Locomotive DERAILED by Small Device
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- Опубликовано: 17 окт 2024
- A small device led to this dramatic derailment in Brunswick, Georgia.
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I'm guessing more than one person got fired over this. NS proceeded down a track they didn't have permission to be on yet. CSX putting down a derail and didn't tell anyone. At least the derail did its job!
*At least the derail did its job*
one of the first forms of positive train control
@@25mfd I dunno... throwing it down a ditch might count as negative train control. 🤣
@@beeble2003
100% correct
this very scare, my cat sad
CSX MOW doesn't have to tell anyone that a portable derail has been applied on non-controlled track, as the train crew is governed by restricted speed...PERIOD. .
Guess the derailer did it's job
So…the story is: the derail did exactly what it was intended to do. It protected the MOW team.
well that's ONE part of the story...
another part of the story is... NS crew enters working limits of CSX m.o.w. WITHOUT permission
@@25mfdthe report cited NS did a no no so likely they'll cop the blame
@@JamesTK yea i would imagine they would... they literally have to cop to it... i've been running through scenarios in my mind about how a crew can run over a derail and be BLAMELESS... and as you can guess, i'm still trying
@@25mfdIf the crew were not informed - which is entirely possible regardless of regulations - then the blame shifts to whoever fucked up communications.
@@OutbackCatgirl
lets assume what you wrote is 100% CORRECT...
how do you explain away the fact that the crew did not observe the "movement at restricted speed" rule...
restricted speed
A speed that will permit stopping within one-half the range of vision. It will also permit stopping short of a train, a car, an obstruction, a stop signal, a derail, or an improperly lined switch. It must permit looking out for broken rail. It will not exceed 20 mph.
I love trains. A lot of people might not know this, but they were ones who created the first emergency hospital in the US. They basically built a small hospital in the middle of nowhere to help injured workers.
Thank you for this short video on this derailed Norfolk Southern GP38-2 and the cause of the derailment. (Posted 22 July 2024 at 1307 CDT.)
Thanks for watching!
Aye I live in Brunswick. I got to see #5349 derailed on its side.
Some insight, both CSX and NS work the ports and mills here. It all depends which train comes on which carrier. NS was going to work Logistec Port here that day.
That's interesting. I'm not too familiar with that area, so I appreciate the info.
It was absolutely wild to see it on its side in person. It was such a strange spot
@@v12productions No problem. I'm pretty sure I also works the opposite way in that where the products that are produced here might be sent down NS or CSX because its closer to the delivery destination
Here in Brunswick we also have an auto port named Colonel’s Island which has their own railroad with Genesee & Wyoming and interchanges with both NS and CSX base upon where the cars are going.
If I were the engineer on that NS train, I would've stopped the train and waited until my conductor got a response from CSX dispatch.
In this territory, a dispatch may or may not have this information given the territory’s operating authority. This seems to other than main track give the FRA’s assessment.
portable derails can be hard to see from the cab so he many not have even seen it
@@CRRPRR2102 i agree but the federally regulated rules cover this by the word ‘derail’ believe it or not. The only concession we got out of the contractors that were using these where I worked was that they would put up the usual red flag in the middle of the tracks in addition to the portable derail. The reflective devices on the derail itself become easily scuffed and degraded was our H&S argument.
@@kansascityshuffle8526
*In this territory, a dispatch may or may not have this information given the territory’s operating authority*
why wouldn't a dispatcher have that type of information if it's on his territory?
@@25mfd because it’s yard limits/non main track. Different rules apply to different territories. These different rules tell you what kind of authority you are working under and their particular requirements. You have to know what kind of authority you are working under.
So basically this was the result of people not communicating …
No. The train crew failed to stop within half the distance the track was seen to be clear.
what?
The derail actually worked? impressive.
The Red Derail @3:25 in the video is actually placed on wrong rail!! In this configuration, it will not derail anything, it will make a lot noise and probably be broken itself. It should be facing same direction,but on the inside of the opposite rail. That setup will roll the flange of the wheel over rail derailing the wheel. This is actually FRA violation for improper derail application. Just an Observation, until the FRA guy shows up!😊
You are absolutely correct, that derail is installed wrong.
"Restricted Speed" is always going to apply on a track like that. The crew were responsible for seeing- and stopping short of- any hazards.
yep
Yep! No "communication" from the MOW crew was/is needed...on non-controlled track. 100% the train crew's fault.
OOOO someone's head just rolled right out of a job.
or promoted
@@jonathanfriedel guaranteed NOBODY is getting promoted behind this
I would like to see a video on the CSX Locomotive that ran through the house in Niagara NY today
Just now looking into this. That's a wild story.
@@v12productions I know what are the odds?
Thomas Comes to Breakfast IRL?
wkbw news Buffalo had a video report. I'd post a ink but I don't think YT allows that?
Nice summary video, thanks!
B.S. on NS's attempt to even include MOW as a cause! In non-controlled track, ALL movements are to be made at restricted speed...PERIOD! Not to mention, that the installation of a portable derail is by FRA definition making the track "inaccessible."...and does not require any additional action. NS is just crying/whining, because it was their train crew that was TOTALLY responsible for this incident. And no, I don't work for either NS or CSX. It's just after 45 years of railroading (10 on the regulatory side)...I'm an expert on the regulations.
Thank you for a very interesting and informative video!
I was just thankful it wasn't a stolen derailer I read about recently. My late FIL was a Brakeman for G.T. Battle Creek. Great vid.
Nice video, the shot at 3:01 is great
It is a great shot. I think that's where Sylvan Road intersects Murphy Avenue and US 29 in Atlanta, just North of East Point.
@@frzstat thanks for the info
I'm saddened by your work on this video. Your videos are generally informative, more so for those that have no knowledge of the subject.
Saying the locomotive was running in reverse when long hood forward is poor wording.
If the control stand is built for long hood operation forward then short hood forward would be "reverse". Some locomotives have the control stand built for dual operation meaning both directions are forward.
Long story short I believe it should have been explained better. Locomotives are "different" when it comes to forward and reverse.
When an MOW crew occupies a live track, aren't they supposed to post something visible from a longer distance than a yellow derail, like a red flag, flare, torpedo, or flagger?
yes... typically they use yellow boards, yellow-red boards, red boards and green boards... these are used to warn crews of temporary track conditions... also, they use track bulletins, track warrants or general orders
@@25mfd - That's what I thought. I can't believe the engineer would have plowed into the derail if there had been some visual warning.
@@pacificostudios
yea he has some SERIOUS questions to answer
Someone who understands! Yes they are! They require a red flag or the track must be locked out. In Canada at least; since they are so hard to see, there isn't even a rule saying we have to stop or be on the lookout for portable derails. We look out and stop for red flags (which indicate track work) -not portable derails (which are only supposed to be used in conjunction with a flag) . I'm assuming they have similar rules in the states.
I havent seen torpedos since the 90's, but yes, on the UP we have to put a red flag at the derail and also another red flag 150 from the derail..
NS might be trying to make CSX seem like a chad with their spotted safety record
Hey there thanks for sharing the video. Can you make a video explaining why North American locomotives are single cab versus dual cabs in other parts of the world? You imply a cab forward may have prevented this accident
Is this Norfolk Southern locomotive going to be scrapped or rebuilt???
I have a video of Canadian Pacific ac44 c6m two of them running on Norfolk Southern lines which is my local main line.
The Trucks are still at the yard where it left from.
Im an NS Conductor. We passed this train the other day!
There at 3:07, rooftop water tower with built-in bend in its legs is a point of interest.
scottfw7169,
Stability! The support legs are attached to the tank bottom, then angle outward, then downward. This gives the legs a wider stance on the ground (roof) than if the legs went straight down from the tank, making the footing larger than the load.
In Oz we call them frogs .
Classic 😂 csx wrecking NS operation 😂😂
oh man, done in by the team
Interesting story. A case of not following rules and procedures for operations whether on your own or foreign road. The use of a radio does not absolve the crew of culpability. This reminds me of a wreck on the KCS that was caused by a crew calling on the radio, not getting a response, and caused a rear-end collision ending with the death of at least the engineer. A local train was working an area switching cars between 2 stations noted on orders. The crew finished switching in this town(station) and decided to go to a cafe to eat leaving the train on the main. At this time all trains were extras and issued orders for travel and it was common for a train crew to call ahead as they got close to a station to any train they were expecting to verify the location. On this day, the through train was slowed and the engineer called on the radio for the local, got no response, assumed the local had gone, released the brakes to recharge, and came around the curve to see the local's caboose through the abutments of an overhead bridge. Because the brakes were in recharge, the brake pipe had not had time to recharge to allow for even an emergency application. There were 3 or 4 units on the head end and they plowed into the caboose and cars of pulp wood destroying the caboose and the yard switcher that was in the consist wound up on top of a load of pulp wood on a bulkhead pulp wood car with the trucks down on the pulp wood sticks. I had met the engineer at a mutual friend's house. Needless to say, the operating rules were changed and tightened very quickly. This happened within the station yard limits. Both crews operated as they usually did, but on this day things did not work out as usual.
*At this time all trains were extras and issued orders for travel and it was common for a train crew to call ahead as they got close to a station to any train they were expecting to verify the location*
so exactly what year was this... sounds like the 60s or earlier
Amazing. Great reporting.
Some locomotives are set up with long hood forward. NS doesn't care which way the locomotive is facing, it pulls just as hard. The "F" is on the frame rail because the FRA wants it there.
It's there to designate the FRONT of the engine so there's no confusion as to where a repair needs to be made, and also no confusion as to whether they should move forward or reverse while switching. It's NOT just because the FRA says so...
@@ffjsbA bit of trivia. Back in the day Both the predecessor lines of the NS (Southern and Norfolk & Western) designated long hoods on GP and SD units as forward and ran them that way citing safety reasons. Both roads specified the short hood to be high. I recollect this started to change in the early 80's when EMD declared the short high hood at extra cost it was about this time the NS started designating the short hood as front. This of course, didn't apply to the F and E units run by the Southern.
@@jerryrollins512 Yes I know that.
@@jerryrollins512Still many old NS with 2 control stands in the cab. One for each direction.
@@ItsReallyJackBlack Yes, Most of the earlier hood units were equipped with two control stands. Remember them..
Big like 1,000!!! Great video!
ouch… Nice Video!
Thanks!
I love your videos so much
its going to rebuilt by the best locomotive shop in the world JUNATA !.
Good Work.
First.. but I gotta watch the rest..
As always, an Informative, easy to understand, and enjoyable video! Keep up the Great Work!
Thanks!
HA, SOON! I just saw UP 6052 at Altoona which you saw when it was derailed in April 2023!
didn't NS run their GP units long-hood by default? I remember hearing that, just don't know if it was true for all these units or just the high nose units back in the day.
I think it was Southern, before it was merged into NS.
It was NS predecessor Southern Railway that did that. NS still has one or two floating around.
They actually did that in response to losing a locomotive crew, Short Hood Lead into a Cement/Dump Truck. Those GP’s did not offer a lot of protection for the crew. So they converted many by moving engineer stand to the other side facing Long Hood.
So where was this locomotive taken to for repairs?
So who pays to fix the unit in this situation?
Norfolk Southern,they are accustomed to fixing their derailed equipment
Good question. I would like to know too.
NS f’d up on CSX tracks. NS pays lol
Call me captain obvious but if they were traveling long hood forward shouldnt there have been a conductor on the end? Maybe too small a crew contributed to this more than the derailer itself?
What are the compensation/cost sharing arrangements between railroads for run-through locomotives, or when run through engines are "captured" and used a bit by foreign railroads? Might make a good video?
that crew is in *TROUBLE* ... so these guys knew enough to call CSX on their channel prior to entering their property but didn't know enough to *NOT* proceed if they don't get an answer ... and then they didn't know CSX mow was even working??????????... when you are going on foreign rail property, you are supposed to have that railroads track bulletins... if they had CSX track bulletins they would have KNOWN of the m.o.w. working there...back in the late 90s on the U.P. this would be a level 4 offense on the upgrade discipline system... pretty serious to enter m.o.w. working limits without permission
I find it interesting that NS says that "NS crew was not notified of MOW working." They're not saying that CSX didn't tell NS, just that nobody told the crew. That, to me, suggests that CSX told NS about the MOW, but NS failed to pass that information to the crew. (Unless it's somehow CSX's responsibility to get the track bulletins to the individual NS crews. I assume they give them to NS and it's NS's job to distribute them to the crews who need them.)
@@beeble2003
*I assume they give them to NS and it's NS's job to distribute them to the crews who need them*
absolutely correct...
but now the questions start... did the NS crews get the CSX track bulletins... did they READ them... did the CSX track bulletins contain the m.o.w. information... did they read them and then maybe forgot about the m.o.w. info (believe it or not, that does happen) ...
like i said this is pretty serious... going into FORM B limits without permission is right up there with running a red absolute or blowing BLUE FLAG protection or blowing an after order on a track warrant...
also CSX could BAN that crew from working on their territory... that has also happened
@@25mfd Then it sounds like either NS had the information but failed to pass it to this crew, or CSX failed to pass the information to NS -- but, in that case, you'd expect them to say "NS not informed" rather than "NS crew not informed".
@@beeble2003
perhaps... but the thing that still gets me is that the crew called CSX on their channel and didn't get a response... but then still went forward into the UNKNOWN... i do wonder WHY did they do that???
@@25mfd I guess they were so used to being told it was OK that they came to see the radio call as "Tell me if there's any reason I can't proceed" rather than asking permission to proceed.
Great video
Thanks!
@@v12productions your welcome
Oh no!
6.27 main track restricted speed.
CORRECT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
💀average day on Norfolk southern be like 💀💀💀💀💀
I work near a track and saw some of those and thought I should check those out and make sure they weren't going to cause an accident. I got up to it and it was clearly supposed to be there. It had a sign on it. There were several more too. Then a train came by, but it was on the other side so it was fine
Fixing up a locomotive built in 1978? How long do these go until they’re retired?
You almost imply that the restricted vision was part of the cause of the accident (neglecting the fact no permission to ride that track was given). So why in this day and age are there not cameras fitted facing forward to cover the blind spots created by the engine cowlings? Also they could use GPS and rail status mapping in real time to alarm them of no entry or restricted lines just as motorists get warned of congestion ahead as another tool to mitigate incidents like this, is that ever used? Fascinating to see how small the derail device is. Lucky no one was hurt, Certainly a costly accident!
Money is the reason why. Its yard limits is the other reason.
EMD NS[EX-CR] GP39-2
Wow I know some heads rolled wow
"Competency Crisis"
Are they gonna restore the locomotive and run it on the mainline?
I can’t that exact same train in Varnell Georgia. Headed to Chattanooga.
thanks
What is interesting is why the ns crew proceeded on entering the switch siding when there was no responce from the csx dispatcher nor the mow crews on deactivating the derail to allow them to continue on and why wasnt there anyone near the derail to warn the train crews on the derail being there
MofW doesnt have the man power to babysit derails. Its up to the train crew to pay attention. They did not.
EMD NS GP39-2
... _Gravity._
Does anyone know the top speed of a camera drone equipped with LIDAR?
Time to upgrade devices on train tracks
Incompetence is rampant these days.
Where can I access the accident reports?
The FRA office of Safety will be a good place to start.
Google this and it should get you there. "Accident Data as reported by Railroads"
Hay V12 have you heard the news about this 17yr old teen derailing a BNSF train in Nebraska for RUclips clout
Dirt nap baby way to go
Thank God it Wasn't a Passenger Train.
New priority request: make a video about the person who purposefully derailed a train for clout.
Second What happened to the Locomotive?
*OOPS...🤦♂️*
Derail a train to stop it?
well, you got it half right... derail a train to stop it... *from going into an area where workers are on the track*
Love it
Oops
You think they would put fuel tanks In a less vulnerable location on the locomotive.
And where would that be junior...
O dear 🤔🚂🚂🚂
Build in 1979
Please tell me why does everyone worry about a diesel leak and yet No one cares when diesel pickup trucks start pouring out unburn fuel and smoke when they turn up the setting on the engine. Yes the railroad like my job needs to Stop cutting there help and get some help otherwise they'll start shipping by trucks and if one wreck with the stuff hauled in the tanks of these trains happen, it will cause a lot of Hell from the people on the roads and they'll blame the railroads for it.
Those grain car didn't derailed!!
'
look at this video...
woods blocks tracks are bad and cheap / weak...
better put strong concretes blocks tracks on the ground...
not woods blocks tracks
25 inches or 25 feet
😮
I’m not knowledgeable about railroading just interested. I don’t understand why the engineer got a dang for driving too fast for conditions when it was an open track and should not have had a derailer on it?
Probably was an area where restricted speed was required anyway. Yard track interchange track facilities etc. it’s a somewhat lengthy definition but basically it boils down to if you hit it you were going too fast.
@@kansascityshuffle8526 well I kinda have a heavy gas pedal in my car, so to me 10 miles an hour is restricted lol but I bet for trains it’s different
@@MarysMaamCave lol yeah a bit different. If I remember the rule generally goes ‘a speed that will allow you to stop short of red or blue flags , track inits, derails …. not exceeding 15 mph.
What do you mean "should not have had a derailer on it"? The derailer there was to protect the MOW crew. If the derailer hadn't been there, the train would have ploughed straight into the work crew.
@@beeble2003 No. He just doesn’t understand what a portable derail is used for. You would have seen that if you actually read both sentences of his comment.
And
Norfolk... no... Not possible. Bunch of clowns.
Long Hood Forward is Always Risky Option because your Vision is Absolutely Affected in a Very Negative way which Explains Why it’s Not always Allowed in certain cases.👎
In this instance, I'm sure the engineer was glad he was LHF
IN ANY INSTANCE WITH AN BACK UP MOVE IT IS REQUIRED TO HAVE SOME ONE AT POINT , EITHER IN VIEW OF THE LOCOMOTIVE ENGINEER, OR CLOSELY COMMUNICATING WITH THE ENGINEER BY RADIO!
@@rossbryan6102 #1, Stop yelling. #2, It wasn't a backup move.
🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿
Sucks to suck
Aren't armchair quarterbacks NOT wonderful to listen to.
not gonna lie. i keep a portable derailer in my big igloo kit. ya just never know....
EMD NS [EX-CR] GP39-2