Thanks! They used to be considered good manners but are less common today. Liszt once stopped a student at one of his Weimar masterclasses, urging him to play a brief prelude before beginning his piece. I found that anecdote very interesting and have started doing the same since reading it, I believe it was in Kenneth Hamilton’s book “After the Golden Age.”
Wow, what a brilliant idea and thanks so much for your generosity in sharing all this music and information! Much appreciated. I look forward to the whole series and will listen avidly.
Wow, what a lovely idea! Now, apart from a few years of musical history as part of my cultural history class I have absolutely no theoretical knowledge of music. So you understand that the way I define these pieces is through melody rather than structure, but one observation if I may… I grew up a fan of Baroque. I simply can’t get enough of Rameau’s harpsichord or Guillemain’s violin. But now with these fall days approaching I tend to find myself listening to later pieces such as these. What I love about them is how they seem closer to man itself rather than his achievements. Alligned more with his emotion, rather than the justification of majesty. Less…grand ships at sea and more…country estate in the fog. But every once every few segments or so, there is this hint of a Baroque melody, which occur well into the 1820s, and the mind is instantly forced to transition back. To lock you, or at least, me, into the depths of the piece, as it were. It is easy to understand the appeal of these works for both the older 18th century listener, and the sons of the enlightenment. To understand what developments took place and why. And personally, being that I am not a fan of the full blown Romantic pieces of the later 19th century, I can appreciate this touch of majesty that the works still retain. Anyway, I’ll keep following these videos. This is a great concept, thank you!
The fact that after Mozart's death the later classical composers tried harder to match his harmonic complexity thanks to his success after his death... Whereas before 1791 they were almost in fairly "insignificant" galant music. That says a lot about the tastes of the public after 1790.
This video shows very well why I think Beethoven was the best of them all: The other composers' sonatas simply lack substance and identity. Their music may be enjoyable and there _are_ good themes, but most of the time it sounds like they just strung together rather dull episodes of decorated improvisations without any direction or development. There's no thematic identity. Take for example the strain at 15:15 - 16:25, it's a chorale but.. what does he want to say here? I don't see any real thought or material. In contrast, I think most of Beethoven's Sonatas have unique and memorable character and melody. He knew how to develop one or two motifs to a coherent and really "composed" movement. Compare the same section (15:15) to the middle episode in the 4th movement (Allegro assai) of Beethoven's Sonata No. 3 Op. 2 No. 3. He also starts with a simple chorale, but then he switches hands, varies it with 8th note figures, adds a new melody and eventually restates and modulates the chorale to the main theme.
Btw this doesn't hold for every piece. I really like Eberl's Rindo Vivace (the last piece here), it's one of the better ones. Also the section at 10:14 is great and I would rank it on Beethoven's level
I think you pinpointed one of the big takeaways of this experiment, for me. There are some good, interesting, and rewarding things throughout, and some other parts that are just fine but not stellar, but many of these are pasted together with subpar materials. Beethoven just set a new standard that we still value today. We do still find some unique outliers that I will go to bat for (Dussek), but he was still no Beethoven. I do genuinely enjoy exploring these forgotten works and yet this project forces me to play some things that I don't absolutely love, so it's a fun challenge. I do intend to feature the century's most famous sonatas in this project, but there are remarkably few when you limit it to one per composer (less than 10, perhaps). That really puts it all into perspective. You also rightly pointed out the single most boring passage in the video! I wanted to like that Riem sonata movement, but it just drags in the middle section. Eberl's music was a nice surprise, very conservative but quaint and attractive. And yes, that section at 10:14 gives me Schubertian chills; Pinto was only 17 and died a few years later!
0:10 "Romantic" music is just galant music but with a different arrangement of patterns. That progression I pointed out was usually used in development sections or after the double bar in dances. But in this period and especially Beethoven, used it at the beginning of pieces as a contrast. Really interesting video too I wish you a nice week❤
Thanks! Nothing special, equal temp at 440. If it were more realistic for the period, the tunings would be all over the place and the transitions would be a nightmare.
@@PianoCurio Young II, aka Valotti-Young, is worth experimenting with (I think it’s built-in for Pianoteq historical instruments). I think you might like the result, and it would not be obviously unequal to a casual listener. It plays well in all keys, and will introduce a spectrum of “stillness -> shimmer” as you move toward 6 o’clock on the circle of fifths. It makes the modulations count! I love the idea of reconstructing the cultural context of all these lesser known sonatas, and it would be amazing to hear them in something like their original “unequal” state.
@@jaurisova6 very interesting, that one is unfamiliar to me and I have admittedly not experimented enough with alternate tunings. Thanks for the suggestion!
Ugh, big missed opportunity on my end. A Reicha sonata would have been beter than the Riem sonata in 1804, but it didn't show up in my IMSLP search by publication date! I'll have to refine my research process to make sure I don't miss any others like that. I do have the 100 sonatas outlined already, but the list is in constant flux until the moment I decide to record. Thanks as always for watching.
@@gmfrunzik Try his most famous piano work for starters, his 36 Fugues. It doesn't sound very exciting, but what he does in each piece is quite extraordinary for the time. Several more of his piano works have now been recorded, including some fascinating Sonatas on the Toccata Classics label.
That word comes from the Grove Music article on Steibelt that describes his personality as "extraordinarily vain, arrogant, discourteous, recklessly extravagant and even dishonest." Apparently he had kleptomania as well. Sounds a bit harsh, but his personality must have been abrasive enough earn him that reputation.
I love this concept and I’m looking forward to seeing it completed
I’m looking forward to the 1900s lol
@@KaikhosruShapurjiMedtner 1900s start off with the Dukas sonata, should be an interesting one whenever I make it there!
I love the little (historically accurate) improvisations you do in between segments
Thanks! They used to be considered good manners but are less common today. Liszt once stopped a student at one of his Weimar masterclasses, urging him to play a brief prelude before beginning his piece. I found that anecdote very interesting and have started doing the same since reading it, I believe it was in Kenneth Hamilton’s book “After the Golden Age.”
Wow, what a brilliant idea and thanks so much for your generosity in sharing all this music and information! Much appreciated. I look forward to the whole series and will listen avidly.
Thanks a lot for Bomtempo, I found Menuet and Rondo from that sonata very catchy back in 2022
Superb idea. Amazing how much changed in music in that 100 years.
Thank you - not only for the excellent selection, but also for the beautiful connecting music - a feast for the ears!
12:31 what an interesting chord for 1803, an augmented 7th!
Great selection! Not just cool idea, but very nice taste in choosing these sonatas.
great project! subscribed and anxious for the next chapters!
This is epic
Wow, what a lovely idea!
Now, apart from a few years of musical history as part of my cultural history class I have absolutely no theoretical knowledge of music. So you understand that the way I define these pieces is through melody rather than structure, but one observation if I may…
I grew up a fan of Baroque. I simply can’t get enough of Rameau’s harpsichord or Guillemain’s violin. But now with these fall days approaching I tend to find myself listening to later pieces such as these. What I love about them is how they seem closer to man itself rather than his achievements. Alligned more with his emotion, rather than the justification of majesty. Less…grand ships at sea and more…country estate in the fog. But every once every few segments or so, there is this hint of a Baroque melody, which occur well into the 1820s, and the mind is instantly forced to transition back. To lock you, or at least, me, into the depths of the piece, as it were.
It is easy to understand the appeal of these works for both the older 18th century listener, and the sons of the enlightenment. To understand what developments took place and why. And personally, being that I am not a fan of the full blown Romantic pieces of the later 19th century, I can appreciate this touch of majesty that the works still retain.
Anyway, I’ll keep following these videos. This is a great concept, thank you!
Very original type of vids! I'm looking forward for the next decades ;)
Bomtempo is an excellent composer! Thanks
What a fantastic project! You're a wonderful musician and a clever and generous person. Subscribing and keeping posted.
Clementi ---the best
The fact that after Mozart's death the later classical composers tried harder to match his harmonic complexity thanks to his success after his death... Whereas before 1791 they were almost in fairly "insignificant" galant music. That says a lot about the tastes of the public after 1790.
This video shows very well why I think Beethoven was the best of them all: The other composers' sonatas simply lack substance and identity.
Their music may be enjoyable and there _are_ good themes, but most of the time it sounds like they just strung together rather dull episodes of decorated improvisations without any direction or development. There's no thematic identity. Take for example the strain at 15:15 - 16:25, it's a chorale but.. what does he want to say here? I don't see any real thought or material.
In contrast, I think most of Beethoven's Sonatas have unique and memorable character and melody. He knew how to develop one or two motifs to a coherent and really "composed" movement.
Compare the same section (15:15) to the middle episode in the 4th movement (Allegro assai) of Beethoven's Sonata No. 3 Op. 2 No. 3. He also starts with a simple chorale, but then he switches hands, varies it with 8th note figures, adds a new melody and eventually restates and modulates the chorale to the main theme.
Btw this doesn't hold for every piece. I really like Eberl's Rindo Vivace (the last piece here), it's one of the better ones. Also the section at 10:14 is great and I would rank it on Beethoven's level
I think you pinpointed one of the big takeaways of this experiment, for me. There are some good, interesting, and rewarding things throughout, and some other parts that are just fine but not stellar, but many of these are pasted together with subpar materials. Beethoven just set a new standard that we still value today. We do still find some unique outliers that I will go to bat for (Dussek), but he was still no Beethoven. I do genuinely enjoy exploring these forgotten works and yet this project forces me to play some things that I don't absolutely love, so it's a fun challenge. I do intend to feature the century's most famous sonatas in this project, but there are remarkably few when you limit it to one per composer (less than 10, perhaps). That really puts it all into perspective.
You also rightly pointed out the single most boring passage in the video! I wanted to like that Riem sonata movement, but it just drags in the middle section. Eberl's music was a nice surprise, very conservative but quaint and attractive. And yes, that section at 10:14 gives me Schubertian chills; Pinto was only 17 and died a few years later!
0:10 "Romantic" music is just galant music but with a different arrangement of patterns.
That progression I pointed out was usually used in development sections or after the double bar in dances.
But in this period and especially Beethoven, used it at the beginning of pieces as a contrast.
Really interesting video too
I wish you a nice week❤
Cool insight, thank you!
riem's sonata kinda reminds me of chopins first polonaise in g minor
Beautifully played! What’s the temperament you’re using?
Thanks! Nothing special, equal temp at 440. If it were more realistic for the period, the tunings would be all over the place and the transitions would be a nightmare.
@@PianoCurio Young II, aka Valotti-Young, is worth experimenting with (I think it’s built-in for Pianoteq historical instruments). I think you might like the result, and it would not be obviously unequal to a casual listener. It plays well in all keys, and will introduce a spectrum of “stillness -> shimmer” as you move toward 6 o’clock on the circle of fifths. It makes the modulations count!
I love the idea of reconstructing the cultural context of all these lesser known sonatas, and it would be amazing to hear them in something like their original “unequal” state.
@@jaurisova6 very interesting, that one is unfamiliar to me and I have admittedly not experimented enough with alternate tunings. Thanks for the suggestion!
PS you must include Reicha in these early sonata suggestions!
Ugh, big missed opportunity on my end. A Reicha sonata would have been beter than the Riem sonata in 1804, but it didn't show up in my IMSLP search by publication date! I'll have to refine my research process to make sure I don't miss any others like that. I do have the 100 sonatas outlined already, but the list is in constant flux until the moment I decide to record. Thanks as always for watching.
@@PianoCurio Reicha as a separate video would always be welcomed! Such an innovator!
@@4candles absolutely, adding it to the brainstorming list!
@@4candlescould you recommend some pieces by him?
@@gmfrunzik Try his most famous piano work for starters, his 36 Fugues. It doesn't sound very exciting, but what he does in each piece is quite extraordinary for the time. Several more of his piano works have now been recorded, including some fascinating Sonatas on the Toccata Classics label.
What VST midi controller or digital piano are you using?
Yamaha N1X
Why was Steibelt dishonest?
That word comes from the Grove Music article on Steibelt that describes his personality as "extraordinarily vain, arrogant, discourteous, recklessly extravagant and even dishonest." Apparently he had kleptomania as well. Sounds a bit harsh, but his personality must have been abrasive enough earn him that reputation.
@@PianoCurio tks for answering
can I ask you why the music doesn’t match the score at 15:51?
Sure, I chose to ornament the repeats since that section sounded too dry without them, just a matter of personal taste.