I was following that perfectly till 9 mins and it all went over my head. At the beginning you said nothing needed to be done for electrofrog and then suddenly your cutting, clipping and soldering! I guess I'll watch it a few times 😅 great vid. Ta!
Great video, clearly explained. For those like me who are electrical dunces, I have only 3 Peco electrofrogs on my layout and they are simply wired for those who might think that they don't need to modify the points as you have, even though your method is the best. Insulated joiners on the inside straight ahead and diverging rail and a wire soldered to the rails immediately following the insulated joiner. Obviously this is required where the point leads to a dead end siding, otherwise there would be no power supply to one of the siding rails. So far-touch wood- I have had no issues with electrical continuity forward of the points.
I use servo motors to move my points and to swap the frog polarity, I 3D printed a couple of little brackets and put microswitches on so when the servo changes direction, it switches the microswitch over to change the point polarity. Works quite well for me :)
@@robbhalverson7725 I got them from Thiniverse a fair while ago, got the microswitches off ebay. Make sure you get the right size microswitches, or be good with a CAD program to modify the mount. I can't post links here, but one similar to the ones I use was. thing:4064070 on Thingiverse Model Railway Turnout Point Servo Motor Mount **Update 3** Not identical. I couldn't find the identical one.
Nice explanation, I'm using both inulfrog and electrofrog points on my layout. I had quite a few insulated points so have used them on my DC section but all the DCC section is electrofrog bar one of the two crossings. One I adapted myself but the other I left as its not an easy task and Peco unfortunately don't make electrofrog crossings in code 100. For frog polarity I used small relays that switch the polarity along side the point motor operating, I made a video on this myself a year or so ago.
it is worth having a go at making points, copper clad sleepers and rail is the cheapest way - either a kit that comes with a template or using Templot and printing. its not that hard, and it is cheap, also it makes adding longer check rails, conductive checkrails etc easy. also can save a bit of space as its suddenly a lot easier to start points on curves or have say a three way both going the same way - this can be huge in fiddle yards etc the main cost is time, and needed some sort of motor or rod actuator to lock it, the time issue should not be underestimated - nor should the fact the sleepers will typically look different to ready to run track unless you also buy track with correct sized sleepers, which can then look "wrong" and slightly narrow gauge. this is something I've done with success before, however the planned upcoming OO layout (your RFID video convinced me in the end) its PECO electrofrog throughout due to time concerns. and thanks for a very simple, but very clear overview
Hi Rob, an excellent video, love the graphics which help with seeing what’s happening re the current flow in the point and the frogs. Hope all is going well re your layout; any sneak peaks yet!!! All best Marc
I also use servo motors with the MERG mount and microswitches but although initially I would remove the spring I stopped doing that as the blade would start moving away from the hinge and wouldn't close properly on rails. Charlie suggests a remedy for this but I just kept the springs. The servo motors have no problem in switching the point and the sound of the blade switching over is feedback for me to know that the point has switched properly.
If you're using Arduinos and servos you could always use relays to handle polarity, that's the route I've gone down and it's just an extra couple of lines in the sketch. Bit of a click when they switch but it's lost amongst servo and train movement.
doing this here, can also use latching relays, works well with slow acting as you can do switching when the servo has finished movement, its a lot more reliable than microswitches that can need adjustment and when it comes down to it the switch isn't telling you where the point is set to, only where the relay is set to anyway. the little commercially available relay boards with built in driver circuits are easy to use for this as well, and you can have a state LED for energised/or not from the driver output line
Peco now make Unifrog points - which can be used "as-is" and will be insulfrog by default, but can also be use as electrofrog by cutting and wiring correctly. I am buying their bullhead track, which has prototypical sleeper spacing and is absolutely lovely to look at, although the points are frightfully expensive (I pick up used finescale flatbottom rail points for hard to see locations to save money).
Thanks for sharing the info in this video. The MERG kit circuits look to be the bee's knees and I would enjoy building them too. So I must get one to test out myself, but if you need a hand to build any give me a shout.
A very good video. I am planning to use Peco electrofrog points on a small dcc layout, but I am not going to wire the points to any point motor. Therefore am I correct to say fitting the plastic joiners at the frog is all I have to do and the points should work just fine?
Excellent vid. I have to wait to get insulating fish plates but instead of that and everything else what if I wired up the siding track to the connecting box that has the loop track wires attached? I am terrible at electronics
A good video and well explained. Although I am still confused over frog juicers. I understand the mods required to the points and presently modifying all my points prior to installation, approx 40 in total. If I use for example, seep or peco, motors, with a switched frog supply, do I still need a frog juicer, to prevent shorting. The cost of juicers would be another £300. Any help would be appreciated from yourselves, or any reader of my problem, Regards, x The Bigfella x
Great video, thank you! I do have a question though! I have a double loop that has 2, two-point crossovers. I'm using the hornby standard insulfrog point. They join the loops on either side of the board - so a train can run around part of the inside loop, out to part of the outer loop and back in to the inside loop again, continuously. the smaller locos seem to handle the points fine but larger locos don't like them at all, and stall or stutter over the points. i've tested the conductivity of the points and they seem fine, so i'm left a bit confused. i have used insulated rail joiners where the points join each other (on both rails). Any ideas welcome!
Hi Rob, I’ve got standard Hornby Insofrog points. Unfortunately my train stops moving when I flick the points to steer the train onto the inner circuit. I’ve tried link power clips but they don’t work. What should I do? Matt
It sounds like switching the points is either isolating the section of track or is causing a short circuit, both of which would cause you loco to stop. Do you have a way to measure the voltage on the track? Analogue or DCC? Which controller?
@@LittleWicketRailway My layout in the standard analogue controller that comes with the sets. I have two sets of points either side of the oval shaped track with two circuits. When the train moves onto the points towards the inner circle of track it stops half way. It has been suggested I put isolating fishplates on the points. If so, where on the points and how many?
Can you point me to anywhere that shows the varuious codes for peco track I am utterly confused and have searched high an low. Some speak of code 100, 80,75 SL 100 etc ???
Hi Gene, this is covered in next weekend's video, but I've been using a mix of mounts purchased from MERG and some I've 3D printed. John JMC has shown me a good DIY method that I've just filmed.
@@LittleWicketRailway Thanks for getting back to me and I look forward to next week's video. I've been looking for a servo mount with the capability of attaching a micro switch like yours.
Been around for years already in the world of hand made track, nothing at all wrong with them. They are a case yet again of the ready to run catching up with what the more niche sides of the hobby have been into for donkeys years.
Hi Roger, I can't really comment because I've not used them (to be honest I didn't know they existed until your comment!), but it sounds like a good idea. Can we used as insulfrog out of the pack, but if you want to power the frog then it sounds like you've got the option. Need to look into what variation of points are available. May not be ideal for DC modellers I suppose.
@@LittleWicketRailway believe peco are looking to move all the models of point over to this system eventually, so your code 100 set track points will eventually have it but be fully backwards compatible with any old stuff but for now its a limited range of the very nice new code 75 bullhead stuff which I have and which is spectacular looking compared to previous offerings. They work just the same as an eceltrofrog if wiring in for that, but you can also treat them like a insulfrog and they'll work fine. All they've done is move the insulation point where you put the insulated rail joiner to inside the point and offered you a metal frog that you wire up in the case of wanting an electrofrog. Think of it as just an insulfrog point but there is an isolated metal tip instead of a plastic tip for the frog qnd a wire coming off it that lets you choose to power it or not, otherwise everything is the same😅
Peco will be introducing unifrog points (such as on their Bullhead range) to the code 100 & 75 streamline ranges which simplify things even further. They can be used out of the box as insulfrog or electrofrog points and won't require insulting rail joiners. I like jazz, but found the levels very intrusive on this video. Sorry :( I'd sooner not have the music at all.
Please don't recommend 'frog juicers'. We should not be doing anything on our model layouts that causes or relies on the side-effects of shorting. If designed properly, a layout should not have any shorts. Shorts can cause all kinds of unexpected behavior and interference issues on DCC layouts. Wire properly and use a conventional switch attached to a point motor. The only justified use of 'frog juicers' is turntables.
Hi great and useful video, but too fast to give you time to absorb the points you are making, which is annoying because they are good points! And the background music is distracting!
I was following that perfectly till 9 mins and it all went over my head. At the beginning you said nothing needed to be done for electrofrog and then suddenly your cutting, clipping and soldering! I guess I'll watch it a few times 😅 great vid. Ta!
Presentation was sharp and snappy! Thank you!
Great video, clearly explained. For those like me who are electrical dunces, I have only 3 Peco electrofrogs on my layout and they are simply wired for those who might think that they don't need to modify the points as you have, even though your method is the best. Insulated joiners on the inside straight ahead and diverging rail and a wire soldered to the rails immediately following the insulated joiner. Obviously this is required where the point leads to a dead end siding, otherwise there would be no power supply to one of the siding rails. So far-touch wood- I have had no issues with electrical continuity forward of the points.
I use servo motors to move my points and to swap the frog polarity, I 3D printed a couple of little brackets and put microswitches on so when the servo changes direction, it switches the microswitch over to change the point polarity. Works quite well for me :)
Can share where you got the 3d file and switches from ?
@@robbhalverson7725 I got them from Thiniverse a fair while ago, got the microswitches off ebay. Make sure you get the right size microswitches, or be good with a CAD program to modify the mount.
I can't post links here, but one similar to the ones I use was.
thing:4064070 on Thingiverse Model Railway Turnout Point Servo Motor Mount **Update 3**
Not identical. I couldn't find the identical one.
Nice explanation, I'm using both inulfrog and electrofrog points on my layout. I had quite a few insulated points so have used them on my DC section but all the DCC section is electrofrog bar one of the two crossings. One I adapted myself but the other I left as its not an easy task and Peco unfortunately don't make electrofrog crossings in code 100. For frog polarity I used small relays that switch the polarity along side the point motor operating, I made a video on this myself a year or so ago.
Thanks for this video Rob. I a few moments you explained something I'd been struggling to get my head around for ages - wiring electrofrog points.
Thanks Jon 👍
spot on matey
it is worth having a go at making points, copper clad sleepers and rail is the cheapest way - either a kit that comes with a template or using Templot and printing.
its not that hard, and it is cheap, also it makes adding longer check rails, conductive checkrails etc easy. also can save a bit of space as its suddenly a lot easier to start points on curves or have say a three way both going the same way - this can be huge in fiddle yards etc
the main cost is time, and needed some sort of motor or rod actuator to lock it, the time issue should not be underestimated - nor should the fact the sleepers will typically look different to ready to run track unless you also buy track with correct sized sleepers, which can then look "wrong" and slightly narrow gauge.
this is something I've done with success before, however the planned upcoming OO layout (your RFID video convinced me in the end) its PECO electrofrog throughout due to time concerns.
and thanks for a very simple, but very clear overview
I'm not brave enough to build my own turnouts.
Hi Rob, an excellent video, love the graphics which help with seeing what’s happening re the current flow in the point and the frogs. Hope all is going well re your layout; any sneak peaks yet!!! All best Marc
Excellent video, I’m just at the point of layout point work so this has come in handy
Cheers Chris 👍
I also use servo motors with the MERG mount and microswitches but although initially I would remove the spring I stopped doing that as the blade would start moving away from the hinge and wouldn't close properly on rails. Charlie suggests a remedy for this but I just kept the springs. The servo motors have no problem in switching the point and the sound of the blade switching over is feedback for me to know that the point has switched properly.
If you're using Arduinos and servos you could always use relays to handle polarity, that's the route I've gone down and it's just an extra couple of lines in the sketch. Bit of a click when they switch but it's lost amongst servo and train movement.
doing this here, can also use latching relays, works well with slow acting as you can do switching when the servo has finished movement, its a lot more reliable than microswitches that can need adjustment and when it comes down to it the switch isn't telling you where the point is set to, only where the relay is set to anyway.
the little commercially available relay boards with built in driver circuits are easy to use for this as well, and you can have a state LED for energised/or not from the driver output line
Great video, exactly what I was looking for 😊
Glad it was helpful!
Peco now make Unifrog points - which can be used "as-is" and will be insulfrog by default, but can also be use as electrofrog by cutting and wiring correctly. I am buying their bullhead track, which has prototypical sleeper spacing and is absolutely lovely to look at, although the points are frightfully expensive (I pick up used finescale flatbottom rail points for hard to see locations to save money).
Thanks for sharing the info in this video. The MERG kit circuits look to be the bee's knees and I would enjoy building them too. So I must get one to test out myself, but if you need a hand to build any give me a shout.
Very well explained. Now I actually think I got me head around frog juicing! :)
Thanks Jens 👍
A very good video. I am planning to use Peco electrofrog points on a small dcc layout, but I am not going to wire the points to any point motor. Therefore am I correct to say fitting the plastic joiners at the frog is all I have to do and the points should work just fine?
Useful information but why the background music? It's like trying to have a serious conversation in a lounge bar.
Great video mate,what do I do about the frog polarity if I am throwing the points manually and not using a juicer or point motor etc
All very interesting stuff
Excellent vid. I have to wait to get insulating fish plates but instead of that and everything else what if I wired up the siding track to the connecting box that has the loop track wires attached? I am terrible at electronics
Well this is an informative video 📹. Enjoyed it.
Another really useful video. Thanks, Rob. When I watched there was piano music in the background that I found intrusive.
Very informative video Rob, well done keep up the great work! 👍
A good video and well explained.
Although I am still confused over frog juicers.
I understand the mods required to the points and presently modifying all my points prior to installation, approx 40 in total.
If I use for example, seep or peco, motors, with a switched frog supply, do I still need a frog juicer, to prevent shorting.
The cost of juicers would be another £300.
Any help would be appreciated from yourselves, or any reader of my problem,
Regards,
x The Bigfella x
Great video, thank you! I do have a question though! I have a double loop that has 2, two-point crossovers. I'm using the hornby standard insulfrog point. They join the loops on either side of the board - so a train can run around part of the inside loop, out to part of the outer loop and back in to the inside loop again, continuously. the smaller locos seem to handle the points fine but larger locos don't like them at all, and stall or stutter over the points. i've tested the conductivity of the points and they seem fine, so i'm left a bit confused. i have used insulated rail joiners where the points join each other (on both rails). Any ideas welcome!
Hi Mark, are you using DC or DCC? It's odd that larger trains struggle.
@@LittleWicketRailway I’m just using dc, I haven’t ventured in to the world of dcc!
Hi Rob,
I’ve got standard Hornby Insofrog points. Unfortunately my train stops moving when I flick the points to steer the train onto the inner circuit. I’ve tried link power clips but they don’t work. What should I do?
Matt
It sounds like switching the points is either isolating the section of track or is causing a short circuit, both of which would cause you loco to stop. Do you have a way to measure the voltage on the track? Analogue or DCC? Which controller?
@@LittleWicketRailway My layout in the standard analogue controller that comes with the sets. I have two sets of points either side of the oval shaped track with two circuits. When the train moves onto the points towards the inner circle of track it stops half way. It has been suggested I put isolating fishplates on the points. If so, where on the points and how many?
Can you point me to anywhere that shows the varuious codes for peco track I am utterly confused and have searched high an low. Some speak of code 100, 80,75 SL 100 etc ???
I need help I've got a set of Electrofrog points and the blade has broken off one what do I do
Afraid I'm not sure how easy these are to fixed.
Where did you get the mount for the servo motor or did you print it yourself? Thanks for a very informative video.
Hi Gene, this is covered in next weekend's video, but I've been using a mix of mounts purchased from MERG and some I've 3D printed. John JMC has shown me a good DIY method that I've just filmed.
@@LittleWicketRailway Thanks for getting back to me and I look forward to next week's video. I've been looking for a servo mount with the capability of attaching a micro switch like yours.
Just thinking 🤔and wondering 😔too.....do you need one of those frog detection things for each 👉 point??
Any thoughts on unifrog Rob?
Been around for years already in the world of hand made track, nothing at all wrong with them. They are a case yet again of the ready to run catching up with what the more niche sides of the hobby have been into for donkeys years.
Hi Roger, I can't really comment because I've not used them (to be honest I didn't know they existed until your comment!), but it sounds like a good idea. Can we used as insulfrog out of the pack, but if you want to power the frog then it sounds like you've got the option. Need to look into what variation of points are available. May not be ideal for DC modellers I suppose.
@@LittleWicketRailway believe peco are looking to move all the models of point over to this system eventually, so your code 100 set track points will eventually have it but be fully backwards compatible with any old stuff but for now its a limited range of the very nice new code 75 bullhead stuff which I have and which is spectacular looking compared to previous offerings.
They work just the same as an eceltrofrog if wiring in for that, but you can also treat them like a insulfrog and they'll work fine. All they've done is move the insulation point where you put the insulated rail joiner to inside the point and offered you a metal frog that you wire up in the case of wanting an electrofrog. Think of it as just an insulfrog point but there is an isolated metal tip instead of a plastic tip for the frog qnd a wire coming off it that lets you choose to power it or not, otherwise everything is the same😅
I'll have a martini, shaken not stirred.
🍸
Peco will be introducing unifrog points (such as on their Bullhead range) to the code 100 & 75 streamline ranges which simplify things even further. They can be used out of the box as insulfrog or electrofrog points and won't require insulting rail joiners.
I like jazz, but found the levels very intrusive on this video. Sorry :( I'd sooner not have the music at all.
Actually, yours is the best description on points I've seen. Better than Chadwick. 👍
Interesting comment that I appreciate but your background piano noises way too loud have a good day mate
Good video but the background jazzy piano music drives me to distraction
Please don't recommend 'frog juicers'. We should not be doing anything on our model layouts that causes or relies on the side-effects of shorting. If designed properly, a layout should not have any shorts. Shorts can cause all kinds of unexpected behavior and interference issues on DCC layouts. Wire properly and use a conventional switch attached to a point motor.
The only justified use of 'frog juicers' is turntables.
Hi great and useful video, but too fast to give you time to absorb the points you are making, which is annoying because they are good points! And the background music is distracting!
Its a shame it isn’t posted on a platform that you can pause the video on 😔 I mean even if they had controls to change the speed of the video…..
Get rid of the god damm music