My brother and me were promising young 1500m runners, specially my brother. We shared a bedroom. We had a huge Jim Ryun poster on the wall. His photo and the writing was 3;33;1 on cinder track. That is how much we adored him in Hungary.
The Digital Crescendo, It was a very appropriate statement. My brother and I was young 1 milers, I was 16 and in out bedroom Jim Ryun's poster was on the wall.
I am from Kansas. In the 1965 State Track Championships the track was made of cinder, not concrete. I ran on cinder tracks in high school in the very early 70's and tracks were very slippery requiring 1/2 to 3/4 inch spikes. I would take two seconds off of Ryun's time against Snell, which would have given him a 3:53 compared to tartan tracks today, and a 3:56 at the State meet which is out of this world fantastic. Ryun is America's best High School runner, period...Pretontaine...our best Distance Runner in USA history for the type of runner he was and how much he inspired others
Thanks for pointing out that it was a cinder track. Ran on a lot of cinder tracks myself back in early 1970s as a high schooler. I knew it wasn't concrete.
Indeed! My H.S. retired the amazing Art Dulong's Track Uniform & spikes after he ran 8:59 / 2 mile indoors, 4:04 mile, and 1:49.2 /880 yd in 1966!! Art had the XC record in the 2.4 XC record at Franklin Park in the New England HS Championship race in 1965!! Dulong had more speed & range than Salazar!! Only Ryun, Danielson, & Lindgren were better HS distance runners in the mid 60's.
In the 1965 Kansas State Track Meet, the 2nd place finisher was Mike Pedersen, who went to the same high school as Jim - Wichita East. Third place was run by Steve Perry, a junior from Wichita North high school. Mike went on to the University of Kansas as well, where he and Jim ran for the Jayhawks. Jim credits Mike's assistance in helping him getting a fast time in this race, even though it costs Mike in terms of getting his own best time.
Man, I knew that Jim Ryun was a high school stud, but this video made me realize how revolutionary he really was. Beating the Olympic Champion in high school is no joke. Solid video man. Keep them coming. I’d love to see Evan Jager.
Maybe, but if Keino could do 3min 34 sec at altitude, Jim would have had to have broken his own world record to beat him at sea level, and the Ryun of 1968 wasn't as good as the Ryun of 1967. However, the fact that we were denied a great - and fair - race is down to the stupidity of the Olympic committee.
@@musik102 Yes, Ryun was still feeling the effects from mono and an injured hamstring!! Nobody from any era could've beat Keino in the 1500m at Mexico (8216 ft above sea level) in "68". However; in 1967 Ryun was untouchable!!!!
Keep in mind that Ryun ran the last 100m in 11.6 and the last 400m in 50.6 at Dusseldorf, W.Germany in 1967!! Jim had a better kick than either Seb Coe or Dave Wottle!! Had Ryun ran the 800m at Mexico in the "68" Olympcs he would've won Gold!!
Ryan at his best was incomparable, epic. Untouchable at his best. But in the Olympics a hard luck guy like Pre. Pre was is justly a legend but in reality Ryan was a far better runner. Inspite of injury and illness in 1968 had he chosen to focus on the 800 I think he would have won. Altitude was much less of a factor at that distance. Keino was as lucky as Ryan was unlucky. There's always a if but had the 68 games been at or near sea level and Ryan moderately healthy it may have been Jim Ryan the legend today. But he is a legend in my book .
Regarding the Snell race. Jim had finished third to Snell not long before this race and Jim realised that, against Snell, you can't leave your finishing kick until the last 200m, and so Jim ran very hard from the bell, and that allowed him to win the race. However, it should be noted that Peter not at his best in 1965.
We idolized Ryan in HS. My next door neighbor in Scotch Plains, NJ broke Jim Ryan's HS indoor mile record of 4:07.2 by running 4:06.6 in 1972 in Princeton NJ which stood for 43 yrs. Scotch Plains also home of Renaldo Skeets Nehemiah SPFHS 77
Alan Webb ran a 3:59 indoor mile in High School & 4 months later he shattered Ryun's High School Outdoor Mile record by running a 3:53.4 mile which was won by El-G at the Prefontaine Classic Track & Field Championships.
Great video. His 1965 Kansas State Meet 3:58 Mile was certainly not on a concrete track. It was cinder. Basically equivalent to running a 3:54 Mile on a modern synthetic track. And this was 55 years ago in a high school meet, having to lead start to finish! His 1965 AAU 3:55 Mile was run on an asphalt-composite track however called Grass-Tex.
In the 1965 AAU Championship against Peter Snell, the leader going into the last lap was Jozef Odlozil of Czechoslovakia. That particular race was run on an asphalt track (one of the first all-weather types of tracks). Ryun preferred dirt tracks, actually. There is a great book on Ryun -- "The Jim Ryun Story" by Cordner Nelson.
I stole that book from the library in 8th grade. That year I ran my first mile race and won with a time of 5:38...that number should ring a bell. That race is also where the comparison ends... (And I returned the book many years later)
Ryun was coached by Jack Daniels around the 1968 Mexico City olympics. The games were held at altitude and they knew that going out at a normal pace would kill them later in the race, so ryun planned to stay at the back and kick with a lap to go. Kip keino lived and trained at altitude in kenya, so he was accustomed to the conditions and wasn't affected like the other athletes. Under those conditions, ryun ran as well as he could've. This is also why the games were never held at altitude after 1968
I wish readers would remember that runners up to 1980 had to work regular jobs to support themselves. Jim Ryun had to work. He was married. AAU got the money not Ryun, when they entered him in races. Running in Europe via your running agent did not happen then. Many top milers in later years respected guys like Elliott Snell and Ryun...and knew their kicks were equal of any runner through years....no drugs either Mr Viren (blood doping) Anyway..complete nonsense criticizing our best ever miler
Jim had a better kick than Seb Coe!! Ryun was clocked at 11.6 sec in the last 100 meters in the 1500m and 50.6 sec in the last 400m in Dusseldorf, West Germany in 1967!!
Great analysis. I grew up seeing him on Wide World Of Sports on TV, and of course the Olympics. My first track race was in 1973 and I ran 4:59 for the mile and couldn't comprehend running a minute faster than that. We all read "The Jim Ryun Story" and were flabbergasted by his workouts. I agree about his impeccable running form. The 2nd place kid in the state meet was his teammate, trying to "help" him with pace. His splits were like 1:59/2:17 and he still got 2nd. It was around 100 degrees in the shade, probably 110+ on the track. NO ONE ever handled Snell like that over the last 300 of any race. Watch the 1500 final of the '64 Olympics and you will be ammazed. I think this race in CA kind of slammed the door on Snell's great career. The third place runner was Jim Grelle, who would have been well-known if it weren't for the kid from Kansas.
Freestyle Wow thank you for that awesome information! I really appreciate it. It’s so great to hear from someone who knows so much about Jim Ryun. It really is amazing just how fast he was at such a young age. Best of running to you my friend! And thanks for the comment.
I have to wonder why Jim Ryun never ran a paced race to break 3:50. Roger Bannister recruited not one, but two pacers to aid his quest for breaking the four-minute barrier. Ryun ran a 351.1 leading the race virtually from the start. He ran a 3:33.1 in the 1500 devasting Kip Keino with what many remembered to be a 51-second bell lap. Coe, Ovett, and Cram used rabbits all time. and find it strange Ryun never did. I think 3:48 was definitely in his reach and maybe faster.
The "mile" video is of his 1500 WR vs Keino in 1967. Note that they start on the backstretch. The HS mile was on cinder, dirt or clay--note the chalk lines and the puffs of track surface that follow each stride.
Good video. Additional comment regarding '68 Olympics , Mexico City , high altitude, the Kenyans took advantage of it psychologically and just buried that first 800 meters.
I believe in regard to Mexico city that Keino later said he considered Ryun to have run the greatest race of all time given that he was a sea level person running a race at extreme altitude.
Keino beat Jim at Mexico City in 1968 due to Jim not being trained at altitude. He also was trained quite hard by the coaches at Kansas U. At the '68 Olympics Kip Keino trained at a similar altitude in Kenya his entire life which was a huge advantage. Also, two Kenyans teamed together to help Kip win that race. Ryan, under the circumstances actually ran a great race in Mexico City.
In high school I ran distance on dirt, cinder, rubberized asphalt, and rubber. Temperature and humidity/rain make a huge difference as do shoes. Hats off to Ryun and all young runners who compete in tough conditions. And then there is cross country. Loved those long spikes.
It's always interesting discussing/debating who was the "best" 1500m/Mile runner of all time. (Just up to say 1972. Leave out the transition to better tracks and professionalism of post 1972) I'm a Kiwi so could be called biased towards Snell... BUT my pick for "Best" is clear: It is the great Australian Herb Elliot. He lost a race at 1 mile when he was aged 14 then, after that, he WAS NEVER BEATEN OVER 1500m or the mile FOR THE REST OF HIS CAREER. As an adult he never lost and retired as World Record holder and Olympic gold medalist. No one has come close to that statistic.
John Wilson, He retired before anybody would beat him. He did not give chance to the upcoming challengers. If he did, he would have been beaten by Snell, Jazy and after by a Wichita high school boy.
@@xxthatpookieeditsxx Each of these incredible runners had their "prime years where they were unbeatable!! Ryun's prime years were "66" & "67" and Keino was unbeatable in the 1500m in the "68" Olympics at altitude in Mexico. Keino was suffering from gallstones / agony. Kip always seemed to peak at the Olympics. He ended up with 2 Gold Medals & 2 Silver Medals from the "68" and "72 Olympic games.
John Wilson..The greatest miler trophy might go to a Kiwi. To Sir John Walker who ran the one mile under 4 minutes more than 100 times... Schnell can't be because the 17 or 18 years old Ryun beat him. Eliot retired very soon, he was 22? One thing is for sure..No one miler run the last 300m for 38.1 after clocking 2 minutes 55 seconds the first 1200 meter. Jim Ryun did it.. On dirt track. That's why he is my favorit and because when I was a wannabe one miler he was at his peak. I was 13 and I had a poster in my bedroom of Jim Ryun being at the finish line and written on: 3:33:1 on cinder track. I was 20 when I got below the 4 minute mark and that was it for my carrier. I could never beat Jim but I beat Sir Bannister in 1976. Who was the greatest miler? It depends on wich way we look at it.
I've only seen one book on running in Japan that was in English. It would be nice to see something about the women marathoners from Japan that have won Olympic Gold. Just got back from Asaka (in Saitama Prefecture) and ran along the river there every morning and saw lots of runners of all ages going pretty fast.
I wonder if he had some sort of natural advantage? I know secretariat had a heart 1.5 times the size of a normal horse's heart. I read recently that the philippine boxer is 40 something and still beat opponents because he can maintain a heart rate max of over 200 beats a minute, thus more cardiac capacity when needed.
Ryun was built perfectly for a miler!! If Jim had another HS & College Track Coach he would've run much faster in the long run!! Timmons burnt Jim out with his insane interval work! My guess is he had the same talent that Seb Coe had and had Peter Coe, Jack Danielson or Salazar coached Ryun and brough him along slowly he would've run much faster and had a longer track career!!
There are several points that I feel could improve his overall score. The time historically in which he competed. Dealing with amateurism in the USA. You mention equipment and that cement track. Being a highschooler competing globally. But really despite amateurism, the reason he had a reputation as a competitor is that he was a pioneer. Being the first has to count ten-fold, support system and science of physiology (not to mention PED's) and the duration of records holding up. Tiger Woods and Lebron James were in money sports that support the media and still are behind him.
I like your thoughts, and yes, he certainly was a pioneer! Even by today's standards his times are competitive, and yet he ran in the 1960's, and many of his performances were as an amateur. I may find a way to incorporate a ranking category that involves the breaking of new territory, or "pioneer" status as you mentioned. Thanks for the insightful comment. And thanks for watching the video as well.
The 1965 AAU Championship start of the last lap is Rick (?) Romo Texas, then Ryun, Snell and Jim Grelle. Consider that Ryun's records were on cinder, aka dirt, tracks you need to take at least one second off his 880 and 2 seconds of the mile. He was a good student of the events and knew that over the last 5 years no one had overcome Snell in the last lap. That's why the big surge. At Mexico he had a very short training window recovering from mono. At the time no one understood the tremendous advantage that the Kenyans and Ethiopians had. Ryun ran at a pace that he considered would bring a win. If you watch the last lap he gains on Kieno on every step. Then there are the restrictions of the day. He had to support himself. If you were a high school coach you were ineligible to compete at the Olympics. In 1967 at Dusseldorf he annihilated two of the biggest kickers of the day Bod Tummler and Harold Norpoth. There is much debate about his last lap time but most experts agree that it was most likely below 50 seconds, maybe even under 49, with a slow first turn. Possibly the best true runner but tactically challenged as the world caught up.
In the 1965 AAU Championship against Peter Snell, the leader going into the last lap was Jozef Odlozil of Czechoslovakia -- it was a year later when Rick Romo paced him to his first mile world record. That particular race was run on an asphalt track (one of the first all-weather types of tracks). Ryun preferred dirt tracks, actually. Great book on Ryun -- "The Jim Ryun Story" by Cordner Nelson.
Ryun was was EIGHTEEN at his 1965 state meet, not 17. The runner finishing second is Mike Petterson, a teammate of Ryun who kept with Ryun as long as he could to help him achieve his a goal of a sub 4 mile in a high school meet. In the Mexico City Olympics Ryun's tactics were dictated by the high altitude where less oxygen negatively impacts distance runners who don't live at high altitude like Ryun who was beat by a high altitude runner. Ryun had falls in races, most significantly, as you note, the 1972 Olympic semi-final but he often had problems, getting knocked off balance or into the infield, due to bad balance. This was due to an ear infection as a child.
Very good sir! It's nice to hear knowledgable track & field fans from Ryun's era that understand the basics of altitude and that jim was still recovering from mono and a strained hamstring at mexico.
@@richardmilliken5651 At his best Ryun ran 3:33.1, what would that be worth at Mexico? What would Keino have run at sea level? Timmons was a army drill instructor. I'm sure he destroyed some careers but without him Ryun would never have run his high school times. I'm not judging that good or bad, just saying.
I'm from Bakersfield CA. The year Ryun broke the WR in the 1mile he set it at Bakersfield College Memorial Stadium in 1967. I think he broke it a month or two before I was born on August 22, 67. Ryun was an incredible athlete. I met him in B and he was as cool a fellow as you could ever want to meet.
I would give him a 9 rather than just an 8 in the Championships category. In 1968 the Kenyans used Ben Jipcho as a rabbit to ease the way for Kip Keino to time his move almost perfectly to get enough of a lead so that Kip could survive Jim’s kick. I still wonder why Jim’s coaches didn’t prepare him better for that Kenyan strategy. Furthermore, Jim was at a considerable disadvantage compared to the Kenyans at Mexico City’s altitude.
As a Kenyan, watching the excuses people make for Kip Keino smoking Ryun is ridiculous. Kip Keino had ran the 5K and had to drop out of the 10K with 2 kilomètres to go because he apparently had gall stones. The race against Ryun was his 6th race and he beat him by a ridiculous distance! He was literally told not to run that race yet still smoked a very fresh faced Ryun who only ran 1500m. Kip Keino ran everything from the 1500 to Steeple chase in his career...
Very nice presentation. Ryun was an inspiration for many runners including me. You should have mentioned that Ryun a fantastic runner even while he was dealing with his asthma. I first learned about Ryun from an article that claimed that he took up distance running to help deal with his asthma. The fact that he had asthma makes his accomplishment all the more impressive.
I think it is important to note that Mexico City’s altitude was a deciding factor in how well Jim ran the final for the 1500 m. He won a silver medal against a man who was born and lived in altitude. Jim ran a tactical race to finish in top 3!
The 3:55 mile he ran in high school, he beat Peter Snell Gold madalist n world record holder...with Ryn and Snell was Jim Grelle the current US mile record holder and broke that race open. The 2nd place high school miler when Ryun ran 3:58 was Ryun's high school teammate a 4:10 miler...12 sec behind Ryun No mention of Dusseldorf Germany when Ryun blew Germans off track w solo 36.4 300 m final kick Or final 1200 of 2:46 in WR 1500. Certainly as good as any runner
But would he have to change his name from Ryun to Ryun? By the way...jims final 1200m in his 1500m race point to 3:45-6 pace. Everyone knew Ryun could run that but he had no one to help
Could Jim have competed against all the doped up runners like H.El G., Ngeny, Morcelli, and Ngeny!! How can you compete against EPO & HGH & Steroid fueled runners??
Analyze Billy Mills please! His Olympic 10000 finish was the finish that Pre wanted in the ‘72 5000 but could t muster. Mills was other worldly in that race.
you didn't mention one item which made Ryun a great distance runner in his era. He was basically a sprinter who moved up to longer distance , he ran 100 (yards) in 10.3 seconds and had run the 220 in 22+ seconds.
When Australia's Herb Elliott broke the WR for the mile in 1958, he bettered the previous record by 2.7 seconds. When he took the 1500 WR he beat the previous by 2.1 seconds. He retired at 22 y.o.undefeated over the mile with 36 wins from 36 races. I can understand Americans supporting their own champions but they do often get carried away and often make absurd claims along the lines of "best ever" without considering the records of non-Americans
You asked who was the second place runner in Ryun's 1965 high school state meet, that was Mike Petersen from Ryun's high school, in the race to help Ryun break 4.
@@aldopedroso6212 The ? is how many runners got injured or quit track & field under Coach Timmons?? I can't even imagine doing 40 x 440yd intervals in the afternoon after running 5-8 miles in the morning!! I was doing 20 x 440yd intervals, slightly quicker at between 64sec - 66sec with a 90 second rest and running 0 miles in the morning@HS. Jim was running 100 mile weeks in HS and i was running 40 - 50 miles during the 70's. We thought we were running a lot during the summers before XC season and in reality our 60 miles/ week were half of what Eric Hulst & Jeff Nelson was running during the summer! I guess that's why i ran 9:12 in the 2 mile / HS and Nelson ran 8:36 in HS and held the national 2 mile record. Salazar was smoking me in XC, HS Meets.
great, great Jim Ryun... one of the best milers ever - just behind Elliott, Snell, Keino, Walker, Coe, Ovett, Cram, Morcelli, El G and few others (such as Jacob). For sure, one of best 20 milers EVER!
I think Ryun had as much ability if not more than any of those you have mentioned if you look at his world records as a 19/20 year old, which the others couldn't match at the same age. He was unfortunate to compete in Mexico at altitude and then fall in his heat in Munich. With better coaching he would have carried on for longer and lowered the Mile and 1500m records but Timmons ran him into the ground with his monster interval training.
As a high schooler he beat the Olympic champion Peter Snell in a time of 3:55, at a time when the mile record was only two seconds faster at 3:56. That would be like a high schooler beating Ingebritsen in a 3:45.
also, as far as range, this is back in the day when they weren't dopers like the guys you mentioned...young guys now, it's so sad, because, unlike the 60's and 70's, most fans look up to dopers....there are no more Pre's, Gerry Lindgresn!!!!!!!, no Jim Ryun's,.......no Billy Rodgers......though now Salazar became a doper proponent, it's truly sad............
Can I make a suggestion on the scoring range? Since you are focusing on elite runners, it is kind of pointless to have everything squashed in the 90-100 range. To that effect, I would recommend "zooming in" your scoring by compressing the range of of each category in 1-5, or even better 1-3. This will make differentiations much more meaningful and -- also -- you will give yourself permission to be more aggressive in rating people more accurately without seeming 'disrespectful' even if it's subconsciously. You ARE looking at the best of the best and the comparison is really amongst them so you want to have better delineation.
Jim Ryun was a truly great miler, most definitely one of the greatest ever (and certainly the greatest ever US miler). But was he the greatest of all time in the world? Impossible to say, not least because it’s difficult to compare different eras. Gounder Hagg, Roger Banister (whose training was minimal btw), Herb Elliot, Steve Ovett, Seb Coe, among others, could all make a claim to be the GOAT miler.
First off, loved the coverage of Ryun and wished you would have compared his running style from his prime in 1965 to his last stand, no pun intended, in the 1972 trials before he was tripped. Ryun actually ran a 3:52 mile in the Toronto Mail Meet before the trials, so he was in damn good shape. You take away tactical points from Ryun for his performance in the 1500 at Mexico City, but miss two points I think are quite important. First, the race was run at 7,000 feet of altitude, perfect for Keino and not so much for sea level athletes such as Ryun. Second, the Kenyans delegated Ben Jipcho as Keino's pace horse to get out quick to keep the past fast and let Keino draft off him in the early going because they feared Ryun's legendary kick. This is acceptable in regular meets, but not the games, and when Ryun was later running on the pro track circuit Jipcho apologized to him for being a pace horse and regretted his actions.
Didn’t kip Keino have gall stones and he also had ran the 8 of the 10K and 5K before the 1500? I mean come on... Not to mention the heats he ran to qualify for the finals of these races. All at high altitude! This was Kip Keino’s 6th race!!
@@rimun5235 My comment was aimed at Ryun's tactical score suffering because of this race. He trained at altitude with coach Jack Daniels and when he first arrived could not break a 4:20 mile. Six weeks later Daniels estimated he had a 3:36 effort in him which is exactly what he ran. Six weeks does make up for a lifetime at altitude. Ryun simply did not have the background training to beat Keino at the 7,000 feet of Mexico City. At sea level he owned him. Ryun's loss was due to Keino's talent, Jipcho's early pacing, and the altitude - not poor tactics.
@@rimun5235 Yes, Keino was in a great deal of pain from his gallstones and he ended up dropping out of the 10K as a result. Kip was advised from his Dr. not to run the 1500m final. At the same time, Ryun was still recovering from mono and a strained hamstring. Henceforth; neither runners were 100% and obviously Keino had a severe advantage between racing at altitude and with Jipcho setting a fast steady pace in an effort to burn the other runners out at altitude. Kip had a talent for peaking at the Olympic games and i firmly believe that he was in the zone of zones when he ran a perfect race at altitude in the 1500m at the Mexico Olympic Games in"68"! Nobody from any era would've beat Keino in the 1500m that day!! It was pure magic, "Poetry in Motion", just like Coe at the "84 Olympic Games", just like Ryun in Dusseldorf, W.Germany when Jim ran the last 100m in 11.6 in that 1500m race! That was even faster than Coe's best, last 100m in 12.2! Ryun was a complete animal in 1967! Untouchable IMHO!!~~~ Ryun was my hero back then because i couldn't wrap my head around beating Snell in the mile when i was in HS. Jim was the greatest HS Athlete of alltime!!
Jim Ryun was sick with an ear infection during his second, I believe, Olympic. He never fully recovered from a young eardrum injury resulting in middle ear problems.
Extremely, very, amazing, incredible. Speaking is so much more effective if you remove most if not all of such words. It’s illogical to describe as incredible something that has actually happened. Picky I know but this is an extreme example though i still found it an enjoyable video to watch.
learn your track history. the 1968 Olympic were at Mexico City nobody understood anything about high altitude effect on distance performance at the time. Especially the corrupt Olympic committee who was only concerned about their benefits. Jim Ryun was still recovering from mononucleosis early that year. Keino had two advantages. He was from Kenya obviously but more importantly he had years of competitive experience at altitude. His winning time remained a career PR, was the 2nd fastest of all time at that point and remained the OR for 4 Olympiad. It was an outstanding performance and Ryun would have been hard put even at sea level. 1972 was a disaster his 3:52.1 mile was entered as a 1500 meter qualifying time. He should have never been in that heat. But his tendency to pass on the turn was his true undoing and we will never know.
Excellent analysis!! Interesting fact about Jim Ryun falling down was that Howard Cossell filed Jim's appeal to get him admitted in the final but was turned down by the corrupt Olympic committe.
Firstly, his 1:44.9 was for 880 yards not 800 metres. Secondly, the first video is not from a world record mile but his 3:33.1 1500 world record from 1967. You suggest Ryun did not know how to train; what grounds have you for making such a ridiculous statement?
mark Bateman If I did say that I certainly didn’t mean it. I have a book that discusses his training and I was blown away at how well he trained. I would even say he may have overtrained, at least for the mileage he ran as a junior athlete. So, no I certainly don’t think ryun “didn’t know how to train.” If you could point out where I said that I’d appreciate it so I can avoid making a similar mistake in the future.
We now know in hindsight that Jim Ryun was overtrained as a H.S & College Runner. Coach Timmon's was a swim coach before he started coaching track & field and as a result he had Jim and the rest of the middle distance runners doing monster interval training. Ryun was doing 40x 440yd / 24 x 880yd interval training in the afternoon as well as running 5 miles under 6min /mile in the morning before school. We now know that you need easy recovery day workouts to make maximize adaptation when training intensely/hard workouts. Jim Ryuns immunity system was breaking down and he was getting injured a lot after 1967. Obviously Ryun hit his peak years between 1966 - 1967, when he set all of his world records in the 800m, 880yd, 1500m, and mile and the american 2 mile record. Ryun had mono 3 different times, he developed asthma & hay fever allergies. Jim hit his absolute prime by 1967 at 20 years of age and he was inconsistent after that. He ran a great 1500m race at the "68" Olympic games at altitude against Keino. Kip had a huge advantage in that race as he lived and trained at altitude his whole life. Ryun paced himself and didn't fall for Jipsho's rabbit pace!!
@@richardmilliken5651Agree with a lot of what you say - but a lot of those 440s and 880s were run at relatively slow paces. Today we would call them Tempo efforts rather than hard intervals. A lot of the 880s were run in the 2:20 -2:30 range.
That kid from Sweden top the 'high school only' 3;58? Jorgesten or something, he has older brother, both beasts. Not sure what kind of invitational, but he has a 3;53 i think. Either way kudos to anyone ANYONE that can break 4. I was a solid athlete and ran xcountry and barely broke 5 once. This shit is amazing and thanks for the videos!
Unless the new high school mile records are run on a cinder track, Jim Ryan should still be keep the number 1/ best high school miler in history. If the new guys can beat his record on a cinder track then they deserve to be number 1 and passing Jim Ryan. Yes today's athletes have far better shoes, but a cinder track is a real disadvantage to speed.
you dont seem to know your history, that well. jim ryun lost to keino in mexico city because the air was so thin. many of the milers could not even finish.
@@michaeladrian2210 You mean 1:44.3 at 800m during Ryun's 1:44.9 880 yard world record. It took Ryun 0.6 seconds (only accurate to tenths of a second, not to hundreths) to run the extra 4.672 meters (almost 5.11 yards) from 800 meters to 880 yards (1:43.34 880 yard pace for the extra 4.672 meters but if actual hundreths of a second were available this would vary).
I think you should have included the blazing final 300m (36.4) against kicker Bodo Tummler, Jim Grelle and Norpoth in Dusseldorf Germany in 1967. All 4 runners together before 300 m mark left in 1500m race and his 36.4 300m finish beat all the rest by 4 seconds..3:37 to 3:42. My ex coach was the great Jim Grelle in that race. RUclips Ryun Dusseldorf
And...........what was a big reason for his kick???? Nice trick???....did you get it yet???............ARMS!!!...."we did a lot of weights and cables in between intervals", they had weights on the track!! and between 30-40 400's!!!!! they would do weights after 10 or so, etc......he has always stated, I kicked so well, cause my arms were so well trained
Keino only beat Ryun once having been blown off track in every race against Keino....his WR 1500m his final 3 laps averaged 55 sec 2:46...1200m....not done by anyone for years You guys are nuts
1968 Olympic's was not a failure Ryun. He got a silver medal. But the video doesn't even mention a few facts of Ryun vs Keino in Mexico City. Jim suffered from attack of mono just preceding the Olympics. Ask Seb Coe how long it took him to recover. Then the race itself was at 7,382 ft...not sea level of Kansas. Keino lived n trained higher than 7,000 ft. Add to this Keino's 5ft 8in, 146lb frame is lighter and more suited to high altitude than Ryun's much heavier and denser 6ft 2 in, 168 lb . Thus altitude works against big milers such as Ryun and Bodo Tummler of Germany (watch you tube of Ryun in Dusseldorf Germany against Tummler) 3rd place in Mexico City . These two had more challenge as big men at altitude. Now Keino had one pre-race tactic, I believe. He must have tried various races against Ryun. Waiting til final 300m to kick (that failed) to taking off with 1200m left (Ryun finished last 1200m in 2:47) so in Mexico who knew he had to go from start. Now Keino had very bad stomach pain and knew that Ryun's kick could be compromised with altitude so he took up the challenge and went from the start. Keino did fantastic job. Ryun, learning from training in Colorado as to how hard altitude would be on his racing form started race with that experience behind him. He ran faster than he thought he could. Read Dr Jack Daniels story about Ryun at altitude. Would he have raced differently at sea level....of course. Ryun and athletes of that era can't be compared with athletes such as Coe n El G because they didn't have financial resources to just train. That makes a difference
Jim Ryun was one of my heroes growing up, a great great runner BUT he was not the greatest high school athlete, Bob Mathias was. Bob won the decathlon at the age of 17 and two months out of high school. The decathlon is considered the toughest track and field event so I pick Bob Mathias, Ryun second.
Jakob , for his age, is already an amazing runner. If he continues improving he could break mile and 1500 m world records. But he isn't winning the big races he is entering. He's still learning. So, NO, he doesn't compare to the great Herb Elliot.
@@johnwilson5743 Jakob just won the Gold Medal at the Tokyo Olympics in the 1500m in a new olympic record time of3:28. He will break the world record in the 1500m and the 5K.
It may seem like Ryun was over trained in high school because he would come home from practice fall on his bed and sleep until the next morning. This made him very strong. Sounds rediculous to alot of mothers and his own, but its commitment.
We now know in hindsite that Ryun was overtrained to say the least in HS & College!! Coach Timmons ended up destroying Jim's immunity system by his insane interval work and not enough easy recovery days to make the proper adaption to increasing intensity workouts in a sensible manner like Seb Coe, Ovett, Cram H.El G., Ngeny, Lagat,Beks,Geb, & Kipchoge, Rupp and Kessler. Ryun was still recovering from mono and a strained hamstring during the "68" Olympics. If Jack Danielson had trained Ryun during the 60's, JIm would've run faster, healthier and had a longer & happier track career.
“Every kid coming along foolish enough to take up this crazy sport wanted to be the next Jim Ryun.” Very appropriate.
Prefontaine included.
My brother and me were promising young 1500m runners, specially my brother. We shared a bedroom. We had a huge Jim Ryun poster on the wall. His photo and the writing was 3;33;1 on cinder track. That is how much we adored him in Hungary.
@@hyrumjohnson2162 Oh, no...
The Digital Crescendo, It was a very appropriate statement. My brother and I was young 1 milers, I was 16 and in out bedroom Jim Ryun's poster was on the wall.
“Forget Ryun he’s done. I’m gonna be the first Steve Prefontaine.”
I am from Kansas. In the 1965 State Track Championships the track was made of cinder, not concrete. I ran on cinder tracks in high school in the very early 70's and tracks were very slippery requiring 1/2 to 3/4 inch spikes. I would take two seconds off of Ryun's time against Snell, which would have given him a 3:53 compared to tartan tracks today, and a 3:56 at the State meet which is out of this world fantastic. Ryun is America's best High School runner, period...Pretontaine...our best Distance Runner in USA history for the type of runner he was and how much he inspired others
Thanks for pointing out that it was a cinder track. Ran on a lot of cinder tracks myself back in early 1970s as a high schooler. I knew it wasn't concrete.
they should make a US coin with Ryun & Prefontaine ;-)
I went to the same High School as Mr. Ryun, they have the stop watch that timed the 3:58 in the foyer of the gym there.
Indeed! My H.S. retired the amazing Art Dulong's Track Uniform & spikes after he ran 8:59 / 2 mile indoors, 4:04 mile, and 1:49.2 /880 yd in 1966!! Art had the XC record in the 2.4 XC record at Franklin Park in the New England HS Championship race in 1965!! Dulong had more speed & range than Salazar!! Only Ryun, Danielson, & Lindgren were better HS distance runners in the mid 60's.
In the 1965 Kansas State Track Meet, the 2nd place finisher was Mike Pedersen, who went to the same high school as Jim - Wichita East. Third place was run by Steve Perry, a junior from Wichita North high school. Mike went on to the University of Kansas as well, where he and Jim ran for the Jayhawks. Jim credits Mike's assistance in helping him getting a fast time in this race, even though it costs Mike in terms of getting his own best time.
It's amazing how Mike ran in that 1965 State Meet in the mile!! I believe Pederson came through the half mile under 2 minutes!!
Steve Perry had an amazing post-running career singing for the rock and roll band *JOURNEY*
🤟🎤🎹🎸🥁
Man, I knew that Jim Ryun was a high school stud, but this video made me realize how revolutionary he really was. Beating the Olympic Champion in high school is no joke. Solid video man. Keep them coming. I’d love to see Evan Jager.
He beat not only the gold and silver medalist from previous year Olympics but Jim Grelle who was the current US mile record holder at the time
Had 1968 Olympics not been at altitude Ryun would have won the gold.
Maybe, but if Keino could do 3min 34 sec at altitude, Jim would have had to have broken his own world record to beat him at sea level, and the Ryun of 1968 wasn't as good as the Ryun of 1967. However, the fact that we were denied a great - and fair - race is down to the stupidity of the Olympic committee.
@@musik102 Yes, Ryun was still feeling the effects from mono and an injured hamstring!! Nobody from any era could've beat Keino in the 1500m at Mexico (8216 ft above
sea level) in "68". However; in 1967 Ryun was untouchable!!!!
Keep in mind that Ryun ran the last 100m in 11.6 and the last 400m in 50.6 at Dusseldorf, W.Germany in 1967!! Jim had a better kick than either Seb Coe or Dave Wottle!!
Had Ryun ran the 800m at Mexico in the "68" Olympcs he would've won Gold!!
Ryan at his best was incomparable, epic. Untouchable at his best. But in the Olympics a hard luck guy like Pre. Pre was is justly a legend but in reality Ryan was a far better runner. Inspite of injury and illness in 1968 had he chosen to focus on the 800 I think he would have won. Altitude was much less of a factor at that distance. Keino was as lucky as Ryan was unlucky. There's always a if but had the 68 games been at or near sea level and Ryan moderately healthy it may have been Jim Ryan the legend today. But he is a legend in my book .
His word records times for the Mile and 1500m were incredible for his age.
The track Ryun ran on at the Kansas HS state meet was probably a cinder track, not a concrete track.
Clearly it was not concrete. Dirt or cinders.
Regarding the Snell race. Jim had finished third to Snell not long before this race and Jim realised that, against Snell, you can't leave your finishing kick until the last 200m, and so Jim ran very hard from the bell, and that allowed him to win the race. However, it should be noted that Peter not at his best in 1965.
We idolized Ryan in HS. My next door neighbor in Scotch Plains, NJ broke Jim Ryan's HS indoor mile record of 4:07.2 by running 4:06.6 in 1972 in Princeton NJ which stood for 43 yrs. Scotch Plains also home of Renaldo Skeets Nehemiah SPFHS 77
Alan Webb ran a 3:59 indoor mile in High School & 4 months later he shattered Ryun's High School Outdoor Mile record by running a 3:53.4 mile which was won by El-G at the Prefontaine Classic Track & Field Championships.
Tom Hunt also ran an indoor high school mile time of 4:02.7 in 1976.
Great video. His 1965 Kansas State Meet 3:58 Mile was certainly not on a concrete track. It was cinder. Basically equivalent to running a 3:54 Mile on a modern synthetic track. And this was 55 years ago in a high school meet, having to lead start to finish! His 1965 AAU 3:55 Mile was run on an asphalt-composite track however called Grass-Tex.
In the 1965 AAU Championship against Peter Snell, the leader going into the last lap was Jozef Odlozil of Czechoslovakia. That particular race was run on an asphalt track (one of the first all-weather types of tracks). Ryun preferred dirt tracks, actually. There is a great book on Ryun -- "The Jim Ryun Story" by Cordner Nelson.
I stole that book from the library in 8th grade. That year I ran my first mile race and won with a time of 5:38...that number should ring a bell.
That race is also where the comparison ends...
(And I returned the book many years later)
Ryun was coached by Jack Daniels around the 1968 Mexico City olympics. The games were held at altitude and they knew that going out at a normal pace would kill them later in the race, so ryun planned to stay at the back and kick with a lap to go. Kip keino lived and trained at altitude in kenya, so he was accustomed to the conditions and wasn't affected like the other athletes. Under those conditions, ryun ran as well as he could've. This is also why the games were never held at altitude after 1968
I was coached by Jack Daniels too. Every time I drink it my mouth starts running.
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
Excellent analysis!!
I wish readers would remember that runners up to 1980 had to work regular jobs to support themselves. Jim Ryun had to work. He was married. AAU got the money not Ryun, when they entered him in races. Running in Europe via your running agent did not happen then. Many top milers in later years respected guys like Elliott Snell and Ryun...and knew their kicks were equal of any runner through years....no drugs either Mr Viren (blood doping)
Anyway..complete nonsense criticizing our best ever miler
Jim had a better kick than Seb Coe!! Ryun was clocked at 11.6 sec in the last 100 meters in the 1500m and 50.6 sec in the last 400m in Dusseldorf, West Germany in 1967!!
There is no evidence that Lasse Viren ever blood doped - that is a lazy statement.
If you thought Pre's training regimen was insane, Jim Ryun's is pure madness
His coach was stupid
Great analysis. I grew up seeing him on Wide World Of Sports on TV, and of course the Olympics. My first track race was in 1973 and I ran 4:59 for the mile and couldn't comprehend running a minute faster than that. We all read "The Jim Ryun Story" and were flabbergasted by his workouts. I agree about his impeccable running form.
The 2nd place kid in the state meet was his teammate, trying to "help" him with pace. His splits were like 1:59/2:17 and he still got 2nd. It was around 100 degrees in the shade, probably 110+ on the track.
NO ONE ever handled Snell like that over the last 300 of any race. Watch the 1500 final of the '64 Olympics and you will be ammazed. I think this race in CA kind of slammed the door on Snell's great career. The third place runner was Jim Grelle, who would have been well-known if it weren't for the kid from Kansas.
Freestyle Wow thank you for that awesome information! I really appreciate it. It’s so great to hear from someone who knows so much about Jim Ryun. It really is amazing just how fast he was at such a young age. Best of running to you my friend! And thanks for the comment.
The first video shown is his 3:33.1 1500m world record in Los Angeles -- his 3:51.1 mile was run at Bakersfield about two weeks earlier.
I have to wonder why Jim Ryun never ran a paced race to break 3:50. Roger Bannister recruited not one, but two pacers to aid his quest for breaking the four-minute barrier. Ryun ran a 351.1 leading the race virtually from the start. He ran a 3:33.1 in the 1500 devasting Kip Keino with what many remembered to be a 51-second bell lap. Coe, Ovett, and Cram used rabbits all time. and find it strange Ryun never did. I think 3:48 was definitely in his reach and maybe faster.
The "mile" video is of his 1500 WR vs Keino in 1967. Note that they start on the backstretch. The HS mile was on cinder, dirt or clay--note the chalk lines and the puffs of track surface that follow each stride.
Good video. Additional comment regarding '68 Olympics , Mexico City , high altitude, the Kenyans took advantage of it psychologically and just buried that first 800 meters.
One must mention how the high altitude affected sea level athletes..especially big guys like Ryun and Bodo Tummler
I believe in regard to Mexico city that Keino later said he considered Ryun to have run the greatest race of all time given that he was a sea level person running a race at extreme altitude.
hells yeah, today everyone trains at altitude ⛰️🏞️
Keino beat Jim at Mexico City in 1968 due to Jim not being trained at altitude. He also was trained quite hard by the coaches at Kansas U. At the '68 Olympics Kip Keino trained at a similar altitude in Kenya his entire life which was a huge advantage. Also, two Kenyans teamed together to help Kip win that race. Ryan, under the circumstances actually ran a great race in Mexico City.
Later in life one of the kenyas apoligized to Ryan that they had teamed up to target him specifically.
He was my idol as a high school miler. Truly incredible performances as a teenager and young man.
In high school I ran distance on dirt, cinder, rubberized asphalt, and rubber. Temperature and humidity/rain make a huge difference as do shoes. Hats off to Ryun and all young runners who compete in tough conditions. And then there is cross country. Loved those long spikes.
The US athlete who really helped push the last lap kick in 3rd video of Ryun edging Snell was Jim Grelle who set American Mile Record week before
He was my hero. Thank you.
It's always interesting discussing/debating who was the "best" 1500m/Mile runner of all time. (Just up to say 1972. Leave out the transition to better tracks and professionalism of post 1972) I'm a Kiwi so could be called biased towards Snell... BUT my pick for "Best" is clear: It is the great Australian Herb Elliot. He lost a race at 1 mile when he was aged 14 then, after that, he WAS NEVER BEATEN OVER 1500m or the mile FOR THE REST OF HIS CAREER. As an adult he never lost and retired as World Record holder and Olympic gold medalist. No one has come close to that statistic.
Wow. I must admit I did not know that. I'll have to look into him. Thanks for the comment!
and he did it barefoot lol
John Wilson, He retired before anybody would beat him. He did not give chance to the upcoming challengers. If he did, he would have been beaten by Snell, Jazy and after by a Wichita high school boy.
@@xxthatpookieeditsxx Each of these incredible runners had their "prime years where they were unbeatable!! Ryun's prime years were "66" & "67" and Keino was unbeatable in the 1500m in the "68" Olympics at altitude in Mexico. Keino was suffering from gallstones / agony. Kip always seemed to peak at the Olympics. He ended up with 2 Gold Medals & 2 Silver Medals from the "68" and "72 Olympic games.
John Wilson..The greatest miler trophy might go to a Kiwi. To Sir John Walker who ran the one mile under 4 minutes more than 100 times...
Schnell can't be because the 17 or 18 years old Ryun beat him.
Eliot retired very soon, he was 22?
One thing is for sure..No one miler run the last 300m for 38.1 after clocking 2 minutes 55 seconds the first 1200 meter. Jim Ryun did it..
On dirt track. That's why he is my favorit and because when I was a wannabe one miler he was at his peak. I was 13 and I had a poster in my bedroom of Jim Ryun being at the finish line
and written on: 3:33:1 on cinder track.
I was 20 when I got below the 4 minute mark and that was it for my carrier. I could never beat Jim but I beat Sir Bannister in 1976.
Who was the greatest miler? It depends on wich way we look at it.
Iconic is the word that comes to mind.
What a beast
Dude's head wobble made him Jim Ryun. Lols, dude ran Midwestern Winters in thick ass running gear and a freakin' scarf 🧣 THAT'S OLD SCHOOL RESPECT
Do roger bannister
Yes please
Please do Toshihiko Seko, he's one of the greatest marathoners. His commitment to running is only matched by a select few.
I've only seen one book on running in Japan that was in English. It would be nice to see something about the women marathoners from Japan that have won Olympic Gold. Just got back from Asaka (in Saitama Prefecture) and ran along the river there every morning and saw lots of runners of all ages going pretty fast.
I wonder if he had some sort of natural advantage? I know secretariat had a heart 1.5 times the size of a normal horse's heart. I read recently that the philippine boxer is 40 something and still beat opponents because he can maintain a heart rate max of over 200 beats a minute, thus more cardiac capacity when needed.
Manny Pacquiao
Ryun was built perfectly for a miler!! If Jim had another HS & College Track Coach he would've run much faster in the long run!! Timmons burnt Jim out with his insane interval work! My guess is he had the same talent that Seb Coe had and had Peter Coe, Jack Danielson or Salazar coached Ryun and brough him along slowly he would've run much faster and had a longer track career!!
There are several points that I feel could improve his overall score. The time historically in which he competed. Dealing with amateurism in the USA. You mention equipment and that cement track. Being a highschooler competing globally. But really despite amateurism, the reason he had a reputation as a competitor is that he was a pioneer. Being the first has to count ten-fold, support system and science of physiology (not to mention PED's) and the duration of records holding up. Tiger Woods and Lebron James were in money sports that support the media and still are behind him.
I like your thoughts, and yes, he certainly was a pioneer! Even by today's standards his times are competitive, and yet he ran in the 1960's, and many of his performances were as an amateur. I may find a way to incorporate a ranking category that involves the breaking of new territory, or "pioneer" status as you mentioned. Thanks for the insightful comment. And thanks for watching the video as well.
Good video. However, the clip you show in which Ryun demolishes Keino was not the 3:51.1 record (at Bakersfield) but the 3:33.1 1500m record at L.A.
Note: All of Jim Ryun’s high school records were on dirt(cinder, concrete, dirt) Next Level Legend.
The 1965 AAU Championship start of the last lap is Rick (?) Romo Texas, then Ryun, Snell and Jim Grelle. Consider that Ryun's records were on cinder, aka dirt, tracks you need to take at least one second off his 880 and 2 seconds of the mile.
He was a good student of the events and knew that over the last 5 years no one had overcome Snell in the last lap. That's why the big surge. At Mexico he had a very short training window recovering from mono. At the time no one understood the tremendous advantage that the Kenyans and Ethiopians had. Ryun ran at a pace that he considered would bring a win. If you watch the last lap he gains on Kieno on every step.
Then there are the restrictions of the day. He had to support himself. If you were a high school coach you were ineligible to compete at the Olympics.
In 1967 at Dusseldorf he annihilated two of the biggest kickers of the day Bod Tummler and Harold Norpoth. There is much debate about his last lap time but most experts agree that it was most likely below 50 seconds, maybe even under 49, with a slow first turn. Possibly the best true runner but tactically challenged as the world caught up.
In the 1965 AAU Championship against Peter Snell, the leader going into the last lap was Jozef Odlozil of Czechoslovakia -- it was a year later when Rick Romo paced him to his first mile world record. That particular race was run on an asphalt track (one of the first all-weather types of tracks). Ryun preferred dirt tracks, actually. Great book on Ryun -- "The Jim Ryun Story" by Cordner Nelson.
I’m pretty sure that first race with Keino is his 3:33.1 1500.
Ryun was was EIGHTEEN at his 1965 state meet, not 17. The runner finishing second is Mike Petterson, a teammate of Ryun who kept with Ryun as long as he could to help him achieve his a goal of a sub 4 mile in a high school meet. In the Mexico City Olympics Ryun's tactics were dictated by the high altitude where less oxygen negatively impacts distance runners who don't live at high altitude like Ryun who was beat by a high altitude runner. Ryun had falls in races, most significantly, as you note, the 1972 Olympic semi-final but he often had problems, getting knocked off balance or into the infield, due to bad balance. This was due to an ear infection as a child.
Very good sir! It's nice to hear knowledgable track & field fans from Ryun's era that understand the basics of altitude and that jim was still recovering from mono and a strained hamstring at mexico.
@@richardmilliken5651 At his best Ryun ran 3:33.1, what would that be worth at Mexico? What would Keino have run at sea level? Timmons was a army drill instructor. I'm sure he destroyed some careers but without him Ryun would never have run his high school times. I'm not judging that good or bad, just saying.
I'm from Bakersfield CA. The year Ryun broke the WR in the 1mile he set it at Bakersfield College Memorial Stadium in 1967. I think he broke it a month or two before I was born on August 22, 67. Ryun was an incredible athlete. I met him in B and he was as cool a fellow as you could ever want to meet.
I would give him a 9 rather than just an 8 in the Championships category. In 1968 the Kenyans used Ben Jipcho as a rabbit to ease the way for Kip Keino to time his move almost perfectly to get enough of a lead so that Kip could survive Jim’s kick. I still wonder why Jim’s coaches didn’t prepare him better for that Kenyan strategy. Furthermore, Jim was at a considerable disadvantage compared to the Kenyans at Mexico City’s altitude.
As a Kenyan, watching the excuses people make for Kip Keino smoking Ryun is ridiculous. Kip Keino had ran the 5K and had to drop out of the 10K with 2 kilomètres to go because he apparently had gall stones. The race against Ryun was his 6th race and he beat him by a ridiculous distance! He was literally told not to run that race yet still smoked a very fresh faced Ryun who only ran 1500m. Kip Keino ran everything from the 1500 to Steeple chase in his career...
Very nice presentation. Ryun was an inspiration for many runners including me. You should have mentioned that Ryun a fantastic runner even while he was dealing with his asthma. I first learned about Ryun from an article that claimed that he took up distance running to help deal with his asthma. The fact that he had asthma makes his accomplishment all the more impressive.
I think it is important to note that Mexico City’s altitude was a deciding factor in how well Jim ran the final for the 1500 m. He won a silver medal against a man who was born and lived in altitude. Jim ran a tactical race to finish in top 3!
The 3:55 mile he ran in high school, he beat Peter Snell Gold madalist n world record holder...with Ryn and Snell was Jim Grelle the current US mile record holder and broke that race open. The 2nd place high school miler when Ryun ran 3:58 was Ryun's high school teammate a 4:10 miler...12 sec behind Ryun
No mention of Dusseldorf Germany when Ryun blew Germans off track w solo 36.4 300 m final kick
Or final 1200 of 2:46 in WR 1500.
Certainly as good as any runner
you scored him perfectly, great commentary, thx
JIm Ryan could have run .3.43 in the modern era. He'd have trained better.
But would he have to change his name from Ryun to Ryun?
By the way...jims final 1200m in his 1500m race point to 3:45-6 pace. Everyone knew Ryun could run that but he had no one to help
F, Yes, I agree, he was the perfect running machine.
Could Jim have competed against all the doped up runners like H.El G., Ngeny, Morcelli, and Ngeny!! How can you compete against EPO & HGH & Steroid fueled runners??
Lagat??when he competed for Kenya?
Analyze Billy Mills please! His Olympic 10000 finish was the finish that Pre wanted in the ‘72 5000 but could t muster. Mills was other worldly in that race.
you didn't mention one item which made Ryun a great distance runner in his era. He was basically a sprinter who moved up to longer distance , he ran 100 (yards) in 10.3 seconds and had run the 220 in 22+ seconds.
When Australia's Herb Elliott broke the WR for the mile in 1958, he bettered the previous record by 2.7 seconds. When he took the 1500 WR he beat the previous by 2.1 seconds. He retired at 22 y.o.undefeated over the mile with 36 wins from 36 races.
I can understand Americans supporting their own champions but they do often get carried away and often make absurd claims along the lines of "best ever" without considering the records of non-Americans
Amen to that. Also the bad ass Kiwi, Walker, collected Sub4s like 'baseball cards' ;-)
Thanks for this great channel !
You asked who was the second place runner in Ryun's 1965 high school state meet, that was Mike Petersen from Ryun's high school, in the race to help Ryun break 4.
Peterson ran 4:10mile his senior year as Ryun's teammate.
@@michaeladrian2210 Yes, I know, 4:10.8 actually, but that wasn't the question asked.
@@aldopedroso6212 The ? is how many runners got injured or quit track & field under Coach Timmons?? I can't even imagine doing 40 x 440yd intervals in the afternoon after running 5-8 miles in the morning!! I was doing 20 x 440yd intervals, slightly quicker at between 64sec - 66sec with a 90 second rest and running 0 miles in the morning@HS.
Jim was running 100 mile weeks in HS and i was running 40 - 50 miles during the 70's. We thought we were running a lot during the summers before XC season and in reality our 60 miles/ week were half of what Eric Hulst & Jeff Nelson was running during the summer! I guess that's why i ran 9:12 in the 2 mile / HS and Nelson ran 8:36 in HS and held the national 2 mile record. Salazar was smoking me in XC, HS Meets.
According to the book, "The Jim Ryun Story," he was sick while running the mile in the 68 Olympics.
Idk if this makes sense but Matthew Boling kind of reminds me of a sprinter version of Jim Ryun, down to the stride.
Great video dude! Keep up the good work! Jim Ryun is a very inspiring person. Thank you for making this video!
I love these videos bro, they show a true passion for the sport.
Please analyze zerzrnay tadese next
It’s here!
great, great Jim Ryun... one of the best milers ever - just behind Elliott, Snell, Keino, Walker, Coe, Ovett, Cram, Morcelli, El G and few others (such as Jacob). For sure, one of best 20 milers EVER!
I think Ryun had as much ability if not more than any of those you have mentioned if you look at his world records as a 19/20 year old, which the others couldn't match at the same age. He was unfortunate to compete in Mexico at altitude and then fall in his heat in Munich. With better coaching he would have carried on for longer and lowered the Mile and 1500m records but Timmons ran him into the ground with his monster interval training.
As a high schooler he beat the Olympic champion Peter Snell in a time of 3:55, at a time when the mile record was only two seconds faster at 3:56. That would be like a high schooler beating Ingebritsen in a 3:45.
Was Gene McLain in the 1965 race with Ryun? I was a walk on at KU in 1983 and Jimmy was running with us. My dad ran at KU in the 1950s.
also, as far as range, this is back in the day when they weren't dopers like the guys you mentioned...young guys now, it's so sad, because, unlike the 60's and 70's, most fans look up to dopers....there are no more Pre's, Gerry Lindgresn!!!!!!!, no Jim Ryun's,.......no Billy Rodgers......though now Salazar became a doper proponent, it's truly sad............
So proud to live in Wichita!
Can I make a suggestion on the scoring range? Since you are focusing on elite runners, it is kind of pointless to have everything squashed in the 90-100 range.
To that effect, I would recommend "zooming in" your scoring by compressing the range of of each category in 1-5, or even better 1-3.
This will make differentiations much more meaningful and -- also -- you will give yourself permission to be more aggressive in rating people more accurately without seeming 'disrespectful' even if it's subconsciously. You ARE looking at the best of the best and the comparison is really amongst them so you want to have better delineation.
It is a beautiful stride. A work of art. The only other runner like that, for me, is Evan Jager. Loping along like a gazelle.
comparing Jim Ryan to H Geb or Bekele is silly HG and Bekele are 10k and 5k runners. Ryan was a miler.
Yes, Ryun would've won the 800 meters in the "68" Olympics easily!!!!
Jim Ryun was a truly great miler, most definitely one of the greatest ever (and certainly the greatest ever US miler). But was he the greatest of all time in the world? Impossible to say, not least because it’s difficult to compare different eras. Gounder Hagg, Roger Banister (whose training was minimal btw), Herb Elliot, Steve Ovett, Seb Coe, among others, could all make a claim to be the GOAT miler.
1:44.9 is a half mile which translates to 1:44.3 or 1:44.1.
Ben Jipcho rabbited Keino going out in 56 and Keino took over at the 700m mark.
First off, loved the coverage of Ryun and wished you would have compared his running style from his prime in 1965 to his last stand, no pun intended, in the 1972 trials before he was tripped. Ryun actually ran a 3:52 mile in the Toronto Mail Meet before the trials, so he was in damn good shape. You take away tactical points from Ryun for his performance in the 1500 at Mexico City, but miss two points I think are quite important. First, the race was run at 7,000 feet of altitude, perfect for Keino and not so much for sea level athletes such as Ryun. Second, the Kenyans delegated Ben Jipcho as Keino's pace horse to get out quick to keep the past fast and let Keino draft off him in the early going because they feared Ryun's legendary kick. This is acceptable in regular meets, but not the games, and when Ryun was later running on the pro track circuit Jipcho apologized to him for being a pace horse and regretted his actions.
Didn’t kip Keino have gall stones and he also had ran the 8 of the 10K and 5K before the 1500? I mean come on... Not to mention the heats he ran to qualify for the finals of these races. All at high altitude! This was Kip Keino’s 6th race!!
@@rimun5235 My comment was aimed at Ryun's tactical score suffering because of this race. He trained at altitude with coach Jack Daniels and when he first arrived could not break a 4:20 mile. Six weeks later Daniels estimated he had a 3:36 effort in him which is exactly what he ran. Six weeks does make up for a lifetime at altitude. Ryun simply did not have the background training to beat Keino at the 7,000 feet of Mexico City. At sea level he owned him. Ryun's loss was due to Keino's talent, Jipcho's early pacing, and the altitude - not poor tactics.
@@rimun5235 Yes, Keino was in a great deal of pain from his gallstones and he ended up dropping out of the 10K as a result. Kip was advised from his Dr. not to run the 1500m
final. At the same time, Ryun was still recovering from mono and a strained hamstring. Henceforth; neither runners were 100% and obviously Keino had a severe advantage between racing at altitude and with Jipcho setting a fast steady pace in an effort to burn the other runners out at altitude. Kip had a talent for peaking at the Olympic games and i firmly believe that he was in the zone of zones when he ran a perfect race at altitude in the 1500m at the Mexico Olympic Games in"68"! Nobody from any era would've beat Keino in the 1500m that day!! It was pure magic, "Poetry in Motion", just like Coe at the "84 Olympic Games", just like Ryun in Dusseldorf, W.Germany when Jim ran the last 100m in 11.6 in that 1500m race! That was even faster than Coe's best, last 100m in 12.2! Ryun was a complete animal in 1967! Untouchable IMHO!!~~~
Ryun was my hero back then because i couldn't wrap my head around beating Snell in the mile when i was in HS. Jim was the greatest HS Athlete of alltime!!
Jim Ryun was sick with an ear infection during his second, I believe, Olympic. He never fully recovered from a young eardrum injury resulting in middle ear problems.
Jim Ryan was my hero, I’m 70 years old so when I say Ryan was my hero, I mean it.
Extremely, very, amazing, incredible. Speaking is so much more effective if you remove most if not all of such words. It’s illogical to describe as incredible something that has actually happened.
Picky I know but this is an extreme example though i still found it an enjoyable video to watch.
You gotta end every sentence of this video with “...on ciders!”
learn your track history. the 1968 Olympic were at Mexico City nobody understood anything about high altitude effect on distance performance at the time. Especially the corrupt Olympic committee who was only concerned about their benefits. Jim Ryun was still recovering from mononucleosis early that year. Keino had two advantages. He was from Kenya obviously but more importantly he had years of competitive experience at altitude. His winning time remained a career PR, was the 2nd fastest of all time at that point and remained the OR for 4 Olympiad. It was an outstanding performance and Ryun would have been hard put even at sea level. 1972 was a disaster his 3:52.1 mile was entered as a 1500 meter qualifying time. He should have never been in that heat. But his tendency to pass on the turn was his true undoing and we will never know.
Excellent analysis!! Interesting fact about Jim Ryun falling down was that Howard Cossell filed Jim's appeal to get him admitted in the final but was turned down by the corrupt Olympic committe.
@@richardmilliken5651 Ryun was also in the wrong heat. His 3:52.4 mile was entered as his fastest 1500 time.
Can you score Steve Prefontaine?
Firstly, his 1:44.9 was for 880 yards not 800 metres.
Secondly, the first video is not from a world record mile but his 3:33.1 1500 world record from 1967.
You suggest Ryun did not know how to train; what grounds have you for making such a ridiculous statement?
mark Bateman If I did say that I certainly didn’t mean it. I have a book that discusses his training and I was blown away at how well he trained. I would even say he may have overtrained, at least for the mileage he ran as a junior athlete. So, no I certainly don’t think ryun “didn’t know how to train.” If you could point out where I said that I’d appreciate it so I can avoid making a similar mistake in the future.
We now know in hindsight that Jim Ryun was overtrained as a H.S & College Runner. Coach Timmon's was a swim coach before he started coaching track & field and as a result he had Jim and the rest of the middle distance runners doing monster interval training. Ryun was doing 40x 440yd / 24 x 880yd interval training in the afternoon as well as running 5 miles under 6min /mile in the morning before school. We now know that you need easy recovery day workouts to make maximize adaptation when training intensely/hard workouts. Jim Ryuns immunity system was breaking down and he was getting injured a lot after 1967. Obviously Ryun hit his peak years between 1966 - 1967, when he set all of his world records in the 800m, 880yd, 1500m, and mile and the american 2 mile record. Ryun had mono 3 different times, he developed asthma & hay fever allergies.
Jim hit his absolute prime by 1967 at 20 years of age and he was inconsistent after that. He ran a great 1500m race at the "68" Olympic games at altitude against Keino.
Kip had a huge advantage in that race as he lived and trained at altitude his whole life. Ryun paced himself and didn't fall for Jipsho's rabbit pace!!
@@richardmilliken5651Agree with a lot of what you say - but a lot of those 440s and 880s were run at relatively slow paces. Today we would call them Tempo efforts rather than hard intervals. A lot of the 880s were run in the 2:20 -2:30 range.
That kid from Sweden top the 'high school only' 3;58? Jorgesten or something, he has older brother, both beasts. Not sure what kind of invitational, but he has a 3;53 i think. Either way kudos to anyone ANYONE that can break 4. I was a solid athlete and ran xcountry and barely broke 5 once. This shit is amazing and thanks for the videos!
Jakob Ingebrigsten
Unless the new high school mile records are run on a cinder track, Jim Ryan should still be keep the number 1/ best high school miler in history.
If the new guys can beat his record on a cinder track then they deserve to be number 1 and passing Jim Ryan. Yes today's athletes have far better shoes, but a cinder track is a real disadvantage to speed.
you dont seem to know your history, that well. jim ryun lost to keino in mexico city because the air was so thin. many of the milers could not even finish.
Ryun was 18 when he ran his HS only 4 minute mile.
Ryuns 880 yard's time means he ran 1:44'1/144'2 800 metres SURLEY !!!!!!!!
1:43.3 is usual time they caught him at 800m...tying WR for m
@@michaeladrian2210 You mean 1:44.3 at 800m during Ryun's 1:44.9 880 yard world record. It took Ryun 0.6 seconds (only accurate to tenths of a second, not to hundreths) to run the extra 4.672 meters (almost 5.11 yards) from 800 meters to 880 yards (1:43.34 880 yard pace for the extra 4.672 meters but if actual hundreths of a second were available this would vary).
I think you should have included the blazing final 300m (36.4) against kicker Bodo Tummler, Jim Grelle and Norpoth in Dusseldorf Germany in 1967.
All 4 runners together before 300 m mark left in 1500m race and his 36.4 300m finish beat all the rest by 4 seconds..3:37 to 3:42. My ex coach was the great Jim Grelle in that race.
RUclips Ryun Dusseldorf
Dave wottle, david bedford, and juha vataanen
Please do Kip Keino.
And...........what was a big reason for his kick???? Nice trick???....did you get it yet???............ARMS!!!...."we did a lot of weights and cables in between intervals", they had weights on the track!! and between 30-40 400's!!!!! they would do weights after 10 or so, etc......he has always stated, I kicked so well, cause my arms were so well trained
Do Steve Ovett. He is in the top 3 or 4 milers of the 20th century.
Keino only beat Ryun once having been blown off track in every race against Keino....his WR 1500m his final 3 laps averaged 55 sec 2:46...1200m....not done by anyone for years
You guys are nuts
Was Ryun's 3:51.1 run on a dirt track?
Paavo Nurmi
Craig Mottram
Noah Ngeny
Sydney Maree
Augustine Choge
Said Aouita
Joshua cheptegei and his world record!
1968 Olympic's was not a failure Ryun. He got a silver medal.
But the video doesn't even mention a few facts of Ryun vs Keino in Mexico City.
Jim suffered from attack of mono just preceding the Olympics. Ask Seb Coe how long it took him to recover. Then the race itself was at 7,382 ft...not sea level of Kansas. Keino lived n trained higher than 7,000 ft.
Add to this Keino's 5ft 8in, 146lb frame is lighter and more suited to high altitude than Ryun's much heavier and denser 6ft 2 in, 168 lb . Thus altitude works against big milers such as Ryun and Bodo Tummler of Germany (watch you tube of Ryun in Dusseldorf Germany against Tummler) 3rd place in Mexico City .
These two had more challenge as big men at altitude.
Now Keino had one pre-race tactic, I believe. He must have tried various races against Ryun. Waiting til final 300m to kick (that failed) to taking off with 1200m left (Ryun finished last 1200m in 2:47) so in Mexico who knew he had to go from start.
Now Keino had very bad stomach pain and knew that Ryun's kick could be compromised with altitude so he took up the challenge and went from the start. Keino did fantastic job. Ryun, learning from training in Colorado as to how hard altitude would be on his racing form started race with that experience behind him. He ran faster than he thought he could. Read Dr Jack Daniels story about Ryun at altitude.
Would he have raced differently at sea level....of course.
Ryun and athletes of that era can't be compared with athletes such as Coe n El G because they didn't have financial resources to just train.
That makes a difference
6 world records? should be higher. also, super iconic, at least in USA
THE FIRST RUNNING CLIP WAS NOT THE MILE RUN BUT THE LA OLYMPICS 400M RACE
10
Do Zatopek soon.
Emil was a great and beautiful man. I was profoundly blessed to spend time as his house guest in 1990 Prague. He VERY special
Mike Peterson, his teammate sacrificed his own race to push Jim.
I have qualified for zero Olympics so far. However, I am still only 51!
Jim Ryun was one of my heroes growing up, a great great runner BUT he was not the greatest high school athlete, Bob Mathias was. Bob won the decathlon at the age of 17 and two months out of high school. The decathlon is considered the toughest track and field event so I pick Bob Mathias, Ryun second.
Jakob ingrebristen is comparable
Jakob , for his age, is already an amazing runner. If he continues improving he could break mile and 1500 m world records. But he isn't winning the big races he is entering. He's still learning. So, NO, he doesn't compare to the great Herb Elliot.
Ryun's first year running ever as a soph in high school...
Cross Country..5:38 mile
Track: 4:06 or 4:07....less than 10 months...so NOT comparable
@@johnwilson5743 Jakob just won the Gold Medal at the Tokyo Olympics in the 1500m in a new olympic record time of3:28. He will break the world record in the 1500m and the 5K.
It may seem like Ryun was over trained in high school because he would come home from practice fall on his bed and sleep until the next morning. This made him very strong. Sounds rediculous to alot of mothers and his own, but its commitment.
We now know in hindsite that Ryun was overtrained to say the least in HS & College!! Coach Timmons ended up destroying Jim's immunity system by his insane interval work and not enough easy recovery days to make the proper adaption to increasing intensity workouts in a sensible manner like Seb Coe, Ovett, Cram H.El G., Ngeny, Lagat,Beks,Geb, & Kipchoge, Rupp and Kessler. Ryun was still recovering from mono and a strained hamstring during the "68" Olympics. If Jack Danielson had trained Ryun during the 60's, JIm would've run faster, healthier and had a longer & happier track career.