UA Apollo vs the Competition - Converters Only Discussion
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- Опубликовано: 3 ноя 2024
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I went from rme to uad and have been pleased. They’re pretty close with the edge going to uad because of their rich history in the business. If you can’t make great music with uad, you’re the problem not your conversion.
I went through the video(s) Barry's talking about there's multiple! The reason in the end for the Mixing Music Analog guy getting rid of his Apollo's is because he can get back some cash from selling them and switching to the cheaper Presonus. I just wanted to say Barry makes it seem like a choice based on quality, it wasn't, the conclusion is they're both great. There was literally NO difference in the mixes. I'm planning to go from an old firewire RME to an Apollo maybe x8 and I think it's a great choice, and will give me access to the UAD plugin platform, there's a couple of plugins I really love from them, I don't need the whole suite of plugins to be happy there
He didn't only get rid of the Apollos because he could get back cash, but also because he didn't noticed any difference in Conversation...
The more I dug into audio quality, comparing gear, hardware, software, different preamp, mics, converters and such, the more I believe that in 2022 it doesn’t really matter which audio interface you’re using. As long as it’s a decent medium range audio interface ($500 and higher), the converters will be good enough. Anything above the medium range will fall into the law of diminish returns.
The most important elements for recording:
Audio Source > Room > Mics > Preamp > Audio Interface
The most important elements for listening:
Ears > Room > Speaker > Audio interface
In both case, the audio interface come last and have a very small impact in overall quality. And this is only for the pure quality point of view, I don’t even talk about “creativity and production” values here. Don’t forget the tons and tons of album that were recorded on far less good gear back in the ‘60s, ‘70s, ‘80s or even ‘90s… Most of new medium range converters in Focusrite, Motu, Presonus, and such will be better than the old “high-end” converters we used in the ‘90s or ‘00s. Of course on higher range such Apollo, Antelope, RME, etc… you will get better converters, better clocking, etc… but the difference won’t be night and day, and won’t be as important as we can get between modern gear vs. old high-end gear. It shows how technologies evolved those last decades and made great gear accessible to more people.
Personally I’m looking at the new SSL Big SiX mixer that can replace audio interface, monitoring system, outboard gear. It’s 4 Pre with EQ & Comp, 4 Stereo Channels, 1 G Comp, 16 channels mix down and dual speaker, dual cue headphone… all that for $3k. And you can get two for $6k, cascade them to have 8 Pre with EQ & Comp, 8 stereo channels, 2 G Comp, 32 Channels mix down and 32 I/O in Logic with aggregate I/O… that’s a lot of features, if you want to work in Hybrid (ITB & OTB) workflow. No need for UA DSP…
My 2¢
When you get into this level at this point and time you're splitting hairs.
@@daviddavis9835 Marketing works to separate us from our money. Our time and money would be better spent making better music. But is a lo too fun to get new gear.. GAS!!!
Good 2 channel converters start around $100. If you spend more than that you should be getting more Utility and Versatility for your money unless you are buying purely for Boutique grade Sound Quality.
You're not wrong mate but you're also wrong :). Try listening to something like RME (any really but to heighten the contradiction maybe something like old like Fireface 800 or similar) on speakers like PSI A25m. Compare that to Crane Song Solaris or Avocet II or perhaps Mytek 8x192 or Burl DAC on the same speakers. You'll immediately notice that the Fireface is the bottleneck. Can you make records on it? Yeah. Would you want to listen to it day in/out? No. Not after you heard something like Mytek or Crane Song. Same goes for UAD et al. Mytek for example sounds like good, transparent, 30ips tape. It's that good. Nothing RME or UAD make can match that. But yeah you can work with it no problem. It won't get in the way of you composing your next track.
@@Screaming-Trees been there, done that... over 30 years of working in Studio here, used plenty of high end top dollars gear, and now I can tell that if you keep focusing on those converters, you clearly missing the whole point, missing the forest behind the tree...
Apollo conversion sounds great to me, they are about due for a new gen, I am sure it will improve again
A year later... still waiting for UA hardware updates
@@musiccreation1198just happened
RME all day for me.
great for usb but also bottlenecked by it...
@@kevinwilliams6006 Nonsense
I have the ucx which is all good for me expansion wise but it's still held to usb transfer speeds. Though usb is tried and true, it stillis much slower than the other options.
@@kevinwilliams6006 this is not at all true, it all comes down to the drivers, and RME writes the best drivers. Some of the lowest latency around and still on USB.
For budget AD/DA RME is the best 💕
Thank you my man 👍
I got a Presonus 1824c after hearing a comparison between it, RME and UAD.
The only reason I think I will upgrade is when I go over 16 in/out.
Nowadays, there are no more excuses, just get anything and get on with it.
Finally someone that admits that UA Conversion sucks for its price. Got a Symphony + an Internal UAD Quad PCI. Outstanding :D
I got to say... You just have that "IT" factor for making videos! Awesome! People can't help but like and watch you!
I appreciate that!
I bought an Apollo X8 a few years back, and it works. Looking back, I had no idea how much sizzle they use to sell their steak. Fact is, It gets the job done, but I have a friend With the Focusrite Red something or another and I wish I bought that. Similar price point but that thing is so freaking clean it is ridiculous. Seemed just better all around to me... And you don't constantly fight off the advertising with UA. They really just bombard you with the next plug in etc etc. I will keep what I have because money, lol, butI jumped in too fast for sure.
always cool to watch your videos!
David Vignola is awesome. Great teacher for beginners.
Man this is exactly the discussion I was hoping for!
Happy to help!
Great video Barry. I agree for those who are not already on the UAD platform should seriously consider whether or not to jump on board at this time based on many points you made. I would like share my perspective from a recent studio upgrade I am in the midst of now. Hopefully, it might help some of your viewers, who could be in a similar situation as me. I am moving from a Mac Pro 12 core (2010) to a brand new 2021 MacBook Pro 14" with the M1 Pro processor. As you have pointed out, these new computers are inclreadibly powerful and can run tons of native plugins, that in 2022 are very competitive quality wise with UAD. I had to have new converters to utilize my new MacBook Pro (coming over from an Apogee Rosetta 800 with an old Apogee Symphony card system), so I had to take some serious thought on my strategy. Being invested in UAD plugins (which I still love), I was not willing to completely give them up. I elected to get the Apollo Twin X as somewhat of a dongle to keep my UAD plugins along with a Focusrite ISA 828ii with the AD card. It allows me to have 8 additional mic pres, and the AD card allows me to patch in outboard gear as inserts. That way I wouldn't be overly invested in UAD hardware if I ever decided to go another route. I realize I could have purchased a UAD satellite and different (maybe better converters), but I have been intrigued sometime now with Universal Audio's mic pre modeling and tracking through their plugins. This is the biggest reason I got the Apollo Twin X. So I could explore these models. In my experience I am amazed with these models! I realize outboard hardware (mic pres, compressors, eq) have an edge but by how much? I have always wanted an API channel strip. I bought the UAD software version for $119 and am quite impressed with it. And I can run it tracking and after the fact in my mixes. Also, I am really enjoying console. It reminds me of the old days when I used hardware mixers. I am seriously weighing the benefits of having everything in the box verses buying more and more outboard gear. I am also watching where the mic modeling technology is going. At the end of the day, when someone listens to my work, will they know whether or not I was using software or hardware? Just providing some additional perspective. Thanks for what you are doing! Great work! Sorry for the long message!
SRSLY TLDR AF!! ;)
I read your reply. I work in the box. I love the work flow. I love not having to buy & maintain expensive hardware, pretty much because it's super expensive & I have other things I have to spend money on unfortunately. I'm looking for the ultimate in the box experience & have friends running uad. Not heard too many bad things (RME reviews seem flawless). The M1 mac seem to offer the total in box mixing performance & seems to render the dsp cards redundant. I am used to that work flow though too like you mention & so also looking for the best way forward. Was considering an Midas M32r digital mixer. Maybe the best of both worlds?
I’m at a crossroads where I’m very happy with everything with my hybrid set up and I feel like you made this video for me. It’s so specific to my conundrum 😂. I feel like the industry has baited me into feeling like the correct next step is to upgrade to an Apollo 16 but if I’m only doing that to get the “best” the conversion (I already own all their plugins and don’t care much about tracking through them)…is it worth dropping over 3K? For my studio budget that’s a huge purchase. I love my Focusrite Clarett+ 8 pre and I’m having a tough time finding what would be a suitable upgrade to get the best conversion possible. I use a whole bunch of outboard compressors, EQs and mic pres and I am extremely satisfied with the results of my current set up but just want to maximize the value of my gear. I almost feel like I’m just happy with what I have for now. It’s tough to justify the jump in price up to that next tier of true top notch “professional” grade interface
I sold my Apollo x8p and x16 and got a Presonus StudioLive Series III 32s plus a Burl B32, and a 500 series rack with a few preamps with the proceeds. Sounds just as fantastic, have plenty of great plugins with Studio One Pro, and now have a physical mixer and 32 channel DAW controller.
UAD just does not seem worth the price once you get over the "hype" of how good they are.
I made the switch to an Apollo about 2 years ago, for me it was a good switch. Of course I don’t use a lot of UAD plugins, I have a hybrid setup, but the conversion at least for my setup got better with the Apollo. Yes I believe there’s is a lot of hype surrounding the Apollo interface and sadly a lot of people won’t work with you if you don’t have an Apollo in your setup. I have friends with superior AD/DA interfaces but honestly it’s very hard to tell. I always liked apogee and focusrite and if I had to switch the Apollo I wouldn’t get another one. I like a lot of other options but again, people in my city won’t take you seriously if don’t have an Apollo in your rack so you have to have something UAD in your studio 🤷🏻♂️
What city are you from?
@@mrflynn01 +1
You said it yourself, but I think it is worth repeating: Presonus has come a long way. I've heard of some pros using some of their converters when they need to add digital I/O to their primary rig. I'd also say that converters have come a long way and there isn't much of a difference in most cases (and in some cases it's the exact same converters in different interfaces). I haven't heard that Presonus unit in particular, but I'm sure it's fine. I am less a fan of the Focusrite stuff I've used, again the pure digital conversion is probably good, but their hardware (especially their interface preamps) have a tone that I don't care for. I'm happy with my Apollo x8p (granted I got a steal on a used one, but still). It gives me 6x on the DSP + quality conversion in a 1U (well 2, if you count the space above for heat) rack unit. I've had great success with it. I've got a 9th gen i9 and I can comfortably mix a 96kHz session without DSP, but I like a few of their plugins, so being able to run them is convenient.
i had to 16.4.2 both went bad i will not pour any money on presonus products again .I do have an ADL600 the old one made in usa that works flawlessly
Real world user here. When I bought my first silver face Apollo 8, I had a Dangerous D-Box (for DAC) and a Burl 192 (for ADC).
When I upgraded from an Apollo 8 silver face to an Apollo X8, I sold the silver face, the D-Box, and the Burl 192.
I loved the D-Box DAC and the Burl 192 ADC, and there was a difference between them and the Apollo X. But was it a necessary difference?
Not anymore. Not how it was with the silver face Apollo.
The Apollo X was 95% DAC translation that the D-Box was, and while I did love the Burl ADC, we're again talking about something that doesn't make or break a capture.
I agree with others conclusions: if you can't make good music with the Apollo X using its internal ADC/DAC, it's not the Apollo's fault.
Yes, I'd be curious to see what UA will come out with next, and I'm sure it will be an improvement, but where it is now is very, very good.
I'm also a huge fan of the Sphere microphone that UA purchased from Townsend Labs; the L22, DLX, and LX are all incredibly useful tools and have made some wonderful chains significantly more affordable for those who either can't or don't wish to spend 10-20X the price.
Although I'm already invested in UAD, I really appreciate this video and you sharing your insight on this topic. Definitely going to check out more of your content. Cheers 🙏🏽
The SSL BigSix has me thinking of selling off my Apollo Twin Quad and a bunch of UA plugins. But I don’t want to lose money on that swap. I’m also looking forward to the new pro level Mac Mini or iMac in (hopefully!) March ‘22.
Great as always Berry! When it comes to gear people tend to use it as a status symbol and hear with their eyes instead of their ears. There's so much more in the chain that makes a bigger difference than converters especially nowadays. Like in the mixing analog videos I couldn't tell a difference and I'm sure all of us that actually listend didn't hear a difference but we all thought there was going to be a big difference between the two. I really like the presonus Stuff it's incredible value for the price and the studio live eco system is absolutely amazing! I use studio one so obviously I'm a little biased but I really try to listen with my ears instead of my eyes. If someone can name what interface/gear in a blind test without knowing what was used I want to shake their hand because they are super human at Hearing.
Berry ? its Barry😂
Converters are Converters, but LUNA is awesome, so far the API Console Emulation is awesome👍
Gimmick? No. Great sound tracking with plugins??? Yes!
Is the API console DSP hungry? Versus plug-ins using them together etc.
Love the video Barry. I'm a long time UAD and Presonus user. I have yet to hear the magical converter difference and IMO. The Quantum line covers all my live and studio needs and UAD fills in the real time plug-in gap. As I consider updating to M1 level chip sets. The idea of DSP becomes less and less ideal. My Softube software and hardware solutions work well as alternative future solution to replace my DSP needs.
I watch his videos like a week ago and I think what he did was very good with the comparisons he did. He did a eye test and a ear test and honestly you couldn’t see a much difference to be hyped about with the Apollo. Thank you for the video and continue the great content for people like me who are looking for truth. And I love the apple stuff but I must say pc have been in that level for a while now. I have friends who will never go back to apple because the price is like half and the systems are way faster.
First time viewer to your channel. I wish to see more about AD/DA and DSD or DXD in the future. From the country where I lived (Burma) is hard to see those technologies especially Audio Over IP
Thanks Barry. I think most people will agree with the following: Use what works for you, use what you can afford, use what you have.. Like anything technical, you can go DEEP into the rabbit hole. Whether its Interfaces, DACs, Cameras, knitting needles (pop tarts) etc.. You get the point. Use what you can afford to create your passion's masterpiece. I will say, all of this stuff is fun to discuss and waste money on. I do it myself, but when we step back and contemplate, it is not the converters (or gear in general), that hinders our creativity. We can argue, the pursuit of the latest/greatest gear DOES hinder our creativity.. Keep up the great videos.. Speaking of GAS, just upgraded my interface to an RME UCX II this year. I am enjoying it so far and anticipate it will last me years..
Apollos have a bit of a "sound" to them, which most interfaces don't. I'm not saying it's a good or bad thing, just that both the A/D and the built in preamps aren't really neutral in character, while most competing products in the given price ranges are. Obviously, a subtle observation in the grand scheme of things.
Hey Barry, I just want to thank you for taking the time and effort for putting out the information that you give for guys like me who can use direction in understanding what works and what doesn’t. I, for one appreciate the content of your videos and I say keep ‘em coming Thanks again
I was telling a friend just yesterday about how cool it was to be able to buy native UA plugins and that they had a generous demo period. He said "the best hacks are the ones that unlock the 14-30 trials". I sort of doubt that even works. I don't mind paying for all this innovation, history and support. It's already cheating to have it for practically nothing (compared to UAD DSP) and not have to load it into racks, patch it or move it.
Maybe most importantly, even though you can justify not paying for things, it only hurts you in the end from a metaphysical perspective IMO.
Also when you make money doing your passion, you need lots of tax writeoffs. So either you can get new tools or pay the IRS. Up to you...
Great conversation, great topic.
I'm with the crowd and want the absolute best that I can afford but a great performance into a ok interface (quite a few fairly good ones these days) will beat a crappy performance into a great interface any day of the week. Capture great performances and you'll be a happy camper. I have been using a Presonus Firestudio Mobile into a firewire card for years and still have it, in fact I'm gonna keep it. Also have a UAD 2 card with EMT Plate, EMT Delay and Oxide Tape which I love. Just bought a UAD Apollo Solo which I also think I'm gonna love. Capture inspiration. A great interface can't polish a turd.
The presonus tb3 interfaces are actually the fastest ones around I think they sound great. My studiolive 32sc is also great. But I do love my x series apollos.
I have the studio live 32s and an Apollo twin duo and Apollo x16
Thanks so much for your perspective Barry!
I'm one of the people wanting to upgrade my interface for more inputs. My focusrite 2i2 does a good job for a beginner. Now that I have some time doing this I want to upgrade my setup. So, with DSP onboard I purchased the Apollo twin for that reason. It arrived today and havent had the time to set up yet. But, here's my confusion, the marketing hype I hear makes me indecisive for any product these days. Some don't even disclose any info on there devices and consumers have to make informed decisions on the hype. In fact everything is hyped up these days. I have to get larger boots. Love the work, Barry that your doing, thanks for your the studio talk.
All of this is so subjective. Many audio engineers will say different things. I know people who likes the Apollo X6/X8 conversion better than RME and vice versa.
It’s all preference.
Every time I read a great interview with a great audio engineer, they always seem to mention how important their converters are.
Lots of people use different ones and have different results that their pleased with. It all comes down to preference.
And what one may love, another may find displeasure in.
Lots of songs you hear have gone through multiple A/D, D/A trips due to tracking, mixing, and mastering. Using different converters based on who’s working on the track. Talent triumphs over all.
In essence, get what you can afford and do your best.
The quality of converters is not subjective. They are very easy to determine objectively.
I got a feeling UAD has some surprises coming in June
Let’s hope so!
More price increases? 😂
Surprised no mention of the Lynx Aurora(n) units. Very customizable, great conversion and usability for home studio or professional studios. Outstanding customer support and longevity. I changed over from UA. I'm dropping Avid and UA completely which is what I've used for 10 years.
Absolutely a great converter, that said it’s not a comparable competitor, as it doesn’t have mic preamps and the other typical interface options, I used to use an Aurora 16 with my PTHD rig and loved it.
@@BarryJohns My Lynx Aurora (n) came with 8 mic pres Mr Johns. In hidnsight I should have gone for the 4 preamp configuration.
@@jimbotski my bad Jim, I didn’t realize that they added the option to add microphone preamps to the unit.
@@BarryJohnsan easy miss. LYNX marketing is awful.
I'm inclined to agree with one of the commentators who said that into todays market; considering all things. How music is made and consumed; most is going to be about preference. I think the conversation is amazing. I find the biggest issue that most have with the Apollo is that they're tracking at -18dBFS which I think stems from ProTools being calibrated to this value OTB. Apollo units allow you to set the converters to -20/-24dBFS. Which must be taken into accountability when listening for the accurate conversation and representation of the stereo field.
Also... UAD Spark is a thing.
I have to call Myth on 1st Gen apollo.
Barry I love your channel but the first generation Apollo's have great conversion, have you ever listen to one? I own one.
At first I bought a second generation 8p.
There were no options at the time (2016) like Slate Digital's Neve preamp which he claims has what the UAD unison is doing in the software and does not need hardware.
He claims near 0 latency plugin on recording with it.
Also Presonus had not come out with their latest console which provides 32 preamps with digital emulation of Neve equipment plus compression on recording.
That came out in 2017 I believe.
Another thing was Waves was still expensive in 2016. All the Waves plugins I have are great. Waves is a quality company.
I believe in 2017 they dropped all there prices.
So my only choice was UAD at the time.
I bought an Audient 800 also to make 16 tracks.
When I wanted to go to 24 tracks, I decided not to get rid of everything. This is because it would be close to the same cost selling my UAD gear and buying two Presonus units.
So I kept the 8p and bought used the firewire Apollo 1st Gen with a thunderbolt card.
So recording quality is not that much different comparing it to my 8p.
There are only a few converter chips out there anyways from what Glenn at Spectre sound says.
Today you could record with many inexpensive interfaces and at that point maybe there would be a tiny difference in quality but no difference after a good professional mix.
Only difference I noticed on the first Gen UAD Apollo was the monitoring. It was not as detailed but not hard to adjust just reference!
So if you all want UAD buy pre-owned from a reputable buyer because those first Gen converters are awesome.
Yes plugins do sound like hardware especially UAD and it doesn't matter what interface you get they are all quality for the most part. Just check to see how much signal they can handle an stop talking about all this.
Just mix, just record!!!!!!!!
I still have the first gen Apollo and I still love it. My recordings sound great.
Thanks Barry, for the informative as well as conversational videos.
I own an Apollo Duo (rack mount). The UAD business model of emulating vintage analog equipment was a concept that I was persuaded to buy into at my local Guitar Center. Now, a few years later after using it as the only interface to my Logic Pro DAW, I find myself using no UAD effects plugins at all (I have bought many) except the UAD pre-amp plugins. I prefer to leave effects like chorus, reverb, compression etc. to tweak in Logic Pro during the mix process. I am a total amateur/rookie (imbecile) to sound recording, but that is the 'workflow' that I prefer.
Even using just UAD pre-amps to process microphone and electric guitar inputs presents an issue for me - for instance, the Neve 1073 pre-amp plugin is so accurately emulated, you even get the hum and background noise of the actual device. I then find myself suppressing with a noise gate in the DAW during mixing. I must be an idiot - going about this totally wrong, but I paid good $$ for the plug-in only to suppress it in the mix.
Thank you for raising the question regarding using DSP and it's ongoing irrelevance (obsolescence) in the face of faster CPU's like M1.
If you are a PC head the Apollo is not your best choice, you better get Antelope audio or any other interface, i tried it and it was a was the most stressful gear I’ve ever bought and my question was should I change my laptop to be able to use a new device, I decided to return it and rest my case with antelope audio and keep my peace of mind .
I've had an entry level interface for a long time. Focusrite scarlet 2i2. And 2 years ago I got the apollo twin x thunderbolt 3. Wich have given me so much problems to use, since I'm a windows user. There are problems with the driver. Some noises and routing issues. Now that you mention the presonus quantum, I wanted to know what are your thoughts about the focusrite Clarett. And that presonus. I was able to listen to a big quality difference between the apollo and the scarlet. But that apollo just doesn't work for me. Any reviews on the Clarett and/or the quantum.
Thank you
Holy smokes I just priced the Apollos. Twin X Duo selling for $1200 now. I paid $900 for mine just over a year ago. Thats insane. Ill probably sell mine for what I paid for it now. lol
I'm surprised about the Presonus. Working in the MI industry in the recording department for over 22 years I've never liked Presonus. Their analogue components would constantly crackle and the sound quality was pretty average. That being said I haven't tried any of the recent interfaces so I might give it a try. I'm personally a fan of Apogee for conversion, but am disappointed with Apogee's current offerings. They discontinued half their product line and their commitment to DSP plugins are pretty bad (they refuse to make a reverb DSP plugin). Anyway, I enjoyed the video and your charisma.
I remember buying a second hand TC Electronic impact Twin based on gearslutz review. Costed 90 bucks and sounded better than my Apollo Twin MK2.
Thank you for this video
Excellent video Barry! Like you, I have married into the AVID ecosystem..(eg S4, Studio MTRX and HDX)
That apogee life never disappoints
used to have an ensemble, but i sold it and got the apollo. Ive always wondered why the apollo didnt sound great. its the conversion
Does the Quantum has anything to do with Dave Hills Quantum clock design?? did they buy the technology??
Don’t know.
The PreSonus Quantum 26x32 is only $999 and smokes my Apollo X4 that cost twice as much. I bought the X4 for portable use and to use for Live Podcasting.
I'm 40 plus and I can hear over 15k as I recently had a hearing test because I haven't damaged my ears but your overall point is well taken. I have used two different presonus interfaces and they are manure so I'm waiting on my RME to come off of background so I can toss the presonus in the trash. The quantum may be a good piece of gear but personally I'm done with presonus.
@@levondarratt787 You gotta relax 😂. I just turned 30 last month. And by smoking it I mean fuller sounding bass in the sub frequencies, more I/O, bypassable preamps, Zero Latency in general in Studio One (not just with Presonus Plugins) etc... All for more than 50% less than what you get with the X4. In short it smokes it in overall value. I've owned both for 2 years now. Both are great units, but I'd feel like a fool buying an X4 today if I had to only have 1 interface. The $1k+ saved buying a Quantum can go towards more high-end gear.
@@v3zMedia I agree. There is no need to overpay in today's market especially in the used arena. Companies have been charging more but providing less and use effective marketing on why we need it. UAD makes great analog gear but in my humble opinion their interfaces and plugins are way over priced for what your are getting and the dsp nonsense is so 1980s. I considered them as I am revamping my studio but I would need a Mac which is huge investment, interface along with the high priced plugins therefore decided it was not worth it as I could keep my great pc, buy some analog gear, a new rme interface with a few select plugins by fabfilter and brainworx and call it good. Best of luck on the quantum. Oh could you run them both in a Adat setup?
@@PurpleMusicProductions You can run the Apollo on PC. I have a Custom built PC as well as a Gigabyte Aero 15 OLED laptop. It works fine on both. You just have to have the right windows laptop or Thunderbolt PCIE card in your Desktop. However, if you want to use their new Luna DAW you will need a Mac for sure as they haven't made that software compatible with PC yet. And yes I can use these units together through ADAT.
@@v3zMedia Ah ok I see I was wondering how pc users could run UAD because I had heard so many people say they had issues. Thanks for that tip because if I ever decide to go that route then it is possible but with caveats. Thanks for the great dialogue. What kind of music are you doing if you do not mind me asking?
Just joined your channel…very insightful and helpful. Thank you!
I have a StudioLive 32C matched with a SSL UC1, and use StudioOne 5.5. The work flow is amazing. Plus, a StudioLive 32SC is actually less expensive than Apollo. Get a lunch box of preamps and you will get amazing results.
We had a studio live in here for mixing keyboards and drum machines alongside UA Apollo. It sounded terrible compared to the Apollo. Killed the low end and highs sounded crappy. Got rid of it right away
@@steveg219The new 32 series blows away the old 16 series soundwise. The 32 series have motorized faders and the DAW mode makes mixing so much more tactile. I don't use the mixers FX, The SSL plugs on every channel in StudioOne takes care of that. Great results.
I have a few UA units. But I bought them more for the unison input plugins and preamp emulations over their DSP. I’ve seen a lot of comparisons to actual analog boards. I think it goes deeper than D to A conversions and DSP. Hell I don’t need the dsp but it’s nice to have. But those unison inputs are great. At least in my opinion. I’m actually welcoming the spark plugins. I can work on my laptop with those now
Same, I love their guitar effects sims, definitely makes playing guitar so insane.
Apollo comes with a huge package of high quality plugins. No one cares at the end when a song is finished.
I have a first gen Apollo Twin, it sounds great but you have to connect the D/A’s to monitor station because it doesn’t push monitors well. So coming from the same Apollo monitoring sounds much better going to a monitoring station with a subwoofer. I have a million dollar sound🙌🏽
Now a days it aint the gear its the ear! You can get a great sound from "mid level" equipment. My apollo twin works and sounds great. If it aint broke dont fix it 🤷🏾♂️
Very interesting video Barry. I´m a Apollo X4 User/Satellite Octo. I agree, that DSP for Mixing is over. But whats with tracking? What i still like is to engage a 1073 UAD Neve Plugin as the first step in the singlechain, to give the tracking some of flavour. I don´t know any other system, where i can do this. Or, i have to buy a similar, more cheaper interface and buy some phyiscal micpres. Or maybe i don´t know yet, where is a good alternative to UAD. Again: I´m talking about tracking. Thanks and greetz. Carsten ✌🏼
I like that you said that because I just did a video on the SSL Big SIx and there was quite a bit of difference and you can tell the UAD interface sounded dated so this video was right on par thanks for making it
If I would build a (home) studio today, I wouldn’t mind with UA Apollo, DSP and such… I would do just what I’m doing right now, which is buying a maxed out MacBook Pro M1 Max 64GB 32GPU 8TB, and then I would add the UF8+UC1 for nice ITB workflow and then I would add the Big SiX (or two Big SiX) for audio interface, monitoring, outboard… later on, you add the Flock Audio and maybe couple 500 rack if you want some specific stuff such a pair of Neve Pre, 1176, LA2A and a pair of Pultec and the SSL Ultraviolet… done! For less than the price of a top audio system on Avid HDX or UA Apollo, you will have a full studio that will be very flexible, could record a whole band if you want and could track, record, mix and master. Just add your favorite speakers and mics and you’re done.
The older I get, the more minimalistic I become, trying to get “to the point”, focusing more on the music and less on the gear… and trust me, I was a gearslutz and gear nerd like a lot of people here. I just don’t believe in chasing dreams and unicorns anymore.
@@Spidouz Man I felt like you just described my studio in the next piece um wanting to get which is the SSL ultraviolet and then honestly I’m done after that I guess great minds think alike and I totally agree with you I just want something I can connect my Studio together run pieces simultaneously without any hassle I’m good
Can I use UAD Apollo Twin and Antelope Galaxy 32 interfaces linked up together through the optical? Just so I can use the Galaxy as the I/O Host (conversion) and UAD twin to use UAD's plugins powered with the Apollo's dsp..
Had a feeling you were going to reference that video. I have both quantum’s and one modded by BLA. I can ensure they sound amazing at the price
Thanks for all of the great content Barry! Started watching over the last year and really have picked up a lot. I purchased a used Behringer X32rack to get more comfortable with our church's setup and have inevitably started going down the audio engineering rabbit hole. Looking to add a higher quality desktop interface in the future that could be expanded even further down the road. That said, your recent high-end/mid-level interfaces videos have been great. The Audient ID22/44 and Cranborne ADAT500 look like solid, converter conscious, upgrade path solutions (especially if I want to experiment with the 500 series stuff). But I also have an eye on the Presonus Quantum interfaces.
Great points, I fell off the UAD band wagon a few years ago. Nothing wrong or against UAD, I think they are still a great brand company. Just prefer other conversion.
Like what and why?
I just purchased a studio desk and want to buy a studio interface rack for my desk. Which would you recommend? I have the new M1 MacBook Pro..and I’m looking to spend no more than $2600. I’m wanting something for clear vocals..I prefer a lighter clean sound than a warm closed in sound
RME Fireface UFX+
@@BarryJohns is thunderbolt better than USB?
@@SundayVibesmusic if they are both the latest versions, then either is fine. If on a Mac go Thunderbolt, PC USB C
I had already seen that series of videos you referenced and he does make a very good point about the presonus units
Apogee ALL THE WAY 🔥🔥
❤love your work Barry
I'm totally with you that we don't really need DSP anymore, but: I'm about to pick up an Antelope Discrete 4 Synergy Core, because for its price it seems MUCH better in a) conversion, b) preamp quality, and c) latency than anything else. I would be happier getting no DSP and either saving some money or getting more preamps, but unfortunately I can't find anything else comparable around the price. Would love other suggestions (and don't bother telling me about the Presonus Quantum, I don't like the pres on that, they sound lifeless).
Have you looked at RME? Checks all your boxes. Honestly if you’re really looking for great preamps, go outboard anyway. No interface will give you want an 1073 is (unless you do the UA unison thing).
I know Apollo’s aren’t top tier conversion, i have an X6 and decided to try out the Synergy Core, to see if the conversion was better. I was very unimpressed, it didn’t match the hype. Compared to the X6, it sounded grainy (to my ears), with a hyped high end so I returned it, and kept the X6.
@@Truth565 hi which model of Synergie Core have you tried??
@@risla-prods2001 Hi, It was the Discrete 8 Synergy Core.
Спасибо большое за видео. Вы подтвердили и мои мысли по этому поводу.
The price difference between the boxes is insane. I just want some top quality conversion and good connectivity at that price point. Which also make me wonder what is Apogee up to? Feel like they have been quiet for a while and don’t get mention much on this Chanel. Great on point content as always.
My Rosetta KICKED ASS, but that was 20 years ago. There was a world of difference with my m audio conversion and the apogee. The m audio I felt like was a pair of glasses with mud on them in comparison. Fast forward to 2016 or 2017, I got a presonus studio 192. There was a difference but couldn’t call one better than the other. Prosumer grade stuff has come a long way.
Apogee has to have something masterful coming. Learning from the Apollo & Carbon, 32/386 , 9.1 AMBEO , 11.1 ATMOS, etc
I agree...I feel like Apogee should have something in a 1 RU form factor right in that $1k-1.5k price range to compete with the MOTU and FocusRite Clarett+ units. Like a USB-C version of the Ensemble.
what do you think of the RME UFX 3 ?
Thank you for the video. I agree about the Apollo conversions, But I’m also not trusting of the presonus preamps. They are good and they are clean but my experience with them has been there of demo studio quality. With the quantum maybe they have improved? I decided to go with the Audient ID 14 MKII and the Audient ASP 800 Optical eight channel expansion unit, But there are so many high-quality non-DSP options as you mentioned. RME, Antelope, And SSL all have amazing affordable options as long as you have a CPU power for your plug-ins. Thank you again for the video. I always learn something new
Why do you always bash UA? It's kind of sad.. they are an incredible company..
Thank you, this is really useful information. I Would be really interested in knowing your opinion I had the original idea of buying an all UAD ecosystem and before doing so I’m learning what is out there recently. I’ve been out of the game for quite some time and wonder how much CPU power do I need for my recording studio in the future I’d be interested in recording drums maybe but right now mainly guitar pedal board, fractal and acoustic instrument potentially using at first superior drummer 3.
The question is how much power should I need in cpu and hard drive?
Should I consider an all UAD cause of their DSP according to you I’d better put my money into upgrading my computer to a Mac with M1 or M2 but much ram, cpu power would you recommend?
Thank you
apollos have advantage to those who use uad2 plugs. it saves processing power from your CPU. what worries me is that rumours that next gem thunderbolt won't be backwards compatible. hope this is just a rumours.
1000 words and no 1 particulars!!!
Hell yea let’s go. I just sold my Apollo there conversion is just ok but plug ins and marketing is good . Apoggee all day
Barry. Your videos are really upbeat. Modern and fresh. Keep up the good work!
I want to upgrade my audio interface from Audient iD4 previous gen .... My choices are UAD Apollo Solo or Antelope Audio Zen Go or Apogee Duet 3... which one should I buy ? or do you suggest some other interface ??? It would be great help .
Hey Barry, I really enjoy your work here. Question: if I have excellent BAE and SSL preamps already and don’t use interface pres, is there a best choice for an interface for a guy like me? I want the best converters period. I don’t need dsp. I don’t need preamps.
Thanks
Hi Barry, thanks for your awesome tips...
I have a question, have you bothered with BitStream/DSD audio?
Are there any DSD audio interfaces or converters on the market?
Is Monterey my problem? Is that why I'm having so much trouble with projects not wanting to open without a pop up box saying Im overloaded, and its going to remove one or more of my UAD plugins in order to open and play.
I have a Apollo 4x Quad AND a OCTO Satellite!!! I never used to have this issue with my Intel Mac using Big Sur or prior.
As a Gen 1 Apollo Firewire as well as a x8 user, the conversion is not where it needs to be. Is it usable, sure. But the moment you compare it to something like a Hilo, or a Merging Horace, in a mix...that's when you hear it. The bottom is isn't a full and tight, the mids are not articulate, the highs are smeary, and the least talked about aspect of sound quality is speed. I wouldn't call the conversion on Apollos slow, but they're certainly not fast. Overall, a good metaphor for the sound would be they sound like a thin blanket is in front of your monitors / headphones. Start stacking tracks, and you'll REALLY hear the overall mix fall short. Now, if you bypass all that via ADAT, the DSP quality is very good.
does the apollo twin duo mk 1 sound bad?
Definitely looks a lot better with the free L22 with the rackmounts and lower price by not having to get Heritage package
because of the national semi conductor shortage most modern converters are made by the same manufacturer
Apogee duet 3 vs the Apollo Twin? What’s your thoughts.
Presonus makes some good products, I've had the Erie 8 monitors for a while now
Do you think the Apollo Solo has the same converters as the X series Apollo Twins and up, although it’s at 118 db dynamic range and almost the same specs as the Mark II Apollo Twin, I’m wondering if the Solo’s converters got upgraded when they discontinued the Arrow.
In fairness, nobody buys UAD interfaces who doesn't also intend to use the plugins, so it REALLY difficult to separate one from the other. Also, the interfaces at all levels are often either on sale, or bundled with a significant amount of otherwise expensive, great sounding plugins. That it also comes with good converters is awesome, but the unit itself being judged on conversion alone is missing the forest for the trees.
I think Uad is one of the best audio interface for tracking, with the 0 latency, the plugin they have, the unison thing , but if we are talking about mixing, at some point, it's not worth it to invest money on it. The biggest reason for that is as you pointed it out, their dsp being really expensive
but quantum series are faster, you can get 1-3ms depending on your needs/specs
@@hansonigor I don't even know what is the "ms" of uad when i am monitoring, because it sounds like real time... + If you use luna you will have the feeling of doing it with a daw experience. In other Daw, the more plugin and tracks you will add , the bigger the "ms" will be
You had me at pop tart 😂
So what do you think about buying used apollo 8 silver with thunder bolt cards. Right before the pandemic started I purchased both of them. Im coming from a 002 black lion audio set up. I mostly track drum machine and keyboard
Unless you are already invested in UAD plugins, you can get a much better IO. He are they asking
I have a question. How many round trips of conversion is possible before introducing sound quality issues when coming-out of the box to process through hardware and then back in to the box again?
For example, Vocals out of interface (digital to analog conversion) to hardware compressor and back in (analog back to digital conversion). If your running Vocals, Bass, Stereo Guitars, Piano etc all out individually for processing and then your also running your entire mix back out again on the master bus for processing Is all this conversion doing more harm than good? Not to mention mastering which will be another round of conversion if using outboard.
That depends on the quality of your interface.
Let me ask this. I have used the RME UCX since 2017, it's even gone to live gigs with me, frightening i know, and it's never given me anything but perfection. I don't track vocals, or drums...sometimes guitars, depends on the song. Basically i have one analog synth. The kicker is i have superior D/A conversion via Dangerous Music Convert 2. So going out to monitors i'm obviously in mastering grade territory. I have outboard gear, and herein lies the question. Is the RME A/D D/A conversion of the RME alone good enough for my 500 racks, synthesizer? would you leave this setup alone?
Defiantly
I bought a Presonus Quantum 2626 in December - It’s fantastic -
Would you like to make a video about the new Lynx studio Aurora TB3? At first glance, it's an excellent converter, but the high-quality technology creates all kinds of filter sounds. Does anybody have experience with this?
With spark now in play & some of the plug ins being exclusive to UAD is Apollo now a good purchase or should I go with RME
RME is a way better interface.
@@BarryJohns thx for the reply ! I’m going to go a little off track now …& I always watch your videos but I’m definitely confused with all the gear that’s out there so question #1 what plug ins shall I go with plug in alliance or UAD ? Question #2 for my vocals I like going into the interface with hardware so Neve 1073 DPX or is SPX enough or warm audio 73 or 273 ? I greatly appreciate your help with these purchase decisions!
what do you think about the motu ultralite mk5?
How UAD converters would perform against Dangerous Music Convert 8 ?
I have the very first Apollo 8….its benefit is being able to track through plug ins, I am very sick of the DSP I have an Apollo and an octo shark….i still have to use limited amount of plug ins and I can barely run any plug ins going into the Apollo anymore….idk why that happened but it seems like they’re using more DSP per plug in now….however the subject of sound….thats like saying the Neve console sounds different than the SSL
UAD increases the consumption of its plugins to push you to buy other DSPs. It’s called, A Commercial Strategy
Which converters better than apollo twin x (in this range)