Me too, and it’s consistent with 18th century performance practice. Virtuosi would improvise modulating preludes between pieces to connect one far-removed key with another. Mozart even wrote one out for his sister to use because she couldn’t improvise.
@espressonoob Sure, but using a digital audio library of a fortepiano on a digital keyboard, as was done for this video, would let us ignore many of the physical constraints of the real instrument while mostly matching its sound, making for an interesting experiment.
27 movement 2 made me cry. It has to be just about the most beautiful things he has written and hearing it on a piano from when it was composed was really moving.
That movement was not only an important part of my early discovery of Beethoven, but of piano and music in general. Such a special work. Thank you for listening.
What thoroughly lovely performances! And custom transitions, very thoughtful. It’s also informative to follow along with first editions this way. As for the comment about pitch, I’m just grateful they were all tuned the SAME.
Pianoteq does a really good job of synthesizing the sounds of these pianos. Interesting that the greatest evolution in sound is from the first to the second to the third piano -- after that, the changes are much more subtle.
Such a fascinating video. Beautiful playing and (as others have commented) the transitions are brilliantly and sensitively done. Ludwig must be smiling in heaven….and may wondering why you didn’t choose a Bosendorfer 😜
This was a tour de force of presentation! I have a real soft spot for the Graf. It can achieve truly spine-tingling sotto voce pianissimos. Schubert’s Winterreise is a totally different experience when it’s played on a Graf.
Thank you! And I agree - there are certain works that, as beautiful as they might sound on a modern instrument, are utterly transformed on period ones. To me, there is a special kind of lonely quality that can be achieved on an old Graf that does Winterreise justice.
🫡 you got it. Can I ask specifically what you like about this format? the music with transitions, the single composer on different pianos, the variety of historical pianos, or something else?
@@PianoCurio Honestly all of those, like maybe with Mozart/Mendelssohn/JC Bach or with the evolution of the piano starting with Lodovico Giustini's sonatas from the 1730s on a Cristofori fortepiano.
A fascinating video. And a huge thanks from my sensitive ears for your thoughtful transition improvisations. Note to self, call the piano tuner to fix my doorbell.
Pierre-Joseph-Guillaume Zimmermann (1785-1853) spoke in his piano treatise about the inherent dryness of the instrument - something that came across in the samples here quite clearly. Though I took some exception to the interpretations here, overall they made it quite clear how unsuitable music of this era is for the modern instrument. I had the pleasure once of playing the Clementi fortepiano in the DeBellis Collection at SF State. When both the damper pedal and una corda pedal were used simultaneously, the instrument sounded like a harp which means, like the harpsichord, these instruments were capable of changing their colour.
Agreed, it has always been one of my favorites. That melody is just so spacious, warm, and inviting. Beethoven’s more transcendental and epic late works tend to get more attention as opposed to this more laconic and picturesque sonata.
Pianoteq sounds wonderful and really comes alive with your nicely nuanced performances. I have a few questions: how did you modify the presets? (reverb, etc.). And what keyboard do you use?
Thank you, and great question! I play on a Yamaha N1X and tend to use the fast keyboard velocity setting for the very sensitive older pianofortes, otherwise I have a custom one. I used mostly stock recording mic settings with two cardioid mics near, not inside, the piano and 2 omni room mics further back. The reverb is Altiverb, specifically I placed all of the instruments in the Esterhazy palace concert hall, which I thought sounded appropriate to the historic instruments used. Lastly, I increased a couple of the dynamic ranges. The 1780 square piano and 1808 Weimes were so bright on their default settings that I wasn’t able to get the dynamic range I wanted until changing them. Other than reducing a bit of excessive key release noise on the first instrument, I left each instrument’s original sound intact. As someone else commented, I could have also played with different tunings to reflect the variations common in Beethoven’s day, but didn’t think of it for this video.
@@PianoCurio Thanks for the reply! One last question: I am a great admirer of Beethoven's music and I own Pianoteq as well. Is there any possibility to get the MIDI files of your performances? It would be really nice to have them to experiment with different pianos and settings. If you are willing to share them (or sell them), I would definitely be interested.
I liked the first piano first, because it was so clear and easy to hear the notes. The others sounded good, but warmer. It's hard to explain simply. There was better boomy bass in the later pianos, but the clarity was lost to chordal progressions.
I think modern instruments are simply so much better in that thay have far greater dynamic, coloristic, and expressive possibilities than that of period instruments. If Beethoven - or Bach, or any composer of the past - had access to the far superior instruments we have today, they would've never played a fortepiano in the first place. Arguments for period instruments make no sense to me - sure, "authentic" renditions are always fascinating to hear, but let's not pretend that they're anywhere near as good as interpretations on modern instruments.
Beethoven complained that the pianos he played on were too week and he was known for smashing the keys and breaking strings, the modern piano is stronger and the strings don’t break as much
I can't help it, but the sound of the early fortepianos remind me of when as a child, I used to put tacks in the hammers of my piano too make that cowboy saloon piano sound. I had that piano for 40 years!
For the first sonata, i did not research but it says "geschrieben im 10./19. Lebensjahre." That means he was either 10 or -more likely- 19 years old, you wrote "Age: 12". So one of those informations is incorrect😅
Good catch! Beethoven’s father, like Mozart’s, was always telling potential patrons that his genius son was younger than he really was to make him seem like more of a prodigy (which of course he was anyway). I recall reading that even Beethoven mixed his age up due to this throughout his life. So, since this is the earliest edition I could find (n.d but estimated c. 1828), I suspect that some of that misinformation must have been passed down to the publisher. Modern research suggests the three Kurfürsten sonatas, of which this is the first, were written between 1782-1783 when Beethoven would have been around 12. Thanks for calling attention to such an interesting detail!
can someone give me a link for the performance of the first song in this video? I really like the interpretation on a fortepiano and I would very much like to receive the link of the full interpretation
ooh good question! I definitely feel a connection to the 1790 Walter, very expressive in an intimate way with good punchiness to play Bach, Mozart, and early Beethoven. But I also adore mid-19th century Erards and would love to have one of those too. Pianoteq needs more 1850-1900 pianos for sure, if I had a say.
In what collection did you find the 1790 walter ? I've looked through the Karsten, Kremsegg 1 and 2 collections on their website but couldn't find it :(
I use a hybrid piano with an acoustic action as a MIDI controller, so I can plug in any VST instrument I want and record it into a DAW with realistic/nuanced input. And thank you! That bagatelle was the among the last set of piano pieces that Beethoven wrote (or finished, at least).
Interesting point, I didn’t think of that. But still, there was surely plenty of variety before standardization and not every piano was tuned to Beethoven’s personal tuning fork. And do we know if he owned the same tuning fork for his whole life?
@@PianoCurio You’d have to read his biography and see what pianos he had and at what years. Beethoven definitely tuned his own piano as most musicians did in his time but with his deafness, his later pieces were likely composed on an out of tune piano. So there’s a lot of details to consider. And he may have composed some pieces not on his own piano/in his preferred tuning. Also he used well temperament, not equal.
@@TheLifeisgood72 yeah it would involve some guesswork but it’s a cool idea to try to emulate exactly what he would’ve been using. Pianoteq has a condition slider to detune the instruments, so that could work for late Beethoven too, though it would still be a different piano than his favorite Broadwood from the later years. Didn’t consider those things for this video but will for similar projects.
@@PianoCurio I don't think it's such a good idea to try to reproduce Beethoven's actual pianos - I remember one story of his playing in his home, where there were so many broken strings that nobody could make head or tail of the music, except Beethoven himself who was imagining it all in his head because he couldn't hear a thing anyway... But we can legitimately imagine what it would be like to listen to his music played by a virtuoso of his time on the then most up-to-date instrument. Anyway I enjoyed the video very much, Beethoven's music goes beautifully with the instruments of his period.
@@gerardvila4685You are making good point. In addition, as far as I remember Beethoven used to “sing” very loudly and stamp his foot while composing, to the great annoyance of his neighbors of course.
Why arent there more pianoforte records showing us the many limitations of these old insufficiently stringy, colored, tinny machines. I want to try one out see how well if they respond to fingers and idea. Nothing compares to todays communicative instruments! The sonatas after op.53 lose so much. Mendelssohn on these. Chopins Ballades and scherzi lose on these. I cant believe Schumann had to use these things. They composed with the perfection in their heads the notes, lines, voices etc. ARE ON DEE PAGE but not in these oldinstruments.
I love the idea of modulating between the movements
Same!
I like the transitional passages between pieces, too. It makes me imagine Beethoven improvising at the pianoforte.
Me too, and it’s consistent with 18th century performance practice. Virtuosi would improvise modulating preludes between pieces to connect one far-removed key with another. Mozart even wrote one out for his sister to use because she couldn’t improvise.
Nice Cherubini profile picture lol
I love how you added short transitions between the pieces :)
Yes!
Indeed, a long lost tradition....
I really love the percussive sound of the early fortepiano.
I'd love to hear some of the harsher 20th century composers played on it.
@@commentingchannel9776probably would break strings. the piano was developed further for composer needs.
@espressonoob Sure, but using a digital audio library of a fortepiano on a digital keyboard, as was done for this video, would let us ignore many of the physical constraints of the real instrument while mostly matching its sound, making for an interesting experiment.
Everything about this is fantastic, but the transitions are the cherry on top, gorgeous 😍
27 movement 2 made me cry. It has to be just about the most beautiful things he has written and hearing it on a piano from when it was composed was really moving.
That movement was not only an important part of my early discovery of Beethoven, but of piano and music in general. Such a special work. Thank you for listening.
It’s cool to see the evolution of the piano along with the evolution of Beethoven’s music!
Yes. But the best had ideas in their heads that one can barely hear here as op.79 show.
Very “mechanical” tone which I love. These instruments blends the human voice and machine together.
What thoroughly lovely performances! And custom transitions, very thoughtful. It’s also informative to follow along with first editions this way. As for the comment about pitch, I’m just grateful they were all tuned the SAME.
Pianoteq does a really good job of synthesizing the sounds of these pianos.
Interesting that the greatest evolution in sound is from the first to the second to the third piano -- after that, the changes are much more subtle.
the first one sounds like Mozart
your face sounds like mozart
@@bgtvfrtgb6959 Is that remark supposed to sound witty? It sounds utterly dumb. The comment equivalent of stepping into dog shit.
I agree, it’s definitely the alberti bass at the beginning.
後期古典と前期古典では全くの別物と言っても良いくらいです。
後期古典の代表格はベートーヴェンとフンメルで、前期古典の代表格はモーツァルト、クレメンティ、ハイドンなどです。
クレメンティは長寿でロマン派黎明期まで活躍し、ハイドンもその少し前までは生きました。
古典前期はモーツァルトで終わりで、後期古典派ベートーヴェンからの世代です。
ただ勘違いしてはいけないのは、モーツァルトの晩年は後期古典派の様な特徴を持った作品もありますし、ベートーヴェンの初期は前期古典派の特徴が強いです。
それにベートーヴェンやフンメル、カルクブレンナーの様な後期古典の世代はロマン派黎明期にも相当する作曲家な為、一概に古典派だと言う認識は間違いです。
That bagatelle is extraordinarily beautiful!
As the piano improved, his hearing deteriorated. He hears, now-in heaven!
Very interesting, I'd rather listen to this than the modern big black monster any day of the week. Love the transitions!
It’s certainly a different experience, thank you!
Such a fascinating video. Beautiful playing and (as others have commented) the transitions are brilliantly and sensitively done. Ludwig must be smiling in heaven….and may wondering why you didn’t choose a Bosendorfer 😜
So glad to hear that you enjoyed the video and the channel, thank you and welcome aboard!
This is an incredibly well-made video, oh my god
This was a tour de force of presentation! I have a real soft spot for the Graf. It can achieve truly spine-tingling sotto voce pianissimos. Schubert’s Winterreise is a totally different experience when it’s played on a Graf.
Thank you! And I agree - there are certain works that, as beautiful as they might sound on a modern instrument, are utterly transformed on period ones. To me, there is a special kind of lonely quality that can be achieved on an old Graf that does Winterreise justice.
I love the idea of indicating WHICH SORT of instrument we are listening at !
Fantastic concept and execution. Gorgeous sounds. This earned you a subscriber, and you deserve many more. Cheers.
Very interesting & many thanks , the extract from the late sonata E minor was very touching , beautiful music making😊😊😊😊
This is genuinely one of my favorite videos and I’d LOVE to see more in this style in the future
🫡 you got it. Can I ask specifically what you like about this format? the music with transitions, the single composer on different pianos, the variety of historical pianos, or something else?
@@PianoCurio Honestly all of those, like maybe with Mozart/Mendelssohn/JC Bach or with the evolution of the piano starting with Lodovico Giustini's sonatas from the 1730s on a Cristofori fortepiano.
Beautiful
A fascinating video.
And a huge thanks from my sensitive ears for your thoughtful transition improvisations.
Note to self, call the piano tuner to fix my doorbell.
Beethoven must be smiling in heaven… bravo 🎉
Pierre-Joseph-Guillaume Zimmermann (1785-1853) spoke in his piano treatise about the inherent dryness of the instrument - something that came across in the samples here quite clearly. Though I took some exception to the interpretations here, overall they made it quite clear how unsuitable music of this era is for the modern instrument. I had the pleasure once of playing the Clementi fortepiano in the DeBellis Collection at SF State. When both the damper pedal and una corda pedal were used simultaneously, the instrument sounded like a harp which means, like the harpsichord, these instruments were capable of changing their colour.
Thank you so much for this! You're doing the world a great service!
sounds fantastic! Would love to hear you play some Schubert as well.
Greetings from Vienna
not sure why, but the tone of the earlier pianos has a almost comical quality. Wonderful playing, it was coo lhearing the tone develop.
thank you for this videooo
Piano sonata no. 27 is so beautiful yet so underrated
Agreed, it has always been one of my favorites. That melody is just so spacious, warm, and inviting. Beethoven’s more transcendental and epic late works tend to get more attention as opposed to this more laconic and picturesque sonata.
Pianoteq sounds wonderful and really comes alive with your nicely nuanced performances. I have a few questions: how did you modify the presets? (reverb, etc.). And what keyboard do you use?
Thank you, and great question! I play on a Yamaha N1X and tend to use the fast keyboard velocity setting for the very sensitive older pianofortes, otherwise I have a custom one.
I used mostly stock recording mic settings with two cardioid mics near, not inside, the piano and 2 omni room mics further back. The reverb is Altiverb, specifically I placed all of the instruments in the Esterhazy palace concert hall, which I thought sounded appropriate to the historic instruments used.
Lastly, I increased a couple of the dynamic ranges. The 1780 square piano and 1808 Weimes were so bright on their default settings that I wasn’t able to get the dynamic range I wanted until changing them. Other than reducing a bit of excessive key release noise on the first instrument, I left each instrument’s original sound intact. As someone else commented, I could have also played with different tunings to reflect the variations common in Beethoven’s day, but didn’t think of it for this video.
@@PianoCurio Thanks for the reply! One last question: I am a great admirer of Beethoven's music and I own Pianoteq as well. Is there any possibility to get the MIDI files of your performances? It would be really nice to have them to experiment with different pianos and settings.
If you are willing to share them (or sell them), I would definitely be interested.
6:10 wait a minute.....🤨🤨🤨
👀👀👀
Piano Sonata no.5: 1796
5th Symphony: 1804-1808
26th Piano Sonata: 1809
So it's kinda accurate in time, too!
Thank you
so cool
Most beautiful and interesting.
Very good
Nice video! Can you do the same for Mozart?
Thank you, and great idea! I’ll add it to the list
Very noice!
I liked the first piano first, because it was so clear and easy to hear the notes. The others sounded good, but warmer. It's hard to explain simply. There was better boomy bass in the later pianos, but the clarity was lost to chordal progressions.
This deserves more views!
Period instruments will always be superior to modern ones considering they are what he wrote for.
I think modern instruments are simply so much better in that thay have far greater dynamic, coloristic, and expressive possibilities than that of period instruments. If Beethoven - or Bach, or any composer of the past - had access to the far superior instruments we have today, they would've never played a fortepiano in the first place. Arguments for period instruments make no sense to me - sure, "authentic" renditions are always fascinating to hear, but let's not pretend that they're anywhere near as good as interpretations on modern instruments.
Beethoven complained that the pianos he played on were too week and he was known for smashing the keys and breaking strings, the modern piano is stronger and the strings don’t break as much
Wrong.
I can't help it, but the sound of the early fortepianos remind me of when as a child, I used to put tacks in the hammers of my piano too make that cowboy saloon piano sound. I had that piano for 40 years!
Another subscriber
I would like a link for the full interpretation of the first song in the video
Interesting
For the first sonata, i did not research but it says "geschrieben im 10./19. Lebensjahre." That means he was either 10 or -more likely- 19 years old, you wrote "Age: 12". So one of those informations is incorrect😅
Good catch! Beethoven’s father, like Mozart’s, was always telling potential patrons that his genius son was younger than he really was to make him seem like more of a prodigy (which of course he was anyway). I recall reading that even Beethoven mixed his age up due to this throughout his life. So, since this is the earliest edition I could find (n.d but estimated c. 1828), I suspect that some of that misinformation must have been passed down to the publisher. Modern research suggests the three Kurfürsten sonatas, of which this is the first, were written between 1782-1783 when Beethoven would have been around 12. Thanks for calling attention to such an interesting detail!
@@PianoCurio Ah, thats new to me, thank you for the information, much appreciated:)
can someone give me a link for the performance of the first song in this video? I really like the interpretation on a fortepiano and I would very much like to receive the link of the full interpretation
Ronald Brautigam has recorded all of them on a fortepiano and they are excellent: ruclips.net/video/a_Ix47XyLEo/видео.htmlsi=vMkwkOBEVg_MMFKj
If you could, what early piano would you love to have in your collection?
ooh good question! I definitely feel a connection to the 1790 Walter, very expressive in an intimate way with good punchiness to play Bach, Mozart, and early Beethoven. But I also adore mid-19th century Erards and would love to have one of those too. Pianoteq needs more 1850-1900 pianos for sure, if I had a say.
In what collection did you find the 1790 walter ? I've looked through the Karsten, Kremsegg 1 and 2 collections on their website but couldn't find it :(
@@jean-naymar602 it’s one of the KIViR instruments, which are freely available with any collection I believe
@@PianoCurio Thanks !
So did you download the piano model for an electronic keyboard? How does one go about that? Lovely performance. I especially like the Bagatelles.
I use a hybrid piano with an acoustic action as a MIDI controller, so I can plug in any VST instrument I want and record it into a DAW with realistic/nuanced input. And thank you! That bagatelle was the among the last set of piano pieces that Beethoven wrote (or finished, at least).
@@PianoCurio Thanks!
some pianos almost sound like a guitar
Intenta parecerse a Mozart pero no lo consigue ,aunque ya es un genio indiscutible con propia personalidad
Now play it at the correct pitch for Beethoven (A=456hz)
Interesting point, I didn’t think of that. But still, there was surely plenty of variety before standardization and not every piano was tuned to Beethoven’s personal tuning fork. And do we know if he owned the same tuning fork for his whole life?
@@PianoCurio You’d have to read his biography and see what pianos he had and at what years. Beethoven definitely tuned his own piano as most musicians did in his time but with his deafness, his later pieces were likely composed on an out of tune piano. So there’s a lot of details to consider. And he may have composed some pieces not on his own piano/in his preferred tuning.
Also he used well temperament, not equal.
@@TheLifeisgood72 yeah it would involve some guesswork but it’s a cool idea to try to emulate exactly what he would’ve been using. Pianoteq has a condition slider to detune the instruments, so that could work for late Beethoven too, though it would still be a different piano than his favorite Broadwood from the later years. Didn’t consider those things for this video but will for similar projects.
@@PianoCurio I don't think it's such a good idea to try to reproduce Beethoven's actual pianos - I remember one story of his playing in his home, where there were so many broken strings that nobody could make head or tail of the music, except Beethoven himself who was imagining it all in his head because he couldn't hear a thing anyway... But we can legitimately imagine what it would be like to listen to his music played by a virtuoso of his time on the then most up-to-date instrument. Anyway I enjoyed the video very much, Beethoven's music goes beautifully with the instruments of his period.
@@gerardvila4685You are making good point. In addition, as far as I remember Beethoven used to “sing” very loudly and stamp his foot while composing, to the great annoyance of his neighbors of course.
Why arent there more pianoforte records showing us the many limitations of these old insufficiently stringy, colored, tinny machines. I want to try one out see how well if they respond to fingers and idea. Nothing compares to todays communicative instruments! The sonatas after op.53 lose so much. Mendelssohn on these. Chopins Ballades and scherzi lose on these. I cant believe Schumann had to use these things. They composed with the perfection in their heads the notes, lines, voices etc. ARE ON DEE PAGE but not in these oldinstruments.
Too fast
These pianos are too twangy for my taste.