Gale Banks Reacts to Bad Dyno Session | Fact Check
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- Опубликовано: 16 июн 2024
- S&B Filters recently posted a video about their new RAM 1500 TRX intake system. In the video, JLT Performance, an S&B company, compares the stock intake with the S&B unit using a typical chassis dynamometer. Not long after the video was posted, fans began blowing up Gale's inbox. "You've gotta see this. They're testing with the hood open!" Having the hood closed during testing is critical in replicating real-world conditions. But in order to close the hood during testing, you must provide ample airflow or the vehicle will overheat. This is where the wheels fall off.
Before the respected 80-year-old engineer had a chance to see the video, we convinced him to watch it on camera. We set up a computer in the race shop and clicked play as the cameras rolled.
Note: Banks has no plans to produce a TRX intake system.
Gale Banks Reacts to HOONIGAN 1,000 HP Compound Turbo Duramax Diesel
• Gale Banks Reacts to H...
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00:00 Intro
00:45 JLT Performance background info
01:26 Dyno fan is insufficient
03:26 Why hood-up is bad
04:00 Banks wind machine
07:00 Intercooler heat saturation
08:30 Stock intake dyno runs
09:43 Catalytic converter over-temp protection
13:02 Critical measurements
14:07 Conditioning of the vehicle
16:27 Parasitic horsepower loss
17:27 S&B intake dyno runs
19:08 Dyno results
21:00 Gale's fact check
#ram #trx #engineering 
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This is why I bought Banks products for both of my trucks, because he knows what the hell he's doing and will back it up and prove it, not because he has to, but because he can.
I hope he's around for a long time. It's going to be a sad sad day in motorsports history the day we lose Gale Banks. 50+ years of pouring his heart into his passion. You better believe the auto manufacturers have learned a lot from him.
@@jarotex we have all learnt a lot from Mr Banks.
Well said.
@@jarotex as far as I'm concerned, gale could retire if he wanted to. As long as his company continues to make products and test to the standards hes set. His stuff is expensive because of the standards and testing, and the testing is extensive. Like he said, "if we gain power, we know exactly why."
I do the same for every vehicle Banks makes parts for, and I use Fuel Moto, DK Customs, and Trask for motorcycle parts for the exact same reason - they actually test configurations, explain why that was the test criteria they used, and will tell you which combination of parts will actually help you, and tell you which ones (that they sell!) that you should skip. Each of those three have told me on my own builds not to spend the extra money on certain upgrades precisely because on my bike the “upgrades” wouldn’t do what they can do on other bikes (or in one case for a new titanium exhaust Fuel Moto said I’d gain at most a couple of HP, that my current exhaust would support up to 210 HP, and that unless I was planning on installing a 131ci or larger and increasing the turbo size at the same time I’d be better off just saving the money or taking my wife on a holiday - unless I really liked the sound of titanium, because that’s all I’d be buying).
I LOVE the fact there's a Ram TRX behind Gale with the hood up for the whole vid. He's got a good sense of humor for being so serious about his work
I barely caught that. That's hilarious lol
Yes, but notice it’s not running 🤷♂️
Shout out to lbc lighting for that
@@justinbales5378 Thanks for the shout!
And also, the hood is part of the intake on them so that is even more argument against hood up dyno.
Man. Gale hit' em with "no homo" right off.
Bruh😂
LMFAO 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 I am the night foreman at a steel plant in the Midwest. The owner is a cute old man who is a walking encyclopedia like gale who will fucking EVISCERATE YOU if you come at a problem like a fool. Reminds me exactly of my owner. Built an empire as well. Still works 13 hour days at 87.
Another reason I would trust Mr. Banks is the work he's doing for military vehicles as well as street/track. Not everyone gets to see their name on military gear, and he won't tell you what he can't because of classification, truly an honorable man, keep up the amazing work Mr. Banks.
Gale’s knowledge and straight shooting is refreshing!!! Gale Banks for President!!!
I'm hoping he has someone he is mentoring. He's not a young guy anymore and I would hate to see all his knowledge disappear and not be passed on.
@@bmstylee I couldn’t agree more!!
@@rock-uu7qr not a chance, but he might execute people for rolling coal.
Gale has forgotten more than most will ever hope to know. Love Banks Power and their solid approach to testing and getting results. I'll stick with Banks for my parts- not ideas from others because they "might" make an improvement.
Right at the beginning of the vid it says Gale Banks “Engineer”. That’s Mechanical Engineer which the other guy obviously wasn’t lol.
The man knows his boosted diesels
He doesn't need to worry about forgetting it because he datalogs it. Thats Gale.
this could totally be a new series this is just pure comedy 😂 Gale is really a fountain of wisdom
I would love a 1 hour q&a session with Gale.
Couldn't agree more.
Thank you so much for this ... JLT's data has been skewed since the beginning of time. And I've mentioned this in multiple occasions. Hood down tests are the best way to test. You've literally verified what I've been saying for years as a aftermarket calibration specialist.
I have gotten in multiple arguments with him on GT500 groups because his "gains" advertised for the 5.4 GT500 never showed at the track. He told me that the track wasn't a good indicator 😂😂😂. I was track testing parts with my foxbodies before he even had a Mustang I think.
They got slapped on the pee pee finally. Thanks to Mr. Banks for validating what you have been saying for years.
I'm banned from the TVS/Whipple Coyote page and Jay has me blocked due to me calling him out. I've also got 4 hilariously bad tunes on my laptop that Kenny boy with PBD sent out. Those two guys really don't like me.
JTL, Just Lie To 'em.
Test it as close as you can to real world. Otherwise youre chasing a number just to flex on people at car shows. "Yeah it made 802hp, BUT it was 75 degrees 50% humidity and the wind was blowing from the south a 5mph and Mercury was in retrograde."
I'd love to see a proper test done by you to show how much, if any, power that airbox _actually_ adds.
We need more Gale reacts
I'm absolutely enjoying this!
Pray this man gives us another 30 years of this because most others won't.
That would be nice, but Gale is 81.
81?! I know of someone who's 81 but can't piece together a coherent sentence.
Gale, I laughed so hard when you started that video and I saw that fan. Another thing is how much he can actually reliably measure with the tire hanging an inch and a half off each side of the dyno. The third thing I noticed is that when he was running the test he didn't let the truck settle before going for the pull. I showed this to my buddy who actually runs a chassis dyno and he said he agrees with you 100%. I want to add also that my buddy actually added air straighteners or directional slats to the front of his fan set up because he said, " Driving down the road, the air doesn't travel in a circle. Straighten the air flow, and you get better realistic conditions." He's right too. He's got four 22" 240v fans bolted together in a sheet metal box on a pallet jack and they move almost 6000cfm each. Together they are moving 21,500 cfm after the air is straightened. He calls it the Monster Box. He had an electrician come in and put it on its own circuit. He said airflow in front of the vehicle is his a number one priority before he even straps the car down. No hood up tests. He does 5 pulls to get his average with a 2 minute idle between runs.
*edited for typos.
Thank you Mr. Banks. I'm a complete amature in the performance game but trying my hardest to learn. You saved me from learning a bad habit or practice. People like me are too old to go to some sort of school and no one would take me on as a apprentice at 52. So RUclips it is. In this video alone you taught me so much. Again Thank you. God Bless.
Gale is not only the king of the dyno, he is the king of data.
In all honesty Gales demeanor shown here is his disappointment in what was taking place. The reality Gale has done his best to share alot of what he knows to be true before its lost.
Not really, he's just being honest using the 60 years of experience. Like my dad used to say "He's won too many horse races to shovel the stalls". He uses real data because real data is not on the sales material. This is a "Pitch" for a product - nothing more, Pitches are full of claims, and claims are claims. Eveything he pionted out could affect the outcome by 15-20 HP, slightly pushing it over the edge to buy and that could mean a good sale or a bad one. Its all about the sale - take their money - Tons of people sell crap that "Get you there" but cannot explain what is happening. He's good at pointing out "Jackassery" by a shady salesman.
I dont know him or richard are close to data horders lol
This feels like a Gordon Ramsey video.
but without the swearing - at least on camera 😉😎
@@gordowg1wg145 A guy can only say so much on a family show....lol But could you imagine if the gloves came off!!
Edutainment. I was fully entertained by him absolutely roasting the dyno runs, and learned a little more about how to do proper comparison runs. Bravo
Gale, you have one of the best minds in the automotive business...seriously. Love all the banks products and thrilled you're on youtube now. So much valuable info on your videos!
It would be interesting to see the outcome of the modifications under your stricter test conditions. And how different the claims would be to more accurate/ realistic test conditions.
After market intakes are a placebo in most cases. Any gain is generally the filter medium.
I would bet he would compliment the factory system like he did the factory diff covers.
More airflow is possible with intake system's. That opens the table to more power if configured properly ecm parameters for airflow into the engine
Probably lost hp if tested in the same conditions over stock intake :)
@@01trsmar exactly! All that has happened is leaning out the mixture due to higher air flow. If you wanna see any kind of gains, dyno tuning needs to be done for intake, exhaust, etc.
Basically in scientific experiments which is what a dyno is there has to be what’s called a control. A constant variable for comparison. Well in the combustion engine it’s a ton more complicated so there are many controls !! Gale actually takes the time to monitor those meticulously which is why he gets results !! Love the videos sir !
It's all about having a well constructed and well calibrated model. If your model is just throw whatever out there that makes it easiest to make more power then your model is garbage. If you're monitoring your inputs like volumetric airflow and air speed and correlating that to real world results like 0-60 tests then you're much more likely to have a valid model that can accurately relate the data. It's really no different than metrology for quality in a manufacturing environment. You can have the best measuring tools in the game (dyno, micrometers, CMMs, etc.) but if your environment isn't controlled (temp, humidity, etc.) then you're going to get garbage out of it.
Gale Banks is a mechanical engineer with the runs on the board. Off shore boats, Bonneville, Drags and tow rigs, he has done it all. As a 40+ year Mercedes Benz tech and racer, I've been following the man from here in Australia since the 1970s. Check out his old articles in Popular Hot Rodding. Go Sundowner!
Many hacks on youtube are just that - hacks.
Thanks for bringing us along! Congrats on your new PB!
I ALWAYS learn watching your videos. Thanks for the rigorous explanations.
I appreciate your honesty, I love my Derringer on my EcoDiesel, so many people insist that deleting everything is the best way to make power. I appreciate you making power and letting me pass my emmisions test in CA every two years.
Still doesn't make it more reliable then having it deleted. Emissions kill diesels period.
@@evictioncarpentry2628 here in Cali it's illegal so having a tune that makes the engine run so much better and staying legal,can't beat that.
@@yodawg3469 sounds like its better to delete cali lol
@@lordjaashin delete the people in charge of cali..
Great info sir. I am an engine nerd and love the fine details as they do pay off in the finished product... love the sense of humor! Keep it up!
This kind of information is why I subscribe to this channel and I really really really love what y'all are doing up here. And I mean this is a compliment. Mr. Banks reminds me of my diesel mechanics instructor. Ernie Sexton and I had the utmost respect for him so you know. Awesome job!
I have always used Banks products and tuners on my 2002 Ford 7.3 diesel, our diesel pusher motorhome and 2011 Jeep Liberty. THANK YOU for excellent products, never a problem.
Tons of bad dyno vids out there. I nvr thouvht I’d see banks straight up roasting fools. 😂❤
❤️❤️❤️ this!!! I love how he approaches things! His standards and methods removal all reasonable doubt.
I'm not a tuner, all my vehicles are 99% bone stock and still I'll watch anything Gale puts out
Great video. Thanks for explaining what we are watching.
When we did dyno emissions at the city I worked for we had a massive fan on wheels. The thing was about 4 feet tall. It was great in hot days during break
The professor has spoken.
Mr. Banks. I beg you, please repeat this dyno test with the stock air box, the s&b, and then your own product and show us the real results!
i could listen to mr. banks talk for hours ahah.
thankyou for your knowledge and breaking everything down sir
Got 2018 Ram 3500 DRW , all Banks intake goodies and IAH delete on my 6.7 Cummins. Very happy, good stuff,thank you Mr. Banks.
I can't help it I always laugh my
A$$ off when gale gets all engineer/old man angry in these videos.
Absolutely love Gale on his straight up no bullshit honesty!
KING OF DATA AND REAL WORLD EXPECTATIONS Hi MR. BANKS i just ordered a 2023 TRX can't wait for an intake & dif cover don't forget about the supercharger whine ..... i stand behind your products period .... Super excited what you and your team come up with !!!!
Great job, Gale! And an object lesson for us to do things right!
Very good, thank God you took the time to help us know right from wrong.
What a wise experienced smartass. Gail you rock man. I appreciate all of your insight and experience
Video of the year 😂. Love it
This is the best series ever!
I learned more about dyno testing in two videos from Gale than I’ve ever learned in 30 years of being into car tuning lol. Well done
So many products presented like that. That's why the end users never duplicate the manufacturer numbers lol. We all know it in time with experience. Beautiful explanation GB.
This man is a national treasure, I want to learn. I read as much as possible, but my real world experience in the last 20 years is limited to fixing normal cars, nothing really performance oriented. Just having some of these pieces of information explains alot about modern advertising..... maybe more about that than it says about performance modifications.
Thanks for fact checking this company. They needed it.
You are a legend and I see why. So damn intelligent and fully plugged in. Wow.
This is why you guys are the best
Love this guy! Thank you Mr. Banks!!
Thanks Gale for a No BS review. A special Thanks for adding a new word to my vocabulary . "Bogosity". That's Awesome!!!
Great Video Sir!!!!!
I only put Banks products on my Chevy HD Duramax, ram air filter, tuner with super gauge, pedal monster, oyster exhaust, and diff cover. Truck runs like a dream, catches people off guard with my acceleration!
Mr Banks you are the man thank you for sharing your knowledge with us thank you again and God bless
Gale I all way love watching your videos, your knowledge that you have (professor).awesome videos
I love your critique of the other guys equipment.
Great job Gale! Now we wait for Banks TRX package! Can’t wait.
That "Wind Machine" is so cool!!
I enjoyed this far too much...lol
Love to see Gale validate the intake in his dyno conditions with his wind machine and see if it makes power or not.
Never cease to impress.
8 minutes in, the test in the video hasn't even started yet, and JLT is already being tore a new one just by going through his setup
God i love Gale's analytic Mind ! XD
That JLT guy had my snake oil salesmen Spidey senses tingling.
@@camberwellcarrot420 It was hilarious seeing him brag about his test process being so much superior to competitors while Gale is liquefying in front of this ^^
I like watching Gale go old school on these young bucks trying to compete with alpha dog
That pause and look of sheer disappointment at 10:24 says it all, without saying a word.
Exactly why Gale and his entire team are the best!!!
This is why I have BANKS products on my trucks!
Gale is a blessing to our industry!
That punk little fan lol love these vids from the diesel vids to these gas one mr.banks sure has a way of explaining these thing perfectly love the vids
lmao this isn't a reaction, it's a roast. Awesome
One of the other issues I find is running the stock grill that has shutters in it that doesn't open up till engine temperature is made and other is on the road at speeds it closes the nose off
Totally awesome video.
I also like the Super Gauge instrument panel! That is so cool!
I love gale banks. Just fricking love this guy
And once again this is why Gale is the king of engines. Math, physics and applied sciences and most of all accurate data that tells the story.
Great video gale!!!
Thank God for Gale Banks
We need more Gale videos
Mr Gale is a trip! Glad I subbed!!
Herrmann Motorenentwicklung in Salzgitter has a very nice dyno. They actually drive the front wheels as well at variable speed. Lot's of other tidbits.
"fact check done. Unfortunately there were no facts"
Ouch 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Came here after seeing alejandro flores react to your video super informative review of what not to do!
Gale knows more about the dan system he made for dyno testing than most of these dudes know about everything involved in their other video. lol. Love listening to Gale talk about stuff. And I'm not even a truck owner. I know where I'll be getting parts when I ever do.
Gale is laying down straight facts. Love it.
Thank god for Gale Banks
Mr Banks is meticulous in his testing and it shows. I would trust his dyno numbers more than some youtube hack like the guy whose video Mr Banks was looking at. His explanation of parasitic losses and real world "street" simulations is spot on.
A true legend and deep pool of automotive knowledge right here folks.
I also like when people do part testing with dyno, and on the day to test original set up, its hot and dry day. And while to test new set up, its cold and raining 😅
Love everything you do Gayle now when are you coming out with the LM2 Duramax tuner? I need it bad instead of the knockoff brands...
Back in the "analog days" of dyno's, shops often would run a vehicle for a minute or two to get the steady power output at WOT. Then, some of us would "power time" stock vehicles with WOT and set the ignition timing to yield max output.
What's off to many of us these days is these shops that use software etc. only do power runs from a slow start then to a rather quick run up to max RPM rather than use the dyno to load the engine to the point it finds what it has got for power. Sources say "the software figures out the power and torque". I got to be more convinced about that.
These shops that try to beat the OEM designs on the budgets they have aren't going very far.
Things have changed significantly since I last used a chassis dyno 44 years ago, mainly the ability to monitor every last little input and output electronically. Hood had to be up to watch the timing while reading the A/F mixture using dual exhaust analyzers that were analog. Sure we had a fan to try and keep things cool, but it was far from real world conditions. It was better than the Butt Dyno is about it. Note to self, beware of JLT alterations.
This old man is a legend and a genius!!! He is smart as hell!!!! This is more consistent with a real class !!!! He just keeps nailing all of the variables like a carpenter!!!! This old man is READY!!!!! GET OFF Gale your impressive to watch!!!!
Gale speaks with wisdom and scientific data. I would love to work under this man. His products work, he doesn't need to skew the results. Doesn't seem to hard to create an apple to apple test.
A great scientific dissection of that video. He has a video ‘response’ called “Gale Banks is Losing it” but with comments disabled and not addressing any of the bad science in his video! He’s definitely not happy 😂
In case you're wondering where to get those 2 Yellow Dyno fans that were on top of the food cart you can go to your local Northern Tool. The are labeled as Strongway Carpet Blowers
Something tells me even a wall of them wouldn't be enough to simulate driving at anything over 25mph.
2:35 - EXACTLY!
To know what any true affects are real world conditions need to be replicated as accurately as possible!
Heck, how often have you folks seen "tuners" doing "engine tests" with no exhaust (even sometimes 'dyno'' special headers) system in place, no air cleaner assembly (including ducting if fitted), no accessories being driven, heck sometimes they use a separate electric motor to drive a mechanical water pump. Then there's those who run the engine at well below actual running temperatures - one "big name" engine builder who had some legal issues a bit back would even do dyno' pulls on COLD engines!
With just those you have at least six reasons why the numbers they come up with mean little - that 200 hp difference between the "engine builder's number" for your 'built engine' and what your hub dyno' is showing you isn't all down to transmission loss bullsh*t, but most of it is their fake numbers not actually being what the engine is making IN THE VEHICLE!
Few years ago I'm pretty sure Engineering Explained muted my comments on his channel just for expressing some skepticism over the ridiculously exceptive titanium axle back he was gushing over back when he had that yellow S2000. He kept insisting that it made like around 5-8hp and all I did was remind him that's pretty much margin of error one day to the next on a dyno. Even something like fluid temps or how tight they strap the car down can have a 5-8hp difference one session to the next. And god only know what the weather and correction values were. Some people get so butthurt over dyno numbers not considering or understanding how challenging it can be to get consistent data out of one.
@@177SCmaro
Do you mean "expensive"?
"Engineering Explained" is a pretty bright, "on it" chap, but if he said something as stupid as claiming a 'power gain' from a lighter compnent, I'd have called him out on that.
The slightly reduced inertia may have shown up as an 'increase' in "power at the wheels", though as less parasitic torque loss would have meant more at the wheel - the flywheel affect!
Personally, I'd consider it to largely be a waste of money and a potential failure point - the better titanium alloys tend to be rather 'notch sensitive', which means cracks can form and propagate quickly to failure, they're more expensive in raw form, are harder to machine, etc. Carbon fiber based components are generally cheaper and as effective - maybe more so.
Yes, there are so many factors that have to be accounted for, that can make small changes, that stacking them up either way can multiply out to a significant difference.
@@gordowg1wg145
Yeah, expensive. Guess I need to update my spell check.
He claimed it dynoed higher and I was skeptical since it still had stock manifold and cat and the fact dynoes can vary a bit. I think he was basically advertising the exhaust without saying he was advertising the exhaust if you know what I mean.
Tests on dyno headers have their use, as does testing without components. Mainly for troubleshooting and setup design.
Whether you use a mechanical or electrical drive for certain accessories are choices where the dyno numbers and your intended use dictate them. Parasitic loss management is far less important in a car with an engine doing 1200hp that's going to be detuned to 1000 in uss than they are in a car with an engine that best case does 700 and the driver wants as close to 600 as possible in the car.
This is why yiu need to vet your tuners and builders and don't believe the bullshit.
@@jediknight1294
Uh, yes - it's just a tool and as such is a guide to what might be expected in the final tune in the application.
Need more Gale reacts
Glad this video is out there. Call out the bs! I only want Banks products on my truck. How can we trust anything else?
I love these vids
Gail is 100% wrong. That is not a 20-in fan LOL it looks to be about 14 in LOL
There is no other product that comes close to the testing and data that banks does.
And there you have it.
I prefer reduced flow rate intercooler and hood open for my gasoline daily driver dyno sessions because it puts the vehicle cooling systems at a disadvantage which helps me see a more worst case scenario situation. A terrible thing you can do on a dyno tuning the vehicle is tune it for an approximated perfect ideal situation. Its fine to simulate real world conditions when collecting maximum output figures but for the safety sanity of tuning intimate details I always tune for the worst possible situation to ensure reliability.
“The apple man” 😂😂😂