins and there are a lot of them.
@@trishachristensen7667 , Your concepts? Are not true. I find a contradiction when Christians say ''You're born a sinner' yet another verse states ''we are fearfully and wonderfully made''???
Babies are not born into sin and are not guilty of sins of their fathers or Adam - Deu. 24:16, 2 Chron. 25:4
Many Christian religions believe that we are born in sin due to “Adams Transgression” yet though this is a common belief someone else’s choices cannot make you a sinner. When one is born they are without sin. We learn this in Moroni 8:10-21
We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
When we renew our baptismal covenants in this way, the Lord renews the cleansing effect of our baptism. In this way we are made clean and can always have His Spirit to be with us. The importance of this is evident in the Lord’s commandment that we partake of the sacrament each week (see D&C 59:8-9).
The gospel isn't books. Matthew, Mark Luke, and John aren't the gospel, they teach the gospel. Then what is the true gospel of Jesus Christ?
Answer- faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and his atonement, repentance, baptism by immersion for the remission of sin, receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, and enduring to the end that is the gospel.
I'm sealed unto the day of redemption Ephesians 4:30
Did Christ pay for past, present and, future Sins? Do you believe God holds Sins against us anymore?
You will cure more Sins will compassions than, you ever will with condemnation my friend.
You know people? Who die of a Sunless life, or die because of health related or some natural causes!?!
@@bcg3166 You are mistaken Latter-day Saints teach for doctrine that we don't become accountable for sin until the age of Eight onward. We don't believe in Original Sin as babies.
“Being gay” does NOT equal sex or breaking temple covenants.
It’s about WHO you are attracted to.
You can be a virgin and be gay.
Yes you can, it's not wrong until we ACT upon our feelings
I would love for you to do a video regarding women’s role and leadership in regards to the 144,000 priests/priestesses. You did one on Heavenly Mother, and I’d love to see your take on priesthood vs priestesshood or how women call on the priesthood.
I did produce a video with the title "Women And The Priesthood" where I discuss the topic of women and priesthood power, authority & blessings
Thank you, I tried looking and couldn’t find it in your videos, but I’ll look again.
Here is a direct link to the video:
ruclips.net/video/wFYvmkivGX0/видео.html
@@latterdaysaintsqa I remember hearing recently the number 144,000 was not necessarily literal - thoughts?
President Henry B. Eyring stated:
The title of the proclamation on the family reads: “The Family: A Proclamation to the World-The First Presidency and Council of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.”
Three things about the title are worth our careful reflection. First, the subject: the family. Second, the audience, which is the whole world. And third, those proclaiming it are those we sustain as prophets, seers, and revelators. All this means that the family must be of tremendous importance to us, that whatever the proclamation says could help anyone in the world, and that the proclamation fits the Lord’s promise when he said, “Whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same” (D&C 1:38)
This was magnificent.
As a faithful Saint whose best friend is gay, and always has and always will be, this was a wonderful dive into loving gospel teachings. It reaffirms my testimony of Him, my and resolution to live with love.
Thank you!
To me sex with the same gender is the same as sex outside of marriage. I dont think it's good but it's none of my business what other people do as long as they dont try to force me to believe a certain way.
DDFStar: One can be a virgin and be gay. Being gay has nothing to do with sex. It’s who you’ve been attracted to since you were a small child.
@@katbos4995 this comment doesn't make sense to me.
I believe that Jesus loves all of his children.
Such good information, but way to fast. Especially when you came to Oaks and McKay. I even stopped it enlarged, and read, but missed your words.
Thank you - that splice in of Oaks and McKay was from a different video I did and it was an editing error on the speed. You can adjust the playback speed on RUclips. Also note I have transcripts for the videos on my website latterdaysaintsqa.com under the "read the blog" section.
Of all the things about the church, I don't inderstand their stance on this. It's pretty new.
Having same sex attraction and being able to have a Temple Recommend or (ie) be the Young Women's President being openly 'Queer'......?
It's mentioned many times in scripture about our thoughts. If we have an attraction to the same sex, our thoughts are still pure? If it's not being acted on, why even bring it up If? ie. If one eye goes astray, get rid of the other? If a man looks at another women in lust, that's a sin. Lust/attraction.
It's very clear in scripture about this. It's like the church is caving under the pressure of the outside world? Just my thoughts. I'm old and it's hard to wrap my head around this.
If I was attracted/sexually to another woman, I would work that out with my Bishop or church members I trusted in. Prayer....
But I don't know why people's sexual stuff is other people's business, anyways.
Help.....
Even though this topic may seem hard to understand, I hope I can share some things that will help you with your questions. You asked how, someone could have an attraction to the same sex, and yet still have pure thoughts when Christ taught that lusting in your heart is a sin. Elder Richard G. Scott gave insight to this paradox when he said, “The Lord sees weaknesses differently than He does rebellion. … When the Lord speaks of weaknesses, it is always with mercy.”
Many LGBTQ members of the church are not rebellious. They want to be faithful to Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ, but they have these involuntary thoughts of same-sex attraction that enter their minds. We all face thoughts that tempt us in one way or another. It’s what we do with those temptations that determines our worthiness. We are still worthy if we strive to quickly cast out those thoughts and keep our focus on Jesus Christ who promises to help us. Elder Soares, said, “Despite our continuous efforts to seek out the Lord, inappropriate thoughts may penetrate our mind….… our mortal inclinations will not disappear on their own. Fighting against temptation takes a lifetime of diligence and faithfulness. But please know that the Lord is ready to assist us in our personal efforts and promises remarkable blessings if we endure to the end.”
As far as your concern about LGBTQ members making this issue public rather than keeping it private, let me share some reasons for choosing to make it public that may be less evident. Being open about their same-sex attraction can provide them with additional support and resources that can strengthen them in their resolve to live the gospel, instead of just trying to struggle through in private. Family, friends, and even public support groups like NorthStar, (which I mention in my video) can strengthen faith and help them feel accepted and loved as they face this challenge, similar to those who face other challenges in life, such as mental illnesses, disabilities, or disease; each of these challenges can be better faced when you can share the struggle with others who can support, understand, and love you.
Heavenly Father loves all His children and wants each of them to come back to Him. I don’t think the Church is caving when they give temple recommends to LGBTQ members who are faithfully living the law of chastity and meet other temple worthiness requirements or who hold callings of all kinds in their wards. You mentioned that The Church has changed the way they viewed LGBTQ members in the past. It is wonderful that there has come a greater understanding that LGBTQ members’ worthiness is judged by the same standards as any other member, by living all the standards set-forth in the temple recommend questions, including the question about the law of chastity - which law and the related scriptures are now understood to be associated with behavior and not same-sex attraction itself.
The updated wording of the temple recommend questions related to chastity state: The Lord has said that all things are to be “done in cleanliness” before Him (Doctrine and Covenants 42:41). Do you strive for moral cleanliness in your thoughts and behavior? Do you obey the law of chastity? Notice the word, “strive,” in that temple recommend question. Repentance is the second principle of the gospel and those who strive have the blessing of using it every day to be counted worthy. Individual worthiness is determined by our Heavenly Father, with our Bishop, acting as His judge on earth. After all, “who am I to judge another.” This sentiment is summed up in this beautiful hymn, which I will end with.
Lord, I Would Follow Thee
Savior, may I learn to love thee, Walk the path that thou hast shown
Pause to help and lift another, Finding strength beyond my own.
Savior, may I learn to love thee-Lord, I would follow thee.
Who am I to judge another When I walk imperfectly?
In the quiet heart is hidden Sorrow that the eye can’t see.
Who am I to judge another? Lord, I would follow thee.
I would be my brother’s keeper; I would learn the healer’s art.
To the wounded and the weary I would show a gentle heart.
I would be my brother’s keeper- Lord, I would follow thee.
Savior, may I love my brother As I know thou lovest me
Find in thee my strength, my beacon, For thy servant I would be.
Savior, may I love my brother-Lord, I would follow thee.
Thank you SO much for doing this!! I am grateful for your sharing this!
Spirit birth comes to pass through procreative power. You MAY KNOW. PRAY.
the spirit had already existed before we came into earth life to be born into these bodies.
Our trials are from our one on one with our Heavenly Father to help change in a Certain time time line: like Cain his choices and black time to have the rights to be out of slavery to vote (same for women's rights etc...)and hold the preast hood and in time line for guy's to be apart of the church etc...this is what I believe ♥️
Thank you for your internet missionary work good sir. Daily, I pray and ponder how I might be able to reach just one person, near or far, with the Gospel using the magnificent internet. There are so many places, so many people, who would benefit greatly from this gospel.
Very good presentation of this difficult topic. Thank you
Thanks for your kind comment
This comment is not to the author of the videos. It’s a general observation:
If you’ve felt same sex attraction since you can recall (3-5 years old), and prayer doesn’t remove who you’re attracted to. Doesn’t it seem to be that a person was created that way?
It would be hard for a straight person try to stop their attraction to the opposite sex. (I’m NOT talking about sexual acts, I’m talking about ATTRACTION.)
Oh my gosh, I have thought about this. I agree with you, prayer won't change that.
The only thing I can come up with is that this is your life battle as we all have them to overcome.
You may not like it that I believe that liking the same sex is not right, but the act of carrying on a relationship is what is offensive. You can be either and never act on it and be fine. It's like being straight and never having a marriage and not ever having sex. It sure is hard for both but if we love God we keep his commandments as hard as that may be.
I have to say that this is what helps me to understand your struggle with same sex attraction. I feel a lot more compassion, but it doesn't change what is true.
Thank you for taking the time to put this together and showing such love and reverence for this topic.
Thank you!
This was a beautiful presentation on a difficult subject, the spirit was very sweet.
Thank you! I truly appreciate your comment!! It was a very challenging topic and I was striving so hard to have the spirit so it means a lot to hear your impression!
I love this. I am a member and also gay. The church means everything to me. This video you have produced is a blessing. I especially love your videos on church history. I served a mission in Cleveland Ohio which also included the Kirtland Temple Visitor Center and surrounding areas. Church history holds a special place in my heart.
THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!!
Whenever people, ask how will we know if the prophet is speaking by revelation or by themselves, I've found it always best to answer with a question: Well, when are they speaking with revelation? The answer will tell ou more about a person and where they see revelation and prophets than anything else.
My sister is gay and has been for all of our lives. Both of us members all of that time. I've always been active, she has drifted away because of her lifestyle but not with any animosity. It isn't hard to love her. Eternity is big enough to learn and understand. We'll both learn all the why's there.
I use to be very anti-gay but after hearing about some devout members I came to realize that being gay is not a choice but their chemical or biological makeup. Lord also said do not judge. Being gay or lesbian is NOT their choosing, that is way they’re made. Just as we are attracted to certain or different things. Art, cars, nature etc. I appreciate ALL sincere devotion to God. Let’s be loving, be kind, understanding.
Thank you for sharing!
I respectfully disagree with this. I used to believe that this was a choice. I definitely believe that most are not given the choice. I do know some who have chosen this life style. Most I know have not chosen.
@@trishachristensen7667 you just agree with him. You said the exact thing he said. Tf
Amazing video! So nice to lay out the doctrine and separate misguided church culture from the core doctrine. I also love that the best answer is to increase our love and empathy! Comes back to Christ's teachings "love our neighbor" and "comfort those who stand in need of comfort."
Thank you so much for your comment - it gets to the heart of what I hoped would be received from the video!
I love what you said about agreeing to disagree, but having one heart and one mind (toward Christ) to become a Zion people. If we all have our eyes on Christ and His gospel, we will all grow closer together, no matter our differences.
Thanks for the comment - love it!
@@latterdaysaintsqaThis will not work with those who are not committed to giving everything all up on the altar. And when it comes to those who only have SSA attraction this is what the Lord is asking. When it comes to SSA, the law of chastity is all-encompassing on everything being all off limits when it comes to SSA expression. So its not the same level of sacrifice even though its the same law for everybody who is not married..
What makes it more difficult is when married members of the Church who don't have SSA only Attraction who go on about how good everything is going for them in their own personal lives about how happy they are with their own eternal companions, and unfortunately that polarisation causes pain and sadness for those who are not attracted at all to the opposite sex and reminds them of their single status and the SSA restrictions. Like what the Elder said about his own mentally handicapped daughter Courtney who was sad each time she looked at the temple seeing other happy married couples walking out or into the temple from her window and she could not enter into the temple herself to marry and be happy like they were and was sad when she saw them receiving the blessings here in this life because she knew that would not be her mortal experience here in this life. That is the situation with those who are not attracted at all to the opposite sex to marry. They are sad because God said they cannot marry the same sex.
So the only solution I see of this very complicated deep issue is that they have to walk that lonely hard and difficult road of Chastity in the here and now and deny themselves of having same sex relations) and this is what Elder Holland is pretty much telling the gay members in this life with the time that is left remaining before the savior returns if unable to marry here in this life because of having feelings they did not choose to have then they will have to marry during the Millennium to the opposite sex when they have the opportunity to be able to marry because I dont see them having the opportunity here in this life be able to marry if when they do marry, the mixed orientation marriages often fall apart after just a few years because of ongoing deep SSA conflicts that never go away and keep on persisting. We haven't the time for marriage crashes anymore so the focus has to turn now to keeping the law of chastity in order to be ready in time. So I think this SSA thing falls into this category of being unable to marry being of no fault of their own if the marriages just keep on crashing and burning..
There are those who listen to the world who say that the gay condition is forever so they demand the church allow same-sex marriage.. While the Leaders of the Church say that the gay condition is only just here this life only and that is what upset those gay members in the Church who believe in what the world has to say about it and not what the Apostles of the Lord have said about it. Elder Oaks seems to be saying that the condition was brought about on some on the planet by the Fall. And If we did not have the FALL, then the condition would not exist. For Elder Holland said its not a pre-mortal condition, it didn't exist in the pre-mortal world so we know it was not part of our eternal past nor is it a post mortal condition to affect the the eternal future. Its only just in the here and now and so I come to the conclusion that the SSA condition is here in the here and now
because of the Fall.
50:00 d&c131,1-4 without Marge entry in prohibited. (Paraphrase)
I will be only aloud to enter lesser grades of hell or hell itself , if I continue my choice of solatude?
I'm aware that this is an alphabet soup video which does not apply to my situation putting my question out of context for THIS video yet it is still a question that is deeply concerning this morning. My choice was made for safety of others and an abandonment of may be.
This will be one of the great works of the Millennium - all these things will be worked out and no blessing sought after by the righteous will be denied. The spirit world is part of our “second estate” experience, prior to the judgement, and all blessings sought after will be made right. Here are some great quotes from church leaders speaking on this topic:
President Russell M. Nelson (then Elder Nelson) in Oct 2008 General Conference said,
“What of the many mature members of the Church who are not married? Through no failing of their own, they deal with the trials of life alone. Be we all reminded that, in the Lord’s own way and time, no blessings will be withheld from His faithful Saints. The Lord will judge and reward each individual according to heartfelt desire as well as deed.”
President Spencer W. Kimball:
“We promise you that insofar as eternity is concerned, no soul will be deprived of rich and high and eternal blessings for anything which that person could not help, that the Lord never fails in his promises, and that every righteous person will receive eventually all to which the person is entitled and which he or she has not forfeited through any fault of his or her own” (“The Importance of Celestial Marriage,” Ensign, Oct. 1979, 5).
Elder Jeffrey R. Holland in Oct 1999 General Conference:
“Some blessings come soon, some come late, and some don’t come until heaven; but for those who embrace the gospel of Jesus Christ, they come. Of that I personally attest”
Elder Boyd K. Packer in Oct 2012 General Conference:
“These are temporary states. In the eternal scheme of things-not always in mortality-righteous yearning and longing will be fulfilled.”
President Joseph Fielding Smith in his book Elijah the Prophet and His Mission, pg 51:
“You good sisters, who are single and alone, do not fear that blessings are going to be withheld from you. You are not under any obligation or necessity of accepting some proposal that comes to you which is distasteful for fear you will come under condemnation. If in your hearts you feel the gospel is true and would under proper conditions receive these ordinances and sealing blessings in the temple of the Lord, and that is your faith and your hope and your desire, and that does not come to you now, the Lord will make it up, and you shall be blessed, for no blessing shall be withheld.”
As to when the opportunity to marry will be given to one who dies without this blessing, there are two clues in the following resources. The Gospel Principles manual clarifies that marriage ordinances will be performed during the millennium.
“There will be two great works for members of the Church during the Millennium: temple work and missionary work. Temple work involves the ordinances that are necessary for exaltation. These include baptism, the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost, and the temple ordinances-the endowment, temple marriage, and the sealing together of family units. Many people have died without receiving these ordinances. People on the earth must perform these ordinances for them. This work is now being done in the temples of the Lord. There is too much work to finish before the Millennium begins, so it will be completed during that time. Resurrected beings will help us correct the mistakes we have made in doing research concerning our dead ancestors. They will also help us find the information we need to complete our records. (See Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, comp. Bruce R. McConkie, 3 vols. [1954-56], 2:167, 251-52.)”
Elder Talmage, in his book Jesus the Christ, seems to be saying that any remaining marriages will happen prior to being resurrected.
“In the resurrection there will be no marrying nor giving in marriage; for all questions of marital status must be settled before that time, under the authority of the Holy Priesthood, which holds the power to seal in marriage for both time and eternity.” (Chapter 31).
@@latterdaysaintsqa dose a sealing to parents check the box or is the ceiling to a spouse the only manner in which the box can be checked?
Your response and the citations you have provided do not make a connection to parents. The connection to parents was made through personal conversation within my ward.
This article on the church website about temple sealings should give some more insights (however specificity beyond this hasn’t been revealed to a great degree, so much will still be learned in the afterlife)
www.churchofjesuschrist.org/temples/what-happens-in-a-temple-sealing?lang=eng
@@latterdaysaintsqa They have to work that out in the millennium
Thankyou for this.
The faithful experiences of gay members are remarkable and truly inspiring. Where I get stuck:
1. Assurances to the contrary, there is no revelation supporting the idea that gay relationships or orientation will/will not continue into the eternities. We don't know.
2. There is nothing in latter-day scripture (BoM, D&C, PoGP) that addresses homosexuality. Using fornication as the catch-all term arguably still allows sex within committed married relationships, straight or gay.
3. The New Testament references to homosexuality also condemns divorce, prohibits women from speaking in church, and how to treat slaves - it can be seen as speaking to cultural attitudes of the time, not necessarily the will of the Lord.
4. The Proclamation on The Family just restates the position of the church, and does not provide any new revelation - perhaps why it has never been canonized.
IMHO The church is desperately in need of a Spencer Kimball who is brave enough to actually ask the Lord and not assume we already know the answer. The only sources we have now are all based on tradition, bias and ignorance. If a doctrine is going to be the source of so much pain, heartbreak and struggle, we'd better have a stronger case than we currently do that it is truly the will of the Lord. (I'm looking at you, ban on the priesthood).
mormonlgbtquestions.com/
Hi Chris - long time no talk too! So glad you found the channel and I appreciate your comment. This was definitely the most challenging video I have done and I developed a new-found level of empathy for the struggle of our LGBTQ members. In the video, I did want to make clear what the apostles are currently saying (i.e. only a condition in mortality, no opening for same-sex marriage, law of chastity, etc). One of the key parts of this video was sharing the segment from my video, “Sustaining Fallible Church Leaders”, with the hope that we can all pray for our leaders, the body of the saints collectively, and ourselves. If any more light and knowledge is supposed to come on any of these topics, pray that the leaders will receive it, but also that the church membership as a whole will receive it (a critical component that I elaborated on in the video), and then the most important prayer is for ourselves individually, to be open to changing our own thoughts as the Spirit enlightens our understanding, and to be willing to also say, “but if not” then I will endure in all patience and faith…
@@latterdaysaintsqa I'm digging your channel and appreciate the hard work to put each video out. I also appreciate how sensitive and difficult a topic this is to address. I think you're doing a great job. Keep up the good work!
It could be that there is no lord capable of answering the tough questions. It might be best to depend on social science.
Thanks Chris!!
📙💯
You must be a good man to be able after the decade of endless attacks on our faith to so calmly explain our beliefs. In my experience too many members support gay marriage doctrinal changes. It's apostate and conflicts with temple recommend question 7.
Thanks for the comment - as I was preparing the video I just kept thinking about Zion - of one heart and one mind, and how are we ever going to get there on this issue within the church, which is why I kept emphasizing prayer in the video! I did find it interesting the clarification Elder Christofferson shared in relation to same-sex marriage opinions and the temple recommend question (53:17 to 55:25 in the video) in his interview. Having this contrary position to the institutional church however, can become a slippery slope and it also sets one up for some potential future challenges (as I mentioned towards the end of the video in the priesthood ban comparison slide).
@@latterdaysaintsqa I think the question was is it okay to advocate for civil gay marriage. Some may be for gay marriage because their libertarian or just tied of the political fight. On the topic of advocacy to change the doctrine to force the church into gay sealings is a clearly a violation of upholding the prophets and the doctrine. Sadly I've been in Sunday school lessons where people purpose this.
I think an even trickier subject is in regards to our transgender brothers and sisters. For a gay man, for example, he can still attend Priesthood, attend the temple, etc. But what does someone do, when they are born female, and transition to male? Where is their place? My nephew is trans and this, of course, has been extremely heavy upon the family. Quite the thing, to wrestle with. Would a trans man be able to have the Priesthood, and marry a woman in the temple? I am assuming no. It causes a massive quandry...."where do we go from here?"
No, if they had gender re-assignment surgery, to change their sex from a woman into a man, I dont' think they will be allowed to hold the priesthood. The brethren will have to sort out these tricky issues.
@@gregorysmithj1The only solution marriage provides is in the Millennium for this kind of issue which means they must remain celibate and single here in this life if not married.. Reason why is because the gay condition is only
here in this life.
It is a difficult subject. I do not believe the LDS church should change it policy, but we as members believe the church is led directly by Christ and directs the leadership in the way the church should go, and be all should follow the Prophet. My niece was gay and as she grew up she was not aware that she was gay until later in life. My sister knew she was but let her choose for herself.. I loved my niece and until her death we were close. I wish the best for her in the afterlife an I believe the Lord in his wisdom loves all his children. Be kind to your brothers and sisters this life is a trial for all of us.Love you all, and peace of Christ be with you.
Well said and I am sorry for your loss
LGBTQ Saints are equal to all.
Agree!
Split church? Guess it comes down to not accepting the written WORD. The scriptures cannot be changed. There is no doubt that the body of Christ the Believers, and I'm not speaking of religion, I'm speaking of Believers--not any specific religion. true believers do not do religion, we have relationship with YAHUAH, in Yahushua the Messiah. what I'm saying is: can we change the Holy Scriptures?the written word of the Messiah given by the Elohim? Our Father is very clear. This does not mean we do not love every creature God has created, we do; and we hope and pray For All people and we want to lead them to the truth, not our Truth, but HIS. These people, no matter what the sin is have been given over to a delusion, Father calls it a depraved mind". There all being deceived. this has nothing to do with religion this is about following the Savior and what he said for us to do. John 14 says if you love me you will follow my Commandments 1st John 1 through 5 says if you say you love me but you do not follow my Commandments then you are a liar and the truth is not in you." There are too many scriptures for me to quote here and those of you who are in the word of GOD, in Christ, know that there are--cannot twist the scripture to fit the lifestyle and the fact that it is splitting the church, well that's something to be looked at. Yahushua did not come to Destroy The law, he said "I have not come to destroy the law but to fulfill it." (and he di, he is our Torah . we are to follow HIM, HE IS THE WAY, THE TRUTH & THE LIFE. YAGUSHUA told us that HE only does and say what the Father has told him to do and say. He followed the Torah, and we are told by him to Follow him. Let us all pray for all, because we love all, all oftoldhave sinned, still sin, and are repenting at one time-- some of us still struggling. But we cannot change the Word of our true Elohim: Yahushua ha moschiach. and our Abba father Yahuwah. we must search our hearts and know what the ruach is saying to his church. The church is not a building it is one on one Fellowship in true love. let us pray for one another for it is the evil one who is trying to come against us; The apostasy, it's scriptural it's prophesied. we are to know, our father yawa told us my people perish for lack of knowledge study to show thyself approved, may be the acceptable will of God. We are to love one another, seek Him and repent & not judge but help each other to stand firm. Father told us that the evil one is a roaring lion that roams the Earth seeking whom he may devour. This is how he does it by dividing us let us pray that we love one another and stand together in Yahushua name. ahmeib🙏🌷💓😇👑
Judging by your jargon, your obviously not mormon
re : the Methodist split. I'm an atheist but my wife is Methodist. This split between liberal and traditional will be hard on everyone. People will have to choose sides between "open hearts, open minds" and "gays are not welcome". I'm not affected but she is on the side of love.
I have just found your videos. Thank you for educating me further and pointing me in the direction to find the information myself. If I can make one recommendation.. please talk/read.. sometimes you get going so fast.. my brain can’t take it all in 😵💫
So glad you found the channel. Sorry for the pace being a little fast - I have done that on a handful of videos when I had a lot to go over. One solution that works on RUclips is the ability to slow the pace of the video down by changing the playback settings. Here is how you do that on RUclips: click on the settings (the wheel icon in the bottom right corner of the video screen itself on a computer, or if on a phone its the top right corner 3 dots), you can select the playback speed and you slow things down in increments (the next step down from normal would be .75x or 25% slower). You can also choose the “custom” button and choose a precise speed desired rather than the pre-defined suggestions.
:D I love it
Tough subject.
Yes it its - I think it was the most challenging video I have put together
Thanks for taking the time to make this video! This is a great resource that I look forward to being able to share!
Thank you - glad to hear!
The Lord does give revelation based on how the hearts of His people will receive it. For example an eye for an eye is far from a perfect law but that was a component of the law of Moses because The Lord's people were not ready for more. So changes in policy of children with homosexual adoptive parents is explained to me in this way the hearts of the people changed.
Thank you so much for the work and effort you put into your videos.
Thank you!
Great video - wow you put a lot of work into this! This is the first one of yours I've watched, very impressed. Thanks for gathering all these video clips, podcast snippets, quotes, excellent. Some content felt a little rushed (but actually that might have been in some of the older videos you included). I found myself just pausing and reading some of the quotes. Overall very good overview of a complex topic.
Thank you, and yes, there was a spliced in video segment that was too fast. My daughter does the editing and I had asked her to do the video and audio splices at 1.25x speed except the one of me from a prior video (since I already speak quickly as it is!), but she missed that and when I realized the error, it was too late to edit
@@latterdaysaintsqa understandable.. video editing takes a lot of time & work!
Latter-Day Saints’ Q&A you’re videos are awesome and I agree if you slowed the speed to at list normal it would be better. I don’t mind how fast you talk but when it’s speed up it creates a dismissive attitude I’m the video.
My friends I am saying this out of love .....because Jesus truly loves everyone. Repent, and Jesus will save you don't give up. I was doing my own thing to but Jesus has forgiven me he will forgive you to .
Roman ch 1 v 21-29. I want to see you in heaven when the lord returns. Jesus is strong enough to save you. Run from sin to the arms of Jesus and he will change you.amen
I’m just gay man. Nothing wrong with it.
I know I've said rude, random comments in the past, not realizing until years later that a couple of my friends were lesbians. Now I look back and wonder... did I say rude comments to either of those friends who I assumed were straight? Honestly, I'll never know.
Thanks for sharing. I think the awareness and sensitivity has grown over the years for many and its wonderful to see the emphasis from the Church for members to increase our efforts to show love.
I appreciate the deep-dive into this tender topic. As a grandmother of a beautiful Gay granddaughter, I traveled this hard road with her in a unique and loving companionship where we love and respect each other even her parents rejected her behaviors in hurtful ways. Now, her parents have become more supportive but are leaving the church. Recently, Elder Holland’s comments have upset them and even me. I feeI he has been a loving support of LGBTQ individuals, but his talk to the faculty was harsh and hurtful. Now I feel I lost trust in him. I know how to work with this, but my loved ones will not. Your thoughts about this. Thank you, and when this video popped up on my feed, I saw it as an answer to prayers!
Thank you for reaching out! I’m glad the timing of seeing the video was an answer to prayer! I’ll do my best to share some of my thoughts on Elder Holland’s talk that may help you in appreciating his remarks and perhaps still seeing that his love for LGBTQ individuals hasn’t changed.
My first strong suggestion, if you haven’t already, is to listen to his talk in its entirety, rather than reading it. By listening, you are able to feel his (at times, tearful) emotion, deep concern, and love, which isn’t as evident when you are just reading his words. It was insightful and helpful for me to hear that the leaders of the Church are spending countless hours pondering and praying over what the Church can and can’t support related to LGBTQ issues. I felt that Elder Holland was sincere in representing the Church leadership’s desire to be led by the Lord regarding this issue.
Also, it is helpful to remember that Elder Holland is speaking to the faculty of a church owned school, acknowledging that they have a unique and divine mission to defend the doctrine of the church, even when it may be in conflict with popular societal or academic views. Church funds pay their salary; thus, he could express a stronger tone towards their behavior than if he were speaking to the general public. They should be held to a higher standard of defending Church doctrine and not openly criticizing it. If the goal is just to become like any other academic institution, even at the expense of abandoning church doctrine, Elder Holland points out that this price would be too high and that the tithing dollars should be prudently directed elsewhere. Some of Elder Holland’s rebukes were aimed at faculty members, some who failed to defend church doctrine, some who were actively involved in protests against the Church, and some who were teaching things that were in direct opposition to the Church. The doctrine of the family was used as a key example. Elder Holland’s musket fire analogy was attacked by critics as being literal but, it was clearly metaphorical. For example, he described protestors who aimed fire at church headquarters so obviously it was only a metaphor since we know that literal gun fire has not been aimed at Church head quarters from BYU. Rationally, it follows that when he used the same metaphor to say the faculty needs to do better at taking up arms to defend the church, it was likewise metaphorical, similar to President Nelson challenged the youth to join the “Youth Battalion”, or how we sing the Christian hymn “Onward Christian Soldiers”. Elder Holland’s point is that the BYU faculty have a powerful influence on young, developing testimonies and Elder Holland is asking them to defend the doctrines of the Church rather than fight them. He also explains Church leadership’s recent focus on avoiding divisions and, instead, striving to unify us under the banner we all share as children of God, our ultimate identifier. This may have been part of the thinking about bringing up the valedictorian speech - which was not intended as an attack on the individual, but was directed to the faculty of BYU, who were responsible for approving this speech (Matt Easton did nothing wrong - his speech was approved!).
As I emphasized in the video when I shared the quote from Elder Ballard, we need to do much better at showing love towards our LGBTQ brothers and sisters. This is something at which I continue to try to do better. It can be a very delicate balancing act, as Elder Holland just expressed, “As near as I can tell, Christ never once withheld His love from anyone, but He also never once said to anyone, 'Because I love you, you are exempt from keeping my commandments. ' We are tasked with trying to strike that same sensitive, demanding balance in our lives,”
I recently saw this meme posted by a friend and it really resonated with me:
Every conversation on morality in the modern world:
Secular Society: We want to do “X”
The Church: You are free to do it
Secular Society: But you think “X” is wrong
The Church: Yes
Secular Society: Because you want to control us
The Church: No. You are free to do what you want
Secular Society: But you think “X” is wrong
The Church: Yes, but only because we want your ultimate good, which is the definition of love.
Secular Society: But we want to do “X”
The Church: You are free to do it
Secular Society: But we want you to say that “X” is good
The Church: We cannot say that
Secular Society: Why do you hate us?
How we understand and discuss or think of LGBTQ issues and the Church can be significantly impacted by the way we view the world. At the 2021 FAIR Conference, Jeffrey Thane gave a talk on this precise issue which I found really stuck a chord. If you haven’t seen this talk yet, I would highly suggest watching it:
“Worldview Apologetics: Revealing the Waters We Swim In”:
ruclips.net/video/SHdIsT4eiEQ/видео.html
Some have argued that Church leaders will eventually make changes to LGBTQ policies due to social pressure like they did with the priesthood ban. However, I feel like this issue which is scripturally based is different from the priesthood ban which wasn’t scripturally based and was stated as being temporary, even by Brigham Young. To change the Church’s marriage doctrine would require a change to the doctrine of the family, which is deeply rooted in scripture, along with a change to the law of chastity as it relates to the sinfulness of homosexual behavior, which is also rooted in scripture (see the video for scriptural references).
The way I like to discuss potential changes in LGBTQ Church policies with people is to share that while I don’t think that these things will change, I always want to stay open to further light and knowledge that could come to Church leaders, as they continue to pray about the matter, which, Elder Holland expressed in his talk, they are doing. Like I shared in the video - I emphasize that I am praying for 3 groups of people:
1. I pray for the leaders of the Church that they will be praying, seeking and receiving any additional light and knowledge that God wants us to have now on this topic (which is why I was thrilled to hear Elder Holland acknowledge their pleadings on this).
2. I pray for the general membership of the Church to be able to receive anything that God wants us to know more on this topic; like the “Samuel Principle” that Elder Benson discussed (quote I shared in the video) - sometimes God can be held back because the members collectively aren’t ready or want something different.
3. I pray for myself! That I can be flexible and receptive to the ongoing guidance from the Holy Ghost and I can change my perspective if needed.
Lastly, let me share a number of helpful resources I have digested recently (a number dealing directly with Elder Holland’s talk):
These first 4 are RUclips videos from Greg Mattson, who hosts the YT channel CWIC. These were all related in someway to Elder Holland’s talk:
Elder Holland’s BYU Speech Commentary:
ruclips.net/video/TCk06mPcU-c/видео.html
Holland Speech - Muskets and the Hyperbolic Aftermath:
ruclips.net/video/tt41yFAR4Ag/видео.html
Clear Thinking - NAACP, Elder Holland’s BYU Speech & LGBTQ
ruclips.net/video/wbl4mOcMoFs/видео.html
Elder Holland's Speech, Critical Race Theory, & Safe Spaces w/ Ben Pacini
ruclips.net/video/EZwPV4ofEXo/видео.html
Some other videos:
Benjamin Pacini YT Channel: “The Unique Mission of BYU: Responses to Elder Holland's Address”
ruclips.net/video/RSKpJlQx7KI/видео.html
Carl Trueman (at FAIR 2021 Conference; he is a well-regarded theologian and Presbyterian minister): “The Rise and Triumph of the Modern Self: Expressive Individualism, Cultural Amnesia and the Road to Sexual Revolution”:
ruclips.net/video/mwQYxRjp0-0/видео.html
Dr. Lisa Diamond on sexual fluidity of men and women:
ruclips.net/video/m2rTHDOuUBw/видео.html
Some publications:
Jacob Hess in Public Square Magazine - “Coming Out & Walking Away. Why?”:
publicsquaremag.org/sexuality-family/coming-out-walking-away-why/
Dan Ellsworth in Public Square Magazine - “The Middle Ground is Disappearing”:
publicsquaremag.org/faith/the-middle-ground-is-disappearing/?fbclid=IwAR1Q8EnBpn94yUojovolMSlX8WmS1IIEOYcROIrCwQQAwel7Ff7yd2nS4yY
Jeff Bennion in Public Square Magazine - “The Elder Holland I Know”:
publicsquaremag.org/dialogue/racial-healing/the-elder-holland-i-know/
Daniel Peterson in Meridian Magazine - “Elder Holland: What He Said Is Not What They Heard”
latterdaysaintmag.com/elder-holland-what-he-said-is-not-what-they-heard/?fbclid=IwAR0psvCtWw-wMWW2akmovYFymi0S-7ktmkFL2GUgTzORYhqxjn9ciHjlxmU
I am greatful that you have been there for your grandaughter. What an example of Christ like love.
I am concerned about why it is that you are leaving the church? These apostles we're never called to say things we like. They are called to preach repentance. They are meant to bring us to our knees. I have relatives that are gay and I still love them, but truth will never stop being truth just because we don't like what they say.
You loved God and Christ, and because people didn't like what Christ said he was killed. How is he any different than elder Holland. We really need to decide if we have a testimony of Christ teachings or not. Our very salvation depends on it. Realize that all things will be made right in the next life. Don't quit now, you are so close to the end.
Keep loving your grandaughter and please hang on. We need you too!!!
@@latterdaysaintsqa This is a Doctrinal Issue, for the Church cannot change the Doctrine on Marriage. So this is not like the priesthood ban
Thank you for your presentation on same-gender attraction. Very insightful and helpful for everyone struggling to understand the issue. However, you should probably add a disclaimer that this only addresses gender attractiveness, but not gender identity, something often over-looked by Church authorities in addressing the rest of the initialism of LGBTQ. I personally do not conflict or struggle with what the gospel teaches about gender identity (or same-sex attraction), but I do have friends that struggle with gender-identity and it is most often misconstrued with sexual orientation. There are members of the Church, both, who struggle with the shame of not being able to conform to traditional gender roles, and who don’t try to understand what that struggle is like.
Thank you for your comment. I lumped all of these challenges together as part of LGBTQ issues, feeling that the same principles of loving and inclusion still apply, but I didn’t address gender-identity specific issues so thank you for pointing out that those experience this face their own unique challenges which also deserve to be recognized and understood.