The Contrarians Dokken is Burning: The Rise and Fall of an L.A. Metal Band
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- Опубликовано: 15 сен 2024
- The crew have a discussion all about the band Dokken! They list their top songs and pick between George and Don!
The Contrarians is a show where one of us jumps in the hot seat picks a dark horse album from a band as that band's best album. The guest host will argue against them with facts, stats and all around truth, subjective and objective!
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What are your thoughts on Dokken? What are your top songs?
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George Lynch is and will be regarded as one of the best rock guitarist of all time. His tones and solos on Back for the Attack are some of the best ever recorded. The first Lynch Mob record also.
Agreed. The tone on BFTA is incredible. It’s my second favourite album of all time due to his playing. So disappointing to hear the thin, no-sustain tone he plays with now.
"Without Warning" intro, then into "Tooth And Nail" is really great. George Lynch's solo on the song "Tooth And Nail" is one of my all-time favorites. So well done, and sounds so good.
I jumped out of my chair like watching a full court shot made when I heard night by night. Night by night is one of the most underrated glam songs ever. George’s intro into that song easily falls under one of the top 5 intros of all hair metal intros. I’ve finally found someone else that has shown its well deserved appreciation. Don’t let me under shadow the rest of the song with the praising of the intro. The song shows George’s ability to drop back stage into a blending rhythm as the background voices sing night by night to build a pre-bridge to the chorus. But even right after the intro Don brings excitement to the song while synchronized with a simple but very fitting drum beat backing him. All followed by the bridge and solo bringing a forceful power with Don and the band joining vocals. Last but not least George always brings it come solo time.
I personally pick George to be the better talent. His guitar is one of a kind.
The only good song on Dons first solo album was the track Mirror Mirror. I found the rest of the album to be as exciting as a bottle of melatonin. As only one or two pills put me to sleep. Everyone of my friends loved the first Lynch Mob album. It is also way underrated itself.
Anyhow, that’s how I lived it.
Love the riff on Seven Thunders.
TOP 5 for DOKKEN I.M.O.
1.THE HUNTER
2.JUST GOT LUCKY
3.TOOTH -NAIL
4.IN MY DREAMS
5.UNCHAIN THE NIGHT
SEEN EM ALOT IN THE 80S GREAT LIVE ,BUT LOST INTEREST AFTER U.L.A.KEY,
My Top 5:
1: Paris Is Burning
2:Alone Again
3:Unchain The Night
4: Into The Fire
5: Kiss of Death
Honorable mentions:
Lighting Strikes Again
Till The Livin' End
Walk Away
Lost Behind The Wall
Cry of the Gypsy
Heaven Sent
Dream Warriors
Turn on The Action
When Heaven Comes Down
Back For The Attack...
George Lynch is the reason why I ever took guitar seriously. Of all the cool guitarists I was listening to of that era, Lynch stood out to me the most. There's a lot to appreciate about his playing, he wasn't over the top technical for his 80's, early 90's run (his most influential pieces of music from Dokken and Lynch Mob) but the one thing most of those players didn't have is his how much of his prowess and attitude is inflected when he played guitar... It was more than his tone, the vibrato, trills, legato, sporadic tapping, semitone slidings...it was his how much attitude is inflected in doing all those things... It is very unique that only he can do... You can try your best to be a George Lynch clone.... but you won't come close to the man during his prime...
If you want to understand a lot more about why they weren't exactly best buds, you should read chapter 5 of "Nöthin' But a Good Time: The Uncensored History of the '80s Hard Rock Explosion"
by Richard Bienstock, Tom Beaujour, (Foreword by Corey Taylor).
Pretty much explains everything.
My top 5 Dokken songs:
1. Paris Is Burning
2. Tooth and Nail
3. Alone Again
4. Just Got Lucky
5. When Heaven Comes Down
"Bang your head:the rise and fall of Heavy Metal" is also a good reference.
If you look up the tour history of dokken, they were always the bridesmaid, never the bride. Almost always the opener, or 2nd billing. By the mid to late 80s a lot of new bands came out and dokken was opening for them A lot of copycat lyrics and riffs. The "let's just do what everyone else is doing and we'll get signed" attitude in the early 80s. It worked, but, that's why they now live hand to mouth and their catalog of music is worthless. Pilson was a good bass player and vocalist though. But...Who needs Grammys?
Agree with Jaime on the production on “Under Lock and Key”. I had it on cassette first and I loved the drum sound. Own it on vinyl and cd also. My favorite Dokken is “Back For the Attack”. Favorite songs
1. Kiss of Death
2. It’s Not Love
3. Into the Fire
4. Heaven Sent
5. Breaking the Chains
Up From the Ashes is killer album . The Lost songs album is nice compilation of pre Breaking the chains.
Was reading the Comments and didnt see "Just Got Lucky" a fantastic song and the 1st Video I watched and was hooked and still am for that OG lineup of Dokken .
This is a great topic for a Dokken fanatic like myself so kudos for the post everyone had some good insights and I respect everyone's opinions however I'll never understand a person saying they heard Don Dokken's voice for the first time and didn't like it WTAF? Don is easily one of my top 5 favorite singers of any genre my nickname for him is "the air-conditioning of hard rock" and of course Jeff, Mic and George are amazing players with a ton of style especially Lynch. Making a top 5 Dokken songs list is incredibly difficult for me but as of right now I'll say
5. Breaking The Chains
4. The Hunter
3. Burning Like A Flame
2. In My Dreams
1. It's Not Love
God that was tough 🤦🤘
Good show! For those of you who like Dokken music, but with more muscle and grit, try Lynch Mob's updated take on several Dokken classics on the 2003 album REvolution.
Been rokken with Dokken since '85! My fave band! 🤘
Great topic and discussion! A lot of strong points made by the entire panel here!
1. Unchain the Night
2. Breaking the Chains
3. The Hunter
4. Mr. Scary
5. Don't Close Your Eyes
Thanks guys!
Great band live back in the day! My top 5 :
Kiss Of Death
Tooth And Nail
Too High To Fly
It's Not Love
Dream Warriors
My Top 5:
Kiss Of Death
Into The Fire
Breaking The Chains
Dream Warriors
When Heaven Comes Down
Erase the Slate is a Dark Dokken record . I like it mostly for Reb Beaches Amazing Guitar work Dons voice was starting to decline but he still had his Voice under control but yeah it's a darker Dokken Album for sure .
Dokken's live album is together with Wasp's Live in the raw and Judas priests 1986 live album, the best live album ever.
Top Dokken songs.
1. Burning like a flame
2. The Hunter
3. Just got Lucky
4. Tooth and Nail
5. Kiss of death/Into the fire
My favorites are The Hunter, It's Not Love, In My Dreams, and Crazy Mary. Love hearing Mick sing on Crazy Mary and also an acoustic version of Tooth and Nail. I have a great memory of them playing the Keystone in Palo Alto, CA. in 1984. Small club, great show.
Don’s whole vibe is a R&B voice over hard rock… sexy and brilliant.
George Lynch what a guitar player. Superb band.Burning like a flame being my favourite song by them.
1 Kiss of death. 2 So many tears. 3 Walk away. 4 Don't lie to me. 5 Alone again.
It’s Not Love is a super song I can listen to over and over
It's like Jamie is in my head. Lol i also have the VHS and often quote Mick Brown. Lol
My top 5 are a bit different though.
5. You just got lucky
4. Mr Scary
3. The Hunter
2. In My Dreams
1. It's Not Love
I was in a band in high school and the closest bigger town had a huge spring break and we wanted to use a flatbed and cruise just like they did in the video. Epic
Let's not forget neither that George fought Freddy Kruger in the 80s so he could take Don in a box match for sure
Don't know where Reed got his info. The Band where under a four-way spilt. The Up From the Ashes album was always meant to be a DOKKEN album, but the other band members sued Don for the DOKKEN name. Thus, he had to release it as DON DOKKEN. George Lynch talked the other guys into Replacing Don with a new lead singer. Thus, the initial breakup was on.
Timmy D may have been wrong with his “no drums” comment on a recent Contrarians Yes video, but I agree with his Dokken assessment: my fave album is Dysfunctional as well! I got into Dokken with the Tooth and Nail album & l split when l heard Shadowlife. Since l worked in record stores, l heard most of the post-$h!tlife elpees and the platter that I thought the most of was Erase the Slate.
Harmony and backing vocals are important in a band’s sound to me. Pilson and Brown were great, in that regard. Donny D blew his voice out awhile ago, but Jeffy P’s still got it and never lost it. They were an excellent band, but acrimony, money, drugs & booze, ego and clashing personalities tore them asunder. Plus, those evil, whispering sycophantic voices saying, “You’re the best. The band is nothing without you,” type of nonsense.
Top Five Dave Dokken Fave Flave Raves:
5. Unchain the Night
4. Prisoner
3. Into the Fire 🔥
2. The Maze
1. Kiss of Death ☠️
Keep up the groovilicious, nutritious and delicious work, dudes!
Cheers from Noo Yawk, ova heyah!
~8^ )
Disappointed in the lack of love for Lynch Mob. I’m definitely a George guy.
Agreed. Lynch Mob’s self titled album with Robert Mason is one of my favorites
Good band dokken where sort of got lumped in the hair metal thing which I wouldn't say they where
Fav songs
Night by night (luv the solo)
Into the fire
Lighting strikes
Kiss of death
Just got lucky
Jamie - yeah, I have that on DVD. I still watch it every now and again.
Agree about the solo on Night by Night. Just mind blowing in its composition. I couldn't pick a top 5 but Tooth and Nail is the most consistent and heavy album. Under Lock and Key has the real classic Dokken tunes and BFTA has insane guitar. All great albums and a key part of my musical education.
1 without warning/Tooth and nail 2.Breaking the Chains 3.Into the Fire 4.Mr Scary 5.Paris is Burning
1. Unchain the Night
2. Dream Warriors
3. In My Dreams
4. Into the Fire
5. Without Warning/Tooth and Nail
Never was a fan of Dokken, never will be but here I am listening to the Contrarians talk about Dokken… go figure. Haven’t missed a single RUclips Contrarian episode.
I love the first 4 Dokken albums (+ Erase...) but George Lynch's work starting with Lynch Mob (first 2 + last 2), KXM & Lynch Pilson wipes the floor with anything Don has done since his solo album. I also agree that Pilson's voice is far superior to Don's.
Can't believe only one person mentioned Kiss of death
Whack on 'Under Lock And Key' .. crank it to eleventeen and tell me you're not feelin' it 😲
love dysfunctional too
I'm going to cheat and list my ten favorite songs in no particular order: It's Not Love, Breaking the Chains, Just Got Lucky, Paris is Burning, Alone Again, Dream Warriors, In My Dreams, Lightning Strikes Again, The Hunter, and Into the Fire. That would be the ultimate greatest hits album. THE FEUD: Don Dokken - It isn't Dokken without Don Dokken. If George Lynch was so unhappy that he could no longer work with Don in Dokken, I agree that he should have left the band. If he thought he could do better, he should have tried. None of his later projects eclipsed Dokken. That says all there is to say in my mind. I think George should have moved on gracefully rather than being a sour grapes crybaby about the whole deal. As a fan, I wish the legal issues had been dealt with under some sort of non-disclosure mediation that would have prevented all of the dirty laundry being aired at the expense of the band's legacy. --- Thanks for the show, guys!
Dawn, your top ten includes my entire top five. The other five are all outstanding, as well. For the record, in no order, Breaking the Chains, Alone Again, In My Dreams, It's Not Love, Dream Warriors. Kind of a boring, cliched list, but I really love those songs. I may have suggested this topic, but you fine tuned it and gave it focus. That's why my comments are under yours. Reed had it right when he gave you credit. All that said, I am going against the tide and picking Lynch over Dokken in the showdown. I've not listened to everything by either, but Don's voice is shot and George can play better than ever. That's the advantage of an instrumentalist over a vocalist. I am actually a bigger fan of singers than players, so I am even going against my own norm here. I wish both Dawn and myself could have been there, but you guys did a fine job. I enjoyed it and now I want to listen to those first four albums.
@@billschuster6680 I like the popular songs, too. Sometimes the hits are hits for a good reason. I chose Don in the feud because George always seems so bitter in a petty way. I do agree Don's voice is gone, embarrassingly so. But the feud for me was about how they handled themselves over the break-up. George can still play his guitar which should provide some solace for him even if his name will ALWAYS be associated with Dokken. That probably makes him even angrier. He cannot separate his success from Don Dokken and actually should probably thank him for it.
@@dawnthechaldean5377 I'm sticking with George, but I don't dispute your points. Frankly, none of them have ever really matched those early Dokken albums.
Dysfunctional and Shadowlife are great! I don’t get the hate. The first two Lynch Mob albums are KILLER!! Up From The Ashes is also Killer.
Dokken is fucking great. No matter what they wore. Lynch is one of best guitarists ever. He’s a notch under Eddie Van Halen & some thought he was just as good
1 - Kiss of Death
2 - Standing in the Shadows
3 - Unchain the Night
4 - Tooth and Nail
5 - Into the Fire
Top 5 Songs
Kiss of Death
Too High to Fly
Tooth & Nail
Burning Like a Flame
I Can't See You Anymore
In a fight George Over all Don
I've been a fan of both Don and George all along, but the Dokken albums after Slate don't do much for me. Post breakup, I'm a much bigger fan of George, with his one notable dud being Smoke This. Don even went as far to hire a Lynch clone after Norum. I came in with Under Lock & Key, and that is still my favorite. As a guitarist myself, Lynch is my guy.
you guys should do a show on how billy squiers career crashed and burned after his rock me tonite video. such an interesting story he went from one of biggest rock stars on the planet and literally fell off the face of the earth overnight
We did do a show on Billy Squire!
@@thecontrarians2438 missed that one. going to look it up now.i just discovered your channel about a month ago you do a great job
Love Dokken!!
Erase the Slate is a monster album.
I apologize for not catching your names but to the fella that went first... if you haven't heard erase the slate do yourself a favor pick it up k. Its great! Also there's a reason way shodowlife is neatly unlistenable....GL himself admitted to using the creative control he was given on that record ( At his own insistence under threat of walking on the project....as the label at the time wouldn't release an album w/o GL) to " end dokken " he admitted as much in a 2010 podcast. He was also let go but all the original. Members of the band before the tour promoting the record or maybe in the middle of it for no showing some promotion gigs with radios stations and showing up drugged up for others and being combative.
I remember seeing Dokken on the Monsters of Rock tour. I was there for Metallica, Van Halen and Scorpions. They were okay but man having to come on after Metallica. Not too good. George Lynch was awesome. I was not really into hair/ glam metal. Way over in the thrash camp. Metallica was awesome however Scorpions really stole the show. Van Halen was Van Halen.
@Jamie Lazlo Not that Kevin Smith here again but I love you're posters
Back for the attack all the way
I agree, albums number two, three, and four are all exceptional. The "Breaking the Chains" album is good, but it is simply undercooked. The way this band could go from melodic to heavy as hell is just brilliant. It's too bad they couldn't keep the momentum going to make another album after "Back for the Attack." As far as the rest of the catalog, you could probably cherry pick songs from all of those albums and create a fantastic album or two.
"Shadowlife" is horrible. I remember getting to hear some of it, and was like NOPE. I also remember reading somewhere that George Lynch admitted that he intentionally sabotaged that album because he wanted to get away from Dokken by killing the reunion's momentum. I don't know how true that is though.
In my humble opinion the album which really set Dokken to success was Tooth and Nail, in my opinion their best album, Breaking the Chains was somehow weak
Team Don all day...Bro George should call up Don and thank him for everything over the years. Don wrote all the Hits gave him and the whole band equal share and for being a good dude, He got repayed with a Roid Rage G Lynch going out of his way to be difficult, Don even had to kiss his ass to play on in my dreams......🤟✌️
Don't count Dokken out! They will rise once again!!
The last dude does not know what he’s talking about. lol
Dokken had a string of 4 excellent album run that Motley Crue, Winger, Ratt, Def Leppard or a lot of the other bands of the time haven't.
Top Songs-Tooth & Nail, Turn on the Action, Lightnin' Strikes Again, Kiss of Death & Mr. Scary. Put one check for Lynch over Mr Dokken.
Oh man..
This is going to be great 🤤.
Shadow life is rad…. Broken Bones is killer. Heaven sent is my favorite song.
Into The Fire
Breaking the Chains
Tooth and Nail
Its Not Love
Unchain the Night
I give George the edge over Don
the best of Dokken are the first 4 albums
i never considered Dokken a glam metal band, to me the glam metal bands for the most part didnt have the riffs. bands that had riffs were just metal bands to me, even if they did have hair and make up done. that said i never cared for Dokken mostly because Dons voice never really did it for me, Dokken has 3 or 4 songs i really like and have zero interest in any of their other stuff. i was a thrash metal guy, the one band i really liked in that vein was RATT, i effing LOVE RATT.
Don is actually a really good guitarist himself, i never understood why Dokken didnt utilize the badass double guitar attack.
Knock, knock ...
whose there?
@@thecontrarians2438 I don't know for sure who was at Nick's door, interrupting cow perhaps, but it was an interesting and funny moment of another great Contrarians broadcast. Thanks for another fun discussion!
1) Paris is Burning is a melodic song? Creditably blown. Video stopped. 2) George over Don 7 days a week and twice on Sunday. Have you seen George play in 2022? Have you heard Don "sing" in 2022? That said: they both needed each other, and they both made each one better.
Never join a band that is named after one of the band members!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It must have caused complications.
Like Van Halen?
Some good songs but i was never fan of Dokken
Doing a show about dokken..and not knowing there an LA band...is not good...????🤔🤔🤔🤭🤭