If you believe in Arminian doctrine, can you be saved?
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- Опубликовано: 30 май 2019
- Arminian beliefs may not be heretical, but they remain serious errors. From one of our live Ask Ligonier events, W. Robert Godfrey explains why Arminianism is unstable theology.
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It is a very small part of the Church that sees the Church as divided into Calvinists or Arminians. Most believers in parts of the world where the Church is growing quickly today, such as Iran, China, India, Nepal, etc. are focused on the gospel and have to face persecution for their faith. Most believers when we get home to glory will never have heard of John Calvin, but will be preoccupied by Jesus Christ.
“Calvinism” does not originate with John Calvin. So even if they have not heard of John Calvin they will most certainly be “calvinists”
I will tell you something , it doesn't matter how much we study the Bible , we won't understand the Bible completely.
Amen
Such a compromising thing to say
I understand enough to know that the reforners was 100% right about their doctrines , the problem are the armininans .Look what arminianism has produced , the most carzy insane cults like the pentecostals, JW , Mormons etc what do they all have in common? they have arminian doctrins . The Bibel is very clear the problem is unlearned people with a bibel in their hands will always distort the Word of God, thats why the reformers wrote down the key doctrines to protect the church from herecy but ofcourse the devil always comes and distort the truth.
Uh huh
Thanks for stating your opinion on an old debate.
Of course, the Church has always been marked by differences of opinion and disagreements on matters of theology. Nothing new here. Calls of heresy abound to this day.
Yet, Christians are called to focus on what unites us as brothers and sisters in Christ rather than what divides us into opposing camps. I think pride and self-righteousness in the Church is the problem. Why is it that the Church, we Christians, cannot seem to come to the point of admitting that we do not see everything perfectly and that some of our personal theological ideas may be flawed or even in error?
Thank you for having a non biased approach when discussing this subject.
If you CHOOSE to follow God then he has CHOSEN you. End of debate.
Not if you believe you chose Him, and are ignorant that He alone does the choosing. That makes you believed to be saved and justified on the basis of your election (choosing) and not God alone’s determination. Therefore you have *works* and no grace. (Ro. 11:5-6;4:4)
@@chiefadventures9960 listen I would be a Calvinist like I assume you are but I guess I just wasn’t PREDESTINED to be one! Ba-dum-tsk! 😅😂
Pretty much. God writes into your story “you chose me” because he knows you will if he were to just go hands off on this and let you. Therefore if you’ve chosen to follow God then he has indeed chosen you
@@chiefadventures9960 let’s talk about works shall we? What are works? Good deeds? The opposite of sin? Ok, how is *deciding* to do something in your mind a work? That’s a thought, a decision that necessarily MUST come before any action.
@@christianbruce2990 thankfully it’s not a heresy to be arminian when it’s full blown 🙏🏼
Preach Christ
The whole Christ
To the Glory of Christ
And let God be God.
Amen.
:) u Calvy! AGAPÉ
Solí DÉO Gloría
What Christ will you preach? Do you say "Christ died for you! Accept him!"?
If that's the case...then you have outlined your theology...Christ died for every human who ever lived.
If you preach "Christ died to save sinners! Repent and believe the gospel!"
then you have a different theology...Christ died to save His sheep (not the entire humanity)
In case you didn't notice...everyone has a theology...you included...if you say "these two err" then you have pointed to your "new theology" as the truth....whatever mixture you've decided is correct.
It's incredibly ignorant of theology to even say "both are wrong"...
@@rpavich We are all sinners, if you don't say you're a sinner, you have no truth in you
@@rpavich Christ didn’t die in vain.
@@Chirhopher I'd like to agree but don't get it.
This is one of the most balanced and fair answers to the issue of Arminianism I think I’ve heard from Ligonier. I’d like to see this tone displayed more in the conferences, especially in the Q&A sessions which tend towards a kind of self-congratulatory type of Calvinism and a more casual dismissal of Arminianism as if it were heresy. We need to show each other grace.
Great point. I was a former Arminian; didn't know any better; was not taught anything else.
We must understand that salvation is a work of God- whether Arminian, Calvinist. etc. Therefore. salvation is not compromised on either side. However, I do believe that the Calvinist perspective best articulates the gospel. I do believe the Arminian position misrepresents the God of Scripture in regards to his Sovereignty. Blessings!
@@savedby_grace6110
Amen, my brethren, and LORD bless you IN Christ!
Saved By_Grace .... in agreement my friend.
Nicely said.
@Dan Welch
If we could only learn not to give these so-called "trolls" what they're seeking, but give them THE TRUTH of The Gospel instead, we'll soon find them disappearing, or better yet, getting saved. Don't you think?
@Dan Welch
I stopped and thought about it, and you're right, and that's why I suggested that we present them The Gospel instead of what they're seeking. Only our LORD GOD knows whose heart truly belongs to HIM, not us. LORD bless you, Dan
I believe that God is the one first to initiate. We are all dead without the grace of God. We may have free will, but God will still be followed in the end. Armenianism puts God under the mercy of the man.
But that doesn't mean that if you want to be saved, there's a chance you won't be elect. God doesn't choose stuff at random. All has a purpose. The elect hear the call and answer. They hear the gospel, and see it as true, love it, believe it, and follow it. They don't have to get everything at first, nor do they necessarily live perfect lives the moment they hear the call, but they try their best to be Christlike. The non elect are those who hear the gospel, and find it silly and unreasonable. They turn away. If you find yourself everyday thinking about God, and how to please God, you are one of the elect. Those who are non elect will never be able to understand nor embrace the gospel because they are not of God. The elect will grow to learn the gospel. The elect do not care weather they are elect or not.
God will knock at your door. Many are called, but few are chosen. Many hear the word, but few answer the call.
Then there is absolutely no reason to worry about any of it. If you are in - you are in. If you are out - you are out. And wanting to please God has nothing to do with it because you are working off the Total Depravity playbook. You can try to explain a thousand different ways how a person should be motivated to live the Christian life but none of them stand up with Calvinism. God CHOSE to make salvation a synergistic experience - which in no way diminishes His sovereignty.
We should be praying for our brothers and sisters in Christ in Armenia, who are often terribly persecuted!
@@rodrocketon9480 This is why I can't under good Conscience ever have fellowship with your ilk, sadly in your wrongly and unregenerately belief in synergy with salvation. God Chooses whom he wills quickening them to respond irresistibly. All by default are dead in their sins and trespasses and are headed headlong into Hell. You can't see the forest from the trees and do not worship the True God, rightly in division of word and practice. Hope God Draws you before your ultimate destiny.
@@alanmunch5779 Wrong person/people Arminius not Armenian but you seem possibly cheeky?
Hear Hear! don't forget irresistible Grace.
What the Bible says is not determined by theologians as many theologians seem to believe
“I’m writing a book on theology.”
“Oh yeah? What’s in it.”
“The first section is: “Have you ever considered that you might be wrong!””
true but that’s certainly not the motive for many other theologians
It's also not determined by your own feelings on the matter. It's determined by what Scripture says as a whole. Theologians try to figure this out, some do better then others.
you're literally saying nothing
What kinda stupid question is that
1 Corinthians 1:11-13 "My brothers and sisters, some have informed me that there are quarrels among you. What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Luther”; another, “I follow Calvin”; another, “I follow Arminius”; still another, “I follow the pope.” Is Christ divided? Was Luther crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Calvin?"
Nicely done! Can't believe I'm the first to tell you that.
Hello Bill
But pope denies christ.... he is the anti christ....
Doctrine matters could you possibly be pointing out oranges when apples is what truly matters
I see your point here and it’s valid but it’s one think to be a believer and another to be a teacher or pastor of the believers. For the believer we have faith but for the teacher or pastor we must always be ready to defend or respond d to why we hold that belief. The Biblenis not all black and white and often times the gray areas are what divide us and pastors must teach and preach with firm footing and we find that firm footing by working out our faith by rightly dividing the word of truth as Paul instructed Timothy. That’s what the pastoral epistles are so important because it points to a system of way in which we should handle the word of God as teachers and pastors. It’s a difficult life for these leaders as they are bombarded daily by questions and attacks on the faith in which we must respond. Hopefully this makes sense.
The fact that this question exists shows how some Calvinists are so dogmatic about their theology and put it on the same level as the gospel.
No they do not. You just dont know any and dont watch or comprehend anything haha. Obv
So called calvinism is only spiritually discerned after the fact no 1 is saved by calvinism and no 1 chooses to become an actual calvismit. The imitations do not change the fact that Christ came only for the totally depraved helpless sick, something not known by any of us until, as stated, our true rebellion is begun to be revealed to us after reading scripture and being convicted
@@iacoponefurio1915 Ah yes. No one understood Christianity until God sent false prophet John Calvin to tell us the real gospel.
@@MarvelGamer2023no one said that. But then you believe Catholicism is true ?
It's only because predestination factors into our understanding of the gospel. If we stress "free will" then we may be saying implicitly that God favors people who choose Him and they are therefore more worthy. Salvation isn't then suddenly by works to be fair, but it is then about who is more worthy of a relationship with God: the people who somehow are naturally more humble. If you accept predestination, then you know even the humility that it takes to repent is a gift of God, who worked in our lives to bring us to that place (Acts 11:18)
Fundamental error here: We are not saved by believing in Arminian doctrine or in Calvinist doctrine, but by believing im Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ !
True! But if we increase in the knowledge of God we will become “calvinists” which is just a slanderous word for “Bible believing Christians”
@@Scribeintheink go back to the Church fathers. Calvinism was not invented by Calvin but by Saint-Augustine. But he never talked about double predestination. Furthermore, he explained that the apparent predestination is in fact due to God's prescience or foreknowledge. So just trust and obey...
Why is this so important to you people anyway?
That's exactly my question.
Because both cannot be both right. And as Christians we want to study God's Word, discerning right from wrong. Hence why we care.
Because it has everything to do with how we see God and how we see ourselves.
One said it right.
Unfortunately, it is more on how we see God and His Word than how God sees us through His Word. Many choose Hananiah and very few choose the path of Enoch.
Calvinism- continue a sinful “lifestyle” and think they are save.
Arminianism- people pick up their cross daily and follows Jesus
I understand that those who seek stability and comfort in a close-knit theology feel uneasy about too much free will. Free will asks for responsibility, so the possibility of being lured away from the well-guarded flock must be excluded. Deny it as you will, the possibility exists nevertheless.
Well said. I am of the belief that Calvin, who consented to his friend being burned alive because the man did not embrace Calvin's system of theology, developed a system of belief to match his living instead of God's commands.
@@rodrocketon9480 I was very sure that this is the right way to think about Calvin. Then I looked more into it and things looked different. Did he really consent to his friend being burned alive?
google "Fünf Mythen über Johannes Calvin | Evangelium21". If you can't read German I'd try to translate it.
The article helped me a lot to overcome my hatred for Calvinism (I'm much on the Servet line but not totally).
@@NICEFINENEWROBOT The reformed people try to put lipstick on a pig ("Calvin tried to get a more humane execution" yada yada yada) but he went along with it. Listen, when it comes to Calvinism - it is not complicated. If every soul is predestined and God always gets exactly what He wants, then no one should worry about it one way or the other. The ULTIMATE reality is that your life has no meaning - nothing you do changes anything. Everything was decided before you were even born. And this notion that predestination is some grand act of love and grace is ridiculous. In the end, there are just a few questions. Does anything I say, think, or do impact my eternal destiny? The Calvinist must answer "No." So, then you might get into the idea that God can bless or torture you in regards to temporal circumstances, but what kind of God do you end up with if that is the case?
What difference does ones belief make anyway if salvation of the elect is predetermined?
The issue is more of, if you base your Faith that God will finish the work he began in you vs if you put faith “in you letting” and “helping God by your contribution” to finish the work that he began in you.
Also a Calvinist puts his or her faith in God continual work in keeping us saved. A Calvinist believed that God grants you believe and repentance. While an Arminian is on alert because they believe that they can lose their salvation if they stop having trust in God and some Arminian believe that you can lose it if you sin against God and do not repent of your sin. So in some words you can be a faithful Christian and one day you fall into temptation and a bus hits you and kills you before you have a chance to repent, you’ll end up in hell. While in Calvinism, Once you are Gods son, he will not abandoned you, he will chastise you if you sin, just like King David when he committed adultery and murder, King David did not cease being the son of God. Or like the prodigal son who left his father, the father did not say now you are not my son, the prodigal son continued being the son, even while he was in disobedience. Calvinist see the story of the Prodigal son represents the fallen believer, Arminian believe that the story represents fallen humanity. Arminian fail to see that all humanity are not children of God, they are not even considered fallen children of God, they are considered enemies of God in scripture. The Lost sheep in scripture are Gods people, not every human. That is why Jesus tells some unbelieving Jews “ the reason you do not believe me, IS BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT OF MY SHEEP” in John Chapter 10:25 “Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me,”
John 10:25 NIV
www.bible.com/111/jhn.10.25.niv “but you do not believe because you are not my sheep.”
John 10:26 NIV
www.bible.com/111/jhn.10.26.niv It is a gospel Issue, a false Gospel damns people, at the end MANY WILL SAY LORD LORD!! and God will tell them DEPART FROM ME I NEVER KNEW YOU. This speaks of people who thought they had SAVING FAITH, but they put their faith in a false version of the Gospel.
Joseph Mauricio Flores how can God judge righteously those he never elected to be saved?
Mark OnTheBlueRidge if God elected them to be sinners how is that justified? What is the point of John 3:16 then?
Mark OnTheBlueRidge I’ve read romans 9. All Calvinist refer to it all the time. Let me ask you this question, since you didn’t answer my John 3:16. If a person truly repents, believes he is saved by grace through faith yet two month down the road stumbles. Gets angry for the wrong reasons(considered sin) says something he isn’t suppose to, etc. That makes him a sinner again? Or still justified chosen(elect)?
@@thereisnopandemic No Christian believes you're just "helping God by your contribution". That's nonsense.
Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. (Romans 10:9-10) Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. (Mark 16:16) I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life. (1 John 5:13)
Christians believe God, and it's accounted to them as righteousness, just as Abraham did. Whoever does not believe will be condemned. It's that simple. It's what the Bible teaches. Calvinism, is not Christian. Watch this video - ruclips.net/video/jLCqmTc6kvk/видео.html
I think that was a very good answer.
Dear Ligonier, give me a point of doctrine where Arminius did go wrong please. It seems that the Bible is full of warnings to men ergo God is calling upon men...
I thought I understood this until the end - what does Dr. Godfrey mean by “evangelical” as a contrast to heresy? And is he saying that if you believe in a heresy you can’t be saved?
Was this an answer directly from the Word of God or a quote from a sinful man? ..so this is how we judge nowadays what is herecy and what is not?
Imagine a calvinist goes and preaches the gospel to someone and before he starts he tells the guy that (is not your will that God will save you if you are really His) what do you think the guy will say??
Ok my friend next time you proclaim the word of God to someone start first with (it’s not your will to be saved but God will save you if you are really His) and see what will happen
@@davidreynoso4637 You tell them that if their conscience is pricked when you tell them the gospel, and that God is trying to work in them.
Why would you ever start a deep, meaningful, gospel presenting, conversation with systematic theology??
I hold to Calvinist Theology (5 pointed Calvinist) but I do believe that although Arminians are in error, if they are regenerated and washed in the blood of Jesus, they can be saved without even understanding that they were predestined. Everybody I listen to (Sproul, DeYoung, Washer, Lawson, Spurgeon) are all Calvinists bar one, Leonard Ravenhill. He wasn't a Calvinist but there is no way that he was not saved.
Calvinism is anti-biblical. I would urge you to check out Leighton Flowers on RUclips and watch some of his videos to easily see how inconsistent and unbiblical Calvinism is.
At least watch this recent video of his. It points out some important things to consider regarding salvation.
@@christian_gamer_guy6447 I've watched a lot of Mr Flowers and he has not convinced me one bit
@@thomasnorton2679 I'm sorry to hear that.
There is no way Leonhard Ravenhill wasn't truly saved? There is because he believed in a false Christ... Just like Wesley and many other who try so hard. The way is narrow and many will strive to enter the gate, but only few will enter. Do not look to popular beliefs. Look for answers in the Bible.
@Elena Baumann
You're not saved
I find that hard to follow in light of the language of the CoD. "summon back from hell the Pelagian error" (Synod of Dordt, Canon 2 Article 3 in the Rejection of Errors) and many more reference to Pelagian error seem to indicate that they thought about the Remonstrants as heretics.
I lean Calvinist but I do believe we sin freely and choose god freely. God is outside of space and time. We will never understand him 100% here on earth as fallen humans. 👍
All I know is that Peter left his fishing nets, Matthew left his tax collection, and Paul left being Pharisee because they couldn't resist when Christ said, "Come, follow Me!" and they could not explain why they could not resist Him.And that clearly is NOT free will.
Too true 😊 🙏
False! They chose to follow Jesus, out of their own free will
Jesus on the other hand knew his disciples were meek people
@@fkrsnofficial6095 Ok. It surely also proves that you CHOSE to become agitated by my reply.
Thank you Brothers for posting this the grace of the Lord be with you
God instituted free will. It’s all about God.
then you're going to hell
@@moontide76 Your theology is also pathetic. You make God into an evil puppet master who wills the most horrific things ever.
*Can calvinism be a heresy?*
It is heretical, this guy is not honest as pelagian teaching isn't arminian theology..
Many who are not Calvinist aren't necessarily arminian..
That's the issue, and I think many calvinists are dishonest and do this misrepresentation of arminians and their views on purpose..
@Can't Stop God guess you're a pelagian then..
Do you even know what arminians believe in?
@Can't Stop God if you're born again then you read the New testament warnings in the bible about falling away and take them seriously friend, the warnings in Hebrews are there for you and I to heed and not be flippant about and ignore..
@Can't Stop God arminian theology teaches the scriptures, we believe the scriptures when they say that we are made partakers IF we hold onto our confidence till the end Hebrews says chapter 3:14
@Can't Stop God if you don't deny him and remain till the end you will make it, I've met myriads of OSAS antinomian sinning religionists I who thought they could live like the devil and be saved, and its the very same thing I've seen some Calvinists blindly believe in too.
You can ignore the New testament warnings in the bible about falling away to the detriment to your never dying soul if you wish, bi wouldn't recommend it, btw you're not debating you're merely saying something is 'fake' yet fail to do more than rail against it..
Thank God for this because I'm from a FreeWill Baptist Church and they are some real good and I know who are honestly trying to serve God people who go there. Including all of my family. For me it's hard now to go to service there now but there's no Reformed Church's close by.(I've never been to a reformed service)
Freewill Baptists are saved and have good theology, don't buy into the lie that Calvinism saves, it's just not true!!!
@Silver Star and I have and just because I hold to arminian theology doesn't mean I stand condemned.
Lastly you should read what arminians believe in from arminians not double predestinarian anti arminian Calvinist teaching pastors or pelagians who are hijacking non Calvinist Christian thought.
I highly recommend Roger e Olson's arminian theology myths and realities, and what is an arminian by John Wesley.
@Silver Star moreover the antinomian teaching way says to simply believe yet empty fruitless belief means repeat this prayer and you're saved..
No you must have a walk and relationship with God and seek to be more like him, and abide in Christ Jesus, remaining grafted in by faith to the vine..
Read John 15 and Romans 11 sometime.
Don't listen to calvinistic teaching. Watch this video ruclips.net/video/jLCqmTc6kvk/видео.html
@@JC-sj2pd He's at least right about Calvinism.
And yes, God saves, but Calvinism is a false teaching that leads to people being deceived who are trying to seek God. It should be abolished.
The tension arises between these two ways are because human responsibility in salvation is the most corrupt thought even if we are bible believing and say free will or finally a Semipeligian view.
If you think calvinism through all the way, its utter nonsense. Especially considering what the bible actually teaches. Watch this video and see if it hits home at all ruclips.net/video/jLCqmTc6kvk/видео.html
Um , so the answer was.......
Arminians are saved by living faith.
Jesus be glorified
„that if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.“
Romans 10:9
Satan takes 90% truth and 10% error/deception always. What is evangelical Arminianism?
I would ask 'if you believe more in doctrine of men then Scripture can you be saved?' for all the people that quote mere men rather then divine God breathed Scripture
I don’t think many ppl here that comment actually know what theology means.
I’m just glad someone asked this question. I went through a list of books I have and did research on every author. This one particular I am yet to decide on believes Arminian theology. He is also a pastor and divorced. I actually thought his wife had died. Can’t wait for my new books to get here so I can replace the ones I had to throw away.
Salvation is alllll of God chose us, God seeks us , God calls us, God saves and God keeps us, salvation is all of God ) we can’t get ourselves right before him, we are not walking along in life and think oh I’m going to become a Christian, so today I will repent of my sins and get myself right with God, we are dead in our sins and trespasses, we are awakened by the Holy Spirit to our state through which we simply accept Jesus Christ as our saviour and Lord, God does for us what we couldn’t achieve by ourselves, Arminians believe they open the door ) they do only because Gods frypanned them in the head, they are confused.
If we have free will then why would God not expect us to live in it. There seems to be both effort and grace from God that are taught and it seems that Arminianism tries to find that path.
it will sure be more helpful if your straightforward answer is YES or No! and point to what the scriptures dictates
Calvinists often don't rely on what scripture actually says. I would watch this video - ruclips.net/video/jLCqmTc6kvk/видео.html
@@christian_gamer_guy6447 please elaborate. I personally have found that many of the most God-fearing people in my life who preach and rely on ALL of the Bible come from Calvinistic theology
If Arminianism denies or attacks Gospel doctrine then it is a heresy. Pauls doctrine of predestination is part of the teaching he calls “my gospel”, in Romans 2:16,16:25, 2 Timothy 2:8. Paul did not have compartmentalized different systematic theology categories for his gospel message like we have unwisely done, he had ONE message and that was the gospel. Pauls gospel extends from Romans1:16-16:25. It includes the doctrines of foreknowledge, election, calling, justification, sanctification, and glorification. In addition Paul clearly states in 1:16 that the gospel reveals the righteousness of God and in defending his teaching on election in Romans 9:14 he asks rhetorically “is there any injustice With God?” The answer is obvious “by no means” in other words Pauls defense of divine election is a defense of the righteousness of God, which Paul clearly states is what the gospel reveals. Arminians deny AND attack Pauls gospel which includes divine election they hate it, they ARE therefore heretics. We need to quit defending and or explaining away the gospel by resorting to what some famous or even obscure Christian said, we need to just get better at reading our Bibles.
Why is my comment shadow banned ?
Interesting !
Do you believe God is Sovereign? Isn’t that the bottom line of all Biblical discussion?
That is not the bottom line of all biblical discussion. God is Sovereign, no Christian denies this.
The definition of Sovereign: "a supreme ruler, especially a monarch." or "possessing supreme or ultimate power."
The problem here, is that Calvinists often mean something else when they say that God is sovereign. They usually mean that God has meticulously determined and brought to pass every single thing that happens. This has to include every sin; every rape, every murder, every molestation was God's plan... This, is not Christian, and it is anti-biblical. Obviously God did not send His son to redeem us from the sins that He decreed that we would do.. that's nonsense. God is Holy and entirely separate from our sin, BECAUSE we are free beings with actual free will that is separate from Him, and we can choose to do good and trust Him, or we can choose evil.
Calvinism is ultimately logical within itself, until you really start looking at and applying it to scripture.
No, that’s not correct. Yes, God’s character and all that He has revealed in the Bible is key, but some Christians have built a worldview or philosophy around ‘sovereignty’ and ended up with various beliefs which contradict the plain teaching of Scripture. So, it’s important to check if one’s view of God’s kingship is in fact biblical, i.e. consistent with the whole of Scripture.
Free will is not exclusive of grace, I dont know why you put them on a vector.
While Arminianism CAN become heresy, Calvinism IS heresy!
was Billy Graham a real Christian or a false minister ?
@Mark OnTheBlueRidge why are you responding without the answer ? where would I ask this then, Are you a free mason 2 ?
@Mark OnTheBlueRidge .. agreed, I thought I could find leadership and guidance here. I'll find me a more capable group elsewhere that can. thanks for saving me time 👍
Graham did not believe that you had to believe in Jesus or have a personal relationship with Him to be saved.
Jesus taught his would-be followers that they needed to count the cost before committing to follow Him. Graham on the other hand preached a half gospel that emphasized sin and grace but not personal commitment. Of course he would have hundreds of people “make a decision”! Only God knows how many actually made a “commitment”.
In the end, a half gospel is a false misleading gospel so I believe he did preach a false gospel
No-one who truly has the Holy Spirit indwelling would follow Arminian doctrine...
This can also be applied to Calvinism which has a tendency to fall in to hyper Calvinism like John Gill and the primitive Baptists did as did I when I was a Calvinist. The solution to not falling into the extreme, just like how you'd stop someone to falling into the extreme of Arminianism is education.
"Hyper Calvinism" is just consistent Calvinism. It doesn't matter if something is extreme if it's true. The problem with Calvinism, is that it's not true, and it places all kinds of anti-biblical things on God and man and presumes that Paul and other writers of scripture are trying to teach Calvinism... and they're not.
Ah yes defending the reformed faith = hyper calvinism, repent
@@christian_gamer_guy6447Calvinism actually doesn't. If you're willing to be a pelagian, universalist, legalist, heretic then you can deny the 5 points of calvinism which are not Calvin's original ideas.
I believed more in Arminianism that Calvinism. It is more down to earth doctrine. The guy here is mistaken that Arminianism is unstable. The Arminian belief that salvation or election is universal is biblical- Jesus died for every sinner(John3:16) not for nly the chosen or elected few. In Calvinism there is Limited atonement. This gut could be a Calvinist.
Are we talking about the Arminianism that says Christ isn’t the Christ that saves perfectly, or completely? Are we talking about the Arminianism that says man isn’t completely fallen? Are we talking about the Arminianism that says we have dominion over God’s will? Then I would say YES, we are talking about heresy.
True Arminians don't believe we do any of the saving ourselves. True Arminians don't say man isn't fallen. (Completely fallen depending on what you mean by completely fallen. Even Calvinists don't believe one is as bad as one can be). No Arminian believes we have dominion over God's will.
@Building Apologetics in Arminianism can one be called by God, with God’s will being you being saved, reject that will that is God’s alone to save? Does Arminianism believe that man is unfallen enough to do better than Adam (who was face to face with God in perfect holy unity in the garden) in choosing God for our salvation? Do true Arminians believe we need to return to the sacraments of Rome to play our part in our salvation? Historically, and declaratively Yes.
@@rmlances955 "in Arminianism can one be called by God, with God’s will being you being saved, reject that will that is God’s alone to save?"
In Arminianism, all are called by God to be saved (Acts17:30). A person can choose to reject that will because God wills that man should be free. So even when someone rejects God, they are fulfilling His will. I agree that it is God's role alone to save. Even if a sinner begs and pleads to be forgiven, it is up to God whether He dispenses that grace and forgiveness. We just believe God is loving enough to give everyone the opportunity to do that and loving enough not to reject those who do.
"Does Arminianism believe that man is unfallen enough to do better than Adam (who was face to face with God in perfect holy unity in the garden) in choosing God for our salvation?"
No, Arminians believe it is impossible for someone to want God without being drawn towards Him.
"Do true Arminians believe we need to return to the sacraments of Rome to play our part in our salvation?"
Umm, no.
"Historically, and declaratively Yes."
I'm less interested in the history of it. In what sense does Arminian delcaratively say yes?
Arminianism isn't so much a focus on human free will, but rather God's love for humankind so much that he limits his own control so that they could choose. Without choice, there is no love. The calvinist God does not seem to reflect the attributes of God.
So can you read romans 7:8,romans 3:23-25, jer 17:9, prov 19:21
And you are wrong plus marked and avoided till you repent of such erroneous opinions
@@IamGreatsword romans 3:10-12 shows we are totally depraved ans no oem chooses god.
@frankiemonato583 Yes what did I say concerning that I am Reformed Baptist 1689 London Baptist Confessional v.2 so?
If you believe God causes all things that come to pass, you are not saved but greatly deceived. You don't have to be an arminian in order not to be Calvinist.
The Apostle Paul warned that If any man preaches ANY OTHER gospel, that that man should be accursed from Christ! And if there ever was an extraordinary profound other gospel, it is armenianism. It is another jesus, it rips precious core foundational encouraging truths out of the scriptures because it offends filthy human Pride and self-determination. Yes God's elect are among those who presently believe arminian theology but God will lead them out of it! They will not die not having believed the gospel
Well don’t you preach once saved always saved? The Baptist church I attend permits second marriages, allows freemasons to become members and relies on Joyce Meyer to guide bible study....I think you have bigger fish to fry. I guess Hebrews 10, Romans 11 is just speaking about the ones who weren’t “really saved” to begin with. It can’t mean what it obviously means so it must mean something else.....
It should be called eternal security or perseverance of the saints, not "once saved always saved". That is a name a bunch of heretics gave it in order to preach their works based, man centered gospel that is an abomination to the grace of God.
Humbly, it's probably time to seek out a body of believer's that are preaching the word and following it. God bless you 🙏
Mark OnTheBlueRidge I did leave. Am churchless. I went to the pastor alone, and then with others to point this out in love. No luck. Where I live it is very difficult to find a church not overrun with liberal theology. But I see your point, and I did “put away the evil person” after trying to rectify the problem. The lead pastor draws a salary of $70,000 a year. I imagine that is heavily funded by his masonic congregants, hence not wanting to say anything. I don’t know who you are, but clearly you are a believer too. So Maranatha and I hope to see you at the wedding feast.
Genesis 4:
6 then the LORD said to Cain, “Why are you furious? And why do you look despondent?
7“ *if you do what is right, won’t you be accepted?
But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at the door. Its desire is for you, but *you must rule over it"
Total depravity at birth and limited at-one-ment in life, and OSAS is more of a hearsay! John 3:16 hebrews 6:1-12
Once saved Always Saved is a heresy it is antinomians which is basically lawlessness. Calvinist do not believe in Once Saved Always Saved, They Believe in LORDSHIP Salvation. In Lordship salvation there is eternal security of the person like OSAS except that a Calvinist believes that a saved person WILL produce good fruits such as belief and repentance, a believer WILL NOT CONTINUE TO LIVE IN SIN. Good fruits or Good works is mention in Galatians 5.
My rebuttal to your comment *you must rule over them* I believe Scripture is very clear that ruling over anything, it’s only done if God gives you the ability to be able to rule over sin. John15:5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.
@Joseph Mauricio Flores you are entitled to your opinion!
" you must rule over it (SIN) " is in the scripture I quoted ! Showing *total depravity* was not immediate in the fall, otherwise God would be FACETIOUS asking a totally depraved Cain to have a good conscious, and some moral motivation. Abel would also be totally depraved based on Calvinism's Total depravity.
Total depravity *is a process* as is santification ! IMHO see...Genesis 15:16, Matthew 23:32, James 1:14-15
I'm non denominational, "sound doctrines" 1 Timothy 1:10, is morality worked out by the Spirit of God in us by choice, not a laundry list of ecclesiastical dogmas like TULIP and many others... !
I need to SOW to the Spirit aka motivation to get the Spirit to work Christs salvation in me - if I SOW to the flesh ...you know the rest ....it starts with a choice, we are not unmotivated/ dumb motherboards to be upgraded wheather we like it or not !!
Galatians 6:7, psalm 45:7 (the Spirit does come uninvited)
LUKE 11:13
Shalom in Christ 🙏
Joseph Mauricio Flores I modified my first comment ,,I hope this clears things up
Shalom in Christ
@Mark OnTheBlueRidge yes it does !
@Mark OnTheBlueRidge new agers believe they are God.
Jesus demonstrated and perfected divine nature qualities aks godliness in flesh for mankind. 2 Peter 1:3-12
New Agers say *God is ALL*
Christians say God's image aka qualities of God will be *IN ALL*
That's God ultimate purpose for creation ..
28When everything is subject to Christ, then the Son himself will also be subject to the one who subjected everything to him, so that God may be all *IN all*
The difference is we Christians are a *container for the Spirit* aka temple *NOT the substance of the Spirit* like new agers ..claim...
1 Corinthians 15:
Shalom *Christ in You* the *hope of glory* colossians 1:27
Please quote scriptures with your comments... I check the scriptures with peoples comments, if you need to respond!
How do you define Christ IN YOU ?
Thank you
Of course you can be saved. It is faith in the blood of Christ, shed to put away sin. The doctrine you hold only makes you insecure and with no assurance of salvation. It in no way effects the power in the blood to redeem and cleanse from all unrighteousness. It is God who saves and keeps whether you understand it or not.
That God gave Man Free will is evident throughout the Bible beginning with our first parents who chose with their Free Will to disobey God and partaking of the forbidden fruit. This is not Original Sin though it is the first sin of the Human Race. Why has God given Free Will and allowed his creatures to disobey and reject him? There are a multitude of explanations about why God has allowed Free Will. There are many questions about Free Will including the question of whether it is Free given God's Sovereignty. The way I read my Bible the most likely answer to this question is that God does not desire love and obedience based on his coercion or election but has chosen to allow his creatures, including Satan and the Human Race, to reject his offer of love and salvation, in short he allows rebellion though he could have prevented it had he chosen to do so. There are many explanations of why God who is Sovereign over all his creation has chosen to allow this, but He has not elected to tell us why he has made this decision. Can God with irresistible power have chosen to Elect certain individuals? I believe so the evidence of Paul's conversion is only one example of this though it is possible to conceive the idea that Paul chose freely to follow his calling and could have rejected the same on the road to Damascus. It is evident that God has chosen to allow rebellion and rejection. God also makes it plain that he is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Would God extend his Grace to the very first rebel should Satan choose to repent? I am sure God knows, and knew when he created Satan that he would never repent. How can we h humans ever hope to understand God's ways? The Book of Job is full of the proposition that we creatures will never in this life understand all the thoughts and actions of God. There are hints in the Word that we will understand, that we will know even as we are known, but to deny that God has granted we humans the freedom to reject Him, His Love, and His plan of salvation flies in the face of many. passages of God's Holy Word. How and why this is not only possible, but is fact, probably will not be known by we creatures unless God Himself chooses to tell us after we have gone home to live with Him. None of us with our present mental capabilities can explain how Total Sovereignty and Free Will can be reconciled in Christian thinking and indeed in Christian life. It is Grace by Faith alone that reconciles this and many other things encountered in our Christian Experience. This seeming dichotomy between Soverigniity and Free Will is something we humans cannot explain. For me, the single question about our relationship to God is not why things are the way they are, that question to me is why is there anything at all? Please, if you can, answer that question for me.
@Mark OnTheBlueRidge If we have free will, then Calvinism doesn't make sense.
First of all, we are not God. To compare us to God and His will, is not where we should go in talking about free will.
Secondly, you don't know your Bible if you think we can't choose God. The Bible is FULL of people believing God and being saved.
Jesus said in John 6:40 "For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.". Later, in John 6:44 He says “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day." and He explains what this means in the next verse John 6:45 "It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me."
Everyone who has heard from the Father and learned from Him.... He's talking about believing in God and learning through the scriptures. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17
God is holding out His hand to us. It's His will that none should perish, but EVERYONE come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9
If your doctrine teaches you differently than what scripture teaches, go with scripture, every time. If you don't, it may very well be the case that you are not a Christian.
If you can I would urge you to watch this video with an open mind and judge for yourself ruclips.net/video/jLCqmTc6kvk/видео.html
It’s heresy Galatians 1:6-10 no other gospel. If brother Paul states we are chosen before the foundations of the earth Ephesians 1 then that is the gospel towards salvation in Christ.
Arrogant question
The danger in believing the doctrine of Total Depravity is that you believe every good thought or deed you produce is not of yourself because you're Totally Depraved. Every good thought and deed is from the Holy Spirit manifesting Himself through you. And if you believe this, what you deem to be good becomes beyond question. Your flesh can deem something to be right, but your flesh is depraved so it must've been the Holy Spirit deeming that for you! So it must be good! No need to test the spirits if everything your flesh calls good is good because you believe it's the Holy Spirit!
You no longer have to question your beliefs or test the spirits because you believe that no good can come from you. Therefore anything that looks good, must be from the Holy Spirit, so it must be good. A beautiful slice of cake that is truly poisonous. "It looks good so the Holy Spirit must've made it! Let's not test it for cyanide, let's just eat it!"
That's a dangerous way to conduct your thinking and deeds.
Food for thought.
Not Calvinist not Armenian not presbyterian lutheran Catholic Baptist I'm just trying to be a Christian
The biggest error in how you view the work of God has mainly to do with how that view makes you see yourself.
If you view him wrong, you will view yourself wrong, and if you can't see clearly these two things, your understanding of salvation will start to become altered in such a way that it makes you think your better than those who aren't born again. And that is a horrible thing in itself...
Can you apply this to your own doctrine of salvation ? Is there a possibility that you are the one in error? Or there is no room for that? Arminians or Calvinist can error in thinking they are better than others. Some Calvinist might believe that they are of better because they are of the elect and arrogance might creep in, that’s possible. But I have never to this day met a Calvinist with such views towards the reprobate. And Arminians can view themselves better than a reprobate that refuses to repent, by thinking that if I have the ability or intelligence to repent, why does this man or woman refuse to repent, they are really dumb or really evil, more than me. I had a better more sensitive heart to recognize Gods goodness, but this unbeliever is just thick headed, dumb or more evil than I. I never seen an Arminian ever say that either. You can have the correct Doctrine and be arrogant and even be unsaved, having head knowledge with out having the heart of stone removed, is a dangerous place to be at.
By the way, I am Reformed so I do abide and agree with the Synod of Dort (I am a former Pentecostal Arminian that is a Calvinist going 11 years to accepting the Doctrine of Grace) I From Zion URCNA in Ripon Ca. I do believe some inconsistent Arminians are saved, Just as Saint Paul considered believers that where borderline in error of works based salvation. He still call them brethren.
Galatians 3
O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
I have a will ,but it’s not free. It’s not free because I am in charge of it, and that’s the problem.
It's not heresy, but it can be dangerous and heretical if not careful.
Calvinism is heresy, though ruclips.net/video/jLCqmTc6kvk/видео.html
@@christian_gamer_guy6447 According to what is Calvinism heretical?
@@reformedcatholic457 The Bible? Calvinism is not a biblical teaching. It does it's best to wrangle verses out of context to try and prove false teachings, instead of plainly reading the text in context.
@@christian_gamer_guy6447 But there is no passages that condemn Calvinism and you could be wrong in your interpretation of Scripture. Do you know what the Apostles did and Christians do in the past to condemn a heresy?
Btw..I don't fully adhere to Calvinism, I don't believe in double predestination, I believe God desires to save all etc...
@@reformedcatholic457 There are plenty of passages that teach against the necessary doctrines of calvinism. So no, the Bible doesn't call out calvinism by name, but if you read through God's word in context, calvinism is something that is obviously false.
Interpretation differences are one thing, where the text might be hard to understand, but that is not the case regarding calvinism. So much of the Bible is God calling out to us to repent, and believe. To turn and be saved. Calvinism relies on total depravity, and that leads to all kinds of nonsense when considering simple passages in scripture.
It's sad to see so many ensnared in this nonsense. :(
The bible is very clear on salvation. First John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but for the sins of the whole world. First Timothy 2;4 IT IS Gods will that everyone believe it and be saved. Acts 16:31 Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.
The gospel is given in First Corinthians 15:1-4 That Christ died for our sins, according to the scriptures, that He was buried and rose again on the third day, according to the scriptures. John 3:16-18. For God so loved the world, everybody, that He gave His only begotten Son, Jesus, that WHOSOEVER believeth in Him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:18 Once we believe it we can no longer be condemned.
The Second we believe that gospel, we are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise unto the praise of His glory. Ephesians 1:13-14. Our guarantee of eternal life. John 10:28-29. No one can pluck us from His hand.
Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on Him who justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Faith alone apart from works for the free gift of eternal life. Our works can not save sinners. Only Jesus alone. Faith is not a work. Romans 4:6-8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord imputeth righteousness apart from works. We have to be as righteous as God to go to heaven, and no one is. But He gives us His perfect righteousness when we accept His free gift of eternal life.
Blessed is the man whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. He paid our sin debt in full so we could never be condemned again. John 3:18.
First John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that BELIEVE on the name of the Son of God, that ye may KNOW YE HAVE ETERANAL LIFE. Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, (First Corinthians 15:1-4) for it is the POWER of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek, First Corinthians 1:21
If Calvinism was true, then God is a liar, and God can not Lie. First TImothy 2:4 and John 3:16. If Arminianism is true, then God is a liar. John 10:28-29 And God can not lie. First John 5:13. IT is Gods will that everyone believe on Jesu alone apart from works for the free gift of eternal life. And once we believe it we are saved forever, even if we never believe it again. Second Timothy 2:13 If we believe not, (after we have once believed) He abideth faithful, He can not deny Himself. Ephesians 1:13. We can lose our life and our rewards in heaven, but not eternal life. John 6:40 and John 6:47. No man can do anything to save himself. We can only be saved by what Jesus did for us plus nothing.
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, and we all sin, First John 1:8, and we all die, but the GIFT of God is eternal life, through Jesus finished work on the cross apart from our works which can not save a sinner.
Romans 3:26-28 We have nothing to boast in because it is free. Faith takes no effort. Romans 11:6 and Romans 11:29 For the GIFTS, eternal life, and the calling of God, John 12:32, are without repentance, Irrevocable, can not be changed back. John 1:12 Once we are a child of God we are a child of God forever. Whether we are an obedient child or a disobedient child. Since is a free gift we have nothing to boast in.
If you believe and follow calvinistic doctrine don't you follow the doctrine of men instead of the Word of God? Look at all the hate and wars they created in the 80 years war in the Netherlands. Arminius created schools and a more Christ like society. If you have the hatred to the jews and the wars ignited by the calvinists in his lifetime against creating schools and a more Christ like society by Arminius then my safest bet is on Arminius. His doctrine and kind acts are biblical. The doctrine and hatred of calvinists in his time were clearly against the Word of God. On the fruits you know the tree. See the evidence that speaks for itself.
The question could be asked the other way? Is Calvinism a herecy? There is a form of Calvinism that subtly denies faith. We believe in salvation by faith, but there is a tendency in Calvinism to reverse this and say that faith comes by salvation. They claim you are regenerated first and then you get belief.
So there are different Calvinisms as there are different Arminians. Some are more biblical than others. What we have to abide by is the scripture but again each position can point to certain texts to try and prove their claims. Fortunately, there are bad Calvinists who make good Christians. If they were to follow the logical conclusions of their doctrines they might as well give up evangelism because it is not going to make one more person elect and so saved and equally so God's grace will effect the salvation of the elect come what may, so not one more will be lost if they don't evangelise.
Arminius himself seems to unconvinced as to whether a Christian can be saved and lose it so there are many Arminians who believe that you cannot lose your salvation. Once you are saved you're no longer in your hands but Jesus's and the only one He ever lost was Judas.
How do you know Judas was saved. Jesus said that he NEVER loses his sheep. And he is not a liar
@@CesarD321 Judas is the one exception. Jesus said that He had not lost any except the son of perdition. He was only with Jesus to fulfill the role he did in the betrayal. He was lost to fulfill the scriptures.
@@spiritualrearmament3266 2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Born first, in the flesh, with the sin nature and if not born again from above, we die in our sins. To be born again, you must be born from above and that is by God's initiation. We had no say in our being born in the flesh and so it is with being born of the Spirit. God is the first cause in all things and His reasoning is above what we can understand. But He is GOD, the most supreme being, so He is sovereign and righteous in all He does. I have been on both sides of this debate, but Calvinism is a better way to view the faith. I argued against Calvinism before, because I did not really understand it, and I think that is true of many others. Seeing things from the Calvinistic point of view was a great help to my Christian life, once I really understood it. It helped me to see God in a new and better way. My friend, if God did not bring you to life, you would still be dead in your sins. Dead men cannot have saving faith, they must first be made alive by the Spirit of God.
Discern this.
Jesus states, pick up your cross daily. If you are already totally sanctified, why would you need to do it daily?
John 3:16 states, should not perish. Later versions based in Calvinism used “shall”. You have been taught to repeat “shall not perish”. Man’s teaching can never circumvent the infallible Word of God.
Either you follow God’s Word or you follow man’s interpretation of “what god meant to say”.
Calvinism removes hope.
This removes motivation to repent and strive daily.
My heart breaks for those who don't know: The mission & purpose of God the Father giving HIS only begotten Son to go to the cross & shed HIS blood for every man , woman & child. You poor duped followers of Augustine/Calvin.
No it is not follower of yourself deceived by the sometimes from satan in the garden
How many logic fallacies can we jam into a 2 minute speech? 1 - straw man argument: To summarize, you are saying it you go off the deep end, you are in danger of heresy (thanks Einstein) 2 - You are begging the question. Multiple times, multiple questions.
It is a heresy in my opinion and the Synod of Dort declared it a heresy. I don’t like these PC answers myself.
@@thereisnopandemic Calvinism is a heresy, actually. (I'm not an armenian) ruclips.net/video/jLCqmTc6kvk/видео.html
Arminius was a provocator to the highest level when he went to school. Always started quarrels only to end up giving the church weak theology
This is a fake question (Not "a great question") since Calvinism has been a minority or non-existent view point throughout the entirety of church history. It was a totally unknown teaching in the church for the first 400 years (introduced in the 5th century). This question suggests then that you would be asking if anyone was saved before the 5th century. Also, saying if your not a Calvinist means your a Arminian is a false dichotomy as there are more than two systems of soteriology. The true free will of man given to him by God (not that redefined Calvinist free will) has always been the majority belief of Christians world wide and still is today.
You have no idea what any of those terms mean just the lazy uneducated revisionist history strawmen your cult leader taught you haha
Obviously
@@iacoponefurio1915 So, just general insults and not a single point of factual rebuttal. Standard reply by uneducated individuals that have not actually studied the issue but think they know something from watching RUclips. Last I checked Traditional Southern Baptist teaching was not “a cult”. Grow up.
Eklegomia / Eklektos
Look at these men there in a Sue they sit in a chair with her legs crossed sharing their wisdom what a waste of time
Then why did you waste your time listening? You are free to move on to other things.
I have had Calvinists slice and dice and do everything else but have never heard them provide a lucid answer to why a Just God would sentence an infant to hell when the infant had no opportunity to escape hell. The "well, we ALL deserve to go to hell" angle is lame. A Christian couple at your church has a baby and everyone prays and you dedicate the child to God, when in reality, the child may already be assigned to hell. Makes no sense whatsoever. If true, your life is meaningless. According to this double-predestination, a child molester could make it to heaven - remember, it has absolutely nothing to do with your actions or even your response (monergism).
Babies go to heaven...???
@@PurePuritan Not according to John Calvin. Every soul is assigned an eternal destiny before they are born.
@@rodrocketon9480 yea and babies go to heaven.
@@rodrocketon9480 Not true. I have never met a person who believes in reformed theology say that babies go to hell. I don't know where you get your information but nothing in reformed theology teaches that babies go to hell.
@@EvieBear236 Barb, I think you may be out of your depth. Calvinism (RT) clearly and abundantly states that before any person is born, God predetermines their eternal destiny. Now, you have been confronted with the harsh reality of what you actually believe - but it is the reality.
The Arminian god does not exist,it is the same as the J.W.god AND THE MORMON god,they are idols.1 Cor 2;14 tells us that the natural man can nether know or understand spiritual things because they are spiritually discerned,therefore,anyone who fights against the Sovereign God and the way HE SAVES,does not have the Spirit and are still natural men.
So Calvinism saves in your view and not Jesus..
@@rauldelarosa2768 No,God saves whoever He chooses.
So then God is free to save as he chooses, and ONLY the ones who by grace through faith and not of works lest any man should boast, come to him in faith are saved..
These and ONLY these are saved, irrespective of presby, Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist etc label..
Right?
God chose to make faith the catalyst.
@@rauldelarosa2768 I'd say grace is the gift of a new heart , repentance and belief.
Grace is the means, not the gift..
Are only Calvinists saved?
Did Jesus eor John Calvin die for man's sin?
I think everyone should listen to Ravi Zacharias on this subject. I personally consider myself Arminian in theology, but I see truth on both sides. Perhaps our mighty God can act in both ways simultaneously? We must stop trying to condense an infinite God into our finite understanding.
James Robinson are you arminianism??? I have a question for you
Don’t listen to Ravi Zacharias he’s a bad example of someone to listen to
He doesn’t even make sense when he talks to be honest
Do you believe because you are predestined, or are you predestined because you believe?
I'll never know, but thanks be to God, I am compelled to believe in Him. The fact that so many don't see it, I find utterly frustrating.
You are compelled to believe because when you heard the truth, you believed and didn't suppress it. No one is predestined to believe.
Ephesians 1:4 tells us that God has predestined for the faithful in Christ to be made holy and blameless. The condition is that we be one of "the faithful in Christ Jesus" that verse 1 talks about. Verse 13 shows us that we are included in "in Christ" when we hearth the truth of the gospel and believe. We are then sealed with the Holy Spirit.
Romans 8:29 tells us that the people God foreknew, or knew ahead of time who would believe, or answer the call (the called according to His purpose, have been predestined to be conformed to the image of His son.
I think looking at Ephesians to help us understand Romans, we can easily see that we aren't predestined to believe; we're all drawn to Him and are called to believe, not all of us answer the call. God has decided that the people that believe, will be conformed to the image of His son.
Now you know.
Synod of dort was not close to being fair to Arminius's stance. He simply refused to make God the author of sin. He knows nothing of Arminianism. If you want a real look at it buy the book Jacob Arminius Theologian of Grace by Keith Stanglin.
The problem is when calvinists and arminianists get dogmatic in their man made doctrines that contradict God’s word.
Both are err
You sound like you actually believe that to be true. Sounds dogmatic...lol
@@YoxxSHIxx Lol...right.
@@rpavich both believe in the false doctrines of sin nature and total depravity which aren't scriptural.
@@YoxxSHIxx Well man sure ain't 'holy and blameless!" and if you DID read the bible you'd know your statement is fallacious. It's cover to cover...
The vicious dialectic.
They’re saved though and bearing the fruit of Christ in their lives remember 👌
@@JP-ul7tp Fruit comes after salvation. Fruit is evidence of salvation. But it is grossly heretical to claim that the bearing of fruit itself brings salvation.
But maybe you know that and simply made a colossal grammatical blunder.
As long as we believe that we are saved by grace I don't go against anyone...
Are we saved by Grace or are we justified by Grace that we might have a personal relationship with Him and be saved? Were we saved when he died and was resurrected? Were we saved at the moment we professed belief? Or are we saved on the Day of Judgement?
@@touchofgrace3217 I think we're saved when we believe. Catholics believe they're saved when they get to God after they get to God I think.
@@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr what do you do with James 2:19? Do you believe demons are saved? Actually, what do you do with the whole chapter? I’m really not being snarky. It just doesn’t add up unless you are looking at it differently than I am.
James 2:19
You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.
The fact of the matter is that BOTH Calvinism and Arminianism teaches a form of works salvation (Arminians claim that you can lose salvation, Calvinists claim that you can 'prove you never had it to begin with).' Either way salvation must be maintained. The real biblical truth is man is a free-willed being, that salvation is indeed eternal, is not maintained by perseverance, but rather by preservation and that Jesus Christ is the potential Saviour of all men, but only those who receive the gift of salvation through through faith alone in Jesus Christ alone is the atonement applied, or made good on one's account. It's not that difficult to understand when we just read the Bible (KJV) as it is without any theological or denominational biases.
Thank God we are not saved by Doctrine. But believing what Armenian's do is so sad
A better question would be “If you believe Calvinistic doctrine can you be saved?”
The synod of dort was a kangaroo court. The remonstrants weren't allowed to annunciate, or explain arminian theology. The goal wasn't truth but how the synod was going to convict the remonstrants of error and heresy. Due to the synod of dort calvinists, just like roman catholicism, caused arminians to be hunted and even executed what the syndod deemed to be heretical.
The remonstrants started the debate , they attacked the clear teachings of the bibel. Its now thanks to them that we have all these cults like the pentecostals, jehovas wittness and many more arminian heretics
Don't be talking bad about Armenians.
Arminians believe you can effectively lose your salvation if you sin too much. Salvation is by grace through faith. Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every that believes.
Arminian Christians believe what 2 Peter 2 and the book of Hebrews says that you can depart from the faith, see 1 Timothy 4 as well..
Soooo...I stand with the New testament warnings in the bible about falling away..
@@rauldelarosa2768 So if you don't do enough works you will lose your salvation?
@@andrewbarnes1959 if you walk away from the faith you lose your salvation..
Stick to what's said please, nobody's mentioned works..
You did, the scriptures say that we can fall away from the faith..
Stick to the subject matter at hand please and stop talking past people and start listening..
@@rauldelarosa2768 What is an example of someone who walked away from the faith?
So the guest never really answers the question--at least not in a straight-forward fashion. A kind of beating around the bush.
The more I learn about Calvinism and Arminianism, the more I agree with Leighton Flowers.
His whole ministry is focus on that subject and not Christ though.
The Bible states that only the elect will not be deceived by the anti Christ. Arminians do not believe in election or predestination. If you hold to the doctrine that you made the final decision on salvation , then one complete rejects a number of scriptures. God is the author of our faith. This is the work of God that you beleive on Him whom he sent. Born not of blood , or of the flesh , or of the Will of man.
Brilliant misrepresentation
Scripture has been quoted
Armenians beleive they make a choice. Bibles says you have not chosen me but I have chosen you. Ephesians 1 is as clear as it gets
@@davidhorvat700
1) No Arminian believes we are responsible for our own salvation.
2) Every Arminian I know holds to predestination, only they define it differently than you do.
You are correct about what most Armenians believe . They believe Gods predestination is based on His foreknowing that they will make the correct choice and accept Christ . We make a choice in a verbal acceptance of Jesus , but that is because the gift of grace includes giving us the ability to repent. “And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
2 Timothy 2:24-26 KJV
The elect believe because Christ has first chosen some according to His good pleasure , with nothing we have done
Arminians believe in salvation that Christ’s death leaves it up to the individual. If that is the case then salvation is of God plus man’s belief .
That is works which is not grace
Without Gods election none would be saved or seek after the true God although most men seek a God of their own creation which is very close to the true God , but the less a false Christ , faLse Christ , and a false gospel
Mathew 23
Almost all who are saved beleive that it is there decision, but at some point after studying the scripture you realize that the Lord showed you mercy and saved you.
We probably believe 98% the same but only the elect are truly saved.
If you want to talk on the phone let me know
@@davidhorvat700
"Arminians believe in salvation that Christ’s death leaves it up to the individual. If that is the case then salvation is of God plus man’s belief .
That is works which is not grace"
Christ's death happened regardless if humans accept it or not. Salvation is a work of God, not man. No classical arminian believes that. I could put my trust in God, and He could still choose not to save me, ergo my choice has nothing to do with it. It all God.
who cares about calvinism or arminianism let God be true and every man a liar neither one will matter at the judgement the gospel is according to the scriptures not Jacob arminious or john calvin wake up
Both Calvinism and Arminianism can be heretical and false when taken to their extremes. Regenerate Calvinists and Arminians who read, study, and BELIEVE their Bible can find firm biblical footing! I just happen to believe it is a little bit more so with the Calvinists! 😉
Ray Sauter Calvinism if one excludes people from evangelism has become hyper Calvinism. The doctrines associated with Calvinism are 100% truth. The same cannot be said about Arminian doctrine. This is the great deception going on.
How hard is it to understand this, before the foundations of the world He chose us in Him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ. How hard is that to grasp He chose us before we were ever created folks. Simple easy and that’s the accepted teaching and history of the church. Until Arminius the false teacher came along.
Arminian doctrine brings out man's responsibility and his need of forgiveness and justification. Calvanistic doctrine brings out the sovereignty and counsels of God from eternity, but which were only revealed in the New Testament after the exaltation of the Lord Jesus at the right hand of the throne of God. They are both scriptural teaching and are both totally necessary for a sound understanding of the gospel. The main fault of the Arminian teaching is that there is absolutely NO FREE WILL. Man has self will, but that will is controlled by Satan until the sinner is converted and becomes a 'new creation' in Christ Jesus.
The whole early Church were Arminian in their theology. Dort and Calvinists were wrong and have only been around in Christianity for less then 500 years.
Not true. Read first clement and the epistle to diogentus.
The doctrines of grace go all the way back to the beginning. Calvin defended them so his name was stuck with it. You are correct Salvation is of God.
Actually the trinity believers are the harlot church. Those that come out will be saved. God is not a trinity. He is the father alone. Psalms 18:31, 2nd Samuel 22:32, Isaiah 44, Deut. 6:4, John 17:3, Eph. 4:6.
You are clearly heretical.
You dont understand either Trinity, The Bible, or History.
@@simovie9896 Then prove me wrong.
@@RoseSharon7777 John 1 New International Version (NIV)
The Word Became Flesh
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Here it's cleary talking about Jesus as the Word, he was God, he was with God and he became flesh and made his dwelling with us, so yeah Jesus is God and the trinity is biblical doctrine.
@@RoseSharon7777
A. John 1:1-5 (KJV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
B. Genesis 1:1-3 (KJV) In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
(Spirit of God? Not different hypostasis from God? Are you serious?)
C. 1 Corinthians 8:6 (KJV) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
(Father = Son?)
D. Matthew 3:16-17 (KJV) And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
(If God is not trinity, means God is speaking to Himself, means God is insane)
E. Sabellianism, also known as modalism, is a heresy which states that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are different modes or aspects of one God, rather than three distinct persons.
Sabellius was excommunicated as a heretic by Pope Calixtus I in AD 220.
Today, Sabellianism, despite being rejected by the Church for nearly 1800 years, is accepted primarily by some Pentecostal groups, who are sometimes referred to as Oneness Pentecostals or "Jesus Only" Pentecostals.
(Source: orthodoxwiki.org/Sabellianism)
F. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit.
But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one, the glory equal, the majesty coeternal.
(Athanasian Creed line 5 and 6)
G. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity;
(Athanasian Creed line 3)
................. My experience ??????? 99.9% of the Baptists I know carry a hint of pride ..... NO PRIDE ALLOWED, period .......
Look up the Soteriology101 RUclips channel for a more in depth look at the freewill/determinism debate
Thank God Jesus wasn’t a Calvinist, he never would have died for us!!!