They sound "out of tune" to our modern ears, but in the past pianos were tuned at a lower pitch, so actually pianos are not out of tune. Pleyel, for example, is tuned according to its period. But Scriabin's piano really out of tone :)
Out of tune? Or out of tone? There’s a difference. Piano’s themselves were built different back then which results in a different tone compared to todays modern pianos or pianos in 20th century really. Temperament wise I believe there were mean tone most of them played in until equal temperament became the norm. I’m not sure entirely though on the dates and accuracy of that
@@randyclar747 Beethoven's, Mozarts and even Chopin's piano's are closer to 200 years old, those are very much different from what we are used to know and that explains most of the difference in tone.
Somehow each piano's sound suits each composer's style. Beethoven's threw me for a loop. And Liszt's - it had such a responsiveness, such an immediacy to it.
Pianos in Beethoven's time lacked the sustain that later instruments acquired, giving them a more percussive sound. In about 1985 I had the pleasure of hearing some Beethoven played live on a period appropriate piano. It was a strange and memorable experience.
Beethoven did not need to sit at the piano when composing, he could write the music notation and know how it would sound, just as well given his deafness. It is known that he was very frustrated and would put his head on the piano to feel the vibrations
Beethoven was ahead of his time and the pianos of his period could not handle His modern music then. A fortepiano built 20 yrs later is probably more suited for his music esp the late period
What the piano could do very much affected the music played on it. This phenomenon is well known and understood across the whole range of musical instruments.
That La campanella was so clean and pure. such great use of the pedal and the notes are not overly exaggerated or forced. How I imagine Chopin would have played it :)
@@martonandorka No no, I meant Chopin :) As far as I have come to understand Chopin in my readings he did not have a big sound when he played, which is what most pianists go for when they play this piece these days with grand dynamics and overly sonorous tempo. This interpretation focuses on what Chopin did very well which was to articulate and phrase cleanly accomplished with very economical use of the pedal.
@@martonandorka Do you have trouble with reading comprehension? If English is not your first language, maybe you shouldn't try to correct people who know what they are saying.
This doesn't seem too far off from what we have today! But i bet more than anything he would have loved the faster and lighter actions on certain keyboards.
Eff Liszt. Beethoven & Mozart didn't have very good pianos in their day. Beethoven would have benefited best of all as his music was pushing pianos of his day to the limit. By the time Liszt came around, pianos were close to what they are today.
That’s whyChopin preferred Pleyel, producing much softer sound, than Steinway. It was perfect for his very small and sophisticated, aristocratic audience.
@@stonefireice6058 Steinway pianos didn't exist until after Chopin died... Apparently the guy that posted this video & 18 others didn't know any better.
@@marblemadness8870 Steinway's founder and manufacturer of the brand's first pianos, Henry E. Steinway, he was producing pianos in Germany under the name Steinweg (Steinway and Steinweg are the same, Steinway in English). He has produced pianos since 1817 and in 1839, he exhibited three pianos at the state trade exhibition in Braunschweig, Germany and was awarded a gold medal. In 1839, Chopin was alive. Steinway & Sons may have been founded in the 1850s, but that's just a renaming of the Steinweg brand to suit America. So Steinway and Steinweg are the same, and the name "Steinway & Sons" is just the branding of the founder there to move to America and Steinway's production of grand pianos dates back to 1835.
I love how Beethoven’s piano sounds like it has 2 completely different Timbres at different dynamics and you can effortlessly gradually change between the two. One of my favourite things to do on modern grand pianos, is to press the lower keys as softly as I can and hear how the low frequencies fill the room.
This is what I imagined Liszt's La Campanella to sound like on Liszt's piano, and I really like Kocsis here; both the instrument and pianist are precise. I'm glad I was not disappointed.
i love how you have the full pieces for each recording. It proves that you are a true classical musician! Some channels would only include the start of exciting parts. Thanks for the video!
Modern “Presentation”… not necessarily asked for, but since science says playing the exciting parts and flashing images left and right makes you look at the screen that much longer… ¡Au contraire! …the music [and it’s performance] when done with skill, dedication to the piece, and gusto, is all you need.
Do you even know what being a musician entails? Listening to music makes you a music lover or connoisseur. Playing an instrument might make you a musician, but a real musician means you understand music theory as well. Music is not just about playing an instrument. You have to understand relationships between chords, tempi, notation, etc... As for classical... Geez guy, you really need to get a musical education. Other than Mozart's Fantasia, there is no "true" classical music in this video.
@@marblemadness8870 Debussy: “There is no theory. You have only to listen. Pleasure is the law." I know music theory and I have compositions, but I think your approach is a bit conservative. Some of what you say is understandable, but knowing music theory does not make you a musician (also yes, listening to music doesn't make a musician either). This is also the case for many composers and composition teachers. For Messiean, for example, that terms such as "tonal", "modal" and "serial" are misleading analytical conveniences. Many composers of the Romantic period also composed based on their instruments, not theoretically. But you're probably against it. I wish you to read Mozart's letters to his father. Mozart will also object to what you say :).
Thank you. The works and the interpretations are a whole, which I think is also an important thing, I'm glad you noticed that. As much as I can, I try to give the records in their entirety. Unfortunately, people judge piano interpretations by only listening to certain attractive parts of the recordings. It's like judging a movie by looking at a scene. But of course, I also understand that people may not have much time or RUclips pushes them to do this for creator. I also thought of making a video by "shortening" a few times, I tried to convince myself that "whoever likes these will listen to the whole thing later", but that didn't really work for me, I think this is a bit against the spirit of classical music.
These are all pianos that the composers owned for only a couple of years at the end of their lives, but this is still such a cool video, and really gives you a good feel for their music and how they might have heard it! ❤️
I was out of the room at 4:457 and knew straight away it was Beethoven's piano... what a POWERHOUSE of a piano! I'm also not a pianist but a violinist, violist and composer
Agree with the previous comment…. The pianist play like he was playing to a metronome, impeccable timing, effortless playing, as though he himself had written the piece. Astonishing that these instruments are still in existence after centuries of use! How many of you besides me with love to get their hands on any one of those pianos? I somehow doubt they will ever appear on the open market for sale, because they are absolutely priceless. Their original owners literally wrote the foundation of all classical music that we love and adore to this very day and beyond! It would be an honour just to be able to play it, even to touch it, because you would be touching such a huge part of human history, it’s almost beyond comprehension for me. Ever since I was a small boy, I’ve been absolutely fascinated, hypnotized, and bewildered by the sound of classical piano, makes one question if reincarnation actually exists, because it all feels so comfortable and familiar, as though I’m just listening to something I’ve heard 1 million times before but not in this life. Does that make any sense to anybody?
"The pianist play like he was playing to a metronome, impeccable timing, effortless playing, as though he himself had written the piece." - is this a deteremining quality nowadays? Playing to metronome and "impeccable timing"? 🤦🏻
23:56 I didnt expect this part too sound soo rich and full and amazing with the age of the piano and all, boy was I wrong. Sounds absolutely incredible!
My grandmother, who studied music, was given a Bechnstein grand for her 21st and I was lucky to learn piano from my mother on that same piano. As a young adult I thought all pianos sounded like Nanna's. How blissful if they did.
Bechstein still retained some aspects of their 1890-1914 great period in grands made right up until 1994. But since the factory relocated to Seifhennersdof under new management, the instruments now are radically different, much louder. They've lost that precious sweetness, forever. Pity.
@@studentjohn35 They‘re still the best brand along with Bösendorfer, even today. Modern Bechsteins still have that very wooden sound and still have the almost bell-like upper register that works so well with Impressionist and late Romantic music. I don‘t know if the key action got lighter or was always very heavy, it’s not necessarily easy to play super fast on a modern Bechstein. That being said, the 19th century/early 20th century Bechsteins are irreplaceable!
I prefer old pianos. Because the contrast doesn't come out better? The polyphonic side is better. The sonority of pianos is narrow, but thanks to this, the piece sounds wider and larger. The sound is not mechanical but more natural, warm to me, especially Chopin and Liszt's pianos, Chopin's Pleyel is very fascinating, more convincing than the modern piano. It has a singing voice... Actually, I think the best are the pre-WWII pianos. Because they have the tone and structure of old pianos, but they have wide sonority like modern pianos.
We must also remember that modern pianos like Steinways are designed to be played in large halls to an audience of thousands, while the pianos of Mozart and even Beethoven's day were designed for small rooms and halls with an audience of at most a few hundred. Of course, modern amplification can - in theory - make a clavichord sound as loud as a concert grand. Its is horses for courses. Andras Schiff uses a Steinway for Beethoven but a Bosendorfer for Schubert. I remember going to hear Pascal Devoyon (just after his superb performance at the 1975 Leeds) in his first Wigmore Hall recital, and was rather disappointed as I thought he played far too loudly. He had not yet learned how to adjust his dynamics to the size and acoustics of the (rather small) hall.
@@saltburner2 The same can be said for Chopin. Chopin didn't want to perform in big concert venues because the audience couldn't hear him playing! That's why he preferred small halls. Actually, he could play louder, but he thought the sound was distorted, for which the piano wasn't enough yet.
@@OzanFabienGuvener Interesting. I think Liszt used an erard for concerts before retiring from the stage and I think Chopin used Pleyel. I think Gould preferred an early model steinway compared to the later models.
@@ignacioclerici5341 I think he mainly played a model d Steinway grand from 1931 and a cd 318 from 1943? But didn’t like the sound of later Steinways and when his 318 was damaged and couldn’t be repaired he used a Yamaha toward the end. I was thinking he used more earlier models but I think the 1931 was his main earliest one for a lot of recording. I think he found the sound of later steinways too heavy
Another wonderful compilation. I've actually seen and touched the organ on which Handel played in the parish church near Cannons. It was not in working order, and is not normally on public view.
You may know that Gustav Holst's Broadwood, on which he composed The Planets (originally for 4 hands, before he orchestrated it) was recently completely restored in the Broadwood factory at Lythe, near Whitby, and returned to London where the 4-hand version was played in public. There are clips on RUclips.
@@OzanFabienGuvener It was in our local news - I live not far from Whitby, and pass the Broadwood factory when I go there. I do have an earlier piano recording of The Planets, but not on Holst's Broadwood.
While Liszt’s piano, Mozart’s, Chopin’s, as well as Bach’s organ at the St. Thomas Church (not in video) are wonderful, For me, the modern pianos move me the most. Perhaps it’s the recording quality, or for sentimental/nostalgic reasons, but Horowitz’s piano is so wonderful to my ears. However, my favourite piano would have to be Glenn Gould’s CD 318 Steinway. It just does something different to me. You listen to his recordings enough, and you begin to recognize it, like a loved ones voice. It just sings so beautifully. Great video as always :)
Again, thank you for another fabulous compilation. The rapid decay, especially in the bass, is what most distunguishes the older instuments from the modern ones. It is impossible to play Chopin on today's instruments with the trasparancy of the older instruments for this reason. Nevertheless it seems fruitless to abandon or prefer either one. Somehow this music perseveres through time. When I listen to someone like Jeseph Lhevinne I am acutely aware that time has stopped for him and that he poured his whole soul into that repertoire. For this video I was most shocked by the percussiveness of the Beethoven and the incredible dissonence generated in the Mozart.
Mozart actually has some very dissonant works, I think this character is more effective here! Maybe I can prefer pianos after 1900's for Mozart's more lyrical pieces, but when it comes to pieces like this, I can say that old pianofortes sound better. I think Chopin is also losing something in modern pianos (I mean 21st century pianos). As you said, the biggest reason is the difference in bass.
@@OzanFabienGuvener I fell this issue is worth further exploration. The problem of technique enters in here as the vintage keyboards are comfortable under the hand, and what we call technique today plays no role. The trade off with modern instruments is that the use of the body has become athletic to an extreme in order to project the power of the instruments. Poor training in this area led to an epidemic of injuries towards the end of the 20th century. (Leon Fleischer has said he wished he had listened to his teacher.) Unfortunately, the cultivation of proper technique has also led to a general split between technique and interpretation. Horowitz' various recordings of Chopin's F Minor Nocturne show that it is still possible to show Chopin's mastery of contrapuntal writing on the modern piano. Angela Hewitt and Grigory Sokolov have both produced delightful and astounding videos of Couperin's Le Tic Toc Choc. For Mozart I prefer the forte-piano. Glen Gould showed the absurdity of trying to play Mozart on the modern piano.
@@dhollandpiano There were probably some mechanical differences in Horowitz's piano; The mechanism and weight were lightened, and his piano tuner Franz Mohr was making some special adjustments. Judging by what Horowitz said, one of his ultimate goals was to create contrast and achieve vocal timbre and legato; this is close to Chopin's approach. He always took his own piano and Franz Mohr always had it with him. I think the mechanical changes made to Horowitz's modern piano bring it closer to older pianos. I agree with the other things you said.
@@OzanFabienGuvener The interesting thing about these recordings is that the sonorities of the instruments illuminate the pieces brilliantly. I agree - clearly Horowitz wanted to retro-modify his modern, heavy grand piano, to allow for more brilliant finger technique and vocal line, instead of 'bass-heavy' sonority. Putting emotions and tempi to the side, technically he was a very clean and 'dry' player with less reliance on the sustaining pedal, even in Scriabin or Rachmaninoff, or Liszt. The first recording I heard of Beethoven's 'Diabelli' Variations was a now forgotten or deleted version by Helmut Waltl (I think) on a fortepiano. It was revelatory, and blazed itself into my mind, not only because of the ingenuity of the music (and the sunshine at that time) but because it was also probably Beethoven's own sound, and the many variations exploited the sonic possibilities of that instrument in a way that re-shaped my understanding. Who, having heard this, can forget the tones of pianos of that time, and the challenges they were set by those composers? Op. 111 in this video awakens the same feelings. There is a huge variety of possible tone colours which have been muted (although the trade-off for those who can master the modern grand piano is incredible clarity, tone production and power).
@@tomowenpianochannel I agree. As you said, the most striking thing here is that these instruments illuminate the works and show the composer's mind more clearly! It should not be forgotten that pianists such as Hofmann, Horowitz and Gould highly personalized their pianos and made changes in their mechanisms. That's why I hesitate to call their pianos modern, because it is clear that they are inspired by some old pianos. I thought the same thing as you in Paul Badura-Skoda's Beethoven recordings with pianoforte. I don't know the Beethoven recording of Helmut you mentioned, but I was curious, I hope I can find it, if I find it, I'll share it with you! Thank you for this comment.
Merci beaucoup for this, and very interesting comments. Especially about Chopin's strength. That's something that interests me since I treated pianists (and others) and used muscle testing for the majority of my diagnosis. And since I suffered a shoulder injury, I had to change my techniques which broadened the patient population since I didn't do traditional vertebral manipulation techniques. And I became quite the specialist on shoulder problems...as well as the arm and hands. I hope to have a video soon showing exercises pianists can do for their low back, as well as for the shoulder and hands. Exercises and self treatments, especially good for that fifth finger.
I would appreciate if you can really make those videos happen. I'm a pianist myself and have been straining my shoulders quite a bit from playing. My middle finger is also injured and I have not dared to resume my practice for weeks. I hope you can provide some insights...
@@M419.99 It's filmed but my daughter has to edit it. She has two other films she is doing so it's taking more time than we thought. Once it's done, I think I'll do Zoom videos for individual cases.
Encore bravo pour toutes vos extraordinaires compilations et pour le travail colossal que ça doit représenter de chercher toutes ces merveilles et d'en faire ces vidéos fabuleuses !
Fascinating, thanks for sharing those famous pianos of great composers! I took lessons from a great teacher, a graduate of Julliard and had lessons on Steinway grands, and my own piano is a Knabe with a little brass plaque on the inside of the lid that says "Official piano of the Metropolitan Opera House 1928'. I'm a lifelong pianist/composer and composed a full length American folk opera which has been performed in public and I've played on Chickering pianos, an old Boston piano manufacturer. The Boston Museum of Fine Arts also has an interesting collection of antique musical instruments like harpsichords and lutes as well! Wonderful to hear the different sounds and pianists here.
In my opinion, Chopin found the tone of the Pleyel piano close to the naturalness of the human voice and preferred it because it could give its own characteristic sound color. Chopin: 'When i feel out of sorts, I play on an Erard piano where I easily find a ready-made tone. But when I feel in good form and strong enough to find my own individual sound, then I need a Pleyel piano.' Emilie von Gretsch (Chopin's pupil): 'Until now I have worked more on heavy keyboards than on light ones: this has greatly strengthened my fingers. However, on this type of piano it is impossible to obtain the subtlest nuances with movements of the wrist and forearm, as well as of each individual finger. These nuances - I've experienced them as Chopin's on his beautiful piano, with its touch so close to that of the Viennese instruments. He himself calls it 'a perfidious traitor' [un traitre perfide]. Things that came out perfectly on my solid and robust Erard became abrupt and ugly on Chopin's piano.9 He found it dangerous to work much on an instrument with a beautiful ready-made sound like the Erard. He said these instruments spoil one's touch: 'You can thump it and bash it, it makes no difference: the sound is always beautiful and the ear doesn't ask for anything more since it hears a full, resonant tone.'
@@OzanFabienGuvener Thanks for the response. That's very interesting indeed. As a classical guitarist you notice that tone differs massively from guitar to guitar. It never crossed my mind that it would be the same for pianists. I think it's because you so often see the same grand piano being played today. It's interesting to hear that for Chopin it's a well thought out choice what piano to use when.
@@soulbreather666 As you said, most pianists use the same pianos today, and all brands have lost their individual voice. So of course there is a difference, but not as much as in the past. Before the Second World War, both pianists used very different pianos (Blüthner, Bechstein, Steinway, Bösendorfer, Erard, Baldwin etc.) and the pianos had a more distinctive timbre. Unfortunately, Pleyel has not been producing pianos since 2013. Steinway is very common, but this is not because of the quality of the piano, the brand gave many concessions to the pianists who chose it. Chopin's choice of piano depending on the situation is really interesting. Although his primary piano was always Pleyel. Some of the pianists change the piano according to the piece, but they did not change the piano depending on the mood.
I was in Greig's home years ago and asked for permission to play some sections of his Concerto on the piano in his living room. Permission was denied. I explained that I could actually play it, but that was not enough. I suppose I was not the first person to ask this. Sanjosemike (no longer in CA)
@@OzanFabienGuvener Ozan, thanks for writing. It would have been fun to play it on his own piano. I would have had my wife take a picture of me playing it. I wouldn't obviously play the entire work, probably just the Cadenza. I can't imagine that it would have "harmed" the instrument. Can you? Sanjosemike (no longer in CA)
@@sanjosemike3137 It won't harm the piano if played this way, but I also understand that if it's public, someone might play it hard and the piano might be damaged.
@@OzanFabienGuvener After two minutes or less for me to start the Cadenza, they would know I can play it. I guess I believed I deserved a chance. But the piano is irreplaceable. Sanjosemike (no longer in CA)
The Horowitz recording came to my mind, but I didn't add it because he plays Rachmaninov on the Tchaikovsky piano, but yes I forgot Pletnev, it should have been his recording in this video! Just listened to it again, Pletnev's recording is very good, I'm sorry it's not in this video. Thank you.
An extraodinary compilation of historical pianos. Congratulations . Information: the Steinway & Sons Concert Grand No 182 (1860) Braunschweig-New York in brazilian Rosewood, with the signature of Comte Hans von Bülow (first husband of Cosima Liszt, later wife of Richard Wagner) on it´s sounboard, is in private hands and is being sold. Contacts Klavierhaus New York. Mr Reisinger.
Thank you for the upload. Very well done! Also appreciated your thoughtful responses to a number of the posts. You have, for the most part, a very cultured and appreciative subscriber group. I'm in. SUBSCRIBED! 😃👍
@@patryk4323 Fantastic, enjoy! Are other Koczalski's Pleyel recordings available? For example, the first ballad. I think Koczalski's Chopin Pleyel recordings are his best recordings, along with the Chopin 2nd concerto recording.
@@OzanFabienGuvener Yes i Got also prelude op. 28 nr. 7, nocturne op. 9 nr. 2,berceuse op. 57, nocturne op. 32 nr. 1 and waltz op. 64 nr. 2. In all of them Raul Koczalski played Chopin.
The keys on Liszt's Bechstein are very very heavy. I played on it once, no other piano I ever played required that much physical effort to push down the keys.
@@willardsteele4857 Franz Mohr, who was Chief Concert Technician for Steinway and who prepared pianos for Vladimir Horowitz and Artur Rubinstein, told me that Rubinstein preferred a heavy action and that he would have hated Horowitz's piano, which had an extraordinarily light action (I played that piano twice, once in 1990, when it was still exactly as Horowitz wanted it, and then in 2003, when Steinway had turned it into an ordinary Model D, destroying a bit of history). I have a Mason and Hamlin BB that Franz's son Peter rebuilt for me. Franz worked on it too and signed one of the keys on its side. Sadly, both are gone now.
Liszt: hey, that's my piano, on top of that you are too slow, you offend me Beethoven: damn bastard, tHaT's mY pIAno dOn't tOUcH it! ARGHH!! Mozart: can't you touch it worse? HAHAHAHA YOU ARE SO BAD Chopin: look, if you're going to play my piano at least do it in a romantic, passionate way, if not, then go away Alexander: ...
I remember seeing a beautiful white grand piano with gold candlestick holders on sale at Harrods some sixty years ago. It was priced at 3,000 guineas and when I enquired I was told it had belonged to Marie Antoinette.
@@miguelisaurusbruh1158 a lot of them have been perfectly restored, but sound wildly different. A historian was once asked, “if you were to drop Chopin into the 21st century, what would you show him?” He replied, “firstly, he would probably not recognize the sound of the modern piano.” Something like that I don’t remember the exact quotes lol
@@imdarealani There is a metaphorical and exaggerated usage here, as you said, and I think Hough implied that: Chopin's playing style is not suitable for modern pianos. Also, old pianos have a tenor/baritone/bass distinction, which is suitable for the polyphony Chopin wanted.
I thought the pianist playing Liszt, and the crisp sound of the piano, was mesmerising. I was disappointed in the quality of Beethoven's piano, which didn't do his amazing compositions justice. However, he was completely deaf by 1825...after hearing that, I expected Mozart's piano to sound more like a harpsichord being 40 years older, but it sounded more like a modern piano than Beethoven's. I like that Andras Schiff played that piece, which is so unlike anything else I've heard from Mozart and feel that he was really bearing his soul. Chopin's Pleyel piano really brought out the beauty of his softer pieces, but it lacked the punch to make the first tune sound crisp enough in my opinion. I loved Scriabin's composition; it's the first time I heard it. I quite liked the piano, but some of the high notes sounded like they were 'splitting'; it didn't age as well as the others.
Strange to think the original composers likely played the exact combination and order of notes that the performers are playing, just in their own different style that we'll never truly get to understand.
Speaking about their -old pianos we should not neglect the fact that composers did also use old unequal tunings until ~1900. In the german domain the theoretical book of Bachs disciple Kirnberger was very influencial. Kirnberger explained why equal temperament is a bad idea: because it would make all Keys sound similar. He then propsed a tunign which is today called Kirnberger II. Towards the end of his live he further improved it, but only in a letter that was published much later. With this Kirnberger III even the remote keys sound well, yet each key shows a character of its own.
Some of these are fortepianos (no metal frame on which the strings are strung) and these are parallel strung. That's an important detail as it impacts the sonic character. Erard and Pleyel in Chopin's age were still parallel strung (Barenboim has had a grand piano made that was parallel strung - I heard him play it and it sounded right - my problem was his selection of repertoire that he no longer fully mastered).
I can only imagine the sheer joy of playing a piece of music on the composer's own piano... WOW. Do you know who actually made these pianos? I know that violins have different sounds depending on their maker & the wood used but I didn't know pianos did as well. I love learning something new every day. Thank You.
Same as violin makers Guarneri, Amati and Stradivari. As far as I know (I'm not very knowledgeable on this subject), the names of these brands already come from their creator; There are people working under them, but they were the head of the overall design and construction. Camille Pleyel and Robert Wornum made Chopin's Pleyel. While Liszt's Bechstein was being made, the brand was headed by its founder, Carl Bechstein. Mozart's piano was also made by Anton Walter. Beethoven's piano player is also made by Conrad Graf.
Forgot Tiffany Poon’s recording of Liebestod on Wagner’s piano 🥲. There are also several videos of people playing Ravel’s piano (if you make a sequel video)
Actually, I didn't forget, but you know, Wagner has almost no compositions for the piano and he is not known as a pianist, I chose the composers in the video where the piano is important. But it was really nice to listen to Wagner on that piano... I'll check it out for Ravel, thanks!
Liszt's Bechstein sounds fantastic, and the performance is wonderful. Jorge Bolet played the Bechstein - I knew his tuner, who told me that Bolet said "it plays itself". The performance of Op 111 is bizarre: the double dotting in the opening is ignored, as are many of the composer's dynamics. And the piano sounds foul. Mozart's piano sounds far better than Beethoven's. A pity that Scriabins's piano is so badly out of tune. Alfred Cortot played the Pleyel, and his recordings sound divine.
Pleyel's pre-WWII pianos are truly satisfying and close to Chopin's Pleyel. Wanda Landowska has Mozart recordings on Pleyel piano, she has a beautiful vocal line like Cortot. It is understandable why someone like Chopin who seeks the "human voice" on the piano would prefer Pleyel. It's a shame that this brand has now stopped production. When I compare Beethoven and Mozart pianos, I prefer Mozart too, but I think Beethoven's piano also has a strange charm. I don't know why they didn't tune Scriabin's piano.Thanks for sharing the anecdote with Bolet!
There is a sixth pianist , not very well-known for me Great Nelson Goerner who plays also on a piano of Chopin 's erea built in 1848 at The Royal Fortepiano Factory in Paris with the four Ballades and three best Nocturnes of Chopin in the world ! J have never heard a such Beauty ! especially the three Nocturnes , an Angel who plays on piano purchased by the Fryderick Chopin Institute in 2005 , this Historical piano has the original hammers and soundboard with 82 keys non repetition mechanisme : j may have Chopin at home with Nelson Goerner and this instrument !
When Goerner first hit the headlines, EMI gave him a CD in their Debut series, which I immediately bought. It is a full 78minute Chopin recital including pieces of various sorts, the highlight being the B minor sonata, which the BBC selected as the best recording. Though it has not quite dislodged my affection for Lipatti, it is certainly one of the best I know. Goerner has done some masterclasses on You Tube - well worth watching.
@@OzanFabienGuvener it's a CD of Goerner recording by The Fryderyk Chopin Institute on piano Pleyel , 1848 ; the historical substance of this instrument is exceptionally virtually intact , original 100-100 , in fact we listen the real sound when Chopin played ; j like of course Nocturne by Rubinstein and Cortot but j really think Goerner is playing at a higher level ( op48-2 , op27-1 and 2 ) ; it's for me the best Chopin with studies Chopin-Cortot and the Mazurkas-Rubinstein .
@@saltburner2 thank's j Search all recordings of op-35 2 Sonata , for me Great Sonata of all sonatas for piano , at the Top . For me the best are Rachmaninov 1933 and V Askenazy the wind on the graves are amazigh ; j didn't known N Goerner had a record of op35-2 , merci beaucoup.
I finally heard, why Chopin preferred Pleyel to any other instrument. Loved it. The same I could say about music of Liszt. But as for Beethoven, even Mozart- their music sounds so much richer on modern instruments with the King of them-Steinway.
I disagree that richness is a good thing. Take the bass melodies and heavy block chords that appear a lot in Beethoven; on a modern grand they sound muddled, on a pianoforte they sound crystal clear.
I agree that there are some unique fortepianos around upon which music of the 18th and 19th century composers do sound lovely. That said, however, The modern Steinways are magnificent as are the Bechsteins, Faziolis, and the Bösendorfers. The issue of how the more robust lower notes sound on these instruments, muddled is not a word I would ever use. These modern instruments have superb actions and it is therefore possible to bring out effects that enable us to hear the tonality and intricacies of virtually any work by any composer who who composed for virtually any version of “Klavier.” If you Wa to hear a pair of masters of the instrument, I would encourage anyone to find the various recorded performances of Arthur and Lucas Jussen.
They sound "out of tune" to our modern ears, but in the past pianos were tuned at a lower pitch, so actually pianos are not out of tune. Pleyel, for example, is tuned according to its period. But Scriabin's piano really out of tone :)
Out of tune? Or out of tone? There’s a difference.
Piano’s themselves were built different back then which results in a different tone compared to todays modern pianos or pianos in 20th century really. Temperament wise I believe there were mean tone most of them played in until equal temperament became the norm. I’m not sure entirely though on the dates and accuracy of that
The technology of a piano has not changed much over 150 years at all, so it would not make a difference.
@@randyclar747 yes, but the "normal pitch" was different
@@randyclar747 The standard concert pitch hadnt been established yet, so pianos could be anywhere from 432 Hz to 455 Hz
@@randyclar747 Beethoven's, Mozarts and even Chopin's piano's are closer to 200 years old, those are very much different from what we are used to know and that explains most of the difference in tone.
Somehow each piano's sound suits each composer's style. Beethoven's threw me for a loop. And Liszt's - it had such a responsiveness, such an immediacy to it.
Pianos in Beethoven's time lacked the sustain that later instruments acquired, giving them a more percussive sound. In about 1985 I had the pleasure of hearing some Beethoven played live on a period appropriate piano. It was a strange and memorable experience.
@@FireAngelOfLondon Didn't Beethoven's not have any pedals so he could feel the vibration of the notes better?
Beethoven did not need to sit at the piano when composing, he could write the music notation and know how it would sound, just as well given his deafness. It is known that he was very frustrated and would put his head on the piano to feel the vibrations
Beethoven was ahead of his time and the pianos of his period could not handle
His modern music then. A fortepiano built 20 yrs later is probably more suited for his music esp the late period
What the piano could do very much affected the music played on it. This phenomenon is well known and understood across the whole range of musical instruments.
Great performance of La Campanella on Liszt's piano. Music making and not just showing off.
J agree but perhaps not viril with lyricisme as France Clidat , never demonstrative also
@@alainspiteri502 Oh my god I just discovered France Clidat. Absolutely beautiful playing of so much Liszt.
I just realised the piece actually can sound good
I agree, I usually can’t stand La Campanella but this one was pleasant to listen to.
@@EntelSidious_gamzeylmz no j don't listen the bells : France Clidat ok 👌
That La campanella was so clean and pure. such great use of the pedal and the notes are not overly exaggerated or forced. How I imagine Chopin would have played it :)
You mean Liszt, not Chopin
@@martonandorka Unless they mean it feels like a Chopin interpretation of Liszt? I’m not really sure though
@@martonandorka No no, I meant Chopin :) As far as I have come to understand Chopin in my readings he did not have a big sound when he played, which is what most pianists go for when they play this piece these days with grand dynamics and overly sonorous tempo. This interpretation focuses on what Chopin did very well which was to articulate and phrase cleanly accomplished with very economical use of the pedal.
@@martonandorka Do you have trouble with reading comprehension? If English is not your first language, maybe you shouldn't try to correct people who know what they are saying.
@@marblemadness8870 its perfectly understandable to think he could have meant liszt here buddy chill out
Imagine what fun Liszt would have had on a modern day piano.
This doesn't seem too far off from what we have today! But i bet more than anything he would have loved the faster and lighter actions on certain keyboards.
Eff Liszt. Beethoven & Mozart didn't have very good pianos in their day. Beethoven would have benefited best of all as his music was pushing pianos of his day to the limit. By the time Liszt came around, pianos were close to what they are today.
not much fun cause the new ones are dog shit
Piano or keyboard? I'd love to see them use a Nord stage or a Korg.
@@AlexsaurusRex 😆😆😆😆
Chopin's piano suits his style very well
That’s whyChopin preferred Pleyel, producing much softer sound, than Steinway. It was perfect for his very small and sophisticated, aristocratic audience.
@@stonefireice6058 Steinway pianos didn't exist until after Chopin died... Apparently the guy that posted this video & 18 others didn't know any better.
I agree, Pleyel is Chopin turned into an instrument
@@marblemadness8870 Steinway's founder and manufacturer of the brand's first pianos, Henry E. Steinway, he was producing pianos in Germany under the name Steinweg (Steinway and Steinweg are the same, Steinway in English). He has produced pianos since 1817 and in 1839, he exhibited three pianos at the state trade exhibition in Braunschweig, Germany and was awarded a gold medal. In 1839, Chopin was alive. Steinway & Sons may have been founded in the 1850s, but that's just a renaming of the Steinweg brand to suit America. So Steinway and Steinweg are the same, and the name "Steinway & Sons" is just the branding of the founder there to move to America and Steinway's production of grand pianos dates back to 1835.
Por qué hablan tanto del pedal?
I adore the singing quality of the Pleyel and the crisp, sharp nature of Beethoven's piano!
The Pleyel is out of tune. Would have sounded way better if the piano had been properly tuned.
@@heathermcdougall8023 I mean... the guy was deaf
@@Curtis_11 Chopin wasn't deaf.
@@therealrealludwigvanbeethoven Oh I got confused, I thought we were talking about Beethoven’s piano lol
@@heathermcdougall8023 Pleyel isn't exactly out-of-tone, at that time pianos were tuned lower.
I love how Beethoven’s piano sounds like it has 2 completely different Timbres at different dynamics and you can effortlessly gradually change between the two. One of my favourite things to do on modern grand pianos, is to press the lower keys as softly as I can and hear how the low frequencies fill the room.
Beethoven's piano is a complete orchestra. The high notes have their own unique voice and it brings a whole layer of clarity to the music.
This is what I imagined Liszt's La Campanella to sound like on Liszt's piano, and I really like Kocsis here; both the instrument and pianist are precise. I'm glad I was not disappointed.
i love how you have the full pieces for each recording. It proves that you are a true classical musician! Some channels would only include the start of exciting parts. Thanks for the video!
Modern “Presentation”… not necessarily asked for, but since science says playing the exciting parts and flashing images left and right makes you look at the screen that much longer…
¡Au contraire! …the music [and it’s performance] when done with skill, dedication to the piece, and gusto, is all you need.
Do you even know what being a musician entails? Listening to music makes you a music lover or connoisseur. Playing an instrument might make you a musician, but a real musician means you understand music theory as well. Music is not just about playing an instrument. You have to understand relationships between chords, tempi, notation, etc...
As for classical... Geez guy, you really need to get a musical education. Other than Mozart's Fantasia, there is no "true" classical music in this video.
@@marblemadness8870 Debussy: “There is no theory. You have only to listen. Pleasure is the law." I know music theory and I have compositions, but I think your approach is a bit conservative. Some of what you say is understandable, but knowing music theory does not make you a musician (also yes, listening to music doesn't make a musician either). This is also the case for many composers and composition teachers. For Messiean, for example, that terms such as "tonal", "modal" and "serial" are misleading analytical conveniences. Many composers of the Romantic period also composed based on their instruments, not theoretically. But you're probably against it. I wish you to read Mozart's letters to his father. Mozart will also object to what you say :).
Thank you. The works and the interpretations are a whole, which I think is also an important thing, I'm glad you noticed that. As much as I can, I try to give the records in their entirety. Unfortunately, people judge piano interpretations by only listening to certain attractive parts of the recordings. It's like judging a movie by looking at a scene. But of course, I also understand that people may not have much time or RUclips pushes them to do this for creator. I also thought of making a video by "shortening" a few times, I tried to convince myself that "whoever likes these will listen to the whole thing later", but that didn't really work for me, I think this is a bit against the spirit of classical music.
@@marblemadness8870 bro must be really fun at parties
Ughhh Franz Liszt piano! The responsiveness it has. 😍😍 I can just imagine the awe on peoples faces seeing the greatest virtuoso of his time playing.
Heard chopin piece playing on his own piano is like heard chopin playing, that's the most beautiful thing's in the universe
These are all pianos that the composers owned for only a couple of years at the end of their lives, but this is still such a cool video, and really gives you a good feel for their music and how they might have heard it! ❤️
I was out of the room at 4:457 and knew straight away it was Beethoven's piano... what a POWERHOUSE of a piano!
I'm also not a pianist but a violinist, violist and composer
Agree with the previous comment…. The pianist play like he was playing to a metronome, impeccable timing, effortless playing, as though he himself had written the piece. Astonishing that these instruments are still in existence after centuries of use! How many of you besides me with love to get their hands on any one of those pianos? I somehow doubt they will ever appear on the open market for sale, because they are absolutely priceless. Their original owners literally wrote the foundation of all classical music that we love and adore to this very day and beyond! It would be an honour just to be able to play it, even to touch it, because you would be touching such a huge part of human history, it’s almost beyond comprehension for me. Ever since I was a small boy, I’ve been absolutely fascinated, hypnotized, and bewildered by the sound of classical piano, makes one question if reincarnation actually exists, because it all feels so comfortable and familiar, as though I’m just listening to something I’ve heard 1 million times before but not in this life. Does that make any sense to anybody?
"The pianist play like he was playing to a metronome, impeccable timing, effortless playing, as though he himself had written the piece."
- is this a deteremining quality nowadays? Playing to metronome and "impeccable timing"?
🤦🏻
Probably the cleanest La Campanella i've ever seen
The fortepiano of Beethoven sounds much fuller of character than pianos these days, more interesting and more depth to the sounds.
I'm surprised just how close to a harpsichord Beethoven's piano sounds, ... but it makes sense.
Imagine what the Hammerklavier sonata and the Emperor concerto sounds like on the harpsichord !!
Did you ever heard an harpsichord ? Silly people of youtube ... I bet you are asian.
@@Alix777. tf?
Chopin was way ahead of his time, my absolute favourite composer.
He wasn't ahead of his time. He is the one that created his own time, which died with him.
23:56 I didnt expect this part too sound soo rich and full and amazing with the age of the piano and all, boy was I wrong. Sounds absolutely incredible!
Those 19th century Bechstein pianos are something else with their transcendental sound
My grandmother, who studied music, was given a Bechnstein grand for her 21st and I was lucky to learn piano from my mother on that same piano. As a young adult I thought all pianos sounded like Nanna's. How blissful if they did.
Bechstein still retained some aspects of their 1890-1914 great period in grands made right up until 1994. But since the factory relocated to Seifhennersdof under new management, the instruments now are radically different, much louder. They've lost that precious sweetness, forever. Pity.
@@studentjohn35 They‘re still the best brand along with Bösendorfer, even today. Modern Bechsteins still have that very wooden sound and still have the almost bell-like upper register that works so well with Impressionist and late Romantic music. I don‘t know if the key action got lighter or was always very heavy, it’s not necessarily easy to play super fast on a modern Bechstein. That being said, the 19th century/early 20th century Bechsteins are irreplaceable!
@@pianobern69 I bought a nicely reconditioned EN280 just a few years ago. Stayed right away from a new D282. Wasn't even tempted.
@@studentjohn35 The 280 EN is definitely the superior instrument. Have fun with that awesome model, I envy you!
I prefer old pianos. Because the contrast doesn't come out better? The polyphonic side is better. The sonority of pianos is narrow, but thanks to this, the piece sounds wider and larger. The sound is not mechanical but more natural, warm to me, especially Chopin and Liszt's pianos, Chopin's Pleyel is very fascinating, more convincing than the modern piano. It has a singing voice... Actually, I think the best are the pre-WWII pianos. Because they have the tone and structure of old pianos, but they have wide sonority like modern pianos.
We must also remember that modern pianos like Steinways are designed to be played in large halls to an audience of thousands, while the pianos of Mozart and even Beethoven's day were designed for small rooms and halls with an audience of at most a few hundred. Of course, modern amplification can - in theory - make a clavichord sound as loud as a concert grand. Its is horses for courses. Andras Schiff uses a Steinway for Beethoven but a Bosendorfer for Schubert.
I remember going to hear Pascal Devoyon (just after his superb performance at the 1975 Leeds) in his first Wigmore Hall recital, and was rather disappointed as I thought he played far too loudly. He had not yet learned how to adjust his dynamics to the size and acoustics of the (rather small) hall.
@@saltburner2 The same can be said for Chopin. Chopin didn't want to perform in big concert venues because the audience couldn't hear him playing! That's why he preferred small halls. Actually, he could play louder, but he thought the sound was distorted, for which the piano wasn't enough yet.
@@OzanFabienGuvener Interesting. I think Liszt used an erard for concerts before retiring from the stage and I think Chopin used Pleyel. I think Gould preferred an early model steinway compared to the later models.
@@johnrock2173 from what time was gould's piano?
@@ignacioclerici5341 I think he mainly played a model d Steinway grand from 1931 and a cd 318 from 1943? But didn’t like the sound of later Steinways and when his 318 was damaged and couldn’t be repaired he used a Yamaha toward the end. I was thinking he used more earlier models but I think the 1931 was his main earliest one for a lot of recording. I think he found the sound of later steinways too heavy
Zoltan was one of my faves back in the day. I had his album of all of Chopin's mazurkas.
33:58 this chord just sounds terrifying and disturbing on Scriabins own piano. And 34:54 sounds like bells! Damn, this is great.
It's just...totally out of tune..
If only we had acoustic recordings of Scriabin playing!
I didn't know Sofronitsky played Vers la Flamme on Scriabin's piano, that's epic.
We have the entire recording of Sofronitsky's 1960 concert at Scriabin's museum, including this recording!
@@every5thman947 ?
Yes and the piano tuning is terrible...
Its maybe must be tuned but still epic, the FINAL!! Last minutes was amazing
@@imdarealani I gather the objection is to the somewhat cliched use of the word 'epic'.
The easy response is:
'FFS? For fuck's sake.'
Another wonderful compilation. I've actually seen and touched the organ on which Handel played in the parish church near Cannons. It was not in working order, and is not normally on public view.
You may know that Gustav Holst's Broadwood, on which he composed The Planets (originally for 4 hands, before he orchestrated it) was recently completely restored in the Broadwood factory at Lythe, near Whitby, and returned to London where the 4-hand version was played in public. There are clips on RUclips.
That is the coolest thing ever if you like Handel like me
@@saltburner2 I didn't know that, the recordings on the Holst piano! I will definitely look. Thank you!
@@OzanFabienGuvener It was in our local news - I live not far from Whitby, and pass the Broadwood factory when I go there. I do have an earlier piano recording of The Planets, but not on Holst's Broadwood.
@@saltburner2 Thank you!!
While Liszt’s piano, Mozart’s, Chopin’s, as well as Bach’s organ at the St. Thomas Church (not in video) are wonderful,
For me, the modern pianos move me the most.
Perhaps it’s the recording quality, or for sentimental/nostalgic reasons, but Horowitz’s piano is so wonderful to my ears.
However, my favourite piano would have to be Glenn Gould’s CD 318 Steinway. It just does something different to me.
You listen to his recordings enough, and you begin to recognize it, like a loved ones voice. It just sings so beautifully.
Great video as always :)
Here I think the Chopin sounds just right. We must remember that this was the sound he wanted and expected.
Gould's piano is just perfect for his playing.
The Liszt's piano in this video is basically modern grand as we know it.
@@geuros Does Liszt's piano sound like that because of the restoration? Looks like modern pianos but not exactly the same
Steinway' s are very good but for me bosendorfer is the absolute best the sound is more mellow and full bodied compared to a Steinway...
List lived quite a long life and almost made it to the age of audio recording. That would have been interesting
Again, thank you for another fabulous compilation. The rapid decay, especially in the bass, is what most distunguishes the older instuments from the modern ones. It is impossible to play Chopin on today's instruments with the trasparancy of the older instruments for this reason. Nevertheless it seems fruitless to abandon or prefer either one. Somehow this music perseveres through time. When I listen to someone like Jeseph Lhevinne I am acutely aware that time has stopped for him and that he poured his whole soul into that repertoire. For this video I was most shocked by the percussiveness of the Beethoven and the incredible dissonence generated in the Mozart.
Mozart actually has some very dissonant works, I think this character is more effective here! Maybe I can prefer pianos after 1900's for Mozart's more lyrical pieces, but when it comes to pieces like this, I can say that old pianofortes sound better. I think Chopin is also losing something in modern pianos (I mean 21st century pianos). As you said, the biggest reason is the difference in bass.
@@OzanFabienGuvener I fell this issue is worth further exploration. The problem of technique enters in here as the vintage keyboards are comfortable under the hand, and what we call technique today plays no role. The trade off with modern instruments is that the use of the body has become athletic to an extreme in order to project the power of the instruments. Poor training in this area led to an epidemic of injuries towards the end of the 20th century. (Leon Fleischer has said he wished he had listened to his teacher.) Unfortunately, the cultivation of proper technique has also led to a general split between technique and interpretation. Horowitz' various recordings of Chopin's F Minor Nocturne show that it is still possible to show Chopin's mastery of contrapuntal writing on the modern piano. Angela Hewitt and Grigory Sokolov have both produced delightful and astounding videos of Couperin's Le Tic Toc Choc. For Mozart I prefer the forte-piano. Glen Gould showed the absurdity of trying to play Mozart on the modern piano.
@@dhollandpiano There were probably some mechanical differences in Horowitz's piano; The mechanism and weight were lightened, and his piano tuner Franz Mohr was making some special adjustments. Judging by what Horowitz said, one of his ultimate goals was to create contrast and achieve vocal timbre and legato; this is close to Chopin's approach. He always took his own piano and Franz Mohr always had it with him. I think the mechanical changes made to Horowitz's modern piano bring it closer to older pianos. I agree with the other things you said.
@@OzanFabienGuvener The interesting thing about these recordings is that the sonorities of the instruments illuminate the pieces brilliantly.
I agree - clearly Horowitz wanted to retro-modify his modern, heavy grand piano, to allow for more brilliant finger technique and vocal line, instead of 'bass-heavy' sonority. Putting emotions and tempi to the side, technically he was a very clean and 'dry' player with less reliance on the sustaining pedal, even in Scriabin or Rachmaninoff, or Liszt.
The first recording I heard of Beethoven's 'Diabelli' Variations was a now forgotten or deleted version by Helmut Waltl (I think) on a fortepiano. It was revelatory, and blazed itself into my mind, not only because of the ingenuity of the music (and the sunshine at that time) but because it was also probably Beethoven's own sound, and the many variations exploited the sonic possibilities of that instrument in a way that re-shaped my understanding.
Who, having heard this, can forget the tones of pianos of that time, and the challenges they were set by those composers? Op. 111 in this video awakens the same feelings. There is a huge variety of possible tone colours which have been muted (although the trade-off for those who can master the modern grand piano is incredible clarity, tone production and power).
@@tomowenpianochannel I agree. As you said, the most striking thing here is that these instruments illuminate the works and show the composer's mind more clearly!
It should not be forgotten that pianists such as Hofmann, Horowitz and Gould highly personalized their pianos and made changes in their mechanisms. That's why I hesitate to call their pianos modern, because it is clear that they are inspired by some old pianos.
I thought the same thing as you in Paul Badura-Skoda's Beethoven recordings with pianoforte. I don't know the Beethoven recording of Helmut you mentioned, but I was curious, I hope I can find it, if I find it, I'll share it with you!
Thank you for this comment.
Merci beaucoup for this, and very interesting comments. Especially about Chopin's strength. That's something that interests me since I treated pianists (and others) and used muscle testing for the majority of my diagnosis. And since I suffered a shoulder injury, I had to change my techniques which broadened the patient population since I didn't do traditional vertebral manipulation techniques. And I became quite the specialist on shoulder problems...as well as the arm and hands.
I hope to have a video soon showing exercises pianists can do for their low back, as well as for the shoulder and hands. Exercises and self treatments, especially good for that fifth finger.
I would appreciate if you can really make those videos happen. I'm a pianist myself and have been straining my shoulders quite a bit from playing. My middle finger is also injured and I have not dared to resume my practice for weeks. I hope you can provide some insights...
@@M419.99 It's filmed but my daughter has to edit it. She has two other films she is doing so it's taking more time than we thought. Once it's done, I think I'll do Zoom videos for individual cases.
@@lawrencetaylor4101 thanks for your update sir
Those high notes on scriabin's piano are incredibly sharp
Much of what you're hearing is coloration of the microphones used, and the piano is not well tuned for the session, either.
It sounds kind of out of tune
Chopins piano is perfect sounding for his type
Encore bravo pour toutes vos extraordinaires compilations et pour le travail colossal que ça doit représenter de chercher toutes ces merveilles et d'en faire ces vidéos fabuleuses !
Fascinating, thanks for sharing those famous pianos of great composers! I took lessons from a great teacher, a graduate of Julliard and had lessons on Steinway grands, and my own piano is a Knabe with a little brass plaque on the inside of the lid that says "Official piano of the Metropolitan Opera House 1928'. I'm a lifelong pianist/composer and composed a full length American folk opera which has been performed in public and I've played on Chickering pianos, an old Boston piano manufacturer. The Boston Museum of Fine Arts also has an interesting collection of antique musical instruments like harpsichords and lutes as well! Wonderful to hear the different sounds and pianists here.
Pleyel is my favourite, Its touch, sound is truly beyond immense pleasure. Very Chopinesque instrument!
Chopin: "Pleyel's pianos are the last word in perfection." :)
I love the mellow tone of the piano in Beethoven's time.
Merci Zoltan pour ce beau moment musical. Je ne t'oublie pas.
Best performance of this piece I’ve heard. (Liszt). The Beethoven is very interesting too. Peter Serkin recorded it on a fortepiano,too.
Serkin's recording is also on Graf pianoforte! But I don't know if it's Beethoven's own Graf.
For me personally it's like time traveling in to the Past 😌
Thank you so much for this compilation
Tears of Gratefullness.
Interesting to hear Chopin's piano is much warmer than the others. No where near as bright. I wonder if he purposely wanted it like that?
In my opinion, Chopin found the tone of the Pleyel piano close to the naturalness of the human voice and preferred it because it could give its own characteristic sound color.
Chopin: 'When i feel out of sorts, I play on an Erard piano where I easily find a ready-made tone. But when I feel in good form and strong enough to find my own individual sound, then I need a Pleyel piano.'
Emilie von Gretsch (Chopin's pupil): 'Until now I have worked more on heavy keyboards than on light ones: this has greatly strengthened my fingers. However, on this type of piano it is impossible to obtain the subtlest nuances with movements of the wrist and forearm, as well as of each individual finger. These nuances - I've experienced them as Chopin's on his beautiful piano, with its touch so close to that of the Viennese instruments. He himself calls it 'a perfidious traitor' [un traitre perfide]. Things that came out perfectly on my solid and robust Erard became abrupt and ugly on Chopin's piano.9 He found it dangerous to work much on an instrument with a beautiful ready-made sound like the Erard. He said these instruments spoil one's touch: 'You can thump it and bash it, it makes no difference: the sound is always beautiful and the ear doesn't ask for anything more since it hears a full, resonant tone.'
@@OzanFabienGuvener Thanks for the response. That's very interesting indeed. As a classical guitarist you notice that tone differs massively from guitar to guitar. It never crossed my mind that it would be the same for pianists. I think it's because you so often see the same grand piano being played today. It's interesting to hear that for Chopin it's a well thought out choice what piano to use when.
@@soulbreather666 As you said, most pianists use the same pianos today, and all brands have lost their individual voice. So of course there is a difference, but not as much as in the past. Before the Second World War, both pianists used very different pianos (Blüthner, Bechstein, Steinway, Bösendorfer, Erard, Baldwin etc.) and the pianos had a more distinctive timbre. Unfortunately, Pleyel has not been producing pianos since 2013. Steinway is very common, but this is not because of the quality of the piano, the brand gave many concessions to the pianists who chose it.
Chopin's choice of piano depending on the situation is really interesting. Although his primary piano was always Pleyel. Some of the pianists change the piano according to the piece, but they did not change the piano depending on the mood.
Mozarts pianoforte is actually really nice
His music seems to reflect a true awareness of an evolving instrument. There are some very modern qualities expressed, almost foresight.
Seems like they each tailored their piano sound to their styles, really interesting
or vice versa
the resonance and depth of the Pleyel is really moving.
has a harp quality
@@johnrock2173 While Beethoven's is reminiscent of percussion, yes Chopin's is really like a harp!
@@OzanFabienGuvener Kind of the difference between their music
@@Ace-dv5ce Yes, definitely!
I was in Greig's home years ago and asked for permission to play some sections of his Concerto on the piano in his living room. Permission was denied. I explained that I could actually play it, but that was not enough. I suppose I was not the first person to ask this.
Sanjosemike (no longer in CA)
Ah, I experienced a similar situation at the Enescu and Chopin museums. I understand the situation.
@@OzanFabienGuvener Ozan, thanks for writing. It would have been fun to play it on his own piano. I would have had my wife take a picture of me playing it. I wouldn't obviously play the entire work, probably just the Cadenza. I can't imagine that it would have "harmed" the instrument. Can you?
Sanjosemike (no longer in CA)
@@sanjosemike3137 It won't harm the piano if played this way, but I also understand that if it's public, someone might play it hard and the piano might be damaged.
@@OzanFabienGuvener After two minutes or less for me to start the Cadenza, they would know I can play it. I guess I believed I deserved a chance.
But the piano is irreplaceable.
Sanjosemike (no longer in CA)
I would've let you play it...with gloves.😉
What an excellent channel!
Horowitz and Pletnev played on the Tchaikovsky's piano. There is a video in RUclips
The Horowitz recording came to my mind, but I didn't add it because he plays Rachmaninov on the Tchaikovsky piano, but yes I forgot Pletnev, it should have been his recording in this video! Just listened to it again, Pletnev's recording is very good, I'm sorry it's not in this video. Thank you.
Another beautiful compilation Thankyou
I saw all kinds of colors with the last recording. So funny!
Enjoyed every moment of this more-than-interesting programme. Thank you! What a lovely find this has been for me.
The Chopin nocturne is especially lovely and instructive.
Fascinating video.
As a piano tuner, thank you for this Gem :)
Who can restaure those pianos when necessary?
What a wonderfurl performance of La Campanella...
An extraodinary compilation of historical pianos. Congratulations . Information: the Steinway & Sons Concert Grand No 182 (1860) Braunschweig-New York in brazilian Rosewood, with the signature of Comte Hans von Bülow (first husband of Cosima Liszt, later wife of Richard Wagner) on it´s sounboard, is in private hands and is being sold. Contacts Klavierhaus New York. Mr Reisinger.
Beethoven's piano has some harpsichord characteristics.
The Sordino pedal (the one that puts a cloth between the hammer and the strings) make it sound like that.
I like the sound of Beethoven's piano 😊 Thanks for this compilation!
What a wonderful Bechstein Liszt owned
yes! I want that Bechstein!!
oh my god Kocsis is so young!
Yeah, he is only 21 years old! :)
@@OzanFabienGuvener wow. There’s a doc called The Hungarian Touch you might like where he talks about Liszt and Bartok.
May he rest in piece
The Hammerklavier sounds a bit 'ancient' on the Beethoven's piano !
That is not hammerklavier sonata opus 106 B flat major But it is sonata 32 opus 111 C minor
Thank you for the upload. Very well done!
Also appreciated your thoughtful responses to a number of the posts.
You have, for the most part, a very cultured and appreciative subscriber group.
I'm in. SUBSCRIBED! 😃👍
Thank you very much and welcome! :)
I live in Poland and i found original shellac records where Raul Koczalski played Chopin, these are the same recordings as in this video in 27:45.
Did you buy it?
@@OzanFabienGuvener Yes, i buy it in my local record store, records are from 1948 and on "MEWA" label.
@@patryk4323 Fantastic, enjoy! Are other Koczalski's Pleyel recordings available? For example, the first ballad. I think Koczalski's Chopin Pleyel recordings are his best recordings, along with the Chopin 2nd concerto recording.
@@OzanFabienGuvener Yes i Got also prelude op. 28 nr. 7, nocturne op. 9 nr. 2,berceuse op. 57, nocturne op. 32 nr. 1 and waltz op. 64 nr. 2. In all of them Raul Koczalski played Chopin.
@@OzanFabienGuvener but i dont see information on instrument on the label, probably this is pleyel.
Great compilation!
The keys on Liszt's Bechstein are very very heavy. I played on it once, no other piano I ever played required that much physical effort to push down the keys.
Do you think that heaviness is something you could get used to? I am wondering if there are certain advantages to that heaviness.
@@willardsteele4857 Franz Mohr, who was Chief Concert Technician for Steinway and who prepared pianos for Vladimir Horowitz and Artur Rubinstein, told me that Rubinstein preferred a heavy action and that he would have hated Horowitz's piano, which had an extraordinarily light action (I played that piano twice, once in 1990, when it was still exactly as Horowitz wanted it, and then in 2003, when Steinway had turned it into an ordinary Model D, destroying a bit of history).
I have a Mason and Hamlin BB that Franz's son Peter rebuilt for me. Franz worked on it too and signed one of the keys on its side. Sadly, both are gone now.
After 2.5 minutes in... I think I'll return my hands to the shop and try another pair, these ones don't seem to work.
Beethoven's last Sonatas were composed on his Broadwood piano
I loved hearing these! Thank you so much for posting!
just looking at a composers piano is special
Each one: "Been waiting for that, thanks".
Liszt: hey, that's my piano, on top of that you are too slow, you offend me
Beethoven: damn bastard, tHaT's mY pIAno dOn't tOUcH it! ARGHH!!
Mozart: can't you touch it worse? HAHAHAHA YOU ARE SO BAD
Chopin: look, if you're going to play my piano at least do it in a romantic, passionate way, if not, then go away
Alexander: ...
I remember seeing a beautiful white grand piano with gold candlestick holders on sale at Harrods some sixty years ago. It was priced at 3,000 guineas and when I enquired I was told it had belonged to Marie Antoinette.
I prefer modern pianos, but the playing on some of these composer's older pianos reveals a new flavor of tone.
they're kinda damages that's one reason it sounds so different
@@miguelisaurusbruh1158 a lot of them have been perfectly restored, but sound wildly different. A historian was once asked, “if you were to drop Chopin into the 21st century, what would you show him?”
He replied, “firstly, he would probably not recognize the sound of the modern piano.”
Something like that I don’t remember the exact quotes lol
@@RockinTheDub Pianist Stephen Hough also said: If Chopin came today, he wouldn't be able to press a key on modern pianos!
@@OzanFabienGuvener Was it a physical limitation? Because I heard Chopin was very weak (from TB?). Or maybe it was more of a figurative limitation.
@@imdarealani There is a metaphorical and exaggerated usage here, as you said, and I think Hough implied that: Chopin's playing style is not suitable for modern pianos. Also, old pianos have a tenor/baritone/bass distinction, which is suitable for the polyphony Chopin wanted.
Beethoven's Piano almost sounds like it has a natural Staccato to it - strings sound very "bouncy".
I thought the pianist playing Liszt, and the crisp sound of the piano, was mesmerising. I was disappointed in the quality of Beethoven's piano, which didn't do his amazing compositions justice. However, he was completely deaf by 1825...after hearing that, I expected Mozart's piano to sound more like a harpsichord being 40 years older, but it sounded more like a modern piano than Beethoven's. I like that Andras Schiff played that piece, which is so unlike anything else I've heard from Mozart and feel that he was really bearing his soul. Chopin's Pleyel piano really brought out the beauty of his softer pieces, but it lacked the punch to make the first tune sound crisp enough in my opinion. I loved Scriabin's composition; it's the first time I heard it. I quite liked the piano, but some of the high notes sounded like they were 'splitting'; it didn't age as well as the others.
Saw Rachmaninoff’s piano on the first floor of the Library of Congress in Washington D.C, when I visited. Did not hear it played, though.
Beautiful. Just Beautiful.
Wonderful video!
Thanks a lot! 💚
Strange to think the original composers likely played the exact combination and order of notes that the performers are playing, just in their own different style that we'll never truly get to understand.
such a WONDERFUL SHARING ...thank you!!
When you compare modern pianos with composers' pianos, I wonder which one would you prefer?
It's hard to tell. I think that pianos change a lot often not for the better over time unlike violins but I"m not sure.
or some violins
Actually there is plenty of room for both!
Harpsichords are the best.
Definitely Liszt's Bechstein.
This is so cool. I’m Star struck.
Le Chopin est magnifique ! Sonorité riche, ronde, chaude, profonde. Superbe !
Speaking about their -old pianos we should not neglect the fact that composers did also use old unequal tunings until ~1900. In the german domain the theoretical book of Bachs disciple Kirnberger was very influencial. Kirnberger explained why equal temperament is a bad idea: because it would make all Keys sound similar. He then propsed a tunign which is today called Kirnberger II. Towards the end of his live he further improved it, but only in a letter that was published much later. With this Kirnberger III even the remote keys sound well, yet each key shows a character of its own.
Fascinating. Thank you for this.
That cool
Listening to old pianos makes me appreciate modern pianos.
Same here!
Some of these are fortepianos (no metal frame on which the strings are strung) and these are parallel strung. That's an important detail as it impacts the sonic character. Erard and Pleyel in Chopin's age were still parallel strung (Barenboim has had a grand piano made that was parallel strung - I heard him play it and it sounded right - my problem was his selection of repertoire that he no longer fully mastered).
I can only imagine the sheer joy of playing a piece of music on the composer's own piano... WOW.
Do you know who actually made these pianos? I know that violins have different sounds depending on their maker & the wood used but I didn't know pianos did as well. I love learning something new every day. Thank You.
Same as violin makers Guarneri, Amati and Stradivari. As far as I know (I'm not very knowledgeable on this subject), the names of these brands already come from their creator; There are people working under them, but they were the head of the overall design and construction. Camille Pleyel and Robert Wornum made Chopin's Pleyel. While Liszt's Bechstein was being made, the brand was headed by its founder, Carl Bechstein. Mozart's piano was also made by Anton Walter. Beethoven's piano player is also made by Conrad Graf.
@@OzanFabienGuvener Cool. Thanks for the information. I love broadening my horizons with new knowledge.
I still want to figure out the piano Debussy played on
Leif Ove Andsnes also recorded on Grieg’s piano
Ah I did not know that. Now I've listened, I wish it was on video. Thank you!
The first piano sounds the best imo.
it’s really messed up to put an ad right in the middle of the coda
Awesome!
Forgot Tiffany Poon’s recording of Liebestod on Wagner’s piano 🥲. There are also several videos of people playing Ravel’s piano (if you make a sequel video)
Actually, I didn't forget, but you know, Wagner has almost no compositions for the piano and he is not known as a pianist, I chose the composers in the video where the piano is important. But it was really nice to listen to Wagner on that piano... I'll check it out for Ravel, thanks!
Very good and interesting - thank you,
Liszt's Bechstein sounds fantastic, and the performance is wonderful. Jorge Bolet played the Bechstein - I knew his tuner, who told me that Bolet said "it plays itself". The performance of Op 111 is bizarre: the double dotting in the opening is ignored, as are many of the composer's dynamics. And the piano sounds foul. Mozart's piano sounds far better than Beethoven's. A pity that Scriabins's piano is so badly out of tune. Alfred Cortot played the Pleyel, and his recordings sound divine.
Pleyel's pre-WWII pianos are truly satisfying and close to Chopin's Pleyel. Wanda Landowska has Mozart recordings on Pleyel piano, she has a beautiful vocal line like Cortot. It is understandable why someone like Chopin who seeks the "human voice" on the piano would prefer Pleyel. It's a shame that this brand has now stopped production. When I compare Beethoven and Mozart pianos, I prefer Mozart too, but I think Beethoven's piano also has a strange charm. I don't know why they didn't tune Scriabin's piano.Thanks for sharing the anecdote with Bolet!
I know the pianos are old, but all I can hear is my inner voice pleading for a tuner on the Beethoven.
Ladies and gentleman, its Zoltan Kocsis, thats why:)
@@Dog-op4mk yesss!!!
There is a sixth pianist , not very well-known for me Great Nelson Goerner who plays also on a piano of Chopin 's erea built in 1848 at The Royal Fortepiano Factory in Paris with the four Ballades and three best Nocturnes of Chopin in the world ! J have never heard a such Beauty ! especially the three Nocturnes , an Angel who plays on piano purchased by the Fryderick Chopin Institute in 2005 , this Historical piano has the original hammers and soundboard with 82 keys non repetition mechanisme : j may have Chopin at home with Nelson Goerner and this instrument !
I didn't know this recording, I will listen, thank you!
When Goerner first hit the headlines, EMI gave him a CD in their Debut series, which I immediately bought.
It is a full 78minute Chopin recital including pieces of various sorts, the highlight being the B minor sonata, which the BBC selected as the best recording. Though it has not quite dislodged my affection for Lipatti, it is certainly one of the best I know. Goerner has done some masterclasses on You Tube - well worth watching.
@@OzanFabienGuvener it's a CD of Goerner recording by The Fryderyk Chopin Institute on piano Pleyel , 1848 ; the historical substance of this instrument is exceptionally virtually intact , original 100-100 , in fact we listen the real sound when Chopin played ; j like of course Nocturne by Rubinstein and Cortot but j really think Goerner is playing at a higher level ( op48-2 , op27-1 and 2 ) ; it's for me the best Chopin with studies Chopin-Cortot and the Mazurkas-Rubinstein .
@@saltburner2 thank's j Search all recordings of op-35 2 Sonata , for me Great Sonata of all sonatas for piano , at the Top . For me the best are Rachmaninov 1933 and V Askenazy the wind on the graves are amazigh ; j didn't known N Goerner had a record of op35-2 , merci beaucoup.
Bellissimo video 😊😊
I finally heard, why Chopin preferred Pleyel to any other instrument. Loved it. The same I could say about music of Liszt. But as for Beethoven, even Mozart- their music sounds so much richer on modern instruments with the King of them-Steinway.
I disagree that richness is a good thing. Take the bass melodies and heavy block chords that appear a lot in Beethoven; on a modern grand they sound muddled, on a pianoforte they sound crystal clear.
I agree that there are some unique fortepianos around upon which music of the 18th and 19th century composers do sound lovely. That said, however, The modern Steinways are magnificent as are the Bechsteins, Faziolis, and the Bösendorfers. The issue of how the more robust lower notes sound on these instruments, muddled is not a word I would ever use. These modern instruments have superb actions and it is therefore possible to bring out effects that enable us to hear the tonality and intricacies of virtually any work by any composer who who composed for virtually any version of “Klavier.” If you Wa to hear a pair of masters of the instrument, I would encourage anyone to find the various recorded performances of Arthur and Lucas Jussen.
I’ve never wanted to play a piano so bad.