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I just hope this game doesn't end up being like Infinite where every area just felt like an arena to shoot enemies in as opposed to the first 2 games that had more exploration.
@@Sycophantichallenger The closest one for me thus far was Prey (2017). It still wasn't as good as System Shock 2, but definitely the closest of all the modern immersive sims I've played.
As a former employee who was recently laid off the team, it is so conflicting for me seeing the videos past few days. I still love the game, the people and the team.. but it is so disheartening to be let go after all those sleepless night and shepherding the whole environments art thing and then not see this come to fruition all the way to the end. very hard still, hope everyone get a chance to experience this amazing thing once it is (hopefully) finished
@@Sx-xy2zi nope... I was effectively the lead artist on the game for 2.5 years. When I brought up my displeasure for lack of promotion to production, I was let go
The "narrative Legos" just sounds like how narrative should work in RPG's as the standard. I'm reminded of Fallout New Vegas, where each faction reacts accordingly towards your actions whether it's helping them, hurting them, or helping their enemies, etc. the world/story should be shaped based on the players choices. That's what I want in every RPG
Don't buy into these marketing hype words they're using. This is a procedurally generated roguelite. Nothing at all like New Vegas. At best the story will be a decent background drop while we rinse and repeat the same areas over and over again after every death.
The one time I used Twitter was to congratulate Ken Levine on how amazing Bioshock Infinite was around the time of release in 2013. He replied to me shortly after thanking me for the kind comment and while small, that has really stuck with me. He didn't need to reply, it was a rhetorical statement and yet he took a moment for a fan. I've been anxiously awaiting his next game and it looks worth the wait, there aren't many creators that get to craft and perfect a project for so many years.
Having a combat sandbox that responds to the player's preferred playstyle is actually something we've seen done before and to great effect. MGSV had this exact system, referred to as 'enemy preparedness'. Faction soldiers and outposts would change their loadouts and equipment depending on how you played against them. Did a few missions at night? Enemies have torches. Did *a lot* of missions at night? Enemies have flares and NVGs. Maybe you like snipers and headshots? Enemies now have helmets. That game's sandbox reacted to your playstyle. If it was getting too annoying you could either switch playstyles or send your Mother Base soldiers on missions to destroy NVG or helmet caches. I'm hoping this game manages to mimic that system without it getting to a point where the player is completely and permanently locked out of their preferred playstyle because enemies systematically counter them with no way to circumvent their 'preparedness.'
I haven’t listened to the podcast so iI’m not sure if it was talked about there, but I wanted to bring up an interesting fact I haven’t seen a lot of people talk about. When Bioshock was originally being made the plan was to have it set in a type of spaceship. The idea was they wanted to have a setting where the player couldn’t logically just go “fuck this, I’m leaving.” Because in a world like Rapture any sane person would see their first Splicer would do just that and Ken wanted to have a reason why the player couldn’t do that. The first pitched idea was a spaceship since you can’t just, leave it. And apparently the game got decently far along with that idea before they changed it to the underwater city we know today. I imagine a lot of ideas that were brainstormed for that original space Bioshock were used for this game and why he originally decided to have this game be set there.
Highly anticipating Judas and truly hope they knock it out the park. That said, I remember one of the reasons Ken wanted to create this game was because of Bioshock Infinite and all the conversation around used games eating into sales of 'one-and-done games,' and how to protect sales etc. He mentioned something about trying to create a single player, narrative-driven game that could be highly replayable, thus keeping the player engaged for multiple play-throughs and essentially not trading the game or selling it on. I always thought he had fallen down a rabbit hole given his experience with Infinite, and that in reality it was never an issue. The issue was with a ballooning budget from mismanagement, thus requiring huge sales to make the game profitable. And that remains a huge problem today unfortunately. But as we stand right now, I am begging for a return to short, highly curated 'one-and-done' games in the mould of Bioshock, Uncharted etc. And here's the thing: I replayed those games loads of times because they were simply that good.
I love Prey (2017). And sure, there’s some similarities to Bioshock. But Prey relies on its immersive sim elements to let you find many different solutions to progress. I don’t think that’s what we’re going to get with Judas. I think the game is going to give you the choice of where you want to go and react accordingly when it comes to how that affects the narrative. But I don’t think we’re going to see things like “hey, I need to get into that room. I could find the passcode somewhere to open the door. Or I could make some makeshift stairs with my gloo gun to get to the opening on the top. Or I can turn into a coffee cup and squeeze through a small opening.”
It's weird that everyone keeps saying pseudo procedural generation. It sounds identical to normal procedural generation. A procedure is run that generates a level out of templates, just like Spelunky. It doesn't make it less procedural just because it isn't Minecraft.
This gets at the difference between the meaning of a word and the definition of a word being different things. When someone says procedural generation, games like Minecraft and No Man's Sky come to mind. That isn't what this is, so it makes sense to differentiate the wording to not confuse people. 🤷♂
If you want to see an older example of it for level layout/generation, go play Warframe. This seems like it's going to try and be more robust/varied, but the same idea is there. Works pretty well.
Thanks a lot for taking the time to produce this helpful additional "recap" video, this wasn’t expected but it is indeed very helpful for us old… I mean, busy people.
I still find it very bizarre...ken closes up the studio to concentrate on smaller scale games and yet goes back to the bioshock style well and even stating its a bigger gamer then he has done in the past
It’s pretty clear that statement was more a tongue in cheek statement about wanting to separate himself from corporate control. If there’s one thing Ken hates it’s having higher ups to hassle him regarding his vision. Moving away from “big” developers to do “small” stuff, here meaning independent.
As someone who truly loved the bioshock series you had me at bioshock in space and this video just makes it more enticing. When you say resources are limited and I hope this is not atomic heart style of resources. That game was truly a chore when it could have been so much more
Hearing about Judas' take on Narrative Lego reminds me of an old game called Sacrifice... While Judas is likely a lot more seamless and reactive due to being able to push current tech, it does make me think of how Sacrifice had many different permutations of possible "routes" based off of player's decisions of when they chose to support different gods.
Before I get too far in I want to say you guys did a fantastic job with Ken in the interview. I really feel like you guys had a great discussion about what we're getting here with Judas.
Will there be any effort to address how such relationship/morality systems tend to incentivize the "all-in" route, and arguably punish switching directions mid-game?
Im sold! I love the appeal if it being quite replayable as well, especially with the difference in options, sides, and how it might change depending on how often you fail
The idea of countering what the player is using is very dangerous as a design choice. If the player likes to stealth and it is heavly investing onto stealth, the game activly countering that can be very frustrating. Nothing is more frustrating when your build just "Doesn't work" and it is not because of your build but because the game chose to throw a ton of imunities into the enemies.
Or less pessimistically it can be seen as a challenge. If you have played the game before and know about some in game hard counters you will be more thoughtful in a build that you develop over the course of a run. You'll be aware that while it can be incredibly powerful to hone in on a very specific build, the opportunity for a hard counter exists. This allows the player to either commit hard to the build and be OK if that hard counter shows up, or build in some contingency plans in case that does happen while sacrificing some strength/utility of the core build kit. Also idk if you've ever played a roguelite where you've encountered a hard counter to your build but still won anyways - that feeling is near God hood. Its very much a "you have no power here" situation.
BioShock is my favorite game of all-time, so I've been really looking forward to Judas. Even more excited now, really love what I'm seeing! Hope we also get an update on Cloud Chamber's upcoming BioShock game, very interested to see where they take it next. Thanks for the great video!
I try really hard, and am almost always really good about not getting hyped about future game releases.... But man, the second I saw the original trailer for this game, I was so excited. I really hope this game ends up delivering on what I believe it can, and lives up to the quality of the Bioshock series. As much as people like to complain about Infinite, if you look back on the game that we got compared to most games that we get today, that game was and still is a masterpiece. Please be good Judas.
Another thing you didn't mention that is a BIG deal is how lines of dialog are also treated like bricks. If you pay attention during some cutscenes in the interview you can tell that characters occasionally talk over each other. I feel bad for the narrative designer and programmer who has to build a system to make this stuff make some sense in the end. But they did take 10 years of RnD to make this thing work, so who knows.
I'm pretty concerned about the dialog. Conversation doesn't really go together like Lego. Statements interact with each other in terms of cadence and intensity. I hope we don't get an uncanny valley effect with VO.
I trust Ken to deliver. Really looking forward to this one, and I like the addition of rogue like elements too. More excited for this than the "Bioshock 4" game that we have heard nothing about in six years.
This sounds legitimately innovative. So cool! Bioshock is my favorite game of all time and it's very very hard to not get overly hyped for Judas. This video doesn't help!
Reminder that he made a sci fi story in Bioshock Infinite using the multiple worlds theory because he thought it was cool, without knowing how any of it worked.
@@chrislee5268 You'll be surprised how many people will enjoy games that pretend to be deep, as long as they look cool lol. Unless youre a teenager/younger or were a teenager/younger when Bioshock and its sequels came out, its pretty easy to dismiss a lot of the stories for these Ken Levine games past the spectacle
@@chrislee5268Reminder that many worlds theory is unscientific made-up bullshit and it doesn't actually matter if someone changes how it works. It's like whining that time travel in a movie didn't work exactly how you wanted it to.
Even seeing a distilled version of the talk the other day opens up what a gem JUDAS is shaping up to be! Appreciate the summary; consider one Bioshock fan succinctly hyped!
Man BioShock and BioShock Infinite are among my all time favorite games, absolute classics. Judas looks so good, from the creative genius Ken Levine, love how the game has similar vibes to BioShock, excited big time.
Two minutes in and thank you for saying Bioshock in space is way more accurate than System Shock. Its been so annoying to see the same joke online ignoring the differences between not only the game design but the public perception of those games to the public. Bioshock is widely popular...system shock is not.
Glad to get some solid info on what this game is about. Looks ambitious and exciting. Keeping hype in check, as usual. But this is definitely on my radar.
honestly, it looks pretty cool and refreshingly 'honest' about what it is - not claiming these equally insane and inane big numbers regarding map size etc, nor trying to make us feel that all the over animated time they wasted on shrinking horse testicles was good actually. Bioshock 1 was pretty good, 2 was brilliant and whilst 3 popped off for most I didn't care for it - it went too far in the action shooter / turn your brain off direction. This looks really system based which I love, and tbh - the combat, deliberate choices and tactical approach DOES remind me of system shock lol, which is a good thing. Will keep an eye on it for sure :)
@@ModestPavement I mean, 2 does some things better than 1 for sure. 1 is the one most remembered because of the subversive narrative (which wasnt a popular thing to do in AAA FPS games nearly 20 years ago) and the pure shock (hehe) of seeing Rapture and how atmospheric it was compared to games for its time.
@@PantsaBear it's been a long time since I've played it. I remember it being a downgrade in pretty much every facet so I'm genuinely curious what things you think were better cause you could be right and I'm just not remembering well lol.
@@gaiusfulmen really? Interesting. I remember feeling underpowered and weak playing as a big daddy. Immersion breaking but hey could be wrong. It's been a long time lol
Man, I just got a sit-stand desk. Really so much better for my back. Ken Levine made another Bioshock game, but in space. I've liked all the Bioshock stuff, so I think I'll enjoy exploring his story. I'm not sure that messing with the story myself will improve the experience, but it is something only a video game could do. Looking forward to this one.
I'm pretty sure it is like when Bethesda said Starfield is a new Ip and it ended up being Fallout with a space skin. Some studios just know the one thing. And if the one thing is not for me, i'm not gonna buy it.
This looks interesting ngl. I have to give credit to ken though he definietly has that artsy touch that grabs your attention just enough that isn't found anywhere else in the industry.
I hope they keep the graphics like this and avoid sacrificing smooth, fun gameplay in the name of (inevitably) soon-to-be-aged graphics. Gameplay, art and music over DF-pandering graphics any day of the week!
So it's Bioshock in space, with some rouge-lite elements and procedural generation Also I just love the cooperate talk of "Narrative Lego": We do the stuff everyone does when generating levels but we gave it a new name to appear smart and sophisticated
Thank you! I wish I'd read your comment before posting. I watched that video and all I could think was, "why are they talking about all of this stuff like it's new?" I mean, I get it, marketing, but part of me kind of hopes to see something new. Also, big Bioshock fan, but if you like those games, anything made by Arkane (except that vampire game) will rock your socks off. The amount of player expression and narrative choice in missions (if not so much in the overall story) is literally what Judas is about without the pretentious marketing. HIGHLY recommend Prey or Dishonored 2 to anyone who hasn't played them.
@@azeremen12 I think it's fundamental missunderstanding on your part of what this game is doing. It's the combined effect. I'm sorry, but this doesn't sound like Fallout New Vegas at all. For one the reactions are not made with a CRPG frame of work. Also while I like Arkane I think they are a bit overrated and have fallen deeply into decline in most of their recent output.
@WealdWold It's not just that. it's the combined effects and it's implementation into a standard game flow not a crpg one. I don't think you know what rebrand is. If you really want to argue most things probably have connections to other things.
It really is nice to see that there is at least one game from my childhood that is growing and progressing in a positive direction. I need to go back and re-experience bio shock
Lmfao dude imagine doing a mission in a grand theft auto game and going to the Next person and them acting like crybabies because you did a mission for someone else. It's literally dumb as hell.
@@JB2FROSTY you're trolling right? are you seriously upset by the fact that rival factions wont want to work with you because you helped their direct adversary?
I personally wouldn't qualify any of the BioShock games as imsims. They're pretty linear and there's little variety to problem solving beyond what gun or magic spell to defeat your enemies with.
Can't wait to see how this will, undoubtedly, tie-in with the other Bioshock games. Considering we never officially got a third game from Ken, this seems like the perfect follow-up. Very excited for this!
The art design and look of the game is already top notch. I can't wait to see how the rest of it turns out but I've always at least enjoyed the Bioshock series to some degree.
One of my favorite quotes is "Critics are people who watch a battle from a high place, then come down and shootbthe survivors." Much of this comments section is reminding me of that. 10 years of hard work distilled into something its not, by people who dont know what they are talking about.
I watched/listened to the longer video. To me this feels like A Bioshock that has taken a lot of hints from death loop. I am all for it, unlesss they eff it up with non sensical monetisation this should be a fun time. Peace
@@nexeosWe tend to call those roguelite. And to be fair, in the previous video, that's what they called this game. I got the sense "roguelike" was more of a slip of the tongue.
@@michaelm1053why? meta-progression is a standard in roguelikes. no reason to use two names for the same genre anymore, just forget about the word roguelite
The problem with this game is that 2 of the 3 possible choices are stupid evil. One is stupid neutral evil, and the other is stupid lawful evil. Murderizing everyone is just plain evil, full stop. Digitizing everyone permanently without their consent is evil and there's no guarantees as the one who will be more or less controlling the process that she won't insert plenty of hidden controls to benefit her goals.
It's not about picking the right character, it is about balancing all of three of their needs so you yourself can benefit and work towards your own goal.
I swear so many of these veteran game devs are either out of touch or more one track minded than we realized. Callisto Protocol: Made by the original Dead Space guy and literally just Dead Space with a worse coat of paint Disintegration: Made by original Halo guy and it's Halo if The Asylum started up a game division to capitalize off the success but 20 years after the fact The Outer Worlds: Made by the classic Fallout people and while this game is good for what it is, it's still practically a Fallout knockoff. There's way more that I can think of but the most recent example of this trend is Judas. It's literally BioShock under a new name and face My point is sometimes it can work out I guess but it's starting to get boring seeing all these devs resting on their laurels and going "hey remember this game? This new one I'm making is that but like, new and different dude I swear it's not just me capitalizing on nostalgia haha" Say what you want about Kojima and being pretentious, but at least Death Stranding wasn't just a carbon copy of Metal Gear Solid and acting like it was something new. It actually was something new.
Underrated comment, but correction: none of the people who worked on New Vegas also worked on the Outer Worlds. It's a reddit game made by diversity hires.
Ok, but I WANT more Bioshock. Just like I WANTED more Ubisoft formula games (until they just overbloated AC Valhalla to the point of meaninglessness). I LIKE knowing exactly what I'm getting and what kind of experience to expect. I really don't understand when gamers decided that was a bad thing
So it reminds me a lot more like the *first* Bioshock in space, which has a lot of things you're talking about with more scarce resources, and needing to think through encounters more to conserve them.
Thank you for this.. overview as the trailer was intriguing enough but without additional info i just kinda forgot this existed but now, it shot way up there, something to look forward to though the release is still far away the game looks great, as love me some Prey, Dishonored type of games and this plug the current void quite nicely when it releases. 😁
My only issue: I'm worried my investment in character and story will be disrupted by immediate needs. Like, maybe I'm all-in on Tom's mission, but suddenly I desperately need ammo or resources, which only Hope is offering me. At that point, I'm no longer making decisions based on what feels right, but rather whatever mechanically helps me better. There's absolutely NO way that feels gratifying as a player.
You're not wrong, but at the same time that is also compelling. Compromising your morals out of necessity and the need for survival, balancing the short term/immediate needs against your long term goals. As long as it ties into the themes and ideas presented, it could still work. Not saying it will turn out like that, just that there is potential for it to improve the games themes instead of hindering them.
Plus if the game mechanically adapts to what you're good at, all you're doing is punishing players for learning the mechanics of their preferred playstyle
@@genlando327plays2 kinda weird to call smart enemy AI a “punishment”. Can’t tell you how many games have brain dead sponges cemented to the ground for enemies.
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Your podcast is very bad bro
I just hope this game doesn't end up being like Infinite where every area just felt like an arena to shoot enemies in as opposed to the first 2 games that had more exploration.
Guys, what happened to the REVIEWS??? Lately we're not getting any from you. Certainly not for the games we actually care for.
@@Sycophantichallenger The closest one for me thus far was Prey (2017). It still wasn't as good as System Shock 2, but definitely the closest of all the modern immersive sims I've played.
Well makes sense it might be different given its not constrained to that generation of console.@@oBCHANo
Theres a lighthouse somewhere in this game, i just know it
There is always a lighthouse, there's always a man, there's always a city.
@@RandalReidin a meta sense it sorta describes all the games that followed in bioshock's foot steps in a way i never understood until now.
In space, It’s called a star.
If there isn’t this game is garbage! 0/10
@@KnowThatIDontKnowYouactually we can be more detailed then that: it be a Pulsar, sometimes called "'cosmic lighthouses'".
For the record, I would be PERFECTLY fine with a new game being just Bioshock in space. That sounds amazing
I wouldn't be. We have had one "Elder Scroll in space" game and we all how that turned out.
Then System Shock and / or PREY is your friend!
Prey 2017 is your closest bet. You even start off with a wrench.
Damn well agree with ya
@@yomamasohot6411bruh bethesda is ass and that engine is ass. smoof bron comment. enjoy not playing this game
As a former employee who was recently laid off the team, it is so conflicting for me seeing the videos past few days. I still love the game, the people and the team.. but it is so disheartening to be let go after all those sleepless night and shepherding the whole environments art thing and then not see this come to fruition all the way to the end.
very hard
still, hope everyone get a chance to experience this amazing thing once it is (hopefully) finished
Why were you let go? Freelance?
That can't be easy, it's rough in this industry. I'm sure your work was pivotal, I hope you can find closure in whatever you do next!
@@Sx-xy2zi nope... I was effectively the lead artist on the game for 2.5 years. When I brought up my displeasure for lack of promotion to production, I was let go
@@shorafarahaniNah fam dont lie, you banged the secretary right??
@@shorafarahaniHave you got an ArtStation or smth to check out your work?
The "narrative Legos" just sounds like how narrative should work in RPG's as the standard. I'm reminded of Fallout New Vegas, where each faction reacts accordingly towards your actions whether it's helping them, hurting them, or helping their enemies, etc. the world/story should be shaped based on the players choices. That's what I want in every RPG
Don't buy into these marketing hype words they're using. This is a procedurally generated roguelite. Nothing at all like New Vegas. At best the story will be a decent background drop while we rinse and repeat the same areas over and over again after every death.
Ken's the type of dude to keep reinventing the wheel and call it something else.
Take same product and sell it as this new hot item.
FONV was very binary in these cause/effects, I think Levine and team are trying something a little more complex.
It's a shame the game is w@ke. XD
The one time I used Twitter was to congratulate Ken Levine on how amazing Bioshock Infinite was around the time of release in 2013. He replied to me shortly after thanking me for the kind comment and while small, that has really stuck with me. He didn't need to reply, it was a rhetorical statement and yet he took a moment for a fan. I've been anxiously awaiting his next game and it looks worth the wait, there aren't many creators that get to craft and perfect a project for so many years.
Having a combat sandbox that responds to the player's preferred playstyle is actually something we've seen done before and to great effect. MGSV had this exact system, referred to as 'enemy preparedness'. Faction soldiers and outposts would change their loadouts and equipment depending on how you played against them.
Did a few missions at night? Enemies have torches. Did *a lot* of missions at night? Enemies have flares and NVGs. Maybe you like snipers and headshots? Enemies now have helmets. That game's sandbox reacted to your playstyle. If it was getting too annoying you could either switch playstyles or send your Mother Base soldiers on missions to destroy NVG or helmet caches.
I'm hoping this game manages to mimic that system without it getting to a point where the player is completely and permanently locked out of their preferred playstyle because enemies systematically counter them with no way to circumvent their 'preparedness.'
Completely agree that this could be amazing but there are absolutely many ways it could go wrong.
The utter fucking chaos and weirdness of this game is what makes it so special to me. I can’t wait to play this
It's a shame the game is w@ke. lol
I haven’t listened to the podcast so iI’m not sure if it was talked about there, but I wanted to bring up an interesting fact I haven’t seen a lot of people talk about. When Bioshock was originally being made the plan was to have it set in a type of spaceship. The idea was they wanted to have a setting where the player couldn’t logically just go “fuck this, I’m leaving.” Because in a world like Rapture any sane person would see their first Splicer would do just that and Ken wanted to have a reason why the player couldn’t do that. The first pitched idea was a spaceship since you can’t just, leave it. And apparently the game got decently far along with that idea before they changed it to the underwater city we know today. I imagine a lot of ideas that were brainstormed for that original space Bioshock were used for this game and why he originally decided to have this game be set there.
Highly anticipating Judas and truly hope they knock it out the park.
That said, I remember one of the reasons Ken wanted to create this game was because of Bioshock Infinite and all the conversation around used games eating into sales of 'one-and-done games,' and how to protect sales etc. He mentioned something about trying to create a single player, narrative-driven game that could be highly replayable, thus keeping the player engaged for multiple play-throughs and essentially not trading the game or selling it on.
I always thought he had fallen down a rabbit hole given his experience with Infinite, and that in reality it was never an issue. The issue was with a ballooning budget from mismanagement, thus requiring huge sales to make the game profitable. And that remains a huge problem today unfortunately.
But as we stand right now, I am begging for a return to short, highly curated 'one-and-done' games in the mould of Bioshock, Uncharted etc. And here's the thing: I replayed those games loads of times because they were simply that good.
10:35 similar to MGS if you kill enemy with head shots they start wearing Helmets, if you kill them in night they start having night vision ect
This is where good, becomes great.
"BioShock in space" - Prey?
i would have thought prey would be closer to system shock as opposed to bioshock
Prey is amazing
I love Prey (2017). And sure, there’s some similarities to Bioshock. But Prey relies on its immersive sim elements to let you find many different solutions to progress. I don’t think that’s what we’re going to get with Judas. I think the game is going to give you the choice of where you want to go and react accordingly when it comes to how that affects the narrative. But I don’t think we’re going to see things like “hey, I need to get into that room. I could find the passcode somewhere to open the door. Or I could make some makeshift stairs with my gloo gun to get to the opening on the top. Or I can turn into a coffee cup and squeeze through a small opening.”
System Shock.
Bioshock players are braindead.
It's weird that everyone keeps saying pseudo procedural generation. It sounds identical to normal procedural generation. A procedure is run that generates a level out of templates, just like Spelunky. It doesn't make it less procedural just because it isn't Minecraft.
pseudo means that only some parts are generated proceduraly. Nothing more, nothing less...
@@thierryfaquet7405 "Semi" would be a more appropriate term, though. "Pseudo" means fake or imitation.
@@thierryfaquet7405But once again, that's how it always works. Even Minecraft has pre-made blocks that it's placing en masse.
@@polygonDustYeah semiprocedural is a much better description.
This gets at the difference between the meaning of a word and the definition of a word being different things. When someone says procedural generation, games like Minecraft and No Man's Sky come to mind. That isn't what this is, so it makes sense to differentiate the wording to not confuse people. 🤷♂
This told nothing to me back when they released the reveal trailer, but seeing all of these elements come up now?? You got me interested.
The goal of making the procedural gen not noticeable is awesome
If you want to see an older example of it for level layout/generation, go play Warframe. This seems like it's going to try and be more robust/varied, but the same idea is there. Works pretty well.
I'll take my guess now. The twist is that the world never really ended on Earth
Thanks a lot for taking the time to produce this helpful additional "recap" video, this wasn’t expected but it is indeed very helpful for us old… I mean, busy people.
I look forward to your videos the most. Thanks.
As he dances around the concept of the liminal area and its connection to narrative I feel like he was contractually prevented from mentioning Hades.
Ok ok ok ...
You can't "throw" a thumbs down. It'll be a thumbs up half the time...
👍👎👍👎👍👎👍
Don't worry everyone, I'm also testing it out myself before I respond to this comment.
OP is correct.
Though if we could throw thumbs down, rather than only seeing thumbs up like right now, maybe things would be a bit better.
if you put butter on the bottom of the thumbs down, it should always land thumbs down though right
they are also red, thumbs up would be green I assume
i have a feeling this will be a relatively short game with (hopefully) a lot of replayability. Great video! Thanks for for the upload!
In the interviews they suggested the game will be longer than infinite
I still find it very bizarre...ken closes up the studio to concentrate on smaller scale games and yet goes back to the bioshock style well and even stating its a bigger gamer then he has done in the past
It’s pretty clear that statement was more a tongue in cheek statement about wanting to separate himself from corporate control. If there’s one thing Ken hates it’s having higher ups to hassle him regarding his vision. Moving away from “big” developers to do “small” stuff, here meaning independent.
Then he calls game Judas
@@RS-ry4lpisn't his new studio still owned by 2K?
Watch the interview, he literally talks about this
Ken Levine is not actually as creative or smart as he really wants people to think he is.
As someone who truly loved the bioshock series you had me at bioshock in space and this video just makes it more enticing. When you say resources are limited and I hope this is not atomic heart style of resources. That game was truly a chore when it could have been so much more
I enjoy Ken Levine talking about bioshock in the old behind the scenes footage for both 1 and 2. He knows what he wants from these titles.
Feels like everyone who loved prey mooncrash and wanted more of that will be happy with what judas is trying to setup.
I was sold at BioShock in space but I am even more sold at Prey Mooncrash in space.
That was already in space though.
@@chrislee5268 That was the joke, yes.
Hearing about Judas' take on Narrative Lego reminds me of an old game called Sacrifice...
While Judas is likely a lot more seamless and reactive due to being able to push current tech, it does make me think of how Sacrifice had many different permutations of possible "routes" based off of player's decisions of when they chose to support different gods.
Hearing you talk about games is never a waste of time for me 😊
Before I get too far in I want to say you guys did a fantastic job with Ken in the interview.
I really feel like you guys had a great discussion about what we're getting here with Judas.
Will there be any effort to address how such relationship/morality systems tend to incentivize the "all-in" route, and arguably punish switching directions mid-game?
This
i have this hunch that the game is going to lean toward Nefertiti being the 'good' route.
I think his mindset is “all in and play it multiple times in different ways” so literally just preferences
@@Hugsloth If that's the case, why should we care? Does it matter?
@@HugslothAnd why is that?
The interview was wonderfully insightful into just how unique this game is, and I can't wait for it to come out.
I’m stoked! I could play more Bioshock forever!
Can't Wait.
God this game looks and sounds incredible. I cannot wait to see it fully finished.
Im sold! I love the appeal if it being quite replayable as well, especially with the difference in options, sides, and how it might change depending on how often you fail
The idea of countering what the player is using is very dangerous as a design choice. If the player likes to stealth and it is heavly investing onto stealth, the game activly countering that can be very frustrating. Nothing is more frustrating when your build just "Doesn't work" and it is not because of your build but because the game chose to throw a ton of imunities into the enemies.
yeah that was my first thought as well, this could easily backfire.
Maybe a counter mechanic to reset these immunity’s, if it’s a immersive sim you shouldn’t be locked out of your preferred play style
This was already done in phantom pain.
"We need more reactive enemies and worlds" Dev does something like that... "NO, no like THAT."
Or less pessimistically it can be seen as a challenge. If you have played the game before and know about some in game hard counters you will be more thoughtful in a build that you develop over the course of a run.
You'll be aware that while it can be incredibly powerful to hone in on a very specific build, the opportunity for a hard counter exists. This allows the player to either commit hard to the build and be OK if that hard counter shows up, or build in some contingency plans in case that does happen while sacrificing some strength/utility of the core build kit.
Also idk if you've ever played a roguelite where you've encountered a hard counter to your build but still won anyways - that feeling is near God hood. Its very much a "you have no power here" situation.
So its basically "I have no mouth yet. I must scream" mixed with BioShock and Prey? Ok im sold
3:14 A giant "Robo-Doggy" that you can use as a tank? *Shut up and take my money*!
BioShock is my favorite game of all-time, so I've been really looking forward to Judas. Even more excited now, really love what I'm seeing! Hope we also get an update on Cloud Chamber's upcoming BioShock game, very interested to see where they take it next. Thanks for the great video!
Would You Kindly, Open The Pod Bay Doors.
I try really hard, and am almost always really good about not getting hyped about future game releases.... But man, the second I saw the original trailer for this game, I was so excited. I really hope this game ends up delivering on what I believe it can, and lives up to the quality of the Bioshock series. As much as people like to complain about Infinite, if you look back on the game that we got compared to most games that we get today, that game was and still is a masterpiece. Please be good Judas.
This looks amazing.
This genuinely looks so good, I can't wait to see how it progresses over the years
"procedurally generated roguelite shooter"... aaaaaand dropped!
I’ve already watched the FPS podcast but I’ve been waiting for Judas for ten years, i can’t wait. Thanks for the coverage Skillup
Another thing you didn't mention that is a BIG deal is how lines of dialog are also treated like bricks. If you pay attention during some cutscenes in the interview you can tell that characters occasionally talk over each other.
I feel bad for the narrative designer and programmer who has to build a system to make this stuff make some sense in the end. But they did take 10 years of RnD to make this thing work, so who knows.
I'm pretty concerned about the dialog. Conversation doesn't really go together like Lego. Statements interact with each other in terms of cadence and intensity. I hope we don't get an uncanny valley effect with VO.
I trust Ken to deliver. Really looking forward to this one, and I like the addition of rogue like elements too. More excited for this than the "Bioshock 4" game that we have heard nothing about in six years.
I know Levine said they were largely working with unknowns, but isn't Tom voiced by Troy Baker?
Two things can be true at once
Largely as in not 100%? In that case its fair that at least some VAs are big names
constants and variables....
Voice/Acting, animation and design already have me hooked. This is going to be unique, no matter what.
Great break down on your hands on experience mate, got me interested in a lot of ways i wasn't expecting 👍
This sounds legitimately innovative. So cool! Bioshock is my favorite game of all time and it's very very hard to not get overly hyped for Judas. This video doesn't help!
There are some creatives that just have my complete trust and support when it comes to projects they’re working on. Ken Levine is one of those people.
Reminder that he made a sci fi story in Bioshock Infinite using the multiple worlds theory because he thought it was cool, without knowing how any of it worked.
@@chrislee5268 You'll be surprised how many people will enjoy games that pretend to be deep, as long as they look cool lol. Unless youre a teenager/younger or were a teenager/younger when Bioshock and its sequels came out, its pretty easy to dismiss a lot of the stories for these Ken Levine games past the spectacle
@@chrislee5268Reminder that many worlds theory is unscientific made-up bullshit and it doesn't actually matter if someone changes how it works. It's like whining that time travel in a movie didn't work exactly how you wanted it to.
Even seeing a distilled version of the talk the other day opens up what a gem JUDAS is shaping up to be!
Appreciate the summary; consider one Bioshock fan succinctly hyped!
I think a lot of people would be quite happy with a Bioshock in space
System Shock and Prey then?
Man BioShock and BioShock Infinite are among my all time favorite games, absolute classics. Judas looks so good, from the creative genius Ken Levine, love how the game has similar vibes to BioShock, excited big time.
Prey was already Bioshock in space, and it rocked. Too bad the title was so lame and terrible for SEO.
This sound very good, can't wait!
Two minutes in and thank you for saying Bioshock in space is way more accurate than System Shock. Its been so annoying to see the same joke online ignoring the differences between not only the game design but the public perception of those games to the public. Bioshock is widely popular...system shock is not.
And System Shock is a much better game despite being less popular. It's a joke because of how dumbed down and Hollywood the Bioshock series is.
Glad to get some solid info on what this game is about. Looks ambitious and exciting.
Keeping hype in check, as usual. But this is definitely on my radar.
honestly, it looks pretty cool and refreshingly 'honest' about what it is - not claiming these equally insane and inane big numbers regarding map size etc, nor trying to make us feel that all the over animated time they wasted on shrinking horse testicles was good actually. Bioshock 1 was pretty good, 2 was brilliant and whilst 3 popped off for most I didn't care for it - it went too far in the action shooter / turn your brain off direction. This looks really system based which I love, and tbh - the combat, deliberate choices and tactical approach DOES remind me of system shock lol, which is a good thing. Will keep an eye on it for sure :)
You like BioShock 2 better than 1. Whaaat? Lol.
@@ModestPavement I mean, 2 does some things better than 1 for sure. 1 is the one most remembered because of the subversive narrative (which wasnt a popular thing to do in AAA FPS games nearly 20 years ago) and the pure shock (hehe) of seeing Rapture and how atmospheric it was compared to games for its time.
2 has better combat I feel @@ModestPavement
@@PantsaBear it's been a long time since I've played it. I remember it being a downgrade in pretty much every facet so I'm genuinely curious what things you think were better cause you could be right and I'm just not remembering well lol.
@@gaiusfulmen really? Interesting. I remember feeling underpowered and weak playing as a big daddy. Immersion breaking but hey could be wrong. It's been a long time lol
The premise of the story is so good. I havent been this hype for a game since cyberpunk. The animation alone is filled with so much character.
“System shock is just bio shock in space”
I think you misspelled Prey?
I like how this is animated!
Seeing a lot of Hades DNA here. Swap out the gods of hades with the big three of Judas, and you see what I mean. Very cool. Great video!
Man, I just got a sit-stand desk. Really so much better for my back.
Ken Levine made another Bioshock game, but in space.
I've liked all the Bioshock stuff, so I think I'll enjoy exploring his story. I'm not sure that messing with the story myself will improve the experience, but it is something only a video game could do.
Looking forward to this one.
I'm pretty sure it is like when Bethesda said Starfield is a new Ip and it ended up being Fallout with a space skin.
Some studios just know the one thing. And if the one thing is not for me, i'm not gonna buy it.
This looks interesting ngl. I have to give credit to ken though he definietly has that artsy touch that grabs your attention just enough that isn't found anywhere else in the industry.
I hope they keep the graphics like this and avoid sacrificing smooth, fun gameplay in the name of (inevitably) soon-to-be-aged graphics. Gameplay, art and music over DF-pandering graphics any day of the week!
A lot of this sounds like Prey: Mooncrash. And that's amazing.
Never pre-order, never buy day 1, and never purchase microtransactions.
cool. different subject
No he's definitely right
I mean, this is as applicable a place as any to counter hype@@84jesterx
Except this game. Take my money!!!!!😂😂😂
@@yourvoicecanbeat famous last words before dissapointment
Yes, I remember seeing that GDC narrative LEGO talk! I’m so excited to see the implementation of it after all this time.
So it's Bioshock in space, with some rouge-lite elements and procedural generation
Also I just love the cooperate talk of "Narrative Lego": We do the stuff everyone does when generating levels but we gave it a new name to appear smart and sophisticated
So PREY Mooncrash but at a bigger scale?
There's a very good summary of Narrative Lego in this video, and it's quite clear that it's not referring to the level generation.
Thank you for the review! Glad you're liking my crazy posters :D
Looks cool 👍🏻 This and Clockwork Revolution look like the non-Bioshock Bioshock games we need.
7:07 this is the FNV reputation system. Why is the games industry gaslighting its self and acting like this doesnt already exist
I don't think you understand what gaslighting means
The gaming industry is stupid.
Thank you! I wish I'd read your comment before posting. I watched that video and all I could think was, "why are they talking about all of this stuff like it's new?" I mean, I get it, marketing, but part of me kind of hopes to see something new. Also, big Bioshock fan, but if you like those games, anything made by Arkane (except that vampire game) will rock your socks off. The amount of player expression and narrative choice in missions (if not so much in the overall story) is literally what Judas is about without the pretentious marketing. HIGHLY recommend Prey or Dishonored 2 to anyone who hasn't played them.
@@azeremen12 I think it's fundamental missunderstanding on your part of what this game is doing. It's the combined effect. I'm sorry, but this doesn't sound like Fallout New Vegas at all. For one the reactions are not made with a CRPG frame of work.
Also while I like Arkane I think they are a bit overrated and have fallen deeply into decline in most of their recent output.
@WealdWold It's not just that. it's the combined effects and it's implementation into a standard game flow not a crpg one. I don't think you know what rebrand is. If you really want to argue most things probably have connections to other things.
It really is nice to see that there is at least one game from my childhood that is growing and progressing in a positive direction. I need to go back and re-experience bio shock
I am helping Hope simply because of her character design.
I like what this game is shaping out to be.
Lmfao dude imagine doing a mission in a grand theft auto game and going to the Next person and them acting like crybabies because you did a mission for someone else. It's literally dumb as hell.
Also you're putting your hope in a girl just because of her looks? Lmao what a simp
@@JB2FROSTY you're trolling right? are you seriously upset by the fact that rival factions wont want to work with you because you helped their direct adversary?
@@JB2FROSTY you have never played a video game before lmao. this system is present in SO MANY different games.
That art style is STUNNING
Ken Levine is keeping the immersive sim genre alive, that alone is worth celebrating.
Hope the game is a banger and an inspiration for other studios.
I personally wouldn't qualify any of the BioShock games as imsims. They're pretty linear and there's little variety to problem solving beyond what gun or magic spell to defeat your enemies with.
Him and Arkane. Although after Redfail it seems the imsim may be primarily relegated to the indie sector. Which is just about great if you ask me
Can't wait to see how this will, undoubtedly, tie-in with the other Bioshock games. Considering we never officially got a third game from Ken, this seems like the perfect follow-up. Very excited for this!
So excited for this:)
The art design and look of the game is already top notch. I can't wait to see how the rest of it turns out but I've always at least enjoyed the Bioshock series to some degree.
One of my favorite quotes is
"Critics are people who watch a battle from a high place, then come down and shootbthe survivors."
Much of this comments section is reminding me of that. 10 years of hard work distilled into something its not, by people who dont know what they are talking about.
I watched/listened to the longer video. To me this feels like A Bioshock that has taken a lot of hints from death loop. I am all for it, unlesss they eff it up with non sensical monetisation this should be a fun time.
Peace
"roguelike" and "meta-progression" in the same sentence makes baby Nethack cry :(
That's been the standard for years now though?
@@nexeosWe tend to call those roguelite. And to be fair, in the previous video, that's what they called this game. I got the sense "roguelike" was more of a slip of the tongue.
Im also not a fan of meta progression buffs, but it makes the game more approachable so its nos urprise its in this game.
Rougelike and rougelite are surly easily mis matched in the moment
@@michaelm1053why? meta-progression is a standard in roguelikes. no reason to use two names for the same genre anymore, just forget about the word roguelite
That’s my desk!!! 💪
Not sure I’m a fan of the idea of procedural generation in a bioshock like game
This game is going to be amazing i can't wait 🎉
The problem with this game is that 2 of the 3 possible choices are stupid evil. One is stupid neutral evil, and the other is stupid lawful evil. Murderizing everyone is just plain evil, full stop. Digitizing everyone permanently without their consent is evil and there's no guarantees as the one who will be more or less controlling the process that she won't insert plenty of hidden controls to benefit her goals.
The eggs will always have complaints about the omelet, now matter how delicious it is
Morality doesn’t exist anymore in media, wonder who the writers are.
@@KevinLambertperfected ok, is he wrong? If so, how?
It's not about picking the right character, it is about balancing all of three of their needs so you yourself can benefit and work towards your own goal.
You're crying that this game is making you think critically And make difficult choices?
I'll wait for reviews, but it seems I will be picking this up at (or soon after) release.
Eh, poor man's Bioshock, which was poor man's System shock.
Didnt Levine say prior to announcement he wanted to do something different?
first I'm hearing of this, actually looks pretty amazing. art direction and animation work is phenomenal
I swear so many of these veteran game devs are either out of touch or more one track minded than we realized.
Callisto Protocol: Made by the original Dead Space guy and literally just Dead Space with a worse coat of paint
Disintegration: Made by original Halo guy and it's Halo if The Asylum started up a game division to capitalize off the success but 20 years after the fact
The Outer Worlds: Made by the classic Fallout people and while this game is good for what it is, it's still practically a Fallout knockoff.
There's way more that I can think of but the most recent example of this trend is Judas. It's literally BioShock under a new name and face
My point is sometimes it can work out I guess but it's starting to get boring seeing all these devs resting on their laurels and going "hey remember this game? This new one I'm making is that but like, new and different dude I swear it's not just me capitalizing on nostalgia haha"
Say what you want about Kojima and being pretentious, but at least Death Stranding wasn't just a carbon copy of Metal Gear Solid and acting like it was something new. It actually was something new.
Underrated comment, but correction: none of the people who worked on New Vegas also worked on the Outer Worlds. It's a reddit game made by diversity hires.
Ok, but I WANT more Bioshock. Just like I WANTED more Ubisoft formula games (until they just overbloated AC Valhalla to the point of meaninglessness). I LIKE knowing exactly what I'm getting and what kind of experience to expect. I really don't understand when gamers decided that was a bad thing
@@genlando327plays2 new stuff is always better
And now kojima is cooking a new tactical espionage game
Just don't get the game lmao
So it reminds me a lot more like the *first* Bioshock in space, which has a lot of things you're talking about with more scarce resources, and needing to think through encounters more to conserve them.
This REALLY looks just to be Bioshock in space.
Thank you for this.. overview as the trailer was intriguing enough but without additional info i just kinda forgot this existed but now, it shot way up there, something to look forward to though the release is still far away the game looks great, as love me some Prey, Dishonored type of games and this plug the current void quite nicely when it releases. 😁
10:30 I never got the logic of "if you prefer playstyle X, we'll make X harder." Why? So I have a worse time? So I can't play the way I want?
Put it on the easiest difficulty if you're so mad about them giving you any sort of challenge.
@@aolson1111 have a backbone and accept different opinions if you're so mad about it
This sounds absolutely incredible, I hope it lives up to what we're hearing here. Been too long since we had a Bioshock-esque game.
My only issue:
I'm worried my investment in character and story will be disrupted by immediate needs.
Like, maybe I'm all-in on Tom's mission, but suddenly I desperately need ammo or resources, which only Hope is offering me.
At that point, I'm no longer making decisions based on what feels right, but rather whatever mechanically helps me better. There's absolutely NO way that feels gratifying as a player.
You're not wrong, but at the same time that is also compelling. Compromising your morals out of necessity and the need for survival, balancing the short term/immediate needs against your long term goals. As long as it ties into the themes and ideas presented, it could still work.
Not saying it will turn out like that, just that there is potential for it to improve the games themes instead of hindering them.
I dunno, feels like most of life is like this
Plus if the game mechanically adapts to what you're good at, all you're doing is punishing players for learning the mechanics of their preferred playstyle
@@genlando327plays2 kinda weird to call smart enemy AI a “punishment”. Can’t tell you how many games have brain dead sponges cemented to the ground for enemies.
@@braxinIV kinda weird calling a system that actively tries to limit a players' preferred method of having fun anything OTHER than punishment
"Fuck the big three, it's just big me."
- Judas
Goes hard