Tongue Ties; what to do, our opinion, part 2 of 2
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- We do not undertake tongue tie revisions. This area interests me and directly impacts on the work that we do. Tongue tie releases seem to be the new big thing in functional/postural orthodontics.
However the answers are not clear and it seems that we have been here before.
Part 1; • Tongue Ties; what to d...
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Watching you and your father discuss in such an intrinsically professional and mature manner brings joy to my ears.
Thank you, Doctors Mew! I wish either of you could be my Doc! Sadly, I live on the wrong continent. I love how humble both of you are continuing to strive to learn more, not stubbornly attached to whatever beliefs you held at graduation from university. Sadly, that's where the learning ends for many closed-minded people.
During pregnancy, I ate & drank loads of greens, yet my son was born with a tongue tie, which they clipped when he was a day old. The doctor didn't tell me that it would grow back if not stretched, so it grew back, although I was breastfeeding him. As an infant, he struggled to breastfeed, arched back, kicking legs & fiercely chomping to try to get enough, which left me with lacerated breasts & frequent mastitis. I believe the tongue tie also caused him to sleep in a super arched position & and frequently gag & vomit all his milk or when he ate solids, vomiting entire meals. I knew something wasn't right from the beginning. I suspected tongue tie yet, I went to countless doctor appointments, lactation specialists, etc, & none thought his tongue & lip tie were an issue & yet had no answered to the obvious issues. It wasn't until I took him to the dentist at 1 year old that the dentist pointed out that the tongue tie was causing his upper tooth (3rd on the top) to be crooked & tooth decay on the 2 upper front teeth because milk gets trapped there because of the lip tie. From there, I went to an ENT Doc who chastised me & told me that there's little to no benefit to breastfeeding after 6 months of age & that he was obviously thin because I brestfed too much & didn't feed him enough. Horrible words to tell a worried, guilt prone very attentive mother who fed him regular healthy meals & hand expressing in addition because of bleeding lacerated breasts to try to provide him with the countless health benefits & calories of breastmilk. Finally, i found a dentist who specialized in tongue/ lip tie revisions who sent him to a few months out occupational therapy for a few months. When he was 15 months old, he finally had the lip & tongue revisions done with a lazer. I was told that I needed to stretch both every 4 hours for 2 weeks so that it didn't reattach, which was heartbreaking, but we got through it. Within 2 months we had huge improvements. Less gagging & vomiting at meals & more comfortable breastfeeding. He also quickly slept in a relaxed, not arched position. We have continued to breastfeed until 4 1/2 years old because of the huge improvements after the lip & tongue revisions. I don't know how we would have survived otherwise. I feel a lot of guilt for not making it happen sooner. By the way, his teeth have straightened out beautifully. I'm still concerned that the tongue tie caused him to mouth breath sometimes. I purchased a myomunchee, hoping it'd help him strengthen his mouth muscles to keep his lips closed, but he gags on it & can't keep it in. So now I'm wondering if I should return to occupational therapy to see if there's anything else we should be doing. I'm going to try to work with him to mew, sit up straight at meals, chew with mouth closed, etc. If anyone else has any ideas, please let me know!
Hope the best for you and your little one. My 4-year-old suffered, and no doctor on the NHS noticed that he had a tongue tie. Even the specialists that we were referred to just said he was his tonsils. But the little one was breathing through the mouth and started to have sleep apnea. His speech was not developing well. Was taking longer to eat and could not swallow his food easily. His weight was an issue. Last November, I took him to Belgium, and thank God an ENT discovered straight his problems ( tongue tie, tongue space). She immediately operated because his breathing during his sleep was getting very worrying some. Now he sleeps well at night, no more snoring or sleep apnea. I am trying to make him sleep with his mouth close. I will buy him those tapes and see if he will help. Although he is not fully verbal yet, he is uttering more words than before. Hope your one recovers fully. Hang in there, mum.
Expanding the tongue tie through breastfeeding does not always work, I had twins not long ago, and they vere both tiny at birth, just over 2 kg, one grew and the other not. Once the smallest baby had her tongue and lip tie cut at about 5 weeks old, she grew big really fast! Best decision we ever made, and I realized after the she actually could not nurse properly the poor thing… now she loves breastfeeding and sleeps really well at both nap and night time❤ they should check all babes at birth, I feel guilty that I did not act/notice sooner…
I agree. Doctors in my area don't seem to want to acknowledge tongue tie issues, so after going to countless doctors, lactionation specialists & and ENT. I gave up until my son's dentist pointed the issue out. He didn't get a lazer revision on tongue & lip ties until he was 18 months old. Don't beat yourself up over not having it done until 5 weeks old. Please note that I learned that it was necessary to stretch the revisions every 4 hours for 2 weeks so it doesn't reattach.
I still dont understand. Remove or not remove tongue tie?
Remove
yes. you must do therapy/exercises for 9 mos. to a year to prevent re-attachment . My 17 yr. old just had his revision surgery. I breast fed him for almost 2 years. so that was not the cause. No one mentioned he had a tongue tie until he was 16. he had 9 months of therapy preparing him for the surgery...his tie was quite long and wide. it has def. affected his teeth , his enamel (since his saliva didn't surround his teeth to mineralize) , his bite and his palate form. looking back probably affected his ability to get the hind milk when breastfeeding, which caused a lot of milk coming back up in the early days, short sleep periods as a baby, since the hind milk didn't keep a full stomach. and he had some speech issues which he eventually overcame on his own. My other 4 children have no ties....
the 9 months of therapy pre-release included myofunctional therapy with palate expanding and tongue exercises daily.
Can you please give any updates?
Thank you very much.
Did you guys use a pallet expander or did you expand some other way?
Hi Dr mew i'm 16 and i am currently wearing braces, i'm wondering whether i should be chewing gum, i'm worried that i'm slowing or hindering the treatment. thanks!
How did your treatment go? Are you satisfied with he results?
Hello Professor and Dr Mew,
Something you are missing in the case of tongue tie release surgery is that a lot of surgeons now require patients to undertake myofunctional therapy prior to and post surgery not just stretching to prevent reattachment. The reason I feel this is significant is because it reminds me of your own practice with orthotropics, you require adult patients to put in significant work before taking them on as a patient. I feel like tongue tie release is somewhat the same. It requires a good surgeon and also a dedicated patient to get an optimal result. Just releasing the frenum without retraining the muscles won’t change tongue posture and function. To get an adequate release it also requires that the surgery is done by a doctor who understands that releasing the anterior tie is not all that is required and that most ties have a posterior restriction that goes deeper into the muscle and also requires release for correct tongue function to occur. Dr Soroush Zaghi is someone who explains this very well. He also has some great insight as to why people feel such a release through their entire bodies post surgery. Hopefully some Doctors in the UK will realise the importance of a full functional release in the near future.
Thank you for your comments, we do consider myofunctional exercises mandatory before and after tongue tie release, sorry if we do not highlight this in the discussion. Remember that this is a discussion between us not an educational video to guide patients, #mikemew
Hi, can a 1 year old child do those exercises? Or is it better to wait for the surgery until he is able ti do the exercises, and how old would that be? I plan to breastfeed him until 3 or 4 years old but I noticed is always holding his jaw backwards, so I doubt breastfeeding alone work for him and I would like it to wait to long for the surgery. What age would you recommend?
@@juhan4511for babies it would require you to manually stretch the wound to prevent the scar from reattaching. Babies won’t be compliant to post op stretches.
Can we please get the review you were mentioning now? I'm really looking for answers!
John mew is in his 90s so he has been mewing for decades and I just noticed his really high cheekbones
He has flat shit cheekbones he’s just 100 years old so they look chiseled
But a posterior tie etc is still a restriction, and that will affect the fascia and whole body because the jaw muscles are trying to compensate, and also it seems it would make it harder to have proper tongue posture.
So isn’t a revision a good thing as long as it’s done with myo functional therapy?
Mike Mew looks nothing like his dad. He's got excellent facial structure. Looks are not genetic as he's been saying it. He is proof of that.
stfu
Mike was treated by his father by a bioblock which is guiding the facial growth forward. So you can see the results excellent cheek bones, great lower jaw and proper tongue up posture and functional swallow.
There are more studies now on tongue tie by Dr. Zaghi an ENT from L. A. You can find his lectures on RUclips.
Can oral posture fix assymetry ? (One eye bigger than the other, lips etc)
His father's face was destroyed by traditional dentistry. So there's that
My god I could listen to you two discuss for hours. Such great minds. Some of the few 'real' doctors left in this world. Come on Mike and John Mew!
Hey could you please summarize the video for us. I am having a hard time understanding the video due to accent :( I really want to understand what is being said.
@@jaspreetsingh8434I’m an english speaker, and I’m struggling to understand the video as well. It seems unstructured, not super clear, not simple.
a.tongue tie can cause neck problems. It is better to get rid of it as soon as possible, but not rushing into it. You have to train your tongue immensely before and after the surgery for it to be successful.
p.s. I still think the younger you get the release the better. I wish somebody had noticed mine before. I practically had to beg my dentist to get mine released because she wouldn't believe me that it was causing me neck tension and pain.
Could you please expand your experience? Thanks M
Orthotropics As I understand proper tongue posture in people who have the tongue tie (by which I mean of course elevating the tongue to the palate) has to recruit facial and neck muscles that people without the tethered tissue don’t have to. This causes tension. In fact, in my case I wasn’t even able to fully rotate my neck until I had the procedure done. I am still recovering and there is still a remnant of the tie I have to excercise to fully release. The more released the more relaxed I feel. I wish I had access to a myofunctional therapist, we don’t have those nor othrotopics in Mexico. But ever since I had my tongue tie release the orthrotropic changes in my face and teeth have immediately accelerated. I also have braces right now, and I think they are interfering with these changes right now. I am going to ask my orthodontist to remove them, as I think my tongue’s expansión force in opposition to the braces is damaging my teeth roots. Which is frankly scary.
P.S. in my case it was only a mild tongue tie
@@jeffersongutierritos3423Can you tell me what you ended up doing with your braces treatment? I also have braces right now
@@applemasta7371 They helped me a great deal to get proper occlusion, and despite a few hiccups in the treatment, due to tongue thrusting, it went fine . However, I do think this is largely because of the orthodontist implementing the treatment. I had had them once before with an awful practitioner who said my overbite couldn't be fixed without removing teeth. Thankfully my parents didn't allow him to do this, so his treatment was worthless. I relapsed and had a couple of tough years until I found out about mewing and myofunctional therapy, but I was also lucky enough to find a practitioner who helped me get proper function regarding my bite (aesthetics is really secondary to this and improves over time If you have the correct postures).
I have a posterior tongue tie, but I do think it has actually gave me a more aesthetic look. With a posterior tongue tie, the floor of the mouth moves with the posterior part of the tongue, thus engaging the muscles in the neck. I have noticed since, I was teenager my neck muscles seem more structured compared to most people, and you can also see my collar bone is also more pronounced. I think this may be due to my posterior part of my tongue being more closely engaged to the floor of my mouth, so when I do suction my tongue, it engages other muscles as well. People do say tongue ties can cause neck pain etc, I have never experienced any pain in my neck or any headaches. I can still touch my palate with the whole of my tongue with my mouth shut, so I don't know whether it is best to just leaving it be.
Are there any drawbacks with a posterior tongue tie even if you can still touch your palate with the mouth closed?
Do you have TMJ issues?
@@matth9657 good question. I have a posterior tongue tie and do have TMJ issues, lots of cracking sounds etc
Ok so the answer to if a baby has to suck hard at breast feeding is no. The sucking isn’t to mechanically draw the milk out. It’s very soft sucking to stimulate the breast to release milk. There are some misunderstandings in this discussion
i had my tongue tie done a few months ago and it created a painful blister/ bubble on my tongue that every week leaks some blood( i still have it) . My surgeon instead of snipping the tie did a big 4 inch cut along the tongue so it wouldnt grow back.
Got another operation and its fixed now 🙂
good luck mate
Are you able to mew properly now ?
@@J21-j9v has it improved oral health? I'm thinking about doing it
@@DairangerSentai7 the tongue tie release surgery helped me stick my tongue out further which helps in the bedroom. That’s the only benefit I’ve seen
God damnit Mike, stop interrupting your father. He is the real OG, let him speak his wisdom
I'm trying to understand the root of my daughter's oral problems, and so far I can only come to the conclusion that it must be her tongue-tie. Unfortunately my experience does not support your hypotheses. I have always tested above the range of the test for folate without taking any supplements, and both my daughters were born with tongue ties (one borderline, one more severe). I eat lots of greens and veggies. Secondly, I breastfed my children for 3.5 years each, exclusively for 6 months, and this did not remove their tongue ties (least of all the more severe case). I have also been hounding them to keep their mouths closed and teeth touching forever. It's so frustrating to take the time to get informed on these issues and go above and beyond to do everything right, and still end up with problems. I was hoping that giving the tongue a fuller range would help it to promote proper maxillar forward growth from that point on. Now I'm afraid the tongue tie will return after the release, and I don't have access to an orthotropics or forwardontics professional to expand the tongue space beforehand. Winging it at this point and hoping for the best.
Hey! I'd love to hear any updates on your kids tongue ties if you wanna share.
I did various stretches for years, as well as various prehab and breathing exercises. It all kinda helped but I still suffer from lots of issues. I was also breastfed for a long time, and my mother did have a good diet and lifestyle. I think it really is something that needs to be dealt with via surgery. Hopefully I'll be getting a release from a doctor in the UK soon!
I have a deep bite and I previously had a tongue between teeth posture.... now I tried my best to correct my posture and my tongue is not vertically in between teeth anymore, but it is at the back of my palate so when I’m conscious I try to get it forward to get an even palate but when I’m unconscious, only God knows what’ll happen..
P.S. I have SEVERE bruxism both daytime and nighttime and am balancing it during daytime using my tongue
@Orthotropics, did you ever review the patients with tongue ties that did and didn’t have Orthotropic treatments?
When you were talking about how no society in the modern age would breast feed for 3-4 years, for that I have to say we can make it happen. Women practice something called the "sexy son hypothesis", where they're trying to maximize their son's looks so that he has a better chance of reproducing. Which is how we got the peacock's tail, or why women always try to go for tall guys. If it is established that breast feeding for 3-4 years brings great improvement in a child's development, all we have to do is spread the info and women's competitiveness will do the rest.
Any advice on how to create more tongue space in adults? Is orthodontic treatment / palate expanders required or can it be done with just myo exercises?
Well I’m set to have mine released next week and this doesn’t inspire much confidence. I’ve already run into several clinicians who think it a useless endeavor. How is a patient supposed to discern the right course with such conflicting/convoluted opinions?
My 18 month has tongue tie and I’ve strictly breastfed her and still am to this day. This gives me hope. I’m glad I stuck with breastfeeding for this long. I’m not sure if I should consider two more years of breastfeeding or surgery for revision… ughh
What can I do about a posterior tongue tie without having surgery? My front of my tongue is pretty elastic just the posterior?
You can loosen up the fascia in the whole body, because that's what it connects to.
@@kittendivine1 Sorry, only just saw your reply! What exercises would you recommend to loosen up the fascia? I cannot find any surgery's in my country (UK) that release a posterior tongue tie, only the front which I don't need. And after looking at this video, and people's experiences of a surgical tongue tie release, I think removing the frenlum can do more harm than good so loosening up seems like the best way of treating it. Thanks , will be grateful if you can recommend some exercises :)
@@Matty-H For the tongue itself you can look up 'tongue tie exercises'. As far as the fascia in the whole body goes: there are a lot of different opinions on what works best.
@@kittendivine1 Ok thanks! I've noticed when I do lift my posterior tongue up the floor of the mouth comes up with it, I've heard this can cause tension in the neck which does concern me a bit as I want to be mewing 24/7. However because there are no surgeons that release the posterior in my country I'm going to have to try the tongue tie exercises like you said. Thanks I'll see what I can find.
@@Matty-H could you solve it? i have the exact same problem as you.
This gives me hope for my tongue tie that I could improve it without surgery 🙌
I didn't understood both the videos can you summarise the part of whats the solution for it
@@rhutvikmadake5152 He said swallowing using your tongue, as he explains more in other videos, might have a positive effect on tongue ties.
@@rhutvikmadake5152you are not alone. I found this unclear and rambly, confusing, not simple.
@@kevcorylawrence8317I’ve watched multiple videos from this source and they are all as clear as mud. Thought it was just me.
People watching with earphone : oh one ear gone
Also I breast fed both my kids till 3 and they are both having issues still from their tongue tie at 4 and 6 years old so we will try a release. I understand that tongue stretching exercises are needed before and after surgery. Was this done with your clients? Maybe the Dr. Doesn’t teach that there. All I know is one of my kids can’t reach the roof of their mouth with anything but the very tip of their tongue
Is the solution to make a feeding bottle that gets the child to function similar to nursing. Then you could use that until the child is 3-4? Do you think it would be arrogant to think you can imitate a process that has been evolving for millions of years.
It would be possible to make something much more similar to a human breast but then how are you going to repeatedly sterilize it? And produce this cheaply? Since the competition is dirt cheap and simple.
Hi Dr. Mew I had a question regarding orthotropic sleep considerations. What is the best sleep position, and does the tongue need to rest on the roof of the mouth during this time as well? Thanks Dr. Mew and looking forward to your reply.
Stoic Warrior I’m not an expert on sleeping positions but your tongue should rest on the roof of your mouth at rest, having a bath, walking (see the Abs walk), on the internet almost all the time.
The tongue should come away from the roof of the mouth when you talk, when you eat (or swallow) and when you respiratory requirements require you to orally breath (an interesting subject). M
Thank you Dr. Mew.
Orthotropics do you mean the tongue can go away from the palate while doing high intensity sports, Sir?
im planning to get a tongue tie release
Paul Christian Kreitz did ya do it ?
Did ya
Did ya?
Do it. Get it cut
Should I push my lower jaw forward while holding my tongue at the roof of the mouth? Because if I don't I look really strange but if I do it's really hard to hold and every time i swallow the jaw goes back....
Eric Koivisto don’t do that, it is is immensely dangerous to project the jaw. The tongue in the roof of the mouth will give you the forward projection without the damage but it takes time. Make sure your entire tongue is resting on your palate, not just your tip.
So should he push his jas forward or not??
Jaw
@@jekrkrbddbkfbrbebdjd8952 I heard it’s better to have it on it’s natural positions because the contact of the molars causes the actually facial upswing
I'm interested in knowing how tongue thrust affects mewing. The older gentleman clearly has one. Has he ever become his own subject on this. Im sure his facial structure has changed since he was a young lad. This is fascinating stuff.
Is it possible for someone to stand up straight and have their mouth shut and still get crowded teeth?
EmbraceWithin, clearly yes, this was just a sound bite 😎
One with a chunk of truth
This isn't related to tounge ties but Is a myobrace something that you would recommend? Because it seems to be based on the exact same principle that your practice is based off of just using a different device to train the oral and facial muscles into correct posture
The guy who developed it study with my Dad, and did Orthotropics for a bit, he found it quite difficult, not very profitable and came up with Myobrace. I think that it is certainly better than fixed brace, but it is still what you do not what someone does for you that counts, simple rule. The tongue is the best appliance there is any most people have one. #mikemew
thank you for this video!
What is the difference between orthotropics and myofunctional orthodontics?
Lots
Orthotropics, in detail pls... if u don't mind...
I do mind, this would be a thesis, when I update the www.orthotropics.com web site this is something that I will discuss
Now I'm wondering if pacifiers are good for babies :/
Hi Catocat, you can find the answer here tmdocclusion.com/home/total-body-health/muscles-chains/tongue-essential-muscle-for-bodys-health/
Prob not.
Mmm, so, is it possible to do a bad tongue tie revision cirgury?
So, is it still possible to mew whilst having a tonge ties??
Jefferson Johanes is it? Still wanna know this
simplyapollo but surely not to the fullest potential?
Konrad two months ago i couldnt... now i dont even notice that im tongue tied because of all the tongue exercises and hard mewing i did... so im getting my full potential for sure
@@IamTechNerd i've changed my opinion and deleted my last post. i think mewing with a tongue tie is a bad idea and you should get surgery to fix it
@@SimplyApollo
what if it's a mild tongue tie?
Is that Mike's son
That's his dad
この動画は以下の RUclips サイトにて日本語字幕付きでご覧いただけます。
Japanese translation of this movie is available below.
amapolaortho2.org/post-1468/