i graduated highschool in 2006 at 44, i had to quit school at 14 to be a mom. and He could care less no card no gift,acted funny when my son said were going to her graduation.when my dad died no condolence AT ALL NO SORRY NO HUG NOTHING
Covert narcs can say and/or do something that might look to an outsider like a compliment or helpful action while simultaneously & intentionally driving a knife through your heart. It is freaking amazing how they do it.
Absolutely Laura! When I *try* to give examples it's hard to even formulate the words because it is difficult to come up with the double bind wording. But they can do it on the fly without any real thought - it's just their normal programmed responses and behavior. -Duane
Dad Surviving Divorce I have an example. My husband's ex is a covert Narc. It's him who got the custody (boy, 8y.o) because she moved to another city. She once did a "compliment" to him by saying : "Thank you for doing your best to take care of our son". She nevers compliments him. So he didn't reply. The next time, she twisted her words by writing "I repeat, thank you for doing YOUR best to take care of our son, even if it's not MY best based on MY values". I can give you dozen and dozen of examples like that. But you can already see that an outsider would see nothing wrong in what they say, because nothing is directly said... While the target gets the subliminal critic of the way he parents, plus a put down of his values to rise hers. Fortunatly I've been with many narc myself and very well informed now. I helped him free his mind from that (excuse me the term) creature. As for me, those people don't deserve to be called human beings. Sorry for my english I am french. Have a nice day
You brought up a really good point Juliana and it is another example of how these people are able to manipulate our emotions. As you said most people cannot see the nuances of a comment or conversation. So when and/or if we respond negatively we will definitely be the ones that look like the bad guy or emotionally unstable guy. That's where we just have to Focus and not take the bait. It is really a bizarre world and situation that we have to live because their behaviors just so well basically evil. No worries about your English your comment make complete sense and I understood what you were talking about. To let me welcome you to the channel if I have not already done that! -Duane
Dad Surviving Divorce Oh thank you Duane :) I have to mention that my husband and I we love everything you say in your videos. You are so real, humble and down to eath, we can easily relate to you. We feel we can trust your experience and we feel sorry for you, yet you have that an incredible strengh. We spent so much time trying to understand, to talk, reason and so and so, change ourselves, become like her, change again, be assertive and so and so. He didn't want to believe what she is capable of doing, he thought he could change her by showing her how to be good to people. Most of the time he does what is the kid's best interest so she knows how to trick him using his sense of sacrifice. Our story is unrealistic yet it is true... So glad we're not alone in this and we can talk without being labelled as crasies or the abusers, especially after the smear campaign she did. Thank you again, we appreciate! Have a nice day.
Juliana I think one of the hardest things about this process is coming to terms with what the other person really is. It is just so hard to believe that another human being can be like this and be so destructive two their ex and to their children. It sounds like you guys have really tried everything to make things better and I think all of us have to go through that to some degree. But at the end of the day we have to come to the realization that they just won't change they're incapable of seeing the damages they're doing and there really isn't anything that we can do to make them better. I can completely understand what you're talking about with him being used because of his sacrifice for the children as I went through the same thing. But after a while you realize that focusing on your kids is really the right move and if somehow they get some benefit from it it really doesn't matter. Thank you very much for all the kind words and the support! I am really grateful that I have been able to take this is very traumatic experience and turn it into something positive that has been able to help others going through this. I can remember how long I felt, how isolated I felt, and how this nightmare just didn't seem like it was ever going to end. So if I sharing my experience and my perspective if I can give somebody bit of hope and maybe shine some light to help them find their way then I think I'm really doing what I intended to do with this channel. -Duane
Hi Zoltar (cool name by the way) and welcome the channel! Yeah that is so very true - I spent over 20 years in that relationship and couldn’t understand why I felt so bad (thought it was just me and that I was chronically depressed - well technically I probably was). Hope you’re doing okay! -Duane
Absolutely. From the outside person looking in, it all seems benign but always said it’s like a slow drip feed of condescension that only pokes at your character. No one else gets it. I thought I was being over sensitive until I found out other people talked about the same things!
Hi Alison welcome to the channel! I absolutely agree with you with the only exception being if you have children. When kids are involved no contact it's typically impossible and you have to do hybrid no contact coupled with Grayrock techniques. -Duane
An example from my childhood: After extreme effort studying I got a 99% on my math test. I was crushed when my Dad said, "Very good. Next time, make it 100!" Soul crushing, still hurts and that was over 50 years ago. To this day I have a habit of trying to please others for outside validation. People who "take the shine off" suck so hard! I am in my 60's now and have awoken to the fact that I need to learn to feel good about myself.
That is a really good example of this type of behavior. The problem is even if you said something it would be easy for them to defend, "Why are you being so sensitive I just know you can do better and I'm trying to *help* you, why are you so defensive. Of course 99% is good, I just think you can do better." Then you have your mind spinning because "maybe they are right" or maybe it wasn't meant to be mean. These people are masters at slowing tearing you down until you start doing it to yourself! Before I end let me welcome you to the channel and thank you for your comment! -Duane
it hurts still cuz that was probably the very moment he finally broke you. it broke you because of all the narc abuse leading up to that point that wasn't processed. its so painful going through life as the unloved daughter and of course the knowledge of what was happening to us wasn't accessible until recently. im 45 and thought all these years i was completely nuts because of my father, and horrible adult relationships. i sound ridiculous when i talk about my past relationships to the point a normal person would be like yeah thats how toxic people talk about their target ex's but its all true. if only i knew what was going on and how to avoid falling into narc traps in my 20s my life would have gone a lot better. the craziness i put up with and stayed with all cuz i thought it was all me is just bizarre, i wish i could call steven king and let him include some of these memories a book. cuz to even tell a friend would be a big risk so i hold it all in. lol
I would get over a 100 and she would say big deal u don't even try and get 100 every time. Claimed she needed a smart man, but got insecure when she realized I was smarter than her. Lol
Thanks for sharing...I hope that your father's narcisism made you a successful individual....I think that there is a side effect of narcisistic parent: we might outgrow them and thougout that process learn how to handle and/or discard them....there are a bunch of narcisistic parents duped in elderly homes.....righteously so!!!
They are always chipping away at your confidence in order to bring you into bondage to themselves. Sometimes the chipping is small and sometimes they try to use a jack hammer. "Your doing great now but there was a time I was ashamed of you." "Your doing great now but it may not always be that way." "You will never amount to anything without me, you will come crawling back". "Your green behind the ears". "Your too young to know anything". "You and your wife are doing well now but it may not always be that way". "I see you are going to learn something". Fear and fault-finding propaganda is what they spew, trying to steal your confidence and rule over you. Thank God I am free today, by Jesus, I really am free. It is so wonderful to be out from under that garbage.
There's a woman at the care home where I work who tries to create illusions where I feel incompetent compared to her work. A good example is when I was getting a resident up and ready for breakfast who is very argumentative due to her dementia and just difficult in general so it took me a while to get her up and dressed and the woman in question had gotten up three residents and she tried to say I was too slow and incompetent when in reality the three residents she got up were almost completely independent and were very friendly and got on with the routine so of course she would have seemed more competent than me but really she just had an easier time than I did. So be careful of those who actively are just bullshitting and are just illusionists to appear superior when in reality they are just struggling as much as you. Psychological abuse is rampant. If you ever start feeling like you're less than, then someone is pretending.....
good insight ...i have been married 38 years to my covert narsicist wife...all those little twisted digs ...i put up with...and. internalized ...awake for 8 months and at first i would stop her every time she would dig at me... unbelievable how often they do this...she needs deliverance from this narsicist/ Jezebel demon..which possessed them very young because of the hurt they were enduring as children and these evil spirits came to the child as a counterfeit holy spirit ..".i will help you " crazy stuff...the book restored to freedom by Nelson Schuman... explains this...
Oh my god. I totally feel for your son. As a daughter of the most covert Narc I've ever known in my whole 28 years of existence, I totally understand. I, too am creative but I literally have nothing to show for it. Never understood why. I would start things or think about starting things all the time. But that's as far as it would go. And now I know why. She was so extremely neglectful, there would never have been a moment where she would notice my art, drawings, etc. I can even play the piano, but not as well as I should be at my age. When I would play the piano, her and my brother would turn up the volume on the TV that was in the same room as my piano to passively agressively tune me out. My mother only used my piano recital (the only ONE I had) to invite her then boyfriend to show me off. I never had another recital again after that. I think that stuff really traumatized me. I always had so much self doubt about this ability of mine. Recently I took an advanced piano course at my local community college. I would have anxiety before every recital, but...believe it or not...I got an A on every single one, and passed the course with flying colors. It is so important to encourage our children. I know first hand what this can do and like you said it is extremely damaging. But again, you can't pinpoint it. For example, outsiders would say, well your mom bought you an expensive piano and she did attend your recital! Yeah...but, why did she do these things? It was never for me to be successful. It was for her to look successful Sorry for the long comment but I really was looking for a channel on youtube specifically about Covert narcs to make sure I am making the right decision and yours popped up and I am *so* thankful!
@@nicksanders9148 As a Christian I totally agree that we have that wonderful day when we will be with our maker. However, Father God would also endeavour, in His infinite wisdom, to ensure that we, as our authentic selves, live our best life and pursue our purpose as earthly beings in the here and now on this planet! Jeremiah 29 vs 11 - ' For I know the plans I have for you.....'
My Mother was a covert narcissist. She only gave praise when she was manipulating, other than this, she constantly pitted people against eachother and criticized, all the while attempting to look like the victim.
It’s so horrible when a person, especially a parent, utilizes praise (the thing we are so desperate for) just for manipulation. It is a truly horrible thing to do to someone - I know there are more “horrible things” but this systematically destroys you from the inside and then tears your life apart in so many other ways. It’s sad because your mother could turn that energy and effort to good so much more positive and good would be created. It is really hard to break from this upbringing so you should be really proud of yourself for the growth that you’ve made. There are a lot of people that are trapped in their environment (and future relationships) that never make it out! You did and that is a huge accomplishment! -Duane
This is my Mother too! I had to go No Contact with her because all she wants to do is play mind games and hurt me. These types are Sadistic. They really enjoy hurting people emotionally and making themselves out to be the victim. They love to set you up and see you fail. They will smear you to anyone who will listen! All they care about is getting "Supply" which is the "high" they get from hurting others. And they know exactly what they are doing! The only way to protect yourself is to master the Grey Rock technique and learn Not to React Emotionally because they "feed on it". And of course...go No Contact if you can.
Mine never praised me. Never Hugged me. I kept going back For more. Trauma bonding. My siblings were her flying Monkeys. She was an absolute very dirty mean Person toward me not my Other siblings because they Are just as mean and dirty Like her.
Just another example. I just translated a book, and I was really happy about getting the job, also the topic really interested me, I got paid well, so I was happy overall. I told a friend about it who I thought was a "good" friend. She asked me about the title. Then she laughed and said: "Doesn't sound like a bestseller to me." I felt like kicked into the stomach. Considering that I had just expressed how happy I was! Was it possible that she was THAT jealous? Most likely. This reminded me of a lot of other experiences of the same kind, all though my childhood and the rest of my life. Thank you for the video, and thanks for being such a considerate Dad.
Hi Troll23 (crazy name BTW) and welcome to the channel! That is a really good example and I’ve had similar with a particular friend of mine. These type of people just have a hard time handling someone else having something good and will do everything they can to *take the shine* off of it. The problem when we’ve been surrounded by this behavior (as you mentioned - and I had the same) is that we begin to expect it and rationalize it. Botton line, it’s not *normal* behavior and if we can’t *talk* to these people about this we need to phase them out - or at least know they are going to do it so we don’t *let them* take away our victory. Speaking of that - congratulations on translating a book - that is awesome that you were selected and well compensated for your work - HOPEFULLY it will lead to even more jobs! -Duane
Thanks for the welcome, Duane. This has never happened to me before: being acknowledged by a channel. (If I was a troll, I would not call myself that, I thought. But the joke is lost on most people.) Anyway, another give-away is unsolicited advice: "I am only telling you so that you will do better next time." You know in your gut that the person did not mean well, but you have been trained early to feel guilty for being too sensitive, so you suck it up. Advice giving is always hidden criticism: if you were smart, I did not have to tell you. It is such a common practice of control over others, camouflaged as "helping". But if you pay attention to your feelings, you sense the put down - and you cringe.
Sure Troll23 I really do make every attempt to respond/reply to every comment. Sometimes I fall behind and I've missed a few that just fall through the cracks. Ugh that *unsolicited advice* that is the main subtle put down that they use. I've felt the same thing - you hear it and it feels like someone dropped dirt in your drink... Very annoying. -Duane
Oh, my...I have been facing an entire family of these people except my grandfather. Someone very close to me broke my heart criticising everything I did...even down to how I put my dishes away. My mother was one and influenced my father to behave the same way. I was a violinist and received a full 5 1/2 year scholarship to a well known school to take me through the masters program. Not one word of encouragement. I gave the only convocation (solo concert)at that school that had ever been given. by a freshman. but my family didn't come to hear it. I could go on and on, but it's over now. I ended it with my family, my sister, my grandmother, and never achieved what I could have. I am so happy now, and have a wonderful and caring husband. What a blessing. There's so much more, but I won't bore you. Just know that you can be so very happy and have your own life.
Duane, just picked up on something you mentioned there re your ex and son ....about her commenting on his writing not being up to her standard. Everything, I mean everything, is a competition with these people. They compete with you, and even their children. They are horrific. I remember an incident at my child's school in a meeting with the Principal. My ex brought inappropriate information to the Principal's attention in front of my child. Tears started to pop out of her eyes. He just sat there with a satisfied look on his face. Nill on Empathy, nill on loyalty. The damage that is being done to our children is soul destroying for me.
And because they have zero empathy they can not even understand what they are doing or why it would even be a problem. Grace it is *really* difficult to watch what is going on but *try* to remember that *you* are the only one that can really help your daughter through this - it is still going to be hard and you are not going to be able to protect her from everything but you are her rock. Your ex is the one picking up rocks and throwing them at her. -Duane
Yes, they do, and it's SO heartbreaking. It's harmed my son academically for the past 2 years, while the N--ex loves how it hurts him, so that he can feel hope our son will fail, as he had. smh...This year, things are looking up. Praying kiddo keeps moving the right direction, so that he will accomplish all he dreams of.
It is so true they are always competing! I was living out of the country and we always planned to get our Master's and return to the States. Well she ended up not coming with me after bad fight and then she ghosted me. The day I was leaving the country she called me crying. I felt so bad because I didn't want that. But I knew there was something not right because of all our struggles. I got back in the States that day. We kept talking. One night we were on skype and she ended up saying something hurtful and not taking any responsibility for anything and down playing everything. She then ghosted me yet again. During this time I was looking for an online Master's... I even told her about because I thought is was best since I could move anywhere and study. She was also looking for a master's. After another vanish act I did not speak to her for another month. When we spoke again, I told her I had applied for that master's and she flips out on me saying, "You didn't tell me! You didn't tell me! why didn't you tell me!!" I was like, " How could I, if you were ignoring me again for a month!" Just crazy stuff! She was competing with me because she didn't get an answer answer to any of her applications! Soon after, she would get a full time scholarship and she felt so much better about herself! Her ego went through the roof even calling me lazy. After she moved to the States, she basically lost interested in me, started saboting everything and discarded me. On top of that she thinks she is the abused victim. Why was this relationship such a struggle for me? Now, she found another guy at school with money. Will she respect him more?
Omg! My ex would get compliments from other me about how beautiful I was and he would get mad and follow it with something like yeah they don't know how crazy you are. Which I would get crazy because of the games, and head trips he would inflict on me. I was broken and out of control under his control. I had never in my life experienced such a person. Im still recovering.
My dad is a narc. Anytime you say anything...he says the opposite. If u say you feel bad...he tells u you might die...he loves to talk about how everyone else is great but you. For many years I thought he didn't know what he was saying or doing. But after watching narc videos...holy crap...that's him! Sometimes he does give ok advice so hard to tell...but he is very selfish. I went no contact cuz he was too toxic for me and very upsetting. Its hard though.
Yes! My ex would give me crap for not going to college with 3 kids under the age of 6, then when I would talk about wanting to and the things I was interested in, he told me I wouldn't be able to handle it.
I hope you did it Gwen! and if you haven’t you can still do it. Do it for you and to be a model for your kids. And also don’t share your dreams with those who’ll rain on your parade. There’s power & quiet strength in moving in silence. All the best ♥️♥️♥️
Your children are fortunate to have you as a father! Both my parents are narcs and they have attempted to ruin every single event. One time I was moving to a different state, called parents to let them know I arrived, was all happy and bubbly...then father said he needed my address, so that he could send a life insurance policy for me to sign...then told me I probably had only 10 more years of life and I was going to cause my sister a financial burden of burying me...because he and mother probably would be dead by then and I was forcing my sister to pay to bury me. WTF! I cried and cried on a day that was exciting for me!
Thank you Gypsy Julie I appreciate that! It is really crazy how parents can ruin pretty much anything. Parents with this disorder can find unique and amazing ways to show us that we mean very little to them. I hope now that you know and understand their power has been diminished. Personally I just make a concerted effort to stay away from these type of people because they just do not have a constructive place in our lives. -Duane
I am the adult child of a Covert Narc. (now deceased) What helped me protect myself was the "grey rock technique" (not sure where I first learned it from) but it worked! I chose to keep in minimal contact because she was elderly and I needed to have a way to protect myself from comments such as you describe.gre Love your channel! Keep going!! The best thing we can do for our kids is be their cheerleader and encourager every day!
Hi Pam! Yeah removing their access to our heart and soul is really key. Even if you understand what you are dealing with those constant subtle putdowns can really wear on you. Thank you for the support! -Duane
"are you sure you want to do that?"..."I don't think that's a good idea," those were my favorite phrases ugh...narcissists just don't want you to do anything well or use your talents...Bc it's not THEM doing those things..now I just try to remain positive, cheerful and optimistic..sometimes sarcastically I'll just say don't listen to anyone about doing good things for yourself, it's your life
Lisa that is a really good mantra to say to yourself - everyone needs to learn to *self validate* especially when we are surrounded by toxic people. It is no wonder how hard it is for people to succeed because they have a constant barrage of negative comments and putdowns. If our own parents (or spouse) also do that it makes it even harder because we start to believe that we just aren't that "good" nor deserving of success. I hope that you have been able to break free from this and achieve success for yourself! -Duane
+Dad Surviving Divorce Duane, oh yes my mother as well as my ex spouse are like this..my ex spouse is hybrid no contact and my mom I have no contact with in the last few months, very peaceful now
yep they are jealous yet too lazy to do anything themselves for real success. I lost weight and my mom won't acknowledge it at all except with anger. are you kidding me? who does that? a narc! my husband did too so she says "I noticed Cary (not real name) lost weight .. WHY????!!!!! she wants to think it's because he found out he has a disease or something. unreal. she said "I'm not stupid and I'm not blind I see that you guys aren't eating like gluttons anymore!!!! all in an angry hateful LOUD voice. only a narc would get mad at people trying to get healthy. and btw we never did eat like gluttons that was a projection. she's old and 100 lbs overweight and hates it but won't do anything about it. I just smiled and said we just decided we wanted to get healthy. and she says 'yeah right' or something like that .. wow .. just wow. no "good for you" glad to see it .. nothing positive oh never that! :( But I do get plenty from other normal people so I'm good :)
I was fortunate, my son saw through his mother before I did. He referred to her as two faced. Still, she would take the wind out of his sails when he wanted to do things if they did not meet / match what her dreams were for him. So, he learned to not talk with her about this. He would come to me quietly. That lead to another issue where she is always spying on the two of us and tries to create wedges between us.
I really appreciate you talking about this from a man's perspective. There are a lot of women talking about grandiose narcissists on youtube, but it is such a relief to hear someone like you talk about this species of narcissism. You clearly understand this type of abuse. I'm having a hard time finding help through a therapist, since the covert narcissist that I know is a therapist herself. I'm trying ACA, but it is hard since it is not private. I don't know what to do. I cannot go no contact, and grayrock seems impossible. It is a recipe for hopelessness.
My parents never said one word when I got my B.A. It was completely ignored. No accomplishment of mine was ever mentioned at all. My last narc "boyfriend" had told me he hated his mom. I noticed when he did his weightlifting his mom dotingly said to him "That's good Danny!" He was 29 years old and she was praising this man for lifting a weight. He despised her. It was such a contrast to MY mom who never once said one nice word to me about what I accomplished. The put downs from my ex covert narc came more and more frequently and were more and more vicious as time went on. I can't believe how I kept talking to him, but I was programmed to take abuse.
I've had to deal with several different narcissists in my life, one of the worst of whom was my mother-in-law. She never truly accepted or cared for any of her four daughters-in-law, and made sure we knew it. She did things--some subtle, some blatant--to let us know that "my boys" were special, she OWNED them, and she drove wedges between each son and their wife to insure that she would always hold the trump card when it came to their loyalty and love. She made sure we knew that we weren't really part of the family; we were just tolerated. Holidays were the worst, especially Christmas. She gave some people a lot of gifts, others just a few. Many of the gifts she did give me only served to prove how little she knew me and cared about me. For many years, I would go home we left her house and cry. I tried so hard to please her, only to be repeatedly hurt and rejected. For the last 10 to 15 years, I decided to limit my visits and time with my in-laws. I only went over on Thanksgiving, Christmas, and Easter, and I never stayed more than 3 hours. If my husband and kids wanted to stay, that was fine, but I went home. It was the closest I could get to no contact while they were alive, but it gave me a great deal of peace. She died a year ago, and I am free! The really weird thing was that, at her funeral, her pastors talked about what a warm, generous, kind person she was! I wanted to throw up. I waa afraid someone would come up to me later and say how wonderful she was. However, here in the South, we respond to situations like this--where it would be impolite to tell the truth--by saying, "Bless her heart. She was 'special.'" 😉
I learned about narcissism and predatory behavior after I had met someone again which raised a lot of questions in his behavior. Also, I told him about plans I had for myself and he said "If you think, this is the right thing for you." In hindsight, I would say, he wanted to make me self-doubt my decisions and confuse me, so this was a put down. After I had learned about covert narcissism, it was hard to believe how very well this person followed the pattern and displayed so many red flags.
That is a really good example NoOrdinaryOne of a subtle putdown. In retrospect you can always tell because the comment causes you to doubt yourself and what you are doing. Being able to recognize and identify the traits and these people is really important to protect ourselves. Someone else mentioned that it can be lonely when we start to phase toxic people out of our lives but is it better to be with someone that is subversive or alone? I *now* will choose alone - it just isn't worth it. Wait to find the *good* people out there. Thanks for the comment NoOrdinaryOne! -Duane
*_Idk if my mom is narcissistic, but she points out what’s wrong with me.. I would call it subtle put downs.. Today after leaving her house I cried when I got home bcuz I’ve had enough!!_* *_& I can’t tell her anything bcuz she’ll say I’m crazy & wrong about my accusation.. So I stay quiet!! & what sucks is she says her mom does the same thing.._* *_LOL I think it’s gotta be a cycle!! My roomate is the only person that I can console about this ATM so I won’t go crazy bcuz I have yet to find a therapist to console lol I gotta get to it ASAP!!_* *_But she can take very hurtful digs without being super mean.. I left her house almost shaking tonight.. I gave her subtle digs back & she didn’t like it too good, but I felt like it didn’t work.._* *_It just made it worse.. Like it was just going to get uglier.. Crazy how everything was so subtle & we were like okay & kissed each other goodbye like usual but I was shaking inside!!_* *_Lol y’all know what I mean?? Oooooohhhh!!!! Yeah sorry!! I’m only on here to find out how to handle her better bcuz I don’t think reciprocating her actions helped any better!!_* *_& Afterward I ended up killing her with kindness but it was so hard!! She gives me this look like she’s waiting for me to react & I don’t want to give her that power!!_* *_Sadly I have before in the past.. I felt like I was gonna crack at any sec but I made it to my car before bursting out crying!!_* *_But I know exactly why she does it bcuz she tells me her mom does it to her & she is way worse!! I believe she is just cycling it back to me from what her mother does to her!!_* *_It’s a learned behavior!! & I want to break it bcuz when I have kids I do not want to be like her!!! Nooooo!!!_*
Thank you for this video and thank you for this channel. I was struggling with this for a long time without even knowing it. I was trying to think when has my narcisst been critical or put me down and I couldn't think of that many. Having just watched this, a lot of put downs I have realized came in the form of disinterest when I was doing well at something, or they would bring the conversation back on to themselves and also they would say well that's good but now you should focus on this. He is now doing these things with my daughter and I can see it clear as day. But thank you for pointing this out as something that they do, it's another piece to the puzzle for me. X
You clearly care so much about your kids. I'm a female with a narcissistic ex-partner (male). It restores my faith in men, generally, to hear your story about the years of craziness you've lived through. Before discovering your channel, I didn't realize there were men who really cared about anyone except themselves, especially their kids. So, for me, it's important to hear your story. You're a good man.
Omg. thank you Duane is really conforting first one important thing you said it will get better and what i found out that helps tremendously is that im noy alone is this awful situation of dealing with this person but there are many more that know the harship we gotta deal with everyday. Thank you. For give us hope and help.
You know Jacqueline the first major victor we have is validation and understanding of what we are dealing with. Prior to that I’m sure you thought you were going crazy and questioning EVERYTHING in your life (because I know I sure did). The next is realizing that you’re not alone and other people *have gone through* the same thing and have survived it. Sure it’s not easy but there absolutely is hope that you get break free from the chaos and have a good life even if these wonderful “human beings” are still stuck in your life because of children. It will get better - just give yourself the time and space to start to heal from this. It took me over 2 1/2 years to really start healing from this. -Duane
People should not need their parents affirmations when they are older. They have more support from many people then. Don't take anything personally from a narcissist. They are not mentally/emotionally healthy. They may compete also. Just be the model...no need to try to influence. No panic, just keep going. Stay connected with God who can help/bless/guide.
You are so great about helping your kids to look to the future with "can do" attitude. A child living with a Narc is a death sentence to self confidence.
God that is so true SureHowDoYouKnow and I'm seeing that A LOT with my oldest - he's really struggling with all of this and it's *very* difficult for him to realize he is worth so much more than what he's being "given". This is to include from his mother AND the girl that he likes...
You’re very welcome Peggy and welcome to the channel. Hopefully each day you can see the improvements you are making in your healing. I hope that you are starting to have *hope* for your future - it really makes a huge difference when you start to believe there is even the possibility of a positive future filled with love and peace instead of the pain! -Duane
Again thank you Dwane for the advice suggestion and support. yes it does drives me crazy and brakes my heart when my little one has to go with his dad specially on saturdays cause is more hours and i feel a bad mom but i obviously can be there for him when he goes to his house.
I’m just beginning to see my sister is a covert narcissist. She done this to me and now she’s starting to do it to my kids. She’s so sly, it’s almost scary!
Yeah it really is Mossy Oak Mom! Its generally so subtle that its hard to make out. Once you start to really see it - it is pretty annoying... Hope you are able steer clear of it and keep your kids away from her!
It's not personal; they just can't stand other people being successful or happy. If you are doing well then it triggers their negative self image. When a narcissist puts you down, it means your success is a threat to them. See it as a compliment.
yeah my mom said (after I told her I loved her on her birthday) "I love you too, MOST of the time" left me feeling like .. what the hell was that? that's performance based as they all are as they don't really LOVE anyone but themselves. so when you PERFORM well enough to please them they love you (not really they are just nicer to you for a while) and when you disappoint them they don't which is most of time .. so actually she lied .. she only loves me (her kind of love) once in a while. then another time I told her I loved her she said "I love you too, REMEMBER you're the one I wanted" .. again I was like huh? BE AWARE WHEN THEY ALWAYS HAVE TO ADD SOMETHING YOU ARE MOST LIKELY DEALING WITH A NARC! They can't just say "I love you too" and give you a sincere HUG and SMILE! It always comes back around to be ABOUT THEM somehow some way!!! or at least it leaves you feeling like "what was that"?? :( I have only one brother (the golden child) and he was supposedly (I doubt that) an accident because then my dad HAD to marry her .. get it? it was the 50's so that kind of thinking was still around. but she went off the pill and TRICKED my dad into having me .. so I'm THE ONE she wanted. yeah ok. really she just wanted another slave and also she keeps reminding me lately that SHE (unlike all the rest of the dummies she knows and is related to) PLANNED FOR HER FUTURE! mostly talked about in the sense of money (but my dad was the one that went to work and made a pension she takes credit for) but I think having kids is another way the narc plans for their future .. so when they are old they have someone to TAKE CARE OF THEM. if they groom them properly. so now that I know all about this narc stuff it's easier to deal with .. accepting the fact that narcs don't love anyone was hard at first I mean your parents are the ones above all that are supposed to really LOVE you .. but when you realize that you got parents that abused and used and neglected you your whole life it's really hard at first but after a while you realize and accept the truth about it (not that they get a pass but it's for your own good) that they can't love (so in a way it's not their fault .. it is but it isn't worth always blaming them for the way they are) they aren't normal and never will be it's easier because then you don't EXPECT things to be normal (as they never have been but the desire always has) and you LEARN to play the game if you have to stay in contact or some can simply go no contact which is the easiest of all.
I agree. Covert narcissist are highly envious of the spot light is not on them. They will insert something about themselves and call it an example of what they experienced. It's all BS and purposeful. They are trying to gain narcassistic supply from your negative reaction. They will play the victim and accuse the real victim for reacting to their own reactive abu$ive behavior towards you. Then they will either stonewall you , and you end up apologizing for their behavior, or they act like nothing happened and carry on with a conversation. I agree with going no Contact. You have to go quietly and stratigicaly escape from Coverts ( according to Ross Rosenberg) they are highly dangerous calculating because they do not fully discard their supply. Coverts are prone to seeking high revenge tactics on their targets (compared to overts and malignants) Coverts also harbor silent internal rage , and when they receive a narcassistic injury they will unleashed that onto their victims who caused the injury. Covert narcassist are highly calculating, manipulative, and pure evil. Especially if they are in your family.
My Narc mother is constantly taking "LITTLE JABS" at me, ie giving me "backhanded compliments" about EVERY THING!!!!!! My physical appearance and character, mistakes or failures, successes or opportunities, friendships and love lives... What are your WORST examples or memories of thwaw?
They would sabotage anything good you would do with your child. They would attempt to take away or block anything good the two of you would share. They try to turn your child against you. Sad how the courts don't understand this. The child is a pawn. Maybe it is because they are jealous.
Reminds me of my mother. I’ve cultivated the idea that my daughter should go to community college first because we can’t afford all 4 years of university. My mom’s response (my mom who never paid for me to go to college, and who won’t pay for my daughter) starts telling my daughter that she’ll be a loser if she goes to community college. Mind you, I went to community college and got into a top ranked university and graduated with a great degree.
Yep my narc dad went to expensive nice college and when my son time to go narc paw paw says he can go to community college. Of course. No one can outshine him
Oh I have a good one for you I’ve been a stay-at-home mom for ever when ever I would try to use my real estate license that has been active for 15 years he would do very subtle little things that would sabotage my efforts. In the last year I not only got my certification to teach fitness but I’ve also been doing my real estate and the negativity and clear evidence that it is a threat to him is overwhelming! I’ll never forget the first showing that I had when I Started doing my real estate again he turned to me and says so are you nervous???? not in a supportive way in a sinister way!!
Ugh, yeah that sounds about right. The don’t want you to succeed with anything. So first congratulations on getting your license back and starting to work and the certification to teach fitness! Good for you! I’m sure you feel, as I often felt, you’re been successful *in spite of* their “support”. -Duane
thank you surviving dad i am a durviving mother and im trully so desperate i just cry many timez and feel so tired and discourage cause dealing with my sons narc dad. keep givinv us advice thanks again.
Definitely check out the bit.ly/MindsetForNarcRecovery playlist because I think it will really help you. The video on Hybrid No Contact is REALLY important because it gives you a framework for dealing with a narcissistic ex especially when you are supposed to interact and communicate with them because of the kids. If you get a chance I’d also recommend the Tuesday or Saturday livestreams - there is a super community of people who are regulars and they are very welcoming to new people. Just check out one of the replays to see if it is something you’d be interested in. Bottom line though Jacqueline this does get better. You are never going to get your ex to change but you will change the way you interact and respond and that will make things A LOT better. Just keep sticking with it - the thing is the narc goal is to get you to break. They have tremendous perseverance and just don’t seem to ever give up (think Terminator) but once you start to regain your own personal power their effectiveness really diminishes. -Duane
Duane, perhaps, part of the reason that your son doesn't do what you suggest, is precisely that they come from you as a father (I see this too...my son is 14 now) Now, I find it more effective to show ideas to start him off, ...then ask him how he got on a couple of days later. Just encouraging him to be creative, and saying it's valid, not for the results , but for the doing. Nex will always cut down creative people because they are all-pervasive pathological jealous. For your channel, also, I see your success as the doing, the quality of the content, not the stats and results. The results are in your well being and understanding and connection and sharing, and in our interactions, not in your stats and speed of growth. The Narcs projections are erroneous, off target, this is the nature of their grandiosity. They feel taller by standing on others. We must not let our children grow up with their self definition as projected by a Narc. 'Our job is not done' - absolutely, it is an ongoing healthy validation process that we can offer our kids. Perhaps we can share the idea that they do not have to 'attach' their wellbeing to the opinions of others, but rather to what they feel. Yesterday, I said to my son : ' Some people lift you up, and some people put you down. Which makes you feel better ?' ...he reacted a few minutes later by giving his opinion. Trust that they really do understand a lot more than we might give them credit for, and if we choose the moment to share an idea when they are present and listening, they will take it onboard. I find that if I ask him every couple of days : 'So, how are you feeling ?' , and give him time to respond, or not, that after a while he starts to take into account how he feels, and how what he is doing makes other people feel. I suppose this is cultivating empathy towards himself, as well as towards others, and learning to be present.
That's really great advice Robert about asking him how he is feeling. I think that is a good way of brining him in the moment and also helping him to *see* what is going on between the two different environments. I also agree a lot of it has to do with just the parent role and that I'm his dad so my thoughts and opinions are filtered through that lens. As I was reading through your comment I forgot that I used the channel as a example in this video but you are very correct. The growth may not be "fast" but it is good and the feedback has been wonderful and the recurring message that the videos are helping people is really the main point. I also feel very proud of what I've put out there so I hope I didn't loose that point in my comments. -Duane
But Duane...why look for fast growth ? Who cares ? I think more and more people will find your content and learn from it....in a couple of months you'll need a secretary :) ....have you taken a 30 min walk every morning as suggested ? hmmmm.
LOL I think I need a secretary NOW I'm swamped. No unfortunately I haven't been able too plus I'm fighting this cold - I do those live streams and then crash! But I have been focusing on breathing and that has been very helpful.
I saw this too. People don't like unasked for advice. He comes off a little controlling and this video came off as a way to slag off his ex. With his son, he needs to ask what his son wants and stop making the "suggestions". The son may just want to be left alone to figure things out for himself.
Hi Therese and welcome to the channel! I'm glad the video was helpful. It's sad how it's helpful to know you're not alone but at the same time unfortunate that other people are going through this same thing. -Duane
Dad Surviving Divorce For sure! I have been going through hell in many ways, starting in my childhood. I am blessed to have found unconditional love as an adult and to be able to pass it on to my kids. Keep up your good work!
That is awesome that you've found that. I finally found that myself and after going through the trauma of wrapping my head around it - because sadly to say it really did freak me out - it has been wonderful. -Duane
Dad Surviving Divorce The hardest thing for me right know is to accept the childhood I had and live with the ongoing smearing campaign whilst keeping up appearances towards my children and give them all the love and care they need.
Therese the balancing act on this is *really* hard to do. Plus dealing with the reality of HOW we got here and then to see our children going through the same thing we went through as kids ourselves. Just keep focusing on them and the improvements really help.
I remember remodeling a house ( I’m a contractor) my Narc and I bought (with my money) and as I’m working she would always point out small mistakes or inconsistencies. She would walk around looking for them, although she never helped out or worked on any of the projects...
You know Wayne I can relate to that - mine would do very similar things - walk around and point out everything wrong even in other people's homes. I remember making excuses saying, "She's just nervous she doesn't mean anything by it." Great example of subtle putdowns - and I'm sure if you ever questioned her on it she would she was just being helpful to make sure you caught those small mistakes... -Duane
what i am hearing here is passive-aggression. if i am wrong, please let correct me. this form of abuse is really hard to pick out. i had a cerebral covert narc who used this alot and i had no clue. i believe yours was cerebral covert also, duane. i had him over the other day. it was a nice visit. i love to journal all the narc things he does. things i didn't pick out before in the relationship. things other people down the road might come up with so i can know to stay away. when my narc ex was leaving, he said "we had a good time, KIND OF." putting the "kind of" part in there made me immediately start thinking our good time had some negativity when it did not. they say nice things then add in some garbage. i had a bad gut reaction when he said this. i am thrilled to notice these gut reactions. this is something i have to work on to be healthy. they lift you, then drop you. makes you question yourself and causes confusion. brings down your confidence. did your son get told by the narc that he is a good writer, BUT it is such a competitive field. he would have to be really special to get anywhere? see the positivity, then the negativity? i have a few more examples that were used on me. i love you, but....... it was nice watching the movie together. we didn't even have a fight. you did a good job, but you took way too long. he went to trim the bushes. i was glad. he took off 3 foot of the greenery from the bottom. looked like suckers on a stick. i was fuming. said he would grocery shop with me. the first aisle, he took off and sat in the car. i had to go look around for him. took me on a nice atv ride, then scared me because he went way too fast. a deer ran out from the woods. he knows i hate to go fast. up and down. hidden negativity in with the positive. this is not good. passive aggressive is abuse. covert abuse.
Those are all really good examples of this type of abuse Mary. What I think you'll also notice is that as time goes on they become less covert and more obvious but by that time we've been conditioned to the behavior so we don't notice because it feels normal. It's a really strange balance because there are times that it is normal and/or good for a parent to say things like "you're a good writing but it's a competitive field" but there is a subtle difference - there is a way to say it and be constructive and a way to be destructive. I can also tell you that IF we say anything that the ex can turn into a negative they absolutely will. There have been times parent teacher meetings where someone will be said taken out of context of something I've said to validate her smear campaign of me. It has taken me years to worth through all of that and repair the damage that the ex has done but basically it's her own actions that are helping. I really just hope my son starts to understand this is her just being emotionally abusive to him and can take away some of the power she has over his emotions. -Duane
***** may i suggest something you already know, duane, but it is hard to remember when you are in the thick of it. step back and think logically not emotionally. the narc abuse is so much clearer with a logical mindset. i say this to tell your dear son. sometimes i have to look back at what the narc said when he is gone. bingo. word salads, circular conversations, passive-aggressive, minimizing, etc. see ya!
I have to be really careful about that - he knows but he's still not ready for me to push to much on this. We had a conversation earlier today about who was "smarter" - something his mother had said to him about people who were smarter than others with the implication being that she was smarter than me (it was passive aggressive). Like a moron I asked him who he thought was smarter and he immediately went into the mode that we were the same. It's actually really weird to watch. So we have conversations but I'm really careful what I do say to him.
Wow, the mother cutting down his ideas is classic. Well done on breaking free. I had a life long connection to a covert narciccist. When My mother commented to her on how well I did something she said "Nice" but she didn't know I saw her face as she said that. She was cringing. Like it hurts her to see me doing well.
Hi Marie-Louise and welcome to the channel! Yeah that is a pretty good example of being able to actually “see” the reaction of a narcissist. It’s like, “How dare you outshine anything I’m doing”. Very complicated people. The hard part is watching the kids go through it and then burry it and push it out of their minds like it never happened. I understand because they *need* to love and want their mom to love them. Thanks for the comment Marie-Louise! -Duane
Wow, thank you for the response. I can relate even though I don't have kids it upsets me to watch this person cleverly cause self-doubt to members of my family. That is my big problem right now. They can't even see what she is doing to them and I see a look of confusion coming over their face. I just want to expose this person and warn everyone.
It is really tough ESPECIALLY when you can see what is going on while everyone else is blinded. The other problem is NORMALLY no one is really going to believe you. Sometimes it is hard to be able to see through these people because when you watch friends and loved ones fall under their spell it is just really difficult to watch. The only thing you can *try* to do is point things out but once someone starts to fall for their illusion there really isn’t much more you can do. But I COMPLETELY understand what you’re saying. I went through that phase the first couple of years in my situation where I wanted her exposed and held accountable. Now I just want my life to be as chaos (and narc) free as possible. -Duane
Thank you for your understanding. It actually helps me to hear that you at first wanted to expose and that now you just want to move on and be as narc free as possible. Its really been getting to me these past three weeks since I found out about covert narcissism. I've known for a long time but it is just really in my face now. But when you said these words it impinged, "I just need to get on with my life" and have a less contact as possible like Weddings and Funerals. So thank you for making me aware that I can move on. All the best and thank you for doing what you are doing to educate us. Knowledge of it really helps.
Not narcissism-related, but I’m interested in writing myself, and would love to know more about some of the project ideas you suggested to your son. The blog, for instance. What sort of blog was it-a forum for his fiction stories, or did he mainly write nonfiction about things that interested him? And if you don’t mind my asking, what is his disability? I ask because I’m in a wheelchair myself.
I have a great example of this I'm living with a narcissist covert narcissist I lived for 13 months I paid all the bills every dime I made I spent either on bus living or directly on her nothing on my own personal effects so I'm an electrician and I got this great side work so I had to work on Sundays for a few weeks and I was so excited I was going to make all this money to spend on her and us so I texted her Center photos and so happy and I thought that she would be proud of meme earning all this extra money and her response was good for you that said it all
We are all works-in-progress, and those who use that against us are clearly not "on our side", but they are trying to undermine our progress forward each step of the way by chipping away at it little-by-little. Keep up what you're doing with your son...take the higher road w/ his mother whenever you can, which will ultimately earn your son's respect. Keep giving him tools to use to discern who is really on his team and who is not (without always making the argument that it is his mother who is actually probably his worst enemy). Help him gather a collection of "come backs", if you will, for any nay-sayers in his life. For example "Oh, well, that's not up to my standard so I can't even look at it" he can say "As your son, I would appreciate your unconditional support by looking at it anyway and trying to find things you APPRECIATE about it, rather than always pointing out every error. Sometimes us children just want our parents to acknowledge our hard work." These little "comebacks" will help him learn how to set boundaries with others in his life as well. His mother is teaching him that he should always be second fiddle to women in his life. Instead, he should be getting the message that all relationships are an equal partnership of give and take and mutual respect and love. Just as we would never tell our loved one "Hey, that outfit makes your butt look fat", even if we can convince ourselves that we are "helping" them, we should (unless the outfit is legitimately WAY too inappropriately clinging to their behind...and even then you'd want to couch it very delicately) point out that we like the color choice. That is what you do for people you love and respect when you want to be sensitive to their feelings.
Excellent advice Me From Maine and I really appreciate the suggestions. It is still going to take him some time to realize that his mother is truly his enemy but he just isn't really to see it yet. There are days and moments where he gets it and he understands it but it is also something that he just doesn't want to believe. I know he is going to have to go through more pain and hurt before he can truly start to see through the fog. Welcome to the channel and thank you for the comment! I really liked your *comebacks*! -Duane
It's hard even as adults to admit to ourselves that a loved one never really loved us. That's a huge blow to our sense of security. I'd say that so long as he is starting to put some pieces together that his mother is dysfunctional (at best) in her ability to demonstrate love to him, then he will at least on some level be a bit more protected by it for now.
Very true Me and I think you're right - my main hope is that he will see these patterns and be able to detect them in his future relationships. Unfortunately he is talking very similar to the way I was at his age when primed me for a false relationship because I was looking for that illusion so when the love bombing occurred I wanted it so badly (even though I knew something was wrong I just wouldn't allow myself to see it). -Duane
I am wondering if there are any good books he could read? I have enjoyed Toxic In-Laws but that wouldn't quite apply even though it does talk about different tricks toxic folks use...good luck helping him find a better path :)
Hmm that is an *excellent* idea Me - there is a relationship book that I recommend to people that I think would be good - I have then for the *long* period this week so I'll have to talk to him about it. -Duane
Like Constructive CRITICISM! Which makes you think they have YOUR BEST INTEREST AT HEART! I'VE BEEN DEALING WITH THIS FOR YEARS, NEVER KNEW THIS IS WHAT WAS HAPPENING AND NOW THAT I HAVE A CHILD I'VE REALIZED MY FAMILY DOING IT TO MY CHILD SO I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GO NO CONTACT, VERY DIFFICULT
Yeah TT I felt for that trap *many times*. It would always be that underhanded compliment or criticism - just enough to break you down but not enough to be completely obvious what they were doing. And if you questioned them on it all hell breaks loose. -Duane
Was she setting him up to be The Golden Child, ya think? I can relate so much to this. When I earned my Master's Degree, my narcs stated things like they had no idea that I was even working on one, or just ignored it, etc.
Good question Grace - I think he had been for a really long time but I think that is starting to change. I think that has been difficult for him too because he was used to being the focus of everything before. I think the change has also enabled or encouraged his sisters to pick on him now and his mother doesn't do anything to stop it. It makes it complicated when they transition here because I have to get them stop. -Duane
Narcs are jealous . They want you to fail. If you expect a compliment or words of encouragement, or admiration Will never happen. They have A warped mind and will only Try to hurt you by ignoring You and putting down your Accomplishments. They are Reptiles/roaches.
Absolutely Ashely those subtle putdowns are like daggers in our hearts and spirits. It may take a while to escape, or to find the courage to, but when we do our lives starts to come back. -Duane
Ugh Kay G I almost hate to answer this question but I will. We met in Aug of 1989, were married in Apr of 1990, I filed for separation in Aug of 2011 and the divorce was final (I changed from separation to divorce) in Jun of 2012. There had always been "problems" but I didn't recognize or see it really until the summer of 2010 everything really came to a head in May 2011 and I was done by Aug. It still took me another two/three years to learn about narcissism and it wasn't until then that I really had some closure on my entire marriage and relationship. So it took *years* for me to realize - I guess technically it was decades. I hope that answers your question. -Duane
Dad Surviving Divorce wow so it took as long as three years for it to sink in for you that's a long time to feel this horrendous way bit worrying seeing as i m still trying to come to grasp with it all my self
Coverts come off as kind and humble, which makes it difficult to spot them right away. Rest assured, that almost always overts expose them for who they are
Can u get over the hump that causes the damage & how ? I use to do some things I don't do anymore I'm disabled mental limitations vary creative arts craft's creative problem solver no calculate
I'm beginning to understand the game My narcissist plays with me it has had devastating effects on my relationship with my x boyfriend but he absolutely refuses to Let Her Go and seek help for himself so I had no choice but to leave him
I love your videos 😍. Kudos from Alaska. Ok I would love to see a video on gay narcissistic people without children. Because my partner and I don’t have children. Most videos on this subject has marriage men/ women and children. Can you talk to Narcissistic people and give them ultimatums ??? Meet in the middle? Tell them or else you will do a tell all about them? And their actions to everyone?
Unfortunately! Well - maybe since it is predictable it helps us fight each other to finally get some closure and understanding. When we are in a vacuum it is worse because it just doesn't make any sense. -Duane
Here's an example. She was so poor at responding to communication. She would ignore some phone calls or text messages. Or, she would cut a phone call short by saying, "Hey, I have to go, but I'll call you right back", but never would. She is 17 years younger than me. She said my desire for her to change her responsiveness to communication must be a "generational" thing. Like others have said: death by 1,000 tiny cuts.
Sometimes I wonder if my manager is covert or if I am overreacting. He has said things such as"did the bleach get to your brain(because a co worker didn't understand something). Also said to another co-worker that "his dreads were pulled to tight because he didn't understand something). One more incident is when he tripped over a small cord of a tiny heater that a co-worker uses when its cold that "he hopes it breaks" In addition, I have never seen him laugh out loud. I mean really laugh. Maybe smirk, smile, and a haha. Then a customer asked questions about a printer, and he said "I already answered her question"
Please, please don't comeback to the narc. I did, after many years, thinking age would have change things....but....it was wost, and it didn't help that I was aging too and less resilient......Yes; I went away again...
Who would say that to their child? She just didn't want to take the time to see where he was coming from. It's sad for him, but hopefully in a careful way, you can help your children know that her behaviour isn't normal, healthy, and only something people are really identifying now in the past few years.
Hi Ali and welcome to the channel! Well, a suspected narcissist who can't think about how their words and actions impact even there own children would say that. Ali he was doing pretty good and then right after his 18th birthday he's taken a back slide - hopefully it is just the stress of becoming an adult, graduating high school and signing up for college. We have a few more days before the graduation is complete so hopefully things will start going the right direction shortly after that. It's just really hard, especially with a covert narcissistic, because they drift into the normal and not normal behaviors so it's *much harder* to detect. -Duane
Dad Surviving Divorce well even if your son has some difficulties progressing for a while, I would probably say - don't stress and just roll with it. He's undergone abuse from the time he was a baby really - from the woman that is supposed to love him unconditionally. I sound like a Nazi saying this - but my heart pains to know all the horrors children suffer - and so I believe in sterilization until a person can be tested to see if they're worthy of the privilege. You're the only sane support and comfort you son can have. So his experiences may surface differently.
These are one of the biggest give aways to me. They won't slip up anywhere else but if they demonstrate this, even if it's a false red flag on my end, if I pick up on like 3 of them i'm done. gtfo no second chance . onward and upward. no more surrounding ourselves with toxic people who ruin the quality of our naturally happy live-styles.
I have another great example she knew that I was a little self-conscious about my my belly being a little round so she would mention it everyday so one trick she had was she went out and bought me a shirt that was like two sizes too small a dress shirt and every week she would have me put this thing on and obviously I wouldn't be able to button it so she would nag me about going to the gym and get rid of that belly and then she would triangulate about oh so and so is in great shape why can't you be like him I wish you were like him you're not trying hard enough and she made me believe that someday I was going to fit into this medium shirt when I was in extra large crazy
I have some experience in dealing with this kind of thing... Some important points to make- 1) Its a regular pattern, trying to pin all sorts of negative ideas about you which are disconnected, i.e calling you an alcoholic, then changing the subject to claim you're no good with people, then changing again to claim you're arn't clean... all of these subjects have nothing to do with each other, so it shows they're likely only trying to put you down to feel good (linked to the second point). This is the result of projective identification, they've created a false image of you. 2) The narc goes through highs when belittling others, to downs when they're disproven. This also gets worse with time. Using my examples from the previous point, I could make reasoned arguments to disprove them, or involve someone else in the conversation to back me up that I don't drink a lot, am pretty good with people, and show them around the house to see how tidy it is. The narc would enrage. All that supply has been denied and they are left feeling worse than when they started. This can be pretty easy to spot as the narc tries to put your down and smiles, then is refuted and looks distressed. It really is that simple. 3) Gaslighting will be used to try and cover up the narc's true goal in all this. Keep a mental pattern of their behaviour to ascertain if they are just looking to attack for self-gratification, don't fall for their attempts to evade criticism. Its the only game they have and they won't stop playing for anything.
@@DSD I learnt to explain the Narcissist's behaviour in clear logical terms, which may not quite work on them as they live in a land of lies and denial, but it certainly helps us to understand them and be less affected. Feel free to use any info I post in a video!
Don't beat yourself up hindsight is 20/20 that's why they say live and learn , all is fair in Love and War, fool me once shame on you shame me twice shame on me
i cant stand it. you have very useful information but by the time you are using pronouns at the end of one thought, i don't know what you are talking about.
"Pay close attention to those who don't clap when you win"
Very good point Narcmare!
Narcmare Aware I like that!
Hi Shortlady82 and welcome to the channel! Narcmare always has some really spot on observations and perspectives! -Duane
Yep. I remember getting nothing but a smirk after telling her I got a good performance review and raise.
i graduated highschool in 2006 at 44, i had to quit school at 14 to be a mom. and He could care less no card no gift,acted funny when my son said were going to her graduation.when my dad died no condolence AT ALL NO SORRY NO HUG NOTHING
Covert narcs can say and/or do something that might look to an outsider like a compliment or helpful action while simultaneously & intentionally driving a knife through your heart. It is freaking amazing how they do it.
Absolutely Laura! When I *try* to give examples it's hard to even formulate the words because it is difficult to come up with the double bind wording. But they can do it on the fly without any real thought - it's just their normal programmed responses and behavior. -Duane
Dad Surviving Divorce I have an example. My husband's ex is a covert Narc. It's him who got the custody (boy, 8y.o) because she moved to another city. She once did a "compliment" to him by saying : "Thank you for doing your best to take care of our son". She nevers compliments him. So he didn't reply. The next time, she twisted her words by writing "I repeat, thank you for doing YOUR best to take care of our son, even if it's not MY best based on MY values". I can give you dozen and dozen of examples like that. But you can already see that an outsider would see nothing wrong in what they say, because nothing is directly said... While the target gets the subliminal critic of the way he parents, plus a put down of his values to rise hers. Fortunatly I've been with many narc myself and very well informed now. I helped him free his mind from that (excuse me the term) creature. As for me, those people don't deserve to be called human beings. Sorry for my english I am french. Have a nice day
You brought up a really good point Juliana and it is another example of how these people are able to manipulate our emotions. As you said most people cannot see the nuances of a comment or conversation. So when and/or if we respond negatively we will definitely be the ones that look like the bad guy or emotionally unstable guy. That's where we just have to Focus and not take the bait. It is really a bizarre world and situation that we have to live because their behaviors just so well basically evil. No worries about your English your comment make complete sense and I understood what you were talking about. To let me welcome you to the channel if I have not already done that! -Duane
Dad Surviving Divorce Oh thank you Duane :) I have to mention that my husband and I we love everything you say in your videos. You are so real, humble and down to eath, we can easily relate to you. We feel we can trust your experience and we feel sorry for you, yet you have that an incredible strengh. We spent so much time trying to understand, to talk, reason and so and so, change ourselves, become like her, change again, be assertive and so and so. He didn't want to believe what she is capable of doing, he thought he could change her by showing her how to be good to people. Most of the time he does what is the kid's best interest so she knows how to trick him using his sense of sacrifice. Our story is unrealistic yet it is true... So glad we're not alone in this and we can talk without being labelled as crasies or the abusers, especially after the smear campaign she did. Thank you again, we appreciate! Have a nice day.
Juliana I think one of the hardest things about this process is coming to terms with what the other person really is. It is just so hard to believe that another human being can be like this and be so destructive two their ex and to their children. It sounds like you guys have really tried everything to make things better and I think all of us have to go through that to some degree. But at the end of the day we have to come to the realization that they just won't change they're incapable of seeing the damages they're doing and there really isn't anything that we can do to make them better. I can completely understand what you're talking about with him being used because of his sacrifice for the children as I went through the same thing. But after a while you realize that focusing on your kids is really the right move and if somehow they get some benefit from it it really doesn't matter.
Thank you very much for all the kind words and the support! I am really grateful that I have been able to take this is very traumatic experience and turn it into something positive that has been able to help others going through this. I can remember how long I felt, how isolated I felt, and how this nightmare just didn't seem like it was ever going to end. So if I sharing my experience and my perspective if I can give somebody bit of hope and maybe shine some light to help them find their way then I think I'm really doing what I intended to do with this channel. -Duane
It's the slow-drip administering of toxic- negativity. Death by 1000 tiny cuts.
Hi Zoltar (cool name by the way) and welcome the channel! Yeah that is so very true - I spent over 20 years in that relationship and couldn’t understand why I felt so bad (thought it was just me and that I was chronically depressed - well technically I probably was). Hope you’re doing okay! -Duane
My mother.
PERFECTLY -DESCRIBED.
Absolutely. From the outside person looking in, it all seems benign but always said it’s like a slow drip feed of condescension that only pokes at your character. No one else gets it. I thought I was being over sensitive until I found out other people talked about the same things!
no contact is really the only way.
Hi Alison welcome to the channel! I absolutely agree with you with the only exception being if you have children. When kids are involved no contact it's typically impossible and you have to do hybrid no contact coupled with Grayrock techniques. -Duane
Right
An example from my childhood: After extreme effort studying I got a 99% on my math test. I was crushed when my Dad said, "Very good. Next time, make it 100!" Soul crushing, still hurts and that was over 50 years ago. To this day I have a habit of trying to please others for outside validation. People who "take the shine off" suck so hard! I am in my 60's now and have awoken to the fact that I need to learn to feel good about myself.
That is a really good example of this type of behavior. The problem is even if you said something it would be easy for them to defend, "Why are you being so sensitive I just know you can do better and I'm trying to *help* you, why are you so defensive. Of course 99% is good, I just think you can do better." Then you have your mind spinning because "maybe they are right" or maybe it wasn't meant to be mean. These people are masters at slowing tearing you down until you start doing it to yourself! Before I end let me welcome you to the channel and thank you for your comment! -Duane
it hurts still cuz that was probably the very moment he finally broke you. it broke you because of all the narc abuse leading up to that point that wasn't processed. its so painful going through life as the unloved daughter and of course the knowledge of what was happening to us wasn't accessible until recently. im 45 and thought all these years i was completely nuts because of my father, and horrible adult relationships. i sound ridiculous when i talk about my past relationships to the point a normal person would be like yeah thats how toxic people talk about their target ex's but its all true. if only i knew what was going on and how to avoid falling into narc traps in my 20s my life would have gone a lot better. the craziness i put up with and stayed with all cuz i thought it was all me is just bizarre, i wish i could call steven king and let him include some of these memories a book. cuz to even tell a friend would be a big risk so i hold it all in. lol
i bet your dad said that cuz he knows he couldn't get a 99 or 100, so he had to crap on you cuz he couldn't crap on himself
I would get over a 100 and she would say big deal u don't even try and get 100 every time. Claimed she needed a smart man, but got insecure when she realized I was smarter than her. Lol
Thanks for sharing...I hope that your father's narcisism made you a successful individual....I think that there is a side effect of narcisistic parent: we might outgrow them and thougout that process learn how to handle and/or discard them....there are a bunch of narcisistic parents duped in elderly homes.....righteously so!!!
It's usually followed by the narcissistic smirk: their "Dupers Delight"
sometimes it is
They are always chipping away at your confidence in order to bring you into bondage to themselves. Sometimes the chipping is small and sometimes they try to use a jack hammer. "Your doing great now but there was a time I was ashamed of you." "Your doing great now but it may not always be that way." "You will never amount to anything without me, you will come crawling back". "Your green behind the ears". "Your too young to know anything". "You and your wife are doing well now but it may not always be that way". "I see you are going to learn something". Fear and fault-finding propaganda is what they spew, trying to steal your confidence and rule over you. Thank God I am free today, by Jesus, I really am free. It is so wonderful to be out from under that garbage.
There's a woman at the care home where I work who tries to create illusions where I feel incompetent compared to her work. A good example is when I was getting a resident up and ready for breakfast who is very argumentative due to her dementia and just difficult in general so it took me a while to get her up and dressed and the woman in question had gotten up three residents and she tried to say I was too slow and incompetent when in reality the three residents she got up were almost completely independent and were very friendly and got on with the routine so of course she would have seemed more competent than me but really she just had an easier time than I did. So be careful of those who actively are just bullshitting and are just illusionists to appear superior when in reality they are just struggling as much as you. Psychological abuse is rampant. If you ever start feeling like you're less than, then someone is pretending.....
good insight ...i have been married 38 years to my covert narsicist wife...all those little twisted digs ...i put up with...and. internalized ...awake for 8 months and at first i would stop her every time she would dig at me... unbelievable how often they do this...she needs deliverance from this narsicist/ Jezebel demon..which possessed them very young because of the hurt they were enduring as children and these evil spirits came to the child as a counterfeit holy spirit ..".i will help you " crazy stuff...the book restored to freedom by Nelson Schuman... explains this...
Oh my god. I totally feel for your son. As a daughter of the most covert Narc I've ever known in my whole 28 years of existence, I totally understand. I, too am creative but I literally have nothing to show for it. Never understood why. I would start things or think about starting things all the time. But that's as far as it would go.
And now I know why. She was so extremely neglectful, there would never have been a moment where she would notice my art, drawings, etc. I can even play the piano, but not as well as I should be at my age. When I would play the piano, her and my brother would turn up the volume on the TV that was in the same room as my piano to passively agressively tune me out.
My mother only used my piano recital (the only ONE I had) to invite her then boyfriend to show me off. I never had another recital again after that. I think that stuff really traumatized me. I always had so much self doubt about this ability of mine.
Recently I took an advanced piano course at my local community college. I would have anxiety before every recital, but...believe it or not...I got an A on every single one, and passed the course with flying colors.
It is so important to encourage our children. I know first hand what this can do and like you said it is extremely damaging. But again, you can't pinpoint it. For example, outsiders would say, well your mom bought you an expensive piano and she did attend your recital! Yeah...but, why did she do these things? It was never for me to be successful. It was for her to look successful
Sorry for the long comment but I really was looking for a channel on youtube specifically about Covert narcs to make sure I am making the right decision and yours popped up and I am *so* thankful!
Well done you - Onward and upwards - Don't look back - Embrace the here and now and what you and yours have to look forward to - Take care J
@@jaywatson6261 yes, but we can be ourselves someday in the kingdom of heaven
@@nicksanders9148 As a Christian I totally agree that we have that wonderful day when we will be with our maker. However, Father God would also endeavour, in His infinite wisdom, to ensure that we, as our authentic selves, live our best life and pursue our purpose as earthly beings in the here and now on this planet! Jeremiah 29 vs 11 - ' For I know the plans I have for you.....'
@@nicksanders9148We'll be more human than we ever were. It's incomprehensible.
My Mother was a covert narcissist. She only gave praise when she was manipulating, other than this, she constantly pitted people against eachother and criticized, all the while attempting to look like the victim.
It’s so horrible when a person, especially a parent, utilizes praise (the thing we are so desperate for) just for manipulation. It is a truly horrible thing to do to someone - I know there are more “horrible things” but this systematically destroys you from the inside and then tears your life apart in so many other ways. It’s sad because your mother could turn that energy and effort to good so much more positive and good would be created. It is really hard to break from this upbringing so you should be really proud of yourself for the growth that you’ve made. There are a lot of people that are trapped in their environment (and future relationships) that never make it out! You did and that is a huge accomplishment! -Duane
This is my Mother too! I had to go No Contact with her because all she
wants to do is play mind games and hurt me. These types are Sadistic.
They really enjoy hurting people emotionally and making themselves out
to be the victim. They love to set you up and see you fail. They will smear
you to anyone who will listen! All they care about is getting "Supply" which
is the "high" they get from hurting others. And they know exactly what they
are doing! The only way to protect yourself is to master the Grey Rock technique and learn Not to React Emotionally because they "feed on it".
And of course...go No Contact if you can.
Mine never praised me. Never
Hugged me. I kept going back
For more. Trauma bonding.
My siblings were her flying
Monkeys. She was an absolute very dirty mean
Person toward me not my
Other siblings because they
Are just as mean and dirty
Like her.
Just another example. I just translated a book, and I was really happy about getting the job, also the topic really interested me, I got paid well, so I was happy overall. I told a friend about it who I thought was a "good" friend. She asked me about the title. Then she laughed and said: "Doesn't sound like a bestseller to me." I felt like kicked into the stomach. Considering that I had just expressed how happy I was! Was it possible that she was THAT jealous? Most likely. This reminded me of a lot of other experiences of the same kind, all though my childhood and the rest of my life. Thank you for the video, and thanks for being such a considerate Dad.
Hi Troll23 (crazy name BTW) and welcome to the channel! That is a really good example and I’ve had similar with a particular friend of mine. These type of people just have a hard time handling someone else having something good and will do everything they can to *take the shine* off of it. The problem when we’ve been surrounded by this behavior (as you mentioned - and I had the same) is that we begin to expect it and rationalize it. Botton line, it’s not *normal* behavior and if we can’t *talk* to these people about this we need to phase them out - or at least know they are going to do it so we don’t *let them* take away our victory. Speaking of that - congratulations on translating a book - that is awesome that you were selected and well compensated for your work - HOPEFULLY it will lead to even more jobs! -Duane
Thanks for the welcome, Duane. This has never happened to me before: being acknowledged by a channel. (If I was a troll, I would not call myself that, I thought. But the joke is lost on most people.) Anyway, another give-away is unsolicited advice: "I am only telling you so that you will do better next time." You know in your gut that the person did not mean well, but you have been trained early to feel guilty for being too sensitive, so you suck it up. Advice giving is always hidden criticism: if you were smart, I did not have to tell you. It is such a common practice of control over others, camouflaged as "helping". But if you pay attention to your feelings, you sense the put down - and you cringe.
Sure Troll23 I really do make every attempt to respond/reply to every comment. Sometimes I fall behind and I've missed a few that just fall through the cracks. Ugh that *unsolicited advice* that is the main subtle put down that they use. I've felt the same thing - you hear it and it feels like someone dropped dirt in your drink... Very annoying. -Duane
Oh, my...I have been facing an entire family of these people except my grandfather. Someone very close to me broke my heart criticising everything I did...even down to how I put my dishes away. My mother was one and influenced my father to behave the same way. I was a violinist and received a full 5 1/2 year scholarship to a well known school to take me through the masters program. Not one word of encouragement. I gave the only convocation (solo concert)at that school that had ever been given. by a freshman. but my family didn't come to hear it. I could go on and on, but it's over now. I ended it with my family, my sister, my grandmother, and never achieved what I could have. I am so happy now, and have a wonderful and caring husband. What a blessing. There's so much more, but I won't bore you. Just know that you can be so very happy and have your own life.
Duane, just picked up on something you mentioned there re your ex and son ....about her commenting on his writing not being up to her standard. Everything, I mean everything, is a competition with these people. They compete with you, and even their children. They are horrific. I remember an incident at my child's school in a meeting with the Principal. My ex brought inappropriate information to the Principal's attention in front of my child. Tears started to pop out of her eyes. He just sat there with a satisfied look on his face. Nill on Empathy, nill on loyalty. The damage that is being done to our children is soul destroying for me.
And because they have zero empathy they can not even understand what they are doing or why it would even be a problem. Grace it is *really* difficult to watch what is going on but *try* to remember that *you* are the only one that can really help your daughter through this - it is still going to be hard and you are not going to be able to protect her from everything but you are her rock. Your ex is the one picking up rocks and throwing them at her. -Duane
Yes, they do, and it's SO heartbreaking. It's harmed my son academically for the past 2 years, while the N--ex loves how it hurts him, so that he can feel hope our son will fail, as he had. smh...This year, things are looking up. Praying kiddo keeps moving the right direction, so that he will accomplish all he dreams of.
It is so true they are always competing! I was living out of the country and we always planned to get our Master's and return to the States. Well she ended up not coming with me after bad fight and then she ghosted me. The day I was leaving the country she called me crying. I felt so bad because I didn't want that. But I knew there was something not right because of all our struggles. I got back in the States that day. We kept talking. One night we were on skype and she ended up saying something hurtful and not taking any responsibility for anything and down playing everything. She then ghosted me yet again. During this time I was looking for an online Master's... I even told her about because I thought is was best since I could move anywhere and study. She was also looking for a master's.
After another vanish act I did not speak to her for another month. When we spoke again, I told her I had applied for that master's and she flips out on me saying, "You didn't tell me! You didn't tell me! why didn't you tell me!!" I was like, " How could I, if you were ignoring me again for a month!" Just crazy stuff! She was competing with me because she didn't get an answer answer to any of her applications! Soon after, she would get a full time scholarship and she felt so much better about herself! Her ego went through the roof even calling me lazy.
After she moved to the States, she basically lost interested in me, started saboting everything and discarded me. On top of that she thinks she is the abused victim. Why was this relationship such a struggle for me? Now, she found another guy at school with money. Will she respect him more?
Omg! My ex would get compliments from other me about how beautiful I was and he would get mad and follow it with something like yeah they don't know how crazy you are. Which I would get crazy because of the games, and head trips he would inflict on me. I was broken and out of control under his control. I had never in my life experienced such a person. Im still recovering.
My dad is a narc. Anytime you say anything...he says the opposite. If u say you feel bad...he tells u you might die...he loves to talk about how everyone else is great but you. For many years I thought he didn't know what he was saying or doing. But after watching narc videos...holy crap...that's him! Sometimes he does give ok advice so hard to tell...but he is very selfish. I went no contact cuz he was too toxic for me and very upsetting. Its hard though.
Yes! My ex would give me crap for not going to college with 3 kids under the age of 6, then when I would talk about wanting to and the things I was interested in, he told me I wouldn't be able to handle it.
I hope you did it Gwen! and if you haven’t you can still do it. Do it for you and to be a model for your kids. And also don’t share your dreams with those who’ll rain on your parade. There’s power & quiet strength in moving in silence. All the best ♥️♥️♥️
Your children are fortunate to have you as a father! Both my parents are narcs and they have attempted to ruin every single event.
One time I was moving to a different state, called parents to let them know I arrived, was all happy and bubbly...then father said he needed my address, so that he could send a life insurance policy for me to sign...then told me I probably had only 10 more years of life and I was going to cause my sister a financial burden of burying me...because he and mother probably would be dead by then and I was forcing my sister to pay to bury me. WTF! I cried and cried on a day that was exciting for me!
Thank you Gypsy Julie I appreciate that! It is really crazy how parents can ruin pretty much anything. Parents with this disorder can find unique and amazing ways to show us that we mean very little to them. I hope now that you know and understand their power has been diminished. Personally I just make a concerted effort to stay away from these type of people because they just do not have a constructive place in our lives. -Duane
This really scary shit.. :-/
Yeah it really is John...
I am the adult child of a Covert Narc. (now deceased) What helped me protect myself was the "grey rock technique" (not sure where I first learned it from) but it worked! I chose to keep in minimal contact because she was elderly and I needed to have a way to protect myself from comments such as you describe.gre Love your channel! Keep going!! The best thing we can do for our kids is be their cheerleader and encourager every day!
*describe
Hi Pam! Yeah removing their access to our heart and soul is really key. Even if you understand what you are dealing with those constant subtle putdowns can really wear on you. Thank you for the support! -Duane
"are you sure you want to do that?"..."I don't think that's a good idea," those were my favorite phrases ugh...narcissists just don't want you to do anything well or use your talents...Bc it's not THEM doing those things..now I just try to remain positive, cheerful and optimistic..sometimes sarcastically I'll just say don't listen to anyone about doing good things for yourself, it's your life
Lisa that is a really good mantra to say to yourself - everyone needs to learn to *self validate* especially when we are surrounded by toxic people. It is no wonder how hard it is for people to succeed because they have a constant barrage of negative comments and putdowns. If our own parents (or spouse) also do that it makes it even harder because we start to believe that we just aren't that "good" nor deserving of success. I hope that you have been able to break free from this and achieve success for yourself! -Duane
+Dad Surviving Divorce Duane, oh yes my mother as well as my ex spouse are like this..my ex spouse is hybrid no contact and my mom I have no contact with in the last few months, very peaceful now
Sounds like my situation as well - it does improve our environment and yes it is much more peaceful!
yep they are jealous yet too lazy to do anything themselves for real success. I lost weight and my mom won't acknowledge it at all except with anger. are you kidding me? who does that? a narc! my husband did too so she says "I noticed Cary (not real name) lost weight .. WHY????!!!!! she wants to think it's because he found out he has a disease or something. unreal. she said "I'm not stupid and I'm not blind I see that you guys aren't eating like gluttons anymore!!!! all in an angry hateful LOUD voice. only a narc would get mad at people trying to get healthy. and btw we never did eat like gluttons that was a projection. she's old and 100 lbs overweight and hates it but won't do anything about it. I just smiled and said we just decided we wanted to get healthy. and she says 'yeah right' or something like that .. wow .. just wow. no "good for you" glad to see it .. nothing positive oh never that! :( But I do get plenty from other normal people so I'm good :)
I was fortunate, my son saw through his mother before I did. He referred to her as two faced. Still, she would take the wind out of his sails when he wanted to do things if they did not meet / match what her dreams were for him. So, he learned to not talk with her about this. He would come to me quietly. That lead to another issue where she is always spying on the two of us and tries to create wedges between us.
I really appreciate you talking about this from a man's perspective.
There are a lot of women talking about grandiose narcissists on youtube, but it is such a relief to hear someone like you talk about this species of narcissism. You clearly understand this type of abuse.
I'm having a hard time finding help through a therapist, since the covert narcissist that I know is a therapist herself. I'm trying ACA, but it is hard since it is not private. I don't know what to do. I cannot go no contact, and grayrock seems impossible. It is a recipe for hopelessness.
My parents never said one word when I got my B.A. It was completely ignored. No accomplishment of mine was ever mentioned at all.
My last narc "boyfriend" had told me he hated his mom. I noticed when he did his weightlifting his mom dotingly said to him "That's good Danny!" He was 29 years old and she was praising this man for lifting a weight. He despised her. It was such a contrast to MY mom who never once said one nice word to me about what I accomplished.
The put downs from my ex covert narc came more and more frequently and were more and more vicious as time went on. I can't believe how I kept talking to him, but I was programmed to take abuse.
I've had to deal with several different narcissists in my life, one of the worst of whom was my mother-in-law. She never truly accepted or cared for any of her four daughters-in-law, and made sure we knew it. She did things--some subtle, some blatant--to let us know that "my boys" were special, she OWNED them, and she drove wedges between each son and their wife to insure that she would always hold the trump card when it came to their loyalty and love. She made sure we knew that we weren't really part of the family; we were just tolerated.
Holidays were the worst, especially Christmas. She gave some people a lot of gifts, others just a few. Many of the gifts she did give me only served to prove how little she knew me and cared about me. For many years, I would go home we left her house and cry. I tried so hard to please her, only to be repeatedly hurt and rejected. For the last 10 to 15 years, I decided to limit my visits and time with my in-laws. I only went over on Thanksgiving, Christmas, and Easter, and I never stayed more than 3 hours. If my husband and kids wanted to stay, that was fine, but I went home. It was the closest I could get to no contact while they were alive, but it gave me a great deal of peace. She died a year ago, and I am free! The really weird thing was that, at her funeral, her pastors talked about what a warm, generous, kind person she was! I wanted to throw up. I waa afraid someone would come up to me later and say how wonderful she was. However, here in the South, we respond to situations like this--where it would be impolite to tell the truth--by saying, "Bless her heart. She was 'special.'" 😉
I learned about narcissism and predatory behavior after I had met someone again which raised a lot of questions in his behavior. Also, I told him about plans I had for myself and he said "If you think, this is the right thing for you." In hindsight, I would say, he wanted to make me self-doubt my decisions and confuse me, so this was a put down. After I had learned about covert narcissism, it was hard to believe how very well this person followed the pattern and displayed so many red flags.
That is a really good example NoOrdinaryOne of a subtle putdown. In retrospect you can always tell because the comment causes you to doubt yourself and what you are doing. Being able to recognize and identify the traits and these people is really important to protect ourselves. Someone else mentioned that it can be lonely when we start to phase toxic people out of our lives but is it better to be with someone that is subversive or alone? I *now* will choose alone - it just isn't worth it. Wait to find the *good* people out there. Thanks for the comment NoOrdinaryOne! -Duane
Or 'See for yourself'
*_Idk if my mom is narcissistic, but she points out what’s wrong with me.. I would call it subtle put downs.. Today after leaving her house I cried when I got home bcuz I’ve had enough!!_*
*_& I can’t tell her anything bcuz she’ll say I’m crazy & wrong about my accusation.. So I stay quiet!! & what sucks is she says her mom does the same thing.._*
*_LOL I think it’s gotta be a cycle!! My roomate is the only person that I can console about this ATM so I won’t go crazy bcuz I have yet to find a therapist to console lol I gotta get to it ASAP!!_*
*_But she can take very hurtful digs without being super mean.. I left her house almost shaking tonight.. I gave her subtle digs back & she didn’t like it too good, but I felt like it didn’t work.._*
*_It just made it worse.. Like it was just going to get uglier.. Crazy how everything was so subtle & we were like okay & kissed each other goodbye like usual but I was shaking inside!!_*
*_Lol y’all know what I mean?? Oooooohhhh!!!! Yeah sorry!! I’m only on here to find out how to handle her better bcuz I don’t think reciprocating her actions helped any better!!_*
*_& Afterward I ended up killing her with kindness but it was so hard!! She gives me this look like she’s waiting for me to react & I don’t want to give her that power!!_*
*_Sadly I have before in the past.. I felt like I was gonna crack at any sec but I made it to my car before bursting out crying!!_*
*_But I know exactly why she does it bcuz she tells me her mom does it to her & she is way worse!! I believe she is just cycling it back to me from what her mother does to her!!_*
*_It’s a learned behavior!! & I want to break it bcuz when I have kids I do not want to be like her!!! Nooooo!!!_*
Thank you for this video and thank you for this channel. I was struggling with this for a long time without even knowing it. I was trying to think when has my narcisst been critical or put me down and I couldn't think of that many. Having just watched this, a lot of put downs I have realized came in the form of disinterest when I was doing well at something, or they would bring the conversation back on to themselves and also they would say well that's good but now you should focus on this. He is now doing these things with my daughter and I can see it clear as day. But thank you for pointing this out as something that they do, it's another piece to the puzzle for me. X
You clearly care so much about your kids. I'm a female with a narcissistic ex-partner (male). It restores my faith in men, generally, to hear your story about the years of craziness you've lived through. Before discovering your channel, I didn't realize there were men who really cared about anyone except themselves, especially their kids. So, for me, it's important to hear your story. You're a good man.
Omg. thank you Duane is really conforting first one important thing you said it will get better and what i found out that helps tremendously is that im noy alone is this awful situation of dealing with this person but there are many more that know the harship we gotta deal with everyday. Thank you. For give us hope and help.
You know Jacqueline the first major victor we have is validation and understanding of what we are dealing with. Prior to that I’m sure you thought you were going crazy and questioning EVERYTHING in your life (because I know I sure did). The next is realizing that you’re not alone and other people *have gone through* the same thing and have survived it. Sure it’s not easy but there absolutely is hope that you get break free from the chaos and have a good life even if these wonderful “human beings” are still stuck in your life because of children. It will get better - just give yourself the time and space to start to heal from this. It took me over 2 1/2 years to really start healing from this. -Duane
Very helpful on a lot of levels. Thank you.
People should not need their parents affirmations when they are older. They have more support from many people then. Don't take anything personally from a narcissist. They are not mentally/emotionally healthy. They may compete also. Just be the model...no need to try to influence. No panic, just keep going. Stay connected with God who can help/bless/guide.
You are so great about helping your kids to look to the future with "can do" attitude. A child living with a Narc is a death sentence to self confidence.
God that is so true SureHowDoYouKnow and I'm seeing that A LOT with my oldest - he's really struggling with all of this and it's *very* difficult for him to realize he is worth so much more than what he's being "given". This is to include from his mother AND the girl that he likes...
Thank you for your videos. They are so helpful in my relationship with the covert narctin my life.
You’re very welcome Peggy and welcome to the channel. Hopefully each day you can see the improvements you are making in your healing. I hope that you are starting to have *hope* for your future - it really makes a huge difference when you start to believe there is even the possibility of a positive future filled with love and peace instead of the pain! -Duane
Again thank you Dwane for the advice suggestion and support. yes it does drives me crazy and brakes my heart when my little one has to go with his dad specially on saturdays cause is more hours and i feel a bad mom but i obviously can be there for him when he goes to his house.
Watch for those micro expressions (smirks) to spot the covert narcissist.
I’m just beginning to see my sister is a covert narcissist. She done this to me and now she’s starting to do it to my kids. She’s so sly, it’s almost scary!
Yeah it really is Mossy Oak Mom! Its generally so subtle that its hard to make out. Once you start to really see it - it is pretty annoying... Hope you are able steer clear of it and keep your kids away from her!
It's not personal; they just can't stand other people being successful or happy. If you are doing well then it triggers their negative self image. When a narcissist puts you down, it means your success is a threat to them. See it as a compliment.
Exactly Charl... AND do not go out of your way to let them know you are successful OR happy! I made that mistake a few times...
yeah my mom said (after I told her I loved her on her birthday) "I love you too, MOST of the time" left me feeling like .. what the hell was that? that's performance based as they all are as they don't really LOVE anyone but themselves. so when you PERFORM well enough to please them they love you (not really they are just nicer to you for a while) and when you disappoint them they don't which is most of time .. so actually she lied .. she only loves me (her kind of love) once in a while. then another time I told her I loved her she said "I love you too, REMEMBER you're the one I wanted" .. again I was like huh? BE AWARE WHEN THEY ALWAYS HAVE TO ADD SOMETHING YOU ARE MOST LIKELY DEALING WITH A NARC! They can't just say "I love you too" and give you a sincere HUG and SMILE! It always comes back around to be ABOUT THEM somehow some way!!! or at least it leaves you feeling like "what was that"?? :( I have only one brother (the golden child) and he was supposedly (I doubt that) an accident because then my dad HAD to marry her .. get it? it was the 50's so that kind of thinking was still around. but she went off the pill and TRICKED my dad into having me .. so I'm THE ONE she wanted. yeah ok. really she just wanted another slave and also she keeps reminding me lately that SHE (unlike all the rest of the dummies she knows and is related to) PLANNED FOR HER FUTURE! mostly talked about in the sense of money (but my dad was the one that went to work and made a pension she takes credit for) but I think having kids is another way the narc plans for their future .. so when they are old they have someone to TAKE CARE OF THEM. if they groom them properly. so now that I know all about this narc stuff it's easier to deal with .. accepting the fact that narcs don't love anyone was hard at first I mean your parents are the ones above all that are supposed to really LOVE you .. but when you realize that you got parents that abused and used and neglected you your whole life it's really hard at first but after a while you realize and accept the truth about it (not that they get a pass but it's for your own good) that they can't love (so in a way it's not their fault .. it is but it isn't worth always blaming them for the way they are) they aren't normal and never will be it's easier because then you don't EXPECT things to be normal (as they never have been but the desire always has) and you LEARN to play the game if you have to stay in contact or some can simply go no contact which is the easiest of all.
I asked my mom what do u like about me? She said that's not fair to me ??? What???
I agree. Covert narcissist are highly envious of the spot light is not on them. They will insert something about themselves and call it an example of what they experienced. It's all BS and purposeful. They are trying to gain narcassistic supply from your negative reaction. They will play the victim and accuse the real victim for reacting to their own reactive abu$ive behavior towards you. Then they will either stonewall you , and you end up apologizing for their behavior, or they act like nothing happened and carry on with a conversation. I agree with going no Contact. You have to go quietly and stratigicaly escape from Coverts ( according to Ross Rosenberg) they are highly dangerous calculating because they do not fully discard their supply. Coverts are prone to seeking high revenge tactics on their targets (compared to overts and malignants) Coverts also harbor silent internal rage , and when they receive a narcassistic injury they will unleashed that onto their victims who caused the injury. Covert narcassist are highly calculating, manipulative, and pure evil. Especially if they are in your family.
My Narc mother is constantly taking "LITTLE JABS" at me, ie giving me "backhanded compliments" about EVERY THING!!!!!!
My physical appearance and character, mistakes or failures, successes or opportunities, friendships and love lives...
What are your WORST examples or memories of thwaw?
Too many to point out here!
They would sabotage anything good you would do with your child. They would attempt to take away or block anything good the two of you would share. They try to turn your child against you. Sad how the courts don't understand this. The child is a pawn. Maybe it is because they are jealous.
Reminds me of my mother. I’ve cultivated the idea that my daughter should go to community college first because we can’t afford all 4 years of university. My mom’s response (my mom who never paid for me to go to college, and who won’t pay for my daughter) starts telling my daughter that she’ll be a loser if she goes to community college. Mind you, I went to community college and got into a top ranked university and graduated with a great degree.
Yep my narc dad went to expensive nice college and when my son time to go narc paw paw says he can go to community college. Of course. No one can outshine him
Oh I have a good one for you I’ve been a stay-at-home mom for ever when ever I would try to use my real estate license that has been active for 15 years he would do very subtle little things that would sabotage my efforts. In the last year I not only got my certification to teach fitness but I’ve also been doing my real estate and the negativity and clear evidence that it is a threat to him is overwhelming! I’ll never forget the first showing that I had when I Started doing my real estate again he turned to me and says so are you nervous???? not in a supportive way in a sinister way!!
Ugh, yeah that sounds about right. The don’t want you to succeed with anything. So first congratulations on getting your license back and starting to work and the certification to teach fitness! Good for you! I’m sure you feel, as I often felt, you’re been successful *in spite of* their “support”. -Duane
thank you surviving dad i am a durviving mother and im trully so desperate i just cry many timez and feel so tired and discourage cause dealing with my sons narc dad. keep givinv us advice thanks again.
Definitely check out the bit.ly/MindsetForNarcRecovery playlist because I think it will really help you. The video on Hybrid No Contact is REALLY important because it gives you a framework for dealing with a narcissistic ex especially when you are supposed to interact and communicate with them because of the kids. If you get a chance I’d also recommend the Tuesday or Saturday livestreams - there is a super community of people who are regulars and they are very welcoming to new people. Just check out one of the replays to see if it is something you’d be interested in.
Bottom line though Jacqueline this does get better. You are never going to get your ex to change but you will change the way you interact and respond and that will make things A LOT better. Just keep sticking with it - the thing is the narc goal is to get you to break. They have tremendous perseverance and just don’t seem to ever give up (think Terminator) but once you start to regain your own personal power their effectiveness really diminishes. -Duane
wow ! thanks again for another great vid ! ;)
You are welcome Sharon and thank you for the feedback! -Duane
Duane, perhaps, part of the reason that your son doesn't do what you suggest, is precisely that they come from you as a father (I see this too...my son is 14 now) Now, I find it more effective to show ideas to start him off, ...then ask him how he got on a couple of days later. Just encouraging him to be creative, and saying it's valid, not for the results , but for the doing. Nex will always cut down creative people because they are all-pervasive pathological jealous. For your channel, also, I see your success as the doing, the quality of the content, not the stats and results. The results are in your well being and understanding and connection and sharing, and in our interactions, not in your stats and speed of growth. The Narcs projections are erroneous, off target, this is the nature of their grandiosity. They feel taller by standing on others. We must not let our children grow up with their self definition as projected by a Narc. 'Our job is not done' - absolutely, it is an ongoing healthy validation process that we can offer our kids. Perhaps we can share the idea that they do not have to 'attach' their wellbeing to the opinions of others, but rather to what they feel. Yesterday, I said to my son : ' Some people lift you up, and some people put you down. Which makes you feel better ?' ...he reacted a few minutes later by giving his opinion. Trust that they really do understand a lot more than we might give them credit for, and if we choose the moment to share an idea when they are present and listening, they will take it onboard. I find that if I ask him every couple of days : 'So, how are you feeling ?' , and give him time to respond, or not, that after a while he starts to take into account how he feels, and how what he is doing makes other people feel. I suppose this is cultivating empathy towards himself, as well as towards others, and learning to be present.
That's really great advice Robert about asking him how he is feeling. I think that is a good way of brining him in the moment and also helping him to *see* what is going on between the two different environments. I also agree a lot of it has to do with just the parent role and that I'm his dad so my thoughts and opinions are filtered through that lens. As I was reading through your comment I forgot that I used the channel as a example in this video but you are very correct. The growth may not be "fast" but it is good and the feedback has been wonderful and the recurring message that the videos are helping people is really the main point. I also feel very proud of what I've put out there so I hope I didn't loose that point in my comments. -Duane
But Duane...why look for fast growth ? Who cares ? I think more and more people will find your content and learn from it....in a couple of months you'll need a secretary :) ....have you taken a 30 min walk every morning as suggested ? hmmmm.
LOL I think I need a secretary NOW I'm swamped. No unfortunately I haven't been able too plus I'm fighting this cold - I do those live streams and then crash! But I have been focusing on breathing and that has been very helpful.
I saw this too. People don't like unasked for advice. He comes off a little controlling and this video came off as a way to slag off his ex. With his son, he needs to ask what his son wants and stop making the "suggestions". The son may just want to be left alone to figure things out for himself.
I know exactly what you are talking about. This was really helpful! Thank you!
Hi Therese and welcome to the channel! I'm glad the video was helpful. It's sad how it's helpful to know you're not alone but at the same time unfortunate that other people are going through this same thing. -Duane
Dad Surviving Divorce For sure! I have been going through hell in many ways, starting in my childhood. I am blessed to have found unconditional love as an adult and to be able to pass it on to my kids. Keep up your good work!
That is awesome that you've found that. I finally found that myself and after going through the trauma of wrapping my head around it - because sadly to say it really did freak me out - it has been wonderful. -Duane
Dad Surviving Divorce The hardest thing for me right know is to accept the childhood I had and live with the ongoing smearing campaign whilst keeping up appearances towards my children and give them all the love and care they need.
Therese the balancing act on this is *really* hard to do. Plus dealing with the reality of HOW we got here and then to see our children going through the same thing we went through as kids ourselves. Just keep focusing on them and the improvements really help.
wow so far this is my fave video watched it 3 times
I remember remodeling a house ( I’m a contractor) my Narc and I bought (with my money) and as I’m working she would always point out small mistakes or inconsistencies. She would walk around looking for them, although she never helped out or worked on any of the projects...
You know Wayne I can relate to that - mine would do very similar things - walk around and point out everything wrong even in other people's homes. I remember making excuses saying, "She's just nervous she doesn't mean anything by it." Great example of subtle putdowns - and I'm sure if you ever questioned her on it she would she was just being helpful to make sure you caught those small mistakes... -Duane
Why are you attracted to such
A loser.
what i am hearing here is passive-aggression. if i am wrong, please let correct me. this form of abuse is really hard to pick out. i had a cerebral covert narc who used this alot and i had no clue. i believe yours was cerebral covert also, duane. i had him over the other day. it was a nice visit. i love to journal all the narc things he does. things i didn't pick out before in the relationship. things other people down the road might come up with so i can know to stay away.
when my narc ex was leaving, he said "we had a good time, KIND OF." putting the "kind of" part in there made me immediately start thinking our good time had some negativity when it did not. they say nice things then add in some garbage. i had a bad gut reaction when he said this. i am thrilled to notice these gut reactions. this is something i have to work on to be healthy. they lift you, then drop you. makes you question yourself and causes confusion. brings down your confidence.
did your son get told by the narc that he is a good writer, BUT it is such a competitive field. he would have to be really special to get anywhere? see the positivity, then the negativity? i have a few more examples that were used on me. i love you, but....... it was nice watching the movie together. we didn't even have a fight. you did a good job, but you took way too long. he went to trim the bushes. i was glad. he took off 3 foot of the greenery from the bottom. looked like suckers on a stick. i was fuming. said he would grocery shop with me. the first aisle, he took off and sat in the car. i had to go look around for him. took me on a nice atv ride, then scared me because he went way too fast. a deer ran out from the woods. he knows i hate to go fast.
up and down. hidden negativity in with the positive. this is not good. passive aggressive is abuse. covert abuse.
Those are all really good examples of this type of abuse Mary. What I think you'll also notice is that as time goes on they become less covert and more obvious but by that time we've been conditioned to the behavior so we don't notice because it feels normal. It's a really strange balance because there are times that it is normal and/or good for a parent to say things like "you're a good writing but it's a competitive field" but there is a subtle difference - there is a way to say it and be constructive and a way to be destructive. I can also tell you that IF we say anything that the ex can turn into a negative they absolutely will. There have been times parent teacher meetings where someone will be said taken out of context of something I've said to validate her smear campaign of me. It has taken me years to worth through all of that and repair the damage that the ex has done but basically it's her own actions that are helping. I really just hope my son starts to understand this is her just being emotionally abusive to him and can take away some of the power she has over his emotions. -Duane
***** may i suggest something you already know, duane, but it is hard to remember when you are in the thick of it. step back and think logically not emotionally. the narc abuse is so much clearer with a logical mindset. i say this to tell your dear son. sometimes i have to look back at what the narc said when he is gone. bingo. word salads, circular conversations, passive-aggressive, minimizing, etc. see ya!
I have to be really careful about that - he knows but he's still not ready for me to push to much on this. We had a conversation earlier today about who was "smarter" - something his mother had said to him about people who were smarter than others with the implication being that she was smarter than me (it was passive aggressive). Like a moron I asked him who he thought was smarter and he immediately went into the mode that we were the same. It's actually really weird to watch. So we have conversations but I'm really careful what I do say to him.
chemtrailmary yep
Wow, the mother cutting down his ideas is classic. Well done on breaking free. I had a life long connection to a covert narciccist. When My mother commented to her on how well I did something she said "Nice" but she didn't know I saw her face as she said that. She was cringing. Like it hurts her to see me doing well.
Hi Marie-Louise and welcome to the channel! Yeah that is a pretty good example of being able to actually “see” the reaction of a narcissist. It’s like, “How dare you outshine anything I’m doing”. Very complicated people. The hard part is watching the kids go through it and then burry it and push it out of their minds like it never happened. I understand because they *need* to love and want their mom to love them. Thanks for the comment Marie-Louise! -Duane
Wow, thank you for the response. I can relate even though I don't have kids it upsets me to watch this person cleverly cause self-doubt to members of my family. That is my big problem right now. They can't even see what she is doing to them and I see a look of confusion coming over their face. I just want to expose this person and warn everyone.
It is really tough ESPECIALLY when you can see what is going on while everyone else is blinded. The other problem is NORMALLY no one is really going to believe you. Sometimes it is hard to be able to see through these people because when you watch friends and loved ones fall under their spell it is just really difficult to watch. The only thing you can *try* to do is point things out but once someone starts to fall for their illusion there really isn’t much more you can do. But I COMPLETELY understand what you’re saying. I went through that phase the first couple of years in my situation where I wanted her exposed and held accountable. Now I just want my life to be as chaos (and narc) free as possible. -Duane
Thank you for your understanding. It actually helps me to hear that you at first wanted to expose and that now you just want to move on and be as narc free as possible. Its really been getting to me these past three weeks since I found out about covert narcissism. I've known for a long time but it is just really in my face now. But when you said these words it impinged, "I just need to get on with my life" and have a less contact as possible like Weddings and Funerals. So thank you for making me aware that I can move on. All the best and thank you for doing what you are doing to educate us. Knowledge of it really helps.
Not narcissism-related, but I’m interested in writing myself, and would love to know more about some of the project ideas you suggested to your son. The blog, for instance. What sort of blog was it-a forum for his fiction stories, or did he mainly write nonfiction about things that interested him? And if you don’t mind my asking, what is his disability? I ask because I’m in a wheelchair myself.
It's hard to do difficult things with discouraging people around.
I have a great example of this I'm living with a narcissist covert narcissist I lived for 13 months I paid all the bills every dime I made I spent either on bus living or directly on her nothing on my own personal effects so I'm an electrician and I got this great side work so I had to work on Sundays for a few weeks and I was so excited I was going to make all this money to spend on her and us so I texted her Center photos and so happy and I thought that she would be proud of meme earning all this extra money and her response was good for you that said it all
"taking the shine off of an idea that may be good."
We are all works-in-progress, and those who use that against us are clearly not "on our side", but they are trying to undermine our progress forward each step of the way by chipping away at it little-by-little. Keep up what you're doing with your son...take the higher road w/ his mother whenever you can, which will ultimately earn your son's respect. Keep giving him tools to use to discern who is really on his team and who is not (without always making the argument that it is his mother who is actually probably his worst enemy). Help him gather a collection of "come backs", if you will, for any nay-sayers in his life. For example "Oh, well, that's not up to my standard so I can't even look at it" he can say "As your son, I would appreciate your unconditional support by looking at it anyway and trying to find things you APPRECIATE about it, rather than always pointing out every error. Sometimes us children just want our parents to acknowledge our hard work."
These little "comebacks" will help him learn how to set boundaries with others in his life as well. His mother is teaching him that he should always be second fiddle to women in his life. Instead, he should be getting the message that all relationships are an equal partnership of give and take and mutual respect and love. Just as we would never tell our loved one "Hey, that outfit makes your butt look fat", even if we can convince ourselves that we are "helping" them, we should (unless the outfit is legitimately WAY too inappropriately clinging to their behind...and even then you'd want to couch it very delicately) point out that we like the color choice. That is what you do for people you love and respect when you want to be sensitive to their feelings.
Excellent advice Me From Maine and I really appreciate the suggestions. It is still going to take him some time to realize that his mother is truly his enemy but he just isn't really to see it yet. There are days and moments where he gets it and he understands it but it is also something that he just doesn't want to believe. I know he is going to have to go through more pain and hurt before he can truly start to see through the fog. Welcome to the channel and thank you for the comment! I really liked your *comebacks*! -Duane
It's hard even as adults to admit to ourselves that a loved one never really loved us. That's a huge blow to our sense of security. I'd say that so long as he is starting to put some pieces together that his mother is dysfunctional (at best) in her ability to demonstrate love to him, then he will at least on some level be a bit more protected by it for now.
Very true Me and I think you're right - my main hope is that he will see these patterns and be able to detect them in his future relationships. Unfortunately he is talking very similar to the way I was at his age when primed me for a false relationship because I was looking for that illusion so when the love bombing occurred I wanted it so badly (even though I knew something was wrong I just wouldn't allow myself to see it). -Duane
I am wondering if there are any good books he could read? I have enjoyed Toxic In-Laws but that wouldn't quite apply even though it does talk about different tricks toxic folks use...good luck helping him find a better path :)
Hmm that is an *excellent* idea Me - there is a relationship book that I recommend to people that I think would be good - I have then for the *long* period this week so I'll have to talk to him about it. -Duane
Like Constructive CRITICISM! Which makes you think they have YOUR BEST INTEREST AT HEART! I'VE BEEN DEALING WITH THIS FOR YEARS, NEVER KNEW THIS IS WHAT WAS HAPPENING AND NOW THAT I HAVE A CHILD I'VE REALIZED MY FAMILY DOING IT TO MY CHILD SO I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GO NO CONTACT, VERY DIFFICULT
Yeah TT I felt for that trap *many times*. It would always be that underhanded compliment or criticism - just enough to break you down but not enough to be completely obvious what they were doing. And if you questioned them on it all hell breaks loose. -Duane
Was she setting him up to be The Golden Child, ya think? I can relate so much to this. When I earned my Master's Degree, my narcs stated things like they had no idea that I was even working on one, or just ignored it, etc.
Good question Grace - I think he had been for a really long time but I think that is starting to change. I think that has been difficult for him too because he was used to being the focus of everything before. I think the change has also enabled or encouraged his sisters to pick on him now and his mother doesn't do anything to stop it. It makes it complicated when they transition here because I have to get them stop. -Duane
Narcs are jealous . They want you to fail. If you expect a compliment or words of encouragement, or admiration
Will never happen. They have
A warped mind and will only
Try to hurt you by ignoring
You and putting down your
Accomplishments. They are
Reptiles/roaches.
Thank you so much
👍🏻
Yes! They will destroy or take over anything that makes you happy!
Oh yeah!!! I know exactly what you are talking about!!!
Absolutely Ashely those subtle putdowns are like daggers in our hearts and spirits. It may take a while to escape, or to find the courage to, but when we do our lives starts to come back. -Duane
make an outline please
How long were you with your ex? And how long into the relationship did you start to notice the narcassism? It can take years, or weeks to realise.
Ugh Kay G I almost hate to answer this question but I will. We met in Aug of 1989, were married in Apr of 1990, I filed for separation in Aug of 2011 and the divorce was final (I changed from separation to divorce) in Jun of 2012. There had always been "problems" but I didn't recognize or see it really until the summer of 2010 everything really came to a head in May 2011 and I was done by Aug. It still took me another two/three years to learn about narcissism and it wasn't until then that I really had some closure on my entire marriage and relationship. So it took *years* for me to realize - I guess technically it was decades. I hope that answers your question. -Duane
Dad Surviving Divorce wow so it took as long as three years for it to sink in for you that's a long time to feel this horrendous way bit worrying seeing as i m still trying to come to grasp with it all my self
Coverts come off as kind and humble, which makes it difficult to spot them right away. Rest assured, that almost always overts expose them for who they are
Can u get over the hump that causes the damage & how ? I use to do some things I don't do anymore I'm disabled mental limitations vary creative arts craft's creative problem solver no calculate
I'm beginning to understand the game My narcissist plays with me it has had devastating effects on my relationship with my x boyfriend but he absolutely refuses to Let Her Go and seek help for himself so I had no choice but to leave him
I love your videos 😍. Kudos from Alaska. Ok I would love to see a video on gay narcissistic people without children. Because my partner and I don’t have children. Most videos on this subject has marriage men/ women and children. Can you talk to Narcissistic people and give them ultimatums ??? Meet in the middle? Tell them or else you will do a tell all about them? And their actions to everyone?
Wow I went to some churches like that 😢
Interestingly, most focus has been on overt narcs that we overlook there are many if not more coverts out there. It's like who do you trust?
Yeah exactly - and you can start to drive yourself crazy thinking that EVERYONE is a narcissist...
Yes. Big time. So typical of them.
Unfortunately! Well - maybe since it is predictable it helps us fight each other to finally get some closure and understanding. When we are in a vacuum it is worse because it just doesn't make any sense. -Duane
Here's an example. She was so poor at responding to communication. She would ignore some phone calls or text messages. Or, she would cut a phone call short by saying, "Hey, I have to go, but I'll call you right back", but never would. She is 17 years younger than me. She said my desire for her to change her responsiveness to communication must be a "generational" thing. Like others have said: death by 1,000 tiny cuts.
Sometimes I wonder if my manager is covert or if I am overreacting. He has said things such as"did the bleach get to your brain(because a co worker didn't understand something). Also said to another co-worker that "his dreads were pulled to tight because he didn't understand something). One more incident is when he tripped over a small cord of a tiny heater that a co-worker uses when its cold that "he hopes it breaks"
In addition, I have never seen him laugh out loud. I mean really laugh. Maybe smirk, smile, and a haha. Then a customer asked questions about a printer, and he said "I already answered her question"
Please, please don't comeback to the narc. I did, after many years, thinking age would have change things....but....it was wost, and it didn't help that I was aging too and less resilient......Yes; I went away again...
Who would say that to their child? She just didn't want to take the time to see where he was coming from. It's sad for him, but hopefully in a careful way, you can help your children know that her behaviour isn't normal, healthy, and only something people are really identifying now in the past few years.
Hi Ali and welcome to the channel! Well, a suspected narcissist who can't think about how their words and actions impact even there own children would say that. Ali he was doing pretty good and then right after his 18th birthday he's taken a back slide - hopefully it is just the stress of becoming an adult, graduating high school and signing up for college. We have a few more days before the graduation is complete so hopefully things will start going the right direction shortly after that. It's just really hard, especially with a covert narcissistic, because they drift into the normal and not normal behaviors so it's *much harder* to detect. -Duane
Dad Surviving Divorce well even if your son has some difficulties progressing for a while, I would probably say - don't stress and just roll with it. He's undergone abuse from the time he was a baby really - from the woman that is supposed to love him unconditionally. I sound like a Nazi saying this - but my heart pains to know all the horrors children suffer - and so I believe in sterilization until a person can be tested to see if they're worthy of the privilege. You're the only sane support and comfort you son can have. So his experiences may surface differently.
These are one of the biggest give aways to me. They won't slip up anywhere else but if they demonstrate this, even if it's a false red flag on my end, if I pick up on like 3 of them i'm done. gtfo no second chance . onward and upward. no more surrounding ourselves with toxic people who ruin the quality of our naturally happy live-styles.
Once you left, she needed ppl to get supply from. Sadly they trash their own children or make them weak victims they can always save.
I have another great example she knew that I was a little self-conscious about my my belly being a little round so she would mention it everyday so one trick she had was she went out and bought me a shirt that was like two sizes too small a dress shirt and every week she would have me put this thing on and obviously I wouldn't be able to button it so she would nag me about going to the gym and get rid of that belly and then she would triangulate about oh so and so is in great shape why can't you be like him I wish you were like him you're not trying hard enough and she made me believe that someday I was going to fit into this medium shirt when I was in extra large crazy
These people are very strange and stalkers
I have some experience in dealing with this kind of thing... Some important points to make-
1) Its a regular pattern, trying to pin all sorts of negative ideas about you which are disconnected, i.e calling you an alcoholic, then changing the subject to claim you're no good with people, then changing again to claim you're arn't clean... all of these subjects have nothing to do with each other, so it shows they're likely only trying to put you down to feel good (linked to the second point). This is the result of projective identification, they've created a false image of you.
2) The narc goes through highs when belittling others, to downs when they're disproven. This also gets worse with time. Using my examples from the previous point, I could make reasoned arguments to disprove them, or involve someone else in the conversation to back me up that I don't drink a lot, am pretty good with people, and show them around the house to see how tidy it is. The narc would enrage. All that supply has been denied and they are left feeling worse than when they started. This can be pretty easy to spot as the narc tries to put your down and smiles, then is refuted and looks distressed. It really is that simple.
3) Gaslighting will be used to try and cover up the narc's true goal in all this. Keep a mental pattern of their behaviour to ascertain if they are just looking to attack for self-gratification, don't fall for their attempts to evade criticism. Its the only game they have and they won't stop playing for anything.
Excellent points Novo!
@@DSD Thank you :D
I appreciate you posting that - great information!
@@DSD I learnt to explain the Narcissist's behaviour in clear logical terms, which may not quite work on them as they live in a land of lies and denial, but it certainly helps us to understand them and be less affected. Feel free to use any info I post in a video!
Don't beat yourself up hindsight is 20/20 that's why they say live and learn , all is fair in Love and War, fool me once shame on you shame me twice shame on me
I was her favourite person so she always praised me! The FP of a Borderline must be a nightmare for them!! They never ever forget their FP!
It's a stupid idea, but she doesn't mind spending the money you make, even if it is not a lot at this point.
My mum was an expert at it..No wonder I started dating controlling women and would snub or muck around nice women lol..
SHOWY NARCS DO IT TOO
#NarcdMeToo
i cant stand it. you have very useful information but by the time you are using pronouns at the end of one thought, i don't know what you are talking about.
Again Julie thank you for the feedback! -Duane
That's a covert proud dad right there...👍👍👍....j/k ...another great video...thank you
That's pretty funny Rick! Thanks for the comment! 😜-Duane