Thanks for your feedback and passion Barry. We don’t have to agree on every point you made, but we want you to know we’re listening. It’s people like you who keep us on our toes and push us to maintain UA’s legacy of craftsmanship. We hope you stay tuned and continue offering your input and support. We won’t disappoint.
I left Avid and Pro Tools entirely because of their insane prices and lack of features that free from competitors and lack of care for their customers. I’ve been using Logic Pro and the Apollo series interfaces ever since, but recently I’ve been quite disappointed with Universal Audio’s pricing for upgrading their interfaces and even more outraged at the prices of their plugins, it just doesn’t make sense anymore and Barry you’re so right. I love Universal Audio I’ve made so much amazing music with their products and it’s change my life, I would really hate to see them go the path that Avid has gone, I really hope they find a way to make things make sense soon.
Heres the thing, I'm coming from a trained IT background, with CPUs getting faster every year, it no longer makes any sense to have non-native plugs. The best thing I did for my music making was building my own PC, a desktop i7 with 32GB of RAM. But you don't have to build your own, but try and avoid laptops, as laptop class CPUs are significantly slower than dssktop class ones. But a lot of all-in-one type desktops are using laptop class CPUs, so do your research and buy as fast a PC or Mac as you can afford!
I am so glad this video was made. I could not AGREE MORE. UAD used to be my favorite plugin company. But they started loosing me when I realized other companies just as good were charging far cheaper. And the nail in the coffin was their Piano and Moog plugins. UAD charges for one of these plugins what Arturia charges for all their instruments on sale. And what Spectrasonics charges for over 30 impeccably sampled keyboards. That’s when I realized UAD did not care about customers. They are hell bent on taking advantage of all of us.
I own the Apollo X4 and was considering buying the X8 if they offer the free Satellite bundle this holiday season. A friend of mine hired me to build him a hi-end/entry level home studio and after weeks of research I decided to build his setup around the Apogee Symphony Desktop Interface and a TLM103 Mic. After running his setup for a month it’s very difficult for me to justify going deeper into the UAD rabbit hole. My X4 will be used for my portable setup. I’m considering running with Apogee or Antelope for my main setup soon. Especially since I can’t bypass the preamps on the X4 I currently have and the ecosystem itself is ridiculously expensive overtime. Great Video!
Barry, Great Video! I am 55 years old and its taken until about 10 years ago for me to realize that no matter how much I spend on any technology device or software, it will eventually be obsolete. This type of thinking keeps me grounded when spending my hard earned money. I have a ton of obsolete stuff (M-Audio Lightbridge, old MOTU firewire interfaces, etc.). I realize there is some vintage gear that remain relevant, but not very much. Unless your producing for world-class artists, sometimes the difference between a $5,000 piece of hardware and it's $50 software equivalent is so minute, most people would never tell the difference when hearing a recording. Anyway, I think companies need to think about this when they try and charge astronomical prices for their stuff.
Barry!! You nailed that man! I've had my finger on the UAD trigger so many times in the last few years but they are just too expensive and almost every other plugin maker has upped their game substantially. On top of the fact you can buy WA outboard gear for almost the same price as UAD plugins! ~Awesome stuff! 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Saw you got the SSL UC1 how are you liking it so far? I'm trying to hold off for the $50 essential bundle deal (CS and BC plugins) if they do it again. Still kicking myself for missing out on that in Feb. and not ready to splurge on UC1 but it looks awesome. (edit) Wow perfect timing too I just watched your video on the SSL EQ $40 sale! Right on!
I 💯 % agree. Everything you mentioned is the reason why I sold my Apollo and switch to Burl/RME. I really felt mislead by the fancy marketing and being sucked into a sales funnel with UAD.
Excellent points, Barry. Especially NOW, w/ the cost of entry having increased by a good bit recently and over the last couple of years! Im on my 3rd Apollo. I originally had the Twin Duo USB (horrific experience when it came out on Windows which aided in my migration to Apple) which was replaced by the Twin Duo TB, and now currently the Apollo Twin Quad MKII. But recently, at just over 2 years old it had to be repaired by Sweetwater due to the failure of a 60 cent capacitor (C202) which the Tech readily mentioned was the most common issue they see! This wasn't a warranty repair mind you, so I had to come out of pocket a couple hundred bucks to repair a $1300 device purchased just a couple years prior! Now having said that, and despite it, I need more I/O. Now obviously I would love to stay within the UA ecosystem, so naturally I've looked into the X6 and X8. But with the prices being what they are now? And since I really just need more I/O not more DSP, it's forcing me really to look elsewhere sadly. It just doesn't make sense to spend $3100+tax for 8 more Ins/Outs and unneeded/outdated SHARC chips. As you mentioned, you can quite literally purchase a loaded M1 Mac Mini, and a Focusrite Clarett+ 8Pre, 1 year of Plugin alliance, and still have at least $500-$600 bucks left over to play with (not counting the PA voucher you'll get back) versus the cost of an X8! It just doesn't make sense any more. Or rather I should say.. *It's really no longer a sound decision*. 😉
Their products are ridiculously ridiculous. With all the money you spent already think about it, you could have bought a Moto interface with all the ins and outs you need, and a lunchbox with a few official pieces of REAL processors to put in it. 😂. I don't fall for Apple's BS either. I've been on a PC for ten years and I refuse to buy a Mac. They're overpriced as well. I've mixed industry projects on my PC and never had an issue with crashing because it's built right, and I send everything to an external hard drive anyway so that my computer stays fresh. I feel sorry for the people who try to "keep up with the Jones's". No thanks.
Mr. Its Trips I couldn't agree more. In this day and age most of the interfaces sound quality is not that big of a gap. at the end of the day I guess it just boils down to what people preferences are and workflow. I had my Clarett now for 5 years beatin it down on the regular with no issues (knock on wood). I would've love to purchased an Apollo but my money was funny and my change is strange. instead I was able to but a new M1 and still had loot leftover to by other essential things for the studio. Besides I'm able to record with my expensive Roland drums with foocusite or Motu where as I'm not because the Apollo do not have midi capability I am capable of recording real acoustic drums I just like having more options at the end of the day.
@@darrellroseborough7275 I feel it. I was cracking up at funny money strange change 😂 And despite my comment being 8 months ago, I was just revising this cause I still need more I/O to eventually route stuff to outboard. But kinda got my eye on this Cranborne which is a interface, summing mixer, monitor controller, and has 8 slots for 500 modules. I think it’s called a 500R8 but could be wrong. That thing looks lit tho! Don’t get me wrong. I love my UA plugins. They sound great. But I love my PA plugins and they’re WAY cheaper and just as good. And I wanna get out of the box more, not stay locked in it. So UA prob ain’t getting more of my bread. Apple will tho! 😂 and maybe cranborne!
Great video, Barry. I only bought into UAD solely for the fact that my pre-M1 macbook air couldn’t keep up with the CPU usage of using too many plugins. But like you said, with these new M1/M1X machines, that completely eliminates my need for relying on UAD’s DSP system
I’ve had UAD for over 10 years. I’ve spent thousands and thousands of dollars on their products. However, I haven’t given them a dime in nearly 6 years. I’m still using a handful of their plugins, but even the ones I’ve stood by for years are slowly getting replaced by the competition. Great video… this is the truth.
Doesn't that also kind of show you how good their products are? That you haven't had to chase technology? That the stuff is just good enough? I'm a bit confused as I'm looking to buy into this ecosystem to be honest. It's kind of like buying a Toyota. You spend a little more upfront, but then it just works. For a LONG time typically.
@@marcusvaldes To me personally, I think there are now enough quality tools out there that the gap between UA and everything else has shrunk quite a bit. I can easily record and mix songs without using UA at all, however sometimes I'll still use the few plugins that I'm comfortable with since I already have them. But as I mentioned, I'm using less and less UA as technology changes and the gap closes. I also think I've just become much better at my craft over the years and don't need the UA badge to justify my work or make me feel more 'pro'. I think UA makes a really good product, but I also think the whole ecosystem is painfully overpriced and overrated by many of their users. There's a lot of good gear out there. Once you start fiddling with all of it, you realize how little of it you really need in order to make good music.
@@BigTimmy11 I spent a fair amount of time after this video trying to figure out "OK, if not UAD Apollo, then what?" All roads keep leading me back to the Apollo. I mean which OTHER $1500 interface does the job? I mean that seriously. I'm not sure what else....
@@marcusvaldes I suppose it depends on what you're trying to do. You can get a used Lynx Aurora 16 for $800. You can get an Aurora 8 for even less. To my ears, the Lynx sounds noticeably better than an Apollo. Then you have the option of all kinds of outboard preamps. You're not tied down to anything. You can get some decent pres for cheap to get you rolling and then slowly upgrade them with more expensive stuff if you feel it's necessary. But that may not be something you're into.
I'm so glad I found your channel. I'm starting out my home studio after 35 years of playing live and making records over the years. I almost invested $4000 on all kinds of UAD equipment because I thought I had to have the best only to find out I could invest $650 in an Mac Mini M2 and a Focusrite rackmount 8 preamp input with talkback for $650 out the door. $1300 vs. $4000. when you said "Is the extra $2800 worth what your getting?" and I had to ask myself what makes sense? Picking up my new M2 tomorrow and Interface this weekend. Like that you say what you think.
I love my Apollo Twin, it was my upgrade on my entry level Komplete 6 starter interface and it was a fantastic level up. I’m at the point now where I’m looking at upgrading again to an 8/16 rack mounted unit and I find it really hard to justify putting more money into the UAD model in its current format. Hopefully they do have something planned for the future that includes a modernisation of their interface/dsp/plug-in offering.
UAD doesn't owe us anything... but they also have to be competitive. There are many, many great plugin makers. I bought the UAD Minimoog plug on special, yeah it was still quite expensive, but it's a very accurate and authentic instrument.
Wow, real talk. You are the truth, Barry! I made a purchase the other day on a Macbook Air M2 13.6 with 24GB of memory, 10 core GPU, and 2TB SSD @ $2700 and will probably bite the bullet with more mac purchases for my music needs, and still making purchases on the great outboard analog gear of all kinds, I have Avalon stuff, LA 610 mic pre, etc. I couldn't resist making a lower purchase on a great unit by warm, the Warm Audio WA-MPX 1-channel Tube Mic/Line/Instrument Preamp. I love that unit now; thanks for your passionate feeling about UAD. I've always felt they were over; price is why I purchased every one of (plugin alliance's excellent plugins).
I agree. I think Barry eluded to that in the first half about people that need processing (those who track full bands or 16 drum tracks at a time) and those who do not (the bedroom mixers who don't do a lot of tracking). I'm not a Logic user so I'm not sure how the M1 delivers on that at this time. I'll be upgrading my old I7 Mac mini when the second generation of M1 comes out, hopefully later this year.
This is exactly right. Latency for vocalists is always an issue. Tracking a band is one thing. Coming back with a 100 track project and laying down new vocals without monitoring latency is trickier. Instrumentalists can handle a lot more latency than vocalists and high track counts push buffers and samples up and can push RTL over 2-4ms where a seasoned vocalist will notice it and be irritated by it. It’s why pro studios still “favor” Avid HDX and Apollo UAD. M1 chips are awesome. Native plugins are awesome. But, DSP while tracking makes life a lot easier. Mixing can be totally native. Tracking is possible but harder in a professional environment. “One moment Ms. Halsey while I lower my buffers, freeze some tracks, and turn off my screen saver.”
Additionally, my Apollo x8 allowed me to eliminate a monitor controller and still run three sets of monitors with a simple button push between them. When I look at thunderbolt, converters, build quality, amount of IO, etc. I don’t really consider the x8 to be overpriced compared to the other interfaces out there and the hardware I don’t need like a monitor controller.
@@christopherbrown5225 if you’re nervous m1 can handle high track and plug-in count with low buffers… you could just bounce a mix, open a new project and have the vocalist sing over that in low latency mode? Can then import those tracks back into the original project for mixing.
Thank you Barry for your deeply reflected rant. And even though I am one of those who have only recently invested quite heavily in the UAD system, I totally agree with you on almost every aspect. I do still however that the quality of their highend (mkII) plugins are a tad infront of the competition, like Plugin Alliance. (I have good ears and decades of experience too.) BUT one thing for sure is, it won’t be for long anymore. The competition is closing in on UA at rapid speed. And PA’s aproach is so amazing on almost all levels. And regarding the aged Sharc processors, it’s just ridiculous. The thing is that I have a feeling that UA seems to care about their Legacy and unlike AVID actually also for their customers, so I expect that something is cocking. But you are right. We still have some serious signs of progress. And another Update of LUNA won’t cut it. For the same reasons there was a huge annoyment among their users, when they earlier this year launched the UAFX pedals. Not because they were not great, but because people were expecting UA to follow up on the list of ‘slank’ first. Such like, A DSP improvement or even better a Native solution. Legacy plugins that is in need of a MKII Update, and not to mention GUI/Retina updates. That process has taken ages and many important titles are still not there yet. So I’m not even talking about development of entirely new projects. Many UA users, I believe, will rather see improvement on the above than something fancy and new. Because of the very reason that they are professional, and you expect the tools you use day in and out, to be the same. To be the best they can be. And I believe you gotta be very ignorant as a developer not to see this. Especially in the light of rapid development and the competition. I hope that UA is aware of this, because like you I want them to succeed too.
Hey there Barry, thanks for this video. I’ve been looking to set my small home studio. I’ve had my eyes on an UA PCIe for months but I wasn’t sure if I should pull the trigger on that, until this video. Technology advanced so much in the last 6-7 years that I dont even believe the power computers are offering. Thank you!
i was considering the UAD X6 mainly because of the variable impedance that changes to mimic the hardware its emulating as far a preamps etc.. what would you recommend instead?
Honesty for $500 I got a Scarlett 18i20, and that thing is an absolute powerhouse, and with the money saved over buying a UA I can buy one or two nice hardware pre-amps and some phenomenal plug ins from Slate, McDSP or Waves. I also am a Pro Tools user, but more and more I've been using Studio One and loving it. On my next release I'm planning on doing the full edit/mix in Studio One and seeing how well it works. The main thing keeping me with Pro Tools is the fact that I've used it for well over 10 years now and I have so much muscle memory, and also the interface is super clean. However, Studio One is now fully updated to use M1 (also works with native and non-native plug ins!), which makes it solid as hell on my M1 Air.
You are correct; finally, someone said it. When you say "no one needs DSP processing" what you don't understand is that modern CPUs have DSP instructions in their ISAs; so, that's actually wrong: we *do* need DSP processing, just not from a separate DSP chip. A Shark DSP is just a processor with special ALUs, slightly special memory paths, and special instructions. Modern CPUs have those same capabilities but they actually run faster; the DSP capabilities in CPUs scale with the CPU implementation technology. I seriously doubt the DSP chip in UAD hardware is fabricated at 5nm like the Apple CPUs. The only issue is that the CPUs also need to run the OS and app GUI, but with multi-core CPUs, that's no longer a problem. DSPs will still have a place, but there's no longer a reason for them in mass-market audio. I should add that I hope UAD figures out a path forward. Luna is not that path.
Thank you Sir for bringing this to everyone's attention. I purchased 2 Apollo x8's and I'm using the ADAT on each one. That being said I can only use 10 plugins on the 11th one a message pops up saying that's the limit. I was told that I would need to purchase the UAD-2 Satellite Thunderbolt 3 OCTO. Another $1699.00!!!! That's when I stopped buying anymore UA products. I'm not the only one that has these issues as another studio I do business with was experiencing the same thing. They sold their UA set up and purchase Antelope interfaces. And your comparison to AVID is spot on. Left the Pro Tools money pit a long time ago moving to Studio One and never looked back. When I purchased the Apollo's I tried Luna which was ok but it reminded me of Pro Tools. The work flow in Studio One is so much better for me. Right now I'd have to say Audient iD44 is a great interface but only 4 channels which can expand to 20 channels with ADAT. Wish they would make an 8 or 12 channel interface with Thunderbolt 3. As far as plugins UA has some great ones, one reason I made the move but if I had to do it all over again knowing what I know now, I would not have made the move. Thank you again for everything you do and have a great day. Stay safe and may God bless 🙏✝️
I just ordered a UAD Apollo 6 from Sweetwater because they are throwing in a FREE L22 mic which is $1200. So that s getting the Apollo 6 for $1100. Even though that's a smoking deal, I am starting to think maybe it's overkill as I am buying a new MacbookPro with M2 chip. My Focusrite Clarret 8 pre is maxed out so need another 8 ports and was going to use ADAT to connect to the Apollo 6. Now I am wondering if I should cancel order and buy a used focusrite. This stuff confuses the tar out of me.
@@director2bob I have 2 Apollo's x8 I would have made you a good deal on. I'm going back to my RME UFX Fireface. It has never let me down but it wasn't Thunderbolt 3. That's the only reason I changed. Good luck either way you go with the new interface. Sweetwater is the best place to do business. Stay safe my friend and may God bless 🙏✝️🙏
I completely agree with this entire video. I have been with universal for years Apollo 8, 8x, Octo satellite, Quad satellite x2, I also own 95% of all their plugins. I am currently demoing the Antelope Orion32 HD with Protools Ultimate and I am completely in love. I believe I made my decision plus I own most of the Plugin Alliance catalog sooo... Bye UA ✌🏾
I agree. An m1 and a Scarlett is all you need. I invested in UAD interface and a satellite several years ago and was disappointed to see that I need to invest in at least 2 more satellites to run at least 10 plugins... their processors or like dial up internet... I rarely use them. I went ahead and invested in an Avalon and an i7 Mac mini with 32gb... runs incredible. I jumped on the M1 MacBook Pro with 16gb... It’s a beast... somehow these guys are still debating... ???
I went with antelope audio instead of UAD, and while it does sound amazing. The thing broke (I don’t travel with it, it broke on its own) just sitting on my desk and would glitch out all the time. I sent it in for repair. Took SIX MONTHS. I get it back and they said it wasent even broken. Well sure enough not even 5mins into me testing it, it starts to glitch up. They’re sending me a brand new one, but just my own personal experience, and I am not pleased with them. So keep that in mind maybe if you’re thinking of choosing one of they’re products.
@@BarryJohns sadly nothing but the interface (as in the buttons on the device, I believe 😭) The audio worked just fine, but it would cycle through inputs on its own, changing the audio from my mains to my second pair of speakers. It would freak out an fly all up and down the volume spectrum. You could over ride this issue by using there software to control there device. The problem is there software is just as glitchy, and half the time it doesn’t even wanna read the device in its own program…it’s such a shame because I really enjoy the sound and feel. But I don’t think I’ll be getting another one sadly
First of all you’re like the Kelsey Grammar of audio engineering. 😂 Secondly, 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾 Well said! I’ve been so far enjoying your content. Much respect to you and Universal Audio. Months later they have UAD Spark. Awesome.
I got the Apollo Twin and can barely run five of the new plugins in it. I was planning to get a satellite but then I realised that it would barely scratch the surface for what I need. Now after seeing this video, no way I am buying a Sattelite when I have a Threadripper that can run so many Plugin Alliance, Waves, Softube plugins. Amazing analysis btw. Subbed.
This is REALLY interesting. You make a TON of amazing points and you really made me rethink my studio. As you were speaking I have to admit, I thought deeply and I panned back and forth from my UA 1176LN in my input section over to the Apollo Twin Quad Core that transports the summed mix from my Heritage Audio MCM-32 into my iMac, which by the way, you made me really want an M1 system now! And I felt a little bit betrayed by UA. I spent what is to someone like me a good deal of money because I didn't believe the cloned hardware would be as good as the original stuff and I wanted to stay in the curve as long as I could but in 2 short years it seems it is now behind the curve. With all that said, do we just keep replacing all this stuff? Is it really that detrimental to still use it? There are so many developments in audio technology but is it really a major factor in a world where Spotify uses ACC which even isn't as good of a format as Redbook Audio which is older than I am? I'm not making points at all I'm curious and asking real questions. I'm a new subscriber and I really like what you're doing.
This video was perfect - like you were yelling directly at me haha. Barry, what would you suggest for someone running an M1 machine that needs a top notch interface to build a studio around? 16 channels minimum to start, hopefully able to easily daisy chain and expand to 24+ sometime in the near future.
First off let me say that I am a user of universal audio products. I’ve had their UAD card in my computer for a number of years and am very happy with its performance. Now with that being said, you are dead on point. With the advent of the M1, and the M1 X which is coming very shortly, I think the roadmap for universal audio and the SOC style chip is definitely A thinkable way to go. I also think that the plug-in alliance bundle is definitely a great product, which I also have myself. It is well thought out, and the plug-ins are just damn good. Great video, and well thought out. 👍🏽✌🏽
5:20 Similar, if not better?? No, they are the exact SAME. PA and UAD use the same code. The plugins even null. (Go watch some Paul Third videos) Then at 11:20 asking them to make their plugins work without DSP when there is already PA doing that exact thing.. I think your video sheds light on the issue but without linking that UAD and PA are the same plugins, you missed some major opportunities to drive the point home even further. (Yes I know not all plugins that UAD offers is also offered by PA but many are)
ua has done native plugins. I think they may port their stuff to native but here's the catch. The native Ua plugins will be Luna only. This has already started with the tape and console extensions in Luna.
Antelope has outstanding conversion and clocking. Users seems to love or hate them for stability. You can find as many horror stories as praises from users which seem to be driver issues. They are a very good value compared to what they give you “if” they work well for you. So based on that, and I hate saying it, I can’t recommend them. If they could develop a consistent user experience, I’d be all over them. When I made the switch away from ProTools, HDX, my stability for decades has been nothing but flawless for the most part. That system is a system that once you get it working, leave it alone, for years and years, just leave it alone, and it’ll work, and you’ll never think about any issues. So I was not willing to gamble on that when I made the move away. This is the main reason I went with an RME interface, which, for decades, now has been known as the most stable drivers available. granted, you can get a lot more bang for the buck with antelope interfaces, however, stability is incredibly important to me. Who knows, you could be one of the lucky ones and have zero issues, but if you’re not, you will regret the decision.
Yeah. I am SO GLAD I sold my Satellite with my Plugins altough I lost a lot of money. Buying into the UAD System about 10 month ago was one of the most costly mistake I ever made. Their system of hardware/plugins and that you can't sell the plugins separately is close to a scam. Not that they are bad, but compared to the competition, it is REDICULOUS. So glad I am OUT of that system!
I didn’t take this heart felt video literally. Hopefully most didn’t… Maybe moving into the future is an “and” model, versus an “or”? I love offsetting HW resources to the device versus my computer. They all behave too differently. But yep… that M1, & now M2 on the horizon is a tell tale sign that all vendors should factor into design. We all understand pivoting is not easy, but more alternatives, especially when you’re one of the best “should” be easier. Sticking with what works, until it doesn’t is all too common. I want to say you’re the last to know for whatever reason. (You’re not… 🤔) Working for a huge company and observing the attempt to pivot what seems to be an ocean liner just ‘ain’t easy. (Despite all the signs and alarms going off.) On that note… I love the video. It resonated with other aspects in business and not literally UA. (And you nailed that big word 😂👊🏽) Thx for sharing with us Barry.
In my experience, DSP has a place, and that place is tracking. I own Carbon, two TDM HD rigs, Antelope, and Apollos, as well as two M1 Macs and a newer Mac Pro. Yes, computers are powerful these days, but still not where they need to be to replace that experience. it's also true that some native developers are catching up in quality to UA (that's been their target for nearly two decades). Excluding the LUNA path, in my opinion there are two reasons to have an Apollo-based setup: reliable low latency performance at any stage in the production, and access to the UAD plugins. I own most PA, some SoundToys, all Waves, some Softube, SSL, some Slate, Arturia, etc., but I have not found a better version of any of the real classic studio staples: 1176, API 2500, LA2A, 1073, Studer, Ampex, 175b, etc.
Luke I said, some of their plugins TODAY still remain king! But it’s only a handful when looking at all the plugins they offer. They don’t update their plugins, the sharp processors they run on are over 15 years old, I hate to tell you this, but I’ve been tracking through plugins, and I mean heavy plugins in dense mixes on PT HD Native on a 2009 MacPro with a buffer of 32 with not noticeable latency for years now. My first test of my entry level MacBook Air for gods sake was with 125 tracks at a 32 buffer all with three intensive eq/compression/reverb plugins I record mode for over 30 minutes until I said enough is enough.
@@BarryJohns Hey Barry, it's Matt Hepworth. Obviously, we've interacted a long time (decade or more) on GS and the DUC. I've been in a similar boat and have a couple hot rodded 2009 Mac Pros as well. As you know, HD Native is MUCH higher latency than any of the options we've mentioned here (3.5ms at 44.1 with 32 buffer and HD I/O). Not gonna cut it for getting to that magic 2ms amount that minimizes comb filtering for vocalists. I've owned two HD Native systems and HDX as well. Latency is just too high. Carbon is king when it comes to latency, but only thanks to the DSP. HDX is much higher (1.85ms at 44.1 without any plugins). Carbon with plugins can stay sub 2ms -- even with eleventh hour punch ins. BTW, with HDN I had to use LLM to do those same punch ins, which meant patching in a hardware reverb and setting up a cue on the analog console. Pretty good vibe killer. ;-) The problem is there aren't any great versions of the studio staples that are AAX DSP and, unfortunately, we have to scratch the great sounding Purple MC77 from Brainworx because it adds 2ms by itself. The SHARC DSPs are old, but still viable, just like the HD and soon HDX chips. That's really the beauty of the Apollo tracking scenario. You have to be at 96kHz to approach Carbon's latency specs, but you can do it with the best versions of those studio staple plugins available. That's why I use it (often through ADAT into Carbon, in fact). BTW, the other latency king is QUANTUM with Studio One. 1.2ms at 44.1kHz with 16 buffer (PT minimum from the extra buffering is 2.68ms, which is still faster than HDN). When 3.5 launched I recorded all 27ins for 30 minutes at a buffer of 16 samples(!) with plugins throughout. This was on a 2012 MBP with an i7. Of course, the same wasn't true when going for eleventh hour overdubs... Nothing's perfect, unfortunately.
@@MattHepworth Matt, much respect!! Know I am not knocking at all the amazing plugins that UAD makes, they do have stiff competition today, not on every plug-in when comparing performance wise, but sound-wise, hum, that being said, performance is king. My gripe is NOT with UAD, it’s with the fact that Universal Audio has gone Too FAR as a company in stretching the life out of VERY old tech! Waaaaaaay to far! That being said, I would be interested in doing something with you talking about this and other things in a video centric way!
Preach it, Barry! I don't do a lot of work - my main client is my own imagination; yes, I'm educated in this craft. However, I own a spanking brand new 27" iMac, running Logic Pro through a Focusrite 18i20, and I cannot find one single reason to spend another dollar. My DAW-vs-computer platform offers me perpetual compatibility, along with a plethora of plugins and a sweet library of virtual instruments. Am I missing something? In my mind, if I can't get it done with my present rig, I never will. It's not about gear - it's all about hands-on winning and failing, hard work, and a 'never-say-die' attitude.
I agree with every point even though i am highly invested in UAD for a long time. The only thing that speaks for the dsp sollution is the tracking without latency and the unison feature but i am also sure that latency is going to be a non issue with native plugins in the future or it might already be so, i havent tried as im using UA..:-) i love UA products as well but i agree that the sharc tecnology is ancient and forces people to by more dsp cores than they should have to. And its also really expensive. And something else that bothers me alot is that UA is one of few manufacturers that havent released native suport for apple silicon for their products almost a year later..
One of the best videos i´ve seen so far. And its one year old. I think you are right. I will sell my UAD stuff, although i m a big fan of some of the plugins like the preamps in the unison slot and the ocean way room simulation AND Luna. But these are things i will replace with other components to make music. Thanks sir ✌🏻
With UA adding Luna "extensions" of their UAD plugins that run on native CPU, you can definitely see them going in the direction of native plugins. The M1 chips truly are revolutionary. Can't wait to see what happens with the next generation of them (which should be released soon).
I think Luna is their way, of keeping customers locked into their ecosystem instead of going full native, or upgrading their chipsets. For me they could go full native at least on their oldest plug-ins, or give more legacy/old plug-ins for free to people using Luna, like the precision line, and keep the unison ones for DSP. But everything seems slow, no updates for 3rd party collaborations, no hi-res GUI, prices are ridiculous for older products. I love everything I got from UAD, but going back in time I wouldn't walk that path again, there are better plug-ins, or many as good, loads of converters to choose.
I agree, I bought an Apollo 8 in 2016 when dsp was still a good thing and plugins were priced all the same, via very expensive. Computers were capable back then with no external dsp but there really wasn't anything that could top unison technology. Then Slate came out with his Neve preamp model plugin that could do everything including no latency on recording without using any hardware. His were way less expensive. At the same time Waves went from Uad prices to like $40 a plugin. Now I just got sick of the pc Protools and downloaded the free Cakewalk. Besides a few Waves plugins I have not used any of my Uad plugins because cakewalk has it all. Besides UAD unison plugins are huge and you can't use many. They don't need to be that huge. So for now I use Uad hardware and plugins for recording only no mixing. When that hardware becomes outdated I don't plan on buying Uad. Too pricey and come on Uad give pc users Luna. You are neglecting pc users and there are many of us.
@@cubitusjr.doublepattes4634 yup it's been 10 years... Intel is just realizing that can't keep producing bad chips, AMD has been constantly dominating and Apples new m1 chips are incredibly fantastic. At a minimum there should have a been an update with the technology, but there hasn't... UAD is not worth it, the alternatives are far better
I agree with you man. I must say though that we just invested so much money in UA. I totally see what you’re saying now after I’ve had this gear about a year now. My best friend is a producer and he uses PLAlliance and masterworx religiously. Cool vid. I subscribed!
Respectfully, while I agree with much said in the video (even though I run 2 large UA Facebook groups) I am one who does print while recording - and that means using a DSP based interface works well. I do 'not' use DSP based plugins for most mix processing. Just a few choice UA plugins along with many 3rd party native plugins. (I actually removed a UA OCTO Satellite from my setup and will probably sell it in the near future.) But again, when tracking in real time - even with my powerful 12 core Mac Pro - using DSP/FPGA processing in real time while not having to change buffer settings or sample rates is a big advantage. Not so much when mixing.
I use a focusrite scarlett, and i5 8th gen laptop...i can get upto 3ms of latency when tracking with 3 plugins....ig the mac can get wayyy lesser that is basically neglegable compared to dsp. So is it worth really worth it?
Pretty much same here. I use the SSL strip to tape...throw an LA2A or 1176 on the busses when needed, and I put the G Compressor on my master bus. That's pretty much it. I track realtime and coming from the Scarlett 18i20 it's lightyears ahead.
@@dwaaaiii8757 Respectfully - you're saying you achieve 3 ms of 'round trip' latency through your DAW on an i5 with a USB based Scarlett at 44.1 kHz? (Focusrite's site doesn't report numbers that low.) Further - to do so - you would need to lower the buffer setting to it's minimum - forcing your machine to work extremely hard. With a DSP based audio interface - you can work at 1024 buffer if needed and even at 44.1 kHz you can monitor thru plugins at lower than 1 ms.
@@chevaliermusic the i5 will allow you to record at 64 on the buffer setting if you have decent ram…but mixing at that resolution can be a nightmare when you have a lot of plugins running. It’s a bad trade off
What are people doing where they need to worry about this DSP issue? As a professional recording musician for the last few years, I use an Apollo Twin and still don't know much about DSP and all of that stuff. I'm just happy to be able to record without latency and use plugins that I wouldn't usually use. Now I'm picking up the VOLT 1 to track my vocals when away from the home rig. All these extra specs are for engineers and such, musicians who record don't care about all of that as long as they can still mix and release to the masses. My Steinberg and behringer failed me multiple times. My Apollo has been flawless from day one. Like you said, the majority of folks don't need it to track vocals so that's the lane I'm speaking from. Others have other perspectives and I respect that.
Also what could have worked is if they stop the silly mixer teases and actually release something like the presonus mixer or what Behringer has created with onboard dsp if they want to milk it, instead of releasing pedals
Man this hits right on point for me! I’ve always wanted to go with a UAD interface and try out the echo system. Probably at least twice a year I consider it, but every time I think about it, it comes down to me being discouraged by all the compatibility issues I read and the lack of speed to keep up with technology like the M1. The lack of being able to function with other technology like OBS, zoom, and iOS. So it’s always hard for me to buy in. Thus why I’ve gone with Apogee since it seems like they are keeping up with the changing technology around them.
Let me ease your mind a bit...I took a while to decide because I thought just like you did. Then I took the plunge about 2 months ago now with a new Apollo Twin X. It's awesome. Contrary to what you've apparently heard, it does work very well with OBS & Zoom. I haven't tried with iOS. But from my experience it does work great with Big Sur. I can't speak to M1 chips either, because I'm running a 2019 MacBook Pro, before the M1 chips. Apogee is great for some stuff. I prefer the sound, plugins, and everything about the functionality of the Apollo though. It's awesome.
My Apollo X systems work wonderful with my new m1 Mac and pro tools. No issues. None. Keep in mind though. You’re definitely going down a rabbit hole and you definitely need to be prepared to pay outrageous prices for some of their plug-ins. You’re going to want the plug-ins. You’re going to love them after you demo them and then you’re going to spend thousands on plug-ins. UAD knows this, and they capitalize off of it. Plug-in alliance stuff is amazing for the price. Not quite UAD.. but I still use them every day and couldn’t do without them. Same with slate digital. What I can say for sure though, is that the UAD distressor plug-in is the only plug-in that sounds EXACTLY.. and I mean 100% identical to my hardware distressor. Some of the other distressor emulations sound Great! there’s nothing wrong with them, but if what you want is a plug-in that basically is exactly the same as hardware, you have to go UAD. Same with their 1176 and LA2A. I love the slate stuff, I love the plugin alliance stuff but nothing gives me the feeling of using real analog gear like the UAD stuff does. UAD plug-ins really are the closest to the real gear. But having plug-ins that sound exactly like hardware isn’t necessarily important for everyone. Personally, I love the sound of hardware.. so UAD is my best bet for vocal compressors, EQ, and mix bus stuff. But I mixed great mixes Without owning any UAD products for years. You don’t need UAD! But once you do get UAD.. and if you’re used to/or you love hardware... you’re going to appreciate UAD and you’re not gonna want to do without them.
Very interesting perspective as I have had zero issue with having my limits with running UA Plugins with its Duo core DSP processor / not being able to use them without the interface. Never saw this angle as DPS never bothered me, if anything it helped me when my computers didn’t have the power and even now my 2019 intel MacBook Pro I still prefer having the DSP than not. I’d love to see a new “modern” interface with the updated chipset as I’m all about the power for the dollar. I truly loved this video and it opened my eyes to “problems” we have within the hardware side of these companies that I never really put together as my Apollo, and everyone else’s, is essentially another computer dedicated for audio processing. Why is it that your videos inspire me to make my own when I can’t find inspiration anywhere else!?! Seriously great video, great perspective, no hate at all, new window to look through, thanks Barry!
I think UAD should never go Subscription base. They separate the boys from the mens. And also I love the fact that the plugins process on the Shark cards and not your CPU. But I totally understand your view and where you coming from partner.
"They separate the boys from the mens" Dp they really though? it's more of a rich kid vs poor kid situation, any engineer that actually knows what they are doing can make a radio ready song with Reaper, and I"d love to see a sure fire why to pointout what plugin company made the 1176 clone on a finished song. Also even if that was true, it's kind of a shitty gate keeping mentality anyway, like if only selling point for your service over the kid usering reaper is that you have expensive plugin's/gear then you probably not that great of an engineer anyway.
Third party DSP hasn't made sense in 15 years. AVID or UA or whoever isn't making processors as well as Apple intel and AMD. The idea that I would overpay for inferior processors to run overpriced plugins that I can only run a few instances of bc they only run on those inferior processors is wild as fuk. Its not seperating men from boys or rich kids from poor kids. It's seperating the savy from the unsavy. Spec or build an appropriate maschine and run a fast daw..... now... if you're Andrew Scheps or some shit and you mix number one albums... then you can do all sorts of shit that doesn't make sense and my two cents means gots.
@@EDAPE you’re dead on. The people who have a hard on for defending UA’s shitty practices are either too invested in their ecosystem or are shills, because there’s no reason why it should be so restricted. If I want to take my laptop to a friends house and collaborate, I have to take an entire interface with me to use some plug-ins? What a joke
Great video Barry! I'm a producer/composer that mainly writes for production librarys. I have the old Apollo Twin Duo and a Satellite Octocore. And a couple thousand dollars of UA plug-ins. I still absolutely love my Apollo twin, but I barely ever turn on my satellite octocore. I havent bought any new UA plugins in a few years now. I really only use UA plugins to track guitars and basses. From my perspective I really wish UA would make some more visually modern and creative plugins. Don't get me wrong I love their emulations but if I reach for an EQ or compressor after tracking, the first one I go with is fabfilter. For mastering or widening its iZotope. But I'm not an engineer, I'm a producer and I need results quick and plugins that are intuitive and creative from a producer's perspective. I really hope they will consider this. Cheers!
I'm pretty sure that UA is acutely aware of the issues raised here. I initially gave you a thumbs down because you came off a bit strong, but I stuck with you and have to agree with alot of what you said. Times are changing. Exponential change is disruptive.
Yea I agree with this. I actually upgraded from a Focusrite 2i2 to the Apollo Twin X which is great and I enjoy that the UAD plugins use DSP but I did not know that they couldn't be used without the apollo. I just knew UAD had a good interface and good plugins. I was under the assumption that the plugins work on a computer normally and an added benefit of getting the interface would be offloading the processing. The plugins I like the most for mixing are UAD actually and I do like the unison preamp tech, but just looking at the plugins, the prices are insane. For myself, I just wanted to upgrade my interface but now by buying some UAD plugins it's like I'm locked into this system that I didn't even realize existed at first
LUNA is a reflection of what UAD believes is the future. Modeling analog workflows from the past. We are always being told that we need to "glue" our mixes better, and introduce "saturation" like the tape machines of the past. Sure, OK - but at the UAD price of entry it's really difficult to compete. And does UAD literally do those things better than everyone else? More importantly, who are we as musicians when we attempt to impress anyone other than the listener with our recordings? Who are we really recording for? People who want to hear our music will NEVER complain about "warmth" and "analog" and any other technical feature of how recordings are made. Either they like the song, or they don't (within reason, of course). With UAD, there is always a cap on everything - either not enough hardware, or far too expensive plugins. I sure wish I had a rack of 8xp's and all their plugins though! ha ha
Sold my Apollo and left PT for the same exact reason, now i switched to Ableton + Studio One, bought an Antelope interface and use Plugin Alliance and Softube Never been happier
Man I got the apollo x6 and I heard the converters on the antelope I was blown away how balance it sounded and nice lows which antelope you got you ? Also use a rupert neve mic pre I dont use uad pres.which rackmount you think I should get ?
At the time I purchased my Apollo I thought it change everything sound wise, but I always use vast majority PA, Sound Toys, and Softube plug-ins these days. Haven't purchased a UA plugin in years regardless of the sales because they still don't discount anywhere near enough. THERE IS NO REASON TO PAY THAT MUCH FOR PLUGINS ANYMORE PERIOD!! UA plugs absolutely sound fantastic, but UA as with Waves has lost the "WOW" factor for me. ...But I'd rather UA just keep doing what they are doing rather than put out gimmicky crap like Waves does these days.
They do not get updated. The price fairly compares with Waves ripoff yearly update. I did not mind paying for them. I now see them aging and am a bit sad
I do not find UA plugins overly expensive…if one purchases them wisely. UA has numerous periods every year where they deeply discount their products. UA does not I,pose a subscription model on their customers…which is very important to me. I prefer to own my plugins (which can be resold if one desires) and not be forced to pay tribute to the developer every year.
I think everything else is okay except the price points of the hardware and plugins. I just bought an satellite octo and an apollo twin and it’s actually nice to use the plugins without increasing the latency on my projects
@@ValenteVillanuevaMusic Well, I guess I'd ask why you feel you'd like to continue with DSP when its simply not needed anymore if you have a modern well built/spec'd computer that today can be had for around 1k with the M1 Macs as an example? I guess, I'm more curious why people feel they still need it today? I get it if a person does not own a powerful computer, then of course it's needed. UA gear is extremely expensive for what you get. It makes a lot more sense to buy a stronger computer vs an 8 Core Satellite unit as an example that only has about 5% of the processing of an M1 Mac, but the same cost. I've been recording without latency for years and years, tracking through plugins, overdubbing at anytime, without ever paying attention to latency because for me its been a thing of the past for a while now. That was all on a very expensive MacPro, but today, for 1k or so, you can buy a computer that smokes it......Hum? Its like people still buying basic calculators when you have incredible ones on your phone, computer, etc?
@@BarryJohns because even though the processor can handle it, every plugin will add latency to the project and that will add up and be a pain in the ass in the final stages of the project where it takes half a second between they press on a keyboard and for the pc to play it. Uad plugins don’t add that latency as they are processed separately in the cards. + its good to have some extra power. Nevertheless this is not worth all the money they are asking for this but I think dsp is a cool concept. I have the new alder lake intel i7 12700k which is currently more powerful than the m1 and I still run out of power on some of my projects so anyway it’s good to have some extra power with the dsp. But yes, the price is ridiculous.
@@ValenteVillanuevaMusic that what you have latency compensation for in your DAW. Try not to confuse that with CPU latency which is caused by many factors, most of which is how fast can the CPU process the 1’s to 0’s then from 0’s to 1’s. It’s the round trip that has historically been the issue. Plug-in latency is more a track alignment issue in the timeline than an audible one when tracking. It’s in playback when this is an issue historically, albeit not for a very long time. Your Delay Compensation in your DAW makes sure that everything gets placed in your timeline properly. This has not been an issue as it was addressed many years ago in all DAW’s. CPU latency affects the delay of the audible signal when you are recording. This is what we are talking about.
What i think should happen, and this is my opinion, is Apple should buy UAD, and integrate the apollo lineup into their ecosystem, probably upgrade the Shark chip with a M1 based processor and integrate Luna and Logic into a Frankendaw with the best of both world.
This video is spot on. There are a lot of choices that are affordable and produce a quality result. Avid, UA, Waves etc are behind the curve at this point. I wish they would produce levels of products that address all the price points. and STOP the subscription crap! People want to buy something and own it for good not rent something. UA is quality but if no one can afford it or be able to expand their systems without spending $3k on a unit, what's the point? It's 2021 and its time to rethink the future.
I use an M1 system, and even though it’s killer, most of my plugins and DAWs run in intel mode, which does eat up my CPU/RAM like crazy, I can only have a few instances of a plug-in alliance channel strip before a crash, so until everything goes native with M1, DSP does offer me a work around… for now at least, there is still an argument for DSP… but the real solution is move everything to silicon native rather than cling to the DSP bandaid
even in intel mode if you can't run more than a few instances of a PA channel strip on a M1 there's definitely a bug/something wrong! contact PA support if you can, I don't think that's an argument for DSP, just a bug.
Barry, I REALLY enjoy how you get all emotional about that subject. I am the same way, so kudos to you! I just wrote an Email to Plugin alliance about their constant "SALE SALE SALE" strategy which I really despise. What do you think about that? And btw I really love their plugins!
Wow you took the words right out of my mouth. I have a UAD satellite firewire. I’m going to be upgrading to an apple M1 Max studio. Apparently UAD is not going to support the satellite anymore. I get it it’s fire wire but at least when I had my trashcan Apple computer, I was able to just plug the FireWire 800 into an adapter that changed it to thunderbolt and it worked fine. Now they’re not gonna support it at all and I get it it’s time to MoveOn but I’ve spent thousands of dollars through UAD and they’re not gonna support it anymore I call BS ! I went through that same situation with waves I went to do a project and Collett my waves plug-ins and waves turned around and said oh you need to update you need to spend $250 more for your update. I was like I just dropped like $1000 on this stuff are you serious. Now when I called tech-support they basically told me yeah sorry dude that’s the way it is. I’m done!
🥰🥰🥰 I am loving you sir ,you are like me you say the truth, its only sad that our generation dont have people saying the truth again.. I still follow the old pattern of life that is why I appreciate you.
Inspiring video! It's a year later and I think UA listened! I wondered what was going on with the new plugin subscription (they even a gave me a couple for free!) from the evangelists of DSP hardware emulation! Stinks for all of us who brought into the system- I own a Satellite and Apollo Duo but I stopped buying new plugins a few years back as it was breaking my wallet and ticking off my better half. Another vendor is Sound Toys resting on their laurels- same products for way too many years -but at least they don't cost a small fortune. Pretty cool about the Macs as I didn't realize the full impact of the M1. I'm a PC guy (upgraded to a $4000 monster March 2022) and therefore more comfortable with a PC but I have used a modern Mac and really the learning curve isn't that bad. Once you get into the app pretty much the same. So maybe my next PC will be a Mac 🙂 I'm old dog at 61 but always up for new tricks lol!
You are decent and fair!! You are speaking on my behalf and I think we all need to move on and leave the big names behind. The underdogs are the key to success and then they become the Top Dog and at that point, we will bet on the next UNDERDOG!!
Universal Audio, you do need to up the ante... I am in total agreement with Barry regarding your antiquated technology. I was an early adopter of your plugins from inception, but now there are other companies that are running laps around your products. I do love your hardware 610's and 6176's (even though it is probably another division of UA) I collectively have 5 of these units in my studio.
I like this. I invested in UAD a few years back. I am very happy with their platform and plugins. The price though is ludicrous considering the offerings from other companies nowadays. I don't jive with Plugin Alliance (with a few exceptions) but Softube's and even a few other companies offerings are incredible. To me it is hard to say "better" because it is all subjective and we have our own individual uses for a plugin. But the price being what it is and the "sales" UAD has lowering it to ~$100 a plugin if you bundle is crazy making it a pretty easy choice. On top of that, if they did something crazy like a subscription model or lower there prices where they should be I would feel a bit bummed cause I spent a lot on them. Curious what they have in store for the future. I want them to succeed too. I am a hobbyist that invested pretty heavily in them buying 2 interfaces already. I love tracking with the FX it makes a huge difference to me which is why I lean towards UAD.
I'm a UAD user and I agree with what you're saying.. Now with Mac's M1 processor the need for additional DSP for plugins will become obsolete unless they upgrade their chips. The thing is that for now that I'm running an old Intel Mac so it makes sense as if I'd still be living in 2018. After I upgrade to an M1 then I'm sure it won't make sense to spend money on UAD if they don't upgrade they're hardware and plugins. I also agree with the clone gear comment as well.
I totally agree with you on all points about UHD. I feel the antelope Audio and his truly forward to working with their approach, and in recent years, they have fixed many of their service issues. I think that they are currently the best “interface with DSP” companies on the market.
Luna and + uad unison is sooo dope! Love this running system, using Neve 1084 without any latency, perfectly matched with this amazing sounding Apollo solo. I’m not a fanboy, I’m not working for uad but this is just my experience. I don’t use all the plugins. Some are quite similar to other much cheaper ones but some are extraordinary. Manley, Neve, Summing, Luna for Stem mixing. Great and well engineered system, with a long history of amazing hardware etc! Don’t forget how many plugins are based on these developers back in the 50‘s etc. this is not for everybody but cheap is not always the best way in life. People forgetting to pay for quality and that you don’t need everything for nothing. It’s better to have only what you really need!
As someone looking to make some home studio purchases in the near future I enjoy these videos. There are so many options out there these days. I like you industry insights and discussion as far as the trends and trajectories of various companies. What kind of work do you do if you don't mind my asking? I would guess you are in product development? Keep it up!
Joyful tears in my eyes UAD, really, never seen a big company respond humbly to a review video. ❤UAD. My respect for you has increased immensely. Thank you.
Got Christmas money so I was finally going to get some top knotch plugins. Went to UAD's pick 10 for $1,000, until I realized you had to have hardware like you mentioned that standard being around for longer than most (me) of us have been alive. Needless to say Plugin Alliance per month deal, NoiseAsh preamp collection, Softtube Bundle for what around $500 is a much better option😎
This was a great rant - it's kinda convinced me to sell off my Apollo and go with all the stuff I've gotten in the latest IK group buy and a Clarett interface
When I upgraded my MOTU 896HD last year (it only stopped working properly on Catalina OS), I initially bought a UAD x8p and it sounded nice and all, but it actually got pretty hot. I ended up getting up an Antelope Orion. Their interface is a little obtuse, but I've been happy with it. And the clarity and stereo imaging is better to me. I don't think their model will necessarily go away. There are still large console manufacturers etc and I think there will always be a higher end available. Generally people won't change what they use once they're in an ecosystem, no matter who it's from.
The truth of the matter is that I like the idea of offloading plug-in consumption from my computer. UAD’s system offers that, but your points are spot on. It’s one reason I haven’t gotten into UAD (yet?) personally. I’m curious what you’re talking about regarding not needing DSP in the future, that will be a game changer!
The new M1 Macs as well as recent AMD/INTEL CPU’s in the last six months have changed so much and offer incredible power that the majority of people simply don’t need DSP anymore. My advice is to spend that money on a new highly specd’ M1 Mac, it will get you much further than UAD’s incredibly low power DSP for todays tech.
Right there with you, been doing this for 40 years too. Working in Hardware/Software development just as long. The only constant in technology is change! I love my UA hardware and Software, I also agree they need to update with the times, I left ProTools 6 years ago and switched to Presonus Studio One, (love Presonus). I finally am getting rid of my old keyboards, and other musical and studio out dated stuff too. I really hope UA stays around a long, long time.
Thanks for your feedback and passion Barry. We don’t have to agree on every point you made, but we want you to know we’re listening. It’s people like you who keep us on our toes and push us to maintain UA’s legacy of craftsmanship. We hope you stay tuned and continue offering your input and support. We won’t disappoint.
👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾
This is what we should all respect from a company. You have my interest peaked! I do want you to succeed!
I left Avid and Pro Tools entirely because of their insane prices and lack of features that free from competitors and lack of care for their customers. I’ve been using Logic Pro and the Apollo series interfaces ever since, but recently I’ve been quite disappointed with Universal Audio’s pricing for upgrading their interfaces and even more outraged at the prices of their plugins, it just doesn’t make sense anymore and Barry you’re so right. I love Universal Audio I’ve made so much amazing music with their products and it’s change my life, I would really hate to see them go the path that Avid has gone, I really hope they find a way to make things make sense soon.
@@BarryJohns 100!
I'm all in on UA stuff. Let's go!
Heres the thing, I'm coming from a trained IT background, with CPUs getting faster every year, it no longer makes any sense to have non-native plugs. The best thing I did for my music making was building my own PC, a desktop i7 with 32GB of RAM.
But you don't have to build your own, but try and avoid laptops, as laptop class CPUs are significantly slower than dssktop class ones. But a lot of all-in-one type desktops are using laptop class CPUs, so do your research and buy as fast a PC or Mac as you can afford!
I am so glad this video was made. I could not AGREE MORE. UAD used to be my favorite plugin company. But they started loosing me when I realized other companies just as good were charging far cheaper. And the nail in the coffin was their Piano and Moog plugins. UAD charges for one of these plugins what Arturia charges for all their instruments on sale. And what Spectrasonics charges for over 30 impeccably sampled keyboards. That’s when I realized UAD did not care about customers. They are hell bent on taking advantage of all of us.
I own the Apollo X4 and was considering buying the X8 if they offer the free Satellite bundle this holiday season. A friend of mine hired me to build him a hi-end/entry level home studio and after weeks of research I decided to build his setup around the Apogee Symphony Desktop Interface and a TLM103 Mic. After running his setup for a month it’s very difficult for me to justify going deeper into the UAD rabbit hole. My X4 will be used for my portable setup. I’m considering running with Apogee or Antelope for my main setup soon. Especially since I can’t bypass the preamps on the X4 I currently have and the ecosystem itself is ridiculously expensive overtime. Great Video!
Barry, Great Video! I am 55 years old and its taken until about 10 years ago for me to realize that no matter how much I spend on any technology device or software, it will eventually be obsolete. This type of thinking keeps me grounded when spending my hard earned money. I have a ton of obsolete stuff (M-Audio Lightbridge, old MOTU firewire interfaces, etc.). I realize there is some vintage gear that remain relevant, but not very much. Unless your producing for world-class artists, sometimes the difference between a $5,000 piece of hardware and it's $50 software equivalent is so minute, most people would never tell the difference when hearing a recording. Anyway, I think companies need to think about this when they try and charge astronomical prices for their stuff.
Barry!! You nailed that man! I've had my finger on the UAD trigger so many times in the last few years but they are just too expensive and almost every other plugin maker has upped their game substantially. On top of the fact you can buy WA outboard gear for almost the same price as UAD plugins! ~Awesome stuff! 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Saw you got the SSL UC1 how are you liking it so far? I'm trying to hold off for the $50 essential bundle deal (CS and BC plugins) if they do it again. Still kicking myself for missing out on that in Feb. and not ready to splurge on UC1 but it looks awesome. (edit) Wow perfect timing too I just watched your video on the SSL EQ $40 sale! Right on!
I’m al honesty I think uad plugins are probably better than W/A…. That’s low class outboard gear compared to other companies.
I’m al honesty I think uad plugins are probably better than W/A…. That’s low class outboard gear compared to other companies.
Totally agree. I've stayed out of the UAD game the past few years and have been glad I have.
Me too. I've never bought into their overpriced inventory. And won't.
I 💯 % agree. Everything you mentioned is the reason why I sold my Apollo and switch to Burl/RME. I really felt mislead by the fancy marketing and being sucked into a sales funnel with UAD.
Excellent points, Barry. Especially NOW, w/ the cost of entry having increased by a good bit recently and over the last couple of years! Im on my 3rd Apollo. I originally had the Twin Duo USB (horrific experience when it came out on Windows which aided in my migration to Apple) which was replaced by the Twin Duo TB, and now currently the Apollo Twin Quad MKII. But recently, at just over 2 years old it had to be repaired by Sweetwater due to the failure of a 60 cent capacitor (C202) which the Tech readily mentioned was the most common issue they see! This wasn't a warranty repair mind you, so I had to come out of pocket a couple hundred bucks to repair a $1300 device purchased just a couple years prior! Now having said that, and despite it, I need more I/O. Now obviously I would love to stay within the UA ecosystem, so naturally I've looked into the X6 and X8. But with the prices being what they are now? And since I really just need more I/O not more DSP, it's forcing me really to look elsewhere sadly. It just doesn't make sense to spend $3100+tax for 8 more Ins/Outs and unneeded/outdated SHARC chips. As you mentioned, you can quite literally purchase a loaded M1 Mac Mini, and a Focusrite Clarett+ 8Pre, 1 year of Plugin alliance, and still have at least $500-$600 bucks left over to play with (not counting the PA voucher you'll get back) versus the cost of an X8! It just doesn't make sense any more. Or rather I should say.. *It's really no longer a sound decision*. 😉
Their products are ridiculously ridiculous. With all the money you spent already think about it, you could have bought a Moto interface with all the ins and outs you need, and a lunchbox with a few official pieces of REAL processors to put in it. 😂. I don't fall for Apple's BS either. I've been on a PC for ten years and I refuse to buy a Mac. They're overpriced as well. I've mixed industry projects on my PC and never had an issue with crashing because it's built right, and I send everything to an external hard drive anyway so that my computer stays fresh. I feel sorry for the people who try to "keep up with the Jones's". No thanks.
Mr. Its Trips I couldn't agree more. In this day and age most of the interfaces sound quality is not that big of a gap. at the end of the day I guess it just boils down to what people preferences are and workflow. I had my Clarett now for 5 years beatin it down on the regular with no issues (knock on wood). I would've love to purchased an Apollo but my money was funny and my change is strange. instead I was able to but a new M1 and still had loot leftover to by other essential things for the studio. Besides I'm able to record with my expensive Roland drums with foocusite or Motu where as I'm not because the Apollo do not have midi capability
I am capable of recording real acoustic drums I just like having more options at the end of the day.
@@darrellroseborough7275 I feel it. I was cracking up at funny money strange change 😂
And despite my comment being 8 months ago, I was just revising this cause I still need more I/O to eventually route stuff to outboard. But kinda got my eye on this Cranborne which is a interface, summing mixer, monitor controller, and has 8 slots for 500 modules. I think it’s called a 500R8 but could be wrong. That thing looks lit tho!
Don’t get me wrong. I love my UA plugins. They sound great. But I love my PA plugins and they’re WAY cheaper and just as good. And I wanna get out of the box more, not stay locked in it. So UA prob ain’t getting more of my bread. Apple will tho! 😂 and maybe cranborne!
Great video, Barry. I only bought into UAD solely for the fact that my pre-M1 macbook air couldn’t keep up with the CPU usage of using too many plugins. But like you said, with these new M1/M1X machines, that completely eliminates my need for relying on UAD’s DSP system
I’ve had UAD for over 10 years. I’ve spent thousands and thousands of dollars on their products. However, I haven’t given them a dime in nearly 6 years. I’m still using a handful of their plugins, but even the ones I’ve stood by for years are slowly getting replaced by the competition. Great video… this is the truth.
Doesn't that also kind of show you how good their products are? That you haven't had to chase technology? That the stuff is just good enough? I'm a bit confused as I'm looking to buy into this ecosystem to be honest. It's kind of like buying a Toyota. You spend a little more upfront, but then it just works. For a LONG time typically.
@@marcusvaldes To me personally, I think there are now enough quality tools out there that the gap between UA and everything else has shrunk quite a bit. I can easily record and mix songs without using UA at all, however sometimes I'll still use the few plugins that I'm comfortable with since I already have them. But as I mentioned, I'm using less and less UA as technology changes and the gap closes. I also think I've just become much better at my craft over the years and don't need the UA badge to justify my work or make me feel more 'pro'. I think UA makes a really good product, but I also think the whole ecosystem is painfully overpriced and overrated by many of their users. There's a lot of good gear out there. Once you start fiddling with all of it, you realize how little of it you really need in order to make good music.
@@BigTimmy11 I spent a fair amount of time after this video trying to figure out "OK, if not UAD Apollo, then what?" All roads keep leading me back to the Apollo. I mean which OTHER $1500 interface does the job? I mean that seriously. I'm not sure what else....
@@marcusvaldes I suppose it depends on what you're trying to do. You can get a used Lynx Aurora 16 for $800. You can get an Aurora 8 for even less. To my ears, the Lynx sounds noticeably better than an Apollo. Then you have the option of all kinds of outboard preamps. You're not tied down to anything. You can get some decent pres for cheap to get you rolling and then slowly upgrade them with more expensive stuff if you feel it's necessary. But that may not be something you're into.
I'm so glad I found your channel. I'm starting out my home studio after 35 years of playing live and making records over the years. I almost invested $4000 on all kinds of UAD equipment because I thought I had to have the best only to find out I could invest $650 in an Mac Mini M2 and a Focusrite rackmount 8 preamp input with talkback for $650 out the door. $1300 vs. $4000. when you said "Is the extra $2800 worth what your getting?" and I had to ask myself what makes sense? Picking up my new M2 tomorrow and Interface this weekend. Like that you say what you think.
I love my Apollo Twin, it was my upgrade on my entry level Komplete 6 starter interface and it was a fantastic level up. I’m at the point now where I’m looking at upgrading again to an 8/16 rack mounted unit and I find it really hard to justify putting more money into the UAD model in its current format. Hopefully they do have something planned for the future that includes a modernisation of their interface/dsp/plug-in offering.
UAD doesn't owe us anything... but they also have to be competitive. There are many, many great plugin makers. I bought the UAD Minimoog plug on special, yeah it was still quite expensive, but it's a very accurate and authentic instrument.
Wow, real talk. You are the truth, Barry! I made a purchase the other day on a Macbook Air M2 13.6 with 24GB of memory, 10 core GPU, and 2TB SSD @ $2700 and will probably bite the bullet with more mac purchases for my music needs, and still making purchases on the great outboard analog gear of all kinds, I have Avalon stuff, LA 610 mic pre, etc. I couldn't resist making a lower purchase on a great unit by warm, the Warm Audio WA-MPX 1-channel Tube Mic/Line/Instrument Preamp. I love that unit now; thanks for your passionate feeling about UAD. I've always felt they were over; price is why I purchased every one of (plugin alliance's excellent plugins).
I get it for mixing.
What about low-latency recording/monitoring? How does an M1 stack up vs UAD DSP?
I agree. I think Barry eluded to that in the first half about people that need processing (those who track full bands or 16 drum tracks at a time) and those who do not (the bedroom mixers who don't do a lot of tracking). I'm not a Logic user so I'm not sure how the M1 delivers on that at this time. I'll be upgrading my old I7 Mac mini when the second generation of M1 comes out, hopefully later this year.
I've tracked full bands with my M1 and plugins on every track. M1 is a breeze. No problems at all in Studio One v. 5.4 which is M1 native now
This is exactly right. Latency for vocalists is always an issue. Tracking a band is one thing. Coming back with a 100 track project and laying down new vocals without monitoring latency is trickier. Instrumentalists can handle a lot more latency than vocalists and high track counts push buffers and samples up and can push RTL over 2-4ms where a seasoned vocalist will notice it and be irritated by it. It’s why pro studios still “favor” Avid HDX and Apollo UAD. M1 chips are awesome. Native plugins are awesome. But, DSP while tracking makes life a lot easier. Mixing can be totally native. Tracking is possible but harder in a professional environment. “One moment Ms. Halsey while I lower my buffers, freeze some tracks, and turn off my screen saver.”
Additionally, my Apollo x8 allowed me to eliminate a monitor controller and still run three sets of monitors with a simple button push between them. When I look at thunderbolt, converters, build quality, amount of IO, etc. I don’t really consider the x8 to be overpriced compared to the other interfaces out there and the hardware I don’t need like a monitor controller.
@@christopherbrown5225 if you’re nervous m1 can handle high track and plug-in count with low buffers… you could just bounce a mix, open a new project and have the vocalist sing over that in low latency mode? Can then import those tracks back into the original project for mixing.
Finally, someone said it! Thank you 🙏
Thank you Barry for your deeply reflected rant. And even though I am one of those who have only recently invested quite heavily in the UAD system, I totally agree with you on almost every aspect. I do still however that the quality of their highend (mkII) plugins are a tad infront of the competition, like Plugin Alliance. (I have good ears and decades of experience too.) BUT one thing for sure is, it won’t be for long anymore. The competition is closing in on UA at rapid speed. And PA’s aproach is so amazing on almost all levels. And regarding the aged Sharc processors, it’s just ridiculous. The thing is that I have a feeling that UA seems to care about their Legacy and unlike AVID actually also for their customers, so I expect that something is cocking. But you are right. We still have some serious signs of progress. And another Update of LUNA won’t cut it. For the same reasons there was a huge annoyment among their users, when they earlier this year launched the UAFX pedals. Not because they were not great, but because people were expecting UA to follow up on the list of ‘slank’ first. Such like, A DSP improvement or even better a Native solution. Legacy plugins that is in need of a MKII Update, and not to mention GUI/Retina updates. That process has taken ages and many important titles are still not there yet. So I’m not even talking about development of entirely new projects. Many UA users, I believe, will rather see improvement on the above than something fancy and new. Because of the very reason that they are professional, and you expect the tools you use day in and out, to be the same. To be the best they can be. And I believe you gotta be very ignorant as a developer not to see this. Especially in the light of rapid development and the competition. I hope that UA is aware of this, because like you I want them to succeed too.
Right on, Per! I felt that! 💯
Hey there Barry, thanks for this video. I’ve been looking to set my small home studio. I’ve had my eyes on an UA PCIe for months but I wasn’t sure if I should pull the trigger on that, until this video. Technology advanced so much in the last 6-7 years that I dont even believe the power computers are offering. Thank you!
i was considering the UAD X6 mainly because of the variable impedance that changes to mimic the hardware its emulating as far a preamps etc.. what would you recommend instead?
Prism Lyra 2
Honesty for $500 I got a Scarlett 18i20, and that thing is an absolute powerhouse, and with the money saved over buying a UA I can buy one or two nice hardware pre-amps and some phenomenal plug ins from Slate, McDSP or Waves. I also am a Pro Tools user, but more and more I've been using Studio One and loving it. On my next release I'm planning on doing the full edit/mix in Studio One and seeing how well it works. The main thing keeping me with Pro Tools is the fact that I've used it for well over 10 years now and I have so much muscle memory, and also the interface is super clean. However, Studio One is now fully updated to use M1 (also works with native and non-native plug ins!), which makes it solid as hell on my M1 Air.
You are correct; finally, someone said it. When you say "no one needs DSP processing" what you don't understand is that modern CPUs have DSP instructions in their ISAs; so, that's actually wrong: we *do* need DSP processing, just not from a separate DSP chip. A Shark DSP is just a processor with special ALUs, slightly special memory paths, and special instructions. Modern CPUs have those same capabilities but they actually run faster; the DSP capabilities in CPUs scale with the CPU implementation technology. I seriously doubt the DSP chip in UAD hardware is fabricated at 5nm like the Apple CPUs. The only issue is that the CPUs also need to run the OS and app GUI, but with multi-core CPUs, that's no longer a problem. DSPs will still have a place, but there's no longer a reason for them in mass-market audio. I should add that I hope UAD figures out a path forward. Luna is not that path.
Thank you Sir for bringing this to everyone's attention. I purchased 2 Apollo x8's and I'm using the ADAT on each one. That being said I can only use 10 plugins on the 11th one a message pops up saying that's the limit. I was told that I would need to purchase the UAD-2 Satellite Thunderbolt 3 OCTO. Another $1699.00!!!! That's when I stopped buying anymore UA products. I'm not the only one that has these issues as another studio I do business with was experiencing the same thing. They sold their UA set up and purchase Antelope interfaces. And your comparison to AVID is spot on. Left the Pro Tools money pit a long time ago moving to Studio One and never looked back. When I purchased the Apollo's I tried Luna which was ok but it reminded me of Pro Tools. The work flow in Studio One is so much better for me. Right now I'd have to say Audient iD44 is a great interface but only 4 channels which can expand to 20 channels with ADAT. Wish they would make an 8 or 12 channel interface with Thunderbolt 3. As far as plugins UA has some great ones, one reason I made the move but if I had to do it all over again knowing what I know now, I would not have made the move. Thank you again for everything you do and have a great day. Stay safe and may God bless 🙏✝️
I just ordered a UAD Apollo 6 from Sweetwater because they are throwing in a FREE L22 mic which is $1200. So that s getting the Apollo 6 for $1100. Even though that's a smoking deal, I am starting to think maybe it's overkill as I am buying a new MacbookPro with M2 chip. My Focusrite Clarret 8 pre is maxed out so need another 8 ports and was going to use ADAT to connect to the Apollo 6. Now I am wondering if I should cancel order and buy a used focusrite. This stuff confuses the tar out of me.
@@director2bob I have 2 Apollo's x8 I would have made you a good deal on. I'm going back to my RME UFX Fireface. It has never let me down but it wasn't Thunderbolt 3. That's the only reason I changed. Good luck either way you go with the new interface. Sweetwater is the best place to do business. Stay safe my friend and may God bless 🙏✝️🙏
I completely agree with this entire video. I have been with universal for years Apollo 8, 8x, Octo satellite, Quad satellite x2, I also own 95% of all their plugins. I am currently demoing the Antelope Orion32 HD with Protools Ultimate and I am completely in love. I believe I made my decision plus I own most of the Plugin Alliance catalog sooo... Bye UA ✌🏾
I agree. An m1 and a Scarlett is all you need. I invested in UAD interface and a satellite several years ago and was disappointed to see that I need to invest in at least 2 more satellites to run at least 10 plugins... their processors or like dial up internet... I rarely use them. I went ahead and invested in an Avalon and an i7 Mac mini with 32gb... runs incredible. I jumped on the M1 MacBook Pro with 16gb... It’s a beast... somehow these guys are still debating... ???
I went with antelope audio instead of UAD, and while it does sound amazing. The thing broke (I don’t travel with it, it broke on its own) just sitting on my desk and would glitch out all the time. I sent it in for repair. Took SIX MONTHS. I get it back and they said it wasent even broken. Well sure enough not even 5mins into me testing it, it starts to glitch up. They’re sending me a brand new one, but just my own personal experience, and I am not pleased with them. So keep that in mind maybe if you’re thinking of choosing one of they’re products.
I’ve heard of problems in the past, hum, I thought that had been dealt with. Sounds like no. What was the issue?
I own a Antelope Zentour..it's been rock solid for 3 years so far..their plugins are AWWWWSOME!!
@@BarryJohns sadly nothing but the interface (as in the buttons on the device, I believe 😭) The audio worked just fine, but it would cycle through inputs on its own, changing the audio from my mains to my second pair of speakers. It would freak out an fly all up and down the volume spectrum. You could over ride this issue by using there software to control there device. The problem is there software is just as glitchy, and half the time it doesn’t even wanna read the device in its own program…it’s such a shame because I really enjoy the sound and feel. But I don’t think I’ll be getting another one sadly
First of all you’re like the Kelsey Grammar of audio engineering. 😂
Secondly, 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾 Well said!
I’ve been so far enjoying your content. Much respect to you and Universal Audio.
Months later they have UAD Spark. Awesome.
it wil be a while. The combo of UA plugs and unison pre amp for home and project studios are a win , means UA can catch em young lol
I got the Apollo Twin and can barely run five of the new plugins in it. I was planning to get a satellite but then I realised that it would barely scratch the surface for what I need. Now after seeing this video, no way I am buying a Sattelite when I have a Threadripper that can run so many Plugin Alliance, Waves, Softube plugins. Amazing analysis btw. Subbed.
This is REALLY interesting. You make a TON of amazing points and you really made me rethink my studio. As you were speaking I have to admit, I thought deeply and I panned back and forth from my UA 1176LN in my input section over to the Apollo Twin Quad Core that transports the summed mix from my Heritage Audio MCM-32 into my iMac, which by the way, you made me really want an M1 system now! And I felt a little bit betrayed by UA. I spent what is to someone like me a good deal of money because I didn't believe the cloned hardware would be as good as the original stuff and I wanted to stay in the curve as long as I could but in 2 short years it seems it is now behind the curve. With all that said, do we just keep replacing all this stuff? Is it really that detrimental to still use it? There are so many developments in audio technology but is it really a major factor in a world where Spotify uses ACC which even isn't as good of a format as Redbook Audio which is older than I am? I'm not making points at all I'm curious and asking real questions. I'm a new subscriber and I really like what you're doing.
I believe the Apollo Twin with the UAD preamps is a good thing to have. We cannot deny the quality of the Apollo preamp and their preamp emulations.
I was searching for something unrelated, but this video was too good to pass up leaving a comment. Great video.
Thanks
This video was perfect - like you were yelling directly at me haha. Barry, what would you suggest for someone running an M1 machine that needs a top notch interface to build a studio around? 16 channels minimum to start, hopefully able to easily daisy chain and expand to 24+ sometime in the near future.
Apogee symphony desktop
First off let me say that I am a user of universal audio products. I’ve had their UAD card in my computer for a number of years and am very happy with its performance. Now with that being said, you are dead on point. With the advent of the M1, and the M1 X which is coming very shortly, I think the roadmap for universal audio and the SOC style chip is definitely A thinkable way to go. I also think that the plug-in alliance bundle is definitely a great product, which I also have myself. It is well thought out, and the plug-ins are just damn good.
Great video, and well thought out. 👍🏽✌🏽
5:20 Similar, if not better?? No, they are the exact SAME. PA and UAD use the same code. The plugins even null. (Go watch some Paul Third videos)
Then at 11:20 asking them to make their plugins work without DSP when there is already PA doing that exact thing..
I think your video sheds light on the issue but without linking that UAD and PA are the same plugins, you missed some major opportunities to drive the point home even further.
(Yes I know not all plugins that UAD offers is also offered by PA but many are)
What camera did u film this with? It’s crystal clear
ua has done native plugins. I think they may port their stuff to native but here's the catch. The native Ua plugins will be Luna only. This has already started with the tape and console extensions in Luna.
Hey Barry I known this is a older video but I want you know your thoughts on the Antelope Zen Series interfaces
Antelope has outstanding conversion and clocking. Users seems to love or hate them for stability. You can find as many horror stories as praises from users which seem to be driver issues. They are a very good value compared to what they give you “if” they work well for you.
So based on that, and I hate saying it, I can’t recommend them. If they could develop a consistent user experience, I’d be all over them.
When I made the switch away from ProTools, HDX, my stability for decades has been nothing but flawless for the most part. That system is a system that once you get it working, leave it alone, for years and years, just leave it alone, and it’ll work, and you’ll never think about any issues. So I was not willing to gamble on that when I made the move away. This is the main reason I went with an RME interface, which, for decades, now has been known as the most stable drivers available. granted, you can get a lot more bang for the buck with antelope interfaces, however, stability is incredibly important to me.
Who knows, you could be one of the lucky ones and have zero issues, but if you’re not, you will regret the decision.
Yeah. I am SO GLAD I sold my Satellite with my Plugins altough I lost a lot of money. Buying into the UAD System about 10 month ago was one of the most costly mistake I ever made. Their system of hardware/plugins and that you can't sell the plugins separately is close to a scam. Not that they are bad, but compared to the competition, it is REDICULOUS. So glad I am OUT of that system!
I didn’t take this heart felt video literally.
Hopefully most didn’t…
Maybe moving into the future is an “and” model, versus an “or”? I love offsetting HW resources to the device versus my computer. They all behave too differently.
But yep… that M1, & now M2 on the horizon is a tell tale sign that all vendors should factor into design.
We all understand pivoting is not easy, but more alternatives, especially when you’re one of the best “should” be easier. Sticking with what works, until it doesn’t is all too common. I want to say you’re the last to know for whatever reason. (You’re not… 🤔)
Working for a huge company and observing the attempt to pivot what seems to be an ocean liner just ‘ain’t easy. (Despite all the signs and alarms going off.)
On that note… I love the video. It resonated with other aspects in business and not literally UA. (And you nailed that big word 😂👊🏽)
Thx for sharing with us Barry.
In my experience, DSP has a place, and that place is tracking. I own Carbon, two TDM HD rigs, Antelope, and Apollos, as well as two M1 Macs and a newer Mac Pro. Yes, computers are powerful these days, but still not where they need to be to replace that experience. it's also true that some native developers are catching up in quality to UA (that's been their target for nearly two decades). Excluding the LUNA path, in my opinion there are two reasons to have an Apollo-based setup: reliable low latency performance at any stage in the production, and access to the UAD plugins. I own most PA, some SoundToys, all Waves, some Softube, SSL, some Slate, Arturia, etc., but I have not found a better version of any of the real classic studio staples: 1176, API 2500, LA2A, 1073, Studer, Ampex, 175b, etc.
Luke I said, some of their plugins TODAY still remain king! But it’s only a handful when looking at all the plugins they offer. They don’t update their plugins, the sharp processors they run on are over 15 years old, I hate to tell you this, but I’ve been tracking through plugins, and I mean heavy plugins in dense mixes on PT HD Native on a 2009 MacPro with a buffer of 32 with not noticeable latency for years now.
My first test of my entry level MacBook Air for gods sake was with 125 tracks at a 32 buffer all with three intensive eq/compression/reverb plugins I record mode for over 30 minutes until I said enough is enough.
@@BarryJohns Hey Barry, it's Matt Hepworth. Obviously, we've interacted a long time (decade or more) on GS and the DUC. I've been in a similar boat and have a couple hot rodded 2009 Mac Pros as well. As you know, HD Native is MUCH higher latency than any of the options we've mentioned here (3.5ms at 44.1 with 32 buffer and HD I/O). Not gonna cut it for getting to that magic 2ms amount that minimizes comb filtering for vocalists.
I've owned two HD Native systems and HDX as well. Latency is just too high. Carbon is king when it comes to latency, but only thanks to the DSP. HDX is much higher (1.85ms at 44.1 without any plugins). Carbon with plugins can stay sub 2ms -- even with eleventh hour punch ins. BTW, with HDN I had to use LLM to do those same punch ins, which meant patching in a hardware reverb and setting up a cue on the analog console. Pretty good vibe killer. ;-)
The problem is there aren't any great versions of the studio staples that are AAX DSP and, unfortunately, we have to scratch the great sounding Purple MC77 from Brainworx because it adds 2ms by itself. The SHARC DSPs are old, but still viable, just like the HD and soon HDX chips. That's really the beauty of the Apollo tracking scenario. You have to be at 96kHz to approach Carbon's latency specs, but you can do it with the best versions of those studio staple plugins available. That's why I use it (often through ADAT into Carbon, in fact).
BTW, the other latency king is QUANTUM with Studio One. 1.2ms at 44.1kHz with 16 buffer (PT minimum from the extra buffering is 2.68ms, which is still faster than HDN). When 3.5 launched I recorded all 27ins for 30 minutes at a buffer of 16 samples(!) with plugins throughout. This was on a 2012 MBP with an i7. Of course, the same wasn't true when going for eleventh hour overdubs...
Nothing's perfect, unfortunately.
@@MattHepworth Matt, much respect!! Know I am not knocking at all the amazing plugins that UAD makes, they do have stiff competition today, not on every plug-in when comparing performance wise, but sound-wise, hum, that being said, performance is king.
My gripe is NOT with UAD, it’s with the fact that Universal Audio has gone Too FAR as a company in stretching the life out of VERY old tech! Waaaaaaay to far!
That being said, I would be interested in doing something with you talking about this and other things in a video centric way!
@@BarryJohns Totally understandable. Sure, let's get in touch!
@@levondarratt787 it’s interesting that you say that, I have a video coming out on that very topic.
Preach it, Barry! I don't do a lot of work - my main client is my own imagination; yes, I'm educated in this craft. However, I own a spanking brand new 27" iMac, running Logic Pro through a Focusrite 18i20, and I cannot find one single reason to spend another dollar. My DAW-vs-computer platform offers me perpetual compatibility, along with a plethora of plugins and a sweet library of virtual instruments. Am I missing something? In my mind, if I can't get it done with my present rig, I never will. It's not about gear - it's all about hands-on winning and failing, hard work, and a 'never-say-die' attitude.
I agree with every point even though i am highly invested in UAD for a long time. The only thing that speaks for the dsp sollution is the tracking without latency and the unison feature but i am also sure that latency is going to be a non issue with native plugins in the future or it might already be so, i havent tried as im using UA..:-) i love UA products as well but i agree that the sharc tecnology is ancient and forces people to by more dsp cores than they should have to. And its also really expensive. And something else that bothers me alot is that UA is one of few manufacturers that havent released native suport for apple silicon for their products almost a year later..
One of the best videos i´ve seen so far. And its one year old. I think you are right. I will sell my UAD stuff, although i m a big fan of some of the plugins like the preamps in the unison slot and the ocean way room simulation AND Luna. But these are things i will replace with other components to make music. Thanks sir ✌🏻
With UA adding Luna "extensions" of their UAD plugins that run on native CPU, you can definitely see them going in the direction of native plugins. The M1 chips truly are revolutionary. Can't wait to see what happens with the next generation of them (which should be released soon).
I think Luna is their way, of keeping customers locked into their ecosystem instead of going full native, or upgrading their chipsets.
For me they could go full native at least on their oldest plug-ins, or give more legacy/old plug-ins for free to people using Luna, like the precision line, and keep the unison ones for DSP.
But everything seems slow, no updates for 3rd party collaborations, no hi-res GUI, prices are ridiculous for older products.
I love everything I got from UAD, but going back in time I wouldn't walk that path again, there are better plug-ins, or many as good, loads of converters to choose.
Same here on this Macbook Air M1 Base model I'm typing on right now. Studio One Native M1 now and I'm blown away.
I agree, I bought an Apollo 8 in 2016 when dsp was still a good thing and plugins were priced all the same, via very expensive.
Computers were capable back then with no external dsp but there really wasn't anything that could top unison technology.
Then Slate came out with his Neve preamp model plugin that could do everything including no latency on recording without using any hardware. His were way less expensive.
At the same time Waves went from Uad prices to like $40 a plugin.
Now I just got sick of the pc Protools and downloaded the free Cakewalk.
Besides a few Waves plugins I have not used any of my Uad plugins because cakewalk has it all.
Besides UAD unison plugins are huge and you can't use many. They don't need to be that huge.
So for now I use Uad hardware and plugins for recording only no mixing.
When that hardware becomes outdated I don't plan on buying Uad.
Too pricey and come on Uad give pc users Luna. You are neglecting pc users and there are many of us.
I couldn't agree more. I'll buy in once plugins run native.
My worry is that once UAD update their chips, all my UAD gear will become obsolete.
it is already obsolete imo. The UAD DSPs are nothing more than a dongle to allow you to run UA plugs if you have a relatively recent processor.
@@cubitusjr.doublepattes4634 yup it's been 10 years... Intel is just realizing that can't keep producing bad chips, AMD has been constantly dominating and Apples new m1 chips are incredibly fantastic. At a minimum there should have a been an update with the technology, but there hasn't... UAD is not worth it, the alternatives are far better
I agree with you man. I must say though that we just invested so much money in UA. I totally see what you’re saying now after I’ve had this gear about a year now. My best friend is a producer and he uses PLAlliance and masterworx religiously. Cool vid. I subscribed!
Respectfully, while I agree with much said in the video (even though I run 2 large UA Facebook groups) I am one who does print while recording - and that means using a DSP based interface works well. I do 'not' use DSP based plugins for most mix processing. Just a few choice UA plugins along with many 3rd party native plugins. (I actually removed a UA OCTO Satellite from my setup and will probably sell it in the near future.) But again, when tracking in real time - even with my powerful 12 core Mac Pro - using DSP/FPGA processing in real time while not having to change buffer settings or sample rates is a big advantage. Not so much when mixing.
I use a focusrite scarlett, and i5 8th gen laptop...i can get upto 3ms of latency when tracking with 3 plugins....ig the mac can get wayyy lesser that is basically neglegable compared to dsp. So is it worth really worth it?
Pretty much same here. I use the SSL strip to tape...throw an LA2A or 1176 on the busses when needed, and I put the G Compressor on my master bus. That's pretty much it. I track realtime and coming from the Scarlett 18i20 it's lightyears ahead.
@@dwaaaiii8757 If you try the UAD and experience the difference yourself...you'll finally understand.
@@dwaaaiii8757 Respectfully - you're saying you achieve 3 ms of 'round trip' latency through your DAW on an i5 with a USB based Scarlett at 44.1 kHz? (Focusrite's site doesn't report numbers that low.) Further - to do so - you would need to lower the buffer setting to it's minimum - forcing your machine to work extremely hard. With a DSP based audio interface - you can work at 1024 buffer if needed and even at 44.1 kHz you can monitor thru plugins at lower than 1 ms.
@@chevaliermusic the i5 will allow you to record at 64 on the buffer setting if you have decent ram…but mixing at that resolution can be a nightmare when you have a lot of plugins running. It’s a bad trade off
What are people doing where they need to worry about this DSP issue? As a professional recording musician for the last few years, I use an Apollo Twin and still don't know much about DSP and all of that stuff. I'm just happy to be able to record without latency and use plugins that I wouldn't usually use. Now I'm picking up the VOLT 1 to track my vocals when away from the home rig. All these extra specs are for engineers and such, musicians who record don't care about all of that as long as they can still mix and release to the masses. My Steinberg and behringer failed me multiple times. My Apollo has been flawless from day one. Like you said, the majority of folks don't need it to track vocals so that's the lane I'm speaking from. Others have other perspectives and I respect that.
Uad native option would be great 👍.
These are some great points. I need to get me an M1....lol. But I just spent so much money this year on equipment....here we go again!
When truth speaks the heart listens, thank you Sir for all your insights.
Also what could have worked is if they stop the silly mixer teases and actually release something like the presonus mixer or what Behringer has created with onboard dsp if they want to milk it, instead of releasing pedals
Man this hits right on point for me! I’ve always wanted to go with a UAD interface and try out the echo system. Probably at least twice a year I consider it, but every time I think about it, it comes down to me being discouraged by all the compatibility issues I read and the lack of speed to keep up with technology like the M1. The lack of being able to function with other technology like OBS, zoom, and iOS. So it’s always hard for me to buy in. Thus why I’ve gone with Apogee since it seems like they are keeping up with the changing technology around them.
Let me ease your mind a bit...I took a while to decide because I thought just like you did. Then I took the plunge about 2 months ago now with a new Apollo Twin X. It's awesome. Contrary to what you've apparently heard, it does work very well with OBS & Zoom. I haven't tried with iOS. But from my experience it does work great with Big Sur. I can't speak to M1 chips either, because I'm running a 2019 MacBook Pro, before the M1 chips. Apogee is great for some stuff. I prefer the sound, plugins, and everything about the functionality of the Apollo though. It's awesome.
My Apollo X systems work wonderful with my new m1 Mac and pro tools. No issues. None.
My Apollo X systems work wonderful with my new m1 Mac and pro tools. No issues. None.
My Apollo X systems work wonderful with my new m1 Mac and pro tools. No issues. None.
My Apollo X systems work wonderful with my new m1 Mac and pro tools. No issues. None. Keep in mind though. You’re definitely going down a rabbit hole and you definitely need to be prepared to pay outrageous prices for some of their plug-ins. You’re going to want the plug-ins. You’re going to love them after you demo them and then you’re going to spend thousands on plug-ins. UAD knows this, and they capitalize off of it. Plug-in alliance stuff is amazing for the price. Not quite UAD.. but I still use them every day and couldn’t do without them. Same with slate digital. What I can say for sure though, is that the UAD distressor plug-in is the only plug-in that sounds EXACTLY.. and I mean 100% identical to my hardware distressor. Some of the other distressor emulations sound Great! there’s nothing wrong with them, but if what you want is a plug-in that basically is exactly the same as hardware, you have to go UAD. Same with their 1176 and LA2A. I love the slate stuff, I love the plugin alliance stuff but nothing gives me the feeling of using real analog gear like the UAD stuff does. UAD plug-ins really are the closest to the real gear. But having plug-ins that sound exactly like hardware isn’t necessarily important for everyone. Personally, I love the sound of hardware.. so UAD is my best bet for vocal compressors, EQ, and mix bus stuff. But I mixed great mixes Without owning any UAD products for years. You don’t need UAD! But once you do get UAD.. and if you’re used to/or you love hardware... you’re going to appreciate UAD and you’re not gonna want to do without them.
Very interesting perspective as I have had zero issue with having my limits with running UA Plugins with its Duo core DSP processor / not being able to use them without the interface. Never saw this angle as DPS never bothered me, if anything it helped me when my computers didn’t have the power and even now my 2019 intel MacBook Pro I still prefer having the DSP than not. I’d love to see a new “modern” interface with the updated chipset as I’m all about the power for the dollar. I truly loved this video and it opened my eyes to “problems” we have within the hardware side of these companies that I never really put together as my Apollo, and everyone else’s, is essentially another computer dedicated for audio processing. Why is it that your videos inspire me to make my own when I can’t find inspiration anywhere else!?! Seriously great video, great perspective, no hate at all, new window to look through, thanks Barry!
Thanks Nick, I appreciate your comments!
I think UAD should never go Subscription base. They separate the boys from the mens. And also I love the fact that the plugins process on the Shark cards and not your CPU. But I totally understand your view and where you coming from partner.
Since we have to own UAD hardware, I felt UAD should have a rent to own opinions for it's customers.
"They separate the boys from the mens" Dp they really though? it's more of a rich kid vs poor kid situation, any engineer that actually knows what they are doing can make a radio ready song with Reaper, and I"d love to see a sure fire why to pointout what plugin company made the 1176 clone on a finished song.
Also even if that was true, it's kind of a shitty gate keeping mentality anyway, like if only selling point for your service over the kid usering reaper is that you have expensive plugin's/gear then you probably not that great of an engineer anyway.
Third party DSP hasn't made sense in 15 years. AVID or UA or whoever isn't making processors as well as Apple intel and AMD. The idea that I would overpay for inferior processors to run overpriced plugins that I can only run a few instances of bc they only run on those inferior processors is wild as fuk. Its not seperating men from boys or rich kids from poor kids. It's seperating the savy from the unsavy. Spec or build an appropriate maschine and run a fast daw..... now... if you're Andrew Scheps or some shit and you mix number one albums... then you can do all sorts of shit that doesn't make sense and my two cents means gots.
@@EDAPE you’re dead on. The people who have a hard on for defending UA’s shitty practices are either too invested in their ecosystem or are shills, because there’s no reason why it should be so restricted. If I want to take my laptop to a friends house and collaborate, I have to take an entire interface with me to use some plug-ins? What a joke
@@ACDevastation yea man. It's marketing and anti piracy. A gaint key fob.
Great video Barry! I'm a producer/composer that mainly writes for production librarys. I have the old Apollo Twin Duo and a Satellite Octocore. And a couple thousand dollars of UA plug-ins. I still absolutely love my Apollo twin, but I barely ever turn on my satellite octocore. I havent bought any new UA plugins in a few years now. I really only use UA plugins to track guitars and basses. From my perspective I really wish UA would make some more visually modern and creative plugins. Don't get me wrong I love their emulations but if I reach for an EQ or compressor after tracking, the first one I go with is fabfilter. For mastering or widening its iZotope. But I'm not an engineer, I'm a producer and I need results quick and plugins that are intuitive and creative from a producer's perspective. I really hope they will consider this. Cheers!
Great points! At least their whole precision bundle should have been free.
I'm pretty sure that UA is acutely aware of the issues raised here. I initially gave you a thumbs down because you came off a bit strong, but I stuck with you and have to agree with alot of what you said. Times are changing. Exponential change is disruptive.
Why thumb down while you are agree? I gave you a thumb down!
Yea I agree with this. I actually upgraded from a Focusrite 2i2 to the Apollo Twin X which is great and I enjoy that the UAD plugins use DSP but I did not know that they couldn't be used without the apollo. I just knew UAD had a good interface and good plugins. I was under the assumption that the plugins work on a computer normally and an added benefit of getting the interface would be offloading the processing. The plugins I like the most for mixing are UAD actually and I do like the unison preamp tech, but just looking at the plugins, the prices are insane. For myself, I just wanted to upgrade my interface but now by buying some UAD plugins it's like I'm locked into this system that I didn't even realize existed at first
LUNA is a reflection of what UAD believes is the future. Modeling analog workflows from the past. We are always being told that we need to "glue" our mixes better, and introduce "saturation" like the tape machines of the past. Sure, OK - but at the UAD price of entry it's really difficult to compete. And does UAD literally do those things better than everyone else? More importantly, who are we as musicians when we attempt to impress anyone other than the listener with our recordings? Who are we really recording for? People who want to hear our music will NEVER complain about "warmth" and "analog" and any other technical feature of how recordings are made. Either they like the song, or they don't (within reason, of course). With UAD, there is always a cap on everything - either not enough hardware, or far too expensive plugins. I sure wish I had a rack of 8xp's and all their plugins though! ha ha
I hate to say this as despise the company but acustica audio > UAD....
Sold my Apollo and left PT for the same exact reason, now i switched to Ableton + Studio One, bought an Antelope interface and use Plugin Alliance and Softube
Never been happier
Man I got the apollo x6 and I heard the converters on the antelope I was blown away how balance it sounded and nice lows which antelope you got you ? Also use a rupert neve mic pre I dont use uad pres.which rackmount you think I should get ?
At the time I purchased my Apollo I thought it change everything sound wise, but I always use vast majority PA, Sound Toys, and Softube plug-ins these days. Haven't purchased a UA plugin in years regardless of the sales because they still don't discount anywhere near enough. THERE IS NO REASON TO PAY THAT MUCH FOR PLUGINS ANYMORE PERIOD!! UA plugs absolutely sound fantastic, but UA as with Waves has lost the "WOW" factor for me. ...But I'd rather UA just keep doing what they are doing rather than put out gimmicky crap like Waves does these days.
They do not get updated. The price fairly compares with Waves ripoff yearly update. I did not mind paying for them. I now see them aging and am a bit sad
I find the softube stuff to be outstanging. Some native plugs I can't put down... Empirical Labs stuff, Eventide stuff and TC electronic stuff.
I do not find UA plugins overly expensive…if one purchases them wisely. UA has numerous periods every year where they deeply discount their products. UA does not I,pose a subscription model on their customers…which is very important to me. I prefer to own my plugins (which can be resold if one desires) and not be forced to pay tribute to the developer every year.
I think everything else is okay except the price points of the hardware and plugins. I just bought an satellite octo and an apollo twin and it’s actually nice to use the plugins without increasing the latency on my projects
Exactly
@@BarryJohns but I don’t think we should get rid of the dsp processing, I just think it should be way cheaper
@@ValenteVillanuevaMusic Well, I guess I'd ask why you feel you'd like to continue with DSP when its simply not needed anymore if you have a modern well built/spec'd computer that today can be had for around 1k with the M1 Macs as an example?
I guess, I'm more curious why people feel they still need it today? I get it if a person does not own a powerful computer, then of course it's needed. UA gear is extremely expensive for what you get. It makes a lot more sense to buy a stronger computer vs an 8 Core Satellite unit as an example that only has about 5% of the processing of an M1 Mac, but the same cost.
I've been recording without latency for years and years, tracking through plugins, overdubbing at anytime, without ever paying attention to latency because for me its been a thing of the past for a while now. That was all on a very expensive MacPro, but today, for 1k or so, you can buy a computer that smokes it......Hum?
Its like people still buying basic calculators when you have incredible ones on your phone, computer, etc?
@@BarryJohns because even though the processor can handle it, every plugin will add latency to the project and that will add up and be a pain in the ass in the final stages of the project where it takes half a second between they press on a keyboard and for the pc to play it. Uad plugins don’t add that latency as they are processed separately in the cards. + its good to have some extra power. Nevertheless this is not worth all the money they are asking for this but I think dsp is a cool concept. I have the new alder lake intel i7 12700k which is currently more powerful than the m1 and I still run out of power on some of my projects so anyway it’s good to have some extra power with the dsp. But yes, the price is ridiculous.
@@ValenteVillanuevaMusic that what you have latency compensation for in your DAW. Try not to confuse that with CPU latency which is caused by many factors, most of which is how fast can the CPU process the 1’s to 0’s then from 0’s to 1’s. It’s the round trip that has historically been the issue.
Plug-in latency is more a track alignment issue in the timeline than an audible one when tracking. It’s in playback when this is an issue historically, albeit not for a very long time.
Your Delay Compensation in your DAW makes sure that everything gets placed in your timeline properly. This has not been an issue as it was addressed many years ago in all DAW’s.
CPU latency affects the delay of the audible signal when you are recording. This is what we are talking about.
What i think should happen, and this is my opinion, is Apple should buy UAD, and integrate the apollo lineup into their ecosystem, probably upgrade the Shark chip with a M1 based processor and integrate Luna and Logic into a Frankendaw with the best of both world.
HA! Great thinking outside the box! lol. As an Apple user since 1999, that could be awesome!.
This video is spot on. There are a lot of choices that are affordable and produce a quality result. Avid, UA, Waves etc are behind the curve at this point. I wish they would produce levels of products that address all the price points. and STOP the subscription crap! People want to buy something and own it for good not rent something. UA is quality but if no one can afford it or be able to expand their systems without spending $3k on a unit, what's the point? It's 2021 and its time to rethink the future.
I use an M1 system, and even though it’s killer, most of my plugins and DAWs run in intel mode, which does eat up my CPU/RAM like crazy, I can only have a few instances of a plug-in alliance channel strip before a crash, so until everything goes native with M1, DSP does offer me a work around… for now at least, there is still an argument for DSP… but the real solution is move everything to silicon native rather than cling to the DSP bandaid
even in intel mode if you can't run more than a few instances of a PA channel strip on a M1 there's definitely a bug/something wrong! contact PA support if you can, I don't think that's an argument for DSP, just a bug.
Barry, I REALLY enjoy how you get all emotional about that subject. I am the same way, so kudos to you! I just wrote an Email to Plugin alliance about their constant "SALE SALE SALE" strategy which I really despise. What do you think about that? And btw I really love their plugins!
Add the unsizable plugins to the equation.
Wow you took the words right out of my mouth.
I have a UAD satellite firewire. I’m going to be upgrading to an apple M1 Max studio.
Apparently UAD is not going to support the satellite anymore. I get it it’s fire wire but at least when I had my trashcan Apple computer, I was able to just plug the FireWire 800 into an adapter that changed it to thunderbolt and it worked fine. Now they’re not gonna support it at all and I get it it’s time to MoveOn but I’ve spent thousands of dollars through UAD and they’re not gonna support it anymore I call BS !
I went through that same situation with waves I went to do a project and Collett my waves plug-ins and waves turned around and said oh you need to update you need to spend $250 more for your update. I was like I just dropped like $1000 on this stuff are you serious. Now when I called tech-support they basically told me yeah sorry dude that’s the way it is. I’m done!
Your content is distasteful and delivery uninspiring.
Yep. Incredibly jerk like.
Blurring the lines between opinion and condescending.
I disagree. Don’t watch if you don’t like it.
@@larryseyer agree to disagree. You have to watch something first to find out if you like it or not by the way..
✌️
🥰🥰🥰 I am loving you sir ,you are like me you say the truth, its only sad that our generation dont have people saying the truth again.. I still follow the old pattern of life that is why I appreciate you.
You should have a podcast Barry
Thanks I was looking into a new interface and this vid was very helpful.
Inspiring video! It's a year later and I think UA listened! I wondered what was going on with the new plugin subscription (they even a gave me a couple for free!) from the evangelists of DSP hardware emulation! Stinks for all of us who brought into the system- I own a Satellite and Apollo Duo but I stopped buying new plugins a few years back as it was breaking my wallet and ticking off my better half. Another vendor is Sound Toys resting on their laurels- same products for way too many years -but at least they don't cost a small fortune. Pretty cool about the Macs as I didn't realize the full impact of the M1. I'm a PC guy (upgraded to a $4000 monster March 2022) and therefore more comfortable with a PC but I have used a modern Mac and really the learning curve isn't that bad. Once you get into the app pretty much the same. So maybe my next PC will be a Mac 🙂 I'm old dog at 61 but always up for new tricks lol!
That made my day when you said, "Shiotttt!'
You are decent and fair!!
You are speaking on my behalf and I think we all need to move on and leave the big names behind.
The underdogs are the key to success and then they become the Top Dog and at that point, we will bet on the next UNDERDOG!!
Universal Audio, you do need to up the ante... I am in total agreement with Barry regarding your antiquated technology. I was an early adopter of your plugins from inception, but now there are other companies that are running laps around your products. I do love your hardware 610's and 6176's (even though it is probably another division of UA) I collectively have 5 of these units in my studio.
I like this. I invested in UAD a few years back. I am very happy with their platform and plugins. The price though is ludicrous considering the offerings from other companies nowadays. I don't jive with Plugin Alliance (with a few exceptions) but Softube's and even a few other companies offerings are incredible. To me it is hard to say "better" because it is all subjective and we have our own individual uses for a plugin. But the price being what it is and the "sales" UAD has lowering it to ~$100 a plugin if you bundle is crazy making it a pretty easy choice. On top of that, if they did something crazy like a subscription model or lower there prices where they should be I would feel a bit bummed cause I spent a lot on them. Curious what they have in store for the future. I want them to succeed too. I am a hobbyist that invested pretty heavily in them buying 2 interfaces already. I love tracking with the FX it makes a huge difference to me which is why I lean towards UAD.
I'm a UAD user and I agree with what you're saying.. Now with Mac's M1 processor the need for additional DSP for plugins will become obsolete unless they upgrade their chips. The thing is that for now that I'm running an old Intel Mac so it makes sense as if I'd still be living in 2018. After I upgrade to an M1 then I'm sure it won't make sense to spend money on UAD if they don't upgrade they're hardware and plugins. I also agree with the clone gear comment as well.
I totally agree with you on all points about UHD. I feel the antelope Audio and his truly forward to working with their approach, and in recent years, they have fixed many of their service issues. I think that they are currently the best “interface with DSP” companies on the market.
Thanks
I was looking into UAD products appreciate the 1176 and others Thanks
I sold all my uad cards, and Avid 192 hd. Now with PA, brainworxs, and slate, I´m very happy.
Luna and + uad unison is sooo dope! Love this running system, using Neve 1084 without any latency, perfectly matched with this amazing sounding Apollo solo. I’m not a fanboy, I’m not working for uad but this is just my experience. I don’t use all the plugins. Some are quite similar to other much cheaper ones but some are extraordinary. Manley, Neve, Summing, Luna for Stem mixing. Great and well engineered system, with a long history of amazing hardware etc! Don’t forget how many plugins are based on these developers back in the 50‘s etc. this is not for everybody but cheap is not always the best way in life. People forgetting to pay for quality and that you don’t need everything for nothing. It’s better to have only what you really need!
I remember my Mac, always gave me the sound I wanted
I noticed everyone is silent on the massive memory leaks and crashes on m1 macs.
Well just to update. Under Monterey memory usage meter has dropped from 139% to 19% with the same project . So some improvement there.
As someone looking to make some home studio purchases in the near future I enjoy these videos. There are so many options out there these days. I like you industry insights and discussion as far as the trends and trajectories of various companies. What kind of work do you do if you don't mind my asking? I would guess you are in product development? Keep it up!
I’m actually in the Hospitality industry. Check me out on LinkedIn
I waited and waited for USB solutions on their products, it never came and now I am a very happy RME user instead 🤘😎👍
Joyful tears in my eyes UAD, really, never seen a big company respond humbly to a review video. ❤UAD. My respect for you has increased immensely. Thank you.
Got Christmas money so I was finally going to get some top knotch plugins. Went to UAD's pick 10 for $1,000, until I realized you had to have hardware like you mentioned that standard being around for longer than most (me) of us have been alive. Needless to say Plugin Alliance per month deal, NoiseAsh preamp collection, Softtube Bundle for what around $500 is a much better option😎
This was a great rant - it's kinda convinced me to sell off my Apollo and go with all the stuff I've gotten in the latest IK group buy and a Clarett interface
When I upgraded my MOTU 896HD last year (it only stopped working properly on Catalina OS), I initially bought a UAD x8p and it sounded nice and all, but it actually got pretty hot. I ended up getting up an Antelope Orion. Their interface is a little obtuse, but I've been happy with it. And the clarity and stereo imaging is better to me.
I don't think their model will necessarily go away. There are still large console manufacturers etc and I think there will always be a higher end available. Generally people won't change what they use once they're in an ecosystem, no matter who it's from.
The truth of the matter is that I like the idea of offloading plug-in consumption from my computer. UAD’s system offers that, but your points are spot on. It’s one reason I haven’t gotten into UAD (yet?) personally. I’m curious what you’re talking about regarding not needing DSP in the future, that will be a game changer!
The new M1 Macs as well as recent AMD/INTEL CPU’s in the last six months have changed so much and offer incredible power that the majority of people simply don’t need DSP anymore.
My advice is to spend that money on a new highly specd’ M1 Mac, it will get you much further than UAD’s incredibly low power DSP for todays tech.
You’re so right! UAD been sleeping 😴
You're the best, Barry! Thanks 🙏
Great opinion . I remember back in the day when Focusrite had their pre amps in the Mbox lol. The Preamps were worth more than the $ of the Mbox.
Preach it brother! 👏🏾
I WAS going to go down the path but I was too put off by the prices. Glad I made that decision. Thanks for confirming with this video.
I realized this a few months ago. U are 100% correct.
Right there with you, been doing this for 40 years too. Working in Hardware/Software development just as long. The only constant in technology is change! I love my UA hardware and Software, I also agree they need to update with the times, I left ProTools 6 years ago and switched to Presonus Studio One, (love Presonus). I finally am getting rid of my old keyboards, and other musical and studio out dated stuff too. I really hope UA stays around a long, long time.