@ I could but that doesn’t really change the timing that much but makes faster yes it can catch your opponent off sometimes but if they can see your vanish then it keeps on going
@Miklo-samma i mean yeah, it's a fighting game. Those the tools you get. That's like saying if you master evasion in Tekken the match can go on forever. Like yes, but it's about using your tools to the point that doesn't happen.
I played enough league of legends (unfortunately) to know that you cannot make something super powerful and have it be balanced by being "really hard to do". Hopefully bandai does something to super counters.
Man if super Counters were an instant dodge resource like in the naruto storm games that you have to use wisely because they are limited and come back slow, people wouldn't spam them, but it could get you out of multiple different dangerous situations.
Wouldn’t that make them harder-to-land backup Vanish Counters ? The only difference would be that they have their own resource, rather than using Ki alongside most moves
@@Idontknowwhattowrite150 Not at all. Not sure if you have played those games or not, but the window to instantly dodge almost anything is huge, the trade off is that you only can have four at any given time, and they come back very slowly unless you take damage. It would require the tweaking of other things, but this game needs a powerful escape option, that can't be infinitely spammed, but also keeps you safe unless your opponent can read you well. It's honestly how the vanishes should have been in this game. It adds another layer of strategy when it comes to baiting dodges and knowing when to use them.
@@EXXKALIBUR I’ve played the Storm games, and yeah, the Substitutiom window is very generous. I agree with the idea, especially with tweaking the game for that mechanic, considering how Storm combos have a predictable end while Sparking Zero combos can tie into those heavy hitter moves
@@Idontknowwhattowrite150 Yeah you could end up with a very fun free flow offense and defense style. It's too bad a lot of games outside of the 2d fighters don't look to each other and find out what strengths and weaknesses they can have without being a complete copy of the other games. At least we know they aren't afraid to make drastic changes to the mechanics so we'll have to see and adapt.
If anything perception need to be nerfed atleast make it so you can’t spam it I can’t tell you how many time I’ve seen these characters spazzing out from slamming their inputs in fear
The funniest part is you win all these encounters. Youre asking for a nerf that would actually extend the longevity of the game for more casual players and not cater solely to the players on top. Respect.
I’m so tired of doing super counter and getting super countered and sometimes it’s inconsistent they have to rework or completely change all the defense/counter mechanics And hopefully add more offense mechanics like how they added high-speed dragon dash
I think Supercountering vanishes is fair game cause it speeds up and gets more difficult with each successive one, but the SC vs SC war should probably be looked at cause two people who know how to do it can pretty much do it infinitely.
Z-Counters(the equivalent mechanic) in BT3 were balanced because Knockback Chains ended in a Neutral Return when you had no Ki for another one. You didn't lose Ki, but you still Vanished. Mashing Rush Melee meant the other one could hold Perception, Sonic Sway you and then you were back at Melee. It was balanced and fair. Super Counters in SZ are skill checks. You either can do them in Knockback Chains or MUI Goku is hitting you for 10k damage unopposed. Extremely dumb mechanic.
It should consume skill bar like ki for z vanishes and stack higher and higher how much it consumes with each consecutive one. Over a 5 second time maybe
@kmodahighest Super counters need some sort of resource. If someone masters super counters, how do u play against that? From experience I'll tell u it's difficult
@ that’s the whole point we have garbage tier characters so mastering the most important and powerful mechanic in the game is a work around for that and also the reason why this game is ass is because it’s based on the most boring version of dragon ball SUPER the writing in super was just bad tbh they’re working with what was given and I believe that for someone to play neutral like gogeta ssj4 who is super strong is good for people who like to use characters like Mr satan
I hate when ppl cry about nerfing super counters , the way u set up ur raggedy ass combos is bound to get super countered understand timing and switching play styles then maybe u wouldn’t get constantly super countered sounds like a huge skill issue
I wouldn’t mind them if it weren’t for the fact they nerfed revenge counter now you legit have 0 ways to make them stay engaged. It’s literally vanish war simulator and whoever has more ki still wins so the patch effectively was useless
super counter needs higher cooldown if you miss you shouldnt be able to do it at least for 1 second. Not to mention spamming shouldnt work at all( now it works). if everyone does it so good that means its not good mechanic, its too easy to do , and in some matches due to lag its impossible to do xD but well this game needs at laest 1 year of patches to be actually worth playing
@@michaelseay2024 thats so true. before they could implement supercounters like in bt3 they have to fix their delay code or just like a good game, implement rollback. supercounters and vanishes feel different from game to game
Maybe the can add an option to pull out of the fight after a successful super counter so people aren't forced into a back and fourth. Another option is to have them on some sort of cool down so you cant spam them, not sure how this would effect the game though. My last suggestion if you don't want the cool down is to increase the speed of the counters after each one, like they did with vanishes. It's cool to watch one of these super counter battles the first couple of times, but then it just gets a bit tedious and interrupts the flow of the game. The game should be more fast paced, shouldn't be on the same health bar for an hour doing this nonsense.
Nobody has mastered sc tho so I don’t see the point connections are iffy as Is they already made it harder after 3 it gets faster and faster 😂 u guys won’t ever be satisfied
People need to stop complaining about things that don’t need to be touched the super counter is already TWO FRAMES MEANING A ONE SECOND WINDOW If they touch the super counter it would be impossible to do them they’re fine , they were in bt3 to if you can’t adapt go play Fortnite no builds
Dude you can legit spam your analog stick and get a SC legit the worse players can spam SC but can't do anything elss keep in mind the game has only been out for like 3 months and everyone can spam them what do you think gonna happen in a year or even 2 years the game is legit gonna be unplayable
@@XrescentX it’s not hard to deal with my guy if someone mashes super counter you can super counter them back and if they they mashing and you actually know how to Time it this isn’t a issue you don’t see top players complaining about super counters
@@1Vontezgaming i also don't see top players consistently doing that basically what your saying is you have to be wayyy better than your opponent to get pass SC do you honestly not see a problem with that? Not to mention if the opponent is using someone like mui goku they can legit do a bar of health from a knock back while playimg passively and spamming ki blast
@ well clearly you haven’t been watching top players play that is if not the most important part of defense it’s one of the most important parts , if you can’t consistently super counter because of connection than you need to only play against 5bars or get wired for ps5 because 4bar connections has unplayable input delay on ps5 if that’s a issue for you than you going to have to switch to pc cuz that’s not a problem on pc you can consistently super counter 4bar connections… but yes you have to be better at super countering people that you say “mash it “ that’s the only way to get around it and if your not willing to get better than the average player than don’t play fighting games you can’t try to change a mechanic when you can’t adapt to it your punishing players who put time in the lab
Sorry but that's not it. The point of using super counters is to not use ki, there would be no point using it if it costs ki since it's harder to pull off than vanishes
Nah they need to BUFF or balance super counters! With these fast ass characters 4 frames to execute is fucking insanity, make that timing window more forgiving but in return add a cooldown to it or make it cost ki. Backshots are asinine in this game
If they nerf super counter, then they should do something with the infinite combo chain bug that some characters haves like mui and ss4 gogeta. Same combo twice or more shouldn't be possible. Otherwise everyone will do infinite combo from your back, killing more the game and making it more boring.
Yes let’s nerf the small timing window in lag mechanic that gets you out of combos and is the one way to stop you from being turned into a pinball without ki(made it easier to escape with increased ki drain per vanish). Next let’s nerf blocking
To be fair, the defensive mechanics are very strong in this game It's not _just_ super counter, but with all the defensive mechanics you have, plus super counter, it's very difficult to get any reward out of agressing your opponent
@ That’s why you stagger your hits and mix up different trips, stuns, and resets. Holding perception? Dash around it or shoot ki blasts until they decide to drop the button and fight. Only thing that really needs a nerf is laddering and regen. Can never catch people who ladder because tracking is so off.
If 2 ppl who've mastered the super counter battle, the timer would probably end up running out every time
I already hit the time limit when casually fighting my friends, it's always been too short especially for a skilled 5v5
It does
Ehhhhh, but that's the thing about mastering them
Cuz now, you mix it up with a vanish and fuck your opponent's timing
@ I could but that doesn’t really change the timing that much but makes faster yes it can catch your opponent off sometimes but if they can see your vanish then it keeps on going
@Miklo-samma i mean yeah, it's a fighting game. Those the tools you get.
That's like saying if you master evasion in Tekken the match can go on forever. Like yes, but it's about using your tools to the point that doesn't happen.
First time seeing a Super Counter war. Also, Whis’ “Staawp.” Was just funny.
😂😂😂😂
Love how he sounds like someone stole his pudding and not that he's getting a fist in the face.
"Staaaahp" "how feeble" " *fruitiest moan you've ever heard in your life* "
Tbh, I do not think SCs should reset knockback chains
Good change imo
I think super counters should set you back to neutral and that’s it. It should serve only as a combo breaker.
Yeah that's dumb. It's like they punish you for super countering that
This! I thought I had the right idea trying to super counter my way out of a vanish war (no ki) and it led to me getting punished so much harder
I played enough league of legends (unfortunately) to know that you cannot make something super powerful and have it be balanced by being "really hard to do". Hopefully bandai does something to super counters.
sounds so satisfying, also since when was Whis so zesty T-T
Staaaaaph
He’s always been zesty
@@silly-namekian Whis has always been zesty😂
Man if super Counters were an instant dodge resource like in the naruto storm games that you have to use wisely because they are limited and come back slow, people wouldn't spam them, but it could get you out of multiple different dangerous situations.
Wouldn’t that make them harder-to-land backup Vanish Counters ? The only difference would be that they have their own resource, rather than using Ki alongside most moves
@@Idontknowwhattowrite150 Not at all. Not sure if you have played those games or not, but the window to instantly dodge almost anything is huge, the trade off is that you only can have four at any given time, and they come back very slowly unless you take damage. It would require the tweaking of other things, but this game needs a powerful escape option, that can't be infinitely spammed, but also keeps you safe unless your opponent can read you well. It's honestly how the vanishes should have been in this game. It adds another layer of strategy when it comes to baiting dodges and knowing when to use them.
@@EXXKALIBUR I’ve played the Storm games, and yeah, the Substitutiom window is very generous. I agree with the idea, especially with tweaking the game for that mechanic, considering how Storm combos have a predictable end while Sparking Zero combos can tie into those heavy hitter moves
@@Idontknowwhattowrite150 Yeah you could end up with a very fun free flow offense and defense style. It's too bad a lot of games outside of the 2d fighters don't look to each other and find out what strengths and weaknesses they can have without being a complete copy of the other games. At least we know they aren't afraid to make drastic changes to the mechanics so we'll have to see and adapt.
How to use super counter?
If anything perception need to be nerfed atleast make it so you can’t spam it I can’t tell you how many time I’ve seen these characters spazzing out from slamming their inputs in fear
At least unlike spamming perception it's something skill related but it's frustrating not being able to do a combo for more then 3 consecutive seconds
I wish I could super counter like that fr. I still don’t understand how to super counter combos ☠️
@zSA1YAN Just keep playing you will eventually, practice makes perfect
playing jump force made super counters easy
The funniest part is you win all these encounters. Youre asking for a nerf that would actually extend the longevity of the game for more casual players and not cater solely to the players on top. Respect.
Im glad im not the only one playing ss4 vegeta
Bandai be like:
What do you want from me (again) ? 🥲🥲
"Stooop ~❤" 😂😂😂 whis what?! ☠️☠️☠️
I’m so tired of doing super counter and getting super countered and sometimes it’s inconsistent they have to rework or completely change all the defense/counter mechanics And hopefully add more offense mechanics like how they added high-speed dragon dash
God forbid the game is a LITTLE bit laggy. There goes all the practice you put in to learn how to SC.
Laggy matches for me happen ALOT on pc
I think Supercountering vanishes is fair game cause it speeds up and gets more difficult with each successive one, but the SC vs SC war should probably be looked at cause two people who know how to do it can pretty much do it infinitely.
No way it's like a dangerous game of patty cake! 😃
Z-Counters(the equivalent mechanic) in BT3 were balanced because Knockback Chains ended in a Neutral Return when you had no Ki for another one. You didn't lose Ki, but you still Vanished. Mashing Rush Melee meant the other one could hold Perception, Sonic Sway you and then you were back at Melee. It was balanced and fair.
Super Counters in SZ are skill checks. You either can do them in Knockback Chains or MUI Goku is hitting you for 10k damage unopposed. Extremely dumb mechanic.
Remove them, allow revenge counter from behind, voila
Nobody:
Whis: STAWWP 😩💅
Nerf? Without super Counter we cant defend our self, we need it.
You mess up, your opponent punishes you. That's how fighting games work. You should not have a free out of jail card.
It should consume skill bar like ki for z vanishes and stack higher and higher how much it consumes with each consecutive one. Over a 5 second time maybe
No, make em more power. I want a whole health bar gone when I use one.😅
Super counters are fine
@kmodahighest Super counters need some sort of resource. If someone masters super counters, how do u play against that? From experience I'll tell u it's difficult
@ that’s the whole point we have garbage tier characters so mastering the most important and powerful mechanic in the game is a work around for that and also the reason why this game is ass is because it’s based on the most boring version of dragon ball SUPER the writing in super was just bad tbh they’re working with what was given and I believe that for someone to play neutral like gogeta ssj4 who is super strong is good for people who like to use characters like Mr satan
@ and difficult doesn’t always mean bad
Plz don t, nerf perception
Bro iff you can hit duper counters that consistently then I'm afraid that's just being hood at the game.
Love super counters except when they break my combos
SC could either cost a skill gauge like perception/revenge counter or cost a bar or two of Ki.
I hate when ppl cry about nerfing super counters , the way u set up ur raggedy ass combos is bound to get super countered understand timing and switching play styles then maybe u wouldn’t get constantly super countered sounds like a huge skill issue
One might do nothing but wonder how in the hell are you people even able to pull this bs.
SC only need ajustment, like the frane window to do it to make it less smashable
I wish this game stayed relevant a bit longer 😔 Potential is there
yes, very big pontential but bandai dont need potential, money is made.
I wouldn’t mind them if it weren’t for the fact they nerfed revenge counter now you legit have 0 ways to make them stay engaged. It’s literally vanish war simulator and whoever has more ki still wins so the patch effectively was useless
SZ has become one of the most frantic games of rock, paper, scissors to date. Suck it Ultimate Tenkaichi!
super counter needs higher cooldown if you miss you shouldnt be able to do it at least for 1 second. Not to mention spamming shouldnt work at all( now it works). if everyone does it so good that means its not good mechanic, its too easy to do , and in some matches due to lag its impossible to do xD but well this game needs at laest 1 year of patches to be actually worth playing
Hey thats me in there 😅 ggs bro
Dont people on pc use steam macros for super counter ?
yeah sc need some changes, but can u give us some long video? i need my dose
@@oferlord7030 Gotchu
All they have to do it revert it to the way it was in bt3 was wayyyy harder 1 frame input and 23 sec cooldown like this can’t be a true BT game
It isn’t they clearly don’t know what they’re doing. They either only test in house or just simply don’t care about the game.
@@michaelseay2024 thats so true. before they could implement supercounters like in bt3 they have to fix their delay code or just like a good game, implement rollback. supercounters and vanishes feel different from game to game
Maybe the can add an option to pull out of the fight after a successful super counter so people aren't forced into a back and fourth.
Another option is to have them on some sort of cool down so you cant spam them, not sure how this would effect the game though.
My last suggestion if you don't want the cool down is to increase the speed of the counters after each one, like they did with vanishes.
It's cool to watch one of these super counter battles the first couple of times, but then it just gets a bit tedious and interrupts the flow of the game. The game should be more fast paced, shouldn't be on the same health bar for an hour doing this nonsense.
Super counter means he got the skill to Time the hit deserves to stop your chain or attacks lol
They need to nerf super counter
teach us the timing bro
on console its actually different (earlier bc of delay). on pc its the moment when the attack lands, aka the arm/fist got already through your body.
My body remembers that attack it won’t work anymore nice try
Nobody has mastered sc tho so I don’t see the point connections are iffy as Is they already made it harder after 3 it gets faster and faster 😂 u guys won’t ever be satisfied
dont nerf counters, they need to nerf opact before he becomes too powerful
No.
People need to stop complaining about things that don’t need to be touched the super counter is already TWO FRAMES MEANING A ONE SECOND WINDOW If they touch the super counter it would be impossible to do them they’re fine , they were in bt3 to if you can’t adapt go play Fortnite no builds
Dude you can legit spam your analog stick and get a SC legit the worse players can spam SC but can't do anything elss keep in mind the game has only been out for like 3 months and everyone can spam them what do you think gonna happen in a year or even 2 years the game is legit gonna be unplayable
It's not even hard to do
@@XrescentX it’s not hard to deal with my guy if someone mashes super counter you can super counter them back and if they they mashing and you actually know how to Time it this isn’t a issue you don’t see top players complaining about super counters
@@1Vontezgaming i also don't see top players consistently doing that basically what your saying is you have to be wayyy better than your opponent to get pass SC do you honestly not see a problem with that? Not to mention if the opponent is using someone like mui goku they can legit do a bar of health from a knock back while playimg passively and spamming ki blast
@ well clearly you haven’t been watching top players play that is if not the most important part of defense it’s one of the most important parts , if you can’t consistently super counter because of connection than you need to only play against 5bars or get wired for ps5 because 4bar connections has unplayable input delay on ps5 if that’s a issue for you than you going to have to switch to pc cuz that’s not a problem on pc you can consistently super counter 4bar connections… but yes you have to be better at super countering people that you say “mash it “ that’s the only way to get around it and if your not willing to get better than the average player than don’t play fighting games you can’t try to change a mechanic when you can’t adapt to it your punishing players who put time in the lab
Super counters should never be touched
Perception is way more broken 🤦🏻♂️
My opponent sitting in perception 🤓
Me sidestepping them 😌
Perception still hitting me from the side/back 🤢
@ exactly and we got people complaining about the only defense mechanic that takes timing and labbing it makes no sense
@@1Vontezgaming i do agree many things need to be considered for the next patch
No , just make it better
What They need is to take ki when they are successful like vanishes and it wouldn't be as big a problem
Sorry but that's not it. The point of using super counters is to not use ki, there would be no point using it if it costs ki since it's harder to pull off than vanishes
@@MR.PRONTOexactly makes no sense
They're just too easy, in bt3 not even the best of players could do something even close to this
Issshhh I wish I had them like this😅 they need to nerf perception
Nah they need to BUFF or balance super counters! With these fast ass characters 4 frames to execute is fucking insanity, make that timing window more forgiving but in return add a cooldown to it or make it cost ki. Backshots are asinine in this game
A 3 second cooldown would easily prevent spam. +1 for using the word asinine.
If they nerf super counter, then they should do something with the infinite combo chain bug that some characters haves like mui and ss4 gogeta.
Same combo twice or more shouldn't be possible.
Otherwise everyone will do infinite combo from your back, killing more the game and making it more boring.
which bug? you dont mean the normal combo reset?
Super counter wars look boring
Super counters should consume 1 bar of energy tbh
That would make them useless.
@eloniom5768 not a whole bar, but 1 of the sections of the energy bar, make them cost something like vanish does
@@GodKingJonald That would fix it.
Yea is annoying
Yes let’s nerf the small timing window in lag mechanic that gets you out of combos and is the one way to stop you from being turned into a pinball without ki(made it easier to escape with increased ki drain per vanish). Next let’s nerf blocking
To be fair, the defensive mechanics are very strong in this game
It's not _just_ super counter, but with all the defensive mechanics you have, plus super counter, it's very difficult to get any reward out of agressing your opponent
@ That’s why you stagger your hits and mix up different trips, stuns, and resets. Holding perception? Dash around it or shoot ki blasts until they decide to drop the button and fight. Only thing that really needs a nerf is laddering and regen. Can never catch people who ladder because tracking is so off.
@@blueblob8630 That's not what I meant, but go off
@ it was satirical like yours
Furst