in Ableton, you can also add some small variations in volume for each note by using the Velocity Midi Effect. And shuffle notes a little bit in time using the Groove Pool, or the Pitch & Time Utilities Tab in the Clip View. and, if you can, Play the Notes and record. and don't quantize or copy/paste
@@xj_will Oh dear! I need to subscribe to your channel now! Roli Seaboard has not bad strings sound, lots of possibilities with Kontakt by Native Instruments but I never knew how to make it sound more realistic.
THe only fallacy here xJ is that you left the horns in mono field. Stereo and millisecond delay between the players (introduces microswing bka humanization, slow attack, middle-level sustain, and finally a 5000 msec (5 sec) tail release (ADSR plugin you can pass it through)/long release.
I wonder if you wouldn't mind expanding on your process more, especially on running through an ADSR plugin. Are you saying following the horn plugin with something like Serum and it will be able to influence those parameters, or are you talking about the in-built ADSR of the plugin? Also, would you be doing the micro delay at the piano roll or is there a more effecient approach?
@@badacerecords "Expounding" is a better word actually. =) Find a VST f-x plugin that is like a "filter" plugin sotospeak but doesn't alter the signal coming through it by default, but it would have Attack, Delay, Sustain, and Release knobs/sliders on that plugin. Capisce? The microdelay comes from a harmony plugin (Nectar 2, 3, 4 e.g.) and just look that one voice is playing at 2msec delay in the pan far left eg. and then 1m/7feet away, move the second harmony on the field with a 3msec delay (3 minus 2 as an eg) - just keep the virtual players with considerable distance and only 1 - 2 msec's apart to bring "offbeat yet on beat" harmonization melody to the horn playing.
Sweet! For me, using modelled horns rather than sampled ones (or a combination) tends to yield much better results, especially with regards to dynamics, legato and re-tonguing.
Important video, thanks. Back in the days, when I was needed to deal with this articulations and phrases in most kontakt libraries there wasn't videos like this.
The background music you put over the parts you speak makes it really hard to focus on the actual music you're making. My ears need some time to clear up.
@@xj_willI think it’s most professional as you’re already doing it. I don’t agree that bare editing is the way to go. Bare editing would 100% come off as less engaging and more amateur. The current editing is NOT distracting. That’s not an opinion, it’s fact because they never occur at the same time. You’re doing it right already.
I am getting into composing more original and acoustic-oriented music lately, and brass was very difficult for me to make use of. I couldn't make it sound realistic. I'll be trying out your video's tips, thank you! Also, your background is excellent looking. 👍
Thank you! Was literally mixing horn samples today. Already messing with layering and eq, but the I’ve got to try those sound toys plugins you’re using
@@xj_will absolutely! I did get your songs cupajoe & text feed which I love-still exploring, and learning from your other songs… I did hit up music supervisors on LinkedIn, and I did explain that I don’t have any like “royalty free samples” & I own all the rights to my music make them feel at ease, but I think they’re still kind of scary about working with me directly 😆. Ha ha so… idk. I’m gonna hit them up today with a follow up and ask them if they can please direct me to the music library that they work with. Hopefully that works… Wish me luck! 😂😂😂🙏🏾♥️☘️
Sounds better, but. If initially the sound is more similar not to real trombones, saxophones, but to some kind of accordion, it will not be saved by equalizer. And by the way. If in the brass section initially the sound is computerized, not natural, and even more so when it looks like synthesized, then often raising the ultra high frequencies even more emphasizes it is not natural. For this reason, for example, for a more convincing sound I add to this library other libraries. The sounds in Falcon are especially good. It has some libraries that sound much cooler than the Kontakt libraries. This library (which you are using) in this situation is given off by the attack of the notes. When playing fast parts, the sound between the notes is immediately artificial. For this reason, I periodically tweak other articulations of the same library and others in some places. Then a slightly more convincing sound can be achieved.
All He did here was put more then one note playing at the same time. Ofcourse horns sound trash if its just one note just like playing piano with one note is trash.
@@HOLLASOUNDS I've been writing arrangements for a little over 30 years. Therefore, it is enough for me to hear even one note of the performance to understand how the instrument will sound. If 1 note sounds unconvincing, then 5 will sound like 5 unconvincing notes. You need to work so that 1 note sounds as natural as possible, and then 5 or more notes will sound cool. As I wrote earlier, I know this library and I know how it sounds. Therefore, for convincing a lot of notes played at the same time will not save the sound. It is necessary to add other libraries. Well, and moreover, to process the sound a little differently, which would be on the contrary to hide what gives the cheapness of the sound, and not to emphasise it.
@@istominmusic All true however I'm talking about the arrangement and number of keys or notes hitting at the same time, playing one key with no chords is obviously going to sound weak and that aspect of this video where He compered the original single note trumpet vs chords well obviously its going to sound way better, same as play chords on a piano. That aspect of the video was basically irrelevant, eveyone should know that playing one line of notes with no chords is going to sound trash. For Me I don't need to do anything in this video, dubbing or tripling from a single midi note is literally a cupple of clicks. No sample instrument will ever sound the same as the real thing but in RnB, Hiphop, DnB it doesn't have to sound 100% realistic.
Try this with brass sections that have more dynamic than just staccato hits. Hell, try it with trumpet solos (trombone, sax). Brass is one of the hardest things to sound realistic, even with professional multisamples big libraries. In fact, I never heard a realistic example.
Most of the orchestra music on movies and Television is made using a DAW and software samplers. Should note that the turm digital refers to digital hardware, because software is just software it's not called digital.
I would request that you go over what it means to use key switches with detailed examples ....this video seems to assume that the viewer already understands exactly how key switches influences the sound. Thank you.
Interesting. Personnaly I think the firts important step, before layering and articulation is to play them. Yes play, with you fingers 😱, and not put the notes on the grid with the mouse. After that you'll do the essential cooking. It's true for the brass but also for woodwinds, strings and so on. Play things and use qantization only when you have to.
You did an another notes for keyswitching on vintage horns 2? Or its only happening for Session horns, and all of them are controlled by single midi channel? And really interesting how you separated sections
Just discovered the channel and love it. Was wondering what song is playing in the background around 4min… one of yours? If so, could you let me know what it’s called? Thanks man!
Can you please list the software/tools used here. And is Ableton better than FL Studios? I've dabbled in FL Studios for a decade, and know the gist but not all of it, but if Ableton is easier/faster to get things done, I'd go with it.
is there any good free sax? i have good brass for everything else but no sax. anything that works free in kontakt player or decent sampler or anything like that?
This sounds incredibly synthetic for a number of reasons. The main one being stiff quantization. The algorithm brought me this video and this is the first time watching this RUclips creator. Normally, I would not comment on a video like this, but the extreme level of confidence displayed throughout led me to think that this would be a much better and product. As someone who has been horn obsessed for 10 years longer than the video creator, this is very disappointing. Comparing a single horn to a unison horn section is misleading/disingenuous. They are two different things. It would be even more misleading if that single horn was from vintage horns, which is the least flexible of the three libraries used here SMH. Did everybody catch how the end result was compared to the single horn line, instead of the Bruno Mars section lick? If they were played back to back, this demonstration would not fool a lot of people.. That being said, Only when you can make a single horn sound great, can you begin to approach making a horn section sing. If this video was titled, “ The absolute basics of horn section programming, for complete beginners” Part 1, I might not have even bothered to write a comment. Then again,, a beginner should not be expected to have multiple libraries to stack and layer. Also the library glory days, costs $600 and never goes on sale. There is a strange contradiction here. On the one hand, the video presents information that only would be valuable to complete beginners. On the other hand, the video creator is using libraries and techniques, that would reasonably be considered out of reach/scope for a beginner. I will stop here.
The reason we chose this unison line is because it’s the most recognizable riff by most modern players and producers today. The video also isn’t called “how to save money to make horns sound realistic” too long for the algo 😂 sides it’ll cost ya $600+ for a decent horn section to actually show up to record for an hour or two. This is also extremely way more practical for beginners. And we added saxophones and trombones to the tracks to match for authenticity 👍🏾 we also just compared where the stock sound is vs the tlc of what we did in 5 min… thanks for the feedback we’ll keep that in mind for the next vid. These techniques work for me and are not the end all be all only way to process horns. Never said this was the best or only way. Just for how I do it, in a practical sense for sync licensing and as a bedroom producer.
No human plays horns the same way twice.. therefore layering? Pretty sure no human can play 2 horns at once. Layering is great, but the reasoning here seems off lol
@@xj_willwhat i was about to say. Grace notes, swells, growls, rips, whines and the pitch bends. Oof. I use them to actually add MORE life to other libraries that i use for sustains and staccatos. Just gotta take out their reverbs and delays. Except for Motown presets, those are surprisingly good even in 2024
Not everyone can play real brass instruments not everyone has a trumpet and not everyone has the budget to hire session musicians and that is just the way it is.
in Ableton, you can also add some small variations in volume for each note by using the Velocity Midi Effect. And shuffle notes a little bit in time using the Groove Pool, or the Pitch & Time Utilities Tab in the Clip View. and, if you can, Play the Notes and record. and don't quantize or copy/paste
YES! finally a good tutorial on horns, please do one for strings as well!
Bet!
@@xj_will Oh dear! I need to subscribe to your channel now! Roli Seaboard has not bad strings sound, lots of possibilities with Kontakt by Native Instruments but I never knew how to make it sound more realistic.
Nice!
THe only fallacy here xJ is that you left the horns in mono field. Stereo and millisecond delay between the players (introduces microswing bka humanization, slow attack, middle-level sustain, and finally a 5000 msec (5 sec) tail release (ADSR plugin you can pass it through)/long release.
Noizzze I gotta try that
I wonder if you wouldn't mind expanding on your process more, especially on running through an ADSR plugin. Are you saying following the horn plugin with something like Serum and it will be able to influence those parameters, or are you talking about the in-built ADSR of the plugin? Also, would you be doing the micro delay at the piano roll or is there a more effecient approach?
@@badacerecords "Expounding" is a better word actually. =) Find a VST f-x plugin that is like a "filter" plugin sotospeak but doesn't alter the signal coming through it by default, but it would have Attack, Delay, Sustain, and Release knobs/sliders on that plugin. Capisce? The microdelay comes from a harmony plugin (Nectar 2, 3, 4 e.g.) and just look that one voice is playing at 2msec delay in the pan far left eg. and then 1m/7feet away, move the second harmony on the field with a 3msec delay (3 minus 2 as an eg) - just keep the virtual players with considerable distance and only 1 - 2 msec's apart to bring "offbeat yet on beat" harmonization melody to the horn playing.
I do this for anything I want to sound ‘human’
@@Jala_harusame, just make everything different from one another in some ways
xJ-Will. I actually enjoyed this video because you actually showed us (noobies) what to do (and not do). You didn't just talk about it! Thank you!
Awesome job! Another addition to this method is adding dynamic filtering.
Sweet! For me, using modelled horns rather than sampled ones (or a combination) tends to yield much better results, especially with regards to dynamics, legato and re-tonguing.
wow this wasn't only a crazy good tutorial, but its also really good edited! i loved it man
Important video, thanks. Back in the days, when I was needed to deal with this articulations and phrases in most kontakt libraries there wasn't videos like this.
The background music you put over the parts you speak makes it really hard to focus on the actual music you're making. My ears need some time to clear up.
We had the editor stop when the actual tracks were being played. We’ll just keep it bare next time 👍🏾
@@xj_will It's fine to me... As long as the BGM isn't playing at the same time as the daw output (as your editor already is doing) it's fine.
@@xj_willI think it’s most professional as you’re already doing it. I don’t agree that bare editing is the way to go. Bare editing would 100% come off as less engaging and more amateur. The current editing is NOT distracting. That’s not an opinion, it’s fact because they never occur at the same time. You’re doing it right already.
@@xj_willuse lo-fi. Cut out mids and highs.
@@xj_willit really annoyed me man 😭👉🏻👈🏻
You’ve got skills - this is not easy to get right. Great video!
Thanks fam
This is going to take some time but great stuff thanks
I am getting into composing more original and acoustic-oriented music lately, and brass was very difficult for me to make use of. I couldn't make it sound realistic. I'll be trying out your video's tips, thank you! Also, your background is excellent looking. 👍
Thank you! Was literally mixing horn samples today. Already messing with layering and eq, but the I’ve got to try those sound toys plugins you’re using
Take a bow my friend! Thats was superb. 🎉🎉🎉
Thanks a bunch! Speed running tuts are actually kinda fun to make.
Great video, if you see a classic RnB band with a horn section live, you know the great dynamic sonic feast that is the horn section.
Yeah that was fire definitely using these ideas to make that horn section live band like
This is great information. Thanks!
Thank you! I was just researching how to do this when your video popped up! Excellent info! 🙏🏾♥️😘
AYYYEEE perfect timing lol
@@xj_will absolutely! I did get your songs cupajoe & text feed which I love-still exploring, and learning from your other songs… I did hit up music supervisors on LinkedIn, and I did explain that I don’t have any like “royalty free samples” & I own all the rights to my music make them feel at ease, but I think they’re still kind of scary about working with me directly 😆. Ha ha so… idk. I’m gonna hit them up today with a follow up and ask them if they can please direct me to the music library that they work with. Hopefully that works… Wish me luck! 😂😂😂🙏🏾♥️☘️
You smashed this bruh! These horns might take my gigs 😂😂😂
Never! They can’t do the awesome stuff you can do fam especially on command In a split second!
I found a Reason stock preset Combinator horns perfect basically have been using the same patch for over 10 years, sounds good.
Sounds better, but. If initially the sound is more similar not to real trombones, saxophones, but to some kind of accordion, it will not be saved by equalizer. And by the way. If in the brass section initially the sound is computerized, not natural, and even more so when it looks like synthesized, then often raising the ultra high frequencies even more emphasizes it is not natural.
For this reason, for example, for a more convincing sound I add to this library other libraries. The sounds in Falcon are especially good. It has some libraries that sound much cooler than the Kontakt libraries.
This library (which you are using) in this situation is given off by the attack of the notes. When playing fast parts, the sound between the notes is immediately artificial. For this reason, I periodically tweak other articulations of the same library and others in some places. Then a slightly more convincing sound can be achieved.
All He did here was put more then one note playing at the same time. Ofcourse horns sound trash if its just one note just like playing piano with one note is trash.
@@HOLLASOUNDS I've been writing arrangements for a little over 30 years. Therefore, it is enough for me to hear even one note of the performance to understand how the instrument will sound. If 1 note sounds unconvincing, then 5 will sound like 5 unconvincing notes. You need to work so that 1 note sounds as natural as possible, and then 5 or more notes will sound cool. As I wrote earlier, I know this library and I know how it sounds. Therefore, for convincing a lot of notes played at the same time will not save the sound. It is necessary to add other libraries. Well, and moreover, to process the sound a little differently, which would be on the contrary to hide what gives the cheapness of the sound, and not to emphasise it.
@@istominmusic All true however I'm talking about the arrangement and number of keys or notes hitting at the same time, playing one key with no chords is obviously going to sound weak and that aspect of this video where He compered the original single note trumpet vs chords well obviously its going to sound way better, same as play chords on a piano. That aspect of the video was basically irrelevant, eveyone should know that playing one line of notes with no chords is going to sound trash. For Me I don't need to do anything in this video, dubbing or tripling from a single midi note is literally a cupple of clicks. No sample instrument will ever sound the same as the real thing but in RnB, Hiphop, DnB it doesn't have to sound 100% realistic.
@@HOLLASOUNDS Yes. But I was originally referring to the processing of that sound. It sounds like an accordion, not a brass section.
@@istominmusic Right
Try this with brass sections that have more dynamic than just staccato hits. Hell, try it with trumpet solos (trombone, sax). Brass is one of the hardest things to sound realistic, even with professional multisamples big libraries. In fact, I never heard a realistic example.
This is cool. I always wanted to know if you could make orcheastrated music digitally?
Most of the orchestra music on movies and Television is made using a DAW and software samplers. Should note that the turm digital refers to digital hardware, because software is just software it's not called digital.
@@HOLLASOUNDS no duh.
@@pcprobot Ahh yer Duh
@@HOLLASOUNDS how do you use a violin with a DAW?
Great tips dude! Awesome video.
I would request that you go over what it means to use key switches with detailed examples ....this video seems to assume that the viewer already understands exactly how key switches influences the sound. Thank you.
You, sir, are the best youtuber in the entirety of existence. Thank you so much 🙏
We appreciate, the excellent tutorial!! Do you mind sharing your horns template??
Interesting. Personnaly I think the firts important step, before layering and articulation is to play them. Yes play, with you fingers 😱, and not put the notes on the grid with the mouse.
After that you'll do the essential cooking. It's true for the brass but also for woodwinds, strings and so on.
Play things and use qantization only when you have to.
Exactly!!🙂
That was highly informative thanks for that tip King. 💯👍🏾
You did an another notes for keyswitching on vintage horns 2? Or its only happening for Session horns, and all of them are controlled by single midi channel?
And really interesting how you separated sections
Great! I am looking forward to trying this!
Platinum schooling. I appreciate it, thank you! x
Just discovered the channel and love it. Was wondering what song is playing in the background around 4min… one of yours? If so, could you let me know what it’s called? Thanks man!
Bruno Mars tune.
Can you please list the software/tools used here. And is Ableton better than FL Studios? I've dabbled in FL Studios for a decade, and know the gist but not all of it, but if Ableton is easier/faster to get things done, I'd go with it.
is there any good free sax? i have good brass for everything else but no sax. anything that works free in kontakt player or decent sampler or anything like that?
Rotary by orchestral tools. They consider it a big band horn section. It comes with its own sample player and it’s free.
I think there is actually a free tenor saxophone for Decent Sampler. I think the free
Syne Player also has a saxophone sound.
@dw543 sweet I'll check it out, thanks
@@LittleRichard1988 ok bet, haven't heard of that one imma look it up, thanks
Real! ))) Nice !)) Thanks and GOD blesss !
That was pretty good LOL!
I used First call horns, it's the real deal :).
Why did I just find first call like 2 days after I published this lmbo
@@xj_will LOL !!
Mad respect!
Wow, that was brilliant! Thanks
There a 2 types of Instruments that have to sound real: Strings and Brass! Cool Video!
Guitars too!
@@xj_will Oh...yes!!!
Great tutorial
glad it helps!
Great video! Thankyou 🙏
Handy tips. Thanks.
nice one bro
vid worth a million bucks
Very gooooood
Greatttt 🎉
Honestly, holy shit.
Good as shit
This sounds incredibly synthetic for a number of reasons. The main one being stiff quantization. The algorithm brought me this video and this is the first time watching this RUclips creator. Normally, I would not comment on a video like this, but the extreme level of confidence displayed throughout led me to think that this would be a much better and product. As someone who has been horn obsessed for 10 years longer than the video creator, this is very disappointing.
Comparing a single horn to a unison horn section is misleading/disingenuous. They are two different things. It would be even more misleading if that single horn was from vintage horns, which is the least flexible of the three libraries used here SMH. Did everybody catch how the end result was compared to the single horn line, instead of the Bruno Mars section lick? If they were played back to back, this demonstration would not fool a lot of people..
That being said, Only when you can make a single horn sound great, can you begin to approach making a horn section sing. If this video was titled, “ The absolute basics of horn section programming, for complete beginners” Part 1, I might not have even bothered to write a comment. Then again,, a beginner should not be expected to have multiple libraries to stack and layer. Also the library glory days, costs $600 and never goes on sale. There is a strange contradiction here. On the one hand, the video presents information that only would be valuable to complete beginners. On the other hand, the video creator is using libraries and techniques, that would
reasonably be considered out of reach/scope for a beginner. I will stop here.
The reason we chose this unison line is because it’s the most recognizable riff by most modern players and producers today. The video also isn’t called “how to save money to make horns sound realistic” too long for the algo 😂 sides it’ll cost ya $600+ for a decent horn section to actually show up to record for an hour or two. This is also extremely way more practical for beginners. And we added saxophones and trombones to the tracks to match for authenticity 👍🏾 we also just compared where the stock sound is vs the tlc of what we did in 5 min… thanks for the feedback we’ll keep that in mind for the next vid. These techniques work for me and are not the end all be all only way to process horns. Never said this was the best or only way. Just for how I do it, in a practical sense for sync licensing and as a bedroom producer.
I think you did a great job man, I will certainly be using that technique, sounds great to me, and not 'Incredibly synthetic'
@@xj_willyou did an excellent job. Ignore that negative comment
Please cut off background music Definitely appreciate but man background was so annoying
So much to learn, so little time… 😳🤯🤦🏾♀️
detune could help
We did that with microshift 👍🏾
Honestly.. Great tutorial!
But; maybe use me and my REAL life saxophones instead.
#gogeta this is gonna be epic
🔥
Also this video places too much emphasis on the speed of the information given at the expense of actually ensuring comprehension of the information.
Why not just hire session musicians and pay them for once?
Kinda expensive to get a brass section unless you're rich
@@muss4242 plenty of music students who just want to practice and will do it for peanuts. We aren’t talking Coltrane level jazz here
logic?
Vhorns
That’s too much money lowkey. I got lucky and bought kontakt while it was on sale
No human plays horns the same way twice.. therefore layering? Pretty sure no human can play 2 horns at once. Layering is great, but the reasoning here seems off lol
ruclips.net/video/HVGZxX7HC_I/видео.htmlsi=Q1CE2YMx3-hNTVwO
😂
You would have more then one person playing horns unlike a piano where all these chords can be played by one person.
Bro you know that in bands people that play different instruments within the group can have similar if not the same parts, right?
Sounding too realistic is also bad u might as just well hire a band To perform it because that’s what it’s gonna end up sounding like
it would cost too much... and take way too long...
step one: don't use session horns pro
😂
But their articulations are actually pretty good
@@xj_willwhat i was about to say. Grace notes, swells, growls, rips, whines and the pitch bends. Oof. I use them to actually add MORE life to other libraries that i use for sustains and staccatos.
Just gotta take out their reverbs and delays. Except for Motown presets, those are surprisingly good even in 2024
😂
SWAM by Audio Modeling is one of the best realistic horns plugin u can get, a reference used by latin producers 😉
it still does not sounds real 🤷♂
so what
Must be something wrong with your hearing.
orrrr stop using midi and actually play the parts lol
Long as it sounds realistic it doesn't matter lol
Not everyone can play real brass instruments not everyone has a trumpet and
not everyone has the budget to hire session musicians and that is just the way it is.
Another good tip is to add a layer that is NOT brass. Maybe a low volume plucky bass just to give it power.